Subaru's New Hybrid! Savior Of Internal Combustion For Years To Come?! Subaru Mazda & Toyota Convene
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- Опубліковано 15 чер 2024
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Little correction to the video. The new system is series parallel, like the E-Boxer. Not a series system. The system is just compacted to fit in the engine bay. The news articles I read on the matter weren’t super clear. A viewer has shared this video with me on the Subaru presentation - ua-cam.com/video/dT9vHtgEHWA/v-deo.htmlsi=DFLisTmc1BAcDKzl
Full presentation - ua-cam.com/video/baRkJxTTMng/v-deo.htmlsi=GhwOYt70hiVec5lJ
The series system is nothing new to the automotive field. Remember the GM Volt?
@@thegreatfalcon5 missed me mentioning it in the video?
@@MrSubaru1387 Oupsidoo maybe yes :P
Finally, someone makes reference how freight trains have been using this technology forever. I've been bringing that up for so long, to people saying "how advance etc the technology is," lol.
Everything that's not a plug in with a battery only range over 100 miles is a waste of engineering money. The world's major economies will eventually outlaw ICE power in ordinary cars. Now is when car makers have time to be ready. America has tried diesels, so it's safe to dismiss them from mind like film cameras which are now a niche product.
If they can make it affordable to buy, dependable, cheap to maintain, good gas mileage, and plenty of power... I'm all for it.
That is a big ask. Might be a long time before that happens.
They have had the tech since the 80s had a reduler at a gas station bought a brand new town car back in 89 88 something like that picket it up at the factory drive it to Cincinnati and the gas gauge dint move it took less than 2 gallons to fill it up and I'm pretty sure he picket it up in Detroit I went over it had one of the weirdest carb/throttle bodies I had ever seen he left Cincinnati to go to Florida for a week then came back and had barely used a half tank he said he was calling Chrysler to see what was going on I told him that wouldn't be a good idea they may take it back or u may end up dead well he called them he definitely dint have much choice in giving it back but he did get a brand new one with everything included for free plus they took back his loan still think it was stupid could have saved so much over the years on gas. But they basically gave him a deal if he refused they still would have gotten it back and he would have disappeared. All we could figure is it was experimental something they forgot to take off. Still never seen a fuel injection like it so when I hear about other people and companies making stuff like that it's believable to me but only because I have seen one that worked
Yes, Subaru will pay you to buy them.
You can pick 3 out of 4 of those options.
You done need power. Just buy a Corolla and you'll have it all alongside with a Mazda 3 or an Impreza
No EV for me in the rust belt. We get cold winters. Lows going below zero at night happen every winter. I hope Subaru does not forget that some people who buy their cars expect them to last a long time. Small displacement turbocharged engines on average do not last as long as larger normally aspirated engines.
A hybrid will feel the mileage drop at colder temps, but if the fuel cell is the same size as the non hybrid there wont be a huge drawback in range comparatively. EV you lose range and can't pull in and top up in a couple minutes. I fought this issue with an electric bike trailer we were designing with 100 mile range. Below 20f the range tanked.
Long life... in the rust belt?
Turbos last plenty long. My subaru is a 2008 with over 100k.
Turbos benefit even more than NA from direct injection.
It's not the 70s or 80s any more.
@@heh2k 100K is nothing... get into the 300 to 400 range
@@alanmartinez488 true, I've seen posts of 300k turbo subis.
To state they should operate as a diesel is not wise. In the USA the government is stupid in how they demand diesels to run on DEF systems. Traditional diesels are amazing and run the many miles.
very interesting Mr. Subaru, looking forward to hearing more about it 👍
Watching your channel helped me to overcome the anxiety of purchasing a vehicle with a CVT. In the last 2 years I have been in accidents (no fault of mine) that totaled a 2004 Grand Marquis and a 2020 Ford Escape. Walked away with bruising. Safety was a primary concern for a small car purchase so Subaru came into focus, also did not want a tiny turbo engine. Now happy with a 2024 Forester Wilderness. The 1.5 minute warm up is a little annoying but if it will prolong the CVT life it’s a minor inconvenience.
Thanks Mr Subaru! I own a Subaru Crosstrek 2018 year model since march this year and have been following your channel since than. Its a mystery for me that Subaru USA doesnt provide you with a original car that you can review. You are the most viewed Subaru Channel on youtube as far as I know. Keep up the good work man! Greetings from Sweden!
I’m absolutely loving my 2020 Camry Hybrid. I’m averaging just over 53 mpg year round over 40k miles.
A piece of automotive history. A 1916 Owens Magnetic. A gasoline engine running a generator. Jay Leno’s Garage UA-cam channel has a video of this car. History repeating itself.
The diesel driven genset with electric drive motors is what i have been saying was needed since the 90s.....
I’d buy a Subaru with a Toyota engine and transmission in a heartbeat.
This technology is dating back to the WW2 with the German U-boat design. They had a diesel motor driving a generator to charge the batteries that power the electric motor for the propellers. The technology is still adopted by some countries for their submarines today.
While I'm not against fully electric plug-in vehicles, the technology and infrastructure will need to be more fully developed. The comparison to the way railroad locomotives work may not be familiar to many people and the whole concept of changing tech reminds me of my late dad on this fathers day. He was born in September 1908, the same month the model T Ford began production and while horses were still the most common means of individual transportation. He drove wagons pulled by horses as a boy and at the age of 12 went to work delivering milk from a Model T truck. The infrastructure for autos was dismal but rapidly improving as was the auto tech itself. Fast forward some years and he became a boilermaker on the B&O railroad, apprenticed to his father. They kept the trains rolling during WWII, the best means for moving men and material across the nation. After the war, however, the diesel electric locomotives replaced the steam locos and in 1956 at nearly 48 years old his profession was gone so he went to work in an industry that was by then beginning to rival the railroads, the trucking industry. He went to work for International Harvester building trucks until his retirement in 1970. There's a lesson there for all the folks today wailing and whining about changing transportation technologies. The tech is evolving, and we have to evolve with it; it's been done before and will be done again after we're gone.
The difference back then, it made sense to move to cars or move to diesel locomotives, we don't all need to jump to electric cars....if you want them great, but stop forcing them.......the government needs to stop trying to mandate EVs as well...not everyone needs to change from what already works.....
@@truckercowboyed2638Do you have an EV? I doubt it….they aren’t mandated I guess. No one is forcing you and ICE will be around for a long time. By the time you are ‘forced’ to buy one you might already want one
this is exactly what most people fail to understand - the issue of infrastructure. it doesn't happen overnight.
@@daos3300 they don't understand that the infrastructure we have for automobiles today didn't happen overnight. In the early days there weren't gasoline stations everywhere and most streets and roads were dirt, mud when it rained. It took decades before the interstate highway system was developed in the 1950's, and until that time most cars were not really capable of the sustained speeds seen now. They expect it to happen overnight and decide it's no good if it doesn't. Much of society has become impatient and expects instant gratification.
and we don't need big oil for it.
you can make a lot of energy with solar and sell it on your own charger at your own diner to people who want to fuel their electric horse while they take a break and enjoy their meal.
Subarus big markets are Canada, Alaska, and the northern states (the good ones). They do not want hybrids or all electrics.
Subaru is late to this clean city car party and many other companies are doing it better.
This AWD system still works at its best with a standard gas or diesel power plant. We are still many years away from that changing.
If you want a hybrid or all electric be prepared to lose the AWD.....and at that rate you shouldn't be looking at Subaru.
The boxer and symmetric drive is not negotiable. Without both of these there is no point of Subaru and they might as well finish up and go 100% Toyota owned. Diesel would be good fuel wise but soot emissions are difficult and you end up with unreliable DPFs and Adblue. Meanwhile I’ll keep my EJ257 in my socially unacceptable STi.
Especially if you have an insatiable head gasket habit.
@@rcpmac Yes, because the MLS head gaskets are totally known for their failures. It's totally not the cheaper gaskets in the non-turbo engines.
Meanwhile, as someone with an EJ257.. They're still fun after all these years.
Great video. I shared it on my Facebook too. Best of luck with your channel.
I really like the way you explain things. I can’t wait for my Subaru Sambar to arrive from Japan in August.
Love the idea of a diesel electric! But with plug in option as well to use solar charging at home…
The Subaru diesels were basically a great idea. However, they had MASSIVE problems in Europe with cranks having alignment issues and engines being scrap after 120-180k miles. Also considering the DPF and EGR issues that diesels are having, I would definitely lean towards the gas engines.
Petrol also has EGR and now GPF 🫠
Automakers really tried diesel passenger cars here in the US back in the 80s. It wasn’t super popular mostly for reliability and drivability issues;however, modern diesel has largely worked that out. My problem with diesel in passenger cars is cost. Anything diesel related is big 💰. From initial purchase to repairs. Gas is less efficient, but far more economical
The subaru diesel engine was a tragedy. So many issues and second hand diesel subarus are worthless, nobody wants them. I had it and regretted it. And was happy when the camshafts snapped. Swapped to the gasoline one and never looked back
perhaps maintain your car better.
@wpgspecb please try to think, thinking is so important. It was maintained by Subaru and had the oil and filters changed every 7500km. It was a common fault in that engine. Again try to think before writing.
Hybrid is the way to go. No EV in my future.
Plug in hybrid is also great. Small EV range from a medium-sized battery, hybrid for the rare days you drive more. Law of diminishing returns; bigger battery for more range results in a beefier brakes and suspension which adds weight which hurts your range; you end up chasing your own tail
@chrisschultz6129 I've heard that a hybrid doesnt make much sense for highway driving, theyre better for city driving, how true is it?
Compared to BEV, hybrid makes a lot of sense if you have long distances to travel and not a lot of urban density, which is basically all the flyover states in the US. But long distances and low density are also what make make the car terrible for the environment in the first place... like not the car, but the urban planning. Really, neither BEV, hybrid or PHEV are the answers because what's really inefficient is moving a 180lb person in a 4000lb container. The answer is trains or walkable cities.... so yeah, since there's no will for that, if you live in a sprawly city, hybrids make a lot of sense.
You still replace the hybrid battery when the time comes. That will cost you at least 2k. Unless you're not keeping the car. You still do your oil change and spark plugs .
Yes and no. @@Nikolaodom Basically in a Prius the hybrid battery can fail to provide enough battery power when it wears out or gets old. Just like calling the cable guy, there are professionals or techs that can affordably replace the battery after a trade in. Basically they diagnose and repair what is wrong. And sometimes it can be only one cell that needs to be replaced. But obviously the pros will take on the responsibility to figure out what do to with the broken battery. I recommend to stay vigilante shortly after the repair just in case the repaired battery is not as good as they said it is. We had to change it twice. Maybe battery repair success varies. But I had no problem after that.
My god already 3 bot posts
Side note, I have 2016 Crosstrek CVT and watch you for all my DIY maintenance needs.
One of the few content creators I sub to
I swear they’re automatic
Watching the press release, it was my understanding that the boxer engine would power both the car directly and the generator for the battery. Why else would you need a cvt? I am confused.
finally! someone who shares my opinions : series hybrids with diesel fuel sipping ICE! unfortunately, the EPA in Murica killed small diesels due to nonsensical and oppressive emission rules!
I've been to countries where they have the "old" diesels and it brought me back to the olden days in the USA, where you about died following a bus. They NEEDED to be "oppressed".
@@jamesvandamme7786 Yep. nothing like taking the local bus system in my mom's home town in Mexico where the busses are poorly maintained and reek of diesel.
With a diesel engine it would be too expensive
Volvo, VW BMW... all discontinuing diesel worldwide. Don't blame US
Very interesting analysation. I think the diesel hybrid is worth checking
The series hybrid is interesting. Since 2017 London taxis have been made with this system by LEVC (Geely).
Included is a 3 cylinder gas engine from a Volvo ( also owned by Geely). Since gasoline engines are more efficient at certain speeds (rpm) the battery charging can be optimized for maximum efficiency. That said I was hoping that Subaru would drop the boxer engine and adopt the Toyota dynamic force A25A-FXS engine. This hybrid system ( including the ecvt) seems to be the most efficient one out there. In my opinion, efficiency outweighs the benefits of the boxer engine.
I think your idea of a diesel is fantastic... I have followed trains for a long time have wondered like you ... I am on my forth Forester but will have to look at the Mazda or Honda . Thanks for you ideas and knowledge ...
I have a 23 Premium and I love it. I regularly average 35.1 mpg here in the warmer months. Average high 32s to low 33s winter fuel. South Coast of Massachusetts. I regularly get about 500+ miles before I fuel up with 80-100 miles left in the tank. I must've got a good one no oil consumption that I can see or notice. Check oil every week. My only complaint about the car is the rattling sunroof which is starting to bum me out but I can live with it. Like the hybrid idea though as long as the drive train still works as great as it does as far as the full time AWD system is concerned.
Owner of a 2024 Forester E-Boxer Adventure (Sport in the US). Pretty nice, seamless hybrid system. It is not gonna set fire on the road with its power but it gets the job done really good. I want to point out the one thing that a lot of people are missing out on is that when we are talking about fuel efficiency we forget a very very VERY big thing that Subaru cars have and that is the symmetrical AWD system. Forester is always an AWD vehicle 22cm off the ground and its REALLY logical that it will have worse fuel consumption than for example Rav4 Hybrid. Even if Subaru produces a hybrid engine the fuel consumption will always be somewhat worse than a Rav4 Hybrid which weighs less, is lower to the ground and in its 4WD system it just has a rear electric motor which the car sends power to when it senses it needs to. So to sum up we just need to compare things with what they really are. Great video and presentation, keep up the good work!
excellent point, thats exactly right however there is an article where a Subaru tech executive states that the new hybrid system will operate like a Toyota but will also get better mileage and EV range than the previous versions. i was confused because there was no plug in forester and the crosstrek hybrid in other markets was a eBoxer. but that apart he categorically stated the rear wheels would be driven by two motors. so it may not be the same as touota but not what Subaru had in the past either. i don't understand how a bigger battery will lead to more fuel savings in hybrid mode. to be seen
Diesel series hybrid - the same system as Edison Motors are using in their prime movers and their conversion kits. It makes a lot of sense and I'd definitely take that over using a petrol motor to drive the generator. Anyway, this sounds like a good development from Subaru. Thank you for the video.
@@Mquin02 then that's disappointing. Hopefully one day they will take the next step.
The internal combustion engine needs a savior like the horse did. No one forced people to give up their horses when cars first came out, and it took time. But few today still want to ride a horse, though I defend their right to do so.
I generally don't care for increased complexity in drivetrain technology as it increases the likelihood of failure.
That said, I would strongly consider a plug-in hybrid that allows for electric-only drive as my employer offers free EV charging.
Tesla is on sale at a great price.
Awesome. I've said for years now that a full series hybrid is exactly the way to go. No need for parallel drive paths. You get all the drivetrain efficiency of an electric without the need for a huge battery. The gas engine can also be tuned for max efficiency since it no longer needs to make torque from 1000 to 5000 rpm. GM was way way ahead of the curve with the Volt, but people weren't yet ready for it
Imagine the high compression of a diesel with Subaru engineered head gaskets.
I'd like my next car to be an Outback for it's utility, ruggedness and AWD, but I've been wondering for years how Subaru would figure out how to compete with only their IC engines and mechanical AWD, both being their signature design. Unfortunately there's no easy way to make that design into a hybrid, but this latest setup looks like very positive steps forward. I would probably still buy an Outback if it had a 100% Toyota AWD Hybrid electric motor setup. I'm guessing that Toyota isn't going to hand that over directly to Subaru, which is why they are designing this boxer/hybrid setup. I really don't think the average person and/or a die hard Subaru fan looking to buy a new Subaru, would avoid buying it, if it had a full hybrid Toyota powertrain. I think it would actually be a huge positive, as it would be a known reliable and solid powertrain. For me, I'd rather buy a Subaru with a 100% Toyota powertrain, than a brand new, modified/adapted conglomerate with unproven reliability, using a modified IC engine and setup that wasn't designed to be a hybrid engine. If you look at the Toyota hybrid engines and their entire system, it's fascinating how well engineered they are to be efficient and reliable for the exact purpose that they were built.
Toyota 86 - A Subaru at heart, with a Toyota 6 speed automatic rear wheel drive transmission (also in the BRZ). They have been sharing a lot of things ever since GM sold off the 20 percent and Toyota bought it.
If Subaru can match the economy Toyota is hitting with their hybrids, it's the way to go. I happen to live in an area where the cost of electricity is so high that EVs cost more per mile to fuel than gas cars. So while an EV can certainly out accelerate similar gas cars, they do it at extra cost. A co-worker bought a Camry hybrid and his mileage is in the high 50's. Now that's worth looking to. But cost also matters. My 19 Crosstrek premium manual was $22k brand new. I'm not paying fifty grand for hybrid.
I like Hondas hybrid design too, no transmission, just a generator.
Only plug in hybrids cost 50k. Regular hybrids in Toyotas add less than 1k to the price of an awd car. Subaru is joined at the hip with Toyota if they ever want to do hybrids upon their entire line. The only way EVs costs more to run than a gas car is if you use fast charge units. Subaru knows that. EVs are in everyone’s future. Gee, the average Subaru has electric solenoids and motors powering nearly every thing except the drive motor, which is totally managed and dependent on electricity. The unfounded fear of EVs is hilarious.
I live in New Hampshire and have been driving my 2013 Ford Fusion Hybrid as my commuter vehicle since 2016, and I love it. Forty-five plus average for over 110,000 miles. These are the answer for fuel economy. The big question is how long before I have a major malfunction with the electrical system. Only time will tell.
You seem very candid and realistic. I'm not used to that in YT comments. Cheers and best of luck to you.
Cruise ships use the same system. Diesel engines power the electric generators. The electric generators drive the azipod motors which are 180 degree trainable to move and steer the ship. No traditional rudders.
Good Video! As a Subaru owner (5th one), it's always good to hear the latest news and possible future developments. I like the "boxer" engine but would have no problem with something else. We've owned, and currently own, other makes of cars. For me, the "boxer" doesn't perform any better for everyday driving than I've experienced with Honda, Hyundai, Chrysler, etc. I like the concept and dependability of the "boxer," but with regular service on all our vehicles (and we keep them about 10 years), we've seen no real difference except, perhaps, the mileage.
IMO, it's the right direction, but in Subaru's case, they need to drop the Boxer, while symmetrical AWD. Maybe call it the eSYM AWD system where like Toyota, they drive the rear wheels with it's one set of electric motors. The fronts get driven by 1 electric motor with an open diff, just like Toyota, but in the rear, instead of 1 motor using symmetrical axles, use 2 electric motors. This way, there's no need for torque vectoring with brakes.. And they can truly have the best AWD off pavement system out there for the masses.
So if it doesn't power the wheels, is it just always idling? Not going thru a rev range? How many thousand miles you reckon that service interval will be? A generator is a light load compared to the mass of a car, right? So relatively light load on the engine you think?
The series engine described is basically what the Chevrolet Volt was 10-15 years ago. The sole duty of the gas engine was to generate power to drive an electric motor and charge the battery pack. Difference was the Volt's battery, around 18 KWH if memory serves, could also be plugged in to create an initial full charge if desired. - You could also remote start the gas engine to charge the battery, which didn't really make sense. The actual propulsion was 100% electric, just with an small engine providing the electric to charge/run the vehicle.
I Had a Chevy Cruise Diesel, Over the road salesman, It worked Great, but most people do short hops, any Diesel won't like that! 😇I like the Japan built Forester, when my Outback dies.
I loved that Mitsubishi did something like this with their Plugin Hybrid Outlander. I am excited to see how well this system is received in the USA and I would love to see its' reliability.
The EPA’s stricter fuel economy requirement is driving automakers to build hybrids and EV’s. Some of their attempts hurt the reliability of ICE’s like thinner viscosity oils for lubrication. At the same time, car and truck prices have skyrocketed. Whatever happened to better public transportation systems?
I love your accent Robert 🙂, Arkansas ?
Love from Czech rep. Thx for great content.
South Carolina....which historically qualifies as "the deep (US) South". Not all "Southern" states are genuinely 'deep South' states. (Language, customs, accents so forth).
I'm in southern Ontario Canada. We've seen a dramatic change in our winters with lower snow days and milder temperatures. We've been driving Subaru's since the mid 90's but it's becoming challenging to justify the added cost of AWD considering added cost in hardware, repair and lower fuel economy. We would welcome a FWD variant at this point. Subaru should consider marketability of their AWD taking into account global warming.
I have a ford cmax and Prius and soon to be f150 powerboost. I’m sold on hybrids for long distance driving, off-road, and camping. City driving can be EV. My cars get mid 40’s to 50’s and have great acceleration. Bring on the hybrid.
Hoping for some boost to HP with any new engine designs.
I bought a new 1983 RX-7 and drove it for 15 years (wish I still had it). I really liked the smooth rotary engine so I would consider trading in my 2018 Forester for the new Mazda hybrid but my Forester is manual transmission with 25K miles. We’ll see how it looks.
Egad, complexity. Wish I still owned my 1966 Chevy Custom 10.
I am looking forward to Subaru having a decent hybrid. One of the reasons that has prevented me from buying a new Subaru is I absolutely hate the start stop system, they put on the new Subarus for admissions. Hybrid makes sense. Looking forward to a new direction for Subaru with hybrid technology. #HybridTechnologyFromToyota.❤
Hi mr Subaru I have a 2015 2.5i forester premium with 114000 miles on it. I love the car. I would definitely consider a new hybrid subaru. When my 2015 dies which probably wont for years. Hopefully the price won't be too outrageous.
Yup. Subarus are very “ well thought out” vehicles. Their life expectancy is a notch below Toyotas but they far surpass them in a lot of ways that make them more comfortable and easier to live with, even if it is a little less time than a Toyota.
Is the generator more electric motor used as generator or a dedicated and optimized alternator made by mechman? Diesel is heavy.
Over here in Europe, Mazda has been shipping rotary hybrids called the MX-30 R-EV for almost a year now. It's basically a full-on EV with a single rotor "range extender" stuck onto a generator. Pretty neat concept if your driving profile matches it. As with most series hybrids, long range highway driving isn't the best in terms of fuel mileage with those, but if most of your driving is done over hills and/or stop-and-go traffic, the regenerative braking and the beefy battery means that for most of the time, the rotary rarely has to kick in if at all. Good thing too, as it sounds like an angry lawnmower anyway, haha
Interesting to see Subaru going basically the same direction with the new generation of engines, we'll see how it goes. :)
Ram is doing something similar with ram charger.
The difference eie they will have independent electric motors on each axle, eliminating the need for a transmission, prop shaft and solid axles. Pretty big space and weight savings.
Kinda surprised after all these years there's still so few hybrid vehicles. I like EVs but I just don't think they're ready for prime time, needs a TON more infrastructure to support it. So more hybrids is a good transition.
I have the 2023 Crosstrek Plug In Hybrid and it is fantastic. I really hope that they offer another Plug In Crosstrek in the future, but it seems likely not. I am all for their future plans and am excited to experience them.
Like if existing combustion engines were not complicated enough, now they will be complemented with electrical units. Repairs will no doubt be a nightmare.
Check Prius reliability. It’s not new technology
Not bad for Toyota Priuses...... own both a 2014 Subaru Outback 133K miles, 2005 Scion tC 179K miles , 2010 Toyota Prius 103K miles... 2nd Gen or 4 Gen Priuses are better 3rd gen Prius suffer headgasket issues kind of like Subaru and their EJ Series Engines..
As a long time Electronic Technician and DIY shade tree mechanic, its not that bad and it does bring simplifications. Take the AC. No belt, no pulley, no clutch,. The compressor can run at best rpm regardless of engine speed. It's not all more complicated. If we got better right to repair laws in the US , Phones and tablets could simplify so much of the diagnostic work for the DIY mechanics and small shops.
@@valdius85 Toyota remains invested in hydrogen research. I think I know why. More and more components and intertwined more intricately in hybrid systems is not a recipe for affordability, reliability and ease of repairs.
@@sezwo5774
Their hybrid vehicles are hybrids as well :)
Subaru released eBoxer cars in the European and Asian markets for the forester and crosstrek but the fuel savings were minimal at best..
The series Hybrid was actually first designed and built in 1900 in the Semper Vivus which was designed by Ferdinand Porsche. So the Hybrid actually goes way back but would take a little under 100 years to become a viable product, in automobiles anyway.
I like the idea of a plug in hybrid to 220V at home, in the garage, to get 40+ miles. We could use solar panels to charge the car. I like your idea of using a the small diesel to charge the battery, if needed for more miles.
Agreed with the diesel. My concern is that for some reason, diesel is significantly more per gallon than gasoline…… at least in northern NJ.
Yes, Why does the price of diesel fluctuate so much compared to the price of regular gas? Diesel needs less refining compared to gasoline so it should always be cheaper. The lower price plus extra power and mileage should be a win/win for diesels as they are much more common in the rest of the world, outside of USA.
My brother loves his Chevy Volt for the reason of having an onboard generator.
It looks they have completely eliminated the continuously variable transmission, which eliminates a major cost and maintenance area. Running the engine only to power the generator also means better economy when an engine is operating under a more consistent load. A turbo is not necessary since the battery handles transient needs like getting on the freeway or passing. The engine only really needs to be big enough to keep the car moving at 80-85 mph with maybe a 25% margin for climbing hills. Getting used to hearing the engine changing rpm would be the only negative, perhaps.
Make it diesel, do the side swinging hatch with the spare on it, turn the cargo under the floor into a fridge for groceries, and give us access to the battery with ac plug ins.
great vid!
To Mazdas credit, a constant speed constant load role (turning a generator) is about the only thing a rotary is good for.
Sounds awesome! I really hope we see diesel because I want to be able to tow my boat with a regular Forester.
If you want to see a good example of the system you are describing, check out the bmw i3 with rex (range extender). Still my favorite car ever, wish more manufacturers would make similar solutions as you can have a semi small battery/range and no range anxiety as you can use no gas 99% of the time but pop in some petrol to go further when you need to
I feel like a renewed version of their inline 3 would have been a good alternative to the boxer for this application.
Loved my 2016 Forester, except the rubbery CVT. The eCVT in my 2019 RAV4 Hybrid is much better. Looking forward to the eBoxer. Glad that Subaru is keeping its Fuji Heavy Industry DNA.
A small diesel engine would be the perfect complement to the more elegant series hybrid designs. It will be interesting to see these designs evolve over the next 10 years. Going EV overnight makes as much sense as EV long haul trucking. With that said incentivizing EV in large cities to help with commutes and local freight? That makes a ton of sense. Amazon's fleet of EV delivery vans comes to mind. I'd love one plug-in EV to drive a couple miles to work, pick up groceries, and run errands around town. I'd still have another hybrid for long trips, light towing, and camping/fishing/hunting. I don't need a single vehicle that does it all. I need a couple to save me money and cover the bases.
Diesel electric is an interesting notion. You get the economy of diesel with the performance of electric, plus the fuel tends to remain stable longer (seemingly) than gasoiline.
In Subaru I value the symmetrical AWD, the boxer engine, and a manual transmission. They are also generally attractive cars as well. I also Ike that over the years mechanically they don't change that much so parts availability are good. I don't buy that CO2 is a pollutant but do believe that fossil fuels are limited so I would like it if car motors were better equipped to run on fuels such as ethanol which theoretically could be produced locally. My understanding is that the original Ford Mode T could run on alcohol produced on the farm.
I replaced every working part in a 2006 Subaru Outback. Never again.
Thank God, someone has been listening to me somewhere! Yes to that electric generator "à-la" locomotive diesel engine (that have been introduced as early as 1920s). What we need after that, is find a way to synthesis fuel so that it breaks down to non-polluting gas.
Edit: And the rotary engine is almost the perfect design to power a generator in a car.
So, if I understand this correct, they will not provide external charging? That means the combustion engine need to run to charge before you can use the battery? With external charging, like Mitsubishi has, you can drive just on electricity for 40-60 km (about 32 miles) before any gas is used. That covers alot of commuting, going to the store etc.
I had a CT200 hybrid, I mainly was on sport mode, which is the non electric. My neighbor just bought a Corolla Cross , he was interested in a Subaru. My other neighbor traded in her Foz, for a brand new Crosstrek, looks cool . I have a STI, I’m still the coolest guy on my block 😎, lol .. 😂
Exactly my thoughts about diesel hybrid like locomotives.
The info I saw from a Subaru Head Honcho was that the new Hybrid coming in the Forester next year is a rethink in that it doesn't just address around town. Americans spend a lot of time on the highway racking up more miles per year than most other regions. So, this new Hybrid will be addressing that.
All I want is for it to have better passing capabilities than the 2.5 (more like the 2.4l) and better fuel economy with that boost from the battery than the 2.4l (more like the 2.5...or better). Now, if Subaru would just put the 2.4l in the Crosstrek....DROOL!
Great Engineering, you can see the way they are simplifying the ICE to reduce costs and improve the design by electrifying the heat pump/alternator etc. the ultimate simplification is removing the ICE unfortunately for Subaru. If you are not in the market for a new car, no problem, keep driving what you have. When you are ready, EV's will be even better and cheaper.
It's that way the industry is trending and one has to keep up with the technology or gets lest in the dust!
This is similar to Honda’s hybrid system, but the Honda will physically engage the ICE at around 45 MPH. Neither this nor the Honda will match Toyota’s setup in power and efficiency because series hybrid is inherently less efficient, requiring 2 conversions more often (gas to rotation, rotation to electricity). I do like how it eliminates the need for a traditional transmission - gets rid of my belt-driven CVT worries.
Great overview! Many agree that hybrids are an intermediate step for consumers in transitioning from ICE to BEV. More importantly, it is an intermediate step for OEMs. A full transition requires many $billions in new investment and abandoning many $billions in existing investments. It would bankrupt most firms if they had to do it overnight. They need hybrids to generate positive cash flow while making the transition.
E-boxer is the 1st gen tech style.
I own one, for the price I’ve paid it’s decent enough, but not perfect.
Yes, that is the way to go with hybrid system.
Reduce the front end overhang of Subaru cars. Increase approach angle
If an inline configuration is more efficient than horizontally opposed, then the scenario doesn't change by going to diesel. At the very most it's a way of stubbornly continuing to turn out boxers. It's a fairly big price to continue to pay for slightly lower CoG and the meagre torque savings by not having to turn rotational forces 90⁰ to get power to the rear wheels. Oh wait, it still has to make a turn to power the front wheels so we're back to just CoG perks. And that's even if fr and rr were to be powered strictly by electric motor.
Lastly, in an effort to be as fair as possible here, I suppose in some frontal crashes Subaru has always driven the engine down, thereby protecting the passenger cage . Mfgrs using inline engines have been doing the same but I think it's easier to ensure with the boxer? I'm not sure if this still applies.
Sounds fun for the new forester I’m interested
I'm all for this, I just hope Subaru produces them in sufficient numbers so that there are plenty to go around. I have a feeling they are going to be next to impossible to find for months, if not a year or more after release due to the huge demand for hybrids right now. I guess there is always special ordering, but I just hope its not one of those things where you have to call 10 different dealers to find one...
Makes total sense, I own a condo and I'm not going to buy a house just so I can put in an EVSE (charger). I love Subaru, and that's what I want to drive. Honda uses this setup with their hybrids as well, I had a 2019 Insight for awhile and it worked great.
The Volt was a solid stepping stone to EVs so a series system is great provided the electric motor is appropriately sized. It looks like Subaru is keeping their transmission so a decent amount of efficiency will be lost vs a 2 motor eAWD. I get it, the Boxer and their AWD transmission are their identity but I agree with you efficiency will have to be improved some where down the road. Its a good step forward but now they need to EXECUTE well over the next 2 model years to determine how good the decision actually is. I'm optimistic though.
Good video. I've thought the loco system was something to consider as it obviously has merit. Utilising a diesel would be beneficial provided it can meet emission requirements and avoid current problematic areas (filter re-gen etc). Hybrid tech is certainly the way to go IMHO.
Primary reason for Diesel-electric locomotives is to avoid the complex transmission gear from an engine to the bogies. What's the point of this setup? If you're going to the troubleand expense of putting a large-ish battery in a vehicle, why not make it a plug-in?
Anything that relies on batteries is a wrong solution for an "electric" vehicle. Batteries exist for a backup way to provide electricity, not for a main source like they all try to force us down the throath. A engine powering a generator is much better way to have an electric vehicle.
And the primary reason for Diesel-electric is to provide much greater torque to all wheels in a smooth way, and also to allow multiple engines to be paired together. Also the maintenance is quite easier than it was on steam engines.
@@Traumatree That was kinda my point with the "complex transmission gear" comment. Mechanically difficult to get the power from the prime mover to the wheels and it wouldn't be efficient with regards to acceleration (might require a "stick shift" & transmission to get any speed up). :)
With regards to road vehicles using MG sets for motive power. Take the inefficiency of the gas engine, add the losses in the generation process, then losses in charging any onboard batteries (maybe supercapacitors in the near future).
, and you'd be throwing away quite a bit of energy. Hydrogen fuel-cell might make more sense (feedstock agnostic, "renewable"), and no discharge of combustion waste products at street level.
Inline 4, 1L, VVT, FWD. That is what SUBARU NEEDS!!!
I wouldn’t say it’s new. My old Chevy volt works on this concept. The vehicle doesn’t even have a transmission to drive the point home. I believe the new accord works on the same concept as well. As in, for sale today.
Edit. Should have watched longer. Earlier wording referencing trains made me think it would be ignored. Volt has a 50 mile EV range (my real world in 4 season weather) which adds a lot of value for me with free electricity.
never understood why a diesel hybrid hasnt been made. except for the VW XL1