Why We Keep LOSING Money?
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- Опубліковано 30 тра 2024
- Making money in CNC Machining can be difficult. When a CNC Machine sits or is ran inefficiently… It can drown your profits. Barry breaks down some of the things in a machine shop that can absolutely KILL efficiency. He tells how to correct these shortcomings through teamwork and self awareness in your processes.
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#CNC #Machining #Machinist - Наука та технологія
What is bad is when the workers know how bad things are efficiency wise and know what changes need to be made but the boss won’t make the changes and isn’t interested to listen to the problems.
Know the feeling
Currently trying to change jobs because of this
I found an old compact flash card. it came from a shop where the owner refused to switch to USB and insisted that his machines didn't have rs232. dude bought new machines and had them fitted with older fanuc controls .
@@wannabecarguy NGL, that really shots it down.
Guy is basically embracing self restriction and indirectly inefficiency.
That's exactly how it is in our shop too..
The boss is like "we've been doing this for 40 years"
yep, that's the problem, you've done the same process for 40 years, no wonder why we're struggling is what I'm thinking.
*Some* issues with the shop I'm at (family owned, approx 50 employees):
- There is no inventory control. At all. I could put a tray of inserts in my pocket and walk out the door.
- Often you have to stop your current job to work on another job for another customer the boss think is more important - which increases the time it takes to do both jobs as now I have to re-align the previous part from mid-process...
- I get told to use 30 y/o tooling that hasn't been used the last decade when asking for better tools.
- Have to go scavenge for drills and end mills at other workstations. Not to mention about taps.
- Only some of the workstations have their own tooling, but then - those who don't come to borrow from those who have..
- Management buys in just the minimum of tooling that's dirt cheap and expects superior quality.
- Material quality is subpar, which leads to me needing to remove long chips between each cycle so the tool doesn't get clogged and breaks.. ex: buys S355J2 when we have used Ovako280 before which performs better with much better chip performance.
- Managment are often more in the workshop hanging over my shoulder than inside their offices. Not just me, everybody - and I see a general high stress level in the workshop because of it.
- Management lacks communication and yells at us for not being able to read their minds - I see a lot of people just not giving a damn or being careless with what they do because they're gonna get yelled at, no matter if they do things right..
If I try to hint at any of this I get yelled at too.
I so relate to this.
Imagine you have a rush job, and the tools aren't ordered ahead of time. The end mills you do have were ordered by non machinist who barely know what you need, and they're all jangling together new and old, unsorted in plastic bins. Also you're actually looking for an end mill to use in a manual lathe, because somehow all the boring bars are missing. Also the lathe is the only metric thing in the shop and it's wired backwards. The manual mill has so many chips under it that after a full day of use it'll have walked it self 4 feet away from where you started. The stock that was ordered for you is nearly the exact size of the part because the people spending the money don't understand workholding. Then management starts telling you because its a smaller job, you should make some of the features on a belt sander instead of a mill. They don't give you enough tool holders to keep common tools set up, but they complain when not enough spindles are running.
All of these are real things that happened to me.
Sometimes it gets to the point where you have to beg to fix things even if you have to pay with your own time and money. Your sanity becomes more important than money or getting credit for things improving. Or you just quit. I did both.
Too many shops try to compete on nothing but being the cheapest shop around. You can make money on quality or speed. But to do that you need to make an organized shop.
"The stock that was ordered for you is nearly the exact size of the part because the people spending the money don't understand workholding." This... I deal with this every day. I keep asking for oversizsed stock so that I could machine all edges at once. But they ignore me and just buy exact size, and i have to do change overs...
Sir, is this supposed ro be dark poetry, its like a horror story...
The last three companies I worked for all said “We want to organize”.
I have went through the ISO certification process.
These shops were all a HOT MESS!
33 years experience, and yet the old timers are NEVER interested in getting up to date!
I made a 300% time reduction on a 5,000 pc job and was ACTUALLY criticized.
In the end I’m on the market again looking for work.
That certainly happens more often than it should. Sometimes, it can take a couple years to start convincing people to try new things. Thankfully I have usually been in charge of my departments and had the full support of my immediate manager or director. I remember once I had maintenance run to my boss in a panic because "Barry is writing DANGEROUS programs that are going to DESTROY the machines. The chips are actually knocking the paint off and marring the glass!" My director just laughed at them.
@@barrysetzer I had an “operator” tell the shop supervisor that my set up was not safe.
I told the Supervisor to let him set up machines and left that company on the spot.
@@barrysetzer have you guys ever considered, dare I say it, an American rescue plan, like “bar. Rescue” going to shops to help work out some of these problems where inefficiencies won’t be dealt with normally. Hell make a TV show I’d watch it😂 titled “ Machine shop disaster makeovers “ - bringing jobs back to America
Yes, we have thought about that. In fact, before I came to Titans, that was kinda my plan. To just start consulting, and helping companies identify stupidity. But now, I can do better than that, because helping one company become more efficient is good. But helping every company on EARTH that is willing to LISTEN is far better.
@@barrysetzer ones that are willing to listen is the key phrase there! I guess the ones that aren’t will sink eventually.
"Manager of the machine shop with no prior experience in machining."
The exact problem of so many companies throughout any industry - managment doesn't know the first thing about what they're supposed to manage, they just do the numbers.
Then there's also a number of workers who just don't care about organizing their work space.
I've worked for companies where those two conditions come together to form the perfect storm, where it's a miracle that anything gets done at all.
I'm dealing with that issue right now ESPECIALLY when it comes to tools. Unfortunately I'm the FNG and the only "machinist" other than the business owner and his son. I've only been doing this job since January of this year but I do have a mechanical background, I was a bomb tech in the Air Force. Part of my job at one point was running the tool room. Not being able to find tools is driving me crazy.
YES, searching for things is the biggest waste of time and energy, and is the easiest to solve usually.
Fuuuckkin new guuuy
my problem is we just dont have all the tools yet. We only started recently with machining so we dont have every tool i would like. So sometimes the you got to piss with the cock you have thing comes around and ill make it work. But i do agree that running around looking for tools is frustrating and shouldnt happen. That is why we try to keep all the tools in special places dedicated to those tools. So either the tools are at the machine/in the machine or they are in the dedicated storage for them. So the only way i can we looking for a tool is if someone is running that same tool in another machine, wich dosnt happen that often. But sometimes you got the oddball tool that you only have 1 of and someone else needed it as wel.
@@barrysetzer, information gold.
SMED is the way to go. Get everyone into it, huge changes in short time.
How very true! Another thing that is lacking in many shops is training. I've been to many places where I heard the mantra: "We don't have time for training. I learned everything on my own. We are too busy for training." But training makes us proficient, keeps our minds open to new possibilities and makes us dynamic thinkers. You guys at TITANS provide excellent training on all aspects of manufacturing, staring with how to stone mounting surfaces, fixturing, tooling, programming, measuring . . . the whole process.
Can't wait to see what you will come up next - maybe a video on the art of installing a new machine, and super tuning it for best performance.
Absolutely! I always think back to when I started in Solidworks, I spent 3 years fully dimensioning every line and arc, because I didn't know constraints existed. Had I been properly trained, it would have saved me a TON of time
This mindset can be applied to many businesses - large and small. I constantly seek for ways to improve operations.
I deal with that constantly, changeover and set up for an average new job is 30-45 minutes for the laser I run. I factor that into my production schedule, my quotes, my delivery estimates.
Then my boss comes along with some rush job he's just taken on and I need to "do it right away, like now". So now I'm rushing to set up for a job that I know literally nothing about, that we probably don't have a jig or fixture for, that we may or may not even have raw material for... Instead of finishing the job I was working on I'd end up burning up half a day trying to appease someone who just didn't give a damn about anything besides getting "his" job out on time.
Eventually I just started saying no, explaining what I needed from him and the rest of the crew and what I needed to accomplish before tearing down my setup.
It's hard but sometimes you just need to say no to ridiculous requests and explain why, what we can do to move forward in the future.
I've been at my presant company for 35 years as a CNC pogramer, setter, operator, and tool maker. when I started, our currant boss was putting steel in the racks and sorting the overalls! and now he's running the show? An example of his wisdom for you,
"Oh lads when your changing the coolant and cleaning out the tank, ( a Huge 5 axis CNC) can you still run the machine". FFS! This is the shit we have to put up with daily. I could go on for on hours with his words of wisdom. Jesus it's enough to make you weep.
I found the worst scenario is a company owned by someone that has no experience in nothing but the numbers. At one sign shop, after moving in a new facility, we began to set up our machinery and workstations for efficient flow. When replacing a worn out shear the owner wanted it placed completely backwards from the "flow". Lost an hour in setting up the machine trying to explain the flow. Then he wanted the cnc router table put in the storage area over the offices. Here we go. To get materials up, had to extend overhead crane, fabricate sliding hand rail, power, etc. It became constant battle to keep machine level on ever changing plywood floor. One had to almost yell over the noise in the offices. ???? 🇺🇲🍺
I'm totally feeling you on this one.
At my workplace, us machinists have to do all the steps, from cutting raw material to programming, rigging and manufacturing. I'm spending so much time looking for tools and rigging components it's not even funny. On top of that, I can't function when things around me are messy, so I end up "wasting" a lot of time cleaning up after my co-workers: wiping off machine tables and workbenches, putting tools, holders and instruments back in their respective places etc. Also, everyone is hoarding tools at their work stations to save time, so I'm constantly running around asking to borrow stuff. It's exhausting.
My boss is always on my ass complaining about my setup times, claiming that these things "should only take twenty minutes". I just nod and go about my business. No use trying to explain what should be fairly obvious...
It is incredible to see how much literature you can find on efficiency for almost any industry and at the same time notice that very few companies see it as a means of saving or making more money. This video helps so much. Thanks.
Most of the time the shop owners are the shops problem. They really don't know how's the trade really works. I hope most of you understand this watch and learn. Nice video as usual titans.
Nothing is more frustrating than not being able to find the right tool because it is not in the right place! Excellent video brother. We can all benefit from taking the time to analyze how we spend our time.
It would be awesome if there actually was a right place for it. For me...
oh man, that last part hits hard. a shop i used to work at, they may hear what you say, but nothing was implemented. suggestions from using barcodes on setup sheets and for tool sheets to be able to pull the correct tools out of the tool matrix, different methods to make more parts in less time using pallet systems vs pneumatic vices, getting these rubber bristle brooms to help speed up the time to clean the machines. And gosh the last one, which was by far the worst, was how they had the machines set up. They knew it too, even when setting up, but they didnt care since it wouldve taken time to do it properly. They had them in arranged in a circle... all facing outwards and a good bit away from each other. often an operator would have to run 2 of them, and they sometimes had similar runtimes, so one ends as you are changing the other, but like a line of cars with blinkers, they were off by enough to make a difference. i was talked to by the shift supervisor when that happened to me, essentially telling me to be on top of the machines when they finished... go figure.
I also was curious, so i counted steps between machines, and how often they needed to be changed out. At the end of the shift, you would be walking an extra 2+ miles just walking between 2 machines...
oh well... anybody hiring in the central VA area? lol. Hope to see you guys at IMTS!
Thanks for the video Barry, it’s nice to see you took the time to read my comments from the last video and hit the nail on the head about what our issues were at our machine shop. This has given me a great base to find ways of improving our efficiency when machining.
No problem, Tom! Thanks for listening!
I’ve definitely worked in the shop from the beginning, and transformed shops over the years. It’s why I share about solutions that save shops time, not uncommon for shops to have 2hr setups when they aren’t tracking and still setting up their mills like it’s the 90s
This mind set is so applicable to really any job, working in a chem lab people with PhD's are sometimes so smart they do not ask dumb questions like how can I do this monotonous job faster which can help the company and hopefully yourself.
Some other things you can study include JIT, Kaizen, and Kanban. These are things we use in software engineering, but their roots come from manufacturing. I take tool control seriously since I was the tool petty officer in my shop in the Navy. I made foam cutouts for all the tools and the ones that didn't go in drawers I painted silhouettes on the wall. That way a quick look will reveal a missing tool. The Navy, especially Naval Aviation, takes tool control very seriously. A bird can be grounded if it's caught in time. Something catastrophic can happen if there is a loose tool inside an aircraft.
My dad was a machinist and I grew up in a machine shop. He worked mostly on the mill. He was known as the shop genius for setups. I remember he would study the bp for about an hour in his office, then he would go out and spend about 2 hours setting up the jig. Then he pointed me at the machine and I got to work :D. I would blow off the part, check tolerances, and put the next piece in the jig. At first he had cranks, then he had this gadget that spun the cranks automatically based on the feed rate you specify, then he got CNC. They had CNC lathes first, but eventually he got his CNC mill. My dad was always a forward looking person. He would most definitely embrace new ideas that would help him get better. He pushed the shop owners for years to embrace CNC, even though he didn't know anything about it at the time. He just knew it was the future. This was in the 80s.
Process improvement and job setup are 100% of the job, run time is what the machine is capable of.
I managed a couple hundred steel rule dies. I begged for the shop to serialize the dies by customer, to have the dies color coded by customer. Prep sheets kept for machine settings, database to benchmark against if an operator thought they had better setup or settings.
One of the hardest parts was getting guys to put blue die #4 back between blue die #3 and #5. Somehow it would end up in orange etc. I literally made it fool proof and the prevailing culture was to say screw it up.
You can lead a horse to water.
Preach brother Barry! The shop I worked at had horrible inventory control. I was the sucker assigned to do counts every 6 months. Machinists would walk away without checking out tools, tooling wasn't counted properly (some would count a pack of 10 inserts as 1 tool, not 10), others would throw tooling back in drawers wherever it landed, etc. To top it off, the company that was brought in to help improve efficiency actually marked the tooling labeling wrong in correlation to our system. Do you think they ever came back to correct the error? No..
I can't count on my fingers how many times a program had to be modified on the spot because we were out of the tooling the job required. Customs were a natural disaster of their own. Something that seemed so simple ate up the most valuable set-up time.
Great insight dude. Collecting raw data and making your case using statistics is a great way to open someones eyes! As a result, huge improvements were made 💪🏻
Thank you for the great advice. About to set up my first woodwork shop.
This really is invaluable advice. Thanks again. 🤠👍
hmm, yesterday i learned about the term "silent leave", today Barry explains why how those in charge should listen to their employees why something takes longer theny they expect...
now i feel like i am mentally on silent leave already and know why
When I worked at a machine shop, my shift, which was first shift, and second shift would challenge each other on who could get more parts per day out and that wound up changing the quota from 200 parts per day to 250 parts per day in a matter of a month because we all were figuring out together with a friendly competition on if we could raise the feeds of the machine up and how much we could raise it 🤙🏽
Set ups are profit builders when set up.
I time studied everything I did on the machines. 50% improvements came fast early on, faded over time, but I never stopped working to improve cycle-time and set-up. Makes the job more interesting, rewarding, and fun.
Yeah buddy! Its the game that we play with ourselves.
Awesome advise and makes a lot of sense. Efficiency is an art just like everything else is. Much love and gratitude.
Information GOLD!!!
Making a place way more efficient can make employees afraid they will lose their jobs. If we are 5x faster won’t we lay off 4 out of 5 people? The hardest part of implementing efficiency is having an honest plan for not laying people off, and communicating it up front.
We had those same problems in our shop years ago . I decided to take it on myself to fix this problem and while I was not successful shop wide I have gotten my dept completely organised and cut times greatly on everything.
Problem is finding the employee(s) capable of keeping inventory of fixtures and tooling. Hard enough to find someone to show up on time and press a button.
Pay more, if you are having thise problems, you are only getting the dregs
@@yerpright7548 we start between 20-30hr depending on experience. I think that's more than fair for ohio.
@@fordhoarder Since Im in NZ, I can't fairly comment on your local wage rates. Finding people who live and breathe to "make chips" and call themselves machinists or engineers with pride are becoming rare. Too many turn up because "its a job". So a clean innovative workshop isn't _their_ goal. Here in NZ employers are having the same problem, they put an ad up paying run of the mill wages in an industry filled with button pushers, you need machinists, which will probably require headhunting. Make sure your shop has its coolant clean etc(doesnt have to be expensive, think 55gal drum& domestic water filter~NZ$250)shadowboards/5s so the new guy doesnt have to wade into a pile of crap. If good people leave ask why, and genuinely take their reasons on board. I wish you the best of luck.
Before I was born, in the 1980s my grandparents owned half a tool and die shop. They started as employees of a dying business. Neither of them finished high school but they bought into the company for half ownership. My grandmother was self taught and reorganized EVERYTHING paper wise, business wise etc and saved the company. She turned it into a workable system. She dealt with all the paperwork, contracts, numbers, etc. My grandfather ran the entire shop floor. Shop foreman. He they each had their own role, and it worked. They ran it for over a decade before selling their half.
All of the companies I've worked for manufacturing or not were like that. They wanted suggestions for ways to improve to help be efficient and profitable but were unwilling to make any suggested changes. I made suggestions all the time I was there and only one was implemented and that made a world of difference in the machine I was using. Because of the inefficiencies at multiple companies it took longer and cost more money and I ultimately left to find something better. Those companies are mostly on the brink of bankruptcy now and claim to have no idea as to why. The plan for me is to try and open a company to take up slack while being as efficient as possible. These videos and the training are great for learning other aspects that I did not know beforehand.
Brother!!!!! We are doing a Rapid Improvement Event doing just this, this week. You the man! Needed this!
The idea of a time study applies across multiple disciplines. You can a time study for regular items in your house and save yourself an immense amount of time. Great job on this video!
Awesome words of advice Barry. Motivation is the key. You supplied the blueprint. Keep these videos coming!
Thanks Ray! Sometimes, all it takes to get better is being hyper aware of what is happening in the moment!
Can you do a detailed video on how the tool for cutting threads actually work? I'm having trouble understanding how a tool that has a linear motion is cutting angular threads.🤔 The video clip in this video reminded me to ask.
Thanks for what you and the team at Titans are doing and the information you putting out there.
Do you know what a vortex is? It's a 3 axis move of water circling while also going DOWN the drain. This is what thread milling is like, a combination or a circular interpolation on X and Y while the tool advances linearly in Z. The silhouette of the thread form exists in the cutting tool itself, the machine motion has nothing to do with the included angle or shape of the threads.
These videos are always entertaining and very informative. Some of the thinking is transferable to other trades as well.
Man oh man, this information is gold.
Where I work in aviation manufacturing, it is a hot mess.
It’s like the head of production is committing all of these errors.
I’m going to take this information, apply and tweak it for us.
My old shop that I worked at tried to do a lot of what your talking about but when it came to solutions we always had to be the ones to do it and if we couldn’t the suggestion would basically just get thrown away with no explanation. I had one time where we were flipping the part on the fixture 3 different times and in that process having to remove bump pins and mitee bites and put in locating pins and then repeat the whole process all over again. I calculated that if they would make multiple fixtures it would save 10 min per part on a 30 min cycle time on a job of 300 parts so they then had me go around and look at all of the fixtures in the entire shop to find the ones that had this same issue. So after I did all of that work the engineering department just said. This is how we’ve always run these parts and threw out the suggestion and we had to do this while keeping our machines running otherwise they would get mad at us. That and whenever we had a major issue they would typically just blame us instead of working with us and they would basically say we were bad at our jobs. Thank god I left that job now I work at an extrusion die shop making significantly more money and I also love my job!
In that case, you made the right decision by leaving. Its actually a bit sad how many EXCELLENT ideas are cast aside by people with ZERO understanding of what we do. And the end result is almost always a company that struggles to find new talent, or retain their existing talent. I mean, machinists TALK. And then, the company usually starts to whine about the “skills gap,” when in reality…..it is a “listening gap.”
@@barrysetzer thanks for reading my long monologue I love the videos. You’re precisely right. Because they couldn’t keep people they were constantly hiring machinists straight onto days. What they would do is they started doing after I left is going to tons of high schools in the area and telling the kids how great it was and would give them tours through the shop. They would then work there for little money most likely as a first job and that’s how the company started getting by (plus they didn’t even pay their current machinists that much either). My co-worker told me this after I left. My production manager who was one of the main reasons I left straight up harassed me on my last day saying I’m making a huge mistake and he honestly made it sound like I personally betrayed him. Plus he asked me for examples and I gave him some then he really angrily debated those reasons with me and I told him this right here is the reason I’m leaving
You arent alone, bud. I once had an owner that i broke my back for, for 6 years, tell me (after i gave my 3 weeks notice, and 2 days before it was complete) “You fat, worthless mfer. You learned everything you know from me. Get tf out of my shop.” Oddly, that actually hurt my feelings as I had given like 150% there. But, without what I actually learned there, I wouldnt be HERE. Sooooo yeah, LIFE!
@@barrysetzer damn that’s crazy! For 5 years I gave 110% for that company and they treated me like shit. When I got to the end I literally just stopped caring and became very lazy. It was so hard to get through the 1 1/2 month long period it took me to get my new job. Because when I hit my limit is when I put in my application at the new place. But I’m also lucky because about 2 weeks before I put in the application to where I work now is when I’d first heard of it. At my new place I’ve talked to people who worked at the place I was planning to go and they said it sucked. It’s like the old phrase everything happens for a reason. You’ve maybe heard of Cloeren Inc. that’s where I work now and I absolutely love it here
When you put in the WORK, you land exactly where you were MEANT to be. Cheers!
Dealing with the same issue, biggest issue is we have 1000s of parts with lots of setup, and the setup sheets for basically every part is wrong and if you follow a setup sheet you will either crash cause it’s a new program and no one updated the setup sheet to accommodate or scrap a part. And no one is willing to fix the issues it’s all tribal knowledge so what do you do when they’re gone, thankfully in my department me and my buddy have FINNALY got it all fixed for the next Group of guys can follow a setup sheet that will lead to success
That is like one of the most important things ever. I love your comment. You GET IT.
I recently retired after 54 years from a CNC programmer/machinist job. I have been through all you have shown here and have implemented it in some shops. Other shops, even large ones, had the attitude of "were making money now, why change" and simple solutions weren't heeded. I have worked in management on the shop floor and as head of inspection departments. I have found that many of my fellow managers didn't trust or have a very high opinion of the people working for them.
There is a lot of great points in here Barry. All of us machinists have experienced searching for a tool for hours. It is always very frustrating.
having a good post processor is key .
I’ve never had anything to do with CNC or any kind of machine work, but I’ve been watching this channel and it’s grrrrreat.
Would love to learn and work in your shop but at 58 and living in uk makes that impossible.😟
Carry on making great recordings love em.👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼🤘🏻
I'm surrounded by inneficiency, literally swimming in it and just myself to get it done. Watching this has inspired me however ! Thanks
It takes a bold manager to ask for help for the people who are doing the work. BUT these are often the people who know why its a disorganised panic to panic existence. Running to stand still may be the norm in that shop. Spending the time to look at issues may feel like adding more time pressure. By making a small saving in time for everyone justifies the time taken to identify and direct the energy into a new direction. A lot of brilliant stuff in this one that any process and place can take on…. Yes the big machines running super-fast is a joy to watch. To have a workplace change from running and chaos into a smooth place is justification in its self for the time spent in looking AND seeing where savings can be made. Brilliant Barry. No wonder Tyson pulled you into the fold.
Thanks! And yeah, it's amazing how many shops just don't think about these types of things. A little awareness goes a LONG way!
this is great. i'm in the software industry and this insight applies 100%.
I worked as a CMM programmer at a place once. I couldn’t get them to buy new ruby tipped touch styluses. Those are consumable items. The ones I had to use were years old. I ran a program on a part twenty times without moving the part just to show them it was impossible to get food measurements with the current setup. The dimensions were all over the place. They still refused to buy new touch points. And they wondered why dimensions were out of sync
we did on time demand for parts, it proved better, when you pay for inventory to set it to the side on a shelf for months total lost profit, 2nd on complicated parts, we litterly made boxes to save the end mills. special taps, etc,
Free knowledge right there!
Amazing channel!
2 hours to setup a 3 axis job sounds great for me. Granted, I typically set up and leave FOREVER or make a 6 month quantity. Between finding and building tools, setting the workholding up, proving through a program (that alone could take 2 hours depending), 2 hours is a dream. I typically like to do 2 full runs after a prove as well just to make sure no variables are messing with other programs (even though at this point I should be confidant they aren't).
Yes I believe 2 hour setup. Things in our shop now get legs and hide in different areas of the shop. Like in stock rack or at someone's home shop.
Tbh just a week ago I did an 8 hour setup on a 3 axis job. Not a big part, complicated but manageable. The time eater was it was an account handed over to new programmers, and I'm not the usual guy to handle that account on the floor so I had unproven numbers across the board and had to creep into everything.
When in doubt, I always refer back to my Lean training; its all about the flow
PS we tried robo crib works pretty good that way you can always manage where the tool goes and what job it was for and if you have to you can charge the customer for tool usage and it can go back in the bin or back in a storage unit that you should have if the cutter is still in good shape and keep them in a bin not just laying around
This is basically my argument for getting me a new machine.(We're a 2 man shop)The machine I run currently can't meet the tolerance required its wore out.(1995 Hurco) I did a job last month we had to send out to jig grind. The total cost was around $2k on this one job. We have parts edm'd that wouldn't need to be with new machine. The payment on a new machine is around $2500 a month. Jobs like those would cover most of the months payment alone.
Seems like you had a good Machine Shop Manager. I am sure lots of folks will go on about how he didn't have any machining experience. And that is a problem. However, the important thing is, he LISTENED to people who DID have that experience. Not everyone is going to have every skill that is required for success, but if they can understand and address their own deficiencies then things may yet work out.
Management thinks a standard of 15min is good for every job, I chuckled at that, because it’s true of where I work.
Had a boss tell us once our setup time should be getting faster over time despite us not making the same thing every day and working on castings
@@Reesefo Management cut our batch numbers to 1/4 of the size ; basically make the parts they need for the week . But they where blind to the fact that they increased setup time by 400% for the month .😂
I enjoy the motivational videos the most thank you
I’m still young in my CNC machining career, haven’t learned setup yet…I’m itching too though. I’m just trying to learn all I can to be a competent and complete machinist. Long way to go.
Hahaha that's the great thing about machining, you never stop learning! Even after doing this my entire life, I STILL have a long way to go!
Make sure that management knows that you are hungry to learn. Sit down with them and discuss what they expect of you. If you can see if you can put together a training schedule. At certain points in your training you should be compensated for your growth. Learning is all well and good but don't let management take advantage of your hunger. If you can do a complete setup without supervision you should be getting more money than you are now as an operator. I've seen it happen where guys learn and grow but management never rewards the growth. That can be a morale killer.
Great video. Keep up the good work👍
Great video Barry, appreciate it!
Thanks Justin! We appreciate you, too!
Just remember it has to be made right 1st and fast 2nd. No amount of "efficiency" will make up for not making good parts 100% of the time. Nothing is more expensive than scrap. There are many facets to efficiency and setups are just one. As a previous Aerospace shop owner, it starts with a properly quoted job. You can't out engineer a bad quote. But you must know your business like the back of your hand and have the people and equipment that can execute and exceed your estimate, both SU and Run time wise. You must also be intimate with your cost structure and OH costs.
I didn't go to work for entertainment value, I went to work to make money. Our people respected us, and we put them 1st. Our customers respected us, and we put them 1st too.
Great video. Thank you so much. I will share with my students.
Thanks for watching! Tell your students we said hello!
Love this type of tips. Ciao, Marco.
Definitely would love to see some videos on this
Personelly i do feel like i do this on a every day basis at any job i do. Not to be faster and lazy but to work smart and more efficient. Im a shovel operator and a dozer and tractor operator for peat moss farming and theres always a window where theres opportunity to be more efficient if we just open our eyes ! 👍🏻🇨🇦
You guys are awesome. GOD BLESS
My boss will be receiving a link to this vid. 👍
I have to wait minutes sometimes for the lathe to get up to speed 😂 A 5 minute turning job takes 15 but thats only if you can easily find the tooling required
That has to start from the top but still be employee driven.
I have worked for many companies ( mostly smaller owner/operator) where the owner had developed a process in their frame of knowledge & understanding & would not change no matter how much it would benefit them.
Conversely employees need an organization & constant improvement culture where their input (since they have to jump through whatever hoops are set up) It has to make sense to the people who use it every day & not some manager or “expert” “consultant” .
Preach it. My biggest PITA is looking for tools.
There is a special rule in the objects world that says.... The tool you don't need will appear in every nook and corner of your workshop 🛠 but when you need it 🧐... you will never find it👻😂....
The only solution is to put an iron locker next to each machine and put the belongings of that machine inside it
Then paste this sticker on it 👉☠
This is a problem for me when running our machine 3axis mill just about all our jobs are only 1 or 2 parts so by the time you identify a problem the part my be just about Finished and we my never make that part again
Efficiency is talked about far more than it is implemented. In my experience, the person to bring up the topic is seen as a professional threat by others in the shop because if measures are taken and prove fruitful, everyone else imagines they look dumb. No one wants to be made to look like a fool.
Setups are the bane of my existence. Where is it? It's got slurry on it, lets clean it. It's fucked up, start over. Tooling is heavily disorganized, dirty, damaged. It's "fun" making 1 drill 3-5 times because some component of the tooling is screwed up giving you crap runout. Everything is so bad and it's supposedly why I don't get raises, because my efficiency is absolute trash. Still working there after a couple years... Maybe there will be a 4th guy after me, dunno.
Dropping knowledge. Is something like what you used to do better suited for quick change pallets?
Words of wisdom!
I'm at a shop run by graphic designers and bean counters. We specialize in low order quantities and custom work while also doing all the company's prototyping, so there are a couple thousand different products in our catalog. Every time we want to make an optimization in our workflow, replace an inefficient machine, etc... the idea dies at the bean counters who immediately demand a full cost difference study for EVERY SINGLE PRODUCT. Needless to say this costs tens of thousands of dollars to do that many studies so nothing ever gets improved.
Im hearing with all of what you are saying we have the same problem!
Years ago, Toyota proved to the world that efficiency makes the most money overtime.
2 hour setup time, my place is about 3-6 hour depending on who getting it set
with the probe, I can have a setup in a few minutes.
@@wannabecarguy Yeah If you don't need to change setup.
Whenever you need to remove or replace a vise or adding a 4th axis setup (like I tend to need for a job), I doubt you'll use anything under 30 mins..
Running a small or one man shop should be easy to keep organized, but it is just the opposite. When you focus on getting work done you tend to ignore some of the type of organization and record keeping that can help you out. Organizing tools, especially if you use a lot of different ones for short run jobs can be a daunting task. Having someone else around to do that for you would be great but making the time to do it just isnt always there. Especially if you are not sure how to do it. I still find it amazing how much thought and effort it takes. Charles
I am a 1 man shop. I am my own worst enemy. I walk around the shop with a tool in my hand and subconsciously leave it where it can never be found.
I'm also a one man shop and I think it's important to have enough toolholders. I think I have about a hundred for a single mill, and could use a few more for drills, as I tackle a large variety of jobs. But basically the good tools are already in the holders ready for service. Any tools just laying about are junk, suitable for more abuse in very rough or manual mill use. Brand new tools are in their boxes in cabinets, where you'd expect. Of course I do have to change the odd tool once in a while, but it's not like the drudgery of opening up and cleaning every colletted toolholder I own.
I also precision milled the keys under my 2 Kurt vises by inverting them on a single straight edge and trimming them to match the T slots. I never have to realign those 2 vises in Y, and one is a half a thou higher in Z, and I know about it already!
What is the average hourly rate that you pay your set up guys.?
I have a vmc, need to do a boring of 200mm deep in cast iron, getting lot of vibration and lots of problem is there any way you can help
What diameter, and what size is the hole youre starting with
Solid!
Top KEK!
Vending machine, automatic ordering, but also i've seen guys just toss a tool that looked a little worn because no one cared about the fact we were going through 10 ruffers a week, which made no sense.
the thing about 5s and lean manufacturing is that, they only really work if the workers care about the shop as much as the owner does. motivation is a big driver in this industry. why should I give a care about the shop, if the shop doesn't have a care about me.
An owner should never expect his managers to care about the company as much as he does, and managers should never expect his workers to care as much as him. If you can get 70% out of both, you are doing very well.
Building a tool crib was one of the best things I have ever done for efficiency.
Preach!!
I have a question for anybody willing to answer. Is GM, Production manager, Inspector, QC, machine mechanic, customer service, setups, and operator too much responsibility for one person. I am pretty much responsible for everything but the bills and getting and quoting work for the shop. We generally have between 7-10 employees total, with 7 cnc mills, 5 cnc lathes, 1 manual mill, 1 manual lathe, 1 manual surface grinder(running 50% of the tine),1 automatic surface grinder, and 2 swisses.. We have some automation, 5 robotic arms total, 1 runs periodically, but the 2 on the lathes, and 2 on mills run every night, so plenty of parts to deburr off the mills every morning. We also have an assembly area where we assemble our product. I've been in my position for a little over 3 years and I love machining and my job, but I feel like I'm drowning, and am always missing stuff because I have soo much going on. Do I just need to suck it up and keep truckin along(which I'll do) or is this not a sustainable situation!? Any advice or opinions are greatly appreciated!!
It sounds like you are a fellow alpha dog, and you take on anything that's thrown at you. I've always done the same, but you have to be very careful that you don't burn yourself out. Start delegating more, even if you run the risk of something not getting done right. That's the only way people learn. In the end, it is better to do 1 job at 100%, than to give 5 jobs 20%, but it is incredibly valuable to be capable of doing all of the jobs that you are. "I am a jack of all trades, but a master of none. But sometimes that's better than a master of 1."
study up on time management strategies. but also don't kill yourself.
Customer service shouldn't be on you if you're an operator imo..
Have a complicated set of parts, looking for quote on time and cost for domestic manufacturing. Are you open for business?
By and large, the qualifications of people can be divided into 4 characteristics, including civilian employees.
Quote from Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord.
Officer in the Army General Staff.
“I distinguish four types. There are smart, hardworking, stupid and lazy officers. Usually two properties come together. Some are clever and hardworking, they have to join the general staff. The next are stupid and lazy; they make up 90% of any army and are suitable for routine tasks. Anyone who is smart and lazy at the same time qualifies for the highest managerial positions because they have the mental clarity and nerves of steel to make difficult decisions. One must beware of the one who is at the same time stupid and industrious; no responsibility should be assigned to him, because he will only ever do mischief.”
Intelligent and lazy combined, the person is constantly looking for ways to make their job as easy as possible.
This leads, for example, to the production methods being made more efficient or other hurdles, problems or useless work steps being eliminated.
Lazy does not necessarily mean that someone does not want to work, but that this person wants to get the job done with as little effort/time/material as possible.
Visit to Toyota Japan factory headquarters for their extreme timesaving practices where they show you the worker's habits in efficiency 3 hour video please
I studied the Toyota way and got to work with one of the original authors.
You are so smart!
Could you please inform my wife of this? LOL
@@barrysetzer It won't work.
Back in the last millenium there were time and motion experts where I served my apprenticeship...
I'm a firm believer in the Toyota way, that's why I quit working in manufacturing. US based companies (for the most part) only see lean mfg as a way to make more money without having to spend all that much on employees
It baffled me that a shop didn't have a log and organization of tools. An automotive/diesel mechanics shop will have all the tools they need in their box/cabinet and if they don't have it they will buy it twice. First time from a store just to have it if urgent and 2nd from Snap On or Matco for quality.
Part of the problem w/ machine tools is that most tooling has a relatively short service life so you need constant inventory management
How to improve a shope where workers simply do not care cos they're minimum wage and the owner wont put wages up also, cos he does not care. Everything somehow works out for him.
This is why I work alone and pay my self out on the optimization and eat it when I’m wrong.
I worked for a company whose unofficial mission statement was: "We supply high precision parts, delivered on-time, at a reasonable price. Pick two." Sound familiar?
So smart it's simple time is money