I feel like most people wouldn't consider this a complex oscillator because there is no folder (I think?) or modulation bus. Calling it a Dual VCO like they have makes more sense. Doesn't mean it isn't well designed or full featured just not that similar to the 259.
@Bata9999 it's true that there's no folder but there is a modulation bus in a sense, the output of the crossfader for each side is normalled to the TZFM of the other side. The crossfader can also allow you a similar (though not the same as folding) timbre parameter that fades from sine to a more harmonically rich wave so it can act a lot like a complex oscillator. Definitely true that it's not a 259 though, the closest I can think of to a 259 with tzfm is the Frap Tools Brenso but that only has it on one of the oscillators
@@greencontact Looks like someone else has already done that, but I had to click the Other/Unknown box for it to show up. But HuHu and Tiny Tot are still missing. Would be best if she got her company registered on Modular Grid as a manufacturer.
Also worth noting that exponential FM is common in a lot of places, but if you're more familiar with "FM synthesis," then you can think of exponential FM as what happens when someone fills your sugar bowl with salt. Might seem similar at first...
This is truly a fab module, but seriously, does any one know where we can get it? It' seems it's been on "back order" forever... The beaniebunnie web-page also seems to be 404 now too :(
I thought that the main advantage of through-zero linear fm was to give stable pitch no matter how high the FM index was set to. If I remember correctly, all TZLFM oscillators I have seen so far maintained stable pitch. Am I wrong about this?
It varies a bit depending on exactly how it’s implemented in analogue oscillators. I believe this one uses the SSI2130 VCO chip which is pretty popular these days. The pitch is pretty stable through most of the range, but this design does allow for quite extreme indexes, where the pitch loses stability a bit. It’s also more stable when the modulator is a lower frequency than the carrier. FWIW the Moo Moo behaves very much like the AtoV DHO (which also uses the 2130) but it’s different to the Dannysound EN129 and Instruo Neoni, which have their own circuit designs. It’s a bit of a can of worms and some of it’s over my head tbh, but I think if you want truly pitch-stable TZFM then you probably need to go digital.
@@TomChurchillthe EN129 and most other TZFM VCOs that use discrete components vs dedicated ICs like the 2130 are all based on concepts from Electro Notes 129 and 75. Electro Notes was a sort of technical newsletter back in the day with contributors from all the great synth designers including Bob Moog, who is credited with the original concept behind these types of circuits. VCO cores may differ from module to module, but are often triangle core using OTA eg LM13700 or VCA chips like the 2164 but they will all employ some kind of analogue switching function to swap between standard and phase inverted modulation for positive and negative incoming voltage, respectively. This is the core principle behind TZFM and why it results in more stable pitch even at high FM depths vs exponential or regular linear FM. Negative modulation doesn’t stall the core because as I understand it, no negative voltage is applied because at the zero crossing the analogue switch flips to a phase inverted ie reversed, copy of the modulating signal so it’s essentially always positive. The standard/reversed wave gives the illusion of a true bipolar modulating input signal. Pretty neat trick 😅 I have a bit of an obsession with TZFM/PM VCOs and have built quite a few myself plus I also have an interest in electronic engineering and have studied the circuits and EN articles etc 😅
I have a Schlappi Three body in my system and being (an extremely well engineered) FGPA based ie digital VCO it is capable of very stable FM and PM even at very high index settings and or crazy cross modulation, significantly more so than the Generate 3, for example, which although equally well engineered is a 100% analog and therefore inherently less stable circuit. High FM/PM depth is more clangerous/atonal, especially without hard or soft syncing between the modulator and carrier modules.
Dang it - I hate it when the manufacturers have these videos drip when the modules aren’t in stock yet - I would have Insta ordered - now not sure if my attention deficit will let me remember all this in several weeks or months time 🤷 will try to keep an eye on signal sounds
Thank you for introduction, but that emphasis on 'China' at the end, reminds me of DJT! I havent seen too many videos with emphasis on the country of origin ;)
I’ve changed the title - I just thought it was interesting as a point of difference (i.e. 90% of modular brands are based in the US or UK/Europe; there are comparatively few in Asia) - the last thing I wanted to do was sound like that guy! Apologies if that offended anyone.
@@TomChurchill Thank you! And thanks a lot for introducing this module. I WANT IT NOW! I totally understand your point, also a female module designer :-) It is pretty awesome! I am sorry if my comment was a bit too reactive! Cheers and happy holidays Tom!
I hope there will be more modules made in Asia, and also I think there are great musicians and technologists, specifically from China (I have read and seen their work in academic sphere). I speculate the issue might be there isn't enough communication or exchanges. I hope there will be more!
Me too! There’s definitely very interesting stuff happening outside of the obvious places. Another interesting brand in China is Ear Modular - very cool looking and interesting stuff, we stock a few of them at Signal Sounds ;) www.signalsounds.com/ear-modular/
@@TomChurchill So cool I will check it out.I also get excited when builders think of the plate design a bit more. I think in Canada we might have some difficulty to find some modules. I have seen couple of European brands that I like that our stores don't have in stock. Thanks for the link!
Thanks so much for the demonstration, really great job at explaining everything! 👍🏻
A very elegant design! Particularly love that both oscillators do TZFM at the same time as it's still relatively rare in complex oscillators
I feel like most people wouldn't consider this a complex oscillator because there is no folder (I think?) or modulation bus. Calling it a Dual VCO like they have makes more sense. Doesn't mean it isn't well designed or full featured just not that similar to the 259.
@Bata9999 it's true that there's no folder but there is a modulation bus in a sense, the output of the crossfader for each side is normalled to the TZFM of the other side. The crossfader can also allow you a similar (though not the same as folding) timbre parameter that fades from sine to a more harmonically rich wave so it can act a lot like a complex oscillator. Definitely true that it's not a 259 though, the closest I can think of to a 259 with tzfm is the Frap Tools Brenso but that only has it on one of the oscillators
Thank you for this, super helpful and informative...as always!
Beautiful instrument!
Nice to see this covered in more detail. Got one right away...but I do wish she would get this up on Modular Grid so I can fill the hole in my setup!
You can upload it to modulargrid yourself. I have uploaded some DIY modules I made in modular courses.
@@greencontact Looks like someone else has already done that, but I had to click the Other/Unknown box for it to show up. But HuHu and Tiny Tot are still missing. Would be best if she got her company registered on Modular Grid as a manufacturer.
it's up under "Show other/unknown"
Also worth noting that exponential FM is common in a lot of places, but if you're more familiar with "FM synthesis," then you can think of exponential FM as what happens when someone fills your sugar bowl with salt. Might seem similar at first...
This is truly a fab module, but seriously, does any one know where we can get it? It' seems it's been on "back order" forever... The beaniebunnie web-page also seems to be 404 now too :(
Arriving at Signal Sounds very soon! www.signalsounds.com/beanie-bunnie-moo-moo-eurorack-dual-oscillator-module
Looks very cool, I am guessing Jeanie likes This is not rocket science? 🎉
I thought that the main advantage of through-zero linear fm was to give stable pitch no matter how high the FM index was set to. If I remember correctly, all TZLFM oscillators I have seen so far maintained stable pitch. Am I wrong about this?
But some designers give you a bit more of range for more timbre, past this range the pitch it's less stable, but very useful for drones, etc...
It varies a bit depending on exactly how it’s implemented in analogue oscillators. I believe this one uses the SSI2130 VCO chip which is pretty popular these days. The pitch is pretty stable through most of the range, but this design does allow for quite extreme indexes, where the pitch loses stability a bit. It’s also more stable when the modulator is a lower frequency than the carrier. FWIW the Moo Moo behaves very much like the AtoV DHO (which also uses the 2130) but it’s different to the Dannysound EN129 and Instruo Neoni, which have their own circuit designs. It’s a bit of a can of worms and some of it’s over my head tbh, but I think if you want truly pitch-stable TZFM then you probably need to go digital.
@@deathofaraver exactly - it's great having that slightly more extreme range!
@@TomChurchillthe EN129 and most other TZFM VCOs that use discrete components vs dedicated ICs like the 2130 are all based on concepts from Electro Notes 129 and 75. Electro Notes was a sort of technical newsletter back in the day with contributors from all the great synth designers including Bob Moog, who is credited with the original concept behind these types of circuits.
VCO cores may differ from module to module, but are often triangle core using OTA eg LM13700 or VCA chips like the 2164 but they will all employ some kind of analogue switching function to swap between standard and phase inverted modulation for positive and negative incoming voltage, respectively. This is the core principle behind TZFM and why it results in more stable pitch even at high FM depths vs exponential or regular linear FM. Negative modulation doesn’t stall the core because as I understand it, no negative voltage is applied because at the zero crossing the analogue switch flips to a phase inverted ie reversed, copy of the modulating signal so it’s essentially always positive. The standard/reversed wave gives the illusion of a true bipolar modulating input signal. Pretty neat trick 😅
I have a bit of an obsession with TZFM/PM VCOs and have built quite a few myself plus I also have an interest in electronic engineering and have studied the circuits and EN articles etc 😅
I have a Schlappi Three body in my system and being (an extremely well engineered) FGPA based ie digital VCO it is capable of very stable FM and PM even at very high index settings and or crazy cross modulation, significantly more so than the Generate 3, for example, which although equally well engineered is a 100% analog and therefore inherently less stable circuit. High FM/PM depth is more clangerous/atonal, especially without hard or soft syncing between the modulator and carrier modules.
Dang it - I hate it when the manufacturers have these videos drip when the modules aren’t in stock yet - I would have Insta ordered - now not sure if my attention deficit will let me remember all this in several weeks or months time 🤷 will try to keep an eye on signal sounds
Shouldn't be too long now... www.signalsounds.com/beanie-bunnie-moo-moo-eurorack-dual-oscillator-module
Mooooo!
If it took up a lot more space in the rack I think I would have a better chance at making it work.
Yeah I’d jam that ♩¨̮(ง ˙˘˙ )ว♩¨̮. Also A maybe missed opportunity to use the whole name every time you reference it in the video :) :)
I think I saw the thonk logo on the Data module? ua-cam.com/video/rbch88ADSec/v-deo.html
Haha - I think you're right!
Thank you for introduction, but that emphasis on 'China' at the end, reminds me of DJT! I havent seen too many videos with emphasis on the country of origin ;)
I’ve changed the title - I just thought it was interesting as a point of difference (i.e. 90% of modular brands are based in the US or UK/Europe; there are comparatively few in Asia) - the last thing I wanted to do was sound like that guy! Apologies if that offended anyone.
@@TomChurchill Thank you! And thanks a lot for introducing this module. I WANT IT NOW!
I totally understand your point, also a female module designer :-) It is pretty awesome! I am sorry if my comment was a bit too reactive! Cheers and happy holidays Tom!
I hope there will be more modules made in Asia, and also I think there are great musicians and technologists, specifically from China (I have read and seen their work in academic sphere). I speculate the issue might be there isn't enough communication or exchanges. I hope there will be more!
Me too! There’s definitely very interesting stuff happening outside of the obvious places. Another interesting brand in China is Ear Modular - very cool looking and interesting stuff, we stock a few of them at Signal Sounds ;) www.signalsounds.com/ear-modular/
@@TomChurchill So cool I will check it out.I also get excited when builders think of the plate design a bit more. I think in Canada we might have some difficulty to find some modules. I have seen couple of European brands that I like that our stores don't have in stock.
Thanks for the link!
UGLIEST faceplate I’ve ever seen. Sounds good though.