Bingo, I can't remember where I read that but it was definitely talked about in the production that oh he just means Conan Doyle. Also that's not as world breaking as needing paper books to read Klingon when they use universal translators constantly on alien planets even when they're undercover.
I was about to comment about the same thing. Spock's line still works if his ancestor was Arthur Conan Doyle and he was arbitrating it to the author that created Holmes and not the fictitious inspector that the line was written for.
@@theoldone22 This makes perfect sense to me. Amanda can be descended from virtually anyone, since she lives over 200 years in the future from our perspective.
I eventually settled on Spock's mom Amanda telling child Spock Sherlock Holmes bedtime stories and that he once remarked "Sherlock is very logical, was he a Vulcan as well?" and Amanda going "No, he was a human ancestor of yours". And whenever Spock brought up that quote about the ancestor nobody corrected him on that. But that does mean that he never said that near Checkov, otherwise he would have said something alone the lines of "Oh, I didn't know you were a descendant of the Russian master detective Scherlock Holmskovich". :D
Maybe Spock, on his mother's side is related to Sir Arthur Conan Doyle the writer of Sherlock, and the actual person who wrote the removing the impossible statement.
It was such a bit for him. I got the impression he'd tell anyone they were stupid for anything unless they were agreeing with him right at that moment, and probably not even then.
I met Harlan Ellison at a convention in the late 90s, and told him about how I had discovered his work when my grandfather wound up in the hospital from a heart attack. I also mentioned how, when I'm feeling the pain of loss from the death of someone dear to me particularly painful, I read Paladin of the Lost Hour, and it makes it hurt less, and that I wanted to thank him for that. He stared at me for a long moment, then said "I almost wish you had insulted me, because I would know how to react to that."
My head canon for the "devolution" of the Klingons is a decades-long swing towards cultural and religious fundamentalism after Praxis. Disasters often inspire such swings.
The guardian planet being protected from paradoxes makes perfect sense. You don't want your time machine or time portal or time-anything to be vulnerable to alterations to the timeline.
Steve, I happen to be in your camp for not understanding why 'Let's Play' videos are so popular on Twitch and UA-cam. However it was explained to me, by my kids no less, 'Well, you watch football every Sunday, right? Cheer when your team hits a home run, or scores a goal in overtime, right? You are watching other people... play games. There is a whole multi-billion dollar industry built around the idea of watching other people play games. Why are video games any different?'
Isn't it fun when your kids pierce you with fundamental logic? I used to use a similar analogy comparing conventions and festivals to explain why I went to scifi conventions.
As for the “Sherlock Holmes incongruity” how about embracing the quote he used to look at the situation. Wouldn’t it be true that if Holmes “said” it then the author Sir Arthur Conan Doyle “said” those words as well? To me that always implied that he was related to Doyle, a real person, not Holmes, a fictional character.
The main problem with Klingons is that they tend to swing wildly between two extreme examples of Klingons in any Star Trek entry. 1. Developed characters with more than 6 lines who could just as easily be any race that has had a rocky relationship with the Federation. 2. NPCs running around screaming "My Honor!" at the top of their lungs like the Ember Island Players version of Zuko.
Wow, I never noticed it was the same guy who vaporized himself! Thanks, Steve. And now that I'm thinking about that phaser.... just when did McCoy pick up that phaser? I guess in his pharmaceutical madness he still had enough logic to stop by the armory before beaming down to the planet.
Oh, forget tricking the Romulans into joining the war, remember when Sisko nuked that planet that one time, that was TOTALLY her idea! She totally pushed for that!
@@DayneGodwin I suppose nobody can be any one thing for several lifetimes: Straight or gay or pansexual, man or woman or enby, good or bad or indifferent... You have too much time to change and develop.
The "de-evolving" of klingons is actually brought up by Kolos in the ENT episode Judgement where he complains that all Klingons want to become warriors nowadays instead of going into science etc.
I think that Meyer was also noting that Spock is the descendant of Holmes in the sense that the character of Spock is clearly influenced by Sherlock Holmes.
And building off Steve's later reference to Holmes as both "real and literary"... I have not seen/read "Seven Percent Solution" in a while, but wasn't that Meyer's own take on the character?
Okay, Samuel Clemens in Time's Arrow, calm down. Also, for an incredible lookalike from grandfather to son to grandson, one need only look at images of Princes Philip, Charles and Harry when they were in their respective branches of the military. It's more than close, it's eerie.
Maybe Spock just has a wry wit when he makes a joke, showing his evolution as a person over time. Probably due to dealing with Dr. McCoy when his katra was in his head.
I can confirm from family knowledge that Harlan enjoyed being a slightly deranged jackass. From the stories my mom told about him, it sounded like he decided that diva behavior would make him distinctive and respected, and since people would approach him with manuscripts with the expectation he would call them hacks and tear it up in their faces, it was a good marketing strategy. The first thing he ever said to me was a claim that he might be my father. If I hadn't been 11 at the time, I might have come back with the correct response (which I'm sure he was hoping for): Harlan, even your sperm don't swim that slow. He knew what he was doing; it's why he went on Scooby-Doo to play himself having a personal vendetta against a Lovecraft stand-in.
What really bugs me is when a writer/team claims to honor continuity across a franchise, but then just ignores it. Just be honest about it and I will not care.
Also, the 'let's play' thing... I did enjoy other people playing Alien: Isolation, because: 1. I'm way to much of a wuss to play it myself, and and I'm pretty sure I'd have noped clean out of the game within like an hour of the Xenomorph's first appearance, and so never got the rest of the story, and 2. it is absolutely the best addition to the franchise since 1986.
Hey, thanks for answering my question! I have to say though, it was a bit jarring to suddenly hear my name coming out of the speakers while I was AFK doing other things hahaha. I had completely forgotten about it to be honest. But right after this video ended I went to your link and listened to the podcast. Guess I'll have to watch 300 again to see if it holds up to my memory, and weigh it against what you said. I actually haven't seen it in years.
I met Harlan Ellison at a sci fi con 20 years ago. Everything you’ve heard about him is true! The man had so much passion and energy, I’ve never seen anyone like him before or since. After I had the pleasure of being put in my place by him he say him walking to another part of the convention center. Harlan Ellison walls at a pace slightly slower than a sprint. He walked like a man who had some place be!!
No cliffhanger could ever beat the TV show Dallas' season ending in March of 1980, leaving us to ponder who shot J.R. for 8 whole months until November of that year. It created a cultural phenomenon that is still remembered today. Everyone wanted in on the fad, even those like me who were never fans of the show. It was just a whole lot of fun.
Why does Sherlock Holmes have to exist? Couldn't a Vulcan ancestor have stolen the line and claimed it was theirs? Could Spock be descended from Arthur Conan Doyle and, therefore, Sherlock's words be also attributed to ACD?
I remember the Nixon goes to China gag when I first saw the move. The entire audience in the theatre erupted into laughter. It has always stayed with me. Didn't know it was Nichloas Meyer that popped it in there 🤗 I think your Grandfather looks more like you that you do in fact 🤣
On the subject of Lets Plays, I actually explained it to a friend of mine a while back. For me, it's mostly about two things. First, seeing a game that I either wouldn't or can't play, especially ones that have multiple ways to play them or good stories. And second, to pick up ideas for my own play of those games. Well, there's also a third reason of enjoying the player's personality and the kind of communities you can find on twitch.
I always read the 'ancestor' comment to be: 1) Like the 'golden rule' there's a quite simple logic underpinning "Once you eliminate the impossible..." meaning it's not implausible that other people / societies would come up with something sounding very similar 2) We can imagine that a society like the Vulcan's would likely have some phrase or axiom like it 3) Spock is shown to know a lot about earth's history and culture. 4) I might have embellished this in my memory but I seem to remember Kirk or someone giving him the side-eye when he made this comment as if it was as odd to them as it was to us. Ergo Spock was making a half joke, knowing how it would sound (that he was connected to Holmes / Doyle) but also wasn't lying about it being a Vulcan cultural axiom (might have been a favorite saying of a great grandfather or something)
General Chang has always been one of my favorite characters, even more so since I grew up and took a few English lit courses. Recently it’s gotten me thinking an Animatrix style show about Klingons could be something truly special. Stand-alone stories about legendary feats of valor in battles of mythic proportions, each with it’s own unique animation style, punctuated by Zak Snyder levels of hyper-violence, with Shakespearean themes… in the original Klingon of course.
With the Klingon regression comment. I would have loved to see a Klingon character who pays lip service to Klingon rituals and values, but doesn't actually believe them. Happily salutes and 'Kaplagh's, but then turns away and rolls their eyes. Like a non-believer trying to live in a world of religious zealots.
They really wanted to do that waking up with her watching over him scene in all three films. The question is why not make it his maternal great grandparents instead?
You know, the idea that Klingons De-evolving is an interesting one, an idea that could even stretch to explain the drastic differences in the Discovery Klingons. Although thats all just headcanon at best. Interesting thought tho
Ive always seen it as like a medically forced physical de-evolutoin that has minor mental side effects. Klingons go from being like cocky, aggressive humans to being vicious and bloodthirsty as fuck. At least from my perspective anyway.
Or you could look at it a different way. In Battlestar Galactica, they're captured by the Cylons, and Saul Tigh loses an eye. Later he asks, "What did I lose my eye for?" It's far easier to see a Klingon who lost an eye for the glory of the empire to become embittered. He gave it for a way of life, and ideology...
I don't think they were "de-evolving" (which isn't really a thing), but it _is_ canon that Klingon society had been in a steady decline for some time. Their culture was based on honour, but it was not a trait that was highly prized anymore, instead prioritising personal glory over honour. I do think it could be argued that Klingons have been self-selecting for aggression and selfishness to the exclusion of intelligence, but there wasn't enough time between TOS and TNG for that to have been noticeable, particularly given that the life expectancy of a Klingon is two or three centuries.
@@StarkRG I strongly agree with this. As you say, "de-evolving" is both not a thing and also the reverse of a process that acts over long timeframes. Additionally, it's easy to understand how their growth in militaristic thinking and glory-hunger became so dominant. Within a few centuries, an alliance forged by humans, a young and (for most of the Empire's history) "primitive" species, had upstaged their power and influence in the quadrant. Losing dominance on every count, they retreated into the way of thought that once forged their empire, while individuals sought personal glory to reassure themselves that they at least were true heirs to their ancestors' might.
Btw. The series finale of Wandavision. When Vision defeats Vision with logic, tally reminded me of your video on kirk defeating robots with logic. Pretty sure I lol'd.
About Tilly: sometimes anxiety disorders present when an individual doesn't have enough stress, and goes away when that stress is increased (to a certain limit). Maybe that's what they're trying to show with her promotion...
I've heard that Tourette's Syndrome sufferers lose their tics when concentrating on something important. The tics return when the task is done and they can relax again. Maybe it's not the same as anxiety, but what you describe reminds me of that.
Spock's really smart, and because he has a human mother, he knows quite a bit about our culture. To me, his "Sherlock" quote acknowledged that he knew someone had written the stories. Perhaps Amanda Grayson was related to Arthur Conan Doyle? ;)
Loved the Sam clemens from times arrow reference. Also I recently watched a trek culture video that saluted Chang, and those screws on his eyepatch all had the klingon emblem etched into them. Very cool.
Hi Steve... When you talked about that strap for a Klingons eye-patch and bullying, I really thought you were setting up a joke of Martok starring you down.. I enjoy your humor 🙂
Sherlock Holmes could have been a British equivalent of Wyatt Earp in the Trek Universe, having sold the rights to his life story. Or he could have existed up until Reichenbach Falls when he is killed by Moriarty and all the following stories after his return are fictional in the Trek Universe.
I remember Jack Klugman as Oscar Madison playing his own father on an episode of The Odd Couple. He played the father without his toupee which strengthened the illusion, because Jack Klugman had worn a toupee throughout his entire on screen career. Incidentally, Jack Klugman’s own son played a 10-year-old Oscar in the same episode.
I think when McCoy goes through the gate and Kirk and the crew on the planet aren't effected. That it is in the name, "The Guardian". That, that area has to be protected from changes, kind of like Voyagers shields protecting the ship in "Year of Hell". What is strange is you have a "Guardian" who is suppose to guard the portal but has no means or weapons to protect it. All he can do is say "Hay you not suppose to go in there it's dangerous" and when you get back say "I told you so, now go fix your own mess". All he has is just enough protection to protect him from being effected. Literally anyone can walk through. Even ST:TNG episode "Contagion" the portal had more security and protect than the Guardian. Also I like to think this is how Department of Temporal Investigations was created, Star Fleet said "Yeah this could be really dangerous to us if it got in to the wrong hands." Thus starting the Temporal Cold War.
Hey Steve. I’ve been slowly working my way through the Star Trek series and you have been a great source of education and entertainment along the way. I started with TNG which I liked from childhood and have watched most of TOS, all TNG, DS9 and *shudders* Voyager. About to begin Enterprise after I watch the TOS and TNG films. I originally found you through your 5 Stupid Things series (when your beard was less magnificent) and your atheist content (which helped me a lot as I was discovering my own atheist ideology). But your Star Trek content is easily my favorite of your content because of how accessible you make these broader Star Trek topics. Not much else, just wanted to show my appreciation for what you do. PS: If it’s possible, could you add timestamps for these comment response videos? I want to try and minimize spoilers until I get to Discovery (which I realize is a fool’s errand).
@21:00 Alternatively there is father/son actor combination, W. Morgan & Mark Sheppard, that plays each other older/younger versions of themselves.W. Morgan. I remember them in the Doctor who episode The Impossible Astronaut and a vague recollection of NCIS season 6 'Broken Bird'
As Appalachian kin who has worked internationally, you have my sympathies. Still pronounce orange “orng,” say y’all, and chew on my Rs something fierce.
Being protected from time changes may be an act of self-preservation by shielding the Guardian from a paradox. If Kirk and Spock suddenly never existed, then who went through the Guardian? I mean, you can still argue that it's still a paradox, but maybe the Universe would be ok with a softer paradox. ("Repeat to yourself it's just a show, I should really just relax.")
If nudged closely enough to course, events have a way of restructuring themselves. and yes proximity to occurrence is an acceptable measure of protection from a timeline change. Sci-Fi genre is not a "you can do anything" type of system. Its more of a "you can do anything IF you are willing to explain it very thoroughly" type of system.
I always took the Sherlock Holmes quote, and Spock attributing it to his ancestor, to mean that Spock is descended from Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. Besides the fact that Doyle actually existed, it would be easy enough to attribute a fictional character's words to that character's author.
I think the events of Star Trek: Discovery season 3 might warrant a slight reappraisal of the events of "City on the Edge of Forever." My original thought was that the episode was just a bunch of coincidences/accidents/"series of unfortunate events" and that the Guardian of Forever wasn't actively trying to make life difficult for Kirk, Spock, and company. And perhaps that was the original intent. Certainly though with "Karl" telling us that he is testing Georgiou by sending her back to the Mirror Universe, though, it sort of makes me think the Guardian has a hidden agenda in "testing humanity" in this episode, sort of like Q.
"To Be Continued..." For me, May of '90 foreshadowed a bummer of a summer. My parents, who weren't even really fans of the show, practically howled upon seeing those three words.
On Chang's bolted on eyepatch, it also removes the temptation that the strap across the back of the neck's snap based bullying opportunities... And with the trope of actors playing their ancestors, in the _Doctor Who_ story The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon story has Mark Sheppard's father, William Morgan Sheppard play an older version of the same character.
I don't like discussing topics with people that are typically polarizing like religion or politics, mainly because most people don't know how to have a discussion or debate or better yet a dialogue! You sir are one I believe would make for an enjoyable interaction. While you and I may not have the same beliefs or viewpoints you are considerate of others viewpoints and willingness to change yours if new information contradicts what you currently believe to be true and can be corroborated. I could easily see sitting back and drinking a few beers talking trek, politics, or really any topic. This is a skill that few possess. So few lack the compassion or empathy, or even the sympathy needed to do so. I can't think of any higher praise than saying that you believe having an argument or debate with a person would be fun and enjoyable knowing you can go into it with no one coming out feeling hurt like every comment is a personal attack against the other. I wish I could meet more people like this, they are too few and far between.
The Comment responses graphic really does make me happy.
And the actual comment response has really made my day, thank you.
Thank you, Kyle! It also made my day too. SO, yeah... Thanks a lot... Kyle!!! 😅
THANKS KYLE! I'M GLAD YOU 'effing' APPRECIATE IT!
Little smile on your face.
I came to the comments to check on Kyle.
Spock's "Sherlock" ancestor I have always taken to be Arthur Conan Doyle.
Im goad everyone else pointed this out before i had to
I always thought that as well... but maybe I got it from a novel or something
Bingo, I can't remember where I read that but it was definitely talked about in the production that oh he just means Conan Doyle.
Also that's not as world breaking as needing paper books to read Klingon when they use universal translators constantly on alien planets even when they're undercover.
This IS what the joke is, as even stated by Nicholas Meyer.
That was my thought as well
My head-canon fix was that Arthur Conan Doyle was Spock’s ancestor even if the intent of Meyer’s joke was that Holmes was the ancestor.
Beat me to it.
I was about to comment about the same thing. Spock's line still works if his ancestor was Arthur Conan Doyle and he was arbitrating it to the author that created Holmes and not the fictitious inspector that the line was written for.
Beat me to it, and I put in my comment anyway.
@@theoldone22 This makes perfect sense to me. Amanda can be descended from virtually anyone, since she lives over 200 years in the future from our perspective.
I always assumed that Spock's "ancestor" in that instance was Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.
I've reached this conclusion as well: that Spock's mom Amanda is descended from the author who created Sherlock Holmes and who wrote those words.
I eventually settled on Spock's mom Amanda telling child Spock Sherlock Holmes bedtime stories and that he once remarked "Sherlock is very logical, was he a Vulcan as well?" and Amanda going "No, he was a human ancestor of yours". And whenever Spock brought up that quote about the ancestor nobody corrected him on that.
But that does mean that he never said that near Checkov, otherwise he would have said something alone the lines of "Oh, I didn't know you were a descendant of the Russian master detective Scherlock Holmskovich". :D
I agree. I always felt that Doyle made as much since in universe and out.
Came here to say exactly this.
I reached that conclusion to, it makes more sense
Maybe Spock, on his mother's side is related to Sir Arthur Conan Doyle the writer of Sherlock, and the actual person who wrote the removing the impossible statement.
I was going to comment exactly this.
Dang it, I came here to say this.
precisely. ... or it could've been just a Sherlock Holmes Fan, that adopted the statement...
Orrrr.. and hear me out... Spock’s ancestor is Sir Arthur Conan Doyle..... or Benedict Cumberbatch.....
Eggs Benedict Cumberbund
This, well the first part. I took it as a joke the first time I saw it, but assumed he meant Conan Doyle upon reflection.
@@trekjudas von Avalon Stratford Alowishus Vanberbelt the III
Gotta say his full name to summon him.
Loving Star Trek could mean one loves literature as well. What with all of that original Klingon Shakespeare out there! :D
I met Harlan Eddison once. He gave me shit for thinking genetic engineering was cool. IT WAS AWESOME!!
Met him to at tower books 📚 Seattle 89 he very funny, talked about his comics for Africa. Said he met a fan who dressed as wildman
He told me that I’d die in ten years due to being fat. Guess what, it’s 18 years later. I’m still fat, and he’s dead. Victory (?)
It was such a bit for him. I got the impression he'd tell anyone they were stupid for anything unless they were agreeing with him right at that moment, and probably not even then.
I'm going to assume you misspelled Ellison.
I met Harlan Ellison at a convention in the late 90s, and told him about how I had discovered his work when my grandfather wound up in the hospital from a heart attack. I also mentioned how, when I'm feeling the pain of loss from the death of someone dear to me particularly painful, I read Paladin of the Lost Hour, and it makes it hurt less, and that I wanted to thank him for that.
He stared at me for a long moment, then said "I almost wish you had insulted me, because I would know how to react to that."
Well it is an unseen character called Ernest Borg-nine.
Isn't that Seven of Nine's never before disclosed first name?
...sorry about that.
🤣🤣
"I could be a Q -- all I'd have to do is wreak havoc and not give a shit!" So you'd be a... QAnon?
He said not give a shit, as I heard it the Q folks left shit all over the capital building... The walls, the floors, ect. Lol
Ouch
My head canon for the "devolution" of the Klingons is a decades-long swing towards cultural and religious fundamentalism after Praxis. Disasters often inspire such swings.
The guardian planet being protected from paradoxes makes perfect sense. You don't want your time machine or time portal or time-anything to be vulnerable to alterations to the timeline.
Chang vs. Martok? Let's Go.
Chang for the win.
Steve, I happen to be in your camp for not understanding why 'Let's Play' videos are so popular on Twitch and UA-cam. However it was explained to me, by my kids no less, 'Well, you watch football every Sunday, right? Cheer when your team hits a home run, or scores a goal in overtime, right? You are watching other people... play games. There is a whole multi-billion dollar industry built around the idea of watching other people play games. Why are video games any different?'
Isn't it fun when your kids pierce you with fundamental logic? I used to use a similar analogy comparing conventions and festivals to explain why I went to scifi conventions.
Given Riker's personality and Q's sense of humour, I am seeing Q volunteering for the first officer role while wearing the season 1 Deanna Troi dress
As for the “Sherlock Holmes incongruity” how about embracing the quote he used to look at the situation. Wouldn’t it be true that if Holmes “said” it then the author Sir Arthur Conan Doyle “said” those words as well? To me that always implied that he was related to Doyle, a real person, not Holmes, a fictional character.
The main problem with Klingons is that they tend to swing wildly between two extreme examples of Klingons in any Star Trek entry.
1. Developed characters with more than 6 lines who could just as easily be any race that has had a rocky relationship with the Federation.
2. NPCs running around screaming "My Honor!" at the top of their lungs like the Ember Island Players version of Zuko.
Wow, I never noticed it was the same guy who vaporized himself! Thanks, Steve.
And now that I'm thinking about that phaser.... just when did McCoy pick up that phaser? I guess in his pharmaceutical madness he still had enough logic to stop by the armory before beaming down to the planet.
Oh, forget tricking the Romulans into joining the war, remember when Sisko nuked that planet that one time, that was TOTALLY her idea! She totally pushed for that!
After however many lifetimes, being good must just be boring.
@@DayneGodwin I suppose nobody can be any one thing for several lifetimes: Straight or gay or pansexual, man or woman or enby, good or bad or indifferent... You have too much time to change and develop.
The "de-evolving" of klingons is actually brought up by Kolos in the ENT episode Judgement where he complains that all Klingons want to become warriors nowadays instead of going into science etc.
I think that Meyer was also noting that Spock is the descendant of Holmes in the sense that the character of Spock is clearly influenced by Sherlock Holmes.
Yours is the better answer, but I am willing to accept that Amanda Grayson is descended from Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.
And building off Steve's later reference to Holmes as both "real and literary"... I have not seen/read "Seven Percent Solution" in a while, but wasn't that Meyer's own take on the character?
Or perhaps Spock's mother was a descendant of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.
After all, one who loves Star Trek might also love literature, right?
Okay, Samuel Clemens in Time's Arrow, calm down.
Also, for an incredible lookalike from grandfather to son to grandson, one need only look at images of Princes Philip, Charles and Harry when they were in their respective branches of the military. It's more than close, it's eerie.
Maybe Spock just has a wry wit when he makes a joke, showing his evolution as a person over time. Probably due to dealing with Dr. McCoy when his katra was in his head.
I think there's a much more obvious solution to the Spock "My ancestor" line, the ancestor could have just been Arthur Conan Doyle
I can confirm from family knowledge that Harlan enjoyed being a slightly deranged jackass. From the stories my mom told about him, it sounded like he decided that diva behavior would make him distinctive and respected, and since people would approach him with manuscripts with the expectation he would call them hacks and tear it up in their faces, it was a good marketing strategy. The first thing he ever said to me was a claim that he might be my father. If I hadn't been 11 at the time, I might have come back with the correct response (which I'm sure he was hoping for): Harlan, even your sperm don't swim that slow.
He knew what he was doing; it's why he went on Scooby-Doo to play himself having a personal vendetta against a Lovecraft stand-in.
I'd wonder if being a writer is akin in some ways to being a fiddler on the roof.
Wait. So your mom dated Ellison?
@@TechnoLawyer Yep. One of many, from what I hear. There's a picture of her holding his Hugo for him while he talks to someone.
I do declare "front row" in my best Jonathan Frakes voice when there's a parking store near the store.
"7% solution" makes an appearance in the BBC _Sherlock_ series, *The Abominable Bride*...I had no idea that was a Nick Meyer attribution!
Oh shit, first quote of the video! Woo! Thanks Steve!
That bit with Jonathan Frakes in Futurama is also one of my favourite gags.
Maybe Spock meant that Arthur Conan Doyle was his ancestor
Whos the cutest of borg?
Star Trek Fleet Command has an Assimilated Tribble Character.
That is the cutest of borg.
What really bugs me is when a writer/team claims to honor continuity across a franchise, but then just ignores it. Just be honest about it and I will not care.
Also, the 'let's play' thing... I did enjoy other people playing Alien: Isolation, because:
1. I'm way to much of a wuss to play it myself, and and I'm pretty sure I'd have noped clean out of the game within like an hour of the Xenomorph's first appearance, and so never got the rest of the story, and
2. it is absolutely the best addition to the franchise since 1986.
Funny how Chang went with an eyepatch, whereas the far more honourable Martok showed off his missing eye proudly.
Hey, thanks for answering my question! I have to say though, it was a bit jarring to suddenly hear my name coming out of the speakers while I was AFK doing other things hahaha. I had completely forgotten about it to be honest. But right after this video ended I went to your link and listened to the podcast. Guess I'll have to watch 300 again to see if it holds up to my memory, and weigh it against what you said. I actually haven't seen it in years.
Could Sherlock Holmes not be a fictionalized character based on a real life man in Star Trek all la Billy the kid.
This is what I get for commenting on a video as I watch it.
Or James Bond?
Sarek, Surak, Sybok, Sherlock... Who said it was a relative on his mother's side???
Spock mentions an ancestor, it could have been 'some author'.
Maybe Amanda is a descendant of Arthur Conan Doyle.
I met Harlan Ellison at a sci fi con 20 years ago. Everything you’ve heard about him is true! The man had so much passion and energy, I’ve never seen anyone like him before or since. After I had the pleasure of being put in my place by him he say him walking to another part of the convention center. Harlan Ellison walls at a pace slightly slower than a sprint. He walked like a man who had some place be!!
_Oh damn!_ I had to pause the video; I was laughing so hard when you brought up that scene of Johnathan Frakes in Futurama! That is so Frakes.
Spock referencing Sherlock Holmes in ST 6...Get over it people! Spock was telling a joke. Deal with it.
I am so with you on "Let's Play" videos! I'll go play myself rather than watch someone else play, thank you very much
No cliffhanger could ever beat the TV show Dallas' season ending in March of 1980, leaving us to ponder who shot J.R. for 8 whole months until November of that year. It created a cultural phenomenon that is still remembered today. Everyone wanted in on the fad, even those like me who were never fans of the show. It was just a whole lot of fun.
Why does Sherlock Holmes have to exist? Couldn't a Vulcan ancestor have stolen the line and claimed it was theirs? Could Spock be descended from Arthur Conan Doyle and, therefore, Sherlock's words be also attributed to ACD?
Who's more metal, Chang for bolting his eye patch on or Martok for not even wearing one?
Chang looks more metal but my man Martok acts more metal for sure. Quoting shakespeare is not very metal lol
Wouldn't a Klingon who'd lost an eye just sport that eye hole?
I remember the Nixon goes to China gag when I first saw the move. The entire audience in the theatre erupted into laughter. It has always stayed with me. Didn't know it was Nichloas Meyer that popped it in there 🤗 I think your Grandfather looks more like you that you do in fact 🤣
Pretty sure the implication was that Spock was related to Arthur Conan Doyle.
On the subject of Lets Plays, I actually explained it to a friend of mine a while back. For me, it's mostly about two things. First, seeing a game that I either wouldn't or can't play, especially ones that have multiple ways to play them or good stories. And second, to pick up ideas for my own play of those games. Well, there's also a third reason of enjoying the player's personality and the kind of communities you can find on twitch.
Seven of nine is the cutest borg
I always read the 'ancestor' comment to be: 1) Like the 'golden rule' there's a quite simple logic underpinning "Once you eliminate the impossible..." meaning it's not implausible that other people / societies would come up with something sounding very similar 2) We can imagine that a society like the Vulcan's would likely have some phrase or axiom like it 3) Spock is shown to know a lot about earth's history and culture. 4) I might have embellished this in my memory but I seem to remember Kirk or someone giving him the side-eye when he made this comment as if it was as odd to them as it was to us.
Ergo Spock was making a half joke, knowing how it would sound (that he was connected to Holmes / Doyle) but also wasn't lying about it being a Vulcan cultural axiom (might have been a favorite saying of a great grandfather or something)
You know what else would have happened if Picard wasn't rescued?
We wouldn't have gotten that one scene with Gul Madred.
You know the one. ;)
General Chang has always been one of my favorite characters, even more so since I grew up and took a few English lit courses.
Recently it’s gotten me thinking an Animatrix style show about Klingons could be something truly special. Stand-alone stories about legendary feats of valor in battles of mythic proportions, each with it’s own unique animation style, punctuated by Zak Snyder levels of hyper-violence, with Shakespearean themes… in the original Klingon of course.
With the Klingon regression comment. I would have loved to see a Klingon character who pays lip service to Klingon rituals and values, but doesn't actually believe them. Happily salutes and 'Kaplagh's, but then turns away and rolls their eyes. Like a non-believer trying to live in a world of religious zealots.
We all know that Hugh and Seven were the cutest of Borg!
I love how Back to the Future had the same actor play Marty's mother and paternal (great?) grandmother because they obviously would look a lot alike.
“The McFly men are genetically attracted to women who look like Lea Thompson.” -Bob Gale, Co-Writer of Back to the Future.
They really wanted to do that waking up with her watching over him scene in all three films. The question is why not make it his maternal great grandparents instead?
Martok - no eye patch just a nasty scar so you know he's serious.
You know, the idea that Klingons De-evolving is an interesting one, an idea that could even stretch to explain the drastic differences in the Discovery Klingons. Although thats all just headcanon at best. Interesting thought tho
Ive always seen it as like a medically forced physical de-evolutoin that has minor mental side effects. Klingons go from being like cocky, aggressive humans to being vicious and bloodthirsty as fuck. At least from my perspective anyway.
Or you could look at it a different way.
In Battlestar Galactica, they're captured by the Cylons, and Saul Tigh loses an eye.
Later he asks, "What did I lose my eye for?"
It's far easier to see a Klingon who lost an eye for the glory of the empire to become embittered.
He gave it for a way of life, and ideology...
I don't think they were "de-evolving" (which isn't really a thing), but it _is_ canon that Klingon society had been in a steady decline for some time. Their culture was based on honour, but it was not a trait that was highly prized anymore, instead prioritising personal glory over honour. I do think it could be argued that Klingons have been self-selecting for aggression and selfishness to the exclusion of intelligence, but there wasn't enough time between TOS and TNG for that to have been noticeable, particularly given that the life expectancy of a Klingon is two or three centuries.
@@StarkRG I strongly agree with this. As you say, "de-evolving" is both not a thing and also the reverse of a process that acts over long timeframes. Additionally, it's easy to understand how their growth in militaristic thinking and glory-hunger became so dominant. Within a few centuries, an alliance forged by humans, a young and (for most of the Empire's history) "primitive" species, had upstaged their power and influence in the quadrant. Losing dominance on every count, they retreated into the way of thought that once forged their empire, while individuals sought personal glory to reassure themselves that they at least were true heirs to their ancestors' might.
Btw. The series finale of Wandavision. When Vision defeats Vision with logic, tally reminded me of your video on kirk defeating robots with logic. Pretty sure I lol'd.
I swear 75% of the comments are comments on the Spock thing
Colonel Worf and TNG/DS9 Worf have different cranial ridges, so Worf and his grandfather have a strong family resemblance, without being "twins".
About Tilly: sometimes anxiety disorders present when an individual doesn't have enough stress, and goes away when that stress is increased (to a certain limit). Maybe that's what they're trying to show with her promotion...
I've heard that Tourette's Syndrome sufferers lose their tics when concentrating on something important. The tics return when the task is done and they can relax again. Maybe it's not the same as anxiety, but what you describe reminds me of that.
I like these comment videos, it is like hanging out with a friend while I work, a friend who gets angry and screams about silly things.
Spock might have been inferring that he is a descendant of Arthur Conan Doyle.
Spock's really smart, and because he has a human mother, he knows quite a bit about our culture. To me, his "Sherlock" quote acknowledged that he knew someone had written the stories. Perhaps Amanda Grayson was related to Arthur Conan Doyle? ;)
The tone Steve uses when talking about conservatives is duly aggressive, not unduly so.
Goddamn right. Conservatives are the fucking worst.
I just figured Spock's ancestor was a fan of Sherlock Holmes and liked to quote from the character.
The hypothetical post-Picard Q episode where he wants to be the First Officer could be called, "That's my Q!"
Loved the Sam clemens from times arrow reference. Also I recently watched a trek culture video that saluted Chang, and those screws on his eyepatch all had the klingon emblem etched into them. Very cool.
A third alternative to Sherlock being real is that Doyle is the ancestor that he speaks of.
I would think one of spocks ancestors was just a sherlock holmes fan (he is after all logical) And quoted him often
Hi Steve... When you talked about that strap for a Klingons eye-patch and bullying, I really thought you were setting up a joke of Martok starring you down.. I enjoy your humor 🙂
How do you feel about the change Vulcan to Ni'Var. I wasn’t happy that they changed Vulcan name. What do you think.
Your pap was James Dean? Amazing.
Great vid as usual
Sherlock Holmes could have been a British equivalent of Wyatt Earp in the Trek Universe, having sold the rights to his life story. Or he could have existed up until Reichenbach Falls when he is killed by Moriarty and all the following stories after his return are fictional in the Trek Universe.
I remember Jack Klugman as Oscar Madison playing his own father on an episode of The Odd Couple. He played the father without his toupee which strengthened the illusion, because Jack Klugman had worn a toupee throughout his entire on screen career.
Incidentally, Jack Klugman’s own son played a 10-year-old Oscar in the same episode.
I think when McCoy goes through the gate and Kirk and the crew on the planet aren't effected. That it is in the name, "The Guardian". That, that area has to be protected from changes, kind of like Voyagers shields protecting the ship in "Year of Hell". What is strange is you have a "Guardian" who is suppose to guard the portal but has no means or weapons to protect it. All he can do is say "Hay you not suppose to go in there it's dangerous" and when you get back say "I told you so, now go fix your own mess". All he has is just enough protection to protect him from being effected. Literally anyone can walk through. Even ST:TNG episode "Contagion" the portal had more security and protect than the Guardian. Also I like to think this is how Department of Temporal Investigations was created, Star Fleet said "Yeah this could be really dangerous to us if it got in to the wrong hands." Thus starting the Temporal Cold War.
Maybe Spock was referring to his ancestor Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and not Sherlock Holmes.
That Mark Twain riff was just perfectly timed! 😂
Well the author could have been Spock ancestor. And he wrote it.
I wouldn't say "cutest," but Jean Luc-Picard was definitely the hottest borg.
Hey Steve. I’ve been slowly working my way through the Star Trek series and you have been a great source of education and entertainment along the way. I started with TNG which I liked from childhood and have watched most of TOS, all TNG, DS9 and *shudders* Voyager. About to begin Enterprise after I watch the TOS and TNG films.
I originally found you through your 5 Stupid Things series (when your beard was less magnificent) and your atheist content (which helped me a lot as I was discovering my own atheist ideology). But your Star Trek content is easily my favorite of your content because of how accessible you make these broader Star Trek topics.
Not much else, just wanted to show my appreciation for what you do.
PS: If it’s possible, could you add timestamps for these comment response videos? I want to try and minimize spoilers until I get to Discovery (which I realize is a fool’s errand).
@21:00 Alternatively there is father/son actor combination, W. Morgan & Mark Sheppard, that plays each other older/younger versions of themselves.W. Morgan.
I remember them in the Doctor who episode The Impossible Astronaut and a vague recollection of NCIS season 6 'Broken Bird'
As Appalachian kin who has worked internationally, you have my sympathies. Still pronounce orange “orng,” say y’all, and chew on my Rs something fierce.
Love the extra graphic! ❤
Kyle made extra job for you; it was worth it!
Being protected from time changes may be an act of self-preservation by shielding the Guardian from a paradox. If Kirk and Spock suddenly never existed, then who went through the Guardian? I mean, you can still argue that it's still a paradox, but maybe the Universe would be ok with a softer paradox. ("Repeat to yourself it's just a show, I should really just relax.")
... and I love YOUR reference to "Time's Arrow, Part II." 🖖
I largely agree with you regarding continuity, but is having a galley on the Enterprise in Undiscovered Country a bridge too far?
If nudged closely enough to course, events have a way of restructuring themselves. and yes proximity to occurrence is an acceptable measure of protection from a timeline change. Sci-Fi genre is not a "you can do anything" type of system. Its more of a "you can do anything IF you are willing to explain it very thoroughly" type of system.
Couldn't you have animated the word "comment responses" so that they looked like they were being beamed in?
I always took the Sherlock Holmes quote, and Spock attributing it to his ancestor, to mean that Spock is descended from Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. Besides the fact that Doyle actually existed, it would be easy enough to attribute a fictional character's words to that character's author.
Steve's little rant at 26:30 really needed the graphic to change to the 'Rise of Skywalker' poster.
I think the events of Star Trek: Discovery season 3 might warrant a slight reappraisal of the events of "City on the Edge of Forever."
My original thought was that the episode was just a bunch of coincidences/accidents/"series of unfortunate events" and that the Guardian of Forever wasn't actively trying to make life difficult for Kirk, Spock, and company. And perhaps that was the original intent.
Certainly though with "Karl" telling us that he is testing Georgiou by sending her back to the Mirror Universe, though, it sort of makes me think the Guardian has a hidden agenda in "testing humanity" in this episode, sort of like Q.
I love how your humble and brave
Steve, love the star ships next to you monitor, where did you get them?
Thank you for trying to make me happy!
Will you talk about Lower Decks sometime?
"To Be Continued..." For me, May of '90 foreshadowed a bummer of a summer. My parents, who weren't even really fans of the show, practically howled upon seeing those three words.
On Chang's bolted on eyepatch, it also removes the temptation that the strap across the back of the neck's snap based bullying opportunities...
And with the trope of actors playing their ancestors, in the _Doctor Who_ story The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon story has Mark Sheppard's father, William Morgan Sheppard play an older version of the same character.
Let all joy The show of Star Trek. It was the best show of all time. I love Star Trek! New and Old and to the end of time.
I don't like discussing topics with people that are typically polarizing like religion or politics, mainly because most people don't know how to have a discussion or debate or better yet a dialogue! You sir are one I believe would make for an enjoyable interaction. While you and I may not have the same beliefs or viewpoints you are considerate of others viewpoints and willingness to change yours if new information contradicts what you currently believe to be true and can be corroborated. I could easily see sitting back and drinking a few beers talking trek, politics, or really any topic. This is a skill that few possess. So few lack the compassion or empathy, or even the sympathy needed to do so. I can't think of any higher praise than saying that you believe having an argument or debate with a person would be fun and enjoyable knowing you can go into it with no one coming out feeling hurt like every comment is a personal attack against the other. I wish I could meet more people like this, they are too few and far between.
It is not just a Sherlock quote. It is also called Occam;s Razor. We then have to assume that Occam's Razor is real in the Star Trek universe.
For The Sherlock reference, Spock could mean sir Arthur Connan Doyle would be his ancestors.
"watching people play videogames" AKA, the last third of every recent Marvel movie