The Long Forgotten Dartford Tunnel Cycle Bus
Вставка
- Опубліковано 10 гру 2023
- The story of the long forgotten Dartford Tunnel Bicycle Bus!
NOTE: Whilst I make every attempt to locate the source of the videos used in my videos, many are taken from other websites or UA-cam videos were sources are not cited. If you are aware of the source then please do not hesitate to comment below.
Thanks for watching!
I cycled from Wivenhoe, Essex to Henfield, Sussex in Summer 1964 and used this service to get through the tunnel.
Cool! I have a London-Colchester ride planned that will use the current version of the bus (just a van and telephone call points at either end of the tunnel).
Here in Glasgow, they solved the problem, by building separate tunnels that pedestrians and cyclists could use, the tunnel/s ran alongside the tunnels for cars.
There's a pedestrian (and cycle, though I think they're supposed to be walked) tunnel under the Tyne, which predates the vehicle Tyne tunnel by a very long time. The south end is in Jarrow. Many even local people are unaware of its existence. Although it's all in Tyne and Wear now, it still says Durham | Northumberland set into the tiles half way across!
@@G6JPG A cycled through that tunnel several few years ago, and you were still allowed to cycle then. By pedestrian/cycling standards it's vast and was built for the Festival of Britain and was apparently used by 20,000 people a day. That was, of course, when there was still a lot of shipbuilding.
Yes, a great system, cycled it many times myself. Newcastle has a similar approach.
Went through the Dartford Tunnel with my bike back in 1970, the bike was strapped to the trailer and I went in the LandRover. Was on a grand bike tour of England from home near Manchester, going through the Dartford Tunnel was quite a novelty for this Northerner.
what happen do you just turn up on a bike any things happen, or did have book in advance or something? is it payed for service still?
no, just turned up and there was Landy waiting to take foot passengers and bikes through the tunnel.
@@dh2032
@@dh2032 You just turn up. Its free.
There's a special telephone there, to request the service.
It takes about 10 minutes to arrive.
This still runs on the QE2 bridge now, you call a number and they pick you and your bike uo
Seems quite amazing that they set up a service with capacity for 460 bikes per hour (a bus every six minutes in each direction, 23 bikes per bus). It's really hard to imagine demand being anything close to that. Why would so many cyclists in Thurrock want to get to Dartford, or vice-versa?
British people use to cycle a lot. Cycling declined through the 1950s but for the first few years of the 1960s the British still cycled more than the Dutch do now. Unfortunately cycling declined quite quickly in the UK from the 1960s onward as cars took over the roads and made cycling less pleasant and more dangerous.
Was there a ferry there before? I guess if there was, then there might have been a sizeable number of regular commuters who went by bike.
@@DavidHembrow Right, but the only people who would use the bus service would be people who would want to travel between Thurrock and Dartford, which doesn't sound like a lot of people. The only way you're going to get hundreds of people an hour is if they're commuting, but why would people suddenly start commuting between those two places?
@@hackdaniels7253 Not 'there' but between Tilbury and Gravesend. I do remember seeing a fair number of cyclists on the ferries.
Dartford and Thurrock both have a reasonable population, and the distance between them is about 10 miles (following roads). That is perfectly cyclable, so there must have been commuters. In fact, 460 bikes per hour does not seem that high; the buses must have been set up for rush hour as well, and that is only 1 bicycle per 5 to 6 seconds. If you go to any cycle path between cycle-friendly cities you will certainly see peaks higher than that. A bicycle path becomes congested beyond about 1 bicycle per second.
Interesting picture of the semi derelict bus on tow as it's me that was steering it behind my friends recovery truck
... we need more details!! - Where was the picture taken? When? Where did you take it from/to? Why were you involved? More please?! (I don't get out much) thanks!
Was taking at Capital City buses yard , we were talking it to another location on the other side of London ,it was a misrible cold day @@paulyouphone2793
In the early 90s, I would make the journey from Romford, Essex to Dartford by cycle most weekends. There's a path from the Rainham junction all the way to the bridge. At no charge my bike was loaded onto a rack on the back of a Land Rover 90 (Defender) and ferried across the bridge. Good Times.
I used to see a double decker parked up on the left by the dartford crossing offices going towards essex and this was as recent as 10 years maybe. Was this the bus?
Blimey! This is the first that I've heard of this in my 63 years and I have had a long association with buses. Also an ex London Transport (when Chiswick & the skid pan was still open), and Wilts & Dorset driver.
Lots of my mates worked on the construction of the tunnel, while I worked on the Victoria line in London.
I used to like the BEA Heathrow to Victoria coach service with a trailer for your luggage.
I lived in Dartford all through the 1960's and can well remember these special buses (although I never actually used them). I have read somewhere that they had great problems initially passing the "tilt test".
Oddly enough as far away as British Columbia, Canada we have a new bus route modelled after this on! Bus route 900 is also known as Metro Vancouver’s Bike Tunnel Bus. It seats 20 and holds about the same amount of bikes. Runs every 20 minutes with route 620 Tsawwassen Ferry Terminal between the busy Metro Mainland and the Vancouver Island Ferry Terminal. The route will also continue running when the new 10 lane tunnel with bike paths are built.
In Vancouver we’ve got two sorta situations like this! There is a sprinter van used as an ad-hoc shuttle for bikes and pedestrians through the George Massey Tunnel, and we have a seasonal 900 Bike Bus service to Tsawwassen Ferry terminal! It uses a modified Novabus LFS with the main floor seats removed and replaced with 7 interior bike racks. With the two standard on the front, it can carry 9 bikes and 18 people!
I believe the current iteration of the Dartford Tunnel bike bus is the same -- a van and telephone call points in car parks at either end of the tunnel. I actually have a planned long-distance bike ride that will use it, but I've not had chance to do it yet.
Absolutely fascinating.I consider myself interested in public transport from a social history perspective,and yet if this was described to me without seeing it,i would not believe it existed.More of these videos on these type of oddities please!
Interesting history - I did once take my bike through the tunnel on the special bus, and another time with the Tunnel Police LandRover. There was also a London Transport Country Area route 300, worked by RTs, from Dartford Market Place to Grays. I believe that lasted a bit longer than the cycle bus service, but again demand was not as high as forecast. As far as I'm aware, there isn't any local public transport using the tunnel or bridge at present. (But happy to be corrected.)
Oh wow! What was it like?
I lived in Dartford all through the 1960's. My father didn't have a car at this time and we used the 300 several times as we had a relative living in Canvey Island (Eastern National had a connection at Grays). I believe that you are correct in saying that there is no longer any local public transport using the tunnel (or Q.E. II Bridge).
The last time I looked at a timetable, EnsignBus were running a bus (X80?) between the Lakeside and Bluewater shopping centres through the tunnel - subject to cancellation at times of traffic chaos! Back in the 70s and 80s, there used to be the Eastern National 402 twice a day from Southend to Dartford (briefly extended to London) and there was also the rather eccentric Thames Weald service that ran from Romford to various odd parts of Kent - I think this survived for quite a while, but is now long gone.
@@timbounds7190 Thanks - I'll have to look out for EnsignBus when I'm in a traffic jam at the Dartford Crossing! I used to have a Thames Weald timetable at one time - produced on a stencil duplicator (remember them?) with a pink card cover.
I live in Purfleet (can see the QE2 bridge from my car park!) and can confirm that the Ensign X80 service runs hourly from Chafford Hundred Rail Station to Bluewater Bus Station via Lakeside, Crossways and Greenhithe Station. There is a disclaimer on the timetable regarding traffic delays, the crossing is notorious for those.
I distinctly remember using that bike bus, I was a schoolboy when the buses were operational. Me and my friend would get on the bus with our bikes and then cycle from Dartford to Gravesend. On the return journey we would catch the Tilbury - Gravesend ferry and cycle back home on the Essex side of the river making it a complete round trip.
Interesting video, thank you.
Dartford tunnel had a couple of other unusual vehicles. Breakdown recovery trucks built on three wheel Scammell Scarabs.
There were two of these adapted Scammell Scarabs. Because they lasted far longer than most Scarabs and had very low mileage, they have both passed into preservation.
The main point being that they could do a complete about turn within the tunnel.
They also had a weird recovery vehicle contraption based on the front part of a motorised scraper.
As an ardent cycletourer in the 70s, my preferred way of crossing the Thames from Kent to Essex with a bicycle was via the small Gravesend-Tilbury ferry - you could even take a motorcycle over on it in those days. I note the ferry presently operates a half-hourly service and has a bus connection from the Tilbury ferry landing to Tilbury Town station.
Amazing 😍 for carring bikes and passenges and those 😮 sure enjoyed that well even no conducter
Never saw this bus before ...what a great idea ...love the coach work on her..
I didn't know about these strange buses, not least because I only moved to Kent in 1981. The following year, having taken the ferry from Gravesend to Tilbury with my bike, I got to the northern end of the Dartford Tunnel for the return leg. I stopped for a swig of water and, before I could get to the phone to request suitable transport, a Land Rover and trailer turned up to transfer my bike and me back to Kent. I complimented the driver on the speed of his arrival and was even more surprised when he said he had seen me on the CCTV system from his base on the south side and had driven through the northbound tunnel and had turned round to meet me. Admittedly it was around Sunday lunchtime but I think he said I was the first cyclist they had transported in either direction so far that day.
Great video which I did enjoy .... however, I'm going to nit-pick here and point out that the tunnel was at the time (and still is not) the most easterly crossing point on the Thames that cyclists can use. Further downstream is the Tilbury - Gravesend Ferry that shuttles back and forth over the river and which carries foot-passengers and bicycles.
The Dartford tunnels are the bane of my life 😩😭 and nobody wants to get to Dartford any quicker than they need too 😅
The Pommies are a very creative bunch, it was a pity the bicycle busses were unsuccessful.
Yeah and we're stupid! Where I live in the 70's we had electric trolley buses everywhere and a good rail infrastructure. They ripped it all out in the early 80's now they haven't got the money to put it back in.
Cyclists are a nuisance basically
I love the picture of the three ladies loading or unloading their bikes, all dressed immaculately in skirt suits and high heels and with coiffured hair! I remember the days when when people used to take the trouble to dress well to go to work. Now they would all be in hoodies, tracky bottoms and ugly white trainers! Not all things in life have changed for the better.
Marion
I once saw an ex-london Double Decker kitted out for moving bikes around. It was used for mountain biking events I believe. You took them through the second set of doors, and there were no seats on the botton, just bike racks. Think it had room for 25 but could get away with a few more. Could imagine they'd be very limited on where they could go with it.
I lived in Dartford & saw these buses in the Bus Garage at the time, I would have been about 8 then, visited the tunnel before it was even open, my god I feel old 😂😂 well done on the amount of views this has received 👍👍
I recall that Strachans was not actually a London - based company but was located (in 1964, at any rate) in Hamble, close to Southampton.
FAO commentator - the name Strachan is pronounced either Strackan or Strawn, depending on the individual!
Id previously thought the bodywork was by Longwell Green
Strachans did some very good customised coachbuilding. They designed the body for the Sadler Pacerailer for the railways, a good idea that deserved a better fate (there are a couple of videos on it elsewhere on UA-cam).
i rode my bike from chelsfield village, to go thru the tunnel on the first weekend it was open. i was the only person on the bus - in both directions...................
Here in Christchurch, New Zealand, just North of the city's Northern suburbs, there is one of our w-i-d-e braided rivers, The Waimakariri. Nowadays there is a modern big solid concrete "motorway bridge" and as per a "freeway" no bikes or horses are allowed on the Motorway itself. The nearby old original 'main road' bridge still in daily use, carries both cars and bicycles use it normally. However on those occasions when the river turns from a half dry babbling brook, into a raging mess of pounding flood-waters, spreading from bank-to-bank, authorities close the old Main Road Bridge (as a precaution, in case it ever lets go, and heads out for a swim in the Pacific !). They arrange a system of free buses or vans to ferry cyclists and their bikes across the river, using the Motorway bridge, with places at each end for cyclists.
cycle busses are slowly making a come back in the uk, manly in essex and tendering. could start to see these come back, all be it newer models
Interesting mini documentary on this short lived service. I was aware of these 'cycle buses' after seeing a photo of one in 'London Buses in Camera' by John A. Gray. Did wonder what became of the vehicles. Some photos here never seen before and in colour.
Fascinating stuff. I love these little known gems of info. BTW - how does one get a bike across these days with the service you describe (book in advance, cycle to a booth etc.)? Also, getting back, which is via the bridge of course, is equally problematic; and I wouldn't want to be on a bike amongst all of those vehicles coning down after leaving the tunnel and bridge!
There's still a shuttle service for both directions - www.gov.uk/dartford-crossing-bike for all the details, but the short version is ordinary bikes can just turn up and use the dedicated call point. Large groups & non-standard bikes can advance call, and make arrangements.
@@RedHillian Many thanks Tom, the extra detail is much appreciated!
Nice video! These were easily just about the weirdest buses LT ever operated, and they were no strangers to oddballs.
Best pictures I've ever seen of these weird contraptions. Also the only Ford double deckers ever?
Fascinating vid. Thanks.
l remember the Land Rover system, plus the tanker convoys..l only used the tunnel during that time when riding a motorcycle from Southend to Brands-hatch racing circuit…Many years….another tunnel plus a bridge…..later, l used it everyday to travel to work……it was a complete nightmare…
Subscribed! Very interesting video
Fascinating
I love bizarre pointless designs that actually get made! 😊
I had no Idea this crazy looking bike bus even existed, from the thumbnail I was wondering just what on earth i was looking at!! 😅 I suppose ironically that service should be brought back due to cycling becoming more popular. Interesting video 👍
No point introducing special services for today's cyclists. They deliberately won't use it!
@@tooleyheadbang4239 🤣🤣 yeah you're probably right.
Must have been hard work pedaling that along 😀
I am from/living in Liverpool, as we have The River Mersey, our under river train service lets cyclists use them and the same on The Mersey Ferries. Yes we have Tunnel buses yet no cycle use on them as we have alternative travel options. I never knew of this short lived service for Dartford Tunnel, it was innovative yet very obvious that they did no marketing before hand.
Would be great if you could do a documentary on the Alexander M type a coach 20 years ahead of its time
I have just learned that there are land rovers that can take you through the Dartford tunnel . It's a graeat news ! I never knew
Anyone else came to this insightful video and was intrigued by the thumbnail because they thought the bus was powered by passengers pedalling it from the upper deck?
No, probably just you.
I admit wondering about that when I read 'cycle bus', then thought it might actually be driving through water, maybe as a one-off stunt for an advert. Then decided to just watch the video to find out.
Just wondering why bicycle commuters from Thurrock to Dartford favour kitten heels?
Bridge make more sense and are easier to maintain and safer. This is why the tunnels were not initially used for transport. They were water ways.
I think the main issue is integration with the rest of the transport system since if I had try to go from most places in north Kent to south Essex via public transport it recommends I go via London on the train if when the lower Thames crossing is built there is a north to south rail line I think you’d get more people on that because it avoids London as it’s set up for 2 main routes of …Gillingham, Chatham, Rochester, Strood, higham, (crossing) east tilbury, Stanford- le- hope, Pitsea …. Or … snodland, halling cuxton, Strood, higham (crossing) east tilbury, Stanford- le- hope, Pitsea ….
Freaking Brilliant
What a bus.. ❤
This bus is dymbolic of how screwed up the 4dd looked to any bus nerd watching
A cycle bus in 1963 ! Progressive Attack!
I read that, for the new Silvertown Link Tunnel that's currently under construction, TFL are considering a similar service for cyclists. Although it's my understanding this would be in the form of a single decker with few to no seats, capacity I'd guess would be a couple of dozen
Yes that is the plan. Very annoying there was no dedicated cycle and dedicated footpath in Silvertown Tunnel plans
Good enough for a sub 👍
This is going to be tried again by TfL at the new Silvertown Tunnel
Thanks to wind rush we have a brilliant bus service
How to pronounce 'Strachans' - the builder of the bodywork of these buses? I always thought it was Strakkans, but I believe in Scotland its something like 'Strawns' ! I could be entirely wrong of course, but I've never heard it pronounced with the ch sound as in church.
I always believed it is pronounced 'Strawns' but cannot remember how I came upon this information. It came as a shock when that little firm supplied the bodies for the first batch of London Transport 'Red Arrow' high- capacity AEC 'Merlin' single-deckers in 1966. Until then, as a Londoner, to me the company was too small to be of any significance!
We obviously all have our own way of pronouncing this! I'm not Scottish but have always pronounced it as "Straw-ken".
Scot here. I would pronounce it as it appears, with ch as in loch, but Strawns is also correct.
They made the standard Austin Taxi body for years. For £10 extra, you could have the 'de-luke' Jones body instead.@@uk-martin4905
I love bonkers 60sness.
So this bus is allowed in a bus lane AND a cycle lane?
Genius.
I suppose this was as close to level entrance (raised platform) they could imagine back then?
I wish theyd bring cycle busses back or at leaset allow folding bikes on a bus for commuting
Why, though? You have a bicycle. That's faster than a bus in urban areas, even IF you obey red lights and one-way streets.
@3:00, how does a Land Rover replace buses adapted to carry bicycles?
It failed because you either want to get a bus or cycle. If you’re cycling you’re not normally at the whim of bus timetables.
the time taken to wait for the bus and loaded up gone across the unload again is prohibitive. You might as well just go by bus for the whole journey. They are talking about a bike bus on the Silvertown tunnel (because there is no provision for pedestrians or cycling) this would likely fail for equal reasons. Basically we just need provisions for pedestrians and cyclists in the damn tunnel!
They built the bridge after the second tunnel . Remember the bike buses.
So.... The Silvertown tunnels are being built, starting at Silverrown on the Norf' side and termination next to the Dartford tunnels southern entrance.
So.... They recently announced a new bus service will run through the tunnels.
Im fairly sure they said the busses will carry bicycles....
What goes around, comes around...
I believe the Silvertown Tunnel will come out near the southern end of the Blackwall Tunnels not the Dartford Crossing.
@@Keith-lj7bz sorry Keith, quite right. i stand corrected.
🚌🚲😊👍
Pedestrians cannot pass. So some people use a clapped out bike to commute across for FREE. DartX needs a dedicated motorcycle and bus lane!
Yeah, but bus lanes kill traffic flow. You don't want it cut down to one lane in each direction for cars when the bridge is closed on windy days.
Plus, of course, using the crossing north to south on a motorbike is basically suicide due to all the footballers, Arabs, and other twatheads with more money than brains not bothering to indicate or even check if there's space before changing lanes.
IF there were regular Buslines driving through the Tunnel anyway: Solution 1: Put a Bikerack on the Backwall of them, Problem solved, if you don't have more than 6Bikes/crossing. Solution 2: hook a Trailer onto the regular Buses and get a Person each End of the Tunnel to unhook it and hook it back up onto the next Bus going back...
Buses don't tend to have tow bars in this country. Nor do they have bike racks.
And since both ends of the crossing hook up to the M25, I don't think there's a bus route through it either.
@@Skorpychan Well I see. I'm swiss and never been to England, so I didn't know that.
I'm just used to Buses having a Bikerack at the end here, tough it's of limited use as they can only take 6 Bikes.Almost all swiss Buses have a Trailercoupler at the back and in our mountainous Regions often take a Trailer along for various purposes or even a Bustrailer to double up the number of Passengers to be transported...
So, sorry for my Ignorance, it was just the obvious for me to suggest, because I see it everyday here and it's normal here. Have a nice Day!
@@Skorpychan P.s.: Sorry for abrupt ending the Message, I'm cooking and trying not to burn it...
Greetings from Switzerland!😎
@@samuelbhend2521 There's no point having a bike rack on a bus in britain; someone would steal your bike, or leave it lying in the street after pulling it off to remove theirs.
Bicycles are also faster than buses through urban areas, especially with bus lanes.
And trailers on buses wouldn't go around tight corners.
For longer trips with bicycles, you use a train (much faster) or load it into your car. Or strap it to the outside of your car, where it gets rattled around and bent by the wind, loses chain oil almost instantly, and causes so much drag you might as well have not brought it with you and just bought one at your destination instead.
this could be revised its not a bad idea
Yet another example of a good idea that failed in practical terms
And dont even get me started about lack of foresight into modern times for the dartboard crossings
Cheaper sending a taxi 🏴✌️
In the UK, we ban cycling through tunnels, in proper countries, like The Netherlands, they build tunnels exclusively for bikes!
The uk ban it because most cyclists here are a danger to themselves...
It's basically a motorway tunnel with high-speed traffic, narrow lanes, and little air movement that isn't pushed by vehicles.
I wonder who did the business case for that.
Public transport put service to the public first in those days, some routes subsidising others. Bean counters did not have the sway they have these days.
@@almac2598 What you call bean counters have a duty to make sure that public money is not being wasted either. Think how much of that could have been diverted to services that might actually have been of significantly more value to the people of London.
@@TheEulerID 🤣🤣
@@almac2598 Glad to see you see the funny side wasting large amounts of money on non-viable public services.
@@TheEulerID As I said, in those days the idea was to serve the public, these days all Khan wants to do is rob the public to squander it elsewhere. I used to project manage, all mine came in on cost and time, usually after I had sacked the bean counters who added no value to the team.
Curious bus. Why didn't they at least install a door so that passengers wouldn't fall out?
Passengers had common sense in those days.
In the 1960s most buses, including all London Regents and Routemasters, had open rear entrances with steep curved stairs leading direct to them. Times have changed!
Ve video is ve best ving I've seen for a wile. People from Furrock will miss ve service.
Very interesting....you can tell in the 60s that dissabled people weren't really catered for as much as they are now, such a thing could exist today actually..with minor modification of course
A thought that briefly occurred to me, but then I realised - cyclists.
Now you mention it, there's very little provision for disabled cyclists in London.
We demand...@@PhillipBicknell
Both interesting and enjoyable. BUT this side of the Atlantic we say 'titbit' and not 'tidbit'. Another sad example of American cultural imperialism.
Like most cycling projects , a waste of time and money . See no expense spared barely used cycle lanes for details .
Did they run 24 hours?
What a fabulous nation you once were. Diversity and international finance capital has destroyed you.
Americans say "tid bit" brits say "tit bit". I enjoyed this until i heard that.
1:00 "These noo coaches ver ve first o ver type in the world". WTF
firty free founsand pounds a moonf
I beg to differ. In 1960's East London it would've been pronounced thus.... "Fifty fahsend pahnds a munf"
I thank you.
Nineteen Sixty FREE? Do English People no longer pronounce TH as TH but F? It's THREE NOT FREE. Ride THROUGH them not FROO them.
I can tell you've never encountered an accent before, then. Go pahk your cah in the yahd, perhaps?
A classic waste of taxpayer's money
Wasn't it funded through toll fees not taxes?
were they? straight off the bat when the tunnel opened? Either way the public paid for them. Ill-conceived idea with no trial runs to gauge the perceived need and then specified completley unique vehicles mounted on a lorry chassis.....couldnt make it up
@@Keith-lj7bz
Three is three not free speak properly!
Hi!
I'm Autistic and so do suffer with pronunciations from time to time.
Apologies for any upset caused!
Maybe you need to learn how English speakers speak?
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th-fronting
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/an-increasing-number-of-british-people-don-t-pronounce-the-word-three-properly-these-maps-explain-why-a7079976.html
www.cambridge.org/elt/blog/2017/11/28/replacing-th-the-reverse-lisp/#:~:text=A%20reverse%20lisp%20to%20'f,they%20pronounce%20three%20like%20tree.
@@JackStackhouseYou speak absolutely fine! There's no need to listen them.
@Colin It's called having an accent. Learn to be a decent human being.
@@JackStackhouse Keep up the great work! You speak clearly and everything you say is interesting and easy to follow.