It is. On the other hand it's kinda nice how they use Nicknames... like you would say Magic, or Dr.J or The Chosen One... because they knew him, he was one of them, one like them. So the friendly nickname "the Morning Star" instead of his name. It's such a fine pick...
@@canyoudigit-o2t, it wasn't. The movie and the Bible both described the conflict when Lucifer tried to declare war on God. It led to the creation of hell and the expulsion of a third of the angels that supported Lucifer.
When Loki finally sees how messed the plan is "well fuck that! I've seen what happens when the proud take on the Throne" I love Kevin Smith's writing in this movie, it's one of his best.
Great writing by Kevin Smith. This film received little or no acclaim. This is my favorite scene. Bartleby was right. It’s sad when you see it from their point of view.
Very good movie, but a lot of people failed to see the big idea Kevin Smith was really trying to drive home: the absurdity of the concept that God is infallible. It was the pride of God in the movie that caused it, the unwillingness to admit She was wrong, and I use She because that was how the movie perceived God. If God just said sorry, and apologized for overreacting and being petty, maybe the whole thing wouldn't have even been necessary. Great film, lots of ideas that should be discussed further. Ideas still leave you doubting things, and doubts don't allow you to have the courage to actually see reality as a whole.
That's because Affleck thinks he's a superior creature, being ''righteously indignated'' towards factual criticism about a religion he doesn't understand is his strong suit. A delusional angel is the role that was made for him.
Fucken lies. Lucifer morningstar did not challenge God. For the throne. That is not why he was cast from heaven. He was our FATHER s lover. Gay. And he was always FUCKEN lieing 😛. I hold my peace.
Kevin Smith was given a lot of crap from Catholics about this movie, but as a practicing Catholic it is not far from the truth. Though holy relics and things of that nature were basically outlawed by the Pope, some churches never let go of that old practice. And many Christians forget that Lucifer wasn't the only Angel to fall.
The movie that religious fanatics hated for its critique and parody of biblical figures, when ironically the very end of the movie finishes quite beautifully and powerfully with Beth finding her faith again
Just wait for the day when the truth is revealed and that concept is shown to actually be real. Research the Watchers if you want to have an idea of the actual scriptures describing the actual subjective truth of how angels ended up on Earth.
0:48-2:29 couldn’t help but feel sad for them and all that stuff coming from an angel I couldn’t help but agree with him, how us humans have taken everything for granted and almost every fucked up thing that’s happening in the world is our fault and almost all of us chose to ignore to acknowledge the fact that it’s our fault. Only a few us have acknowledged our mistakes and want to fix it and want to make the world great and their efforts r rarely acknowledged, that’s what’s sad. this year everything has gone to shit and I’m just more disappointed in us humans. However, despite being surrounded by people who almost always make the most stupidest decisions and sometimes most cruel decisions, there r people who actually make good decisions and smart decisions. So there’s a chance for all of us to make the world less unbearable to live in.
It’s the part of us that humanity that makes us decent. You saw their pain and felt bad for them. You understand their pain and empathize or at the very least sympathize with them. They did what they felt was right and were punished for it. There’s nothing wrong with feeling that way. The only problem would be if you sided with them which is completely different. Feelings and action are not the same thing my man.
@@sialexander203 they are talking about the devil. but before he fell and was cast out of heaven he was an angel and his title was the morningstar. Lucifer is translated from latin to mean lightbringer. but theres no reason for these characters to say that because they knew him personally.
In the old days, Bartelby convinced Loki (Uriel?) to tell God they wouldn't kill in their name. In the movie, Bartleby tries to convince Loki they should kill the world in the name of God. Interesting role reversal, espc since 1 is the Angel of Death & ones a Watcher.
It's important to remember that up to this point, Loki was the fanatic and Bartleby the voice of reason. The inversion is brilliant, especially because it's still in character for both of them.
Let go of fear do all with love you have to remember thyself for you will know the truth no one puts you anywhere except for your programming love will save you you have to heal my love please heal I beg of thee my love is infinite don’t ever forget please
Awesome movie hands down 💯💯💯💯 beyond awesome scene 💯💯💯 we are giving freewill and abuse it this planet we are destroying it! We don't deserve this planet or freewill we are ungrateful and and we abuse it & we don't see it!
This is one of my more favorite films of Smith’s. As George carlin once said in one of his comedy specials, ‘Carlin at Carnegie,’ I was religious, until I reached the age of reason. I was raised Catholic, and I have no hate against religion. In general, people can believe what they want, as long as they don’t try to push it on me, and that’s always been my thought on it. This is a really odd comparison, much like when the Da Vinci code with Tom Hanks came out, that as well was about the religious sect, and Jesus and all of these things held sacred, and considering I am someone who usually tries to live in things by logic and common sense, but doesn’t deny emotion, whenever most people are hurt, or surrounded by the concepts of emotion or religion, any form of logic/common sense/critical thinking that can make you really have to break down what you think already or believe and break it down and really think about it, usually is looked at as negative/a stigma because whatever is pointed out even if it’s not true, but if there’s a rational possibility to it or a valid tattoo it, it’s usually looked at as negative, hurtful, or disliked, and I’ve not only never liked that idea, but I find it funny that when it comes to the ideas of either religious thought and belief or emotional thought, both of those overwhelm rationality, and wanting to believe anything if slightly valid placed on the road of the path or something that people already believe in and I don’t hate that, but I do dislike that which is why, so there’s a high probability I have Asperger‘s, I’m just not legally diagnosed with that, but even though I can be a caring and emotional person, I tend to go more or less by common sense, and logic, in which case the characters of Sherlock Holmes and Spock are two big role, models of mine in the idea of critical, thinking, observation and analysis, I myself have never liked that validity, along the forms of anything that might have logic or common sense behind it, or even critical thinking, is drowned out, disliked or not used simply because it gets in the way of full sickly thought of/sought after emotion or religious referentialness. I’m not sure what Kevin Smith thinks of himself, but I consider him a pretty, smart and intelligent guy, and I liked all of his movies, because there’s always something thought-provoking or, when you really not just watch the characters in the scene, but when you really listen to what they say, there is validity to it, it makes sense, you can listen to what people talk about and not think it’s crazy or fictionalized or made up on any extreme level. I have several of his movies on Blu-ray, including this one, and if he makes any more movies in the future, I will most likely go to see them.
This is also one of my favorite movies. I was raised Christian but now I'm Agnostic. This film helped solidify my lack of religion. The whole thing about "taking a good idea and turning it into a belief" hit me right in the logic. I understand the strength of belief, even the utility behind it. Belief can help carry you through the worst shit you've ever been through and can raise you up, so yeah, I understand the reason why so many people do it. The problem comes when you your strength of belief and conviction out lives its usefulness; when it starts to be drawing a line in the sand and no amount of logic can deter you. That's why when belief gets challenged, it's usually met by violence. Millennia spanning conflicts have survived because of beliefs. As a result, I go out of my way to strike the word, "believe" from my lexicon; specifically turning phrases like, "I believe so," to "I think so". Does that mean my convictions are the strongest? No. That's kind of the point though. You won't find me dying on a hill or killing anyone over a belief. All thanks to this movie. I could talk about this movie for hours.
@user-hx8vh9fr1o I understand your position, but belief is not the problem, the believer is. I think what helps most is making a distinction between biblical belief and worldly belief.
I can’t believe I never realized how disgusting this movie is. Mocking God, the faith. Especially after seeing what Hollywood turned out to be. I hope all these actors burn 🔥 in helll for eternity for being part of leading humanity away from truth.
So much Christ like love, hoping people burn in hell. Do you hypocrites even hear yourself ? Doesn’t the God you supposedly serve weep at any soul lost and the angels rejoice anytime a name is written in the book of life and here you are with all the presumptive ego of an infallible human, praying for their eternal suffering
OMG it's not a movie about "God and the faith". It's a movie period. It doesn't mock... it extrapolates ideas out of an entire endless register of ideas... which is Christian and Catholic escatology. It does not challenge God and your faith in any way. Sit down and chill, contain your indignation and use it better for other things.
I have watched this scene so many times and when Loki says “You sound like the Morning Star” I get a chill. Every single time.
same, there is something about that line that is sombre and powerful......
He is talking how lucifer on supernatural talked
Satan, Lucifer
Musical cues + Intertextuality, man!
It is. On the other hand it's kinda nice how they use Nicknames... like you would say Magic, or Dr.J or The Chosen One... because they knew him, he was one of them, one like them. So the friendly nickname "the Morning Star" instead of his name. It's such a fine pick...
This film had so many layers. Deeply religious, yet also irreligious. So amazing.
"Well fuck that... I have seen what happens to the proud when they take on the Throne"
@@canyoudigit-o2t, it wasn't. The movie and the Bible both described the conflict when Lucifer tried to declare war on God. It led to the creation of hell and the expulsion of a third of the angels that supported Lucifer.
When Loki finally sees how messed the plan is "well fuck that! I've seen what happens when the proud take on the Throne"
I love Kevin Smith's writing in this movie, it's one of his best.
I have seen what happens when the proud take on the Throne. Best line of the whole entire movie.
Powerfully underrated scene. Love this movie.
Great writing by Kevin Smith. This film received little or no acclaim. This is my favorite scene. Bartleby was right. It’s sad when you see it from their point of view.
This easily my favorite Kevin Smith movie. :)
Mine too. I feel it deserved a larger audience, even for those who are not religious, as I am not either. A lot of us who grew up Catholic
the Bethany character really struck a chord.
Very good movie, but a lot of people failed to see the big idea Kevin Smith was really trying to drive home: the absurdity of the concept that God is infallible. It was the pride of God in the movie that caused it, the unwillingness to admit She was wrong, and I use She because that was how the movie perceived God. If God just said sorry, and apologized for overreacting and being petty, maybe the whole thing wouldn't have even been necessary. Great film, lots of ideas that should be discussed further. Ideas still leave you doubting things, and doubts don't allow you to have the courage to actually see reality as a whole.
The thought of them witnessing Lucifer’s rebellion against god, is fascinating
This IMO is some of Afflak's best work ever.
Agreed! Its actually one of my favorite performances by him.
That's because Affleck thinks he's a superior creature, being ''righteously indignated'' towards factual criticism about a religion he doesn't understand is his strong suit.
A delusional angel is the role that was made for him.
...I've heard a rant like this before..
TF when you realise that Bartleby and Loki were there when Lucifer challenged God, and they saw it all
What did you say simon??
@@timorgano this must scare them in a way
This Lucifer is not a morning person!
Fucken lies. Lucifer morningstar did not challenge God. For the throne. That is not why he was cast from heaven. He was our FATHER s lover. Gay. And he was always FUCKEN lieing 😛. I hold my peace.
I love this movie I've seen it a million times and I'll watch it a million more I agree with Affleck in this scene this is one of my favorite scenes
Kevin Smith was given a lot of crap from Catholics about this movie, but as a practicing Catholic it is not far from the truth. Though holy relics and things of that nature were basically outlawed by the Pope, some churches never let go of that old practice. And many Christians forget that Lucifer wasn't the only Angel to fall.
The movie that religious fanatics hated for its critique and parody of biblical figures, when ironically the very end of the movie finishes quite beautifully and powerfully with Beth finding her faith again
I love the concept of discraised angels living amongst us but still talking about their past life
Just wait for the day when the truth is revealed and that concept is shown to actually be real. Research the Watchers if you want to have an idea of the actual scriptures describing the actual subjective truth of how angels ended up on Earth.
0:48-2:29 couldn’t help but feel sad for them and all that stuff coming from an angel I couldn’t help but agree with him, how us humans have taken everything for granted and almost every fucked up thing that’s happening in the world is our fault and almost all of us chose to ignore to acknowledge the fact that it’s our fault. Only a few us have acknowledged our mistakes and want to fix it and want to make the world great and their efforts r rarely acknowledged, that’s what’s sad. this year everything has gone to shit and I’m just more disappointed in us humans. However, despite being surrounded by people who almost always make the most stupidest decisions and sometimes most cruel decisions, there r people who actually make good decisions and smart decisions. So there’s a chance for all of us to make the world less unbearable to live in.
“You’re talking about fucking war on god”
I don't know why this scene always makes me feel pity. I still tear up.
that's the right reaction. This is really how it went down in the beginning of time...
It’s the part of us that humanity that makes us decent. You saw their pain and felt bad for them. You understand their pain and empathize or at the very least sympathize with them. They did what they felt was right and were punished for it. There’s nothing wrong with feeling that way. The only problem would be if you sided with them which is completely different. Feelings and action are not the same thing my man.
2:53 I liked this part right here that sudden realization
The irony that angels dont understand is that we aspire to be them.
Yeah, because freewill is pain. That's why we look for trends and people to follow.
"Humans crave subjugation." Loki
Ben and Matt made this movie so good
That echoing is just like being in church, if you've ever listened to mass in a Catholic Church, the acoustics very similar
One of the best scenes ever made in any production
Kevin Smith's finest work
something inherently brotherly about them calling him by his title instead of his name.
I honestly read you post like seven times over,i'm so confused about what you meant, who's name?
I’m assuming the Morningstar/ aka Lucifer
@@lukepettinger1755 of course
@@sialexander203 they are talking about the devil. but before he fell and was cast out of heaven he was an angel and his title was the morningstar. Lucifer is translated from latin to mean lightbringer. but theres no reason for these characters to say that because they knew him personally.
Bartleby also calls Loki "Seraph" at one point during his rant when the latter accused the former of sounding like Lucifer.
In the old days, Bartelby convinced Loki (Uriel?) to tell God they wouldn't kill in their name.
In the movie, Bartleby tries to convince Loki they should kill the world in the name of God.
Interesting role reversal, espc since 1 is the Angel of Death & ones a Watcher.
Ben's acting here is pretty good.
Best scene in the movie.
It's important to remember that up to this point, Loki was the fanatic and Bartleby the voice of reason. The inversion is brilliant, especially because it's still in character for both of them.
It's literally the reason why I love this scene.
That was the best scene of the whole movie.
Silent Bob talked 👀
He does that from time to time.
love this scene
Funny how enough time with humans can make you realize, if you have the power, that they arent worth shit
Let go of fear do all with love you have to remember thyself for you will know the truth no one puts you anywhere except for your programming love will save you you have to heal my love please heal I beg of thee my love is infinite don’t ever forget please
Awesome movie hands down 💯💯💯💯 beyond awesome scene 💯💯💯 we are giving freewill and abuse it this planet we are destroying it! We don't deserve this planet or freewill we are ungrateful and and we abuse it & we don't see it!
Intense
This is one of my more favorite films of Smith’s.
As George carlin once said in one of his comedy specials, ‘Carlin at Carnegie,’ I was religious, until I reached the age of reason.
I was raised Catholic, and I have no hate against religion. In general, people can believe what they want, as long as they don’t try to push it on me, and that’s always been my thought on it.
This is a really odd comparison, much like when the Da Vinci code with Tom Hanks came out, that as well was about the religious sect, and Jesus and all of these things held sacred, and considering I am someone who usually tries to live in things by logic and common sense, but doesn’t deny emotion, whenever most people are hurt, or surrounded by the concepts of emotion or religion, any form of logic/common sense/critical thinking that can make you really have to break down what you think already or believe and break it down and really think about it, usually is looked at as negative/a stigma because whatever is pointed out even if it’s not true, but if there’s a rational possibility to it or a valid tattoo it, it’s usually looked at as negative, hurtful, or disliked, and I’ve not only never liked that idea, but I find it funny that when it comes to the ideas of either religious thought and belief or emotional thought, both of those overwhelm rationality, and wanting to believe anything if slightly valid placed on the road of the path or something that people already believe in and I don’t hate that, but I do dislike that which is why, so there’s a high probability I have Asperger‘s, I’m just not legally diagnosed with that, but even though I can be a caring and emotional person, I tend to go more or less by common sense, and logic, in which case the characters of Sherlock Holmes and Spock are two big role, models of mine in the idea of critical, thinking, observation and analysis, I myself have never liked that validity, along the forms of anything that might have logic or common sense behind it, or even critical thinking, is drowned out, disliked or not used simply because it gets in the way of full sickly thought of/sought after emotion or religious referentialness.
I’m not sure what Kevin Smith thinks of himself, but I consider him a pretty, smart and intelligent guy, and I liked all of his movies, because there’s always something thought-provoking or, when you really not just watch the characters in the scene, but when you really listen to what they say, there is validity to it, it makes sense, you can listen to what people talk about and not think it’s crazy or fictionalized or made up on any extreme level.
I have several of his movies on Blu-ray, including this one, and if he makes any more movies in the future, I will most likely go to see them.
This is also one of my favorite movies. I was raised Christian but now I'm Agnostic. This film helped solidify my lack of religion. The whole thing about "taking a good idea and turning it into a belief" hit me right in the logic. I understand the strength of belief, even the utility behind it. Belief can help carry you through the worst shit you've ever been through and can raise you up, so yeah, I understand the reason why so many people do it. The problem comes when you your strength of belief and conviction out lives its usefulness; when it starts to be drawing a line in the sand and no amount of logic can deter you. That's why when belief gets challenged, it's usually met by violence. Millennia spanning conflicts have survived because of beliefs.
As a result, I go out of my way to strike the word, "believe" from my lexicon; specifically turning phrases like, "I believe so," to "I think so". Does that mean my convictions are the strongest? No. That's kind of the point though. You won't find me dying on a hill or killing anyone over a belief.
All thanks to this movie. I could talk about this movie for hours.
@user-hx8vh9fr1o I understand your position, but belief is not the problem, the believer is. I think what helps most is making a distinction between biblical belief and worldly belief.
I thought this was a TB12 video?
I can’t believe I never realized how disgusting this movie is. Mocking God, the faith. Especially after seeing what Hollywood turned out to be. I hope all these actors burn 🔥 in helll for eternity for being part of leading humanity away from truth.
Lmfao get off your high horse
😂 such a hypocrite
So much Christ like love, hoping people burn in hell. Do you hypocrites even hear yourself ? Doesn’t the God you supposedly serve weep at any soul lost and the angels rejoice anytime a name is written in the book of life and here you are with all the presumptive ego of an infallible human, praying for their eternal suffering
OMG it's not a movie about "God and the faith". It's a movie period. It doesn't mock... it extrapolates ideas out of an entire endless register of ideas... which is Christian and Catholic escatology.
It does not challenge God and your faith in any way. Sit down and chill, contain your indignation and use it better for other things.
He’s always throwing someone against a wall
"Do you bleed? "
"We're going home"