Great CNC Machinists Don’t Get Paid Enough | The Biggest Problem in CNC Machining
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- Опубліковано 18 сер 2021
- Hopefully this can help spark a little bit of change in this industry or at least for a few machinists and machine shops moving forward...
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#CNC #Machining #Machinist - Наука та технологія
Titan is giving a prefect example of the “Pareto Principle”. 20% of the people are responsible for 80% of the outcome, those 20% should be rewarded accordingly.
Hear Hear!
square root of the number of people produce 50% of the work. Clean cites please. 100 people, 10 doing 50%, 4 people 2 people doing 50 %.
A piece of metal is just a lump of scrap until a machinist adds value by turning it into a component.
A machinist is the most undervalued of all trades
Brilliant commentary. I’m a non practicing machinist. I make almost twice as much driving a truck than I can in a machine shop and even a tool room. I don’t really like being out on the road away from my family, I would love to go back to doing what I studied for and loved to do. I have 15 years experience mostly manual but some CNC working aerospace and semiconductor industries. Very tight tolerances. There’s something wrong with this picture folks. In today’s trucking market you can be making over $100k with one year experience. In my neck of the woods It’s difficult to find a CNC machinist that makes over $80k regardless of experience. Frustrating.
Keep on plugging away Titan.
I agree in 15 years I've only known of maybe 4 making over 80k my self being one, the only one making 100k but he was more of a product engineer who came up from machining lead a plant with 130 CNC and a casting shop to get the money
I hear you and it is frustrating I have been working for 20 years and I make 52.000$ as a manual machinist the highest you can make as a manual is 65.000$ where as a cnc machinist it will range from 17hr to 32hr dollars an hour but it is what is I guess the industry look at us as not very important I chose my bed and I’ll have to sleep in it
@@tonygombas491 yeah i believe a lot of times the term machinist in these videos are misused with a more applicable term of supervisor / shop lead. because a machinist run parts they dont take 40 cncs program them constantly with new parts and still run parts.
they guys these people are more in a management role with technical skills
I should live in america.... I live in Germany and a truck driver here with one year experiences earns maybe 25k if he is lucky. A cnc machinist with 40k a year is not even possible
@@maxmustermann4915 A dump truck driver could make between $50,000 to $80,000 but that’s with crazy hours my brother drives and he starts 5 am to 5 pm
I have never heard someone consistently speak so highly of their trade that they are so proud of. This is inspiring on so many levels, despite not being in the CNC industry. This is the level of effort I put into my own work, and it is inspiring to hear someone who appreciates those who dedicate their lives to being the best in terms of utility and passion at the company they work for.
Awesome man, awesome
Young 23yo machinist here, worked at home during the week-end and designed, programmed (using what i learned in the academy) a special milling/drilling tool for 3" holes using kennametal drilling inserts, then machined it at work. I got named best employee of the month and got 250€ + a small raise. Thanks Titan for the inspiration, boom!
WOW, Congratulations… Keep Rising😉
Congratulations 👍
Have you checked the price on a kennametal 3' indexable drill? You got pennies while your boss made dollars. It's because people work for free that the pay sucks.
@@diditwork370 Walter Tools tried to sell them something like that for 1200€, i'm already one of the best paid at my job and i'm only 23yo.. better paid than some older ppl. And sadly at my job u get the same 250€ if u win the monthly "contest" of the best improvement. Anyway boom :)
@@Steve_Sorel DTA young one unless you see it with your own eyes.
Can you do a video in the future about workshop management or what it takes to be a good workshop supervisor or foreman and basically what exactly they do.
This is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
You are spot on. In the Netherlands we saw In the financiel crisis after 2008 loads of cnc machinists switch to other jobs as metal working fell flat on its face. When economy got better they were asked to come back cnc machining again. But most answered : my current job is also nice , paying much better with less physical work and no greasy dirty hands......
That says it all.....
I started machining making $14.75 an hour about 10 years ago. I was a level 3 machinist, I could program dual turret dual spindle lathes, I made all kinds of fixtures for mill parts, I could do anything that was asked of me. im only making $23 an hour today… I’ve completely lost my motivation and pride because nobody wants to pay shit. I could sit on my ass and drive a truck for the same wage.
Maybe you should go drive that truck to be happy.
That's criminal. You should start looking at other companies. The biggest pay increases usually come from job hops. Sounds like they are straight taking advantage of your skills.
I think it's better than a malaysia.i work for 10 years.if i convert to dollar.only 4dollars /hour.
@@zengineeringmy9088 life is cheeper where u live
I make more working for amazon delivery. That is why I left 15 years ago.
Brilliant video Titan. I've done CNC machining 23 years now and enjoy my job making medical parts. I'm not the supervisor but do all the duties of the supervisor. Ie training apprentices. Ordering tools ect. I do it because I enjoy it though. Keep your good work up BOOM
I don't always comment on your videos, even though I have found them to be excellent.
This one ..... this one speaks volumes to the problems with a lot of manufacturing companies.
I worked for a family owned company for three decades after I mustered out of the military.
They were, and are, awesome people.
I went to school on my own (Wentworth Institute of Technology, and others) , to improve my skills and keep up with new ways of machining.
I had been a manual machinist since I was a teenager, which helped with methodizing, but I wanted to keep learning.
They made me a foreman / production supervisor.
Even after 30 years running a crew, developing work holding methods, and programming both CAD/CAM, and writing four axis code at the machines out of my head, I wasn't making half of what I felt, and still feel, I should have made.
When interior house painters are making more than guys like me that produce parts for military applications, deep sea research, aero-space, and medical applications, there is something seriously wrong.
Between enjoying the work, and considering the family that owns the shop my extended family, that in my mind was worth staying.
In hind sight, I should have started my own shop twenty years ago.
If companies don't start paying top tier machinists what they are worth (within reason), those machinists have the option to start their own shops.
In hind sight, I wish I hadn't been so focused on pumping out the work at the shop, and had started a plan to start my own.
Excellent video Titan.
Take care Bud.
Videos like this always motivate me to be a better machinist, but then I remember who I work with and my motivation dies quickly.
Lol…same
Lol same
Elaborate?
I quickly realized it was better for me strike out on my own, after working for a few companies. My thought process was hey I'm the one thats making it happen anyways why not work for myself.
I was a CNC machinist building plastic injection molds until 23 years ago and was making 110k in 1998. I ran 3 3 axis CNC machining centres and 2 EDM sinkers. I would take the drawings home, write the programs and have all 5 machines running 10 hours a day. I can still smell the coolant when I think back. I loved the creativity involved.
Titan you seem to be able put it into words the feeling I have about my job and where I work. I'm thinking how you explain the industry so clearly all while I'm watching your machine doing impressive moves. So glad I watched this, you make me think about how I need to work somewhere where management gets it. Always enjoy your insights into our field of work, Thank You you uplifted my self worth if that makes any sense to you. Would love to see you back on TV getting your message to more people.
This hits home man... been working for the same machine shop for 16 years. for a long time just doing the same old thing until 2 years ago when we purchased our first cnc mill. In the last 2 years I've learned how to run the mill and in the last year I've taught myself to program on my own time and ran successful programs now for the entire last year. ramped up production lowered cycle times and created new opportunities for the shop. And i make 50k a year as a one income family with a wife and a son. The only thing that keeps me here is the fact that my family owns the shop. Not going to lie its rough
How did you teach yourself to program?
@@r0bmc745 messing around with the free version of fusion 360, I think they charge for machining now i dont know for sure. and then testing the programs on plastic pieces before moving to metal. I already understood how the process was supposed to work from running the machine and just applied that to the programming side
@@r0bmc745 not to mention i had to read and understand the g-code for a mill and program long hand before ever getting into fusion
I could not agree with you more. I’m a machinist (CAD/CAM, cnc, manual, setups and fixtures) in Denmark and I take a lot of pride in making high quality parts. My last job was constantly rushing low standard parts out the door, and wouldn’t “pay” for the time it takes to optimise product quality. That results in a lot of reclamation’s trough out the company, and a very low profit. After only six years in the trade, I had enough and began studying to become a Mechanical Engineer, in the pursuit of more influence and a better salary.
Titan, I’m a fan of your work and the great videos 🇩🇰
This isn’t a problem only in the machining world. This affects all industries. Think about auto mechanics, same situation.
Not quite true. Parts can be manufactured anywhere. You will not export your truck to have it serviced by a mechanic. Jobs that pay best are jobs that have to be done right where you live, house building, dentist etc.
@@scotiaservices9078 You will if that truck's transmission exploded, and it needs to be rebuilt. Or your truck is a custom job (rare, but the point is there).
As for the best paying jobs. Depends on a lot of things, skill, education required, certification, etc etc. A decent welder will be making 24-30/ hr a couple years into his career. An underwater welder will probably doing double that. An auto mechanic, 17-20 maybe. A cargo ship engine mechanic? I honestly have no idea. But I imagine they're paid to the gills to do their job on multimillion dollar engines.
@@scotiaservices9078 core principle still applies, regardless of the nature, origin, or destination of the work. Find the people eager and able to elevate the business, and take care of them.
@@scotiaservices9078 Service jobs only pay the best because the overall national wealth has dropped from many years of stopped innovation. Used tobe these service jobs were low paying while manufacturing engineering in Sparrows Point US Steel and Bethlehem Steel made the US the envy of the world for a while
auto mechanics don’t have to learn nearly as much as machinists do. changing parts like legos isn’t difficult. not only am I a programmer, I can make repairs to machines, dial headstock tail stock, tram a mill head, clock a lathe turret and that’s just scratching the surface of what I can do. all of that skill isn’t including knowledge of metallurgy, tooling, setups or any of that.. machinists must know a hell of allot more than auto mechanics yet we make less on average. I wish I would have picked a different trade because machining is stupid.
Well, I was doing just that. Boss decided my work was so good that they put me in QC. Now I get to reject terrible looking parts all day because they took the only competent people out of our shop and put them elsewhere.
This is SO frustrating sometimes!! An operator will turn in a first part to be inspected, and something is out of tolerance. I let them know, and expect to see another part (with the problem fixed) shortly after the cycle time it should have taken to make an offset change and run another part (maybe 20-40 minutes). Yet sometimes it's 24 hours later....and now something else is out of tolerance. Then there are the operators who, as soon as they get the part bought off, will just hit the 'cycle start' and not make any offset changes, check parts, etc. I could go on and on, and on...but I'm sure you know and experience many of the same frustrations. On the other hand, if I were not working in QC, many of these garbage parts would inevitably make it onto the landing gear, flaps, etc. of a certain large aircraft manufacturer's products...no real risk there, right?
@@Dyna78 Yep. I even know exactly what went wrong most of the time since I originally was just a set up guy, so I go to the trouble of telling them how to fix their stuff, it just doesn't seem to stick. I do understand that if my bosses offered more money we may be able to pick up some people who take pride in their work, but the lack of discipline I see is concerning no matter what. I took pride in my work when I was on the shop floor and my current department head in QC was the one checking my parts. He didn't have to deal with what I have to, and he is equally exasperated.
Had two non machinists running the first two ops on a part and I’ve seen more scratches, dings, sawcut edges, etc.
To be a good machinist you need to be able to check a part to make a good part. So being a qc inspector is easier than making a good part. I just my opinion. And I would think must get boring. Also don't make since to me to take your best machinist off the floor?
Man what a factual lecture!! Wanna start with i love u and your team and believe strongly in what y'alls vision is!! Quick sad story is i am living this lecture now!! I'm not the best. Im not a master machinist by any means but i do test the machines. Inserts. Tooling. Find the limits. I run harder n faster than anybody else in my shop because I've seen more than most of em. Ive worked for the competition... Ive seen different different processes. Over 2yrs i tried to gef my leaders to get on bored and want to do better be better. They were convinced my parts would come back. Not once!! So after 2yrs and nothing changing i found a company with like minded ppl. Dreamers. Visionaries. Striving daily for greatness!! Improvement. I start Monday!! I love your videos. Knowledge. What y'all do for this industry!! Made in America baby!! And big shout out to your team too!! Always positive. Always thinking forward. Always striving for greatness!! Love u guys!! Get it Titan!!
Thats awesome, man! Keep doing YOU!
Congrats on the new opportunity… Love you to Brother. Thanks for the incredibly uplifting post.
Titan
So true, I feel this way myself. My mind scares me sometimes. When I get a new blueprint I swear I can see the part come alive and I start to put it together on how it will be processed in an instant! Fixture, tooling, programs everything! I would love to be in the same room with my manufacturing brothers who are like this themselves to share ideas and learn more off each other as we high five each other when it all comes to life!
Titan you inspire me, heck you inspire everyone you talk to I'm sure!
Success comes from humbled dedication, no mater what your boss asks for, do it with pride. Your attitude shines the light for you to see. Bless you Titan!
The problem is much deeper actually and not only related to the machinery. I'm 30yo phd engineer living in France and with all the experience, all the efforts I made I can have literally +500€/month comparing to a beginner cashier in a mall. But I don't blame the industry. Look, if you pay your experts a lot and it finally gives wood, in some time you will see a lot of companies with well payed experts, ain't it? Market is a self-supporting thing. All experts deserve more, but if an owner gets more money from sales manages, they will have higher income. This is how the things work.
What to do? Think broadly, the more responsibilities you have, the more salary an owner must dedicate to you.
I have realized that finally all your education serves to build a nice business for someone. To be an expert means to help someone to succeed in this life. You know more, you can do the best, but won't ever be paid more than a guy who manages people and things. My conclusion is that if you are an expert and you blame your salary, you are a bad expert. An expert is some1 who is able to learn things no matter from which domain. So learn economics and business development.
Most people do not understand what it takes to make a real excellent all around machinist. So I explain it in a more everyday fashion that they are used to everyday. I always say to people there are a lot of cooks out there but so few chefs that can take some basic ingredients and make it truly a meal to remember. This is the level of skill you get when you have a God given talent, a passion to learn and grow and the desire to get better every day.
Thank you so much for this Titan! I am a machinist and I am so happy to hear everything you just said in this video. It is all very true.
100% Right! But how easy it is to get demotivated when you’re surrounded by people who don’t want to change the way they’ve been working at for years… 😔 When I’m running my machine faster and using programming strategies that other employees didn’t even knew existed, making a lot better quality products, saving tool lives and still being told they wouldn’t done it that way…. That’s what demotivate me the most and make me question if there is any light in a tunnel 😣
Your biggest raise is when you leave to work for another company.
Every since I qualified as a machinist I’ve wondered about what you’re saying and have seen this problem first hand many times. Managers and crappy supervisors get company cars and bonuses and the talented tradesmen on the floor get payed the same as the crappy tradesmen. The best tradesmen end up leaving to get more money and the crappy ones stay and the crappy leading hands, supervisors and managers stay which makes the company go backwards.
Like you said pay the the star tradies what they’re worth and they’ll stay , only good things will happen to your company. BOOM keep it real 🤜.
my supervisor makes sixty grand a year a year and can barely read a print
@@Reesefo your job is to self destruct these companies. Since you haven't figured this out, you are getting what you are worth but it takes some years to do the math.
Hello Titan!, i hope you're doing well and your family. You're right on point on this topic. I see myself while watching this video. I just submitted my resignation letter a couple of days ago to my manager. I just couldn't stand it anymore. God bless you and your family. Thank you again for everything that you do. We love you. Take care brother. 👊
Wow, I think you toured our shop at one point because we have your autographed picture on the wall. We are the shop that you made this video for. The real machinists that can setup, understand, diagnose, and make us money (im not counting myself in that one) are underpaid and under appreciated. The company continues to buy new machines thinking that is the answer and solution and not seeing the big picture. The good machinists we have do a good job and do put in the work but they are treated the same as the rest of us and are paid just like the rest of us.
This is exactly why I don't machine anymore. I worked in aerospace and was only making $14/h machining $200k parts. The better you did, the more they expected with no increase in pay. Finally said screw it and left CNC 20 years ago.
I tell people to move around. Expectations always grow the longer you hang around one place.
You have great wisdom about key people. This applies across other fields also. Thanks for you Insight.
Excellent video Titan!! Thank you for always helping our trade and manufacturing!! You and your team are impressive!! Always pushing the edge of what's possible!
Is not the machine that makes difference …. It’s the operator 👍🏼
Love the speech titan ….thanks for sharing !!!!
I hear what your saying. Ive been at it over 33 years now! And still enjoy it.
Been working in this trade for over 20 years and I can strongly say that this guy is spot on 100% on everything he says.
Machinist wages ~50 years ago was 20-30/hr. Today they are around 20-35/hr. Adjusting for inflation, that wage 50 years ago would be worth ~50/hr right now.
No, they weren't that high. I think they were making about 4-5hr in 1970. 20 years ago yes and over 20 years may have increased 5hr. So your point is true. 3
The man that taught me automation in the late 90's had a saying in the early 2000's that sticks with me today. "Be a clock maker not a time keeper" clocks run on their own. His nickname was King Cobb and he came up with some amazing items to help with injection molding of plastic with inserts. Many times doing automation I would be accused of not doing my job until I took a day off, then I couldn't get to the time clock before I was asked to fix one problem or another. Those were the days.
Your story is important. Tell it today, tell it tomorrow and keep telling it. Thank you.
I love what ur doing Sir! Not a lot of machinist share their skill n will watch others fail. I’ve been blessed to work with my old man n he been at it for more then 30yrs. I show him ur videos of what we can achieve n the machining game. He’s old school n has old schools ways but I push to show him what can be done from watching ur videos. I’ve worked at another shop n seen what goes on… seen the segregation of machinist n not many share or when they help u out they make sure u don’t know what their doing. I came back to what is mine n rather stress out for my own then deal with what I experienced. I make parts from scratch then assemble machines with them. Love what I do! Nothing beats making ur own parts! I wanna say thank u for what u do for all of us machinists out here n the knowledge that u give us. Made me a better machinist. I’m based here in Houston Tx n hoping one day I can take ur course to become even better! I started from manuals to operator n now programmer/operator. Everything I know came from my old man but most is from my mistakes n learning how to fix it n make it better. Mad respect TITAN!
That’s Awesome… Please tell your Dad Hi for me. You have a great attitude… Take everything he says, learn it and then use your head to put a new school twist to it… or leave it alone as some fundamentals are timeless.
Take care,
Titan
When I teach kids about machining I don't hold back any knowledge. This is due to 30 years experience in machining programming and setup CNC milling machines. This is knowledge I take with me when retired so I believe in passing the skill I have down to the young machinest. I worked with old school tool makers that said never tech every thing you know. That's BS so I said to them remember someone taught you what you know. So anyone that is like that is in fear of their job. I love teaching and being told thanks for for what I taught them. That's what a good machinist should do and only gives you a great reputation. I was in fear of my job I did all the hardest jobs we had.
Well said! Passionate and hardworking machinists will take any company further.
BOOOOM!!! I knew I should have sent that application in....Love you Titan.
There going to push it harder snd get a cleaner cut , Words I’ve said myself on why my work look so clean ✌️ Interning for $250 a week with 60-80 hour weeks in high school made me a badass machinist ! Although those are my baby steps and can’t wait to Start your academy Boss! Thank you !!!!!
well stated, I have been at this game since the late 70's minus 4 years with uncle sam. I have been in over 12 different shops and to this day I go to work expecting to learn something new.
its more than a great trade, it's an art. so many facets. I love it!
Nice to hear someone speaking out for us guys, spelling out our worth. We’re the ones who make it happen.
Retired tool and die maker in Chicago. Served a 4 year apprenticeship from 78-82. Laid off. Made the journey through a few shops. Die making, automation houses, plastic injection molds. You name it. Lotsa Bridgeport work, surface grinding, lathe work. In the early 90's we started to see molds get farmed out to China. Ultimately, the tooling trades have lost payscale $/hr compared to pipefitters, electricians, elevator builders window glazers. The main way to get over 100k per year is with overtime and lotsa hours. Yes...the tooling trade is now vastly underpaid. Such a shame. Yep, get your CDL, drive overland, see the country. Sock it away for retirement.
Thank you Titan for your honesty to bring that matter up to the world of Employers in industrial Manufacturing specifically in CNC career, I started my career in machine shop when I was 14 years old, Mold making, tool making, forming and when I grew up in that industry and work working in different companies as a toolmaker and mold maker and then when I moved to USA in 2001 and started my new career as a CNC machinist and going to school to learn programming and CAD designing,,,,, bust guess what!!!! I exactly felt that pressure and not receiving an enough attention and staying in a lower salary after all those working experiences and educations,,,, wow, that was not fair and I said to myself it’s time to move on and change my career to a 180• opposite side of the story and got into Medical career after 4 years college and now I’m in operating room assisting surgeons and dealing with patient care🙈👀🙏
Great video and glad you share your knowledge and experience. Thanks for everything you do.
I'm 19, I run a Mori Seiki sl-303, I have also run a couple boring mills, I have always done my own set ups, fixturing, and programming, and I can't agree more with this, we definitely deserve a little more than we are getting, when I started off I was only getting 12.25, nowadays it's only a few dollars more, we really need more
I retired at a young age after starting and owning 3 successful hi-tech enterprises. Sold the last one (data security enterprise) in 2007. Now I make parts / fixtures in my garage and run my own 5 axis, just for the love and passion of it ! All my neighbours love me... My comment to all my friends : this is such a complicated field - and their best workers are at 50k per year !!! This is the only NONSENSE I see in this trade. I am happy to learn I am not the only one with such a perception. The escape route for the passionate learners : start your business, hire and make shareholders with the best ones.
Thats why i love it bro, u can never stop learning!!
Thank you for being the guy at the top. and the top of the top.....and looking out for this level of the foodchain... You're so right...and this goes for a LOT of industries...thank you.
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It’s great to hear this, especially from Titan himself. I am an extremely great machinists and the co I work for will not use me to my full potential because of management. I’ve worked here for 6 years and management has tried to set me up to fail in every way possible. I have yet to fail. And this co will never take away the fact that I am an extremely great machinist. Thanks Titan for recognizing the hearts of top machinist. We are a special dying breed. I’m proud of what I can do.
No machinist worth their salt tells people they are "great". No one "great" stays at a company not treating them well for 6 years. If you think you are good, find a new job. Not only will it test what you believe, it will inevitably push you to learn more.
@@theincantrix1144 And this is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. You are absolutely clueless to my situation so yes, this is your opinion with not knowing my situation. Have an awesome day!
Why did you stay there you are doing a disservice to your field and fellow specialists, only reason to stay at a company like that is to destroy it from the inside. For good
@@togowack Sometimes in life we have to do what we have to do to provide no matter what the situation is. Life is not always easy or fair. Thanks for the question. Have a wonderful day.
@@randum200 Hi Randum there are prisoners in North Korea in the same situation. When I talk about such thing with other employees I find its mostly a prison of the mind. Did your family not come to America at some point? why if not for better? Is there some point where you will fight.
This is so true. 40 years ago I started emptying garbage cans at a foundry. Saw the tool room was air conditioned. Stuck my nose around and asked alot of questions. Within 5 years I was running the tool room. All manual cross slides, trig tables, Yada Yada. Had a great owner that allowed me to take the bull by the horns. Started production cnc machine shop in house on our castings. Also converted tool room to cnc.
Long story short, kids took over hired outside management came in and said I was being paid too much, I think like 25 an hour back then. So I moved on and became a plumber for twice that. Just retired with a plumbers pension.
I worked my ass off for over 30 years. Every part I made I looked for a better way to do it the next time. I worked for 2 companies during that time. Now, all China, Mexico and so on. Corporate does not care about you. If you want to make cool stuff like this guy? Start your own job shop. I think this is how we keep maching in the US.
9 companies in 30 years, worked 5 yrs at 3 places - 5 yrs was the limit. Most people don't bounce out of apprehension of their own skills.
i usually change jobs every 3yrs cause of how jobs are. current cut half our mill time out by changing our programing and fixturing, mill guy will walk off for up to a hr or run everying at 25% rapid, tells his boss well if i run at 100% ill be out of work in 2 days. That was and is the acceptable answer so far.
30 years in machining, worked at 9 different companies. Big companies you're a number, and small companies have narcissist owners. I wouldn't change it though - fun through change by bouncing.
Lol 25% rapid maybe he wants to have time to react if anything goes sideways
@@theincantrix1144 kinda do that already myself. My boss is worried cause he has known me before this job and is like your not looking to move anywhere new are you ?
@@HITTAGAME I'll give it to the guy i have never seen someone take less then 10hrs of work and make it last exactly 40 haha, his supervisor is better, i was looking at make a new fixture for a part and he asked why, its fine already don't bother him please.
After 50 years of machining all over the world I agree with everything said here. You can lift a shop but you never get paid for it. I"ve made more money as a part time window cleaner.
This fits right in line with Automotive Master Technicians. This is why there is a technician shortage, pay. Most of the master technicians have left (like myself) and are now working for railroads, utility companies, etc.
This is so true when I started in 97 running cnc vertical lathes I was making 9 something a hour, when I left ten years later I was only making 14 something a hour and I could setup and run like six different lathes,not all at once and do some minor program edits cut some soft jaws and various other things, but the money wasn't there.
I hope that we've all been in that position where we made everything better.
Titan preaching real lessons lovin it.👌🏻
Lmao you're so on point here. My company foreman was telling us the other day how they're getting us so much new equipment for the company to grow. But he hires nothing but apprentices to run the machines. All our setups seem like crappy setups cuz the apprentices don't know what they're doing...
The apprentices will grow with the company, its a cycle, they should keep around a few experienced people to make things work.
The student is only as good as the teacher
Agree with you but the good machinists and programmers are rare.
That's why I started my own shop. I worked at a place were we sent many parts out to be made even though we had a shop. Management never thought big enough to provide the right machines. But I would do this one part / 50pcs a month that shops struggled with. President of the company confronted me one day. Why are you making this part when Victor down the street has 500K dollar machine he run these on. Victors job shop just made 50pcs and all failed inspection. So I had to point out its the person not the machine that makes the part correct. I've been making this same part now 26 years , not a problem.
I got a job in a small company manufacturing, I never knew what CNC is and when they put me in the machine I taught It would be the same as other manufacturing warehouse were you just press a button… but not CNC , a whole new experience for me, and I’m barely finding out with research that CNC machinist are they key factor of a company, and we dont get paid enough…. No one at my job wants to learn it, and I see why
CNC takes a lot of brain to remember the programs, etc, my respects to everyone on the CNC business
Key is to produce your own products and not for others… but it requires way more talent than just machining.
Yes thats the goal it requires cnc skills programming a little capital money to get your own machine . And ahh yes an entrepreneurial mindset
@@HITTAGAME When you develop your own product the challenge of machining and writing programs will become childs play in comparison to product development. All this stuff Titan talks about is in books. Sandvik and Geuring lab test all tools software analysis.
To make your own product is to design something. So you need to patten it and to do that you to make at least one prototype. And pay for patten protection that only lasts so many years. Easier said than done.
To keep being the best, treat your staff well, Stay professional and don't be a @ss.
Titan, you guys rock, from you down to the bottom of the rank, all of you, great video as usual.
Someone PLEASE send this to my boss!
Exactly what I went through the past 26 years. Yes I didn’t finish my Machine Tool Operations diploma but it didn’t matter. Machining came second nature to me. I’m self taught, mostly. But the problem is you’re looked at as just a "button pusher," change part push button. All of this is pushing me away from machining, or thinking of ways to run my own shop and find ways to grab some market share from the companies that don’t appreciate their machinists. Looking for a job that pays well is just about nonexistent. $14.00 to maybe $20.00/hr if your lucky. Crappy benefits and barely anytime off. Sweat shops really. Even if I go back to school and finish my diploma in machining that still will not do any good. Maybe it’s time to move on, I’ll miss machining because for awhile it was my passion. It made me feel good that I could creat something with my hands and control a machine to produce parts. I’m still hoping something will come along that pays well, fingers crossed.
i love listening to you while watching chips fly
This is what I did, I was a top machinist at an automotive company (not trying to be big headed, I was a hard worker running 5 and 6 axis machines) but the cash wasnt there. So I went back and did Mechanical Engineering and now am a manager in R&D and you are 100% right. Top machinists are not nearly paid enough.
BUT - A good machinist can make a great manufacturing engineer !
Probably the BEST video on this channel! I've been saying and thinking this for most of my 25 years of being in CNC. VERY disheartening. And these CEO's don't care. So it'll stay a vicious repeated cycle. I wish I would have went into a different trade but hindsight is 20/20.
Here in NZ a setter/programmer/operator(we get dumped with all 3 roles) get at best $36NZ per hr. equally managment have no idea and I quote "we want to give 15mins training and have them making seals"(I machine hydraulic seals, so urethanes, rubbers, ptfe etc). We explained that was not gonna happen. "But thats what we want" . A uni degree in management makes you a genius...apparently. Ive seen 5&6 axis role advertised here in NZ at $25/hr...
Agree 100% Everything we take for granted daily, from the car we drive, to the water bottle on the table, manufacturing fuels everything. Ask the average person on the street what a Machinist does, the answer will be a blank stare. That even applies to people in other trades, for some reason the most critical trade to keeping everything running is a mystery to many. In a way manufacturing did this to itself, the secretive nature of it all. Intellectual property stolen causing more secrecy, jobs being outsourced, ultra competitiveness. We believe there is hope for the current state of things, that is why Octane Workholding is doing everything we can to share knowledge, much like yourself Titan. This trade is hard enough, anything we can do to introduce it to the masses, and help bolster those willing to put in the work to do great things.
Former machinist here. I went to vo tech for machining and started an apprenticeship. I started out at 13 hr back in 2018 near Pittsburgh PA. Not a lot but I beared with it because I only knew so much. After 3 years of doing it, I was only making 16.48 an hour at my last job. I wasn't top end, but I was trying to learn from those kind of guys to be more experienced. I really did try my hardest. I gave that craft everything I had. After realizing how little the job actually pays, I gave up. I knew how to do some editing, I knew G&M code. I was decent at set ups and retaining the control on the Okumas I ran. I knew how to run manuals as well. I have 9 of my NIMS credentials. I should have been making minimum 20 hr. But just realizing how hard it is to actually make money, I was done. I tried college but left that because I didn't have the money anymore. I decided to be a mailman. Much easier job on me and I make more money as well as in a union. I don't see the industry surviving at this rate. I do miss doing machining and learning how to program and tooling. Definitely the hardest trade I've ever seen. If I ever have kids, I'll never recommend them to be a machinist. I never recommend high school kids to do it either. We need more unions, pay increases and benefits for machinists. Such a difficult and underpaid job.
Thanks Titan. I’m forwarding this to my M.D.
You are correct. Top management always think that the tech on the floor is the answer. They just don't take into account the need for highly skilled individuals to make it happen. Keep up the good Titan 👍
this video is the exact reason why i stoped being a cnc machinist. i milled water pump turbines on 2 machines and had them running without me needing to check after everything and on a 3rd machine i did some job shop work. each turbine sold for approx. 50000€ and i increased the output of these turbines from 5 per week to 25. i was paid 16€ an hour witch amounted to 30000€ a year. when i asked for a raise they said they weren't able to afford that and that i am already one of the best paid employees. well i left after that and now i do small job's in my garage and earn with that alone a good amount on the side.
sorry for bad english
Totally agreed with titan 👍. You are the best CEO and best MACHINIST🙏🏼.I wish oneday i will join your company to learn more about manufacturing process in USA 🇺🇸
A much needed sermon. Amen
For the amount of time/years it takes to get great at machining you can't learn in 4 years. But you can get a college degree in 4 years that will pay slot more than machining will pay. Great trade I love it just so underpaid for a high skilled trade that requires learning in your whole career.
Titan is a great leader in the industry and great patriot
This is the reason why the number of young people interested in the trade is decreasing. If you talk to them most dream of having office jobs because they think the salaries in the machining trade are not good enough or not worth the trouble. Even some experienced guys are leaving and doing other things totally different trying to get a better living. These trades hold the economy together and they need to get the recognition that they deserve.
17 years in the trade and now focusing more on my side gigs planning for an exit strategy. I love machining, but local pay is falling way behind other industries.
This is the game
Is so true I taught my self industrial automation Cad Cam macro programming along with 8 more programming languages I know I’m a gem someone will find me.
I have two years experience in tgis trade. A third generation machinist but I thing its because we forget to learn some soft skills such as salesmanship. Well, I may wrong but I stand to be corrected.
This part is sick!!!
I’m currently building my own CNC milling machine since I can’t afford anything like a Tormach. I’m a newbie and a computer science student but I’ve learned a LOT doing this. Thanks for the awesome video!
Get a cnc acorn card. Just did this its great!!
@@dominic6634 I’m actually using LinuxCNC on a Raspberry Pi 4 connected to some Mesa FPGA cards over SPI. I prefer it over Centroid or especially Mach 3/4 (windows shouldn’t be used in a real time system). It’s hard to learn how to use the HAL in LCNC at first but after you get past the learning curve it becomes so powerful, especially if you know Python and you want to make your own UI and use the LcNC Python api for automation tasks as well.
@@dominic6634 what is that cnc acorn card?
Get a used CNC off a auction. You would be surprised how cheap you can get one sometimes. Even a old manual lathe is easier to convert to a CNC than building one from scratch and has some advantages that a DIY one won't ever have cause I am sure you will not use a ton of cast iron and steel for a very strong and rigid machine.
Though expect to pay 3 or 4 times as much just on the tooling as you did on the machine as I have found out.
Though if you want to make a wood/plastic/aluminium hobby machine I guess DIY isn't much more expensive than a used industrial one.
@@GGWalace yeah, the problem is space and moving the machine. My machine is made of mild steel weldments and plates bolted together. I have to install some new waycovers I got recently before I use it again (and allow me to use my flood coolant system). I’m about to have a major increase in income, and eventually I want to buy a used Brother machine or something in that price range that isn’t stupidly huge (10K-25K USD). When I’m able to build a proper shop I do want to start buying new Mazak machines lol. Meanwhile, I’ll keep writing code, including my own constant engagement tool path algorithm :)
As a machinist , truer words have never spoken.
Finally, Finally someone is talking about the reality is going on in manufacturing and its you titas thank you very much. Is so anfer that only ceo are taking the money and we as cnc machinist only like not even 20$ an hour thank you titan
i am just a millwright who enjoys watching this stuff. but 100 percent agree with whats been said here. even in my trade we are often expected to do alot with really nothing at all. as millwrights our workshops havnt changed since the 1950s. No budget for us.
As the top Machinist I made all of 26 dollars an hour.
For less than $1,000 worth of equipment I made pallets for machine shops to ship their parts on.
on average I was making over a hundred an hour and all I needed was a hammer a nail bar radial arm saw a Skilsaw and a couple of nail guns all from harbor freight.
And what I didn't have was the headaches I did not worry about every single move I made or scrapping $100,000 piece of material on and on.
I still had deadlines but those were the best deadlines I ever had when I delivered my pallets I got paid, not a week later not 2 weeks later or when I worked at one of the national labs a month later right then and there on the spot because people want to ship their parts and get paid themselves.
Granted not every part needs a fancy pallet to ship but the ones that do you can't just throw them on the back of a truck.
There will always be some clowns like Sperry that forces you to buy only from approved vendors certified materials that's fine just takes the price of the pallet times 10 boom.
Hand me a one page blueprint and 25 pages of specs yeah it's going to be 10 times and that still may be too cheap.
I always thought machinist would rule the world
Sadly I ended up hating the trade that I loved to the point where I'm glad I don't have to work anymore.
I literally left the last job shop empty-handed I took nothing with me I walked away they were absolutely flabbergasted they demanded I return for my tools.
As they were bringing them out of the door I threw them directly in the dumpster I think half the shop had to been out there with their mouths hanging wide open and I left feeling free like a giant Atlas had been lifted off of my shoulders.
After that I went into field service worked for a couple of the very finest machine builders in Germany and finally an Italian machine builder but specialized in machines for processing structural steel members and plate for building buildings and girders more like overpasses and big highway projects infrastructure remember shovel ready Obama.
The biggest blow for me was this theft of the election and that whole covid thing and I wonder now why I ever bothered.
The casualness of these scumbags just destroying everything that I ever worked for and I look at all the people who can't go back to work and earn any more money have there bank accounts hammered by these bastards in DC makes me want to vomit.
All the lies Democrats tell while they kill the very people they claim to champion the whole time pointing the other party who are just as bad as they are blaming them for killing old people.
Spot on.
I'm a service tech/trainer for glass CNCs. Even though 90% of what I do is comparatively simple 3 axis stuff, the first thing I tell any ops/production manager is that the machine is only as good as the operator, programmer, and maintenance staff. Find the talent, and retain it. Most never connect the dots.
Owners/supervisors pay a cost either way. Option A keeps the payroll numbers down, which makes accounting happy. Option B results in needless downtime, extended lead-times, shoddy quality, decreased machine life, and upset customers. Much of that never shows on the bottom line, but they're indicative of wasted growth potential and money left of the table. Choose wisely.
I've been in this trade for 30ish years now, (actually longer if you count me starting to learn it when I was 8 years old thanks to family and friends of the family and I'm almost 50 now) and I truly love this trade as it called to me just like blacksmithing did because metal speaks to me like nothing else. After discovering this channel so much of what you've discussed really hits home and I know I used to be very gung ho up until about a decade ago when I had an extremely bad experience with an employer who shall remain nameless pretty much destroyed my spirit and made me realize that most companies only see you as a number and you are only as good as your last success.
I hate that feeling and never wish it on anyone, I only wish blessings, success, happiness and good fortune to all of my brothers and sisters in this trade and never forget your worth to yourself and those that surround you.
I agree 💯 with you. You are just that employee # on your time card to them.
Watching this video and reading the comments, I am surprised at how low these CNC programmers salaries are. I am a regular software engineer and 6 figure salaries are the norm. You can't get experienced people for under 120k even. It's a shame because I am utterly fascinated by this and I wonder how well my 22 years software engineering experience would translate to CNC programming, but no way would I take that kind of pay cut!
Truth hurts to upper management 🙃 😪.. love how Titan explained it 👏 👌. I would work for you.
Most CNC job's are multiple machine button pushers running high production only.
Thanks Titan! Honestly its really bad here. They are still trying to pay programmer/machinists $35k a year here
EQ emotional quotient generally means that you may not have the skill set but you are fitting within the corporate culture therefore they'll train you that skill set.
the problem with managers and in general people that are higher up in the company is they don't like people that tell them that they are wrong and how to improve things, they only like people who can talk no matter if they deliver or not because they always will find an excuse. if you can talk you become a favourite of your boss and the people that talk about the problems of the company with the mindset to improve things are getting left behind, in my 5 1/2 years in one company i saw a bunch of good people come and go (i know 5 1/2 years are not a long time but i surrounded myself with good people to get acces to their decades of experience) and that's one of the reasons i also left only to realize that nothing will change in a different company. not machining related but also in the metal industry.
TITAN i agree with you 100% i been working for a company for 30 years, and i see problems in management /supervisors the whole companys moral is down, i wish i left years ago, i stayed because i was rising a family and it was study work,
I have won multi million pound contracts because i have ground stuff that other companies just cant. They can do all the other ops but, the grinding no. To be able to make the whole part in house is a major thing. No one wants to sub operations out. If i got $100k a year it would be double what i am paid now! Great video!
great video!!