@@keithcullison9152love Queensryche from its inception from the Ep thru promised land Michael was a major contributor as well check the erring credits… love Chris but he bailed on his high school friends and I’m. It talking about Geoff he was asked to join the band so they record the ep….at this time he was still with Myth
Chris DeGarmo was the creative genius behind Queensryche. When he decided to pack it in then the band no longer had any focus or vision for the band. It would be like Rainbow trying to carry on without Richie Blackmore or Iron Maiden without Steve Harris.
My thoughts exactly. I was a huge fan in the '80s and early '90s. (I thought Rage for Order was one of their best) I suspect the departure of guitarist Chris DeGarmo foretold the downward spiral DeGarmo leaving the band was a deep wound that never really healed. The subsequent guitarists have been good players but lacked Chris's writing skills and concepts. There were even violent altercations between Geoff and the other lads that made things very tense. I doubt the classic lineup will ever exist again.
You know Chris was the main songwriter and even sang lead on the Alternative/Grunge sounding Hear In The Now Frontier album, right? Then he quit the group.
@jimmysmokes Surprisingly you're correct. I think. They changed the name of the band too with Latorre when Tate got fired. They should've kept that name. Mindcrime 2 sucked badly BTW.
I agree with you. Rage for Order was the first time I knew QR. I love the music style and the vocal of Geoff Tate. Now... it's just a history to me. I don't like that new QR at all, it doesn't fit my taste.
Here's something different for you. Geoff and I went to HS together (Wilson '77' in Tacoma). We were friends and after HS Geoff and Bob talked me into moving in and rented house. I was in my own apt, and they knew I made decent $ for the time. I painted houses and he and Bob worked at a sandwich shop. I covered his rent a time or two (for both of them) and within 6 months Geoff moved back home. Shortly after that I meet a girl and moved into my own place. Jump forward to mid 1979 I was moving to Houston (dad was there) and Geoff was then in an apt with a girl (we all knew from HS) Sandy. I stopped by and gave them a crappy couch on my way out of town. Geoff wasn't home. I have heard Geoff sing a time or two during that time and thought to myself that he should do that. When he opened his mouth, you stopped to listen. The last time I saw him I was 20. Here's the crazy part. In 83 I joined the Marine's. I never knew he was in a band until I went to visit family in 87. Thou I heard the songs, I just didn't know it was him! I wonder if he'll pay me back for the rent now? Also my dog that he let out of the basement, never to be seen again...
Knowing Geoff, no, he will not pay you back. He’s as obnoxious & ungrateful as anyone I’ve ever known. Think about how bad it had to be for QR to boot the most recognizable & marketable member of the band. He’s gotten a bit humbled lately & he’s been working to get his vocal skills back so a reunion at some point is possible. Good on you though for helping them out & giving them a couch. 🍺
@@edcollins9377 I always felt Empire was their last great album and Promised Land was their last good album. Everything after that was mostly shit in my opinion. Some decent songs here and there but nothing great at all.
I was a Bay Area Thrash Metal drummer at the time (we could be music "snobs") and I had it on heavy rotation in my stereo. I heard Geoff Tate (in a recent interview) say it was a "paint by numbers album", but I never gave that angle a thought back in the day, I just thought the songs were great and the album was solid
Chris DeGarmo. When he quit, the magic was gone. I've given every line-up and variation a chance-- and they just don't have it without him. So, Tate's in the band, Tate's not in the band... I don't care. I still listen to the old stuff from the original line-up, but every time I've listened to anything claiming to be 'Queensryche' since... I've regretted wasting the minutes listening to it. I find what Chris is doing now with his daughter far more interesting than anything Tate or Wilton/Rockenfield/Jackson LaTorre are doing. One can also note, that most of the great classic Queensryche tunes... were written or cowritten by Chris DeGarmo, certainly all of my favorite classic QR tunes were, and the very few really good tunes that were credited 'Wilton/Tate'-- DeGarmo was there to help arrange and record them, and IMO his influence on them can still be felt. But, that's my opinion and reflects the music I enjoy-- if any of these post-DeGarmo line-ups make music you enjoy, then continue to enjoy it... there's room for different tastes in music in the world. BTW-- I am an American Soldier (US Army retired now), and I really wanted to like the 'American Soldier' album-- great concept, appreciate the respect shown to our military, but unfortunately IMO all the actual songs on the album were boring as f***.
Bullshit. QR sucked after Empire. They were a big turn down to all of us.. With at gay song I am I. ?? I hung them up. I'd rather listen to Howdy Doody songs.
100% man..once Chris left it was over. It seems heavy metal bands inevitably descend into Spinal Tap territory for real when they don't know when to hang it up.
The magic was gone before Chris DeGarmo left though. Let's not forget that "Hear In The Now Frontier" exists and though there were a few good songs, as a whole it was a shit album. Queensryche finally got good again once Geoff Tate got the boot and Todd was brought it and the guys in the band were allowed to write the music again as opposed to bringing in outside writers to steer the band to Tate's tastes and vision alone.
Chris left and Geoff lost his voice. Geoff's direction in music was horrid in my opinion. BUT the previous Queensryche "Legacy" was the most incredible band I ever experienced. I really liked the way they didn't sound like the other bands that were in the system at the time. I also love the melody and harmony that the "Tate/Degarmo collaboration left behind for us. Rage for order was the first one I heard and still the best to me. I did love Operation mindcrime as well and Empire was pretty good but not exceptional. After that there were a few songs here and there but a few years later there was nothing left. The new Queensryche is not queensryche and doesn't hold my attention although Todd Latore is a fantastic singer. You just had to be there you can't remake history \m/ \m/
You nailed it. I saw an interview with Geoff Tate where he talks about Cris DeGarmo leaving. Geoff said Chris felt the band was done and Geoff didn't. Chris was right. The soul of the original band was done and they all needed to realize it. This guy even admitted it on his rant, he just focussed on Geoff in the late 90s and on sucking. Nope, it's not just Geoof, it's the lack of Chris, Geoff and Scott. It's a broken marriage. The current band is a great band but it's not Queensryche. No different than Alter Bridge is to Creed or Audioslave is to Rage against the machine.The difference between the current Queensryche and those two is those two wisely realized this and changed their names with the new line up.
I used to think Tate was God as a kid (this story gets better keep reading). As a kid the second I heard Queen of the Rÿche I knew what I wanted to do with my life. Practiced my ass off, took lessons, got good. I was the dude in high school people would ask to do metal screams “you gotta hear this guy sing.” My buddy was the dude who’d go into Guitar Center and shred arpeggio sweeps with a crowd around him. By this point we were 16. A year later we met Queensrÿche and asked them how they wrote such amazing music. Geoff said “practice” Chris said “smoke lots of weed.” We felt like we were meeting GODS. Fast forward a year and my other buddy tells me his older brother’s friend’s band is looking for a singer. Says their name is Dream Theater and he has John’s number. I call John, his mom answers. I chat with John and he asks if I have a demo. I didn’t so I offered to sing over the phone (lol totally green move). He declines and asks me to simply send a demo. Which I did. They already hired the new guy, but he was nice. Fast forward a few decades. My other buddy tells me he has a gig working on a new album for... Queensrÿche. I’m blown back. He did creative work on MC II. Tells me it was his worst experience as musician, a total disaster and a let down hanging with Geoff who was a dick. When I heard the album I hated it. Queensrÿche died when Chris left. He was the brain behind the music, Geoff was the brain behind the melodies. No interest in the new Queensrÿche. But the old stuff, up until Empire (too commercial for me), will always be classic albums for me and my bros. Side note: I can no longer hit those high notes and don’t care to. I stopped singing like that in the early 90s and moved on to an AIC sound. So much training makes it so that I can still sing fairly well today, but nowadays I sound more like Chris Cornell before he passed. RIP. 🤘🏽
For me, once Chris left the song writing went to shit. He was Queensryche. He did the majority of the compositions. He and Geoff together were great. DeGarmo's backing vocals really helped Geoff vocally. I had got into Queensryche in 83. My little brother had the Queensryche cassette and I loved it. The Warning was awesome. Really I love everything until Hear in the now Frontier. That's when I dropped off as a fan. The original band members needed the Queensryche name. Todd actually is sounding better and better. I bought Condition Human and showed support by seeing tbem live in December 2016. Honestly, I feel really bad for Geoff, I've tried to listen to him and I cringe. I have all the respect in the world for Geoff. For all of the great music that Queensryche played with Geoff and Chris. I can't wait for the new Queensryche album to come out. It won't be until 2018. The new Queensryche is very good. I love the harder edge the band is bringing. I will definitely get Queensryches next album and go see them when they come back to Pittsburgh. RYCHE N ROLL FOREVER!
Great opinion and rant. I personally have tried to get into the new Queensryche albums but I just can't. The new singer does have his own style but he shines more when he sounds like the old singer. The magic from the past is gone. It reminds me when Rob left Judas Priest. New singer was awesome but it just wasn't Priest anymore. I think I saw Fight Everytime they came into Los Angeles but never went to another Priest show until Rob joined the band again. Didn't much like their concept albums though. Singers and band members come and go and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I love the fact that when Rage Against the Machine broke up they didn't just get another singer that could rap. They reinvented themselves and Audioslave quickly became one of my favorite bands. On a quick note I just want to mention that seeing the resurrection of certain bands from the 80's is truly amazing. Sacred Reich and Kung Diamond being two of them. Sometimes just taking a break for whatever reason is the best course.
airholeahole1 lol thanks for the advice junior. Being a “lil” older, we’re always lookin for young , wisdom filled ahole’s such as yourself to set us straight. At least we have real music to look back to.
I thought Halford was great in the day, then I heard Ripper Owens. Even my 83 year old mother was impressed with his voice and she was not a rocker. This Qyeensryche story answered a lot of questions for me as to what happened to them. Thanks again Pete.
MASSIVE Queensryche fan. I've seen them live and I've also seen Geoff solo live. I agree with a lot of what you said, but I do believe that Promised Land (1994) was an unbelievable album. It was deep, dark and introspective and was the last time Geoff Tate had full control over his vocals. A part of their OLD sound had a lot to do with Chris Degarmo, even though he was on Hear in the Now Frontier, which was a subpar and boring grunge album. I felt that Tribe had some of the old Queensryche feel to it, due in part to Degarmo writing a few of the songs. American Soldier was a good album (saw them on that tour). You forgot to mention Queensryche's last album (Dedicated to Chaos) before Geoff was kicked out, as as Frequency Unknown. As for Geoff's vocals, well, the truth of the matter is, they started to first show signs of decay way back in 1988 at the start of the Operation Mindcrime tour, whereby he could no longer hit the highs he had in songs like Take Hold of the Flame and Queen of the Reich, compared to how he had last sung them in early 1987 at the end of the Rage For Order tour. The reason his range had diminished and would continually do so until he had very little range left was due to his chainsmoking. He picked up the bad habit while they were recording Operation Mindcrime and he would continue to smoke until the Hear in the Now Frontier tour, of which they had to cancel because of Geoff's throat issues, when in reality it was because he couldn't sing anymore due to chainsmoking. He briefly quit smoking and the result was improved vocals on Q2K and the following tour. Unfortunately he would start smoking again, but briefly quit in 2005, resulting in a crazy 2005 summer tour where he sounded amazing again. He started smoking again following the released of OMII and his vocals sounded bad as a result. Imo, 2009 was the LAST year Geoff sounded decent live. Since 2010 it's been painful to listen to. I saw him live last year in a small club and his singing voice (power, range, control) is a pale shadow of what it was only a decade ago, let alone how it sounded up until the mid 90's or the late the 80's. He could have and should have taken care of his voice and not destroyed it like Ian Gillan and Rob Halford did, by picking up smoking, which is the worst thing a singer who has a high octave range can do. I'm also not a fan of Todd. His vocals are too harsh and screechy when he tries to use his falsetto. Geoff had an insane natural ability to shatter glass at the drop of a dime, where as Scott has to force it and it doesn't sound clean like Geoff's vocals once did. Also Queensryche's last 2 albums with Scott sound a little too generic for me. I also have not been impressed by Geoff's solo albums either, although his first solo album from 2002 was incredible with rich, textured and gorgeous vocals.
Dan, I agree with a lot of what you said, but you mentioned Scott towards the end when I think you meant Todd. LOL Nice to see another Queensryche post.
You hit the nail on the head I’ve been listening to queensryche on UA-cam mtv unplugged from 1992 amazing how good they were I saw them in the early 90s at Irvine meadows one of the best shows ever, I wish they all could get together and do one more great show with all of original band.
Playing heavier material isn't enough for me which is why the newer stuff doesn't interest me. Chris and Geoff when they were clicking was the version I loved.
Saw them open for Kiss on their " Warning" Album Tour, LOVE Operation Mindcrime ( One of the best Rock Records EVER in my book) Geoff tate's Problems started when he Married Chris Cornell's Ex Wife and made her his manager ( Because she only ruined Chris Cornell's career before hand) Then Geoff started thinking he WAS the Band, BUT Queensryche started their Epic slide when Chris DeGarmo left the band!
Hey Pete, good video! You really are spot on with this assessment. I, like you grew up up loving the early albums & they were my favorite band for many years. Fast forward to me leaving the military near Seattle & I decided to stay up there. Soon after (1988) I became friends with some musicians up there and quickly landed right in the middle of what would become “the Seattle scene.” I dug all of it, went to thousands of shows, hung with those cats at parties and shows, but I was still a metal head. I gravitated to bands like Sactuary (and later Nevermore) Metal Church, Forced Entry, Bitter End, etc… But the entire time I was only one step removed from the guys in Queensryche. So all along, I was hearing each aspect of the whole story as it was playing out. Obviously nobody in the band was 100% innocent, but Geoff was definitely the big problem in the band. There’s a lot that’s gone unsaid about why Chris originally left & it had more to do with Geoff trying to dominate artistic control & Chris was not having that. People who defend Tate often dismiss DeGarmo leaving as “he was done playing music” but if they’d do some homework, he never stopped being involved in music. At one point he was recording and touring with Jerry Cantrell from Alice In Chains. Chris just wasn’t trying to join any more big bands with tight schedules, big pressure & big headaches. I know one of the gals that the band hired to do “the burlesque tour” and even she said “this is all Geoff’s idea and nobody but Geoff thinks it’s a good idea.” And day after day various people on the tour would be griping to people in Seattle that “it’s a complete disaster” & “Geoff has lost his damn mind.” That tour was pretty much the last straw. 2 other things that were going on. One was that Geoff was drinking a whooooole lot of booze during that time and not only did it make him more obnoxious & controlling, but it also limited his vocal range significantly, which is why they had to start dropping classic songs from the set. And 2, Geoff was extremely insecure & jealous of the bands in the “Seattle scene.” Everyone knew everyone & 99% of it was a love fest, so it wasn’t like anyone was dissing him or shunning QR. Everyone from the scene loved QR and owed them a huge debt of gratitude for paving the path forward for them, and everyone was open about that love & respect for them, whether it was random guys drinking at a bar or well known musicians talking to MTV. But Geoff really, really resented guys like Chris Cornell & Layne Staley being more relevant than he was. The rest of the band wasn’t reclusive, they were out supporting local bands & earning an even higher level of respect from “the scene.” The band was laser focused on maintaining their artistic vision and delivering music from where their hearts are at (metal) but Geoff didn’t want that at all. He wanted 1987 back again, where all eyes were on him & he & the band were selling out arenas. He became way too intoxicated by the fame he had previously achieved and it caused him to shift gears & chase something that wasn’t obtainable for an 80’s metal band. When the spitting incident happened, that was just the final straw in the final straw. In Geoff’s defense. He’s found humility at this point & has focused on getting his range back, so I’d never rule out a reunion amongst all parties (including Chris) Anyway, just wanted to let you know that you’re spot on on this & I wanted to add a few details.
Love Queensryche (I'm in Seattle, they're local boys...even though they're actually from Bellevue ;) Had the good fortune of meeting Geoff Tate when I was a teenager working at a local pizza place and he came in with his family. So cool! Super nice guy and obviously a fantastic singer. Will always remember that. I feel badly about what happened with Queensryche, but tend to mostly agree with your take on it.
I'm also from Seattle, and I've heard a much different account of Tate, lol. A former co-worker said she was at a party that he showed up to, with a drop dead gorgeous girl. He allegedly told this girl that while they're in there, she doesn't know him, and she will not speak to him. Hearsay of course, and you actually met him, so who knows.
I didn’t think so initially, but a large part was Chris DeGarmo leaving. He and Tate wrote most of their big songs. Tate went into a grunge direction once DeGarmo left and probably became the problem later on. Even though he was great during the 80s. The new Queensryche is good (with LaTorre), but not hitting the home runs when it comes to intelligent ballads or hooks that resonate with people.
I've seen Queensryche many times. The American Soldier tour was awesome and the band sounded great as they featured songs from Rage for Order, Empire and OMC. They brought someone on stage who gave us a great version of Sabbath's Neon Knights. The crowd definitely went wild. But unfortunately the following year gave us their cabaret show which left us wondering WTF is this? Needless to say we walked out in the middle of the show.
Whenever bands move away from their natural sound it can lead to problems. I call it the Diamond Head effect. I liked Operation Mindcrime and Empire but what is he 60? He can’t expect to hit the same notes as when he was in his 20’s. I listened to an interview with Chris Cornell Rip and he said some of the keys had to be reworked because late 40’s he was singing an octave lower. This is not uncommon Kate Bush said the same before she did that one off tour. People complained when she did not play Wuthering Heights but she is also around 60 so hardly surprising.
Degarmo’s writing was the key. It’s now 2021 and I think the reversed has happened. Todd’s voice seems to be struggling ( saw them open up for the Scorpions) and recently saw Geoff and his voice sounds great!!! He is still singing “Take Hold Of The Flame” !!!!! I did not like Geoff’s solo albums, that being said, i didn’t like the albums with Todd either. I would love to se all the guys get together with DeGamo and see if they got 1 more great album in them. Just one on my bucket list!!!
People need to realize that Tate is the reason Ryche had so many issues over the years. According to filed court documents. After Empire Tate took more control of the band holding everything hostage if the band didn't give in to his demands. He took full control of the songs and writing and direction. He then hired his wife to be their manager without the rest of the band voting on it as they had done in the past. And again, threatening to leave if they didn't go along with it. Then add in Tates temper and Axl-itis, Degarmo had enough and chose to leave. Tate then took absolute control of the musical direction and writing. Then bringing in song writers Tate wanted and he brought in Kelly Gray. Again without discussion w/ the band for a vote. Wilton had to help teach Gray a lot of the parts. Then Tate fired Gray due to Grays drug problems. Then the band talked Degarmo coming back for Tribe and Tate chased him off again due to not agreeing on writing etc. Tate had absolute control, not really welcoming Degarmo back etc. Then they brought in Stone which Wilton had to teach parts to him as well. Then add in Tate's tempers and assaults on band members, and let's not forget his wife and him stealing bands funds to help promote another band that they managed. . Once the band found out by going through the accounting etc.. they confronted him on it, and he threatened again. And Ryche's sales had been dropping like crazy under Tate and his wife's control. Tate also refused to sing the classics, he had said in interviews he hated the old catalog songs and hated metal. And wanted to change directions. And Tate sold the rights to Operation Mindcrime for an animated movie, once the band found out, they took it their lawyers and got it retracted. The reason they retracted it was because first it's the bands property not Tates and the sale of the rights was going to go directly to Tate, so only Tate would get the money for it Then finally the band had enough and they voted to fire Tates wife as manager. Tate freaked, assaulted them as we all know.. And then they had to fire Tate. So, all this bad stuff is due to Tate. And not the band.
Makes complete sense. A lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes in bands doesn't reach the public. In this case many of the goings-on did, so it's all pretty well laid out about what happened.
The last straw was Geoff Tate assaulting Scott Rockenfield and Michael Wilton backstage, and spitting in Rockenfield's face. Rockenfield, Wilton and bassist Eddie Jackson hoped to reconcile with Tate, but he issued an ultimatium: that they reinstate his wife and stepdaughter and formally apologise to them in Tate's presence, or resign from Queensrÿche. They took option three, and immediately decided to fire him.
Tate should be glad he wasn't with/ didn't try to screw with Deep Purple, their original lead singer Rod Evans toured under the Deep Purple name. As a reward to Rod Evans, they took away his royalties so now he gets NOTHING!
Agree with most if not all. But Geoff's band has many, many videos on UA-cam of their live shows after you recorded this in 2017, and he was again in great form, and performing all of the classic Queensryche songs. I would have to call it something of a Renaissance. His solo bands and albums were not good for many years. But these last few years before Covid his band and performances were very good.
Thank you so much for all that information, Pete. I knew certain bits and pieces of what had been going on with the band for a long time, but - like many fans - I checked out fairly early (Actually, pretty much after *Empire.)* I did manage to listen to some of their newer stuff in the 2000s, and liked some of it. (For the record, I really loved "If I Were King" from the 2009 *American Soldier* album.) I eventually saw them in 2011 with Tesla opening for them, and yeah Geoff had his daughter singing background vocals, along with other singers and an orchestra type deal behind them, and so I know what you mean about the cabaret style stuff. Honestly, I had no idea of any problems until two years later in 2011 when they kicked them out and everything. At first, I was like WTF, but then I started reading about things, and the more I read, the more I realized that Geoff was probably the one at fault. However, I've heard nothing in recent years from either sides, and so that information about how their respective releases compare to each other is definitely helpful. I will check each of them out sometime and compare for myself. Great video as always, Pete!! 🤟
Well said! Things change, and so do we. Are we going to challenge ourselves like we're living in a van, or are we going live in a fantasy of what we once were...?
I saw Geoff here at the Gothic 10/1/2021 --- I'm quite amazed at Geoff's vocal range. He sounded great. However, I absolutely lost my (operation:) mind (crime) seeing Queensryche with Todd before lockdown (2/7/2020). With the Geoff Tate show, it was ... just good work. Oddly, at 41 I was one of the youngest people at the Geoff Tate show. At the Queensryche show, I think I was about right.
I had the original 206 Records release of the Queensryche EP I bought in May 1983. I even went to Bellevue, WA to and checked out the 206 Record Store as well. I seen two headline shows at the Gorge Amphitheater in George, Wa in 1996 and 1997. Seen them open for Judas Priest in 2005 in Uncasville, CT. When Chris Degarmo left, that was when QR lost its best writer. He was QR. I do not see that band getting back together ever again.
Not sure Pete has this right. Geoff over the years has sung the old 'Ryche classics via his solo venture. I saw him play just last week. He performed the entire Rage for Order & Empire set. And it was bloody brilliant! So I can't believe the theory that years ago Geoff couldn't sing the old classics or didn't want to. As he has actively sung, performed and celebrated these records for the last 6-7 years.
@@jonclarkson5911 no it was called Rising West. The fans didn't want it.. They wanted them to keep the Ryche name and Tri-Tyche etc. So that's what they did.
It's not a cover band when the true elements of the band still exist which is Michael Wilton for the most part if he ever left the game then they truly are over but it is him and him alone that retains the Queensryche sound that they still have today ! It's there clear as day if you have an ear for it musically I'm sure you don't have a problem with Geoff Tate slugging around destroying Queensryche material on a nightly basis because he can't sing anymore and the musicians that he plays with our lousy and don't have any passion for the material
I still enjoy Mincrime II, but very little else from the Tate era post Promise Land. In fact, I can only think of two songs, "Sign of the Times" and one he did on an Avantasia album, really good song!
I didn't like any of the albums after empire, up until dedicated to chaos. That got me back into them and then they broke up after that. I was excited to see more stuff.
So you are a fan of the mostly Geoff Tate dedicated to chaos atrocity ..probably the worst Queensryche album ever! There's good stuff on most of their albums but just nothing that sticks over all It's clearly obvious by their new material that Geoff Tate was a good part of the reason they went downhill in his music style changing and them going along with it until they had a boot him out
I saw Geoff last year live playing all of Rage for order and aside from the damn electronic drums it kicked ass. He sounded really good. And caught QR opening for Priest they were really solid. I am happy for them ❤
Great Video!!! Queensryche was completely reborn with Todd LaTorre. The 2013 S/T was an album that made all us fans remember why we loved this band. I personally wasn't a huge fan of Condition Human, but it was still Queensryche and better than anything they had put out past Promised land. New album The Verdict is fantastic! Classic Ryche and LaTorre continues to find his own voice and good heavens the man can drum too! Tate had no peers in the early days of the band, but those days are long gone. I'm just glad the band is releasing quality material that they seem to enjoy making again.
I always thought that after “Here in the Now Frontier” they broke up…I didn’t know they were still putting out albums. W/out DeGarmo and Tate, however, there is no QR. Thus I stopped buying albums .
Apart from 2003's Tribe, which had the brief shining moment return of Chris DeGarmo, Queensryche were in the cellar from for the best part of 14 or 15 years before Geoff Tate was told to take a hike. I swear it would have been better if they fired Tate after Hear In The Now Frontier and found a replacement for him and DeGarmo.
Sea of Tranquility , you said here in 2017 you're waiting for the next Queensryche album. Now it's 3/1/19 and The Verdict is here. Do you agree with early popular opinion that it's the best of the 3 albums with Todd? I definitely do.
I really like The Verdict, but I have to say that it took me much longer to get in to it than the previous two. It's still not a CD I listen to often. But I still listen to the self titled CD and Condition Human all the time. But most people do seem to think that The Verdict is the best CD with Todd. I'm glad people love it! I wish nothing but the best for the band and I highly look forward to the next release!
I agree with what a lot of people are saying, but I think most of all, like many bands, the formula of DeGarmo and Tate writing with the contributions of Wilton, Jackson and Rockenfield made what Queensryche is. The new stuff just doesn't resonate with me. I've watched some of Tate's recent tours last year doing old Queensryche albums and he sounded good. I don't like when people complain about singers when they get older. None of us does the work of a 25 year old at 65.
I totally agree with all you said. When Chris DeGarmo left, that was the beginning of the end imo. Not only is he an awesome lead guitarist but his vocals were great! He really quietly held up the band.
QR died back in 1993. What are you talking about? All those albums after sucked dick. Especially the 2000 album. OMG they suck. But Fates Warning albums always kicked major ass. Ray Adler and Jim Matheos. True in the game.
Sounds like an issue that develops as Tate's family got involved in the business of the band, like with Dio, Ozzy etc.... it led to friction. Maybe creative differences with Tate and the band.
Thomas Fleming my thoughts exactly, it became the Geoff and Susan Tate roadshow and its my way or the highway. The rest of the band put up with it for as long as possible and then were like fuck it, this guy has to go. I think Susan was the Yoko Ono of this band for sure, I think she has a lot of influence over Geoff and she wanted to turn it in to a family business and run the whole show. at that point her and Geoff basically saw the rest of the band as hired help. I think she had quite a bit to do with the split of QR in my opinion.
The biggest thing to go wrong with Queensryche was the loss of Neil Germano. But there was also the issues with Scott Rockenfield. Tate’s drama got the most attention and noise, but there was a whole bunch of things involving all the members that broke them.
Hey Pete, have you heard the two albums Geoff Tate did with Sweet Oblivion? I'd like to hear your thoughts about those albums and it would be cool if you did a video on those!
I saw Queensryche in concert back in the 90’s when they were pretty big, huge concert, huge. I’ve been a huge fan since Empire and it broke my heart when they split or rather when he was fired. At first like you said.. I was one of those fans, “there’s no Queensryche without Geoff, I refuse to listen to them with this new guy!” Blah blah blah. Fast forward to the now... I go see Geoff’s new band, had to check them out being the diehard fan that I was...am? 🧐🤨 (to be determined). Far cry from the show I saw in the 90s... this was a small dark venue that was basically a bar and grill with a stage. I thought to myself, so this is what he’s been reduced to.. I didn’t know if I should clap at the end of each song or pay my condolences. I guess it’s come down to them just booking gigs with whoever has open spots at this point. Did Geoff do this to himself? A big part of me says, yeah.. this is all on you buddy.. it’s sad to me because in my eyes and ears, Geoff had the most beautiful and melodic vocals that I have ever heard and was by far one of the most underrated musicians to come on the to scene in many years. and then to be reduced to little shithole venues with crappy servers and watered down tap beer almost put me in tears. And as for Todd.. he definitely put Queensryche on the map again and I say kudos to him for reviving the band and bringing them back to their former glory.
In 2019, the local rock station played a song called Won't Cry Now - I heard it like twice, of course the idiots never said who it was. It sounded like Geoff Tate or Queensryche, but I can't find it anywhere. Anyone hear something like that recently - know the song?
If people people can't accept queensryche without Tate then maybe you should accept that..and anyway it doesn't matter who the singer is their time has passed they are now irrelevant, however mindcrime will be a classic forever which is all that matters
Thank You Pete! I Worship both Rage For Order & Operation Mindcrime, Mindcrime to me is one of the best Albums ever Produced by any band, I saw these guys open for Kiss on their Warning Tour, and even then I thought, you give these guys a few years to figure this out and they are gonna do something, so when Empire came out I bought it right away and put it on my stereo, Disappointed was a understatement after listening to it for the first time, couple of tracks were cool ( Another rainy Night was very cool) but none of the tracks on Empire were Rockers to me, not like on Mindcrime! so I was like " Well, that's it" and as each following release came they got worse, then Chris Degarmo left and the wheels came right off, I mean to me Operation Mindcrime 2 was unlistenable! and I said to everybody I knew Geoff Tate is a Has been, and it's too bad ( I still say a lot of Tate's problem is that he got mixed up with Chris Cornell's Ex Wife, and nothing kills a career or a band then getting mixed up with her, and letting her " Manage" your career, but this new guy Latorre? He is very, very Good!
Thank you! I thought I was alone in the Empire isn't very good camp. After Mindcrime, that album just falls flat. I thought Promised Land was an improvement but then the slide started. Empire still sounds like a sellout, overproduced record.
Pete my friend works at Delta Downs Casino in Louisiana where Geoff Tate's Operation Mindcrime was booked for a Evening With show. Out of the 500 capacity for the venue, only 105 showed up to the show. They could not even give tickets out to try and fill it.
Hi Pete love the show.. was at ur home about 20 years ago. U had every Robert D and Al P movie in ur collection . ( even the crappy ones) thought to myself this is one cool guy would love to pick his brain. Now we all get the chance .
Great video, maybe Geoff is taking the hint now as he performed the entire Operation Mindcrime recently. Only thing is that he is down tuning the songs and to me it doesn't sound right, but vocally he is handling those songs from the footage I've seen!
One of the many things I like and respect about Pete, is that he is not a "Completest". By that I mean, he doesn't just talk about Legacy artists he loves as if they "can do no wrong". He is honest and backs up his opinions in a very frank and reasonable way, without coming across immature and Snarky like most people on UA-cam who do these types of Posts. As you can easily infer from my UA-cam name, I'm a huge Bruce Springsteen fan, but am honest enough to say, IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, he hasn't written a truly excellent Record up to his very high standards since the Tunnel of Love record. As always, "your Mileage may vary..." Peace ♫
I agree !! I think after Promised Land it was obvious that the 2 sides were not working well together anymore. The new stuff with Todd is great and I think The Verdict is their best album with Todd !!
You should read the transcripts/statements from their court trial, that was real eye-opener, many things finally made sense after reading that. I found them on the web many years ago, very interesting read for the real fans.
I’m with you on the new version of Queensryche. Todd has been the shot in the arm that the band needed. Now with 2 more albums out since you did this vid the band has continued soaring.
Casual fan....to me what shocked me more than anything about the band was that cabaret tour they did. I just got the sense that DeGarmo left and Tate just wasn't into the music. The funny thing is I think the split was the best thing to happen to both parties....both sides seem energized.
I have to apologize for my negative comments awhile back Pete. But Queensryche is a top 5 band for me. I'll be looking for more videos on the topic. Loved them since Mindcrime first came out, and same as you, kept on following and getting more let down with every new release. I was even following the one close to official fan forum, very closely, and watching all the events unfold. At one time, Tate was my 2nd favorite vocalist, only to Dickinson, but I was so upset with him for a couple years, that I couldn't even listen to Mindcrime. I had to get over it! And eventually did. There's no way I could not listen to Mindcrime, it's a desert island album for sure! Pretty much forgotten about Tate now, and follow the new Queensryche with Todd. The Verdict is the best one yet! But now it seems Scott R is gone now too. Todd played drums on the new album.
I thought this was actually gonna be something new and insightful but it turned out to be popular opinion making me think why before making it? The masses believe as you do so why are you defending the new lineup of Queensryche. They don't need it. Here's the thing. Music is subjective. Always has been. What sounds great to some will sound god awful to others and vice-versa. Doesn't mean either is bad. Music is music. I discovered Queensryche with Promised Land. Then I found The Warning (this is while Tribe was their current release). I then got hold of Tribe and eventually got all the other albums but it was Promised Land that got me hooked and got me into progessive music in general. I was already a metal fan at this point having been introduced with bands like Black Sabbath and Iron Maiden. I liked every Queensryche studio release with my bottom rated being Q2K and Dedicated To Chaos below that. Wasn't big on Take Cover but I'm focusing on original material here. Since the controversial split I have followed both camps. I tried to get into the new Queensryche lineup but the first self titled effort had production issues and was too tinny and loud. Beyond that while the material is not bad by any stretch I find it to be nothing more than generic metal. There's not really anything there that I can say "that's Queensryche". It could be almost any decent metal band. Geoff's stuff however, (other than perhaps Kings and Thieves which I can agree wasn't great) has kept that unique quality to it. For better or worse you know it's Geoff. I also don't find the stuff boring. While it's not as great as Queensryche at their best (Rage through Promised Land) it's still interesting and entertaining material to me. What also needs to be considered is Todd is much younger than Geoff. He's currently around the same age as Geoff was during the Live Evolution era. Geoff was still able to perform the classics himself at that point. Did they sound studio perfect? Of course not, but they still sounded good vocally.
It's not based on popular opinion J, just mine. I hear plenty of debate towards both sides- those who tired of Tate years ago and have embraced the new line-up of the band to those that think Tate is a god and Queensryche without him are worthless. And, many people I've talked to who make up the latter, don't even bother to listen to any of Tate's new music, but form this opinion based on the EP to Promised Land. I've been a fan of both the band and Tate since the early '80s, but I have to say, they needed to go their separate ways. There's a lot of weak albums there after Promised Land. The two releases with Todd, to me, carry the spirit of the classic era of the band. Geoff's material sounds tired and listless...to my ears anyway, and the songs are just not memorable. Do I wish that wasn't the case? Certainly. But it's what my ears hear at this point. If you feel the opposite, and there's many people who do, that's cool of course! This 'rant' was just meant to give my take on the situation, cause I hear lot of different opinions.
Thanks for clearing this up then. See, as someone who still supported Geoff's career (note I say, career. Personality doesn't even come into it.) I've encountered much of the opposite to you. An onslaught of nothing but hate, with people going out of their way to comment on Geoff's videos just to hate on them so it has made me rather guarded. If this is your honest opinion however then I respect that. I did notice how you seemed to avoid bringing Geoff's personality into it or all this court related crap which I truly appreciate. Only the music matters. I'm sorry the new stuff didn't do it for you man. I really am.
I gave new queensryche a chance with their self titled album, but I only like one song on the album. I will say though, that's one song more than I liked on Geoff tates first album after the break up. I haven't listened to anything from either of them since then though.
You definitely need to check out The Verdict then, I thought the self titled album wasn't very good too, but listen to Light-Years, Inside Out, Inner Unrest, Bent, or Portrait
DeGarmo was the most important piece of Queensrÿche! Chris’s writing & orchestrating skills along with his vocals could not be replaced by anyone!
I would say Degarmo/Tate were the key pieces of the band. When Chris left the sound became very convoluted. Tate’s voice though was just as important
@@keithcullison9152 I agree 100%, Tate was irreplaceable as well!
Chris Degarmo formed Queesryche - after writing a song called Queen of the Ryche
@@keithcullison9152love Queensryche from its inception from the Ep thru promised land Michael was a major contributor as well check the erring credits… love Chris but he bailed on his high school friends and I’m. It talking about Geoff he was asked to join the band so they record the ep….at this time he was still with Myth
Queensryche was degarmo and tate. Also, rockenfield was a great drummer
Chris DeGarmo was the creative genius behind Queensryche. When he decided to pack it in then the band no longer had any focus or vision for the band. It would be like Rainbow trying to carry on without Richie Blackmore or Iron Maiden without Steve Harris.
yeah but Bruce and Smith running Maiden would be halfway decent, which is kind of LaTorre Queensryche equivalent
My thoughts exactly. I was a huge fan in the '80s and early '90s. (I thought Rage for Order was one of their best) I suspect the departure of guitarist Chris DeGarmo foretold the downward spiral
DeGarmo leaving the band was a deep wound that never really healed. The subsequent guitarists have been good players but lacked Chris's writing skills and concepts.
There were even violent altercations between Geoff and the other lads that made things very tense. I doubt the classic lineup will ever exist again.
Daniel Charbonneau , Very well put. I agree with you 100%.
You know Chris was the main songwriter and even sang lead on the Alternative/Grunge sounding Hear In The Now Frontier album, right? Then he quit the group.
DeGarmo started to suck too. He lost it.
@jimmysmokes Surprisingly you're correct. I think. They changed the name of the band too with Latorre when Tate got fired. They should've kept that name. Mindcrime 2 sucked badly BTW.
@jimmysmokes Yes bro. Are you a Fates Warning fan too. Check them out if not.
Regardless of what happened later, “Mindcrime” is one of the best rock albums I have ever heard.
DeGarmo leaving had a much bigger impact than Tate getting the boot. Neither version of the band currently is particularly satisfying.
Geoff and Chris. That was Queensryche for me
I agree with you. Rage for Order was the first time I knew QR. I love the music style and the vocal of Geoff Tate. Now... it's just a history to me. I don't like that new QR at all, it doesn't fit my taste.
Yup!
Right. I loved the Bark at the Moon record and Jake E Lee as a Guitarist, but Ozzy is nothing without Randy Rhoads. It's not even close.
And Scott
Here's something different for you. Geoff and I went to HS together (Wilson '77' in Tacoma). We were friends and after HS Geoff and Bob talked me into moving in and rented house. I was in my own apt, and they knew I made decent $ for the time. I painted houses and he and Bob worked at a sandwich shop. I covered his rent a time or two (for both of them) and within 6 months Geoff moved back home. Shortly after that I meet a girl and moved into my own place. Jump forward to mid 1979 I was moving to Houston (dad was there) and Geoff was then in an apt with a girl (we all knew from HS) Sandy. I stopped by and gave them a crappy couch on my way out of town. Geoff wasn't home. I have heard Geoff sing a time or two during that time and thought to myself that he should do that. When he opened his mouth, you stopped to listen. The last time I saw him I was 20.
Here's the crazy part. In 83 I joined the Marine's. I never knew he was in a band until I went to visit family in 87. Thou I heard the songs, I just didn't know it was him! I wonder if he'll pay me back for the rent now? Also my dog that he let out of the basement, never to be seen again...
Cool story
Maybe your dog at the time joined a band of his/her own! Great story, love it!👍😎🎶
Knowing Geoff, no, he will not pay you back. He’s as obnoxious & ungrateful as anyone I’ve ever known.
Think about how bad it had to be for QR to boot the most recognizable & marketable member of the band.
He’s gotten a bit humbled lately & he’s been working to get his vocal skills back so a reunion at some point is possible.
Good on you though for helping them out & giving them a couch. 🍺
Just saw Geoff do O:M. Great gig, and Geoff still has it goin' on
No Tate or DeGarmo , no Queensryche. Promised Land, last good album.
FTR Their last three albums are far better than Promised land.
Empire was the last really good album. Promised Land marked the beginning of the end!
@@edcollins9377 I always felt Empire was their last great album and Promised Land was their last good album. Everything after that was mostly shit in my opinion. Some decent songs here and there but nothing great at all.
@@KISSFAN1970 I totally agree. Actually, you summed up my thoughts better than I did!!! Thanks for the comment!
@@edcollins9377 lol Glad I could help!
"Empire" is fantastic; the perfect sucessor to "OP MC". great record -- and underrated.
AGREED !! Great Production too !
It sold 3 million copies, how is that 'underrated'?
FreedomIsSlavery the so-called “critic” railed against it, regardless of public sentiment.
Played those albums on repeat in 91 and 92. Great albums
I was a Bay Area Thrash Metal drummer at the time (we could be music "snobs") and I had it on heavy rotation in my stereo. I heard Geoff Tate (in a recent interview) say it was a "paint by numbers album", but I never gave that angle a thought back in the day, I just thought the songs were great and the album was solid
Chris DeGarmo. When he quit, the magic was gone. I've given every line-up and variation a chance-- and they just don't have it without him. So, Tate's in the band, Tate's not in the band... I don't care. I still listen to the old stuff from the original line-up, but every time I've listened to anything claiming to be 'Queensryche' since... I've regretted wasting the minutes listening to it. I find what Chris is doing now with his daughter far more interesting than anything Tate or Wilton/Rockenfield/Jackson LaTorre are doing. One can also note, that most of the great classic Queensryche tunes... were written or cowritten by Chris DeGarmo, certainly all of my favorite classic QR tunes were, and the very few really good tunes that were credited 'Wilton/Tate'-- DeGarmo was there to help arrange and record them, and IMO his influence on them can still be felt.
But, that's my opinion and reflects the music I enjoy-- if any of these post-DeGarmo line-ups make music you enjoy, then continue to enjoy it... there's room for different tastes in music in the world. BTW-- I am an American Soldier (US Army retired now), and I really wanted to like the 'American Soldier' album-- great concept, appreciate the respect shown to our military, but unfortunately IMO all the actual songs on the album were boring as f***.
Bullshit. QR sucked after Empire. They were a big turn down to all of us.. With at gay song I am I. ?? I hung them up. I'd rather listen to Howdy Doody songs.
I didn't waste money on that garbage. Thank God.
The Warning is an awesome album with a shitload of songwriting credits from Michael Wilton.
100% man..once Chris left it was over. It seems heavy metal bands inevitably descend into Spinal Tap territory for real when they don't know when to hang it up.
The magic was gone before Chris DeGarmo left though. Let's not forget that "Hear In The Now Frontier" exists and though there were a few good songs, as a whole it was a shit album. Queensryche finally got good again once Geoff Tate got the boot and Todd was brought it and the guys in the band were allowed to write the music again as opposed to bringing in outside writers to steer the band to Tate's tastes and vision alone.
Chris left and Geoff lost his voice. Geoff's direction in music was horrid in my opinion. BUT the previous Queensryche "Legacy" was the most incredible band I ever experienced. I really liked the way they didn't sound like the other bands that were in the system at the time. I also love the melody and harmony that the "Tate/Degarmo collaboration left behind for us. Rage for order was the first one I heard and still the best to me. I did love Operation mindcrime as well and Empire was pretty good but not exceptional. After that there were a few songs here and there but a few years later there was nothing left. The new Queensryche is not queensryche and doesn't hold my attention although Todd Latore is a fantastic singer. You just had to be there you can't remake history \m/ \m/
I think your comment is common sense and sums up the situation nicely,I agree totally.
You nailed it. I saw an interview with Geoff Tate where he talks about Cris DeGarmo leaving. Geoff said Chris felt the band was done and Geoff didn't. Chris was right. The soul of the original band was done and they all needed to realize it. This guy even admitted it on his rant, he just focussed on Geoff in the late 90s and on sucking. Nope, it's not just Geoof, it's the lack of Chris, Geoff and Scott. It's a broken marriage. The current band is a great band but it's not Queensryche. No different than Alter Bridge is to Creed or Audioslave is to Rage against the machine.The difference between the current Queensryche and those two is those two wisely realized this and changed their names with the new line up.
I used to think Tate was God as a kid (this story gets better keep reading). As a kid the second I heard Queen of the Rÿche I knew what I wanted to do with my life. Practiced my ass off, took lessons, got good. I was the dude in high school people would ask to do metal screams “you gotta hear this guy sing.” My buddy was the dude who’d go into Guitar Center and shred arpeggio sweeps with a crowd around him. By this point we were 16. A year later we met Queensrÿche and asked them how they wrote such amazing music. Geoff said “practice” Chris said “smoke lots of weed.” We felt like we were meeting GODS. Fast forward a year and my other buddy tells me his older brother’s friend’s band is looking for a singer. Says their name is Dream Theater and he has John’s number. I call John, his mom answers. I chat with John and he asks if I have a demo. I didn’t so I offered to sing over the phone (lol totally green move). He declines and asks me to simply send a demo. Which I did. They already hired the new guy, but he was nice. Fast forward a few decades. My other buddy tells me he has a gig working on a new album for... Queensrÿche. I’m blown back. He did creative work on MC II. Tells me it was his worst experience as musician, a total disaster and a let down hanging with Geoff who was a dick. When I heard the album I hated it.
Queensrÿche died when Chris left. He was the brain behind the music, Geoff was the brain behind the melodies. No interest in the new Queensrÿche. But the old stuff, up until Empire (too commercial for me), will always be classic albums for me and my bros.
Side note: I can no longer hit those high notes and don’t care to. I stopped singing like that in the early 90s and moved on to an AIC sound. So much training makes it so that I can still sing fairly well today, but nowadays I sound more like Chris Cornell before he passed. RIP. 🤘🏽
Well done Pete...I have to agree with ya man
If you ever served in the military, you will relate and love American Soldier. If I Were King puts me in tears every time.
For me, once Chris left the song writing went to shit. He was Queensryche. He did the majority of the compositions. He and Geoff together were great. DeGarmo's backing vocals really helped Geoff vocally. I had got into Queensryche in 83. My little brother had the Queensryche cassette and I loved it. The Warning was awesome. Really I love everything until Hear in the now Frontier. That's when I dropped off as a fan. The original band members needed the Queensryche name. Todd actually is sounding better and better. I bought Condition Human and showed support by seeing tbem live in December 2016. Honestly, I feel really bad for Geoff, I've tried to listen to him and I cringe. I have all the respect in the world for Geoff. For all of the great music that Queensryche played with Geoff and Chris. I can't wait for the new Queensryche album to come out. It won't be until 2018. The new Queensryche is very good. I love the harder edge the band is bringing. I will definitely get Queensryches next album and go see them when they come back to Pittsburgh. RYCHE N ROLL FOREVER!
DeGarmo said in an interview with American Songwriter back in 1991 that he and Michael Wilton were the main writers of the band.
Not a chance "the verdict" is a sick album
Great opinion and rant. I personally have tried to get into the new Queensryche albums but I just can't. The new singer does have his own style but he shines more when he sounds like the old singer. The magic from the past is gone. It reminds me when Rob left Judas Priest. New singer was awesome but it just wasn't Priest anymore. I think I saw Fight Everytime they came into Los Angeles but never went to another Priest show until Rob joined the band again. Didn't much like their concept albums though. Singers and band members come and go and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I love the fact that when Rage Against the Machine broke up they didn't just get another singer that could rap. They reinvented themselves and Audioslave quickly became one of my favorite bands. On a quick note I just want to mention that seeing the resurrection of certain bands from the 80's is truly amazing. Sacred Reich and Kung Diamond being two of them. Sometimes just taking a break for whatever reason is the best course.
airholeahole1 lol thanks for the advice junior. Being a “lil” older, we’re always lookin for young , wisdom filled ahole’s such as yourself to set us straight. At least we have real music to look back to.
these thoughts echo my own. Nothing that either band with the name "queensryche" has released without degarmo has been worthy of their glory years.
I thought Halford was great in the day, then I heard Ripper Owens. Even my 83 year old mother was impressed with his voice and she was not a rocker. This Qyeensryche story answered a lot of questions for me as to what happened to them. Thanks again Pete.
MASSIVE Queensryche fan. I've seen them live and I've also seen Geoff solo live. I agree with a lot of what you said, but I do believe that Promised Land (1994) was an unbelievable album. It was deep, dark and introspective and was the last time Geoff Tate had full control over his vocals. A part of their OLD sound had a lot to do with Chris Degarmo, even though he was on Hear in the Now Frontier, which was a subpar and boring grunge album. I felt that Tribe had some of the old Queensryche feel to it, due in part to Degarmo writing a few of the songs. American Soldier was a good album (saw them on that tour). You forgot to mention Queensryche's last album (Dedicated to Chaos) before Geoff was kicked out, as as Frequency Unknown.
As for Geoff's vocals, well, the truth of the matter is, they started to first show signs of decay way back in 1988 at the start of the Operation Mindcrime tour, whereby he could no longer hit the highs he had in songs like Take Hold of the Flame and Queen of the Reich, compared to how he had last sung them in early 1987 at the end of the Rage For Order tour. The reason his range had diminished and would continually do so until he had very little range left was due to his chainsmoking. He picked up the bad habit while they were recording Operation Mindcrime and he would continue to smoke until the Hear in the Now Frontier tour, of which they had to cancel because of Geoff's throat issues, when in reality it was because he couldn't sing anymore due to chainsmoking. He briefly quit smoking and the result was improved vocals on Q2K and the following tour. Unfortunately he would start smoking again, but briefly quit in 2005, resulting in a crazy 2005 summer tour where he sounded amazing again. He started smoking again following the released of OMII and his vocals sounded bad as a result. Imo, 2009 was the LAST year Geoff sounded decent live. Since 2010 it's been painful to listen to. I saw him live last year in a small club and his singing voice (power, range, control) is a pale shadow of what it was only a decade ago, let alone how it sounded up until the mid 90's or the late the 80's. He could have and should have taken care of his voice and not destroyed it like Ian Gillan and Rob Halford did, by picking up smoking, which is the worst thing a singer who has a high octave range can do. I'm also not a fan of Todd. His vocals are too harsh and screechy when he tries to use his falsetto. Geoff had an insane natural ability to shatter glass at the drop of a dime, where as Scott has to force it and it doesn't sound clean like Geoff's vocals once did. Also Queensryche's last 2 albums with Scott sound a little too generic for me. I also have not been impressed by Geoff's solo albums either, although his first solo album from 2002 was incredible with rich, textured and gorgeous vocals.
Your taste is up your ass.
Dan Maler Well said, brother!
Dan, I agree with a lot of what you said, but you mentioned Scott towards the end when I think you meant Todd. LOL Nice to see another Queensryche post.
Who is this Scott you speak of?
You hit the nail on the head I’ve been listening to queensryche on UA-cam mtv unplugged from 1992 amazing how good they were I saw them in the early 90s at Irvine meadows one of the best shows ever, I wish they all could get together and do one more great show with all of original band.
Mr. Pardo, you said all that needs said on this. Nailed it. No further comment necessary.
GREAT video and rant! I've felt exactly this way for years. Thanks!
Playing heavier material isn't enough for me which is why the newer stuff doesn't interest me. Chris and Geoff when they were clicking was the version I loved.
I loved the Hear In The Now Frontier album, way more than Promised Land. Can you imagine what it would've sounded like if it had Empire's production!
there is a reason for them packing the house it's called Geoff Tate and Chris
You are right - "Condition Human" sounds like the natural continuation after "Empire". Listening to it while I write this post. Great channel, thanks!
Saw them open for Kiss on their " Warning" Album Tour, LOVE Operation Mindcrime ( One of the best Rock Records EVER in my book) Geoff tate's Problems started when he Married Chris Cornell's Ex Wife and made her his manager ( Because she only ruined Chris Cornell's career before hand) Then Geoff started thinking he WAS the Band, BUT Queensryche started their Epic slide when Chris DeGarmo left the band!
tim wirasnik - how did I never know that about Chris’s ex. Interest. Thanks for sharing.
Yeah, anyone who's watched Spinal Tap knows that one shouldn't make a band member's wife/girlfriend the manager. Happened to Sepultura too.
@@IanM1984 Soundgarden as well, but i think that was the same chick as The Ryche
Hey Pete, good video! You really are spot on with this assessment.
I, like you grew up up loving the early albums & they were my favorite band for many years.
Fast forward to me leaving the military near Seattle & I decided to stay up there.
Soon after (1988) I became friends with some musicians up there and quickly landed right in the middle of what would become “the Seattle scene.”
I dug all of it, went to thousands of shows, hung with those cats at parties and shows, but I was still a metal head. I gravitated to bands like Sactuary (and later Nevermore) Metal Church, Forced Entry, Bitter End, etc…
But the entire time I was only one step removed from the guys in Queensryche.
So all along, I was hearing each aspect of the whole story as it was playing out.
Obviously nobody in the band was 100% innocent, but Geoff was definitely the big problem in the band.
There’s a lot that’s gone unsaid about why Chris originally left & it had more to do with Geoff trying to dominate artistic control & Chris was not having that.
People who defend Tate often dismiss DeGarmo leaving as “he was done playing music” but if they’d do some homework, he never stopped being involved in music.
At one point he was recording and touring with Jerry Cantrell from Alice In Chains.
Chris just wasn’t trying to join any more big bands with tight schedules, big pressure & big headaches.
I know one of the gals that the band hired to do “the burlesque tour” and even she said “this is all Geoff’s idea and nobody but Geoff thinks it’s a good idea.”
And day after day various people on the tour would be griping to people in Seattle that “it’s a complete disaster” & “Geoff has lost his damn mind.”
That tour was pretty much the last straw.
2 other things that were going on. One was that Geoff was drinking a whooooole lot of booze during that time and not only did it make him more obnoxious & controlling, but it also limited his vocal range significantly, which is why they had to start dropping classic songs from the set.
And 2, Geoff was extremely insecure & jealous of the bands in the “Seattle scene.”
Everyone knew everyone & 99% of it was a love fest, so it wasn’t like anyone was dissing him or shunning QR.
Everyone from the scene loved QR and owed them a huge debt of gratitude for paving the path forward for them, and everyone was open about that love & respect for them, whether it was random guys drinking at a bar or well known musicians talking to MTV.
But Geoff really, really resented guys like Chris Cornell & Layne Staley being more relevant than he was.
The rest of the band wasn’t reclusive, they were out supporting local bands & earning an even higher level of respect from “the scene.”
The band was laser focused on maintaining their artistic vision and delivering music from where their hearts are at (metal) but Geoff didn’t want that at all. He wanted 1987 back again, where all eyes were on him & he & the band were selling out arenas.
He became way too intoxicated by the fame he had previously achieved and it caused him to shift gears & chase something that wasn’t obtainable for an 80’s metal band.
When the spitting incident happened, that was just the final straw in the final straw.
In Geoff’s defense. He’s found humility at this point & has focused on getting his range back, so I’d never rule out a reunion amongst all parties (including Chris)
Anyway, just wanted to let you know that you’re spot on on this & I wanted to add a few details.
Excellent analysis and presentation Pete. You should do a video about the Ratt situation and all of the feuding. That woulbe very interesting!
Love Queensryche (I'm in Seattle, they're local boys...even though they're actually from Bellevue ;) Had the good fortune of meeting Geoff Tate when I was a teenager working at a local pizza place and he came in with his family. So cool! Super nice guy and obviously a fantastic singer. Will always remember that. I feel badly about what happened with Queensryche, but tend to mostly agree with your take on it.
Colin Sherritt Your run in with Tate is very interesting. I’ve always heard what a douche bag he is. Maybe fame and success changed him.
You know Bellevue is a suburb of Seattle.
I'm also from Seattle, and I've heard a much different account of Tate, lol. A former co-worker said she was at a party that he showed up to, with a drop dead gorgeous girl. He allegedly told this girl that while they're in there, she doesn't know him, and she will not speak to him.
Hearsay of course, and you actually met him, so who knows.
That was spot on (for me) That was very HONEST and extremely accurate.
I didn’t think so initially, but a large part was Chris DeGarmo leaving. He and Tate wrote most of their big songs. Tate went into a grunge direction once DeGarmo left and probably became the problem later on. Even though he was great during the 80s.
The new Queensryche is good (with LaTorre), but not hitting the home runs when it comes to intelligent ballads or hooks that resonate with people.
Saw them 3x as an opening act in the 80's. Mind u they opened for the likes of Metallica, Def Leppard. They def held their own!
I've seen Queensryche many times. The American Soldier tour was awesome and the band sounded great as they featured songs from Rage for Order, Empire and OMC. They brought someone on stage who gave us a great version of Sabbath's Neon Knights. The crowd definitely went wild. But unfortunately the following year gave us their cabaret show which left us wondering WTF is this? Needless to say we walked out in the middle of the show.
Gay album that sucked.
Whenever bands move away from their natural sound it can lead to problems. I call it the Diamond Head effect. I liked Operation Mindcrime and Empire but what is he 60? He can’t expect to hit the same notes as when he was in his 20’s. I listened to an interview with Chris Cornell Rip and he said some of the keys had to be reworked because late 40’s he was singing an octave lower. This is not uncommon Kate Bush said the same before she did that one off tour. People complained when she did not play Wuthering Heights but she is also around 60 so hardly surprising.
Degarmo’s writing was the key. It’s now 2021 and I think the reversed has happened. Todd’s voice seems to be struggling ( saw them open up for the Scorpions) and recently saw Geoff and his voice sounds great!!! He is still singing “Take Hold Of The Flame” !!!!! I did not like Geoff’s solo albums, that being said, i didn’t like the albums with Todd either. I would love to se all the guys get together with DeGamo and see if they got 1 more great album in them. Just one on my bucket list!!!
People need to realize that Tate is the reason Ryche had so many issues over the years. According to filed court documents. After Empire Tate took more control of the band holding everything hostage if the band didn't give in to his demands. He took full control of the songs and writing and direction. He then hired his wife to be their manager without the rest of the band voting on it as they had done in the past. And again, threatening to leave if they didn't go along with it. Then add in Tates temper and Axl-itis, Degarmo had enough and chose to leave. Tate then took absolute control of the musical direction and writing. Then bringing in song writers Tate wanted and he brought in Kelly Gray. Again without discussion w/ the band for a vote. Wilton had to help teach Gray a lot of the parts. Then Tate fired Gray due to Grays drug problems. Then the band talked Degarmo coming back for Tribe and Tate chased him off again due to not agreeing on writing etc. Tate had absolute control, not really welcoming Degarmo back etc. Then they brought in Stone which Wilton had to teach parts to him as well. Then add in Tate's tempers and assaults on band members, and let's not forget his wife and him stealing bands funds to help promote another band that they managed. . Once the band found out by going through the accounting etc.. they confronted him on it, and he threatened again. And Ryche's sales had been dropping like crazy under Tate and his wife's control. Tate also refused to sing the classics, he had said in interviews he hated the old catalog songs and hated metal. And wanted to change directions. And Tate sold the rights to Operation Mindcrime for an animated movie, once the band found out, they took it their lawyers and got it retracted. The reason they retracted it was because first it's the bands property not Tates and the sale of the rights was going to go directly to Tate, so only Tate would get the money for it Then finally the band had enough and they voted to fire Tates wife as manager. Tate freaked, assaulted them as we all know.. And then they had to fire Tate. So, all this bad stuff is due to Tate. And not the band.
He basically tried to extort them
Makes complete sense. A lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes in bands doesn't reach the public. In this case many of the goings-on did, so it's all pretty well laid out about what happened.
The last straw was Geoff Tate assaulting Scott Rockenfield and Michael Wilton backstage, and spitting in Rockenfield's face.
Rockenfield, Wilton and bassist Eddie Jackson hoped to reconcile with Tate, but he issued an ultimatium: that they reinstate his wife and stepdaughter and formally apologise to them in Tate's presence, or resign from Queensrÿche.
They took option three, and immediately decided to fire him.
Tate should be glad he wasn't with/ didn't try to screw with Deep Purple, their original lead singer Rod Evans toured under the Deep Purple name. As a reward to Rod Evans, they took away his royalties so now he gets NOTHING!
Agree with most if not all. But Geoff's band has many, many videos on UA-cam of their live shows after you recorded this in 2017, and he was again in great form, and performing all of the classic Queensryche songs. I would have to call it something of a Renaissance. His solo bands and albums were not good for many years. But these last few years before Covid his band and performances were very good.
Live performances are one thing...the albums all are boring and lifeless. Hence why he continues to mostly just play old Queensryche material.
Thank you so much for all that information, Pete. I knew certain bits and pieces of what had been going on with the band for a long time, but - like many fans - I checked out fairly early (Actually, pretty much after *Empire.)*
I did manage to listen to some of their newer stuff in the 2000s, and liked some of it. (For the record, I really loved "If I Were King" from the 2009 *American Soldier* album.) I eventually saw them in 2011 with Tesla opening for them, and yeah Geoff had his daughter singing background vocals, along with other singers and an orchestra type deal behind them, and so I know what you mean about the cabaret style stuff.
Honestly, I had no idea of any problems until two years later in 2011 when they kicked them out and everything. At first, I was like WTF, but then I started reading about things, and the more I read, the more I realized that Geoff was probably the one at fault. However, I've heard nothing in recent years from either sides, and so that information about how their respective releases compare to each other is definitely helpful. I will check each of them out sometime and compare for myself. Great video as always, Pete!! 🤟
Well said! Things change, and so do we. Are we going to challenge ourselves like we're living in a van, or are we going live in a fantasy of what we once were...?
I saw Geoff here at the Gothic 10/1/2021 --- I'm quite amazed at Geoff's vocal range. He sounded great. However, I absolutely lost my (operation:) mind (crime) seeing Queensryche with Todd before lockdown (2/7/2020). With the Geoff Tate show, it was ... just good work.
Oddly, at 41 I was one of the youngest people at the Geoff Tate show. At the Queensryche show, I think I was about right.
I had the original 206 Records release of the Queensryche EP I bought in May 1983. I even went to Bellevue, WA to and checked out the 206 Record Store as well. I seen two headline shows at the Gorge Amphitheater in George, Wa in 1996 and 1997. Seen them open for Judas Priest in 2005 in Uncasville, CT. When Chris Degarmo left, that was when QR lost its best writer. He was QR. I do not see that band getting back together ever again.
Not sure Pete has this right. Geoff over the years has sung the old 'Ryche classics via his solo venture. I saw him play just last week. He performed the entire Rage for Order & Empire set. And it was bloody brilliant! So I can't believe the theory that years ago Geoff couldn't sing the old classics or didn't want to. As he has actively sung, performed and celebrated these records for the last 6-7 years.
Queensryche is a cover band. They should have created a new band and stood on their own music.
They tried. It was called Northwest.
@@jonclarkson5911 no it was called Rising West. The fans didn't want it.. They wanted them to keep the Ryche name and Tri-Tyche etc. So that's what they did.
It's not a cover band when the true elements of the band still exist which is Michael Wilton for the most part if he ever left the game then they truly are over but it is him and him alone that retains the Queensryche sound that they still have today ! It's there clear as day if you have an ear for it musically
I'm sure you don't have a problem with Geoff Tate slugging around destroying Queensryche material on a nightly basis because he can't sing anymore and the musicians that he plays with our lousy and don't have any passion for the material
After 1990’s Empire they never had another solid studio album until 2013 with La Torre.
No mention about the Frequency Unknown (FU) album. Would have liked to have heard Pardo's opinion of that one.
One of the worst albums ever made.
Any thoughts on the Sweet Oblivion project Geoff sang on?
Be honest. The Warning was THE album of the 80s. Queensryche's decline started with Rage for Order
I couldn't agree more. Warning was their best imo.
I still enjoy Mincrime II, but very little else from the Tate era post Promise Land. In fact, I can only think of two songs, "Sign of the Times" and one he did on an Avantasia album, really good song!
Great take. I gotta check the album from 2015
I didn't like any of the albums after empire, up until dedicated to chaos. That got me back into them and then they broke up after that. I was excited to see more stuff.
I bought every album up to q2k. And thats when it stopped
So you are a fan of the mostly Geoff Tate dedicated to chaos atrocity ..probably the worst Queensryche album ever! There's good stuff on most of their albums but just nothing that sticks over all
It's clearly obvious by their new material that Geoff Tate was a good part of the reason they went downhill in his music style changing and them going along with it until they had a boot him out
I saw Geoff last year live playing all of Rage for order and aside from the damn electronic drums it kicked ass. He sounded really good. And caught QR opening for Priest they were really solid. I am happy for them ❤
Without Tate and DeGarmo Queensryche isnt Queensryche . Simple as that .
Great Video!!! Queensryche was completely reborn with Todd LaTorre. The 2013 S/T was an album that made all us fans remember why we loved this band. I personally wasn't a huge fan of Condition Human, but it was still Queensryche and better than anything they had put out past Promised land. New album The Verdict is fantastic! Classic Ryche and LaTorre continues to find his own voice and good heavens the man can drum too! Tate had no peers in the early days of the band, but those days are long gone. I'm just glad the band is releasing quality material that they seem to enjoy making again.
not a bad band, but they just dont compare to '83 - '94 QR.
@@benedictdonald4338 Disagree. I rank the Verdict and S/T right up there with The Waning and Mindcrime in my top 4
I always thought that after “Here in the Now Frontier” they broke up…I didn’t know they were still putting out albums. W/out DeGarmo and Tate, however, there is no QR. Thus I stopped buying albums .
Apart from 2003's Tribe, which had the brief shining moment return of Chris DeGarmo, Queensryche were in the cellar from for the best part of 14 or 15 years before Geoff Tate was told to take a hike.
I swear it would have been better if they fired Tate after Hear In The Now Frontier and found a replacement for him and DeGarmo.
Sea of Tranquility , you said here in 2017 you're waiting for the next Queensryche album. Now it's 3/1/19 and The Verdict is here. Do you agree with early popular opinion that it's the best of the 3 albums with Todd? I definitely do.
I really like The Verdict, but I have to say that it took me much longer to get in to it than the previous two. It's still not a CD I listen to often. But I still listen to the self titled CD and Condition Human all the time. But most people do seem to think that The Verdict is the best CD with Todd. I'm glad people love it! I wish nothing but the best for the band and I highly look forward to the next release!
Without Tate it's a Queensryche cover band
The original line up is the best version of Queensryche no matter what anyone says.
I agree with what a lot of people are saying, but I think most of all, like many bands, the formula of DeGarmo and Tate writing with the contributions of Wilton, Jackson and Rockenfield made what Queensryche is. The new stuff just doesn't resonate with me.
I've watched some of Tate's recent tours last year doing old Queensryche albums and he sounded good. I don't like when people complain about singers when they get older. None of us does the work of a 25 year old at 65.
I still love and listen but only to those albuns from 86 to 90.
I totally agree with all you said. When Chris DeGarmo left, that was the beginning of the end imo. Not only is he an awesome lead guitarist but his vocals were great! He really quietly held up the band.
QR died back in 1993. What are you talking about? All those albums after sucked dick. Especially the 2000 album. OMG they suck. But Fates Warning albums always kicked major ass. Ray Adler and Jim Matheos. True in the game.
The Tate/DeGarmo writing team was what made the band. It was over when DeGarmo left. Anything since then is not Queensryche in my opinion.
Sounds like an issue that develops as Tate's family got involved in the business of the band, like with Dio, Ozzy etc.... it led to friction. Maybe creative differences with Tate and the band.
Thomas Fleming my thoughts exactly, it became the Geoff and Susan Tate roadshow and its my way or the highway. The rest of the band put up with it for as long as possible and then were like fuck it, this guy has to go. I think Susan was the Yoko Ono of this band for sure, I think she has a lot of influence over Geoff and she wanted to turn it in to a family business and run the whole show. at that point her and Geoff basically saw the rest of the band as hired help. I think she had quite a bit to do with the split of QR in my opinion.
The Caberet shitshow ruined so much respect
Sounds like your doing a very honest review showing respect where respect is due. I hate when critics completely trash a band or artist we love.
The biggest thing to go wrong with Queensryche was the loss of Neil Germano. But there was also the issues with Scott Rockenfield. Tate’s drama got the most attention and noise, but there was a whole bunch of things involving all the members that broke them.
I think you meant Chris DeGarmo.
Armored Saint never fell off. Ever.
Hey Pete, have you heard the two albums Geoff Tate did with Sweet Oblivion? I'd like to hear your thoughts about those albums and it would be cool if you did a video on those!
I saw Queensryche in concert back in the 90’s when they were pretty big, huge concert, huge. I’ve been a huge fan since Empire and it broke my heart when they split or rather when he was fired. At first like you said.. I was one of those fans, “there’s no Queensryche without Geoff, I refuse to listen to them with this new guy!” Blah blah blah. Fast forward to the now... I go see Geoff’s new band, had to check them out being the diehard fan that I was...am? 🧐🤨 (to be determined). Far cry from the show I saw in the 90s... this was a small dark venue that was basically a bar and grill with a stage. I thought to myself, so this is what he’s been reduced to.. I didn’t know if I should clap at the end of each song or pay my condolences. I guess it’s come down to them just booking gigs with whoever has open spots at this point. Did Geoff do this to himself? A big part of me says, yeah.. this is all on you buddy.. it’s sad to me because in my eyes and ears, Geoff had the most beautiful and melodic vocals that I have ever heard and was by far one of the most underrated musicians to come on the to scene in many years. and then to be reduced to little shithole venues with crappy servers and watered down tap beer almost put me in tears. And as for Todd.. he definitely put Queensryche on the map again and I say kudos to him for reviving the band and bringing them back to their former glory.
They really started to fail when Chris D. Left, he was the main songwriter.
Hey Pete how is it going my friend?
Will you be gettin'. The new Queensyche album? If so I can't wait to see a video stay frosty my friend 🤘🤘
Coming at you from Oklahoma my friend remember stay frosty 🤘
As far as I'm concerned, Empire was THE Last Great Queensryche album.
Degarmo was probably the glue that held them all together, decides to retire from music and becomes a private pilot, talk about multifaceted...
Spot on totally agree the new Queensryche stuff is amazing
Good video but more importantly, what's your favorite Sabbath album?
In 2019, the local rock station played a song called Won't Cry Now - I heard it like twice, of course the idiots never said who it was. It sounded like Geoff Tate or Queensryche, but I can't find it anywhere. Anyone hear something like that recently - know the song?
If people people can't accept queensryche without Tate then maybe you should accept that..and anyway it doesn't matter who the singer is their time has passed they are now irrelevant, however mindcrime will be a classic forever which is all that matters
One of my favourite bands. Loved them up to Empire and the albums since Todd has been in the band are outstanding
Thank You Pete! I Worship both Rage For Order & Operation Mindcrime, Mindcrime to me is one of the best Albums ever Produced by any band, I saw these guys open for Kiss on their Warning Tour, and even then I thought, you give these guys a few years to figure this out and they are gonna do something, so when Empire came out I bought it right away and put it on my stereo, Disappointed was a understatement after listening to it for the first time, couple of tracks were cool ( Another rainy Night was very cool) but none of the tracks on Empire were Rockers to me, not like on Mindcrime! so I was like " Well, that's it" and as each following release came they got worse, then Chris Degarmo left and the wheels came right off, I mean to me Operation Mindcrime 2 was unlistenable! and I said to everybody I knew Geoff Tate is a Has been, and it's too bad ( I still say a lot of Tate's problem is that he got mixed up with Chris Cornell's Ex Wife, and nothing kills a career or a band then getting mixed up with her, and letting her " Manage" your career, but this new guy Latorre? He is very, very Good!
Thank you! I thought I was alone in the Empire isn't very good camp. After Mindcrime, that album just falls flat. I thought Promised Land was an improvement but then the slide started. Empire still sounds like a sellout, overproduced record.
@@seanmoloney7797 Nope. You're not alone. I found Empire to be very boring. Had some moments but just plain dull.
@@mxgonzo Agreed
Pete my friend works at Delta Downs Casino in Louisiana where Geoff Tate's Operation Mindcrime was booked for a Evening With show. Out of the 500 capacity for the venue, only 105 showed up to the show. They could not even give tickets out to try and fill it.
Isn't Louisiana full of dumbfuck pumpkins who listen to gay bluegrass music. If I were QR I wouldn't have stopped there.
@@jonclarkson5911 lmao
@@jonclarkson5911 pretty much
Hi Pete love the show.. was at ur home about 20 years ago. U had every Robert D and Al P movie in ur collection . ( even the crappy ones) thought to myself this is one cool guy would love to pick his brain. Now we all get the chance .
Great video, maybe Geoff is taking the hint now as he performed the entire Operation Mindcrime recently. Only thing is that he is down tuning the songs and to me it doesn't sound right, but vocally he is handling those songs from the footage I've seen!
Amen Brother...well said...J
One of the many things I like and respect about Pete, is that he is not a "Completest". By that I mean, he doesn't just talk about Legacy artists he loves as if they "can do no wrong". He is honest and backs up his opinions in a very frank and reasonable way, without coming across immature and Snarky like most people on UA-cam who do these types of Posts. As you can easily infer from my UA-cam name, I'm a huge Bruce Springsteen fan, but am honest enough to say, IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, he hasn't written a truly excellent Record up to his very high standards since the Tunnel of Love record. As always, "your Mileage may vary..." Peace ♫
It's unfortunate the divorce was so messy, but he blew out his vocals making them famous, so I hope they are at least paying 'spousal support'.
Come on with that feminism bullshit. Go home to mommy.
No mention of Frequency Unknown?
I agree !! I think after Promised Land it was obvious that the 2 sides were not working well together anymore. The new stuff with Todd is great and I think The Verdict is their best album with Todd !!
Queensryche didn't exist for me after 90. I tried to like promised land......I REALLY REALLY tried
Me too!
Didn't really know history thanks for update.
True,all true
They formed in 1981 as „The Mob“
Dude, you’re wrong. Geoff Tate still sounds like himself without the band Queensryche. Have you actually listened to him?
DeGarmo was THE magic ingredient
You should read the transcripts/statements from their court trial, that was real eye-opener, many things finally made sense after reading that. I found them on the web many years ago, very interesting read for the real fans.
I read it. It was almost like Tate was a domestic abuser...And the band mates were victims
Queensryche were great back in the day but now they sound like iron maiden
On the softer side of music pop pop pop it’s like journey without Steve Perry for me
I agree the new singer is great and I love the tunes I haven’t really heard what Geoff is doing so I can’t judge yet !
I’m with you on the new version of Queensryche. Todd has been the shot in the arm that the band needed. Now with 2 more albums out since you did this vid the band has continued soaring.
Casual fan....to me what shocked me more than anything about the band was that cabaret tour they did. I just got the sense that DeGarmo left and Tate just wasn't into the music. The funny thing is I think the split was the best thing to happen to both parties....both sides seem energized.
I have to apologize for my negative comments awhile back Pete. But Queensryche is a top 5 band for me. I'll be looking for more videos on the topic. Loved them since Mindcrime first came out, and same as you, kept on following and getting more let down with every new release. I was even following the one close to official fan forum, very closely, and watching all the events unfold. At one time, Tate was my 2nd favorite vocalist, only to Dickinson, but I was so upset with him for a couple years, that I couldn't even listen to Mindcrime. I had to get over it! And eventually did. There's no way I could not listen to Mindcrime, it's a desert island album for sure! Pretty much forgotten about Tate now, and follow the new Queensryche with Todd. The Verdict is the best one yet! But now it seems Scott R is gone now too. Todd played drums on the new album.
I thought this was actually gonna be something new and insightful but it turned out to be popular opinion making me think why before making it? The masses believe as you do so why are you defending the new lineup of Queensryche. They don't need it.
Here's the thing. Music is subjective. Always has been. What sounds great to some will sound god awful to others and vice-versa. Doesn't mean either is bad. Music is music. I discovered Queensryche with Promised Land. Then I found The Warning (this is while Tribe was their current release). I then got hold of Tribe and eventually got all the other albums but it was Promised Land that got me hooked and got me into progessive music in general. I was already a metal fan at this point having been introduced with bands like Black Sabbath and Iron Maiden.
I liked every Queensryche studio release with my bottom rated being Q2K and Dedicated To Chaos below that. Wasn't big on Take Cover but I'm focusing on original material here.
Since the controversial split I have followed both camps. I tried to get into the new Queensryche lineup but the first self titled effort had production issues and was too tinny and loud. Beyond that while the material is not bad by any stretch I find it to be nothing more than generic metal. There's not really anything there that I can say "that's Queensryche". It could be almost any decent metal band.
Geoff's stuff however, (other than perhaps Kings and Thieves which I can agree wasn't great) has kept that unique quality to it. For better or worse you know it's Geoff. I also don't find the stuff boring. While it's not as great as Queensryche at their best (Rage through Promised Land) it's still interesting and entertaining material to me.
What also needs to be considered is Todd is much younger than Geoff. He's currently around the same age as Geoff was during the Live Evolution era. Geoff was still able to perform the classics himself at that point. Did they sound studio perfect? Of course not, but they still sounded good vocally.
It's not based on popular opinion J, just mine. I hear plenty of debate towards both sides- those who tired of Tate years ago and have embraced the new line-up of the band to those that think Tate is a god and Queensryche without him are worthless. And, many people I've talked to who make up the latter, don't even bother to listen to any of Tate's new music, but form this opinion based on the EP to Promised Land. I've been a fan of both the band and Tate since the early '80s, but I have to say, they needed to go their separate ways. There's a lot of weak albums there after Promised Land. The two releases with Todd, to me, carry the spirit of the classic era of the band. Geoff's material sounds tired and listless...to my ears anyway, and the songs are just not memorable. Do I wish that wasn't the case? Certainly. But it's what my ears hear at this point. If you feel the opposite, and there's many people who do, that's cool of course! This 'rant' was just meant to give my take on the situation, cause I hear lot of different opinions.
Thanks for clearing this up then. See, as someone who still supported Geoff's career (note I say, career. Personality doesn't even come into it.) I've encountered much of the opposite to you. An onslaught of nothing but hate, with people going out of their way to comment on Geoff's videos just to hate on them so it has made me rather guarded. If this is your honest opinion however then I respect that.
I did notice how you seemed to avoid bringing Geoff's personality into it or all this court related crap which I truly appreciate. Only the music matters. I'm sorry the new stuff didn't do it for you man. I really am.
I wanted to like it, I really did. As I said, I've always been a fan, but nothing he's recorded in years has done a thing for me, sadly.
@@seaoftranquilityprog The Sweet Oblivion album that Geoff sang on in 2019, was the only thing I liked with him singing since the 90's.
I gave new queensryche a chance with their self titled album, but I only like one song on the album. I will say though, that's one song more than I liked on Geoff tates first album after the break up. I haven't listened to anything from either of them since then though.
You definitely need to check out The Verdict then, I thought the self titled album wasn't very good too, but listen to Light-Years, Inside Out, Inner Unrest, Bent, or Portrait
Its just a Queensryche Cover Band now.
I disagree. Last album is fantastic. One of their best. Todd is awesome live.
Let's face it; 'Ryche always was DeGarmo. He was quiet & laid back, so it wasn't so obvious, but when he left, it collapsed.
I remember the first time seeing them at Lamors east in queens around 85 the place was packed they put on a good show.
I was there. Fates Warning was the opener. And Fates kicked major ass.