Here's something for you to think about when rating Jordan's defensive impact. Offensive players he guarded shot a lower fg%, took less shots, had more turnovers and their scoring average dropped when compared to other defenders, in addition to his blocks and steals. That should tell you how great he was defensively
Also shaq. whose defense is often alluded to as being not that great but people just didn't go inside on him. Don't see it in the stat sheet but you see it in the game.
Him being 6'6, a long wingspan and big hands while being lighting quick is what made him a great defensive player. And let's not rule out his competitiveness and wanting to win at all cost mind set. He even had his Bulls teams as top defensive teams in that era 😁 Jordan, Pippin, Rodman, and harper were so freaking good on defense, its why they won all the time. This Jordan character never cheated the fans..
This is the true test of the GOAT. Who made the fans happier and who made more fans happier. There is only 1 GOAT... name is Michael Larry Ervin Jordan Bird Johnson. That is his full name.
I think it’s impressive that his offensive ability didn’t completely overshadow what he did on D. He worked both ends. Guys knew he would be brutal to guard & they’d have difficulty scoring themselves.
During his playing days, Michael Jordan was also one of the best defenders in the league. It was enough to cause NBA heavyweight Jerry West to say, ``Jordan's defensive ability was even stronger than his offensive ability.'' Even so, it is truly amazing that Jordan was selected to the All-NBA Defensive 1st Team nine times up until 1998, excluding the season in which he retired.
I wish you would have included: - Jordan got 9 all defense 1st teams in a limited amount of seasons - His off ball defense was insane. Watch the 4th quarter of game 7 vs Pacers in 98. - His timing and anticipation was crazy. A lot of times he jumped before the offensive player even left the floor.
@@antipro4483 How you rate it is up to you but the video says that others have more overall selections. But it leaves out this context. As a Bull Jordan was eligible for individual accolades only 11 times. Making an all defensive first team 9 times out of 11 is crazy.
@@tech-no-logictech9743 i don't like the "less time" argument. For example: It may seem more impressive to make 9 all defense 1st teams in 10 season than making 11 in 20 seasons but if you are a franchise owner you will always pick the second guy simply because you get more defense overall (assuming you just have these two stats). Playing less is not a skill
@@antipro4483 That's a whole different topic overall. I am simply saying it should have been mentioned when it was said that others got more 2nd team selections.
MJ is not the greatest defender ever but is one of the best defenders ever while also being arguably the greatest offensive player ever. MJ is, without a doubt, the greatest 2-Way player ever. 💯🔥🐐
I think as a wing defender, etc., he had the talent and athleticism to be the best if that was his main focus. He did it as needed but he also had to score and play O. players like Rodman just mainly focused on defending and rebounding why they may get more nods.
Michael was an exceptional weakside defender and solid strongside defender because he had great fundamentals and didn't rely solely on athleticism. But watch a lot of his full games (not just curated UA-cam clips) and Jordan gambled a LOT on defense as well, particularly with passing lanes. But he usually wasn't reckless and would only pick and choose when to be more aggressive deflecting passes for steals.
@@ryanb2607 I never stated or insinuated his gambles didn’t pay off. However, to contextualize, that’s why I said to watch full Jordan games to understand his methodology of gambling on defense. Also, the NBA doesn’t track “Steal Attempts” or “Steal conversion %” per game. I’m sure Jordan would also be top 4 in that category as well, meaning he attempted a lot of steals but wasn’t always successful. But those blown steals don’t make the curated UA-cam clips. I saw Jordan play, live and in person, from 1987-1991. So I’m not saying this from an armchair in retrospect. I saw it.
@@ian_ford MJ was able to recover due to his quickness and footwork. Yes, there were moments when he would completely blow it, but more times than not, he would either steal the ball, or make opponents commit turnovers.
An argument can be made that MJ was robbed of at least an All-Defensive 2nd Team selection in 1986-87 likely due to his offense (37.1 ppg) overshadowing his defense. That was the year in which he became the the first player in NBA history to accumulate 200+ steals w/ 100+ blocks in a season since both stats were recorded. He repeated that same feat in 1987-88 and became the league's DPOY. Another thing to keep in mind is that the 1984 draft was filled w/ some of the greatest stealers of all time. Hence, MJ was in a yearly race against A. Robertson (all-time spg leader, one-time DPOY) & Stockton (all-time total steals leader) for the steals title. Yes, stats aren't everything on defense, but they're still something especially when they're multiple record-breakers.
I always view defending in two ways. Outside Defender and Inside Defender. The strong point about Jordan is that he does both side to the point he's also blocking/harassing/stealing even from Centers. That's how outrageous his defense is. It's like he's a loose dog running towards you for a big bite.
I’m a huge MJ fan. I’ve never heard any fan say he’s the greatest defender of all time. I guess I don’t visit the sites where people say this lol. He was a great on ball defender when he actually did it. Later in his career he picked his moments. But he knew he had Scottie to cover for him when he gambled. That’s what made them such a great defensive presence. The complimented each other so well. Watching them play defense at the end of a close game was something to see.
@@manimostofi I think he is one of the best if not the best 2 way player. Everyone knows he’s tied with 9 first team defensive selections. What they don’t say is it would have been 11 if he didn’t retire the first time. Add 2 more scoring titles as well. That’s if he didn’t have any major injuries. Considering his durability as a player, that is a safe bet.
He always had guys behind him to make those risky plays, Grant Harper or Rodman were always protecting the paint and pippen locking the other star down. Greatest of all time as a defender I’m not sure he had teammates that could argue that spot too but absolutely the greatest all around individual talent ever. I don’t think anyone can argue he has a better offensive bag but damn his defense was great too. Number 1 overall offense, top 5 defense all time. Still not my overall goat but he’s right there for obvious reasons
Michael Jordan Career Resume - 6× NBA champion (1991-1993, 1996-1998) - 6× NBA Finals MVP (1991-1993, 1996-1998) - 5× NBA Most Valuable Player (1988, 1991, 1992, 1996, 1998) - 14× NBA All-Star (1985-1993, 1996-1998, 2002, 2003) - 3× NBA All-Star Game MVP (1988, 1996, 1998) - 10× All-NBA First Team (1987-1993, 1996-1998) - All-NBA Second Team (1985) - NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1988) - 9× NBA All-Defensive First Team (1988-1993, 1996-1998) - NBA Rookie of the Year (1985) - NBA All-Rookie First Team (1985) - 10× NBA scoring champion (1987-1993, 1996-1998) - 3× NBA steals leader (1988, 1990, 1993) - 2× NBA Slam Dunk Contest champion (1987, 1988) - No. 23 retired by Chicago Bulls - No. 23 retired by Miami Heat - 3× AP Athlete of the Year (1991-1993) - Sports Illustrated Sportsperson of the Year (1991) - 2× IBM Award (1985, 1989) - NBA anniversary team (50th, 75th) Mike Jordan Career Regular Season Stats 38.3 MPG 30.1 PPG 6.2 RPG 5.3 APG 2.3 SPG 0.8 BPG 2.7 TO 32,292 Total Pts 6,672 total Reb 5,633 total ast 2514 total STLS 893 total BLKS 2924 total TO 1072 GP 706-366(65.9%) 49.7/32.7/83.5% 56.9 TS Mike Jordan career playoff stats 41.8 MPG 33.4 PPG 6.4 RPG 5.7 APG 2.1 SPG 0.9 BPG 48.7/33.2/82.8% 56.8 TS 3.1 TO 5,987 Total Pts 1152 Total Reb 1022 Total ast 376 total STLS 158 total BLK 546 total TO 179 GP 119-60(66.5%) Peak Micheal Jordan - 30.3 PPG - 6.2RPG - 4.9 APG - 2.2 SPG - 0.7 BPG - 2.4 TO - 49.5 FG% - 35.6 3P% - 82.7 FT% - 82 GP - 38.3 MPG Peak mike in Playoffs - 32.5 PPG - 6.2 RPG - 5.3 APG - 1.9 SPG - 0.8 BPG - 2.7 TO - 47.9 FG% - 34.0 3P% - 82.6 FT% - 41.4 MPG Michael Jordan is the only rookie in league history to lead his team in four (out of five) major statistics. Jordan led the 1984-85 Bulls in scoring (28.2), rebounding (6.5), assists (5.9), and steals (2.4). During his tenure with the Bulls, Michael Jordan faced 983 opponents. He outscored 982 of them. The only player who outscored Jordan was Allen Iverson (27.1 to 24.0). For more stats like this,highlights,lowlights, updates and debates follow my page @NUMBERSSTATFAX ON IG,TIKTOK🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
Michael Jordan is the best offensive player ever, and for his position he’s the best or at least in contention for the best defender… that’s legitimately crazy 😂
LeBron James is in the conversation for best offensive SF ever with Elgin Baylor, Bird, and Durant. He's not one of the 13 best defenders ever at his position. Dave DeBusschere, Bobby Jones, Michael Cooper, Rodman, Pippen, Bowen, Artest, Kirilenko, Prince, Battier, Iguodala, Kawhi, Jaren Jackson Jr.
@@thsu8I like how you picked players from every position from SG to C. Just proves how versatile Lebron is. And half of these don't even have an argument at being better defenders than Lebron
His popularity and stardom was impossible to miss there is a reason everyone says, "the michael jordan of (x)" nearly 30 years after his retirement. The only person on that level of stardom was michael jackson. No player since has been even close
Unless he played for the Warriors, he isn’t going to be THE guy winning all the rings like he was in the 90s. He’d still be popular but not as much without the inflated success
You have it completely opposite of what would've happened. Every loss ,poor shooting performance( and he had plenty of poor shooting performances) would be COMPLETELY OVER ANALYZED
Jonny I completely respect your take on this. I've always had a mindset to separate the centers from the guards because Centers always had a height advantage, and back in the day they used to just sit below the rim for blocks and rebounds, so I actually don't respect that as much as a guard having to chase down other guards for steals, or guards that were able to block centers on the weakside. You did make me think a little more on harder on this, because there is truth to some guys not getting enough credit for their defense because it doesn't show on the stats. I also watched the games and saw MJ influence steals and traps that other players got credit for that he was really responsible for, and he too did a lot of the things that don't show up on the stat sheet. Now I know this is purely about the DEFENSIVE side of the ball, however it must be said that MJ's defense still shined even though he exerted so much energy on offense, which undoubtedly took away from his defense had he concentrated more on defense like other regarded defenders like Dennis Rodman. The same could be said for his offense had he not put in so much effort on defense. That is why for me I still consider MJ the best defender, because he did so not as a tree in the middle of the paint, accumulating blocks and put back dunks on the regular. But because he was midsized and ran through screens, went through those trees, and still had the ability to reign defensive terror even on centers. Another defensive bi product of MJ's offense was that he'd get his man so tired playing defense against him, that he'd wear his opponents (including the double teammate) out. Not all of the greatest defenders in NBA history can do that, but MJ could.
@fullmetal1766 being top 3 in guards is very very different then being top 3 at center Because genuinly at the SG position I can only think of 3 really all time great defenders
Hes 1 in blocks and steals at his position and is 9 in all time defensive rating at SG the ones over are mostly defenders like tony allen not ofensive forces like MJ MJ is the best at ofense and defense at his position no doubt bout it And of course is not a top 10 all time cause that list is mostly for centers Big ben the dream jabbar russell mutombo howard duncan etc
Jordan RARELY guarded a HoF player throughout his career and the majority of his defensive assignments were trash. He had no business making the all defensive first team coming back from his first retirement.
Jordan guarded Drexler, Kobe, Gervin, Moncrief, Reggie Miller, Dumars, Mitch Richmond, McGrady, Dennis Johnson, Ray Allen, and Iverson. Who did you want him to guard?
@@RatedRex1 He still hardly ever matched with those dudes. It doesn't change the fact that the vast majority (key word here, majority) of this assignments were complete garbage. He never had a single season where he had to face the kinds of matchups that Kobe Bryant went up against in his one MVP year. Jordan made the All-Defensive First Team from 1988 and 1998 when the slot for shooting guards was so few in quality in a league that shot up to 29 teams, it's laughable.
Great video overall, but Jordan's on ball defense is being underrated here and Pippen's on ball defense is being overrated. Jordan and Pippen were very similar in their styles, Jordan was just a little more of a high IQ defensive player and made sure to try to make the best play to help his team. This meant he would make a decision to leave his man and make a play when he saw the chance, kind of like a quarterback calling an audible. As a leader, that was his responsibility and approach/privilege. While at times it did not pay off, and at certain points during his career he did this more than others, you would have to sift through the many many times he provided help at essentially zero risk to the team to find the moments when his decision led to a bucket for the other team. There are plenty of games when both Pippen and Jordan guarded the same player during stretches...Hardaway, Mullin, Hill, Magic...etc. In these games you can clearly see who Phil Jackson had the higher level confidence in for these one on one defensive matchups, it was MJ. I would say nearly across the board (if not totally across the board) if you watch these games it was clear that Jordan did a better job one on one on these superstars. Before anyone says Pip did better in the '91 finals on Magic, please stop and watch at least game 1 & 2 before commenting. Phil Jackson primarily made the switch because Jordan was in foul trouble, and they COULD NOT risk MJ fouling out.
🗣️OR WHEN MIKE WAS RESTING ON THE BENCH IN THAT ' 91 FINALS . PHIL W🟢ULD ALSO , PUT SCOTTIE ON MAGIC . MAN , GOOD TAKE . I FIRMLY AGREE . MJ IS THEE BEST DEFENDER EVER .>🎤 🏀🗑️
What do you think of the recent article showing that his DPOY case might have benefitted a lot from fake stats at home? Apparently he had double the stocks at home than he had on the road in that season
@@Jonathan-A.C. nobody with ball knowledge puts him there. He’s said to be worse than all of Scottie, Payton, Moncreif, Kawhi, LeBron, Allen, Frazier, Randolph, etc at defense and I really just don’t think he can be worse than all of them, maybe some, but for sure not a majority
Damn this is a great video. I 10/10 agree. If ur including bigs and wings Jordan may not b in the top 25 defensive players ever, but if ur talking strictly guards he’s gotta b top 5 at least. Guards just simply don’t have the defensive impact that bigs and wings do but ESPECIALLY bigs. It’s really unfair to compare the two
@@jonnyarnettthe ringer interview with analytics guys, said all defensive analytics available to the public are at best a 3/10, & not even nba teams have good defensive analytics in private. 😂. They all are also biased to favor big men, since they all use rebounds in the formula, and a big man is far closer to the rim, in eras that mostly attempted 2 pointers, to grab rebounds, than a shooting guard is, who’s probably told too leak out on fastbreaks by his coach, when there’s a possibility his teammates will get the ball.
@@jonnyarnett defensive win shares didn’t exist in the 1990s. I think that came out in 2004 in the basketball on paper book, or something like that. I was kind of with you, until you include analytics, that even analytics guys said aren’t good.
Looking at their stances and footwork, from sliding to crossing legs, you can see that MJ was a better defender than Pippen. They were just differently great. Pippen, to me, is the better team defender, since he seemed to read plays so well that he could quietly disrupt plays through how he positioned himself on the floor to deter players from even trying to make plays. He was also exceptional at denial.
I love how Jonny never self promotes his videos mid way, an example is the Sydney Moncrief mentions, he couldve slid a promotion to his recently made video about him but Jonny would just continue the video instead. I love content creators like you man, keep it up🔥🔥
@@d3adyoutubeaccount Based on what? No one considers him to be at the very top of the GOAT defenders list, he's normally in the 6th-15th range on most lists, which is fair to me. He had a significant defensive impact and was part of the reason the Bulls' defense was so good. Scottie was elite, Jordan was elite, Rodman was elite.
Jordan is top 10 all-time defender and top 3 perimeter defenders. The top 2 are: 1. Hakeem Olajuwon: #1 All-Time Shot Block Leader and #10 All-Time Steals. The next highest center in all-time steals is David Robinson at #64 2. Bill Russell: Elite Shot Blocker and Rebounder. I give Olajuwon the edge for #1 due to Russell having a size advantage during his era and the fact that Olajuwon could effectively switch and defend guards on the pick & roll.
The fact Jordan was a strong defender and the best on offense further proves his GOAT status. He did it on both ends. I don’t ever recall Jordan sitting out a game for load management, like what so many players and teams do today. And if he were sick, like his flu game in Utah, he suited up and played!
Great video and balanced assessment of MJ's defense, Jonny. I would say that he was a very good defender. Like you though, I cannot put him ahead of centers like Russell, Jabbar, etc. I think Moncrief has a solid case too, but I think MJ was one of the best guards at defense. Hope you have a great week :).
Is Jordan the greatest defender ever? No, he is however one of the great defenders. He took some risks but was also fundamentally sound. I would say Jordan is up there as a defender. The Jordanstans are as bad as the LeBron die-hards on that stuff. My take is Jordan is that rare kind of player that played at a high level on both ends of the floor.
I've never heard anyone say Jordan is the best defensive player of all time. He is a great defender and deserves respect for what he could do on that end of the floor. IMO he comfortably a top 5 gaurd on defense
Scottie was not a better defender than Jordan. Also, Scottie avg’d 2 spg and .8 bpg for his career, MJ 2.3 and .8…but I always say, Scottie did not have the same offensive responsibilities, so he exerted less energy on offense and was able to go all out defensively. Jordan was exerting equal amounts of energy on both sides and was still doing just as much if not more than Scottie defensively.
If SPG and BPG are your only metrics to evaluate someone's defense that result is gonna be terribly wrong. I'll give you two players: Player A: 1.6 SPG, 1.0 BPG, 2.8 PF (Personal fouls) Player B: 1.2 SPG, 0.8 BPG, 3.1 PF Player A also carries a significantly larger offensive load (31 PPG vs 8 PPG). Player A plays slightly more minutes (35 vs 31), but the difference isn't significant enough to cause a change as the results remain similar in per36 stats. In case you haven't guessed by now, player A is 22-23 Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, who has never sniffed an All-D team, while player B is 22-23 Draymond Green, a member of the 22-23 All-D 2nd team and a former DPOY. While Draymond Green is by far the superior defender, SGA looks better on defense through box score, which is extremely misleading. The truth is, Jordan often gambled for the extra .3 SPG, and although those steals do often produce fast break offense, misses do happen frequently and this leads to a 4-on-5 for the Bulls where they suffer a man disadvantage. Scottie Pippen was the better defender. He was significantly better off-ball as Jordan occasionally fell asleep or was caught ball-watching, and Pippen was just as good on-ball, maintaining better defense at the cost of defensive playmaking (Forcing turnovers).
@@Time_Lapse_Master. well, MJ’s defensive box +/- is higher than Pippen’s and while Pippen has the slightly lower defensive rating, again, MJ had more responsibilities offensively and a higher usage rate, which meant he was exerting more energy. The metrics, the eye test, and the stats all suggest Jordan was better than Pippen. Had he and Pippen used an equal amount of energy offensively, we would have probably MJ’s numbers be better by a decent margin.
@@Time_Lapse_Master. also, Pippen played more games than MJ career wise, and played more games specifically in his prime than Jordan did in his. When you just look at total defensive win shares, Scottie edges MJ out by 3.2. But when divide each total by the number of games, Jordan earned a higher rate of win shares defensively per game than Scottie. There will never be an exact science to breakdown defense, but using all of this along with again, the context of responsibility each player had offensively and defensively, there’s no real way to say Scottie was better defensively. He was more versatile because he was bigger and had more length, but he was not a better pure defender than Jordan, nor was he better in his role defensively than Jordan was in his.
@@johnb3898 Is the tiny Terry Rozier better at offense than the giant Yao Ming? Probably. Does that make Terry the better player? Hell no. Just because pound-for-pound someone's superior doesn't mean that they're actually superior. Scottie was longer, which makes the difference. An advantage that doesn't require skill is still an advantage. That's the same thing with your argument with offensive load. Yes, Jordan would be better defensively if he wasn't carrying huge loads as the best offensive player in the league, but the fact was that he carried those load and was worse defensively than Pippen. Ignoring what actually happened and forming a hypothesis on what could've happened if something happened didn't happen is the purest form of stupidity.
@@Time_Lapse_Master. again all the metrics state that Jordan was better. I said he was better while doing more, which means he would’ve been even more discernibly better if he and Pip shared the same responsibilities on offense and exerted the same energy. I’m not the one ignoring facts, it’s you. But 👍🏾
Dominated on both ends of the floor: Michael Jordan owns the record for most scoring titles in NBA history with a total of 10. The more impressive part is how dominant he was on defense while putting up the most points per game in the history of the NBA. Unfortunately, your analysis failed miserably. I think that jealousy is a sickness on your part.
Jordan isn’t the best defender of all time, but he’s at least top 10 perimeter defenders ever. From fundamental stand point he is perfect, from his stance to chopping his feet during his defensive slides. He was elite at playing the passing lanes, elite as a shot blocking guard and had great defensive awareness. He also had a high motor at least in his early years. He picked and chose more when he got older.
Nope, he is top 10 defender of all time, considering all the other defenders, not just perimeter. If we talk only about perimeter defense, he is probably top 5.
@hristijandimitrovski8664 top 10 all Time you on Firstly rim protection >>>>>> perimeter defense Guarding inefficient shots (Remember this is the 80-90s perimeter offense vs guarding the most valuable shots in basketball) He doesn't beat out any of these players Bill,wilt,hakeem,kevin,ben,dikembo,nate Thurmond, bucks kareem, David Robinson, sha (Shaq literally made teams average less shots per game in the paint), Dennis rodman, gianis etc Literally any how defensive bigman>Any guards like mj
Michael “Air” Jordan had an incredible first step, which allowed him to “launch” like a rocket to shoot a basket or rise higher than the defender to shoot over him. That ability also allowed him to steal a lot, when he jumped into the passing lanes and got the ball it was because the other players didn't think he was at a distance where he could intercept it. Michael Jordan gambled more than other defenders not because he was careless, but because he knew he could get the ball when other players couldn't. Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman (and before him Horace Grant), all-time great defenders, did not defend like him because 1. They defended primarily on the inside while Jordan defended on the outside. 2. They didn't have that first step (no other player did), so they wouldn't bet on reaching a ball they knew they couldn't reach. Jordan stealing the ball in passing lanes is like Victor Wembanyama blocking, players are in awe that he can get to them, Jordan was like that. You cannot ask a player to not do what only he can do.
If heen a 9X 1st team all defense & DPOY along with been 4th alltime in steals & 2nd among guards all-time in blocks. Also compiled 200 steals & 100 blocks 2X in one season is overrated, then he's definitely overrated.
Nobody recognizes that because that's a ludicrous thing to say. He wasn't even 50% of the defender that Jordan was, which is why he never made a single 1st defensive team.
Unlike Jordan, Bird DID lead the league in defensive win shares-- FOUR TIMES. Also got 2nd place 2x (Jordan peaked at #2, one time). Bird is incredibly under-rated as a defender.
@@phillipschuman4307 Jordan led guards in DWS 7 times. You must not understand the statistic if you don’t understand why guards never lead the league in it, lmao.
It doesn't hurt that ge had Scottie Pippen later in his career that he was able to gamble in the passing lanes to get steals to go along with his great shot blocking awareness
What is not mentioned is that much of Michael Jordan's defensive prowness was done in tandom with Scottie Pippen. From personal experience playing basketball, you cannot have multiple players taking the risk that Jordan was accustomed to taking on defense. You need players like Pippen and Rodman to smother and frustrate the oppenent in tandem with Jordan to help force turnovers. The evidence for this is that Jordan did not recieve his first All-Defensive team selection until Scottie Pippen's rookie year in the 1987-1988 season. From there, the rest of his First-team all defensive selections were with the Bulls with Pippen and later Rodman as teammates.
That's not evidence of anything except you don't know what you're talking about. The year before Pippen arrived, Jordan has one of only two (both by him) seasons for a guard with over 200 steals and over 100 blocks, averaging 2.9 SPG and 1.5 BPG, only slightly behind his averages the next year when he would be awarded the DPOY. He should have won it both years. And his defense was absolutely incredible even in his rookie season - he inarguably should have been First Team All Defense in 1984-85 and in 86-87 (should have won DPOY as well).
Regarding MJ's gambling on defence. I know everyone called it gambling, or taking chances, however, MJ was quick enough and fast enough to recover after a bad defensive gamble. And the main thing was, he knew it, and was confident about it. I think it is unfair to say that MJ's stats were better because he was taking more risks on defence. No, his stats on defence were better because he had unbelievable defensive perception to know when to gamble or when not to. Reading an offensive play is part of the greatness. That's why we all love Kobe's Detail series. MJ didn't come to the game and decided to take chances on defence, he watched hours of film to know what opponents like to do, and what the plays are. I'm not saying MJ is the greatest defender ever, but he should be considered as one of the greatest defenders for sure.
Love yr content. I do believe Jordan was a incredible defender although i do think Pippen was the better defender overall but Jordan was a beast on both ends of the court
I think guards as a whole are overrated as defenders. Like no guard is a top 10 defender ever. None of the guards who won DPOY deserved to win. Rim protecting big men are just more impactful on that end because they erase all 5 positions from scoring the most frequent and most efficient shots in basketball. That’s going to help one’s team defense more than locking up one guard on the perimeter.
That also makes it easier for guards to make it on the All-Defensive Team. The voters are required to select guards, not necessarily the top 10 defenders in the NBA.
jordan deserved it tho thats why you dont here nobody saying it was a snub because he deserved it also centers are overatted by that logic because they cant play perimenter defesne so stop it@@roundtable3501
@@a-a-rondavis9438 Yeah it does, but it doesn’t matter over raw Defensive impact, which is why Centers or at best PF’s dominate DPOY, and should. You can give respect to some amazing Guard Defenders by having them in the DPOY conversation, but I think they should, with very little exception (say, MJ or GP or maybe Sidney) be given it
Jordan is never an overrated defender if I recall he’s the only guard to record over 200 steals and 100 blocks in multiple seasons So yeah he’s not overrated 🤷🏿♂️
To some extent it's like arguing about the prettiest painting in the museum. Defense is different for a big man and a guard. They don't do the same things. Let's call him the best defensive guard and keep it moving.
So if you can handcheck James Harden would be a great defender? This comment is beyond stupid. If you think the ability to handcheck was the reason Jordan was a great defender then you obviously didn't watch him and more importantly don't know anything about basketball
@@kaminsod4077that's just speculation and assuming that modern players couldn't adapt. It's the same logic people use when they say that players from other eras wouldn't be able to adapt to modern basketball. Great players would be great in any era.
It takes way more than been able to handcheck someone to be a great defender. If that's all it took to be a great defender then every player from Jordan's era would be considered a great defender but they aren't.
“And” my guy? Imma say no. There’s an equally amount of push back saying that Scottie heavily picked up his slack. Also: I won’t put MJ at the top 10 Overall. Too many bigs that would fill out that spot. I got Ben #1. Just out of sheer personal bias. Then you’re gonna slot in the greats like Bill Russell, Hakeem, Kareem, Mutombo, Rodman, Mark Eaton, Dwight, Gobert, Mourning… then I’ll even put Scottie above him. Although i can see them as somewhat interchangeable because I believe Scottie had better chances at defending due to his height and position, and not strictly based on skill alone. And I’ll have to put Sydney Moncrief ahead of him in that list too.
Jordan was both an offensi e Juggernaut & a Lockdown defender simultaneously. One sequence puts this argument in perspective for me. In the final moments of his last finals appearance. He got the steal and hit the game winning shot in the final moments of a closeout game for a 3-peat. Time and time again...Ive seen him take on the challenge of guarding the hot/best player in a game when the team needed a stop. He was undoubtedly the best player on both ends when he played. That makes him the best perimeter defender ever in my opinion. ...Not best defender ever but perimeter player. Or at the very least 2-way guard which is the most impressive due to the energy exerted on both ends. He was a nightmare to have to deal w/.
I used to think the same about Bigs consider their frequent last defense but a perimeter defender who stops their man from even getting to the hoop to allow for those block opportunities deserves consideration since those stats do not exist like traditional Big man defensive stats. It's possible that with new tech like Synergy one day being used on past games we will have stats that quantify player stops due to not only steals and blocks but missed shots & forced passes aka making their man give up the ball as a result of defensive pressure. For most Bigs during Jordan's era if their man got the ball down low it was going up so I think perimeter players would benefit from those stats. Player tracking is expanding so I think this will be possible sooner than later.
MJ is probably a top 10 defender of all time for me. Definitely a top 3 perimeter defender of all time alongside with Moncrief and Payton. Some other names I would put in all time top 10 defensive list are mostly centers, starting with Russell, Wilt and Hakeem. I would also slide Rodman in aswell thanks to his versatility. When younger he was a perimeter menace and after getting older he was an inside menace.
MJ is not a Top-10 defender... Payton, Moncrief, Leonard, Pippen, Rodman, Green, Duncan, Russell, Olajuwon, Chamberlain, Wallace, Mutombo. That's 12 right there that I would EASILY take over MJ, and there's plenty of guys who are arguable. Cooper, Dennis Johnson, Bruce Bowen, CP3, LeBron, Gobert, Davis just to say a few
@@Time_Lapse_Master. I have some serious issues to take you seriously if you really claim Draymond Green to be better than Michael Jordan in any basketball related thing :D
@@Zamppa86 The Warriors defense is built around Draymond Green... And a bunch of great perimeter defenders called Klay Thompson, Andre Iguodala and Andrew Wiggins. The Bulls defense was built around Scottie Pippen... And a bunch of great perimeter defenders called Michael Jordan and Ron Harper. That's the difference. MJ excelled in the system. Draymond IS the system.
awards and accolades are sometimes a popularity contest too, so don't base everything on that. But MJ was an excellent wing defender, but as a guard I wouldn't expect him to try to guard centers or power forwards all that often other than missmatch switches. Also everyone gets dunked on and scored on no matter how good a defender one is. Also in MJ's day, NO ONE could guard Shaq one on one, it was literally impossible.
I disagree with your statement on centers. I mean, obviously rim protection makes a huge difference and affects all players on the floor, but there have been some players who have been able to affect the whole offensive team at different positions. Pippen was able to guard his men, help on drives and double team on offensive threats. Kevin Garnett could be on top of an all court press, and then come back to protect the paint. Payton could affect the whole flow of the game by suffocating your point guard. So yes, centers have an advantage, but you don't have to be a center to be the best defender in my opinion
The 1988 DPOY should have gone to Olajuwon who was ahead of Jordan on all defensive stats and more impactful as a defender too when measured by the drop in opposing center’s FG%
1987 DPOY should have gone to MJ. That was the first year he recorded 200 steals and 100 blocks. They gave the award to Michael Cooper, who came off the bench.
Good video. I don't recall anyone acting as if MJ had no weaknesses. He was an essential god, but mythological gods all have flaws, and pagan gods were only divine in one aspect (sun, oceans, harvest, etc.). MJ was built different, but even the least objective stans I have seen acknowledge his flaws. He was a subpar shooter from deep. His passing was excellent but not his primary elite skill. If anything, people argue that if he had the benefit of hindsight/ current day training, that there is nothing he would not have been able to do. This guy was a mad man. I agree with the aspect that on the court, he could do anything he set his focus toward at close to the highest of levels. Keep in mind he did everything listed in 15 seasons. 4 of those seasons were truncated by injury or retirement. He has a case for greatest wing defender, but it depends on what is most valued (isolated man-man coverage, help defense, etc.). Pippen was likely the better man-man defender of the two.
His passing/playmaking for others was absolutely elite. Look at his stint playing PG, 10 triple doubles in 11 games or something like that. Averaged a triple-double basically for 30 something games. Greatest passing 2-guard of all-time, easily. Also, he literally said he could be the best three-point shooter in the game but he didn't practice it, didn't want to - which makes perfect sense for the time he played in, when it was a little used shot. He barely attempted any - only 1.7 per game - and in the only three seasons he attempted 3 or more per game, he shot .376, .374 and .425 from 3. He would have been a 3 point God if he wanted to be - this is evidenced by his incredible mid-range game and his incredible FT shooting, both of which translate to having a great three point shot and are the barometers used by NBA scouts with young players today.
MJ is one of the greatest perimeter defenders ever. Yea Moncrief won a couple dpoy's but MJ proved to be better in high leverage moments hence the 6 championships.
Jonny, on your Wizards Jordan video, you said that he was the only significant addition for the team and he made the team a top 5 defensive team. An old Jordan who is not a center. I think that is good enough to rank him at least top 10 defensive players of all time.
Remember Jordan wasn’t only a defender, he was a offensive monster. And he mastered how to spend his time in game to be a top player in both end of the game. And been guard is very hard to pick and choose. That’s why he was a great defender without dropping his offensive game. Dennis Rodman was focused all the time in the defensive event.
Good Video As a SG hes top 3 id say maybe higher maybe lower but in terms of all time defenders at any position there are just to many great bigmen like wallace, rodmann, russel, wilt, kareem, hakeem, duncan, garnett, gobert and so on that due to their position were able to have great defensive impact
Michael Jordan is *underrated* as a defender in spite of his numerous accolades, because people still don't actually know how defensively dominant he was. Jerry West stated in a halftime interview during the 1996 Finals that Jordan's defense is overlooked because everyone only knows his offensive dominance. Jordan will never get the full credit he deserves for his defensive dominance. He was the one that guarded the best player most often, not Scottie. “Michael Jordan *always took it to a point that he wanted to guard the best player* even with myself, even if I start talking trash to him he would always tell Scottie Pippen ‘look, I’m taking Gary tonight’,” Payton told First Take. “He would always take the best basketball player..." - Former Defensive Player of the Year Gary Payton and with Ron Harper injured in the middle 3 games of the 1996 Finals, Jordan was the one against whom Payton mainly struggled offensively in that series, after a great first 3 rounds. Isiah Thomas, Clyde Drexler, Kevin Johnson, Gary Payton, John Stockton, Tim Hardaway, Penny Hardaway, Glen Rice, Steve Smith, Reggie Miller, Rod Strickland, all struggled much more when guarded by Jordan in Playoffs or Finals series. Players like Joe Dumars 1991 and Terry Porter 1992 had huge playoff averages entering series against the Bulls but got shut down against Jordan. Even in the instances where a perimeter player had better averages against the Bulls, they were mainly lighting up the PGs like Paxson, Vincent, Hodges, Armstrong, Kerr, Harper, or Brown and struggled with Jordan switching on to them. (Ricky Pierce 1990, Steve Smith 1992, Rod Strickland 1997) 1) Ricky Pierce had the highest scoring average of any 6th Man in NBA history (23 PPG) in 1989/90, but got shut down every time Jordan switched on to him in the 1990 Playoffs despite his great series averages. In Game 1 he had something like 9/10 FG to start the game and then Jordan switched on to him and he went 2/11 the rest of the way. He also got shut down vs Jordan individually in Game 2 and 4, Game 3 he played decently against Jordan's individual defense. 2) Steve Smith had 15 points in the 1st half of 1992 1st Round Game 3, none of them against Jordan. He had 3 points in the 2nd half, the only points he scored on Jordan the whole game. Jordan held him to 0 points in the final 5 minutes of the 3rd quarter and the final 5 minutes of the 4th quarter (Smith sat out the 4th quarter prior to that point). Game 2 he only had 11 points and almost all of them were after getting blown out by 20+. Game 1 was the only one where he succeeded against Jordan's defense. Jordan shut down Smith to 17.6 PPG on 32/31/83 shooting in their 1997 Playoffs rematch (after Smith's 20 PPG season), rotating with Harper and Pippen throughout the series. 3) Rod Strickland had 7 of his 9 4th quarter points against Kukoc and Kerr in 1997 1st Round Game 3, but only 2 on Jordan and missed the game-tying shot on Jordan. Jordan also shut him down in Game 1 and 2 while he lit up Kerr, Harper, and Kukoc. 4) Hersey Hawkins also had big stats against the Bulls in the 2nd round in 1990 and 1991 but struggled on Jordan, such as Game 1, 1990 - 12 points on 3/13 FG Game 4, 1990 - 2 points in the 4th quarter on Hodges, 0 point and 1 shot attempt in the final 6 minutes on Jordan Game 5, 1990 - 5 points in the 2nd half, 0 in the 2nd half on Jordan In the 1991 ECSF Hawkins had 2 big games of 29 and 30 points, but 10, 15, and 15 in the other 3. His stats for the series look solid, but he still was poor in 3 of 5 games, meaning Jordan shut him down the majority of the games of the series. Despite those 2 big games, he still had under 20 PPG for the series after 22.7 PPG on 51/50/90 shooting in the 1st Round and 22.1 PPG on 47/40/87 in the season He had big 1st Round series in 1990 and 1991 only to do much less against Jordan's individual defense. In 5 of 10 Bulls-Sixers playoff games he had 12, 11, 10, 15, and 15 points, and even in some of his big games like 26 points in Game 4 of 1990, Jordan still shut him down in the 4th quarter. And mostly scored on Hodges, Paxson, Armstrong. 5) Another good example is Reggie having 22 points on 7/12 FG through 3 quarters in Game 7, but 0 points and 1 shot attempt with Jordan switching on to him in the 4th quarter to win the series. Countless examples of Isiah, Drexler, etc. lighting up the other Bulls only for Jordan to switch on to them and shut it down. 6) The only reason people believe that Pippen guarded the best player is because of Game 2 of the 1991 Finals (and Jordan still primarily guarded Magic for the overall series). and Magic never "lit up" Jordan consistently. Jordan also held Magic to 0-0-0 on 0/2 FG with 2 TOs in the overtime of Game 3 with Pippen fouling out at the end of the 4th quarter. In Game 5 Magic shot 33% and Jordan contributed to all 6 of Magic's turnovers, as well as more that were not credited to Magic himself. Pippen himself admitted in the post Game 5 interview with Bob Costas that "Phil stuck with Mike" with regards to guarding Magic because "he was able to put a lot more pressure on him after Game 2" Even in that Game 2, Magic had 0 points and 3 assists when guarded by Jordan in the 8 minutes they matched up. In only a few series did Pippen mainly guard the best player - Dominique 1993, Penny 1996, Rice 1998, and Jordan still did the better job when guarding the latter 2 for shorter stretches. Penny had 1 total point on Jordan in the 1996 ECF on 0/5 FG and 4 or 5 TOs (can't remember exactly how many TOs), and Rice only made 1 FG on Jordan in the whole 1998 ECSF, I think it was 1/5 FG on Jordan plus some TOs. MJ only guarded Nique briefly in 1993, but still did well, albeit too small a sample to compare to Pippen. Some more myths to debunk 7) I've heard people claim Gerald Wilkins lit up Jordan, yet he averaged a lower PPG in 3/4 series against Jordan and a lower FG% in 4/4 series against Jordan compared to his season averages. In 1989 he had 21 PPG on 63% in the 1st Round then 13.5 PPG on 40% in the 2nd Round vs Jordan's Bulls. 1993 was the one series that he averaged more PPG, while he averaged 7.0 more MPG compared to the regular season (and still shot a worse FG%). 11.1 PPG on 45% in 26 MPG (1992/93 season) 15.3 PPG on 43% in 33 MPG (1993 ECSF) In his 22 point performance in Game 4 of the 1993 ECSF, he had only 7 points on Jordan and averaged 13 PPG on 33% in the other 3 games combined. Even with his good Game 4 (mostly on non-Jordan defenders) he had a mere 15.3 PPG on 43% in a 4-game sweep. 8) Another one I've heard is Alvin Robertson 1990 1st Round. He had one big game against Jordan in Game 3 of 38 points, but had 18.7 PPG on 46% in the other 3 combined. And as mentioned previously, Jordan was tasked with switching on to Ricky Pierce when he got hot, which then freed up Robertson to light up Paxson and Hodges with Jordan switching off of him (and vice-versa, when Jordan was on Robertson and off of Pierce, Pierce got hot such as starting Game 1 shooting 9/10 FG but then went 2/11 after Jordan switched on to him). 9) Another one I heard was John Starks, who scored a lower PPG in 4/4 series vs Jordan and shot a lower FG% in 3/4 of them. The one exception is when he shot 2.3% higher FG in the 1993 ECF compared to the regular season and still scored 2.3 fewer PPG. 17.5 PPG on 43% in 31 MPG (1992/93 season) 15.2 PPG on 45% in 40 MPG (1993 ECF) In the 1993 ECF, he had games of 12, 8, 8 and 14 points His only 2 out of 6 good games of 25 and 24 points saved his series averages. His TOpg also more than doubled from 2.2 to 4.7 His APG only went up from 5.1 to 5.7 and he was playing 9 more MPG compared to the season, yet still had much lower production in much more time. 10) and other ones I've heard were addressed previously; Ricky Pierce, Steve Smith, Rod Strickland. Noticeably, these series where they have big numbers on the Bulls weaker defenders are the minimum sample size of 3-4 games (Hawkins slightly more at 5 games). In other words, your best bet of an opposing perimeter player looking good against Jordan's Bulls was lighting up the weaker defenders and having a 1 game anomaly that skews your stats in the smallest sample size possible. 11) Another myth is that Isiah Thomas lit up Jordan. Isiah shot 39-41% in all 4 Bulls-Pistons series. The only game he actually lit up Jordan (out of 22 head to head playoff games) was Game 2 of the 1989 ECF. Even in Game 5 and 6 when he outscored Jordan, he shot in the low 40s against Jordan individually and feasted on Paxson and Hodges. In Jordan's DPOY season he also shut down Isiah during his 59-point performance on April 3, 1988. Isiah was 1/5 FG when guarded by Jordan including 0/3 on go-ahead/tying attempts with 30, 25, and 4 seconds left, the second of which was blocked by Jordan. There were also several TOs that Jordan forced on Isiah or on other Pistons as a result of his defense on Isiah such as denying the ball or wasting the shot clock. One TO in particular, he forced Isiah to give up the ball to Laimbeer with 7 seconds left tied at 110-110, then Laimbeer turned it over into Jordan's hands who made the game-winning FTs. Jordan also made Dominique miss a game-winning attempt in his DPOY season.
Jordan is in top 10 for me, top 13 at worst, and I don't think anyone seriously thinks he is the greatest defender. Overall he is properly rated unlike Kobe who is very overrated defender.
Fwiw among shooting guards MJ is: 1st in points per game 1st in blocks per game 3rd in steals per game 3rd in rebounds per game 4th in fg% 6th assists per game. Therefore yes, he's both a great defensive as well as great offensive player and the goat !!
This video along with the comment section is horrifyingly biased. No idea why I'm even here. BUT "9xs All Defensive selection" with be the 2nd best defensive guard and 4th best defensive player on your own team (96-99) while continually getting the praise for defense is insane.
This was actually discussed back in 90s with the topic of "overrated defenders". Some names like Stockton was part of the discussion because they weren't really good one-on-one defenders but with exceptionally high stats in steals. It was suggested that Jordan plays with a pure athleticism and instinct instead of fundamental. Still, criticize Jordan is considered as heresy so I will only referred this was the "discussion in 90s".
MJ was a top 5-10 defender all time! He was the leader of his teams who took on his identity. Now I may have Kawhi higher because he got 2 dpoy but there was a lot of MJ fatigue in the 90s. & I agree with your point when it comes to perimeter guys vs bigs. That’s why I think we should start ranking them separate all together. But bill russel is the Goat defender. He seemed to be a mix of Draymond & Rodman just more athletic
Up until Pippen's development, Jordan led both the lockdown defender and team defender roles that's how he was able to win DPOY. But as Pippen grew into an elite defender, Jordan focused more on the lockdown defense side of the game and handed over the team defense to Pippen. I think Jordan was better as a lockdown defender, and Pippen was better as an all around team defender. Phil Jackson also said that Jordan's lockdown defense is better, so Phil made Pippen initially guard the opposing swingman, and then if that didn't work, made Jordan guard him. (Ex: Iverson, Grant Hill, etc.) I've seen people talk about Jordan as one of the greatest defensive players of all time, but I've rarely seen them call him the greatest defender of all time. If it's the former, I don't think it's an overstatement.
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MJ is a top 10 defender of all time… Yes or no?
He’s top 5
He’s top 25 imo, there are too many big guys to be put ahead of him. He’s a top 3 perimeter defender tho
Top 3 wing defender...we need that latrell sprewell video. He was a beast in his prime.
Top 5 two way player historically.
Jordan is a top 5 perimeter defender of all Time
Here's something for you to think about when rating Jordan's defensive impact. Offensive players he guarded shot a lower fg%, took less shots, had more turnovers and their scoring average dropped when compared to other defenders, in addition to his blocks and steals. That should tell you how great he was defensively
🗣️THANK YOU , MAN . PE👤PLE KEEP IGN🚫RING ALL OF THAT .>🎤 🏀🗑️
I think any DEFENSIVE player of the year in history is gonna be elite at DEFENSE 😂😂
Also shaq. whose defense is often alluded to as being not that great but people just didn't go inside on him. Don't see it in the stat sheet but you see it in the game.
@@alanlee67 exactly. One of the many reasons basic box score stats don't tell the whole story.
Yeah I'm like are really trying to do this? This is really embarrassing lol.😂
Him being 6'6, a long wingspan and big hands while being lighting quick is what made him a great defensive player. And let's not rule out his competitiveness and wanting to win at all cost mind set. He even had his Bulls teams as top defensive teams in that era 😁 Jordan, Pippin, Rodman, and harper were so freaking good on defense, its why they won all the time. This Jordan character never cheated the fans..
This is the true test of the GOAT. Who made the fans happier and who made more fans happier.
There is only 1 GOAT... name is Michael Larry Ervin Jordan Bird Johnson. That is his full name.
He’s not 6’6”. He’s a short 6’5”.
@@ianmason20036’4 and 3/4
@@ianmason2003 If that is true, that makes what he's done even more impressive.
@@ianmason2003all you're doing is speaking through your dislike of the player it's obvious kid.
Jordan and Pippen were integral parts of the Johnny Bach's 'Doberman Defense'.
Jordan and Pippen were absolute marauders in the early 90s.
I think it’s impressive that his offensive ability didn’t completely overshadow what he did on D. He worked both ends. Guys knew he would be brutal to guard & they’d have difficulty scoring themselves.
originally, his offense did overshadow his defense. because of that, he focused even harder on defense, and dpoy was the result.
@@laz0ramatook the words right from under me champ
@@laz0rama🗣️REAL TALK .>🎤 🏀🗑️
He was snubbed of an All-Defensive Team selection in 1987.
During his playing days, Michael Jordan was also one of the best defenders in the league.
It was enough to cause NBA heavyweight Jerry West to say, ``Jordan's defensive ability was even stronger than his offensive ability.''
Even so, it is truly amazing that Jordan was selected to the All-NBA Defensive 1st Team nine times up until 1998, excluding the season in which he retired.
Jerry went even further than that. He called him the best defender in the league. I think he said that in 93.🤔
😆
He was a top 5 defensive guard, not a top 10 defender in the league.
I wish you would have included:
- Jordan got 9 all defense 1st teams in a limited amount of seasons
- His off ball defense was insane. Watch the 4th quarter of game 7 vs Pacers in 98.
- His timing and anticipation was crazy. A lot of times he jumped before the offensive player even left the floor.
All defense teams are overrated for guards. Perimeter defense is getting less important the further you look back in history.
@@antipro4483 How you rate it is up to you but the video says that others have more overall selections. But it leaves out this context. As a Bull Jordan was eligible for individual accolades only 11 times. Making an all defensive first team 9 times out of 11 is crazy.
"jumped before the offensive player even left the floor." is the definition of GAMBLING.
@@tech-no-logictech9743 i don't like the "less time" argument.
For example:
It may seem more impressive to make 9 all defense 1st teams in 10 season than making 11 in 20 seasons but if you are a franchise owner you will always pick the second guy simply because you get more defense overall (assuming you just have these two stats). Playing less is not a skill
@@antipro4483 That's a whole different topic overall. I am simply saying it should have been mentioned when it was said that others got more 2nd team selections.
MJ is not the greatest defender ever but is one of the best defenders ever while also being arguably the greatest offensive player ever. MJ is, without a doubt, the greatest 2-Way player ever. 💯🔥🐐
I think as a wing defender, etc., he had the talent and athleticism to be the best if that was his main focus. He did it as needed but he also had to score and play O. players like Rodman just mainly focused on defending and rebounding why they may get more nods.
I agree, the only other player I would say has an argument is Dream
Bill Russell was (and is) the best defender ever
Wilt says hi.
@@jrr3787 Wilt was (and is) the best offensive player ever.
Michael was an exceptional weakside defender and solid strongside defender because he had great fundamentals and didn't rely solely on athleticism. But watch a lot of his full games (not just curated UA-cam clips) and Jordan gambled a LOT on defense as well, particularly with passing lanes. But he usually wasn't reckless and would only pick and choose when to be more aggressive deflecting passes for steals.
4th all time in steals, 4th all time in SPG. Guess those gambles paid off.
@@ryanb2607 I never stated or insinuated his gambles didn’t pay off. However, to contextualize, that’s why I said to watch full Jordan games to understand his methodology of gambling on defense. Also, the NBA doesn’t track “Steal Attempts” or “Steal conversion %” per game. I’m sure Jordan would also be top 4 in that category as well, meaning he attempted a lot of steals but wasn’t always successful. But those blown steals don’t make the curated UA-cam clips. I saw Jordan play, live and in person, from 1987-1991. So I’m not saying this from an armchair in retrospect. I saw it.
@@ian_ford so did i. Saw Jordan play in person more than a dozen times. Easily the best defensive guard I’ve ever watched.
@@ian_ford MJ was able to recover due to his quickness and footwork. Yes, there were moments when he would completely blow it, but more times than not, he would either steal the ball, or make opponents commit turnovers.
@@ryanb2607 sidney moncrief betta
An argument can be made that MJ was robbed of at least an All-Defensive 2nd Team selection in 1986-87 likely due to his offense (37.1 ppg) overshadowing his defense. That was the year in which he became the the first player in NBA history to accumulate 200+ steals w/ 100+ blocks in a season since both stats were recorded. He repeated that same feat in 1987-88 and became the league's DPOY. Another thing to keep in mind is that the 1984 draft was filled w/ some of the greatest stealers of all time. Hence, MJ was in a yearly race against A. Robertson (all-time spg leader, one-time DPOY) & Stockton (all-time total steals leader) for the steals title. Yes, stats aren't everything on defense, but they're still something especially when they're multiple record-breakers.
I always view defending in two ways. Outside Defender and Inside Defender. The strong point about Jordan is that he does both side to the point he's also blocking/harassing/stealing even from Centers. That's how outrageous his defense is. It's like he's a loose dog running towards you for a big bite.
Bob Cousy called Mike the Tasmanian Devil on defense.
I’m a huge MJ fan. I’ve never heard any fan say he’s the greatest defender of all time. I guess I don’t visit the sites where people say this lol. He was a great on ball defender when he actually did it. Later in his career he picked his moments. But he knew he had Scottie to cover for him when he gambled. That’s what made them such a great defensive presence. The complimented each other so well. Watching them play defense at the end of a close game was something to see.
The bulls were a scary team on defence because of that. later Rodman joined and they became as scary as the Pistons, minus the violence.
I agree with you and nobody has ever said he was the greatest defender ever so this dude should provide sources before making up BS.
No one ever says that. What they do say is that he is the greatest two-way player which is not a crazy take.
@@manimostofi I think he is one of the best if not the best 2 way player. Everyone knows he’s tied with 9 first team defensive selections. What they don’t say is it would have been 11 if he didn’t retire the first time. Add 2 more scoring titles as well. That’s if he didn’t have any major injuries. Considering his durability as a player, that is a safe bet.
He always had guys behind him to make those risky plays, Grant Harper or Rodman were always protecting the paint and pippen locking the other star down. Greatest of all time as a defender I’m not sure he had teammates that could argue that spot too but absolutely the greatest all around individual talent ever. I don’t think anyone can argue he has a better offensive bag but damn his defense was great too. Number 1 overall offense, top 5 defense all time. Still not my overall goat but he’s right there for obvious reasons
Michael Jordan Career Resume
- 6× NBA champion (1991-1993, 1996-1998)
- 6× NBA Finals MVP (1991-1993, 1996-1998)
- 5× NBA Most Valuable Player (1988, 1991, 1992, 1996, 1998)
- 14× NBA All-Star (1985-1993, 1996-1998, 2002, 2003)
- 3× NBA All-Star Game MVP (1988, 1996, 1998)
- 10× All-NBA First Team (1987-1993, 1996-1998)
- All-NBA Second Team (1985)
- NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1988)
- 9× NBA All-Defensive First Team (1988-1993, 1996-1998)
- NBA Rookie of the Year (1985)
- NBA All-Rookie First Team (1985)
- 10× NBA scoring champion (1987-1993, 1996-1998)
- 3× NBA steals leader (1988, 1990, 1993)
- 2× NBA Slam Dunk Contest champion (1987, 1988)
- No. 23 retired by Chicago Bulls
- No. 23 retired by Miami Heat
- 3× AP Athlete of the Year (1991-1993)
- Sports Illustrated Sportsperson of the Year (1991)
- 2× IBM Award (1985, 1989)
- NBA anniversary team (50th, 75th)
Mike Jordan Career Regular Season Stats
38.3 MPG
30.1 PPG
6.2 RPG
5.3 APG
2.3 SPG
0.8 BPG
2.7 TO
32,292 Total Pts
6,672 total Reb
5,633 total ast
2514 total STLS
893 total BLKS
2924 total TO
1072 GP
706-366(65.9%)
49.7/32.7/83.5%
56.9 TS
Mike Jordan career playoff stats
41.8 MPG
33.4 PPG
6.4 RPG
5.7 APG
2.1 SPG
0.9 BPG
48.7/33.2/82.8%
56.8 TS
3.1 TO
5,987 Total Pts
1152 Total Reb
1022 Total ast
376 total STLS
158 total BLK
546 total TO
179 GP
119-60(66.5%)
Peak Micheal Jordan
- 30.3 PPG
- 6.2RPG
- 4.9 APG
- 2.2 SPG
- 0.7 BPG
- 2.4 TO
- 49.5 FG%
- 35.6 3P%
- 82.7 FT%
- 82 GP
- 38.3 MPG
Peak mike in Playoffs
- 32.5 PPG
- 6.2 RPG
- 5.3 APG
- 1.9 SPG
- 0.8 BPG
- 2.7 TO
- 47.9 FG%
- 34.0 3P%
- 82.6 FT%
- 41.4 MPG
Michael Jordan is the only rookie in league history to lead his team in four (out of five) major statistics. Jordan led the 1984-85 Bulls in scoring (28.2), rebounding (6.5), assists (5.9), and steals (2.4).
During his tenure with the Bulls, Michael Jordan faced 983 opponents. He outscored 982 of them. The only player who outscored Jordan was Allen Iverson (27.1 to 24.0).
For more stats like this,highlights,lowlights, updates and debates follow my page @NUMBERSSTATFAX ON IG,TIKTOK🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
We get it, your throat is worn out.
Kobe outscored him too, go check their stats of their duels, Kobe averaged slightly more points than Jordan
Which seasons do you consider to be “peak Mike”?
Allen Iverson outscored Jordan 🤯🤯🤯
that’s awesome. love AI
@@a-a-rondavis9438 o ok
Michael Jordan is the best offensive player ever, and for his position he’s the best or at least in contention for the best defender… that’s legitimately crazy 😂
Exactly 😂
6:53 - look at the pick his head is above the rim nd he’s holding the underside of the backboard 😂
Literally terrorized people on defense
LeBron James is in the conversation for best offensive SF ever with Elgin Baylor, Bird, and Durant. He's not one of the 13 best defenders ever at his position. Dave DeBusschere, Bobby Jones, Michael Cooper, Rodman, Pippen, Bowen, Artest, Kirilenko, Prince, Battier, Iguodala, Kawhi, Jaren Jackson Jr.
@@thsu8I like how you picked players from every position from SG to C. Just proves how versatile Lebron is. And half of these don't even have an argument at being better defenders than Lebron
Imagine his popularity and stardom if he played today with social media. I can't even imagine based off his popularity without it in the 80s/90s
His popularity and stardom was impossible to miss there is a reason everyone says, "the michael jordan of (x)" nearly 30 years after his retirement. The only person on that level of stardom was michael jackson. No player since has been even close
Unless he played for the Warriors, he isn’t going to be THE guy winning all the rings like he was in the 90s.
He’d still be popular but not as much without the inflated success
You have it completely opposite of what would've happened. Every loss ,poor shooting performance( and he had plenty of poor shooting performances) would be COMPLETELY OVER ANALYZED
"inflated success" lmfao smh@@deepwaterrehab7685
He'd likely be viewed exactly how we view LeBron today. We are in an exceptionally negative Media Generation.
Jonny I completely respect your take on this. I've always had a mindset to separate the centers from the guards because Centers always had a height advantage, and back in the day they used to just sit below the rim for blocks and rebounds, so I actually don't respect that as much as a guard having to chase down other guards for steals, or guards that were able to block centers on the weakside. You did make me think a little more on harder on this, because there is truth to some guys not getting enough credit for their defense because it doesn't show on the stats. I also watched the games and saw MJ influence steals and traps that other players got credit for that he was really responsible for, and he too did a lot of the things that don't show up on the stat sheet.
Now I know this is purely about the DEFENSIVE side of the ball, however it must be said that MJ's defense still shined even though he exerted so much energy on offense, which undoubtedly took away from his defense had he concentrated more on defense like other regarded defenders like Dennis Rodman. The same could be said for his offense had he not put in so much effort on defense. That is why for me I still consider MJ the best defender, because he did so not as a tree in the middle of the paint, accumulating blocks and put back dunks on the regular. But because he was midsized and ran through screens, went through those trees, and still had the ability to reign defensive terror even on centers.
Another defensive bi product of MJ's offense was that he'd get his man so tired playing defense against him, that he'd wear his opponents (including the double teammate) out. Not all of the greatest defenders in NBA history can do that, but MJ could.
excellent break down, I definitely agree!
he has a case as a great guard defender but not in general a goat defender.For me he is a top 3 in his position
If he's top 3 at his position he's an all time elite defender lol
@fullmetal1766 being top 3 in guards is very very different then being top 3 at center
Because genuinly at the SG position I can only think of 3 really all time great defenders
Hes 1 in blocks and steals at his position and is 9 in all time defensive rating at SG the ones over are mostly defenders like tony allen not ofensive forces like MJ
MJ is the best at ofense and defense at his position no doubt bout it
And of course is not a top 10 all time cause that list is mostly for centers
Big ben the dream jabbar russell mutombo howard duncan etc
@@fullmetal1766🗣️🎯EXACTLY ! L😂L !!! SMH .>🎤 🏀🗑️
@@Manolo8988I think D Wade is the no.1 SG on blocks
Jordan RARELY guarded a HoF player throughout his career and the majority of his defensive assignments were trash. He had no business making the all defensive first team coming back from his first retirement.
Jordan guarded Drexler, Kobe, Gervin, Moncrief, Reggie Miller, Dumars, Mitch Richmond, McGrady, Dennis Johnson, Ray Allen, and Iverson. Who did you want him to guard?
@@RatedRex1 He still hardly ever matched with those dudes. It doesn't change the fact that the vast majority (key word here, majority) of this assignments were complete garbage. He never had a single season where he had to face the kinds of matchups that Kobe Bryant went up against in his one MVP year. Jordan made the All-Defensive First Team from 1988 and 1998 when the slot for shooting guards was so few in quality in a league that shot up to 29 teams, it's laughable.
Great video overall, but Jordan's on ball defense is being underrated here and Pippen's on ball defense is being overrated. Jordan and Pippen were very similar in their styles, Jordan was just a little more of a high IQ defensive player and made sure to try to make the best play to help his team. This meant he would make a decision to leave his man and make a play when he saw the chance, kind of like a quarterback calling an audible. As a leader, that was his responsibility and approach/privilege. While at times it did not pay off, and at certain points during his career he did this more than others, you would have to sift through the many many times he provided help at essentially zero risk to the team to find the moments when his decision led to a bucket for the other team.
There are plenty of games when both Pippen and Jordan guarded the same player during stretches...Hardaway, Mullin, Hill, Magic...etc. In these games you can clearly see who Phil Jackson had the higher level confidence in for these one on one defensive matchups, it was MJ. I would say nearly across the board (if not totally across the board) if you watch these games it was clear that Jordan did a better job one on one on these superstars.
Before anyone says Pip did better in the '91 finals on Magic, please stop and watch at least game 1 & 2 before commenting. Phil Jackson primarily made the switch because Jordan was in foul trouble, and they COULD NOT risk MJ fouling out.
🗣️OR WHEN MIKE WAS RESTING ON THE BENCH IN THAT ' 91 FINALS . PHIL W🟢ULD ALSO , PUT SCOTTIE ON MAGIC . MAN , GOOD TAKE . I FIRMLY AGREE . MJ IS THEE BEST DEFENDER EVER .>🎤 🏀🗑️
@@GABEMOORE533lmaooo not even the best guard defender ever
@@jemirtoussaint4940name a better one then. He’s a better version of Gary Payton
😆
You just proved why Jordan is an overrated defender
What do you think of the recent article showing that his DPOY case might have benefitted a lot from fake stats at home? Apparently he had double the stocks at home than he had on the road in that season
He is NOT THE GOAT on the defensive end. But he's in DEFINITELY one of the guards if you construct an all two way team.
He definitely is one of the guards. True
Yes and Scottie was the perfect defender to be by his side
🤔
Never knew how much MJ gambled on defense until I saw Thinking Basketball's breakdown of Jordan's defense
No, if anything he’s underrated
Stop
What are people normally claiming he’s at in order for you to say he’s underrated?
It’s damn sure not him belonging in the GOAT Defender convo
@@Jonathan-A.C. nobody with ball knowledge puts him there. He’s said to be worse than all of Scottie, Payton, Moncreif, Kawhi, LeBron, Allen, Frazier, Randolph, etc at defense and I really just don’t think he can be worse than all of them, maybe some, but for sure not a majority
@@quackmemes5410HAHAH RAY ALLEN A BETTER DEFENDER THAN JORDAN
@@babysaleem1assuming he means Tony Allen, not Ray Allen lmao
Damn this is a great video. I 10/10 agree. If ur including bigs and wings Jordan may not b in the top 25 defensive players ever, but if ur talking strictly guards he’s gotta b top 5 at least. Guards just simply don’t have the defensive impact that bigs and wings do but ESPECIALLY bigs. It’s really unfair to compare the two
Michael Jordan is not AND overrated defender
LMAO fixed 😅
@@jonnyarnettCould someone who played the four have an argument for being the best defender ever?
@@jonnyarnettthe ringer interview with analytics guys, said all defensive analytics available to the public are at best a 3/10, & not even nba teams have good defensive analytics in private. 😂. They all are also biased to favor big men, since they all use rebounds in the formula, and a big man is far closer to the rim, in eras that mostly attempted 2 pointers, to grab rebounds, than a shooting guard is, who’s probably told too leak out on fastbreaks by his coach, when there’s a possibility his teammates will get the ball.
@@jonnyarnett defensive win shares didn’t exist in the 1990s. I think that came out in 2004 in the basketball on paper book, or something like that. I was kind of with you, until you include analytics, that even analytics guys said aren’t good.
@@jonnyarnettRussell didn’t have to worry about Wilt playing bully ball like Shaq, since that was illegal back then. What a relief for Russell.
All of that visual material you got from your dad make possible to understand your point while watching it.
I fucking love it.
Looking at their stances and footwork, from sliding to crossing legs, you can see that MJ was a better defender than Pippen. They were just differently great. Pippen, to me, is the better team defender, since he seemed to read plays so well that he could quietly disrupt plays through how he positioned himself on the floor to deter players from even trying to make plays. He was also exceptional at denial.
I love how Jonny never self promotes his videos mid way, an example is the Sydney Moncrief mentions, he couldve slid a promotion to his recently made video about him but Jonny would just continue the video instead. I love content creators like you man, keep it up🔥🔥
He's fairly rated as a defender. Definitely not overrated. He's as good as everyone says he was.
😴
@@THEREALLORDJ 🦔
He’s an overrated defender. Stop it.
@@d3adyoutubeaccount Based on what? No one considers him to be at the very top of the GOAT defenders list, he's normally in the 6th-15th range on most lists, which is fair to me. He had a significant defensive impact and was part of the reason the Bulls' defense was so good. Scottie was elite, Jordan was elite, Rodman was elite.
@@ant4613 It’s not fair for him to be 6-15th lol. He’s after 20.
Jordan is top 10 all-time defender and top 3 perimeter defenders.
The top 2 are:
1. Hakeem Olajuwon: #1 All-Time Shot Block Leader and #10 All-Time Steals. The next highest center in all-time steals is David Robinson at #64
2. Bill Russell: Elite Shot Blocker and Rebounder.
I give Olajuwon the edge for #1 due to Russell having a size advantage during his era and the fact that Olajuwon could effectively switch and defend guards on the pick & roll.
Overrated
The fact Jordan was a strong defender and the best on offense further proves his GOAT status. He did it on both ends. I don’t ever recall Jordan sitting out a game for load management, like what so many players and teams do today. And if he were sick, like his flu game in Utah, he suited up and played!
Definitely gives him a huge case for goat. Also that wasn’t the flu it was food poisoning
@@tylerrogers3530You’re right! Thanks for the correction. Wasn’t it pizza or something that was delivered to his room?
@@Sketch_0123 Yeah it was pizza
Definitely Top 20. You can talk where exactly in that mix he deserves to land, but I can't think of too many more I'd take over Michael (defensively).
Great video and balanced assessment of MJ's defense, Jonny. I would say that he was a very good defender. Like you though, I cannot put him ahead of centers like Russell, Jabbar, etc. I think Moncrief has a solid case too, but I think MJ was one of the best guards at defense.
Hope you have a great week :).
Not one of the best, Jordan was the best defensive guard
@@hristijandimitrovski8664 he was definitely not the best.
@@mafi000 tell me better guard defensively than Jordan???
Jabbar was not a defensive juggernaut...
@@Johnnybur he was incredible defender in his time. If blocking shots were involved earlier, Jabbar would have even more defensive teams than now.
MJ is 4th all-time in career steals. That accomplishment alone solidy him as one of the best all-time defender.
Is Jordan the greatest defender ever? No, he is however one of the great defenders. He took some risks but was also fundamentally sound. I would say Jordan is up there as a defender. The Jordanstans are as bad as the LeBron die-hards on that stuff. My take is Jordan is that rare kind of player that played at a high level on both ends of the floor.
🙄
I've never heard anyone say Jordan is the best defensive player of all time. He is a great defender and deserves respect for what he could do on that end of the floor. IMO he comfortably a top 5 gaurd on defense
Scottie was not a better defender than Jordan. Also, Scottie avg’d 2 spg and .8 bpg for his career, MJ 2.3 and .8…but I always say, Scottie did not have the same offensive responsibilities, so he exerted less energy on offense and was able to go all out defensively.
Jordan was exerting equal amounts of energy on both sides and was still doing just as much if not more than Scottie defensively.
If SPG and BPG are your only metrics to evaluate someone's defense that result is gonna be terribly wrong. I'll give you two players:
Player A: 1.6 SPG, 1.0 BPG, 2.8 PF (Personal fouls)
Player B: 1.2 SPG, 0.8 BPG, 3.1 PF
Player A also carries a significantly larger offensive load (31 PPG vs 8 PPG).
Player A plays slightly more minutes (35 vs 31), but the difference isn't significant enough to cause a change as the results remain similar in per36 stats.
In case you haven't guessed by now, player A is 22-23 Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, who has never sniffed an All-D team, while player B is 22-23 Draymond Green, a member of the 22-23 All-D 2nd team and a former DPOY.
While Draymond Green is by far the superior defender, SGA looks better on defense through box score, which is extremely misleading.
The truth is, Jordan often gambled for the extra .3 SPG, and although those steals do often produce fast break offense, misses do happen frequently and this leads to a 4-on-5 for the Bulls where they suffer a man disadvantage.
Scottie Pippen was the better defender. He was significantly better off-ball as Jordan occasionally fell asleep or was caught ball-watching, and Pippen was just as good on-ball, maintaining better defense at the cost of defensive playmaking (Forcing turnovers).
@@Time_Lapse_Master. well, MJ’s defensive box +/- is higher than Pippen’s and while Pippen has the slightly lower defensive rating, again, MJ had more responsibilities offensively and a higher usage rate, which meant he was exerting more energy.
The metrics, the eye test, and the stats all suggest Jordan was better than Pippen. Had he and Pippen used an equal amount of energy offensively, we would have probably MJ’s numbers be better by a decent margin.
@@Time_Lapse_Master. also, Pippen played more games than MJ career wise, and played more games specifically in his prime than Jordan did in his.
When you just look at total defensive win shares, Scottie edges MJ out by 3.2. But when divide each total by the number of games, Jordan earned a higher rate of win shares defensively per game than Scottie.
There will never be an exact science to breakdown defense, but using all of this along with again, the context of responsibility each player had offensively and defensively, there’s no real way to say Scottie was better defensively.
He was more versatile because he was bigger and had more length, but he was not a better pure defender than Jordan, nor was he better in his role defensively than Jordan was in his.
@@johnb3898 Is the tiny Terry Rozier better at offense than the giant Yao Ming? Probably. Does that make Terry the better player? Hell no. Just because pound-for-pound someone's superior doesn't mean that they're actually superior. Scottie was longer, which makes the difference. An advantage that doesn't require skill is still an advantage.
That's the same thing with your argument with offensive load. Yes, Jordan would be better defensively if he wasn't carrying huge loads as the best offensive player in the league, but the fact was that he carried those load and was worse defensively than Pippen. Ignoring what actually happened and forming a hypothesis on what could've happened if something happened didn't happen is the purest form of stupidity.
@@Time_Lapse_Master. again all the metrics state that Jordan was better. I said he was better while doing more, which means he would’ve been even more discernibly better if he and Pip shared the same responsibilities on offense and exerted the same energy.
I’m not the one ignoring facts, it’s you. But 👍🏾
Dominated on both ends of the floor: Michael Jordan owns the record for most scoring titles in NBA history with a total of 10. The more impressive part is how dominant he was on defense while putting up the most points per game in the history of the NBA. Unfortunately, your analysis failed miserably. I think that jealousy is a sickness on your part.
Lets say top 20. But that's with all positions.
Around the top 10 mark seems fair
Jordan isn’t the best defender of all time, but he’s at least top 10 perimeter defenders ever. From fundamental stand point he is perfect, from his stance to chopping his feet during his defensive slides. He was elite at playing the passing lanes, elite as a shot blocking guard and had great defensive awareness. He also had a high motor at least in his early years. He picked and chose more when he got older.
Nope, he is top 10 defender of all time, considering all the other defenders, not just perimeter. If we talk only about perimeter defense, he is probably top 5.
@hristijandimitrovski8664 top 10 all Time you on
Firstly rim protection >>>>>> perimeter defense
Guarding inefficient shots (Remember this is the 80-90s perimeter offense vs guarding the most valuable shots in basketball)
He doesn't beat out any of these players
Bill,wilt,hakeem,kevin,ben,dikembo,nate Thurmond, bucks kareem, David Robinson, sha (Shaq literally made teams average less shots per game in the paint), Dennis rodman, gianis etc
Literally any how defensive bigman>Any guards like mj
@@hristijandimitrovski8664he’s absolutely not a top 10 defender ever
To me the best defender and center is Hakeem, MJ at his position could be the best
Just wanna help the video 🎉
Michael “Air” Jordan had an incredible first step, which allowed him to “launch” like a rocket to shoot a basket or rise higher than the defender to shoot over him. That ability also allowed him to steal a lot, when he jumped into the passing lanes and got the ball it was because the other players didn't think he was at a distance where he could intercept it. Michael Jordan gambled more than other defenders not because he was careless, but because he knew he could get the ball when other players couldn't. Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman (and before him Horace Grant), all-time great defenders, did not defend like him because 1. They defended primarily on the inside while Jordan defended on the outside. 2. They didn't have that first step (no other player did), so they wouldn't bet on reaching a ball they knew they couldn't reach.
Jordan stealing the ball in passing lanes is like Victor Wembanyama blocking, players are in awe that he can get to them, Jordan was like that. You cannot ask a player to not do what only he can do.
0:23 😏
Michael jeffrey jordan at age 60 has 15 bodyguards let that sink in.
Fraud stats
6:53 - look at the pick his head is above the rim nd he’s holding the underside of the backboard 😂
I was looking for this comment 😂 never seen that pic before
@@mnbvsaint3194 it’s crazy 😂mans was a freak of nature literally the perfect guard nd how u feeling
How the hell did he make all defensive teams at least 6 times in his career
Who?
All defensive first team 9 times and deserved it.
A shhoting guard to win dpoy and carry most the offensive load at the same time is just wild.
If heen a 9X 1st team all defense & DPOY along with been 4th alltime in steals & 2nd among guards all-time in blocks. Also compiled 200 steals & 100 blocks 2X in one season is overrated, then he's definitely overrated.
Alexa search for "My glorious GOAT air Jordan Black Jesus defensive goat stats"
@@antipro4483he’s right
Possibly a top 3 perimeter defender.
Yes. Nobody recognizes that Bird was a better defender but he was
He wasn't? Just... no? There's legitimately no arguement for him.
Bird was a good help defender and that's it.
Nobody recognizes that because that's a ludicrous thing to say. He wasn't even 50% of the defender that Jordan was, which is why he never made a single 1st defensive team.
Bird is a super underrated defender, but he was no Jordan.
Unlike Jordan, Bird DID lead the league in defensive win shares-- FOUR TIMES. Also got 2nd place 2x (Jordan peaked at #2, one time).
Bird is incredibly under-rated as a defender.
@@phillipschuman4307 Jordan led guards in DWS 7 times. You must not understand the statistic if you don’t understand why guards never lead the league in it, lmao.
It doesn't hurt that ge had Scottie Pippen later in his career that he was able to gamble in the passing lanes to get steals to go along with his great shot blocking awareness
He was gambling on steals and blocks as early as his rookie year. Nothing to do with Pippen.
What is not mentioned is that much of Michael Jordan's defensive prowness was done in tandom with Scottie Pippen. From personal experience playing basketball, you cannot have multiple players taking the risk that Jordan was accustomed to taking on defense. You need players like Pippen and Rodman to smother and frustrate the oppenent in tandem with Jordan to help force turnovers. The evidence for this is that Jordan did not recieve his first All-Defensive team selection until Scottie Pippen's rookie year in the 1987-1988 season. From there, the rest of his First-team all defensive selections were with the Bulls with Pippen and later Rodman as teammates.
That's not evidence of anything except you don't know what you're talking about. The year before Pippen arrived, Jordan has one of only two (both by him) seasons for a guard with over 200 steals and over 100 blocks, averaging 2.9 SPG and 1.5 BPG, only slightly behind his averages the next year when he would be awarded the DPOY. He should have won it both years. And his defense was absolutely incredible even in his rookie season - he inarguably should have been First Team All Defense in 1984-85 and in 86-87 (should have won DPOY as well).
Regarding MJ's gambling on defence. I know everyone called it gambling, or taking chances, however, MJ was quick enough and fast enough to recover after a bad defensive gamble. And the main thing was, he knew it, and was confident about it. I think it is unfair to say that MJ's stats were better because he was taking more risks on defence. No, his stats on defence were better because he had unbelievable defensive perception to know when to gamble or when not to. Reading an offensive play is part of the greatness. That's why we all love Kobe's Detail series. MJ didn't come to the game and decided to take chances on defence, he watched hours of film to know what opponents like to do, and what the plays are.
I'm not saying MJ is the greatest defender ever, but he should be considered as one of the greatest defenders for sure.
Normally he doesnt know when to gamble or when not to.
😊🎉👍👍
Love yr content. I do believe Jordan was a incredible defender although i do think Pippen was the better defender overall but Jordan was a beast on both ends of the court
I think he is rated accordingly not high not low
MJ could have lead every defensive statistical category if he wanted to. He didn’t because he was a team player and stayed within his role.
I think guards as a whole are overrated as defenders. Like no guard is a top 10 defender ever. None of the guards who won DPOY deserved to win. Rim protecting big men are just more impactful on that end because they erase all 5 positions from scoring the most frequent and most efficient shots in basketball. That’s going to help one’s team defense more than locking up one guard on the perimeter.
That also makes it easier for guards to make it on the All-Defensive Team. The voters are required to select guards, not necessarily the top 10 defenders in the NBA.
@@gmdwill
Right, same with all NBA team. It’s rarely ever the 5 best in the league selected.
jordan deserved it tho thats why you dont here nobody saying it was a snub because he deserved it also centers are overatted by that logic because they cant play perimenter defesne so stop it@@roundtable3501
Yeah, but versatility matters and neither guards nor centers could do that back then. Only wings can do that.
@@a-a-rondavis9438
Yeah it does, but it doesn’t matter over raw Defensive impact, which is why Centers or at best PF’s dominate DPOY, and should.
You can give respect to some amazing Guard Defenders by having them in the DPOY conversation, but I think they should, with very little exception (say, MJ or GP or maybe Sidney) be given it
He is elite defensive player! Top 5 defensive guards ever!
Jordan is never an overrated defender if I recall he’s the only guard to record over 200 steals and 100 blocks in multiple seasons So yeah he’s not overrated 🤷🏿♂️
To some extent it's like arguing about the prettiest painting in the museum. Defense is different for a big man and a guard. They don't do the same things. Let's call him the best defensive guard and keep it moving.
Michael Jordan played in an era where you can handcheck. If players today could handcheck, they would be great defenders too
Hell, he played in an era where you could full-on tackle dudes in the paint. Modern players couldn't survive Jordan Rules.
So
So if you can handcheck James Harden would be a great defender? This comment is beyond stupid. If you think the ability to handcheck was the reason Jordan was a great defender then you obviously didn't watch him and more importantly don't know anything about basketball
@@kaminsod4077that's just speculation and assuming that modern players couldn't adapt. It's the same logic people use when they say that players from other eras wouldn't be able to adapt to modern basketball. Great players would be great in any era.
It takes way more than been able to handcheck someone to be a great defender. If that's all it took to be a great defender then every player from Jordan's era would be considered a great defender but they aren't.
“And” my guy?
Imma say no. There’s an equally amount of push back saying that Scottie heavily picked up his slack.
Also: I won’t put MJ at the top 10
Overall. Too many bigs that would fill out that spot. I got Ben #1. Just out of sheer personal bias. Then you’re gonna slot in the greats like Bill Russell, Hakeem, Kareem, Mutombo, Rodman, Mark Eaton, Dwight, Gobert, Mourning…
then I’ll even put Scottie above him. Although i can see them as somewhat interchangeable because I believe Scottie had better chances at defending due to his height and position, and not strictly based on skill alone.
And I’ll have to put Sydney Moncrief ahead of him in that list too.
6:47 That photo is ridiculous. Mike got way up there.
Jordan was both an offensi e Juggernaut & a Lockdown defender simultaneously. One sequence puts this argument in perspective for me. In the final moments of his last finals appearance. He got the steal and hit the game winning shot in the final moments of a closeout game for a 3-peat. Time and time again...Ive seen him take on the challenge of guarding the hot/best player in a game when the team needed a stop. He was undoubtedly the best player on both ends when he played. That makes him the best perimeter defender ever in my opinion. ...Not best defender ever but perimeter player. Or at the very least 2-way guard which is the most impressive due to the energy exerted on both ends. He was a nightmare to have to deal w/.
Great video
I used to think the same about Bigs consider their frequent last defense but a perimeter defender who stops their man from even getting to the hoop to allow for those block opportunities deserves consideration since those stats do not exist like traditional Big man defensive stats. It's possible that with new tech like Synergy one day being used on past games we will have stats that quantify player stops due to not only steals and blocks but missed shots & forced passes aka making their man give up the ball as a result of defensive pressure. For most Bigs during Jordan's era if their man got the ball down low it was going up so I think perimeter players would benefit from those stats. Player tracking is expanding so I think this will be possible sooner than later.
I aint delusional to believe mj was the best defender all time, but hes at the very least in the convo
MJ is probably a top 10 defender of all time for me. Definitely a top 3 perimeter defender of all time alongside with Moncrief and Payton. Some other names I would put in all time top 10 defensive list are mostly centers, starting with Russell, Wilt and Hakeem. I would also slide Rodman in aswell thanks to his versatility. When younger he was a perimeter menace and after getting older he was an inside menace.
MJ is not a Top-10 defender... Payton, Moncrief, Leonard, Pippen, Rodman, Green, Duncan, Russell, Olajuwon, Chamberlain, Wallace, Mutombo. That's 12 right there that I would EASILY take over MJ, and there's plenty of guys who are arguable. Cooper, Dennis Johnson, Bruce Bowen, CP3, LeBron, Gobert, Davis just to say a few
@@Time_Lapse_Master. I have some serious issues to take you seriously if you really claim Draymond Green to be better than Michael Jordan in any basketball related thing :D
@@Zamppa86 I have some serious issues to take you seriously if you think someone's better at defense because they're better at offense :D
@@Zamppa86 The Warriors defense is built around Draymond Green... And a bunch of great perimeter defenders called Klay Thompson, Andre Iguodala and Andrew Wiggins. The Bulls defense was built around Scottie Pippen... And a bunch of great perimeter defenders called Michael Jordan and Ron Harper.
That's the difference.
MJ excelled in the system.
Draymond IS the system.
Top 3 guard defense for sure, but id say top 10 overall given his position and height, to do what he did was incredible
So overrated. Top 10 guard defender, arguable top 5 guard defender. Nothing better
awards and accolades are sometimes a popularity contest too, so don't base everything on that. But MJ was an excellent wing defender, but as a guard I wouldn't expect him to try to guard centers or power forwards all that often other than missmatch switches. Also everyone gets dunked on and scored on no matter how good a defender one is. Also in MJ's day, NO ONE could guard Shaq one on one, it was literally impossible.
Rodman on his A game could defend Shaq one on one, to great effect.
I disagree with your statement on centers. I mean, obviously rim protection makes a huge difference and affects all players on the floor, but there have been some players who have been able to affect the whole offensive team at different positions.
Pippen was able to guard his men, help on drives and double team on offensive threats. Kevin Garnett could be on top of an all court press, and then come back to protect the paint. Payton could affect the whole flow of the game by suffocating your point guard.
So yes, centers have an advantage, but you don't have to be a center to be the best defender in my opinion
MJ is my Goat
but i think the Dream is the greatest defender
i don't think anyone ever called him the best defender of all time...
Yeah. Johnny Arnett goes out of his way to try to be objective by using that "I'm not like other MJ fans" schtick.
The 1988 DPOY should have gone to Olajuwon who was ahead of Jordan on all defensive stats and more impactful as a defender too when measured by the drop in opposing center’s FG%
1987 DPOY should have gone to MJ. That was the first year he recorded 200 steals and 100 blocks. They gave the award to Michael Cooper, who came off the bench.
Good video. I don't recall anyone acting as if MJ had no weaknesses. He was an essential god, but mythological gods all have flaws, and pagan gods were only divine in one aspect (sun, oceans, harvest, etc.). MJ was built different, but even the least objective stans I have seen acknowledge his flaws. He was a subpar shooter from deep. His passing was excellent but not his primary elite skill. If anything, people argue that if he had the benefit of hindsight/ current day training, that there is nothing he would not have been able to do. This guy was a mad man. I agree with the aspect that on the court, he could do anything he set his focus toward at close to the highest of levels. Keep in mind he did everything listed in 15 seasons. 4 of those seasons were truncated by injury or retirement. He has a case for greatest wing defender, but it depends on what is most valued (isolated man-man coverage, help defense, etc.). Pippen was likely the better man-man defender of the two.
His passing/playmaking for others was absolutely elite. Look at his stint playing PG, 10 triple doubles in 11 games or something like that. Averaged a triple-double basically for 30 something games. Greatest passing 2-guard of all-time, easily.
Also, he literally said he could be the best three-point shooter in the game but he didn't practice it, didn't want to - which makes perfect sense for the time he played in, when it was a little used shot. He barely attempted any - only 1.7 per game - and in the only three seasons he attempted 3 or more per game, he shot .376, .374 and .425 from 3. He would have been a 3 point God if he wanted to be - this is evidenced by his incredible mid-range game and his incredible FT shooting, both of which translate to having a great three point shot and are the barometers used by NBA scouts with young players today.
Great Video
MJ is one of the greatest perimeter defenders ever. Yea Moncrief won a couple dpoy's but MJ proved to be better in high leverage moments hence the 6 championships.
Jonny, on your Wizards Jordan video, you said that he was the only significant addition for the team and he made the team a top 5 defensive team. An old Jordan who is not a center. I think that is good enough to rank him at least top 10 defensive players of all time.
Let's say that he was the greatest defensive SG. But all-time I'd say top 10.
Definitely underrated if this is even a question....
Remember Jordan wasn’t only a defender, he was a offensive monster. And he mastered how to spend his time in game to be a top player in both end of the game. And been guard is very hard to pick and choose. That’s why he was a great defender without dropping his offensive game. Dennis Rodman was focused all the time in the defensive event.
I notice you reverted to your old editing style, I was getting used to the new one
Good Video
As a SG hes top 3 id say maybe higher maybe lower but in terms of all time defenders at any position there are just to many great bigmen like wallace, rodmann, russel, wilt, kareem, hakeem, duncan, garnett, gobert and so on that due to their position were able to have great defensive impact
Positions is irrelevant to defense smooth brain
Michael Jordan is *underrated* as a defender in spite of his numerous accolades, because people still don't actually know how defensively dominant he was. Jerry West stated in a halftime interview during the 1996 Finals that Jordan's defense is overlooked because everyone only knows his offensive dominance. Jordan will never get the full credit he deserves for his defensive dominance. He was the one that guarded the best player most often, not Scottie.
“Michael Jordan *always took it to a point that he wanted to guard the best player* even with myself, even if I start talking trash to him he would always tell Scottie Pippen ‘look, I’m taking Gary tonight’,” Payton told First Take. “He would always take the best basketball player..."
- Former Defensive Player of the Year Gary Payton
and with Ron Harper injured in the middle 3 games of the 1996 Finals, Jordan was the one against whom Payton mainly struggled offensively in that series, after a great first 3 rounds.
Isiah Thomas, Clyde Drexler, Kevin Johnson, Gary Payton, John Stockton, Tim Hardaway, Penny Hardaway, Glen Rice, Steve Smith, Reggie Miller, Rod Strickland, all struggled much more when guarded by Jordan in Playoffs or Finals series.
Players like Joe Dumars 1991 and Terry Porter 1992 had huge playoff averages entering series against the Bulls but got shut down against Jordan.
Even in the instances where a perimeter player had better averages against the Bulls, they were mainly lighting up the PGs like Paxson, Vincent, Hodges, Armstrong, Kerr, Harper, or Brown and struggled with Jordan switching on to them. (Ricky Pierce 1990, Steve Smith 1992, Rod Strickland 1997)
1) Ricky Pierce had the highest scoring average of any 6th Man in NBA history (23 PPG) in 1989/90, but got shut down every time Jordan switched on to him in the 1990 Playoffs despite his great series averages. In Game 1 he had something like 9/10 FG to start the game and then Jordan switched on to him and he went 2/11 the rest of the way. He also got shut down vs Jordan individually in Game 2 and 4, Game 3 he played decently against Jordan's individual defense.
2) Steve Smith had 15 points in the 1st half of 1992 1st Round Game 3, none of them against Jordan. He had 3 points in the 2nd half, the only points he scored on Jordan the whole game. Jordan held him to 0 points in the final 5 minutes of the 3rd quarter and the final 5 minutes of the 4th quarter (Smith sat out the 4th quarter prior to that point). Game 2 he only had 11 points and almost all of them were after getting blown out by 20+. Game 1 was the only one where he succeeded against Jordan's defense.
Jordan shut down Smith to 17.6 PPG on 32/31/83 shooting in their 1997 Playoffs rematch (after Smith's 20 PPG season), rotating with Harper and Pippen throughout the series.
3) Rod Strickland had 7 of his 9 4th quarter points against Kukoc and Kerr in 1997 1st Round Game 3, but only 2 on Jordan and missed the game-tying shot on Jordan. Jordan also shut him down in Game 1 and 2 while he lit up Kerr, Harper, and Kukoc.
4) Hersey Hawkins also had big stats against the Bulls in the 2nd round in 1990 and 1991 but struggled on Jordan, such as
Game 1, 1990 - 12 points on 3/13 FG
Game 4, 1990 - 2 points in the 4th quarter on Hodges, 0 point and 1 shot attempt in the final 6 minutes on Jordan
Game 5, 1990 - 5 points in the 2nd half, 0 in the 2nd half on Jordan
In the 1991 ECSF Hawkins had 2 big games of 29 and 30 points, but 10, 15, and 15 in the other 3. His stats for the series look solid, but he still was poor in 3 of 5 games, meaning Jordan shut him down the majority of the games of the series. Despite those 2 big games, he still had under 20 PPG for the series after 22.7 PPG on 51/50/90 shooting in the 1st Round and 22.1 PPG on 47/40/87 in the season
He had big 1st Round series in 1990 and 1991 only to do much less against Jordan's individual defense. In 5 of 10 Bulls-Sixers playoff games he had 12, 11, 10, 15, and 15 points, and even in some of his big games like 26 points in Game 4 of 1990, Jordan still shut him down in the 4th quarter. And mostly scored on Hodges, Paxson, Armstrong.
5) Another good example is Reggie having 22 points on 7/12 FG through 3 quarters in Game 7, but 0 points and 1 shot attempt with Jordan switching on to him in the 4th quarter to win the series. Countless examples of Isiah, Drexler, etc. lighting up the other Bulls only for Jordan to switch on to them and shut it down.
6) The only reason people believe that Pippen guarded the best player is because of Game 2 of the 1991 Finals (and Jordan still primarily guarded Magic for the overall series). and Magic never "lit up" Jordan consistently. Jordan also held Magic to 0-0-0 on 0/2 FG with 2 TOs in the overtime of Game 3 with Pippen fouling out at the end of the 4th quarter. In Game 5 Magic shot 33% and Jordan contributed to all 6 of Magic's turnovers, as well as more that were not credited to Magic himself.
Pippen himself admitted in the post Game 5 interview with Bob Costas that "Phil stuck with Mike" with regards to guarding Magic because "he was able to put a lot more pressure on him after Game 2"
Even in that Game 2, Magic had 0 points and 3 assists when guarded by Jordan in the 8 minutes they matched up.
In only a few series did Pippen mainly guard the best player - Dominique 1993, Penny 1996, Rice 1998, and Jordan still did the better job when guarding the latter 2 for shorter stretches.
Penny had 1 total point on Jordan in the 1996 ECF on 0/5 FG and 4 or 5 TOs (can't remember exactly how many TOs), and Rice only made 1 FG on Jordan in the whole 1998 ECSF, I think it was 1/5 FG on Jordan plus some TOs. MJ only guarded Nique briefly in 1993, but still did well, albeit too small a sample to compare to Pippen.
Some more myths to debunk
7) I've heard people claim Gerald Wilkins lit up Jordan, yet he averaged a lower PPG in 3/4 series against Jordan and a lower FG% in 4/4 series against Jordan compared to his season averages. In 1989 he had 21 PPG on 63% in the 1st Round then 13.5 PPG on 40% in the 2nd Round vs Jordan's Bulls.
1993 was the one series that he averaged more PPG, while he averaged 7.0 more MPG compared to the regular season (and still shot a worse FG%).
11.1 PPG on 45% in 26 MPG (1992/93 season)
15.3 PPG on 43% in 33 MPG (1993 ECSF)
In his 22 point performance in Game 4 of the 1993 ECSF, he had only 7 points on Jordan and averaged 13 PPG on 33% in the other 3 games combined. Even with his good Game 4 (mostly on non-Jordan defenders) he had a mere 15.3 PPG on 43% in a 4-game sweep.
8) Another one I've heard is Alvin Robertson 1990 1st Round. He had one big game against Jordan in Game 3 of 38 points, but had 18.7 PPG on 46% in the other 3 combined. And as mentioned previously, Jordan was tasked with switching on to Ricky Pierce when he got hot, which then freed up Robertson to light up Paxson and Hodges with Jordan switching off of him (and vice-versa, when Jordan was on Robertson and off of Pierce, Pierce got hot such as starting Game 1 shooting 9/10 FG but then went 2/11 after Jordan switched on to him).
9) Another one I heard was John Starks, who scored a lower PPG in 4/4 series vs Jordan and shot a lower FG% in 3/4 of them. The one exception is when he shot 2.3% higher FG in the 1993 ECF compared to the regular season and still scored 2.3 fewer PPG.
17.5 PPG on 43% in 31 MPG (1992/93 season)
15.2 PPG on 45% in 40 MPG (1993 ECF)
In the 1993 ECF, he had games of 12, 8, 8 and 14 points
His only 2 out of 6 good games of 25 and 24 points saved his series averages.
His TOpg also more than doubled from 2.2 to 4.7
His APG only went up from 5.1 to 5.7
and he was playing 9 more MPG compared to the season, yet still had much lower production in much more time.
10) and other ones I've heard were addressed previously; Ricky Pierce, Steve Smith, Rod Strickland. Noticeably, these series where they have big numbers on the Bulls weaker defenders are the minimum sample size of 3-4 games (Hawkins slightly more at 5 games).
In other words, your best bet of an opposing perimeter player looking good against Jordan's Bulls was lighting up the weaker defenders and having a 1 game anomaly that skews your stats in the smallest sample size possible.
11) Another myth is that Isiah Thomas lit up Jordan. Isiah shot 39-41% in all 4 Bulls-Pistons series. The only game he actually lit up Jordan (out of 22 head to head playoff games) was Game 2 of the 1989 ECF. Even in Game 5 and 6 when he outscored Jordan, he shot in the low 40s against Jordan individually and feasted on Paxson and Hodges.
In Jordan's DPOY season he also shut down Isiah during his 59-point performance on April 3, 1988. Isiah was 1/5 FG when guarded by Jordan including 0/3 on go-ahead/tying attempts with 30, 25, and 4 seconds left, the second of which was blocked by Jordan. There were also several TOs that Jordan forced on Isiah or on other Pistons as a result of his defense on Isiah such as denying the ball or wasting the shot clock.
One TO in particular, he forced Isiah to give up the ball to Laimbeer with 7 seconds left tied at 110-110, then Laimbeer turned it over into Jordan's hands who made the game-winning FTs.
Jordan also made Dominique miss a game-winning attempt in his DPOY season.
Jordan is insanely overrated as a defender. Stop .
Most mythicized player of all time, in any sport. And it's not close
Be quiet
@@NoNameWillBeGiven-sj2ib I said what I said
@@TruthLC you said nothing
Jordan is in top 10 for me, top 13 at worst, and I don't think anyone seriously thinks he is the greatest defender. Overall he is properly rated unlike Kobe who is very overrated defender.
For me top 5 defensive Guards which is mindblowing considering he is an offensive monster
🤔
Fwiw among shooting guards MJ is:
1st in points per game
1st in blocks per game
3rd in steals per game
3rd in rebounds per game
4th in fg%
6th assists per game.
Therefore yes, he's both a great defensive as well as great offensive player and the goat !!
This video along with the comment section is horrifyingly biased. No idea why I'm even here. BUT "9xs All Defensive selection" with be the 2nd best defensive guard and 4th best defensive player on your own team (96-99) while continually getting the praise for defense is insane.
This is what I would say Michael was a great defender but sometime his defense is exaggerated by some of his fans
This was actually discussed back in 90s with the topic of "overrated defenders". Some names like Stockton was part of the discussion because they weren't really good one-on-one defenders but with exceptionally high stats in steals. It was suggested that Jordan plays with a pure athleticism and instinct instead of fundamental. Still, criticize Jordan is considered as heresy so I will only referred this was the "discussion in 90s".
meadowlark lemon is the goat.
short answer: no.
long answer: nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
MJ was a top 5-10 defender all time! He was the leader of his teams who took on his identity. Now I may have Kawhi higher because he got 2 dpoy but there was a lot of MJ fatigue in the 90s. & I agree with your point when it comes to perimeter guys vs bigs. That’s why I think we should start ranking them separate all together. But bill russel is the Goat defender. He seemed to be a mix of Draymond & Rodman just more athletic
Up until Pippen's development, Jordan led both the lockdown defender and team defender roles that's how he was able to win DPOY. But as Pippen grew into an elite defender, Jordan focused more on the lockdown defense side of the game and handed over the team defense to Pippen.
I think Jordan was better as a lockdown defender, and Pippen was better as an all around team defender. Phil Jackson also said that Jordan's lockdown defense is better, so Phil made Pippen initially guard the opposing swingman, and then if that didn't work, made Jordan guard him. (Ex: Iverson, Grant Hill, etc.)
I've seen people talk about Jordan as one of the greatest defensive players of all time, but I've rarely seen them call him the greatest defender of all time. If it's the former, I don't think it's an overstatement.
6:07 He didn’t just gamble on defense lol