We used the same fibres in our lime mix for strength, couldn`t use natural binders because of nature of our reforms ie a hole in the ground. We have found that our best compromise for strength and moisture pass through is NHL 3.5, we did use NHL5 on a rock wall in another part of the property but it is failing and shedding sand below ground level, the above ground part is perfect, no idea why.
Where you guys based? North east? I'm based in South Tyne side, if you are about for some good old proper building. I live in a 200 year old house, redhead the famous ship builder. This house has alot of history and deserves to be maintained properly
Great video. Wish I'd watched this before being involved in laying a limecrete slab at work. I think we have used too dry a mix and floor is a bit crumbly. What would be good for consolidating the top surface and achieving a tougher finish?
Thanks for the comment. Getting the water content can be tricky, to were and it's going to shrink to dry and its not going to set properly. If I was looking for a tougher surface I would probably make it a little wetter and run the vibrating poker.
I need to do this in my granite cottage; dig up the (thin) concrete floor, excavate then lay the glass and limecrete. I have a paddle mixer and plenty of quicklime kibble, so I'm tempted to use hotlime for the mix, possibly with pozzolans. I need to do more research though on compressive strength; my current information is that pure lime has a higher ultimate compressive strength than NHL due to the free lime content, but offset on the convenience side in terms of initial setting time. A thick floor isn't going to carbonate quickly. I'm wondering if a pozzolanic hotlime would be a reasonable compromise though. 🤔 I'm clearly still at the research stage! 🙂
Interesting to see this one, the NHL 5 will no doubt cause some comments in due course. Also good to hear the explanation about using foam for the edging strips too. The question is would you use the same approach if this building was a house (same location and construction etc)?
We wouldn’t assume a standard installation for every limecrete floor. The building needs to be assessed on its own specific criteria. Generally, we would assess ground conditions, water table, drainage, external layout, foundation depth, existing pointing/render type, masonry/brick type, internal expectations, floor type to be laid, heating arragement/under floor, floor finishes… there’s a lot of variables!
19:10 Thank you very interesting. I also have a question about the foam strips. Would they prevent water from evaporating from the bottom. I’m imaging they would prevent condensation but it’s still possibly blocking the line mortar at that point.
@@Helen5496 Hi Helen, the form strips would stop cross moisture movement between the slab and walls. However this wouldn't interfere with the general performance of the floor slab and or wall moisture movement. If we would have used the "normal" cork boards these also restrict to an extent, these boards / form are more to accommodate slab / building movement.
Enjoyed the video. Really helpful. I laid a small lime screed floor in a bathroom and wish I had found this beforehand. Just wondering as I have a few small cracks and indentations now the floor has dried. How can I fix them before putting a micro cement on?
You could mix up some fine sand to; 1 part lime (same as what you used for the floor) and 2 parts sand. This will fill any cracks and shallow depressions.
This is a great video and coincidently, this is the exact same job that i am about to carry out in my 1820's Victorian cottage, even the ground sandy-clay soil is the same. Due to budget constraints, it will entirely be done by myself and my wife. Even lifting of the previous 6" concrete floor with DPC membrane. All of the materials you have used is essentially the same of what we intend to use. I do have a quick question however - would you be able to provide a tooling list for the laying of the floor?
Hey, most important is a Laser Level. You can pick these up fairly cheap now or hire in. Putting in the Glapor you will need to hire a compaction plate, depending on depth compact every 8 " - 10". The rails are just 3" - 2"....make sure - check you have straight ones from the merchants, untreated is usually kept inside at the merchants so go for that it will be straighter. Urethane float, again from any tool or builders merchants, I like to have a big and small one. Small one for pushing material about, big one for floating up. We use a plasterers Darby for screeding between the rails. Good luck👍
I need to do this too, but need to convince my wife it's worth the upheaval! One concern I have is mixing and laying it myself - I presume the whole room would need to be done all at once? How gave you got on?
I'm renovating a 1850's brick terrace in Bolton, Geocell is now installed and at the stage of putting in the underfloor heating pipes then limecrete screed the floor. NHL 5 is ordered from Mike Wye but I only have a barrel mixer, do you hire out the auger mixer? It's a small area, less than 32 sq m at 150mm
Hey, apologies for not replying sooner. We have a towable pan mixer. if we are doing small areas we use the Baron mixers....maybe two of them. drop use an email if you need to hire anything.
Hi, Great video! I'm limecreting a floor on my house, it's 4.5m x 5m . If I can't do it all in one day, is there anything I should do to make the joins work okay? I'm concerned there might be problems with drying times although the total drying time doesn't bother me.
Hi, no issue with having a night joint on the floor. We normally step the joint, cutting a neat line makes it easier to joint the next day. There won't be an issue with the drying times. Best to leave a few weeks before covering, but you should be able to walk / work on it after 2-3 days.
thanks for a good vidio, any suggestions for using the lime as a tile laying mix too.... I did similar with natural stone slabs a few years ago, and though i had recorded how i did it, but now i cant find any details of the experimental lime mix we used to lay the slaps. its seems to have worked well, I've been using my outside kitchen for over a year now and the floor seems to be holding up fine, so id like to repeat the process, if only id written down my mix!
I feel your frustration. We are constantly using different mixes and project. Now we have recording sheet that sits in the job folder. You can purchase Lime tile adhesive. I think Cornish Lime do one. However, we have mixed our own using Silica sand mixed with 50% NHL 5 and 50% Calbux, we also add Casein. Ratios is 1 part Lime to 2 parts sand.
im restoring an old stone house.i wasnt aware of limecrete floors and i installed a concrete slab.since i m more into natural building shall i remove the concrete and make limecrete slab instead OR install limecrete slab on top of concrete?would appreciate ur opinion
Hi thanks for the comment. I would not recommend installing the limecrete over the concrete. If you have good external water levels and good drainage around the building it would just leave the concrete. It is more important to control the external factors. This needs to be done even when installing limecrete, like in the video. Rather than remove the concrete use the funds to externally repoint, improve drainage etc. Limecrete is preferred but not essential.
On this one, we just excavated the floor. The existing sub-ground was dense and hard. We have on other projects compacted a limestone down where the ground is softer. 6 could just install more Glypor. We use a none woven geotextile onto the sub-ground. This sheeting is then folded onto the top of the glypor. We generally glue this together.
There is no such thing as a stupid question. If you excavate a hole 400mm x 400mm x 800mm deep, on a dry evening, leave overnight. Next day, inspect and see if there is any water. No water = good ground drainage, low water table. 100mm from top = high water table!!! Many other factors can alter results. This is a very basic test.
Have you ever laid a limecrete floor using pure lime instead of an NHL? I suspect the downside of doing so would be potentially not having a floor surface that's robust enough to walk on, but would it be good enough to lay flags or tiles on with underfloor heating pipes embeded in it? The more that gets known about NHLs the more red flags emerge regarding it's permeability. Do you have a view? PS I hope you win the appeal on the derelict farm.. Will be very interesting to see what you do with it. Good luck with that. Rediculous the planners knocked it back.
You are correct using a NHL 5 will result in minimal breathability. NHL 3.5 can be used with success, slightly more breathability. Not done one without an Hydraulic set. I suspect that there would be issues with it setting at all. Most issues with high ground moisture level require better drainage around the property. Or have some sort of external problem. These need really addressing before putting the new floor down.
Natural fibres would be at change of decay if the moisture levels increased in the floor from ground. Also, if there was a high water / moisture content and the drying out period was extended.
As I understand these types of fibers they are made of materials that can't be recycled in other ways and would go to the land fill or incinerated. Seems to me better encapsulated in this form that may not come out for hundreds of years. Even when it does come out I would likely be broken down to large aggregate in another mix and reincapsulated. Better than being in the land fill beyond it's second ,third or more useful lifetime.
Wow, what a great and comprehensive video on limecrete floors. Great to see how the pros do it.
Thanks for the comment, much appreciated 👍
Brilliant video.
Your best video yet.
Thank you very much! 😁
Immensely helpful, thanks so much for taking the time to make this!
Thanks for comment Josh, glad you enjoyed it. 👍
Thanks a million for the video lads.
Glad you enjoyed it, hopefully it will help a little 👍
That was excellent, thanks.
Thank you for watching! :)
Great video, great work - keep up the craftsmanship!
Thanks for watching, glad you liked the video.
We used the same fibres in our lime mix for strength, couldn`t use natural binders because of nature of our reforms ie a hole in the ground. We have found that our best compromise for strength and moisture pass through is NHL 3.5, we did use NHL5 on a rock wall in another part of the property but it is failing and shedding sand below ground level, the above ground part is perfect, no idea why.
Where you guys based?
North east?
I'm based in South Tyne side, if you are about for some good old proper building. I live in a 200 year old house, redhead the famous ship builder. This house has alot of history and deserves to be maintained properly
Great video. Wish I'd watched this before being involved in laying a limecrete slab at work. I think we have used too dry a mix and floor is a bit crumbly. What would be good for consolidating the top surface and achieving a tougher finish?
Thanks for the comment. Getting the water content can be tricky, to were and it's going to shrink to dry and its not going to set properly. If I was looking for a tougher surface I would probably make it a little wetter and run the vibrating poker.
Great information, thankyou so much.
Thanks
Really helpful. Many thanks.
Glad you enjoyed it 😆
Glad you enjoyed it 👍
Thanks for the vlog.
I need to do this in my granite cottage; dig up the (thin) concrete floor, excavate then lay the glass and limecrete. I have a paddle mixer and plenty of quicklime kibble, so I'm tempted to use hotlime for the mix, possibly with pozzolans. I need to do more research though on compressive strength; my current information is that pure lime has a higher ultimate compressive strength than NHL due to the free lime content, but offset on the convenience side in terms of initial setting time. A thick floor isn't going to carbonate quickly. I'm wondering if a pozzolanic hotlime would be a reasonable compromise though. 🤔
I'm clearly still at the research stage! 🙂
Limecrete seems like an interesting mixture. Could a wall be cast from it?
Generally, walls are constructed with hemp added.
Interesting to see this one, the NHL 5 will no doubt cause some comments in due course. Also good to hear the explanation about using foam for the edging strips too. The question is would you use the same approach if this building was a house (same location and construction etc)?
We wouldn’t assume a standard installation for every limecrete floor. The building needs to be assessed on its own specific criteria. Generally, we would assess ground conditions, water table, drainage, external layout, foundation depth, existing pointing/render type, masonry/brick type, internal expectations, floor type to be laid, heating arragement/under floor, floor finishes… there’s a lot of variables!
@@UKRestorationServices That's a brilliant answer as it's certainly not a one size fits all product!
Keep spreading the knowledge!
19:10 Thank you very interesting. I also have a question about the foam strips. Would they prevent water from evaporating from the bottom. I’m imaging they would prevent condensation but it’s still possibly blocking the line mortar at that point.
@@Helen5496 Hi Helen, the form strips would stop cross moisture movement between the slab and walls. However this wouldn't interfere with the general performance of the floor slab and or wall moisture movement. If we would have used the "normal" cork boards these also restrict to an extent, these boards / form are more to accommodate slab / building movement.
Is that 6 mil plastic on the bottom?
I want to do this in my basement it has nothing but thin layer of gravel.
Enjoyed the video. Really helpful. I laid a small lime screed floor in a bathroom and wish I had found this beforehand. Just wondering as I have a few small cracks and indentations now the floor has dried. How can I fix them before putting a micro cement on?
You could mix up some fine sand to; 1 part lime (same as what you used for the floor) and 2 parts sand. This will fill any cracks and shallow depressions.
Thank you!
This is a great video and coincidently, this is the exact same job that i am about to carry out in my 1820's Victorian cottage, even the ground sandy-clay soil is the same. Due to budget constraints, it will entirely be done by myself and my wife. Even lifting of the previous 6" concrete floor with DPC membrane. All of the materials you have used is essentially the same of what we intend to use. I do have a quick question however - would you be able to provide a tooling list for the laying of the floor?
Hey, most important is a Laser Level. You can pick these up fairly cheap now or hire in. Putting in the Glapor you will need to hire a compaction plate, depending on depth compact every 8 " - 10". The rails are just 3" - 2"....make sure - check you have straight ones from the merchants, untreated is usually kept inside at the merchants so go for that it will be straighter. Urethane float, again from any tool or builders merchants, I like to have a big and small one. Small one for pushing material about, big one for floating up. We use a plasterers Darby for screeding between the rails.
Good luck👍
I need to do this too, but need to convince my wife it's worth the upheaval! One concern I have is mixing and laying it myself - I presume the whole room would need to be done all at once? How gave you got on?
I'm renovating a 1850's brick terrace in Bolton, Geocell is now installed and at the stage of putting in the underfloor heating pipes then limecrete screed the floor. NHL 5 is ordered from Mike Wye but I only have a barrel mixer, do you hire out the auger mixer? It's a small area, less than 32 sq m at 150mm
Hey, apologies for not replying sooner. We have a towable pan mixer. if we are doing small areas we use the Baron mixers....maybe two of them. drop use an email if you need to hire anything.
1:28 we need horse hair in that floor not fiberglass 😂
Hi,
Great video! I'm limecreting a floor on my house, it's 4.5m x 5m . If I can't do it all in one day, is there anything I should do to make the joins work okay? I'm concerned there might be problems with drying times although the total drying time doesn't bother me.
Hi, no issue with having a night joint on the floor. We normally step the joint, cutting a neat line makes it easier to joint the next day. There won't be an issue with the drying times. Best to leave a few weeks before covering, but you should be able to walk / work on it after 2-3 days.
thanks for a good vidio, any suggestions for using the lime as a tile laying mix too.... I did similar with natural stone slabs a few years ago, and though i had recorded how i did it, but now i cant find any details of the experimental lime mix we used to lay the slaps. its seems to have worked well, I've been using my outside kitchen for over a year now and the floor seems to be holding up fine, so id like to repeat the process, if only id written down my mix!
I feel your frustration. We are constantly using different mixes and project. Now we have recording sheet that sits in the job folder.
You can purchase Lime tile adhesive. I think Cornish Lime do one. However, we have mixed our own using Silica sand mixed with 50% NHL 5 and 50% Calbux, we also add Casein. Ratios is 1 part Lime to 2 parts sand.
thanks for replying
im in rural spain where i have to use what i can get hold of..... lime powder is about it...@@UKRestorationServices
@@TheWellbeingWitch I think the Secil nhl 5 is made in Portugal
im restoring an old stone house.i wasnt aware of limecrete floors and i installed a concrete slab.since i m more into natural building shall i remove the concrete and make limecrete slab instead OR install limecrete slab on top of concrete?would appreciate ur opinion
Hi thanks for the comment. I would not recommend installing the limecrete over the concrete. If you have good external water levels and good drainage around the building it would just leave the concrete. It is more important to control the external factors. This needs to be done even when installing limecrete, like in the video. Rather than remove the concrete use the funds to externally repoint, improve drainage etc. Limecrete is preferred but not essential.
6:18 so what kind of prep to the floor did you do.....vapor barrier or other aggregates compacted?
On this one, we just excavated the floor. The existing sub-ground was dense and hard. We have on other projects compacted a limestone down where the ground is softer. 6 could just install more Glypor.
We use a none woven geotextile onto the sub-ground. This sheeting is then folded onto the top of the glypor. We generally glue this together.
So moisture can pass through this textile fine?@@UKRestorationServices
a stupid question. How do you know when you have high groundwater table or not?
There is no such thing as a stupid question. If you excavate a hole 400mm x 400mm x 800mm deep, on a dry evening, leave overnight. Next day, inspect and see if there is any water. No water = good ground drainage, low water table. 100mm from top = high water table!!! Many other factors can alter results. This is a very basic test.
@@UKRestorationServices Thank you. I thought that high water table/low water table was fluctuating with weather conditions/rain
Is the gravel 6 to10 mm pea gravel ?
Hi, yes defiantly pea gravel can be used.
Have you ever laid a limecrete floor using pure lime instead of an NHL? I suspect the downside of doing so would be potentially not having a floor surface that's robust enough to walk on, but would it be good enough to lay flags or tiles on with underfloor heating pipes embeded in it?
The more that gets known about NHLs the more red flags emerge regarding it's permeability. Do you have a view?
PS I hope you win the appeal on the derelict farm.. Will be very interesting to see what you do with it. Good luck with that. Rediculous the planners knocked it back.
You are correct using a NHL 5 will result in minimal breathability. NHL 3.5 can be used with success, slightly more breathability. Not done one without an Hydraulic set. I suspect that there would be issues with it setting at all.
Most issues with high ground moisture level require better drainage around the property. Or have some sort of external problem. These need really addressing before putting the new floor down.
We are going to be putting a new planning video up soon with the latest developments. Bloody frustrating but lots of lessons learnt.
Does a screed go on top ?
We installed tiles on this floor. Generally, now the underfloor heating pipes go on the formed glass with a limecrete over them.
Why the synthetic fibre? Plastic? It can not be reused anymore and not natural. Why not natural fibres?
Natural fibres would be at change of decay if the moisture levels increased in the floor from ground. Also, if there was a high water / moisture content and the drying out period was extended.
As I understand these types of fibers they are made of materials that can't be recycled in other ways and would go to the land fill or incinerated. Seems to me better encapsulated in this form that may not come out for hundreds of years. Even when it does come out I would likely be broken down to large aggregate in another mix and reincapsulated. Better than being in the land fill beyond it's second ,third or more useful lifetime.