Definitely the top Four. I seem to recall that John D.F. Black and Her Solow always claimed they created most of the stuff we associate with Star Trek. I don't know if that is true but it was very common for executive producers in those days to have a basic idea and then claim all the creative credit even though other writers fleshed out those basic ideas. But D.C. Fontana, as mentioned, rewrote many stories that were drastically different including "City on the Edge of Forever" which, with all due respect to Harlan Ellison, just didn't work in its original form when dealing with characters who have to be back the next week and every week in a series. Anyone trying to say she was not overwhelmingly significant to the success of Star Trek is, at best, ignorant and, at worst, something worse than ignorant.
Daddy-Odo is one of the few entities who could well and truly embody the retort "I'm more man that you'll ever be and more woman than you'll ever get!" Unless he's talking to Kira. In which case, he'd be wrong on both counts.
Almost a daddy... He needed a beard to be a true daddy. I’m more of an Uncle. My sister calls “Uncle Frank” but that’s also a reference to Frank Zappa. Steve: you’re a future daddy. 😘🌈
This actually confused the heck out of me, both in the original vid and here, until I realized it was being used as some kind of slang term I've missed. I just knew I was almost certain Odo didn't have any descendants of his own on the colony he callously wiped from existence.
I vaguely remember reading in one of the books Odo and another character speculating that the Founders somehow inserted some kind of "facial inhibitor" in the Hundred (perhaps as part of the same genetic alteration that implanted and/or amplified the urge to come home) so they couldn't get too comfortable among solids to actually fulfill their purpose. But yeah, it makes a lot of sense that they'd emulate his "unfinished" face in order to make him feel at home when they first meet.
@@rhisands2063 Well, they do look like the precursor race from the TNG episode "The Chase" (who are also The Preservers in Star Trek Online) so it is plausible.
I wish people were more honest. The whole "keep your politics out of x" argument really means, "Keep everything aligned to *my* political views or don't even mention it.". Personally, I came to your channel for the Star Trek and I've stayed because of the politics.
Deeply ironic too, given how political the statement is when you consider that that is the actual meaning. Nothing is really apolitical, some things only *seem* apolitical because they don't openly challenge the status quo, or at least the political positions of the viewer, and people only get upset about things "getting political" when they challenge the viewer's, often pro-status quo, politics.
14:20 I didn't expect my posting to be read and addressed on this installment! I was aware of the controversy attached to "Yesteryear" and the courage expressed in Gene's "Trust Dorothy" response to Filmation's hesitancy in airing it. I was 14 years old when I saw it and 17 when I lost Prince so I'd like to think of myself as one "young person" that wasn't marred by this excellent "cartoon" episode. Thank you very much for posting and addressing my comment and your kind words regarding my loss.
I always assumed the changelings mimicked Odo when he first met them to make him comfortable, but then eventually it morphed into a form of mockery of Odo.
I always thought that the Changelings kept their faces as a fu to solids. Embracing their "We're not Solids " . Sort of like embracing the "N" word or the "Q" word.
The comment in question was faulty from the start. Other changelings DO demonstrably have the ability to perfectly mimic solids. They perfectly mimic at least one Klingon and several humans. They can even mimic red blood. That was a huge plot point in the later run of the series. So obviously they choose to look how they look at any given point. Assuming they haven't been given a disease. I would go so far as to say even Odo could by the time of the start of the show likely do better or even perfect mimicry but as his shown form was something he saw as an identity he likely maintained it flaws and all. This is obviously a possibility because he does choose to return to that form consistently even though he could easily take on any number of other forms at will even if those forms are equally imperfect. He could do an imperfect human female, or an imperfect Klingon. Or even an imperfect version of his usual form with a different body type. Hell if there were ever a trek character ripe for easy recasting its Odo!
@@OllamhDrab that's true, for all their claims of being fearful of others and protecting them selves they go out of their way to engage, on their terms of course. I think though that from the early DS9 episodes Odo was going for a Bajoran face but couldn't get the nose right. And that's where his default humanoid look came from.
The weird thing about Cardassia as an eternally fascist state is that in one of the other very, very prominent Cardassian episodes, Chain of Command, Gul David Warner describes growing up before Central Command came to power, and how it took hold after a time of famine and strife on Cardassia. All the deep-seated tendencies to torture and oppression are just the result of some very effective restructuring of Cardassian society. Later writers played with the idea of the Cardassians just being built differently, being biologically built to more likely accept fascism so that the horrors of Cardassian life are more of an alien curiosity than a mirror of what humanity can do, but that episode understood that fascism doesn't need long to set itself up, and after it sets itself up, it tends to try rewriting history to insert itself deeper. If you want to really be spooked, look up the Third Wave, where a teacher as an experiment wound up creating a fascist movement that started going out of control in just a week.
it is kind ironic and sad, that someone who had to use a mans name to get work in the 60s, is being slagged off by men in 2019, and by Star Trek fans no less. Its like they dont even understand the message of the show they claim to be fans of.
@@dwc1964 I dont think she was wanted to work to be viewed in a gender blind fashion, in some 2019, 2020 way, she wanted to not be written off, because it was written by a woman, in that time, that meant suggesting you were male. Its not a knock on her, its just the reality of her times
@@dwc1964 look, she said her self that she chose the initials so that people wouldn't know she was a woman, arguing semantics about whether that means she was going for Male or not missed the point by a mile. Being a woman was and still is a hindrance to many if not most career paths, and trek fans that want to dismiss her or the tmreality she lived in are missing the point.
You know.... I have to be honest, I find that episode nearly *insanely sad.* Because, when you think about it, there are themes of hope, rejuvenation, purpose and honest sacrifice ranging in a dozen different formats throughout that episode, from Dax being a different person, to Quark becoming a teaching program for children, to Miles O'Brien eventually falling in love again...... And again, if Starfleet's most *DANGEROUS GODDAMN ENGINEER IMAGINABLE* can't fix the problem, I suspect no one can, and he found love and children again..... And Odo *grew* as a person. Became more complete. You're dead on the money, he became sadder. He wasn't diminished by his sadness, it enhanced him, and he had centuries to learn from his mistakes. And he committed suicide and murdered *THOUSANDS* of people to save his soul-mate. To merely give her a chance, he killed himself and committed genocide. ............ And I *UNDERSTAND!* And that's horrible, but I *UNDERSTAND!* I know what it is to love, lose your love, and suffer for it. And I *UNDERSTAND* that, if I were given the opportunity to commit atrocities to ensure that my love survived, even if I didn't......... I'd do it, too. Even knowing it's evil. Sorry to be a fucking *snowflake* here, but I'm actually crying as I write this because goddamn Star Trek pulled that out of me. Twenty years in the past, and the mere concept of that morally complex episode pulls at my soul on levels I'm not comfortable with.
I mean, Kira *REALIZES* she's going to die, and that's her fate, and that this is just what her destiny *IS* and she accepts that, knowing that a life of purpose and happiness awaits thousands....... And she embraces it. *EVERYONE* eventually does the Starfleet, "Well, we'll just make the best of things" routine. Which is fine, noble, moral and honest. They're willing to sacrifice their personal lives and ambitions to ensure that these hundreds of people will exist. But Odo loves Kira on such a level that defies morality itself........
Steve! Man, I haven't seen one of your videos since last year! (With daddy in the title, I'll reach and do a dad joke. What the hell...) I know you half-jokingly bash these vids since you don't need as much prep time for them. Just wanna say that I always enjoy your smacking down of the dumb comments. Always puts a smile on my face.
Three months late to the party and your defense of Daddy broke me and earned the hell out of that like from me. Aaaand the shout out for my terrrrrrible puns. Sweet delicious validation. It gives me life.
Back when I was in college some friends and I debated, "why do changelings choose to look like Odo" and came up with pretty much the same answer you did. One thing we thought was funny though was that Odo copied his hair style from Mora Pol, the Bajorian scientist who studied him as a child. So Mora Pol's hairstyle choice was inadvertently transferred to an entire species-- at least when they were in their solid form. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
One might also assume that forming and maintaining any sort of complex appearance requires more concentration and effort for a changeling. So if they don't *have* to mimic a particular solid, a simplified appearance might be preferred. Though that said I always thought it was a missed opportunity that future Odo wasn't just Rene Auberjonois without any make-up at all.
Damar & Rusot show the difference between a Patriot & a Nationalist. (Or in this case a Freedom Fighter & a Terrorist) Damar is willing to forget he used to hate of Kira because his priority is freeing Cardassia. And he asked for help because he took a clear eyed view of Cardassia’s position, assessed its strengths & weaknesses and did what he needed to do to fix them. I’m always struck by the fact that he had brought in cooling unit for her - I think he was genuinely grateful for her help. Rusot on the other hand is more interested in proving the superiority of Cardassians. He can’t bear the thought that they “need” the help of Bajorans. He’d rather believe that myth than help his people. And he wants to hit out against the dominion more than he wants to strategically help Cardassia.
Hey Steve, love the video, just wanted to point out that the episode mentioning an ‘ all-Vulcan crew ‘ is “ Take Me Out To The Holosuite “, and the all-Vulcan crew is that of Captain Solok, the petty Vulcan that challenges Captain Sisko to a baseball game, on the basis on the claim that his all-Vulcan crew will beat them because Vulcans are superior to most other humanoids, mainly humans And no, I didn’t have to look that up! 😊
Hey Steve, first off, great videos, love your work. Your sense of humor and views of the Trek-verse aren't just entertaining, but informative too. After your quite colorful response to the DC Fontana hater (GFY!!!) I thought I should let you know that Epoch Times is an advertiser on your page. Based on your political leanings this seems to be a bit off. Could you do a video specifically slamming them so they are paying for ads for you to destroy their lies? Thanks and keep up the great work!
I've been an avid follower of your channel for over a year now and recommended you to many people. Absolutely love all your content. I don't know what it was about this video in particular that pushed me to being a patreon patron (especially since it was just a late night re-watch, I'd already seen this one) but honestly, can't believe I wasn't already. You're a real one Steve. Thanks for the thoughtful analysis and creating one of the few spaces for Trek discussion that isn't completely full of vitriol. Thanks I guess too then, to the rest of your subscribers. The comments section of your videos can usually be counted on for some really interesting follow up reading. Hope the monthly donation helps. Keep doing what you do!
We know by inference in the TOS episode “The Immunity Syndrome” that Spock is far from the only Vulcan in Starfleet. The entire crew of the USS Intrepid NCC 1631 were, in fact Vulcan. As Vulcans are founding members of the UFP, it only makes sense that some of them would also serve in Starfleet. Sorry Steve...good response video anyway.
My understanding is that Spock is the first Vulcan-Human offspring (don't care for hybrid as a term) to survive to maturity and is therefore the first of those to service in Starfleet.
There's been references in later series, including DS9, that at least post-TOS, it's extremely common (if not the norm) for Starfleet ships to have crew of primarily one Federation species. Makes me wonder if other major Federation planets have their own versions (or campuses?) of Starfleet Academy. I guess it makes sense that not many Vulcans would wish to join a paramilitary organization, but I can't imagine Andorians or possibly even Tellarites being against joining the Federation's main defense force, but we don't see a bunch of Andorians or Tellarites wandering around STA:SF (or would it be STA:E?).
I would personaly say Yesteryear was probably up there as one of the best episodes in all the series because how it spark the imaginations of a generation. Dc Fontana even introduced the first holodeck. As a kid, when my friends and I saw the both "Yesteryear" and "The Practical Joker" these episode were talked about heavaly in school come monday morning and were part of our play time. We wanted the figure out how to make this all come to reality. I would argue that the whole tech boom may not have exploded like it did if not for star trek. To bad you didn't grow up seeing these shows coming out for the first time you would have loved it.
I became a Star Trek fan about 35 years ago. At the time, there were 79 episodes, 3 movies, and rumors of an animated series that many of my friends didn't believe existed. I could rent the 3 (and eventually 4) movies at the corner video store whenever I wanted, but seeing episodes of TOS at this point wasn't easy. It had been replaced by other shows (at least in my area) for the "after school syndication", and was relegated to middle of the night or weekend afternoon (if it wasn't pre-empted for sports). I read a lot of the Pocket Books novels (some of which are quite good), and caught episodes where I could. I bought a lot of the supplemental materials (episode guides, James Blish novelizations, behind the scenes books, RPG material, etc). Eventually, I would buy the series on VHS through CBS/Columbia House - 2 episodes per tape, 1 tape every 6 weeks - ($19.95each + $5 shipping). It took me all of high school and into college to amass the full series. It required several bookshelves to display and filled a full sized foot locker for storage. 15 years ago, my wife bought me the same series on DVD, it took up 6 inches of bookshelf space (if I wanted to display it in the fancy plastic cases). Today, I can tap my phone no more than 10 times, and get to a menu where I can can watch any episode of any series of Trek whenever I want to. That's pretty cool.
I love your videos. It is awesome to see someone so volatile yet positive! I don’t think that I’ve ever found that combination in anyone else. Your stuff about about the Orange Impeached Gorilla is so spot on, passionate, and well informed that I’ve shared it around more than once. My mom even likes your work. And your Star Trek stuff is not only informative but it fires so many shots at the toxicity often found in fan communities. Please keep it up!
Just for the record, it's Major Margaret "Hot Lips" Houlihan (Sally Kellerman) who asks how "how a degenerated person like that could reach a position of responsibility in the Army Medical Corps?" in the original movie version of M*A*S*H. And yes, it was Hawkeye. (Donald Sutherland).
The changelings initially took on an odo-face because they wanted to connect to odo, and show their solidarity because they wanted to convince him to join the great link, later on, the female boss changeling (forgot the name) linked with odo, and so she might have absorbed his comfort with that form into herself. Only from that point onwards did she actually use odo-face with people who aren't odo (the cardassians for example)
My favorite part of this video was seeing PZ show up. I went to college at University of Minnesota-Morris and got to see him fairly regularly. It is always fun to see different aspects of one's life intersect, very cool.
One thing I've wondered is why everyone in Next Generation and later still wear cumbersome space suits when going outside their ship when they had personal force fields in the Animated Series.
We all know the real answer, but in-universe I imagine having the only barrier between you and certain death being an ephemeral field projected by a belt-pack would be rather off-putting. Still, a much sleeker bodysuit that happened to also have such a force field emitter that did the heavy lifting is probably more realistic than a spacesuit that looks like ours in the 20th century. *shrug*
i could have sworn in the first encounter with the female changeling that they had the same face setup as him as a way to connect with him. that all the changelings minus the one that did the fog thing was told to do so for odo sake
Happy New Year! Thanks for the new content. Great episode as always. 🙂 I just wanted to tell you that I just started listening to The Ensign's Log and that I really enjoy it! You and Jason are doing a fantastic job. I finished the first nine episodes on a drive from Ohio to Chicago on Sunday. And I listened to two more last night. OMG! Baby! Spot! Tina the Iguana! Beautiful work. Kudos. All of this has finally convinced me to donate to your Patreon. I cannot afford much, but I want to help keep you making these videos and podcasts. Thanks for all your hard work.
I disagree with the negative comments on the Evolution Episode. I love it when you experiment with your format like in that one, the Tasha Yar funeral one, and the time travel loop.
I, too, love the experimenting with the format, the two others that you mentioned as well as the "Who Ruined the Borg?" episode, being great examples and I love those three. I, personally, feel it just didn't really work in the evolution episode.
I think something that has clicked in my head from your examination of the various cardassian characters is that the overall plot for cardassia/cardassians was predicted in the season 2 episode "The Wire", when garak talks about the cardassian epic "The Never Ending Sacrifice". However, the true story of cardassia is turned on the head of what the novel says, the sacrifice isn't one of upholding the state, it's one of protecting the people, and every major cardassian character throughout the series looks upon this sacrifice, though some make better choices than others.
Steve, when Picard airs I'm gonna unfortunately be on holiday in Austria, so please can we have a spoiler free first review. Yes, I'm actually lamenting the fact that a great holiday is affecting my TV watching!
I had sort of assumed that the Odo like facial appearance might have been a genetic memory from the link of the default humanoid appearance they use. Do I remember correctly the in one episode it was mentioned that the founders were once solids who evolved into changlings? If so, maybe that look was thier original solid appearance. Plus I think the actress who portrayed the lead founder was also on TNG as the hologram from the race that seeded all the humanoid races. Maybe the founders are also a product of that race or thier descendants. Wouldent that be ironic?
Your comment on the literary or dramatic necessity of Damar's death got me thinking about his redemption through death. From a literary perspective, could we see Damar's redemption ironically as a moment of tragedy? As the original comment pointed out, he had been risking his life throughout. I see this as not only his path to redemption, but his *struggle to reach* redemption. It is only in death that the struggle finally ends. His redemption, therefore, is achieved through a tragic climax to the character's story arc. Damar becomes a cautionary exemplar for the audience, his story a moral lens through which we get to assess moral choices, regret, and the scars of the past. It also serves as a moral lens through which we can assess the choices of *other* characters. I recall the brilliant performance of Avery Brooks in the episode "In the Pale Moonlight", where Sisko nearly slips into moral darkness that had engulfed Garak, Damar, and others. In considering Damar's own tragic redemption (and he is redeemed through tragedy), I get to see the real danger facing Sisko as our good captain is teetering on the edge. DS9 was great at engaging the moral ambiguity in humanity and the impact of humanity's choices.
Regarding Odo's resembling the other Changelings in their default humanoid, but 'not impersonating another being form' -- it's pretty clear that the changelings have ingrained Odo with some genetic memory and programming. They admit to it a degree when they explain how they sent Odo out with the intent that he would go home and how he reacted upon getting close enough. It isn't hard to believe that some basic shapes would be a part of that programming, including that featureless face that the changelings seem to use among their lessers to, as pointed out in this episode, wave the flag of what they are. Also, just because their relaxed form is the goo, it doesn't mean that is their only natural form. They were, by their own admission, once solids. It could be that face is easiest for Odo because it is the changeling' species natural face from when they were still solid and thus that face is just natural for them to assume when they assume the shape of 'themselves' as a solid.
There's a couple throwaway lines in some episodes of DS9 about when the baby changelings were set out across the galaxy that they were adjusted to where they would not be able to properly mimic humanoids so that they do not "fit in". That is why Laas has the same issue. The "homeworld" changelings wear Odo face after meeting Odo as a form of recognition as they are trying to institute a familial feeling within him.... these issues are directly addressed in single lines like one time each but just glossed over
I thought the first time they encountered Odo, they said they were taking on Odo’s appearance to make him feel more comfortable with them? Also the difference between Changlings and shapeshifters is that shapeshifters have basic skeletal structures and only really take on the appearance of things, vs Changelings actually become the thing they mimic, going so far as they can become fire, a chemical reaction.
Silly thought that popped into my head: Can we call the Comment response Not Actuallys "Not Even Not Actually Star Trek, Actually"? Highlights its lower-effort-than-Not-Actually, succinctly ties up the branding... Outside that, solid vid!
Hey Steve, Great episode as always, and your use of... how should I say it... more colorful metaphors... was not only appropriate, but awe inspiring, and made me smile big time. You are awesome. Odd question for you.. Where'd you get that big blue jumbo Star Trek logo mug?
I always figured the reason changelings look like November-Jack-o-Lanterns was because it was easier for them. If Odo being bad at faces produced his smushed up faceblob, then it stands to reason that a skilled changeling just throwing together a form with minimum effort would result in something similar. Remember that the founders view solids as trash. It seems logical that they would be wearing the shapeshifter equivalent of a stained white tank top and grey sweatpants most of the time.
An explanation for the "Odo" face on other changelings I found plausible is their familiarity to that given face/form. Odo formed a new face, and was that same humanoid for 200 years, so developed a his face, improving the details with experience. The others may require a similar development time (tho short for more experienced changelings) If a changeling has a model, like General Martok, an experienced changeling could emulate the face to near perfection.
In Herodotus' History he relates a conversation between Solon and Croesus wherein Solon insisted that a man could not be accurately labeled 'happy' until he was dead, for until that time misfortune or bad decisions or whatever could still occur to rob him of the things that created this happiness. I suspect that if he had been asked about being a 'good' or 'moral' man he would take a similar approach to the 'only good Nazi' question. He may or may not allow for the possibility of a person's redemption, but until a person's story is finished it is impossible to assess his morality in total. Until that point there always exists the possibility of an aboutface and any assessment you make is of that moment in time and subject to change by more information coming to light.
As far as Odo being the first shape-shifter encountered by Star Fleet: I can remember several shape shifting species that can modify their appearance and appear to be different species or different individuals. I think I can remember a couple that can become "animals" or are shown shape-shifting into non-sapient species. The Changelings are the only species I can remember off the top of my head that can become not only any sapient species or any non-sapient animal, but also mimic or merge with inorganic or inert objects or even complex chemical reactions without suffering any side effects. Frankly their ability to modify their physical properties while maintaining their conscious control and memories (how does a rock or a fire remember the experience?) borders on powers displayed by "reality manipulator" species but localized to just their own body mass.
On the subject of Odo's face, I always figured that the 'imperfect' face is actually intentionally designed to be a sort of 'blend of common humanoid facial features'. Likely programmed into him by the Founders like they did with the need to seek out their home.
Imagine that hypothetical civilization's horror when they eventually undertake their own warp 10 experiments, only for the test pilot to """"""evolve"""""" into some kind of horrible pink ape.
Their form also could be a version of their species before they evolved into their shape shifting form. After all it fits their way of doing things . DS9 treachery , Faith and the great river. Weyoun says the founders made certain they remembered their origins by making certain the Horta had bad taste buds
I do love Star Trek, it was the first sci-fi show I was introduced to (followed by B5 and Stargate). I will say that I'm not a fan of Discovery. I was hoping when it was announced they would finally move the story and timeline post-Nemesis. But we got a pre-ish-TOS era show instead. Then with that I knew the Enterprise under either April or Pike, not that I'm disappointed at seeing the ship, but I think natively the show would have been better in a different era adding more to the future of the story I've wanted to see since Nemesis and also not feel like it was tying into some nostalgia for TOS. Obviously the writers thought along these lines at some point too otherwise the end of season 2 wouldn't have been a thing. I was disappointed with the direction they took as well linking Burnham with Sarek and Spock. I think she would be far more interesting if she had been just been adopted by an aged T'Pol... now that would have been interesting and served as a fun narrative link between Enterprise and and DSC/TOS and would also explain Burnham's attitude towards battle, with T'Pol's own emotions being closer to the surface Burnham would emulate that and would have been told of the NX-01's encounters with the Klingons and Romulans and would explain that entire pilot episode "shot heard around the quadrant" a lot better. I am glad they decided to bring back Picard however, given what we know of the post Nemesis timeline in cannon from ST 2009 Romulus was destroyed. So to link that, the story from Nemesis with a presumably less hostile RSE after the battle of the Bassen Rift and Picard's link to them will be fascinating to watch and I hope post ST Picard that they continue building forward in the timeline and maybe deal with those displaced Jem Hedar ships that the prophets moved somewhere else in time.
Actually, the approach PZ Myers suggests what the writers should have did was actually what DC Fontana did in the TOS days and it shows in the episodes that she made major contributions in.
As soon as I saw it was a response video, I started waiting to see who and how someone complained about Steve's politics. I knew it was coming and I was not disappointed. I don't always have the same opinion as Steve, but he is very upfront in his unapologetic political opinions. I do agree with him questioning why crediting DC Fontain (which I think I spelled wrong) is political.
Damar's life and death was very Roman, especially in the Shakespeare play, Julius Caesar. In the sense that he, like Garrak, spent his life in service of Cardassia and died in service Cardassia. In a sense he was less loyal to Cardassia than Garrak because Garrak had no issues of betraying friends if it served Cardassia. Where as Damar could never separate his loyalty to Cardassia from his loyalty to Dukat. In fact there is a scene when Garrak is sitting with Tayn and he says that he never betrayed Cardassia, at least not in his heart. Which I find very compelling because you prior to that comment. Tayn makes it clear that he views the the Obssidian Order as Cardassia, and "HE, Tayn" WAS the obsidian order. So Garrak's reply to him, in my mind, was Garrak saying "HEY! Cardassia is Cardassia, and you and I and the Obsidian Order are just tools that serve it. I may have betrayed you but I NEVER, betrayed Cardassia. Remember your place." Then we have Damar who sees Dukat and Cardassia as the same thing. And in the end he sees the folly of that thinking since Dukat's ambition was only to serve himself and not Cardassia. I like to think that in the end Damar saw that but I don't think he did.
It is just my head cannon, but I always imagine that the Founders were originally the same species in the TNG episode "The Chase". They look similar, and Salome Jens played both a Founder and the Humanoid Progenitor (also founder and progenitor are linguistically close too). The Founders are stated to once be similar to solids. So the appearance of the Founders could look the way they do because it is similar to how they once looked when they were the Progenitors, and it is easy for them to assume that form (which is why Odo looks the way he does until he learns to control his shape changing ability better). But this is just my head cannon. 😎
In regards to the Anti-Vax argument for “Genesis” - keep in mind the time period that episode was written in. I’m sure it was just a convenient plot device that truly falls under the recurring “Starfleet technology screws things up again” and no political side meaning. That movement wasn’t nearly as prevalent in the 90’s, but because it is now, you can see passing connections to the hotbed topics. (I would say the same with “Children of Time” and abortion as well”) Also - Tim R. would be a prime candidate for an unfortunate “de-evolution” quandary in Star Trek. When he finally evolves into a decent compassionate human being we can consider it.
A propos Vulcans in Starfleet, in Journey to Babel it's mentioned that there are other Vulcans on the Enterprise, though it's never specified if they are crew members or not, and we sadly never see them.
It was almost a clever pun. In 1969 she was nominated for a Writers Guild of America Award for an episode of Then Came Bronson, titled "Two Percent of Nothing"
Also, in an unrelated note; it's a terrible shame that Voyager missed the opportunity to name the EMH "Doc Hologram".... that among other shames that could be heaped on that show.
Three things. I liked the Griffin gag because who is to say given millions of years a quadrupedal species would not eventually become a bipedal species. Also, what are Khajiit in The Elder Scrolls series but bipedal talking felines? The Griffin of Earth mythology could have been an early proto Griffin-person, their missing link for example. The comments on criticizing something you love around 24 minutes in to 28 minutes in, that's something the Pokemon community needs to hear. I critique the current Pokemon games not because I hate Pokemon as a media franchise, but because I dislike the direction they have taken in the past several years and feel that it could be better than the product they have delivered. And lastly, the scientist bit. I liked it. It was a little much, but I did like the bit overall. Maybe next time you decide to so something like that, prep the script and pay someone else to deliver the lines in a costume in front of a green screen, I'm sure you could maybe find someone to do it on Fiverr, that way you aren't playing both the scientist and "podunk youtuber".
An alternate theory of why cchangelings make that face that could be a both/and with yours: I thought that the sort of abstract face Odo had was easier than copying a specific human, so my guess has always been that the other changelings were not bothering to put a full face on when they didn't need to because it was less work to imagine a specific solid face to copy and hold for extended interactions where they didn't need to.
For the question where they asked why changelings look like odo does when assuming a humanoid form, I thought maybe another reason was that so they'd look like odo to make him feel more comfortable because nothing else looks like him in that form. I think you made a great point too though
Re: Spock as "only" Vulcan in Star Fleet, I see it as more along the lines of, due to their emotionalism, Vulcans generally found working closely with humans distasteful. Thus, while not completely unique as a member of Star Fleet, he is uncommon in that he works primarily with humans instead of other Vulcans.
Odo meeting people who look like him would have been a huge deal to him. He is always apart from his adopted community and they may have been deliberately whetting his appetite to be part of their society and simultaneously emphasising that he is one of them.
I just started ds9 and im on s3 e4 and my favorite series was voyager then the animated series then enterprise now ds9. Favorite characters: quark and odo
I always thought the idea was just that Spock was the first Vulcan to go join Starfleet, hence the first to graduate and become a Starfleet officer. I think that's why there was an Enterprise episode where T'Pol was offered a Starfleet rank if the Vulcan's kicked her out of their military but it didn't .end up happening because, then, Spock wouldn't be the first Vulcan in Starfleet and that was too important a part of Spock's concept.
About the changeling face thing: my assumption has always been similar to the "real world reason:" changelings have set themselves up as literal GODS. Being recognizable as a member of the GOD RACE is important, so they've collectively decided to go with that particular humanoid form. That it's easier for them to do than to emulate a specific humanoid is a side benefit (and also explains why Odo ended up in a similar form).
I think to meet the canon of Spock being the first Vulcan to go to starfleet academy, other Vulcans in Starfleet were commissioned in Starfleet after attending the Vulcan science academy.
I'm gay, but must say hypothetical Gay-Steve has - relative to me - quite distinct tastes. You should consider pursuing them. (Joke, hope I didn't make you too uncomfortable.) Some more more thoughts; your stretch on the Griffin thing DID bug me because it felt a bit like misinformation, and the Cardassians always remind me of a fusion of Nazi Germany and The British Empire - Bajor bears resemblance to not just Hitler's Holocaust but also, among others, Irish and Indian occupation - I do worry it might be almost letting humanity off lightly by just comparing them to Nazis; but much more importantly that misogynist and the alt-right scum who thinks giving credit to a woman where its due needs to be eaten alive for that... preferably by a Griffin so you can enjoy the edutainment of watching it. (Also the slight Shakespearan edge of the Cardassians AND their love for their literature, and their flamboyance... a hell of a lot of small things scream 'British influenced'; British Cardassians also acts an amusing predictive text to some degree. From a 'predictive' stand-point Bajor joining the Federation can be argued to mirror Ireland joining the EU and quickly being transformed from a third-world country to a true stake-holder in the world that acts as an important gateway for trade, and makes the Dominion a metaphor for the seduction of Brexiteer fascism. Variants of that reading also work for India's massive growth instead of Ireland though, and I'm sure there examples beyond the British Empire and Nazi Germany that warrant consideration too depressingly. Truthfully Cardassia just currently seems like a strong warning to Britain about their specific brand of toxic patriotism which lead to Brexit, and the ways it kinda rhymes with the toxic patriotism of Cardassia that lead to joining the Dominion.)
Love this, often have similar thoughts. Too many people like to downplay the actions of the British Empire, or assuage their guilt by the WW2 win (we accrued all the power and were then the only ones in a position to mobilise troops on that level? Seems a bit self-fulfilling.)
@@kaitlyn__L Also on a much much lighter note there is the association both have with the idea of "secret service spies". While America and certainly Russia have - and Nazi Germany definitely did too - a lot of that the natural association in media for that is still British even for the Americans.
@xdarkprince don't forget the Federation in amongst all this, which profits (albeit not in the strict monetary sense anymore) from coming from species that did bad stuff in their past, and is now committed to finding compromises and treaties to absolutely every conflict (at least until the Borg and the Dominion showed up to wake them up). They're dogmatically dedicated to "seeing both sides" even when there's an obvious power imbalance.
@@kaitlyn__L European ideal, flaws and all. That and Bajor having implications of having once been a planet of Saints and Scholars are why it seems to draw a comparison to me (among many other comparisons) to Ireland.
In response to mymagnificentoctupus: I can draw with almost photorealistic detail anything I can see. If you all me to draw something out of my head it comes out as a caricature. Changelings may be similar: they can copy a specific person but when they try to just be humanoid, it comes out generic.
There's a planet (a couple actually) of dragons that are surely technically not dragons. So, they can be griffins. I'm sure magical quadrupeds could go biped if desired. I give that race the family Grypus, the genus gryphem, and species sapiens. Descended from gryphem erectus. the quadrupedal grypus gryps leo are spot on to our griffins of lore and beloved pets... Or so I tell me.
I'm very sorry, I had no idea what you were trying to do with your professor guy in the evolution video. Please excuse the comment I left. I love your show, and look forward to every one! 🤗🤗
Hi Steve ... i really enjoy your star trek videos... your takes on all the ST series are very entertaining. i'd like to hear who you like as best Engineer or best security officer .etc.. maybe you can rank them ... like top 5 or something ie Scotty vs jordi vs torres vs Tripp vs o brian ?? ( id go torres , Tripp , Laforge, scotty , then ds9 obrian) just a thought for a not trek actually but different than reading comments :) Happy New Year
23:28 it's helpful when confronting these people to remember that their mentality is the same that only grudgingly agreed to emancipation in the middle of the 19th century, then immediately got busy creating the KKK and jim crow law and then spreading the cultural myth in every direction it could possibly go, that the recently emancipated people were in fact lazy and lacked social virtue on a fundamental level. Same crowd. Maybe you know this already, but I always love how pitch perfect your response is to these people. Thank you for going for their juggular.
Re: DC Fontana, 12% of Star Trek makes her pretty much second only to Roddenberry in forming the Trek universe.
Definitely the top Four. I seem to recall that John D.F. Black and Her Solow always claimed they created most of the stuff we associate with Star Trek. I don't know if that is true but it was very common for executive producers in those days to have a basic idea and then claim all the creative credit even though other writers fleshed out those basic ideas. But D.C. Fontana, as mentioned, rewrote many stories that were drastically different including "City on the Edge of Forever" which, with all due respect to Harlan Ellison, just didn't work in its original form when dealing with characters who have to be back the next week and every week in a series. Anyone trying to say she was not overwhelmingly significant to the success of Star Trek is, at best, ignorant and, at worst, something worse than ignorant.
"You ever reach for a gag?
... I think you know how I meant it."
Steve getting freaky with daddy Odo tonight, bois.
Daddy-Odo is one of the few entities who could well and truly embody the retort "I'm more man that you'll ever be and more woman than you'll ever get!"
Unless he's talking to Kira. In which case, he'd be wrong on both counts.
@@twelvefootnine I understood that reference.
Odo likes ball gags.
Daddy Odo Supremacy 👑😏🧪❤
M. M. M. I
Nobody:
Steve: "Future Odo is a daddy"
Also Steve: "Why are you booing me, I'm right!"
Thanks, Steve! Also, for the record, you are right. He was a total daddy.
Almost a daddy... He needed a beard to be a true daddy.
I’m more of an Uncle. My sister calls “Uncle Frank” but that’s also a reference to Frank Zappa.
Steve: you’re a future daddy. 😘🌈
This actually confused the heck out of me, both in the original vid and here, until I realized it was being used as some kind of slang term I've missed. I just knew I was almost certain Odo didn't have any descendants of his own on the colony he callously wiped from existence.
I always assumed that the changelings took Odo's imperfect face in order to reach out to him, to be closer to him.
I vaguely remember reading in one of the books Odo and another character speculating that the Founders somehow inserted some kind of "facial inhibitor" in the Hundred (perhaps as part of the same genetic alteration that implanted and/or amplified the urge to come home) so they couldn't get too comfortable among solids to actually fulfill their purpose.
But yeah, it makes a lot of sense that they'd emulate his "unfinished" face in order to make him feel at home when they first meet.
@@rhisands2063 Well, they do look like the precursor race from the TNG episode "The Chase" (who are also The Preservers in Star Trek Online) so it is plausible.
I always saw the founders as asexual. That their female & male split is a mocking of solids
@@rhisands2063 that first one is always what I figured.
I might be wrong but I feel like the founder says that to odo at one point early in their relationship
I wish people were more honest. The whole "keep your politics out of x" argument really means, "Keep everything aligned to *my* political views or don't even mention it.".
Personally, I came to your channel for the Star Trek and I've stayed because of the politics.
it's the right-wing mantra. "Keep politics out of it, unless you think like me and then you should shove it in my face".
Deeply ironic too, given how political the statement is when you consider that that is the actual meaning. Nothing is really apolitical, some things only *seem* apolitical because they don't openly challenge the status quo, or at least the political positions of the viewer, and people only get upset about things "getting political" when they challenge the viewer's, often pro-status quo, politics.
Likewise, came for the Trek, stayed for the trek.
I came for the politics and stayed because of the Star Trek.
Same!
I'm straight, but Odo is one handsome chap, and if someone can't handle that, then that person has some life to live first.
Are comment responses the bottom of the creative barrel? Yes.
Do we appreciate the responses? Yes.
14:20 I didn't expect my posting to be read and addressed on this installment! I was aware of the controversy attached to "Yesteryear" and the courage expressed in Gene's "Trust Dorothy" response to Filmation's hesitancy in airing it. I was 14 years old when I saw it and 17 when I lost Prince so I'd like to think of myself as one "young person" that wasn't marred by this excellent "cartoon" episode. Thank you very much for posting and addressing my comment and your kind words regarding my loss.
The USS Actually is a Nova-class, but outfitted for intercepting and analysing media from the planets it's observing.
I enjoyed the episode where the Actually crew defeated the TSS - MAGA by beaming all the bullshit they were creating back onto their ship
I always assumed the changelings mimicked Odo when he first met them to make him comfortable, but then eventually it morphed into a form of mockery of Odo.
Clint Harden I really like that interpretation.
I always thought that the Changelings kept their faces as a fu to solids. Embracing their "We're not Solids " . Sort of like embracing the "N" word or the "Q" word.
The comment in question was faulty from the start. Other changelings DO demonstrably have the ability to perfectly mimic solids. They perfectly mimic at least one Klingon and several humans. They can even mimic red blood. That was a huge plot point in the later run of the series. So obviously they choose to look how they look at any given point. Assuming they haven't been given a disease.
I would go so far as to say even Odo could by the time of the start of the show likely do better or even perfect mimicry but as his shown form was something he saw as an identity he likely maintained it flaws and all. This is obviously a possibility because he does choose to return to that form consistently even though he could easily take on any number of other forms at will even if those forms are equally imperfect. He could do an imperfect human female, or an imperfect Klingon. Or even an imperfect version of his usual form with a different body type. Hell if there were ever a trek character ripe for easy recasting its Odo!
@@OllamhDrab that's true, for all their claims of being fearful of others and protecting them selves they go out of their way to engage, on their terms of course.
I think though that from the early DS9 episodes Odo was going for a Bajoran face but couldn't get the nose right. And that's where his default humanoid look came from.
Forget future Odo, Odo-Curzon is the really daddy.
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Truth.
damn right I'm not gay but I touch myself to odo-curzon
Now this I can get behind
YES!! SEXY ODO-CURZON
The weird thing about Cardassia as an eternally fascist state is that in one of the other very, very prominent Cardassian episodes, Chain of Command, Gul David Warner describes growing up before Central Command came to power, and how it took hold after a time of famine and strife on Cardassia. All the deep-seated tendencies to torture and oppression are just the result of some very effective restructuring of Cardassian society.
Later writers played with the idea of the Cardassians just being built differently, being biologically built to more likely accept fascism so that the horrors of Cardassian life are more of an alien curiosity than a mirror of what humanity can do, but that episode understood that fascism doesn't need long to set itself up, and after it sets itself up, it tends to try rewriting history to insert itself deeper. If you want to really be spooked, look up the Third Wave, where a teacher as an experiment wound up creating a fascist movement that started going out of control in just a week.
I’ve been witnessed! Thought you’d like the MASH reference :D
I thought they invoked a little-known, seldom-used reserve activation clause.
it is kind ironic and sad, that someone who had to use a mans name to get work in the 60s, is being slagged off by men in 2019, and by Star Trek fans no less. Its like they dont even understand the message of the show they claim to be fans of.
Na so much ironic as depressingly contiguous
Or how much the original fans of the show Were Mostly Women!
@@dwc1964 I dont think she was wanted to work to be viewed in a gender blind fashion, in some 2019, 2020 way, she wanted to not be written off, because it was written by a woman, in that time, that meant suggesting you were male. Its not a knock on her, its just the reality of her times
@@dwc1964 true, but that is still allowing your work to be thought of as been written by a man.
@@dwc1964 look, she said her self that she chose the initials so that people wouldn't know she was a woman, arguing semantics about whether that means she was going for Male or not missed the point by a mile. Being a woman was and still is a hindrance to many if not most career paths, and trek fans that want to dismiss her or the tmreality she lived in are missing the point.
"Future Odo is a Daddy" is a take I never expected from a Straight guy, but, damn, you right.
@@jjmfrees DILF dude.
He was never the only vulcan in starfleet. He was the _first_ vulcan to goto starfleet academy.
You know.... I have to be honest, I find that episode nearly *insanely sad.*
Because, when you think about it, there are themes of hope, rejuvenation, purpose and honest sacrifice ranging in a dozen different formats throughout that episode, from Dax being a different person, to Quark becoming a teaching program for children, to Miles O'Brien eventually falling in love again...... And again, if Starfleet's most *DANGEROUS GODDAMN ENGINEER IMAGINABLE* can't fix the problem, I suspect no one can, and he found love and children again.....
And Odo *grew* as a person. Became more complete. You're dead on the money, he became sadder. He wasn't diminished by his sadness, it enhanced him, and he had centuries to learn from his mistakes.
And he committed suicide and murdered *THOUSANDS* of people to save his soul-mate. To merely give her a chance, he killed himself and committed genocide.
............ And I *UNDERSTAND!* And that's horrible, but I *UNDERSTAND!*
I know what it is to love, lose your love, and suffer for it.
And I *UNDERSTAND* that, if I were given the opportunity to commit atrocities to ensure that my love survived, even if I didn't......... I'd do it, too. Even knowing it's evil.
Sorry to be a fucking *snowflake* here, but I'm actually crying as I write this because goddamn Star Trek pulled that out of me. Twenty years in the past, and the mere concept of that morally complex episode pulls at my soul on levels I'm not comfortable with.
I mean, Kira *REALIZES* she's going to die, and that's her fate, and that this is just what her destiny *IS* and she accepts that, knowing that a life of purpose and happiness awaits thousands....... And she embraces it.
*EVERYONE* eventually does the Starfleet, "Well, we'll just make the best of things" routine. Which is fine, noble, moral and honest. They're willing to sacrifice their personal lives and ambitions to ensure that these hundreds of people will exist.
But Odo loves Kira on such a level that defies morality itself........
Steve! Man, I haven't seen one of your videos since last year! (With daddy in the title, I'll reach and do a dad joke. What the hell...)
I know you half-jokingly bash these vids since you don't need as much prep time for them. Just wanna say that I always enjoy your smacking down of the dumb comments. Always puts a smile on my face.
I suppose it says something about me that I read that title and thought, "Oh, wait, did Future Odo in that episode have kids?"
Same!!! I'm actually a bit embarrassed because I am a fairly kinky fellow yet that one flew straight over my head.
I learned the term "leading your shot" from video games. SO many dead Nazis and aliens and zombies and alien Nazi zombies.
Take that, ya kraut bastard!
~ Me, 8 Years Old.
I admit it, I'm partly here to watch Steve smack down those idiotic comments about "politics".
Come for the Star Trek, stay for the incel spanking.
Three months late to the party and your defense of Daddy broke me and earned the hell out of that like from me.
Aaaand the shout out for my terrrrrrible puns. Sweet delicious validation. It gives me life.
Back when I was in college some friends and I debated, "why do changelings choose to look like Odo" and came up with pretty much the same answer you did. One thing we thought was funny though was that Odo copied his hair style from Mora Pol, the Bajorian scientist who studied him as a child. So Mora Pol's hairstyle choice was inadvertently transferred to an entire species-- at least when they were in their solid form. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
One might also assume that forming and maintaining any sort of complex appearance requires more concentration and effort for a changeling. So if they don't *have* to mimic a particular solid, a simplified appearance might be preferred. Though that said I always thought it was a missed opportunity that future Odo wasn't just Rene Auberjonois without any make-up at all.
Sort of my feelings as well, like flexing a muscle.
"Is future Odo a daddy?"
It's not the only reason I watched this clip, but it's a big part of it. #represntation
Damar & Rusot show the difference between a Patriot & a Nationalist. (Or in this case a Freedom Fighter & a Terrorist)
Damar is willing to forget he used to hate of Kira because his priority is freeing Cardassia.
And he asked for help because he took a clear eyed view of Cardassia’s position, assessed its strengths & weaknesses and did what he needed to do to fix them.
I’m always struck by the fact that he had brought in cooling unit for her - I think he was genuinely grateful for her help.
Rusot on the other hand is more interested in proving the superiority of Cardassians. He can’t bear the thought that they “need” the help of Bajorans. He’d rather believe that myth than help his people.
And he wants to hit out against the dominion more than he wants to strategically help Cardassia.
Hey Steve, love the video, just wanted to point out that the episode mentioning an ‘ all-Vulcan crew ‘ is “ Take Me Out To The Holosuite “, and the all-Vulcan crew is that of Captain Solok, the petty Vulcan that challenges Captain Sisko to a baseball game, on the basis on the claim that his all-Vulcan crew will beat them because Vulcans are superior to most other humanoids, mainly humans And no, I didn’t have to look that up! 😊
Hey Steve, first off, great videos, love your work. Your sense of humor and views of the Trek-verse aren't just entertaining, but informative too. After your quite colorful response to the DC Fontana hater (GFY!!!) I thought I should let you know that Epoch Times is an advertiser on your page. Based on your political leanings this seems to be a bit off.
Could you do a video specifically slamming them so they are paying for ads for you to destroy their lies?
Thanks and keep up the great work!
I've been an avid follower of your channel for over a year now and recommended you to many people. Absolutely love all your content. I don't know what it was about this video in particular that pushed me to being a patreon patron (especially since it was just a late night re-watch, I'd already seen this one) but honestly, can't believe I wasn't already. You're a real one Steve. Thanks for the thoughtful analysis and creating one of the few spaces for Trek discussion that isn't completely full of vitriol. Thanks I guess too then, to the rest of your subscribers. The comments section of your videos can usually be counted on for some really interesting follow up reading. Hope the monthly donation helps. Keep doing what you do!
We know by inference in the TOS episode “The Immunity Syndrome” that Spock is far from the only Vulcan in Starfleet. The entire crew of the USS Intrepid NCC 1631 were, in fact Vulcan. As Vulcans are founding members of the UFP, it only makes sense that some of them would also serve in Starfleet. Sorry Steve...good response video anyway.
My understanding is that Spock is the first Vulcan-Human offspring (don't care for hybrid as a term) to survive to maturity and is therefore the first of those to service in Starfleet.
There's been references in later series, including DS9, that at least post-TOS, it's extremely common (if not the norm) for Starfleet ships to have crew of primarily one Federation species. Makes me wonder if other major Federation planets have their own versions (or campuses?) of Starfleet Academy. I guess it makes sense that not many Vulcans would wish to join a paramilitary organization, but I can't imagine Andorians or possibly even Tellarites being against joining the Federation's main defense force, but we don't see a bunch of Andorians or Tellarites wandering around STA:SF (or would it be STA:E?).
I would personaly say Yesteryear was probably up there as one of the best episodes in all the series because how it spark the imaginations of a generation. Dc Fontana even introduced the first holodeck. As a kid, when my friends and I saw the both "Yesteryear" and "The Practical Joker" these episode were talked about heavaly in school come monday morning and were part of our play time. We wanted the figure out how to make this all come to reality. I would argue that the whole tech boom may not have exploded like it did if not for star trek. To bad you didn't grow up seeing these shows coming out for the first time you would have loved it.
I became a Star Trek fan about 35 years ago. At the time, there were 79 episodes, 3 movies, and rumors of an animated series that many of my friends didn't believe existed. I could rent the 3 (and eventually 4) movies at the corner video store whenever I wanted, but seeing episodes of TOS at this point wasn't easy. It had been replaced by other shows (at least in my area) for the "after school syndication", and was relegated to middle of the night or weekend afternoon (if it wasn't pre-empted for sports). I read a lot of the Pocket Books novels (some of which are quite good), and caught episodes where I could. I bought a lot of the supplemental materials (episode guides, James Blish novelizations, behind the scenes books, RPG material, etc). Eventually, I would buy the series on VHS through CBS/Columbia House - 2 episodes per tape, 1 tape every 6 weeks - ($19.95each + $5 shipping). It took me all of high school and into college to amass the full series. It required several bookshelves to display and filled a full sized foot locker for storage.
15 years ago, my wife bought me the same series on DVD, it took up 6 inches of bookshelf space (if I wanted to display it in the fancy plastic cases).
Today, I can tap my phone no more than 10 times, and get to a menu where I can can watch any episode of any series of Trek whenever I want to. That's pretty cool.
This was an intellectual and respectful discussion.
I love your videos. It is awesome to see someone so volatile yet positive! I don’t think that I’ve ever found that combination in anyone else.
Your stuff about about the Orange Impeached Gorilla is so spot on, passionate, and well informed that I’ve shared it around more than once. My mom even likes your work. And your Star Trek stuff is not only informative but it fires so many shots at the toxicity often found in fan communities.
Please keep it up!
Just for the record, it's Major Margaret "Hot Lips" Houlihan (Sally Kellerman) who asks how "how a degenerated person like that could reach a position of responsibility in the Army Medical Corps?" in the original movie version of M*A*S*H. And yes, it was Hawkeye. (Donald Sutherland).
dwc1964 if I’m remembering right MASH movie was also the first MPAA motion picture in America that had the utterance of Fuck, during the football game
Mash the tv show is one of my favorite shows so I loved the reference. Yes, it was about Hawkeye and the movie was the first movie to use fuck.
The changelings initially took on an odo-face because they wanted to connect to odo, and show their solidarity because they wanted to convince him to join the great link, later on, the female boss changeling (forgot the name) linked with odo, and so she might have absorbed his comfort with that form into herself.
Only from that point onwards did she actually use odo-face with people who aren't odo (the cardassians for example)
I just noticed that the Niners logo uses a set of the station pylons as the other side of the baseball stitching. Clever.
Only took me 20 years.
My favorite part of this video was seeing PZ show up. I went to college at University of Minnesota-Morris and got to see him fairly regularly. It is always fun to see different aspects of one's life intersect, very cool.
One thing I've wondered is why everyone in Next Generation and later still wear cumbersome space suits when going outside their ship when they had personal force fields in the Animated Series.
We all know the real answer, but in-universe I imagine having the only barrier between you and certain death being an ephemeral field projected by a belt-pack would be rather off-putting.
Still, a much sleeker bodysuit that happened to also have such a force field emitter that did the heavy lifting is probably more realistic than a spacesuit that looks like ours in the 20th century. *shrug*
i could have sworn in the first encounter with the female changeling that they had the same face setup as him as a way to connect with him. that all the changelings minus the one that did the fog thing was told to do so for odo sake
Happy New Year! Thanks for the new content. Great episode as always. 🙂
I just wanted to tell you that I just started listening to The Ensign's Log and that I really enjoy it! You and Jason are doing a fantastic job. I finished the first nine episodes on a drive from Ohio to Chicago on Sunday. And I listened to two more last night.
OMG! Baby! Spot! Tina the Iguana! Beautiful work. Kudos.
All of this has finally convinced me to donate to your Patreon. I cannot afford much, but I want to help keep you making these videos and podcasts.
Thanks for all your hard work.
I disagree with the negative comments on the Evolution Episode. I love it when you experiment with your format like in that one, the Tasha Yar funeral one, and the time travel loop.
I, too, love the experimenting with the format, the two others that you mentioned as well as the "Who Ruined the Borg?" episode, being great examples and I love those three. I, personally, feel it just didn't really work in the evolution episode.
I think something that has clicked in my head from your examination of the various cardassian characters is that the overall plot for cardassia/cardassians was predicted in the season 2 episode "The Wire", when garak talks about the cardassian epic "The Never Ending Sacrifice".
However, the true story of cardassia is turned on the head of what the novel says, the sacrifice isn't one of upholding the state, it's one of protecting the people, and every major cardassian character throughout the series looks upon this sacrifice, though some make better choices than others.
Steve, when Picard airs I'm gonna unfortunately be on holiday in Austria, so please can we have a spoiler free first review. Yes, I'm actually lamenting the fact that a great holiday is affecting my TV watching!
I had sort of assumed that the Odo like facial appearance might have been a genetic memory from the link of the default humanoid appearance they use. Do I remember correctly the in one episode it was mentioned that the founders were once solids who evolved into changlings? If so, maybe that look was thier original solid appearance. Plus I think the actress who portrayed the lead founder was also on TNG as the hologram from the race that seeded all the humanoid races. Maybe the founders are also a product of that race or thier descendants. Wouldent that be ironic?
Timeline wise, Tuvoc would have been in the Academy at the time of TOS.
Steve the things you talk about in your star trek makes sense to me. I don't know a lot about many subjects yet your star trek stuff makes sense
Your comment on the literary or dramatic necessity of Damar's death got me thinking about his redemption through death. From a literary perspective, could we see Damar's redemption ironically as a moment of tragedy? As the original comment pointed out, he had been risking his life throughout. I see this as not only his path to redemption, but his *struggle to reach* redemption. It is only in death that the struggle finally ends. His redemption, therefore, is achieved through a tragic climax to the character's story arc. Damar becomes a cautionary exemplar for the audience, his story a moral lens through which we get to assess moral choices, regret, and the scars of the past. It also serves as a moral lens through which we can assess the choices of *other* characters. I recall the brilliant performance of Avery Brooks in the episode "In the Pale Moonlight", where Sisko nearly slips into moral darkness that had engulfed Garak, Damar, and others. In considering Damar's own tragic redemption (and he is redeemed through tragedy), I get to see the real danger facing Sisko as our good captain is teetering on the edge. DS9 was great at engaging the moral ambiguity in humanity and the impact of humanity's choices.
Regarding Odo's resembling the other Changelings in their default humanoid, but 'not impersonating another being form' -- it's pretty clear that the changelings have ingrained Odo with some genetic memory and programming. They admit to it a degree when they explain how they sent Odo out with the intent that he would go home and how he reacted upon getting close enough. It isn't hard to believe that some basic shapes would be a part of that programming, including that featureless face that the changelings seem to use among their lessers to, as pointed out in this episode, wave the flag of what they are.
Also, just because their relaxed form is the goo, it doesn't mean that is their only natural form. They were, by their own admission, once solids. It could be that face is easiest for Odo because it is the changeling' species natural face from when they were still solid and thus that face is just natural for them to assume when they assume the shape of 'themselves' as a solid.
There's a couple throwaway lines in some episodes of DS9 about when the baby changelings were set out across the galaxy that they were adjusted to where they would not be able to properly mimic humanoids so that they do not "fit in". That is why Laas has the same issue. The "homeworld" changelings wear Odo face after meeting Odo as a form of recognition as they are trying to institute a familial feeling within him.... these issues are directly addressed in single lines like one time each but just glossed over
I thought the first time they encountered Odo, they said they were taking on Odo’s appearance to make him feel more comfortable with them? Also the difference between Changlings and shapeshifters is that shapeshifters have basic skeletal structures and only really take on the appearance of things, vs Changelings actually become the thing they mimic, going so far as they can become fire, a chemical reaction.
PZ Myers rocks!!!!
Silly thought that popped into my head:
Can we call the Comment response Not Actuallys "Not Even Not Actually Star Trek, Actually"?
Highlights its lower-effort-than-Not-Actually, succinctly ties up the branding...
Outside that, solid vid!
Absolutely love this video and love your defending of ur comments ❤👌😂🖖
Hey Steve,
Great episode as always, and your use of... how should I say it... more colorful metaphors... was not only appropriate, but awe inspiring, and made me smile big time. You are awesome.
Odd question for you.. Where'd you get that big blue jumbo Star Trek logo mug?
I always figured the reason changelings look like November-Jack-o-Lanterns was because it was easier for them. If Odo being bad at faces produced his smushed up faceblob, then it stands to reason that a skilled changeling just throwing together a form with minimum effort would result in something similar. Remember that the founders view solids as trash. It seems logical that they would be wearing the shapeshifter equivalent of a stained white tank top and grey sweatpants most of the time.
An explanation for the "Odo" face on other changelings I found plausible is their familiarity to that given face/form. Odo formed a new face, and was that same humanoid for 200 years, so developed a his face, improving the details with experience. The others may require a similar development time (tho short for more experienced changelings) If a changeling has a model, like General Martok, an experienced changeling could emulate the face to near perfection.
In Herodotus' History he relates a conversation between Solon and Croesus wherein Solon insisted that a man could not be accurately labeled 'happy' until he was dead, for until that time misfortune or bad decisions or whatever could still occur to rob him of the things that created this happiness. I suspect that if he had been asked about being a 'good' or 'moral' man he would take a similar approach to the 'only good Nazi' question.
He may or may not allow for the possibility of a person's redemption, but until a person's story is finished it is impossible to assess his morality in total. Until that point there always exists the possibility of an aboutface and any assessment you make is of that moment in time and subject to change by more information coming to light.
I thought of the animated Griffin as a forerunner of Griff from Disney's Gargoyles
This is a wonderful format, please do this again & again 😃😃😃
I love it when you go off at the incels in the comments hahaha
As far as Odo being the first shape-shifter encountered by Star Fleet:
I can remember several shape shifting species that can modify their appearance and appear to be different species or different individuals. I think I can remember a couple that can become "animals" or are shown shape-shifting into non-sapient species.
The Changelings are the only species I can remember off the top of my head that can become not only any sapient species or any non-sapient animal, but also mimic or merge with inorganic or inert objects or even complex chemical reactions without suffering any side effects.
Frankly their ability to modify their physical properties while maintaining their conscious control and memories (how does a rock or a fire remember the experience?) borders on powers displayed by "reality manipulator" species but localized to just their own body mass.
He didn't say that odo was the first shape shifter, he was the first of that species of shape shifter that call themselves changelings.
Scripted Steve is best Steve. But that don't mean that lazy Steve isn't good Steve. I hope you keep doing weird shit in the future, too.
On the subject of Odo's face, I always figured that the 'imperfect' face is actually intentionally designed to be a sort of 'blend of common humanoid facial features'. Likely programmed into him by the Founders like they did with the need to seek out their home.
I hope a future _Trek_ series returns to the delta quadrant and finds that the Paris/Janeway salamander babies have conquered the planet.
Imagine that hypothetical civilization's horror when they eventually undertake their own warp 10 experiments, only for the test pilot to """"""evolve"""""" into some kind of horrible pink ape.
Their form also could be a version of their species before they evolved into their shape shifting form. After all it fits their way of doing things . DS9 treachery , Faith and the great river. Weyoun says the founders made certain they remembered their origins by making certain the Horta had bad taste buds
Just want to point out, I’m a different Tim R. Other Tim R is a disgrace to Tim Rs everywhere
I do love Star Trek, it was the first sci-fi show I was introduced to (followed by B5 and Stargate). I will say that I'm not a fan of Discovery. I was hoping when it was announced they would finally move the story and timeline post-Nemesis. But we got a pre-ish-TOS era show instead. Then with that I knew the Enterprise under either April or Pike, not that I'm disappointed at seeing the ship, but I think natively the show would have been better in a different era adding more to the future of the story I've wanted to see since Nemesis and also not feel like it was tying into some nostalgia for TOS. Obviously the writers thought along these lines at some point too otherwise the end of season 2 wouldn't have been a thing.
I was disappointed with the direction they took as well linking Burnham with Sarek and Spock. I think she would be far more interesting if she had been just been adopted by an aged T'Pol... now that would have been interesting and served as a fun narrative link between Enterprise and and DSC/TOS and would also explain Burnham's attitude towards battle, with T'Pol's own emotions being closer to the surface Burnham would emulate that and would have been told of the NX-01's encounters with the Klingons and Romulans and would explain that entire pilot episode "shot heard around the quadrant" a lot better.
I am glad they decided to bring back Picard however, given what we know of the post Nemesis timeline in cannon from ST 2009 Romulus was destroyed. So to link that, the story from Nemesis with a presumably less hostile RSE after the battle of the Bassen Rift and Picard's link to them will be fascinating to watch and I hope post ST Picard that they continue building forward in the timeline and maybe deal with those displaced Jem Hedar ships that the prophets moved somewhere else in time.
Actually, the approach PZ Myers suggests what the writers should have did was actually what DC Fontana did in the TOS days and it shows in the episodes that she made major contributions in.
Hi Steve, can you do an episode on TNG Ethics...because in my opinion Dr Crusher self righteousness seems to be at the detriment to her patient.
As soon as I saw it was a response video, I started waiting to see who and how someone complained about Steve's politics. I knew it was coming and I was not disappointed.
I don't always have the same opinion as Steve, but he is very upfront in his unapologetic political opinions.
I do agree with him questioning why crediting DC Fontain (which I think I spelled wrong) is political.
Damar's life and death was very Roman, especially in the Shakespeare play, Julius Caesar. In the sense that he, like Garrak, spent his life in service of Cardassia and died in service Cardassia.
In a sense he was less loyal to Cardassia than Garrak because Garrak had no issues of betraying friends if it served Cardassia. Where as Damar could never separate his loyalty to Cardassia from his loyalty to Dukat.
In fact there is a scene when Garrak is sitting with Tayn and he says that he never betrayed Cardassia, at least not in his heart. Which I find very compelling because you prior to that comment. Tayn makes it clear that he views the the Obssidian Order as Cardassia, and "HE, Tayn" WAS the obsidian order.
So Garrak's reply to him, in my mind, was Garrak saying "HEY! Cardassia is Cardassia, and you and I and the Obsidian Order are just tools that serve it. I may have betrayed you but I NEVER, betrayed Cardassia. Remember your place."
Then we have Damar who sees Dukat and Cardassia as the same thing. And in the end he sees the folly of that thinking since Dukat's ambition was only to serve himself and not Cardassia. I like to think that in the end Damar saw that but I don't think he did.
It is just my head cannon, but I always imagine that the Founders were originally the same species in the TNG episode "The Chase". They look similar, and Salome Jens played both a Founder and the Humanoid Progenitor (also founder and progenitor are linguistically close too). The Founders are stated to once be similar to solids.
So the appearance of the Founders could look the way they do because it is similar to how they once looked when they were the Progenitors, and it is easy for them to assume that form (which is why Odo looks the way he does until he learns to control his shape changing ability better).
But this is just my head cannon. 😎
In regards to the Anti-Vax argument for “Genesis” - keep in mind the time period that episode was written in. I’m sure it was just a convenient plot device that truly falls under the recurring “Starfleet technology screws things up again” and no political side meaning.
That movement wasn’t nearly as prevalent in the 90’s, but because it is now, you can see passing connections to the hotbed topics. (I would say the same with “Children of Time” and abortion as well”)
Also - Tim R. would be a prime candidate for an unfortunate “de-evolution” quandary in Star Trek.
When he finally evolves into a decent compassionate human being we can consider it.
Of course Odo is a daddy, agree 100+% with you, Steve. He is a hot, hot daddy (and the actor was as well, with respect to R. Auberjonois).
A propos Vulcans in Starfleet, in Journey to Babel it's mentioned that there are other Vulcans on the Enterprise, though it's never specified if they are crew members or not, and we sadly never see them.
t w e l v e p e r c e n t
I wonder how they came up with that number
It was almost a clever pun. In 1969 she was nominated for a Writers Guild of America Award for an episode of Then Came Bronson, titled "Two Percent of Nothing"
I think it may have come from somewhere in the vicinity of his posterior.
Hahahaha the daddy section, fantastic, you're an awesome hetero ally
Also, in an unrelated note; it's a terrible shame that Voyager missed the opportunity to name the EMH "Doc Hologram".... that among other shames that could be heaped on that show.
Three things.
I liked the Griffin gag because who is to say given millions of years a quadrupedal species would not eventually become a bipedal species. Also, what are Khajiit in The Elder Scrolls series but bipedal talking felines? The Griffin of Earth mythology could have been an early proto Griffin-person, their missing link for example.
The comments on criticizing something you love around 24 minutes in to 28 minutes in, that's something the Pokemon community needs to hear. I critique the current Pokemon games not because I hate Pokemon as a media franchise, but because I dislike the direction they have taken in the past several years and feel that it could be better than the product they have delivered.
And lastly, the scientist bit. I liked it. It was a little much, but I did like the bit overall. Maybe next time you decide to so something like that, prep the script and pay someone else to deliver the lines in a costume in front of a green screen, I'm sure you could maybe find someone to do it on Fiverr, that way you aren't playing both the scientist and "podunk youtuber".
An alternate theory of why cchangelings make that face that could be a both/and with yours:
I thought that the sort of abstract face Odo had was easier than copying a specific human, so my guess has always been that the other changelings were not bothering to put a full face on when they didn't need to because it was less work to imagine a specific solid face to copy and hold for extended interactions where they didn't need to.
For the question where they asked why changelings look like odo does when assuming a humanoid form, I thought maybe another reason was that so they'd look like odo to make him feel more comfortable because nothing else looks like him in that form. I think you made a great point too though
Re: Spock as "only" Vulcan in Star Fleet, I see it as more along the lines of, due to their emotionalism, Vulcans generally found working closely with humans distasteful. Thus, while not completely unique as a member of Star Fleet, he is uncommon in that he works primarily with humans instead of other Vulcans.
Odo meeting people who look like him would have been a huge deal to him. He is always apart from his adopted community and they may have been deliberately whetting his appetite to be part of their society and simultaneously emphasising that he is one of them.
I just started ds9 and im on s3 e4 and my favorite series was voyager then the animated series then enterprise now ds9.
Favorite characters: quark and odo
I wouldn't mind seeing more science oriented trek actually videos with commentary from that professor.
Hallelujah! BBC America finally started playing Star Trek:DS9! They mostly played TNG, TOS, VOY, but never DS9! Someone herd my cries!
We have a bipedal cat person and bipedal lizard people in Star Trek. I'm entirely on board with that character being a bipedal griffin person.
I honestly expected him to bring up a picture of M'ress and say "She's bipedal, she's still undeniably a cat" as a counterpoint during that response.
I always thought the idea was just that Spock was the first Vulcan to go join Starfleet, hence the first to graduate and become a Starfleet officer. I think that's why there was an Enterprise episode where T'Pol was offered a Starfleet rank if the Vulcan's kicked her out of their military but it didn't .end up happening because, then, Spock wouldn't be the first Vulcan in Starfleet and that was too important a part of Spock's concept.
About the changeling face thing: my assumption has always been similar to the "real world reason:" changelings have set themselves up as literal GODS. Being recognizable as a member of the GOD RACE is important, so they've collectively decided to go with that particular humanoid form. That it's easier for them to do than to emulate a specific humanoid is a side benefit (and also explains why Odo ended up in a similar form).
I think to meet the canon of Spock being the first Vulcan to go to starfleet academy, other Vulcans in Starfleet were commissioned in Starfleet after attending the Vulcan science academy.
I'm gay, but must say hypothetical Gay-Steve has - relative to me - quite distinct tastes. You should consider pursuing them. (Joke, hope I didn't make you too uncomfortable.)
Some more more thoughts; your stretch on the Griffin thing DID bug me because it felt a bit like misinformation, and the Cardassians always remind me of a fusion of Nazi Germany and The British Empire - Bajor bears resemblance to not just Hitler's Holocaust but also, among others, Irish and Indian occupation - I do worry it might be almost letting humanity off lightly by just comparing them to Nazis; but much more importantly that misogynist and the alt-right scum who thinks giving credit to a woman where its due needs to be eaten alive for that... preferably by a Griffin so you can enjoy the edutainment of watching it.
(Also the slight Shakespearan edge of the Cardassians AND their love for their literature, and their flamboyance... a hell of a lot of small things scream 'British influenced'; British Cardassians also acts an amusing predictive text to some degree. From a 'predictive' stand-point Bajor joining the Federation can be argued to mirror Ireland joining the EU and quickly being transformed from a third-world country to a true stake-holder in the world that acts as an important gateway for trade, and makes the Dominion a metaphor for the seduction of Brexiteer fascism. Variants of that reading also work for India's massive growth instead of Ireland though, and I'm sure there examples beyond the British Empire and Nazi Germany that warrant consideration too depressingly. Truthfully Cardassia just currently seems like a strong warning to Britain about their specific brand of toxic patriotism which lead to Brexit, and the ways it kinda rhymes with the toxic patriotism of Cardassia that lead to joining the Dominion.)
Love this, often have similar thoughts. Too many people like to downplay the actions of the British Empire, or assuage their guilt by the WW2 win (we accrued all the power and were then the only ones in a position to mobilise troops on that level? Seems a bit self-fulfilling.)
@@kaitlyn__L Also on a much much lighter note there is the association both have with the idea of "secret service spies". While America and certainly Russia have - and Nazi Germany definitely did too - a lot of that the natural association in media for that is still British even for the Americans.
@xdarkprince don't forget the Federation in amongst all this, which profits (albeit not in the strict monetary sense anymore) from coming from species that did bad stuff in their past, and is now committed to finding compromises and treaties to absolutely every conflict (at least until the Borg and the Dominion showed up to wake them up). They're dogmatically dedicated to "seeing both sides" even when there's an obvious power imbalance.
@@kaitlyn__L European ideal, flaws and all. That and Bajor having implications of having once been a planet of Saints and Scholars are why it seems to draw a comparison to me (among many other comparisons) to Ireland.
In response to mymagnificentoctupus: I can draw with almost photorealistic detail anything I can see. If you all me to draw something out of my head it comes out as a caricature. Changelings may be similar: they can copy a specific person but when they try to just be humanoid, it comes out generic.
There's a planet (a couple actually) of dragons that are surely technically not dragons. So, they can be griffins. I'm sure magical quadrupeds could go biped if desired. I give that race the family Grypus, the genus gryphem, and species sapiens. Descended from gryphem erectus. the quadrupedal grypus gryps leo are spot on to our griffins of lore and beloved pets... Or so I tell me.
Odo = Daddy with the ability to shift his, um, shape.
If anyone needs me, I'll be in my bunk.
I'm very sorry, I had no idea what you were trying to do with your professor guy in the evolution video. Please excuse the comment I left. I love your show, and look forward to every one! 🤗🤗
Hi Steve ... i really enjoy your star trek videos... your takes on all the ST series are very entertaining. i'd like to hear who you like as best Engineer or best security officer .etc.. maybe you can rank them ... like top 5 or something ie Scotty vs jordi vs torres vs Tripp vs o brian ??
( id go torres , Tripp , Laforge, scotty , then ds9 obrian)
just a thought for a not trek actually but different than reading comments :)
Happy New Year
Grossed out by the concept of daddy Odo but laughing more than I should at the gag gag... everyone has their thing
Wait? What? You're grossed out over a dude looking handsome?
I believe that you got your point across clearly in the DC Fontana video is very nicely done.unfortunately not All Star Trek fans are open-minded
23:28 it's helpful when confronting these people to remember that their mentality is the same that only grudgingly agreed to emancipation in the middle of the 19th century, then immediately got busy creating the KKK and jim crow law and then spreading the cultural myth in every direction it could possibly go, that the recently emancipated people were in fact lazy and lacked social virtue on a fundamental level. Same crowd.
Maybe you know this already, but I always love how pitch perfect your response is to these people. Thank you for going for their juggular.