High school computer science teacher here -- Kids come from elementary school and know some "advanced" stuff like algorithms and a bit of computational thinking and maybe some block code in Scratch, etc. But they don't know the useful basics like the difference between when to use Word or PowerPoint, how to use punctuation symbols like brackets or underscores, when to single- or double-click. It's maddening how all these basic skills have been taken over by iPads in the classroom.
i have to ask do they also not know the difference between google docs and google slides or is it just an unfamiliarity with microsoft office. it’s hard for me to imagine a middle schooler that can use scratch but not the google suite.
@@BarginsGalore Google too. They can type something up, but my point is that they don't know that Word/Docs would be better for typing a letter or report -- so I have high schoolers who type up assignments all landscape at 28 point font over multiple slides. Every time. It's mindboggling how it's their go-to if they have to put words onto the screen.
Proper typing technique doesn't really matter for speed. There are people who only use 1 finger on their right up to 170wpm. The only thing that matters for speed is how much you practice for speed specifically proper technique is just there to make sure your wrists stay intact when you're 50+, and as a bonus it gets you to 40-60wpm relatively quickly, which is more than enough for most tasks
The covid dumbness is so relatable. I remember, when I got it, I was having trouble figuring out how to pay rent, because the invoice was formatted in a non-standard way. After that, i was just generally a bit dim. Being in a technical profession, I would stare at my work, not knowing how to do it, and get exhausted trying. All the while, I knew the things weren't overly difficult. I was just a little dim. I'm glad I was able to take time off until I got better. It ended up taking months.
"How Google-able is that?" is a legit thing my partner who is a teacher considers when she's planning curriculum. How to look up info and how to spot trash info is way more useful.
I'm with Luke on this one, my black belt level Google-Fu is exactly how I know a bunch of things and can often fix problems. The first step to fixing any issue is getting good at asking the right questions.
@@brendago4505 We are not expected to know everything. even "experts" are missing some stuff in their profession. what we should know is the right way to ask so we can obtain answers.
Also have to ask how many operating systems/ programs actually care about ZIP - for the most part OS and programs these days seem to transparently unzip on demand so the zip is treated just as folder anyway.
I do think that people should be taught the idea of files and folders. A while ago a WAN show talked about how the younger generation (that grows up with dumbed down ipads and Chromebook) doesn't really know what a file or folder is. Then they start doing actual work, like real work on an actual computer and not a toy, and then they are worthless at it
Totally. Almost none of my employees understand basic file management. So when they have to download or organize files they’re lost. Trying to guide them to finding a file is painful. This should be computers 101
My typing class was my second least favorite class in junior high, after the gym class where I got bullied. I was not a very good or fast typer at all when I started that class. They had these plastic things that you put over the keyboard and your hands so you can't look at your hands, and I struggled so much with it. I can understand why people wouldn't want to learn how to type "correctly", but as a programmer, I'm definitely glad I did.
I was kinda a shit typed until I started programming, so for me it's the otherway around, I think if you need to type fast you will eventually learn to and if you don't you just don't
I work with machines that make bleeding edge tech(tho I'm a mere devops), and I'm a filthy peck typer. Nobody cares how fast you type. Most of the work you'll be doing in a workday is wait. Wait for build, wait for tests, wait for support.
All the best typists in elementary school were the ones who played RuneScape 😂. I remember our Touch Typing class in fifth grade had a massive gulf between students who had computer access at home typing at 40wpm or higher, and a lot of students who had to focus to type "ASDFJKL;"
I never learned to touch type properly, but spending a couple of days doing touch type practice after a few years of coding has massively improved my productivity. Especially when you're in the zone, it's just so satisfying to be able to bash out code quickly
wait... this isn't a natural thing for younger generations? I mean as a millenial, typing is just second nature as we used computers on the regular. would have figured this is how the genz and forwards way as well, that they would be even faster and more knowlegable about computer stuff... Seeing as computer stuff has a even greater impact in our society!?
Luke is right. People love bitching about the younger generation too much. Its always "this generation doesn't know what this is" woop dee doo. And its always stuff that dont really matter. "The younger generation doesn't know what a pager is 😱" Every generation has their ignorance.
My thing is that we're going to keep using compressed files indefinitely. Like it would be pretty cringe not to know what a transmission in a car is and that predates the pager.
It’s half true. Different areas of computer literacy are down as automation and optimization took manual steps out of the equation. It’s now to the point where the best racer doesn’t need to know one bit how the engine works, if that makes any sense.
I would actually blame parts about the youths inability to use computers on Google. It has become pretty much impossible to Google anything. Every search result is just blog posts designed to waste your time for ad revenue.
When Linus and Luke were talking about if someone had submitted their high school portfolio with their job application I was just sitting here thinking, "Is that not how Jake Tivy was hired?"
Born 2003, my programmer dad taught me to touch type (well, he impressed upon me how important it was and directed me to a touch typing website). I'm actually on a mechanical engineering course at the moment, and most of my classmates I would not trust to unzip a .zip, hell some of them even struggle with the concept of basic file management for our CAD projects.
Joined a course for CAD construction and I was surprised that people younger than me seem to struggle more with some basic stuff one would do on computer. I was sure that younger generation (gen z and forward,) would have a much better grasp of software usage and figure things out quickly. As well as typing, than someone like me who is an old millenial. Aren't kids using computers today, or playing around with softwares. New generation don't use keyboards? I'm hella confused!
@FlashySenap I think the big divide is in the paradigm shift from desktops and laptops to phones and tablets. My little sister has a laptop, but she only really uses it to play the sims, and does pretty much everything on her tablet. I've also noticed that, while my father knows infinitely more about software than me, he does struggle with his phone sometimes (he usually blames bad UI design), and the things he's struggling with seem blatantly obvious to me, as someone who's had a smartphone pretty consistently since I was 12 or 13.
I will say, basic file management has always been a problem. The number of programs which makes you drill down 15-20 folder to get to data is obscene. I worked on a piece of software 10+ years ago which had log files in four different locations and some were duplicate logs just wasting gigs of space. So no, it wasn't always better in the old days.
@@memoryfoam2285 "he usually blames bad UI design" That's such a programmer move lmao
2 місяці тому
Nobody taught me to type. And I never learned touch-typing. Why would I need to, I'm plenty fast enough. Yes, non touch-typing doesn't mean hunt-and-peck. The world is *NOT* black and white.
One of my go to stories of saving someone wasted time was at an IT gig I just recently left, a user complained that the accounts payable software when she was voiding invoices would sometimes take a long time for some accounts and not others to load their invoices. The reason? It was looking for already voided invoices as part of the search so some clients who've had hundreds of invoices over the years would take forever due to compression (and this software annoyingly being only single threaded) and I showed her a button that ignored them. She went into the CFO's office and showed him the button and he said he uses that constantly. She then told him we've wasted 10s of thousands of dollars on this issue as she's been having this problem for 7 years. The invoices load instantaneously now.
Running an executable from a zip file will _always_ require it to be uncompressed. When you run it without manually decompressing it your computer just decompresses it on the fly, so you're only saving a couple of seconds and you'll start _losing_ time if you keep running the same program that way over and over.
@@deadair32101 Where the uncompressed file is stored-on disk or in memory-might differ depending on the application, but the executable is always being uncompressed before being run.
I'm honestly the most tech savvy person I know and while logically everything Linus said about references makes sense, I never put two and two together on not needing to extract single compressed executables. It's just always been such an easy task to extract a file that I never questioned the 3.5 seconds I could be saving. 🤣
Depends on whether you need to run the executable more than once. When you run an executable from within a zip, it is extracted to a temp folder, so if you run it multiple times, you are extracting it multiple times and storing multiple copies in the temp folder.
As a high school student, one of my key problems with modern education is that they *can* teach what zip files are, but people DONT KNOW HOW TO GOOGLE! SO LITTLE PEOPLE IN MY SCHOOL ACTUALLY BOTHER TO GOOGLE HOW TO FIX THINGS. It's genuinely super annoying Along with this, I believe a key problem modern day students is so little have a "complex" machine accessible to them. Schools now use Chromebooks because they're easy to use, but now students dont get the opportunity to have first hand experience on how to debug and solve their problem.
What do you mean don't know how to google? You just google and find the answer? I was certain that younger generations would be a lot more tech savvy than us old millenials :S
@@FlashySenapYou'd be surprised. If you are a teenager or in your early twenties and you go to some sort of school or university, most of the students at those schools, at least in the US, are practically braindead when it comes to understanding basic software functionality. When I used the term "Windows" around one of my flatmates, she genuinely thought I was referring to the glass squares that you look through and had no idea that it was an operating system. I then told her that it was an "operating system" that most computers use, and she didn't understand what that meant either. As a member of Gen Z, I think Gen Z is just as dumb with tech as the previous generations... it's just for different reasons, and the next generation will likely also be incredibly stupid, just for a new reason.
This is what worries me. Deeply. How is anyone supposed to go from "there's an app for that" on their completely locked down device to kernel developer?
Learning how to learn is one of the most important things to teach but one of the hardest things to really internalize without taking the time to do it. The best you can do is help people learn when they come to you with issues in the future so they can build their skillset.
@@FlashySenap Yep. It doesn't help that a lot of kids have their own iPad or tablet and phone and a school Chromebook. So while they may be "savvy" on how to use to use them for media consumption, most of them don't really know how to use them past social media apps. There's a big difference between being a social media app power user vs understanding how the device works.
(About the topic around the start) I'm a younger millennial who spent 5 years in Uni for my degree, and kept in contact with some of the post-grad students who stuck around and continued to teach even after I was gone. Apparently, many Gen Z don't even get the idea of "folders", because the way they've interacted with computers all their lives, that concept has been abstracted away by apps. Who needs to sort documents into the right folder within My Documents when the oldest version of Windows you can remember using is Win 7, which had a pretty good search box built in! Anyways, Word will just show you a list of the last documents you worked on, so who even knows _where_ they're stored? And those who used iPads as their primary OS... So many Gen Z actually just haven't been exposed to computing concepts even just us younger Millennials take as a given, simply because tech got too good at usability and abstracted away too many of the operational details
My theory is that there's a sweet spot for computer literacy for people who grew up in the 80s until the early 2000s. Around that time having a computer at home became affordable, but they were terrible and janky to use. You had to do a lot of problem solving and naturally picked up skills. Things probably peaked when internet access became widespread and people could suddenly easily self-educate. Post-smartphone this kind of widespread tinkering with tech just stopped and we're now seeing the results.
As someone that just left middle school we had a class that everyone took unless you were a band kid where we typed for 5 minutes at the beginning and would take a speed test at the end. In first grade we would spend time learning to type on keyboards. I was very annoyed in elementary school when they would spend hours yapping about online security and how to find reliable information since I knew it, but they did spend time teaching us this stuff.
I entierly agree with Luke, creating a system to teach people how to propely look up information would be really good. As a CompSci student I'll see other students struggeling with stuff they can look up within 2 seconds if they knew what to look for and how.
I had to fight older generations (especially my parents) to be allowed to explore and play with computers and I'm 25. Don't judge people for not knowing things because you don't know why they don't know it.
Was there judgment? Personally I'm worried that there will come a point where it's impossible to become a kernel developer. I don't see how you would transition to that from touching colorful pictures on a fully locked down device. How would anyone ever get interested in how something works and persist long enough to figure it out if they can't tinker with it?
In the UK, and especially wales, a lot of colleges (students 16-18 years old typically) have started including a mandatory digital literacy certificate on some more technical qualifications. It covers how to use Google advanced search, how to evaluate a source for provenance, how to organise files, how to use email, Teams and other forms of digital communication, how to put together a presentation/website (depending on the level), and some basic knowledge of cybersecurity.
that certificate is painfully boring for anyone who already understands how to do it all. my college stupidly decided that a computing class would do it and we all hated it a lot, maybe it would go down better with people who don't know a whole lot about computers
@post_human_luden I completely agree, I got into engineering through my interest in computers and it was painful having to do the digital literacy qualification.
Windows nowadays makes very little distinction between folders and zip files. The fact that you can just open most compressed archives within Windows explorer means that most people would never really understand that they're not just opening a weird folder. You can also run files normally from within the compressed archive as far as the user is concerned, because windows just extracts a file if you need to use just that file. The little dialog box that asks if you want to extract all isn't really going to register in most people's heads
My favorite part of this video is Linus realizing 2 minutes into his example that its niche and proves the opposite of his point so he scrambles to make it work for him.
Computer Keyboard Typing was a thing they taught us in public schools. Also Comp Ed & Software Apps courses was and still is offered as elective courses, rather than being required. There are a lot of tech-savvy Gen-Z people who don't know what or how some Technologies work, especially office equipment (ie: Fax Machines & Photocopiers), or they don't know how to use a computer, because they only used smartphones.
I'm 25 and my school actually taught how to type fast around 12 years ago! The school wasn't even specialised in IT, but we even had intro to programming, photo editing and basics of working with databases (+ working with Microsoft Office apps, which is probably taught more commonly). I never realised it wasn't common 😅
I work in IT at a K-12 school district in the US. I can tell you we definitely do still teach typing, especially at the elementary level because the kids have to type their responses for state testing. However, the vast majority of our students use voice to text or the onscreen touch keyboard. When it comes to something like a zip file, it's very unlikely any student in the US is using a PC or Mac. Most districts are exclusively using Chromebooks or iPads for students. Our district even gives teachers Chromebooks as their primary device. Considering most parents don't have a computer anymore at home because they get on the internet with their phones or tablets, these kids will probably never see a PC until they get into the work force.
I work at a state college and many of the incoming freshman lack basic computer literacy knowledge and skills. They also lack basic reading and listening comprehension. I don't know how these students even made it into college with how bad they are.
Im doing a digital support and services T level and they are teaching how to find good sources of information and know to trust it so it does get taught but not in regular education
My only typing classes were in the first grade and I didn't have to use computers regularly until high school. I eventually had to type enough I learned the hard way to type correctly so hearing people at LMG doing it wrong isn't all shocking Edit: just to clarify I'm only 25 I just had a lot of anti computer teachers lol
That's nuts dude. My school, computer class started at 3rd grade, just familiarization courses really. Every year it would be a little more involved. 7th grade involved a program designed to increase your typing speed, and we started getting computer only assignments, meaning they had to be typed/completed on the computer.
I used computers in 5th grade, an apple IIe, I didn't have a typing class until 1986. I also learned cursive, home economics (check writing, balancing bills, cooking), woodshop, metalshop, electricity class, small gas engines, auto-mechanics, and hunter safety course as well. (meaning they taught you how to survive.)
@@jottenmiller I'm 53. My daughter is 25, and she learned those things like you did.....but the kids now don't. My younger brother has school age kids, they're not really taught anything much now, except they all want to go viral and be an influencer, which makes me laugh. Oh, and I know what a woman is.
I do think knowing what zip file is, matters*. Its part of being computer literate that gives basis for using it and other features. A lot of emails have attached zip files. Same goes for many documents in a cloud. It being uni or work, it will come up sooner or later.
I feel like the late 90s to early 00s kids really ended up with the best of both worlds. We were juuust before the big mobile tech boom (i.e. pre iPhone) yet just after the Internet explosion.
Regarding typing speed, I've always typed with two fingers and can honestly do so at a relatively fast rate. I might learn the proper way to do it at some point, but it honestly works for me right now.
In the UK my entire education we was drilled on how to find reliable info every time was using computers always made sure we were checking at least 3 sources
We had computer literacy classes back in late 90's, and that's where I learned about keyboard home keys and zip files. Later batches didn't have that course anymore. And i realized the same thing: younger generations type with just their index fingers.
We had these things called "Informed Citizens" that was a research project that we were assigned 3 times in high school. It had a focus on finding quality information and getting up to date on certain issues, it's a good idea in theory. However the time needed for the teacher to thoroughly look through 45 students projects while grading all the regular stuff, and still having a life wasn't possible. So in practice it just didn't work.
I still would bring the binder and add the 'online' 640x480 version to the full 8K colour-calibrated printouts that are not online anywhere. They get stolen anyways if you put good art online. (even if you watermark it)
I drove my teacher insane when we had a computers course in middle school. they had us do typing exercises, and I held my hands in the WASD position instead of home row. they would constantly walk over and complain to me about it. I still don't type home row, it feels so unnatural. I really have never seen much of an issue with my typing speed. Sure maybe if I needed to go to 90 wpm+, but im happy with 70.
I don't hold a pen the normal way and teachers used to put these triangle things onto my pens to get me to hold it "correctly" but I didn't and just ended up with little bruises on my fingers. It's really weird why they try to teach a correct way to do something when it doesn't really matter. If it's comfortable for you and you can type/write what difference does it make to anybody else lol
@@FlashySenapit's the middle row of keyboard letters (ASDF and so forth). there's usually notches on F and J to show where your index fingers should be, when you touch type
I would argue that people need to learn what a compressed folder is, not on its own, but as part of getting a basic understanding of how to distinguish file types. Both by extension and by the "file type" column in file explorer.
in addition to bringing back teaching kids about how to type and do it well enough instead of pecking.. i think we should bring back cursive as well. they last taught it 23 years ago when i was 8.. for that one year.. and never again.. i cant write it anymore its been so long but i can still read it.
computer literacy class is a required thing by my school system. you need to take at least one STEM class, and that's the lowest level. and I was required to take it in middle school. we learned how to edit videos with windows movie maker, did typing lessons, edit audio with audacity, how to code in HTML, etc. that was the coolest class ever and I hope more schools start mandating it. it was only about 6-7 years ago but the teachings of that class still stuck with me. such a great class
I loved my typing (only) course in my middle school. We had half the class using blueberry imacs and the other half using old (idk the model) IBMs that still ran programs off 5.25-inch floppies. We'd be drilled in typing with the teacher randomly coming around with a manila file folder to cover our hands to make sure we weren't looking at the keyboard. Thank you Mr. Acker.
when was this. never experienced this. we never practice typing speed or skill. we just typed as speed would come naturally as we typed more. we focused more on the project or assignment at hand.
I've always been terrible at type training software, I almost always hunt and peck for those. But, If I am writing(typing) creatively I type correctly, sometimes I look at the keyboard, sometimes I don't. But I do it right. Granted when I'm writing creatively I only do 250 to 800 words/hr but the bottleneck is the process of the creation. Also my mom got a typing game for her laptop and I genuinely greatly appreciated it, as even my dysgraphic uncoordinated ass got good enough at typing from that to pass the typing class no problem. Plus It was a very genuinely sweet gesture to try and get me a game and teach me a skill at once.
My highschool had a 2 semester long course called "Career and Life Management". It was a self paced, fully online course that was mandatory to graduate. It was supposed to teach time management, career planning, communication, self reflection, strategies for knowing when your mental health or physical health needs professional attention, and other important topics. The problem is it was a self paced online "pass/fail" course. Students generally don't give a shit when it comes to actually learning this kind of material, they just blitz through it asap. My school also had 3 years worth of financial management courses that included accounting, investments, budgeting, an entire month spent practising filing taxes, plus a bunch of other more finance/business related study that would be a great foundation for financial literacy. A grand total of 5 students enrolled across all 3 courses, so they got the same teacher and stuck all 3 grades into the same lessons at the same time. Yet every year I hear complaints from old friends or classmates on social media on how "school never taught taxes!". You can't really teach meaningful subjects to the majority of high schoolers because they don't care or are lazy.
On ZIP files, I’ve noted newer OS use a folder-type icon for the file…which I see as potentially confusing. I remember when the icon was essentially a c-clamp on files.
My careers planning class was the only class where I got a C on, because it had almost 0 direction or expectation so I basically had no idea what to do or what to look for
as someone who works in highschool educattion, teaching stuff like the differnece between zips and compressed file types vs teaching stuff about how to research propperly, how to try and determine if an article is biased or not or even basics like how to use standard ish office softwares and emails etc means that zip and comprssed files wouldnt really matter as the kids that want to know will already understand the kids that dont care wont actively listen in most cases anyway. although i do think stuff like type speed needs to be practiced because ive seen kids that can write fill essays easyily and are super articulate but then cant type fast enough on a computer and it slows down their entire process
Im on a CS Degree in my finial year and literally yesterday i had someone get confused about zips. They were trying to copy and paste out of a zip and im blaming windows 11 because they have made it less clear that the "folder" your in is a Zip.
I got taught typing in school, but simultaniousely i find the posture of having your hands like that extremely uncomfortable on 99% of desks because i have un-naturally long fingers, so i developed this very weird hybrid way of typing inbetween pick n point and traditional typing, it always throws people off and i love it
To be fair... the problem described at 5:20 only happens because Windows' File Explorer has such a silly workflow for compressed folders where uncompress is not the main action but behind a right click.
Is it a problem, though? For the vast majority of people, there will be documents or maybe images zipped. It is irrelevant for most that this is compressed; the folder workflow makes sense. (Even if I personally disable this behaviour)
I type decently fast for not typing "properly" (I use more than two fingers but not all 10, and certainly not consistent the same fingers for the same letters) I am however basically never limited by typing speed, since I am either limited by not knowing what I want to type (basically all longer text), or I am programming and the IDE is auto completing most of it anyway (and I am again limited by how fast I can think) yes, in theory proper 10 finger typing would be faster when copying large amounts of text than my style of typing. ...in practice copy and paste beats even the fastest writers by a lot.
When I started as a developer my colleague said I should learn to touch type (I am a two finger typer). We had a competition to see who was a faster typer and he was quite dismayed when we were about the same speed 😂 the big time savers for me at work are learning shortcuts. Absolutely huge. The amount of actual typing for coding these days is quite small.
I think the reason they SHOULD make computer literacy things a mandatory course that they teach again in schools is because people old or young nowadays don't generally even have the common sense of Googling how to do something or learn what something is. That's why you have "Tech" content creators on Tik Tok blowing up, because people have no idea that things like shortcuts even exist on their computers, hell, people don't even know wtf type of connection port is ON THEIR PHONE CHARGERS THAT THEY USE EVERY DAY...
Now that you can "open" a zip file and look at the content, this is a lot more likely. I've accidentally done this not realizing I haven't unzipped something and was confused why some stuff weren't working quite right. Back in the day where you must unzip before using the content, knowing the need and the how to unzip is a lot more common.
Considering the ridiculous requirements companies have for positions I'm pretty sure nearly everyone actually getting those positions lied about at least a third of their resume, and I absolutely do not fault them for it. At this point it's practically sensible job-seeking advice to embellish your skills and experience in your resume to a substantial degree because most of the time the company is not going to background-check anything as long as you show that you can actually do the job.
Think about cars - same thing. Everyone drives them but only some people know how they work. To 90% of the people on the road, they might as well be powered by dark magic.
People work from their ability and sometimes their ability doesn't go further than that but it's not a big deal because they make it work for them and that is what matters
Luke is right about basically teaching a "common sense class" for how to sift through the garbage results in searches. I was around when Google finally exploded into ubiquity and at about 6 years old I remember being shown how to use Search Engines (lol) in Computer Class on our Windows 98 machines. That truly is the modern equivalent of "computer literacy class." Whoever was teaching Typing 10-15-20 years ago is who would be teaching this now.
At this point, the world is running on computers. Computer literacy is essential, to have any understanding of the world we live in. But learning how to use a desktop computer is less relevant than ever.
There are several 'common sense' classes that are put on by organizations that are less tech-oriented and are more of a social service. They're so vital to communities that have limited access to the internet, so when they do browse through they know how to efficiently find information. They're also great for media literacy in schools and teaching students to root out real news from BS. There could be tech beginners classes, but I think most people assume all young people know how to use computers.
Graduated with my associates and brought my resume and portfolio to my first 3 job interviews in my field. (Was top of my class btw) 1st job didn't want to know about it cuz he said the last interview he had one and he didn't feel (based on theirs) any portfolio could be relevant. 2nd guy had 3 interviews of people from my same school, since the first guy bombed the interview he decided to just blow me off. 3rd guy looked at my stuff, liked it halfway through... Found out where I went to school and then proceeded to roast me and all my work. He had an interview the year prior of someone from my school who graduated bottom of their class. Point is I had zero inclination after that to bring anything but my resume and mention zero info about my history except skills, how long I've had them, and how I've used them in jobs prior
Holy snap that some strong bias and very unprofessional on them either way... Especially you if they turn away a good talent invididual/ candidate by accident down the line.
I remember ZIP files being a big deal in the days of dial-up being commonplace in order to keep the file sizes down so you could transfer them faster over the phone lines. I think there's a lot of factors at play with why people don't know about ZIP files (or other archival formats like RAR): * Computers with multi-gigabyte CPUs having gigabytes of memory and terabytes of storage * Gigabit download speeds being affordable for many families * Compression programs have been able to (for many years) turn compressed files into an EXE that just requires double-clicking to open up - which hides the algorithm from the end user * Modern operating systems even have the ability to handle a compressed file like a regular folder anyways - for example, double-clicking on a ZIP file in Windows 10, assuming no other software installed, simply opens it up like another folder, just sometimes in a separate File Explorer window. * The number of attachments you can add to an email and the size of files you can send has grown, as well as the storage capacity for email sites (Gmail, Hotmail/Live/Outlook, Yahoo Mail, etc)
This matters when network security is important. Which, if you have access to a company network, always matters. I often receive phishing e-mails where the attacker sends an executable/batch file pretending to be a pdf, word document or a zip file and it is none of those things. I'd argue that not only do you need to know what most common file types are and how they work but also the dangers of each file type. Of course, the Admin should have workstations and the network on a very short leash so that minimal damage can be done, but the first line is mostly always a pleb with a busy mailbox and targets to meet.
They absolutely should and you'd think it's obvious but its shocking the amount of companies and people lacking basic knowledge@@Mythicalgoon. It would probably (hopefully) be covered by a web security training course, which would be fine, so you're 100% right. But if you have a workstation connected to a company network, especially if you deal with incoming e-mails, then you need to know these things before you're let loose.
@@the.villan Tell our teachers that. i work in school IT. Our IT admins run a few phishing campaigns and its astonishing how many people fall for it. We've been doing it for a few years and usually get 50-100 staff members fall for it.
Teaching assistant here on most of the web developmenet courses on my Universtly. I teach all the basics from OOP concepts to full stack web apps that communicate with tax systems. I have the same issue with zip ing files with students. Specially in the later exam terms where worse students arrive. I recently started explaining git and github from 2nd year and so to try to solve the issue with zipping. I managed to increse the correct amount of sent projects by arround 35% For all my fellow assistents and professors if you can try this. Also you get ranked higher by atudents for teaching theme more then intended.
I agree, bring back computer literacy classes. I work with a bunch of people who use the caps lock key twice to type the only capital letter in their passwords. It blows my mind.
Basically storage is so much less of an issue than it used to be, along with internet bandwidth, download speeds etc etc that zip files are rarely needed anymore. That’s why people don’t know what they are.
I don't know why sometimes the mail client on Windows just doesn't want to send certain filetypes, so I usually just compress them in a zip folder and send that 😅
Regarding ZIP files, I wouldn't be surprised if this goes all the way back to when David Plummer wrote the first integration of ZIP files directly into Windows Explorer. The native file browser in Windows can navigate zip files nearly identically to if they were actual folders. Granted, it does give you at least some form of an indication. However, if most users are used to phones where they're rarely is the concept of folders, that (arguably easy to miss) indication that what you were hearing is, in fact, a zip file and not a folder, may be... easy to miss.
4:20 Luke, the fact that you think that not knowing what a zip file is is not going to matter is a very valid point. However consider all of the other useless garbage you learned in public school gen ed courses. I don't think being well-rounded in your earlier schooling years is a bad thing, but really a lot of places mess it up with their gen eds instead of focusing on something that the student actually enjoys doing to have them be passionate about their career
I had typing class all throughout school and I didn’t get any faster. The only experience that ever made made my typing faster was working an office/email job.
As someone who works at a school, they do have those classes... They aren't optional either, you have to take a Microsoft Office class and a computer literacy class, which does in fact cover zip files.
If you want to send anything cool you need to zip it, cab files, msi files, executables, binary files, loads of stuff gets blocked by email providers due to those kinds of attachments being considered "harmful".
Well I had a professor at university for some math course. It was kinda frustrating to see him type with 1.5 fingers when he tried to help you on the computer. He was also way past his pension age, so it amplifies the idea of someone not knowing how to use a computer. But then all of a sudden he used some shortcuts you probably never knew existed and as a bystander you would be completely lost to what was happening and it was done before you could even blink your eyes. Still not sure if it was something he did to tease students. But it always stuck to me that seeing someone type with 1 or 2 fingers may be very deceptive :)
I'm not old by any means. I was in high school in the 2010s, but I grew up with computers pretty much all my life from ones that my dad would build from random parts he got. Typing class was my least favorite class BY FAR, even though I loved computers, because I vividly remember getting yelled at by the teacher for not typing the "correct" way with the home row keys and whatnot. Granted I don't type with just my index fingers, I do type LIKE I would be using the home row, but because it wasn't the way the curriculum was taught, it was wrong. Didn't help that the lady teaching the class looked to be about as old as the first ever computer and she typed with the index finger method and she gave a demonstration on what a "good" wpm should be, and I handily beat the demonstration, but I digress.
i really only type a couple of search terms and a few sentences a week, but i would've loved learning touchtyping when i had the time to. if linus is bothered by it so much, he should probably give the employee an hour a day to learn touchtyping. really useful skill that unfortunately only enthuisiasts pick up early in life.
Hiring luke turns out to be the best decision ever. Luke has single handedly saved LTT several times
The hard R bit was the most recent one and I still cringe lol
@@JampackGaming707I still laugh about it
Yes, from Linus
@@JampackGaming707 It got a bit overblown don't you think?
@@JampackGaming707what is the hard R?
I love Dan making sure Luke wasn't getting cornered when Linux started talking about reading his resume. Good looking out, lol
High school computer science teacher here -- Kids come from elementary school and know some "advanced" stuff like algorithms and a bit of computational thinking and maybe some block code in Scratch, etc. But they don't know the useful basics like the difference between when to use Word or PowerPoint, how to use punctuation symbols like brackets or underscores, when to single- or double-click. It's maddening how all these basic skills have been taken over by iPads in the classroom.
i have to ask do they also not know the difference between google docs and google slides or is it just an unfamiliarity with microsoft office. it’s hard for me to imagine a middle schooler that can use scratch but not the google suite.
@@BarginsGalore Google too. They can type something up, but my point is that they don't know that Word/Docs would be better for typing a letter or report -- so I have high schoolers who type up assignments all landscape at 28 point font over multiple slides. Every time. It's mindboggling how it's their go-to if they have to put words onto the screen.
I had a classmate who typed using only his 2 index fingers, without looking at the keyboard and was one of the fastest 3 typers of the class.
what was his WPM
@@AceTriggerz
I can't remember. I also have no idea what my current or previous "WPM" is since I'm not being graded on it anymore (;
I was doing that when I hurt my hand at work and my boss was like "T-REX typing!" and made fun of me for the rest of the day
Im 6 finger typist 2 years ago and my wpm is 120. They say 10 fingers is better so I changed it Im 55 wpm right now 😂
Proper typing technique doesn't really matter for speed. There are people who only use 1 finger on their right up to 170wpm. The only thing that matters for speed is how much you practice for speed specifically
proper technique is just there to make sure your wrists stay intact when you're 50+, and as a bonus it gets you to 40-60wpm relatively quickly, which is more than enough for most tasks
The covid dumbness is so relatable. I remember, when I got it, I was having trouble figuring out how to pay rent, because the invoice was formatted in a non-standard way.
After that, i was just generally a bit dim. Being in a technical profession, I would stare at my work, not knowing how to do it, and get exhausted trying. All the while, I knew the things weren't overly difficult. I was just a little dim.
I'm glad I was able to take time off until I got better. It ended up taking months.
Had this also... So demoralising. Luckily my colleagues had experienced similar and were very understanding.
Oh boy! I think I caught the millennium plague again... I hope I don't get stupefied again. At least muscle weakness is back...
I haven't fully recovered from the covid mental fog, tbh
"How Google-able is that?" is a legit thing my partner who is a teacher considers when she's planning curriculum. How to look up info and how to spot trash info is way more useful.
Honestly common sense class would probably be far better than any zip file class 😂
I'm with Luke on this one, my black belt level Google-Fu is exactly how I know a bunch of things and can often fix problems. The first step to fixing any issue is getting good at asking the right questions.
yeah, for the woke generation they need it 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@brendago4505
We are not expected to know everything. even "experts" are missing some stuff in their profession.
what we should know is the right way to ask so we can obtain answers.
Also have to ask how many operating systems/ programs actually care about ZIP - for the most part OS and programs these days seem to transparently unzip on demand so the zip is treated just as folder anyway.
There Is literally nothing common sense
I do think that people should be taught the idea of files and folders. A while ago a WAN show talked about how the younger generation (that grows up with dumbed down ipads and Chromebook) doesn't really know what a file or folder is. Then they start doing actual work, like real work on an actual computer and not a toy, and then they are worthless at it
Totally. Almost none of my employees understand basic file management. So when they have to download or organize files they’re lost. Trying to guide them to finding a file is painful. This should be computers 101
My typing class was my second least favorite class in junior high, after the gym class where I got bullied. I was not a very good or fast typer at all when I started that class. They had these plastic things that you put over the keyboard and your hands so you can't look at your hands, and I struggled so much with it. I can understand why people wouldn't want to learn how to type "correctly", but as a programmer, I'm definitely glad I did.
I was kinda a shit typed until I started programming, so for me it's the otherway around, I think if you need to type fast you will eventually learn to and if you don't you just don't
I work with machines that make bleeding edge tech(tho I'm a mere devops), and I'm a filthy peck typer. Nobody cares how fast you type. Most of the work you'll be doing in a workday is wait. Wait for build, wait for tests, wait for support.
All the best typists in elementary school were the ones who played RuneScape 😂. I remember our Touch Typing class in fifth grade had a massive gulf between students who had computer access at home typing at 40wpm or higher, and a lot of students who had to focus to type "ASDFJKL;"
I never learned to touch type properly, but spending a couple of days doing touch type practice after a few years of coding has massively improved my productivity. Especially when you're in the zone, it's just so satisfying to be able to bash out code quickly
wait... this isn't a natural thing for younger generations?
I mean as a millenial, typing is just second nature as we used computers on the regular. would have figured this is how the genz and forwards way as well, that they would be even faster and more knowlegable about computer stuff... Seeing as computer stuff has a even greater impact in our society!?
Luke is right. People love bitching about the younger generation too much. Its always "this generation doesn't know what this is" woop dee doo. And its always stuff that dont really matter. "The younger generation doesn't know what a pager is 😱"
Every generation has their ignorance.
Pagers are just funny to me
My thing is that we're going to keep using compressed files indefinitely. Like it would be pretty cringe not to know what a transmission in a car is and that predates the pager.
It’s half true. Different areas of computer literacy are down as automation and optimization took manual steps out of the equation. It’s now to the point where the best racer doesn’t need to know one bit how the engine works, if that makes any sense.
I have no ignorance.
@@shanemitchell477 I hope you're saying that as a joke, everyone is ignorant about something. Usually a lot more than just one thing.
"Why am I wearing a headset? What a loser." Said while wearing a headset.
I would actually blame parts about the youths inability to use computers on Google. It has become pretty much impossible to Google anything. Every search result is just blog posts designed to waste your time for ad revenue.
When Linus and Luke were talking about if someone had submitted their high school portfolio with their job application I was just sitting here thinking, "Is that not how Jake Tivy was hired?"
Born 2003, my programmer dad taught me to touch type (well, he impressed upon me how important it was and directed me to a touch typing website). I'm actually on a mechanical engineering course at the moment, and most of my classmates I would not trust to unzip a .zip, hell some of them even struggle with the concept of basic file management for our CAD projects.
Joined a course for CAD construction and I was surprised that people younger than me seem to struggle more with some basic stuff one would do on computer. I was sure that younger generation (gen z and forward,) would have a much better grasp of software usage and figure things out quickly. As well as typing, than someone like me who is an old millenial. Aren't kids using computers today, or playing around with softwares. New generation don't use keyboards? I'm hella confused!
@FlashySenap I think the big divide is in the paradigm shift from desktops and laptops to phones and tablets. My little sister has a laptop, but she only really uses it to play the sims, and does pretty much everything on her tablet. I've also noticed that, while my father knows infinitely more about software than me, he does struggle with his phone sometimes (he usually blames bad UI design), and the things he's struggling with seem blatantly obvious to me, as someone who's had a smartphone pretty consistently since I was 12 or 13.
I will say, basic file management has always been a problem. The number of programs which makes you drill down 15-20 folder to get to data is obscene. I worked on a piece of software 10+ years ago which had log files in four different locations and some were duplicate logs just wasting gigs of space.
So no, it wasn't always better in the old days.
@@memoryfoam2285 "he usually blames bad UI design"
That's such a programmer move lmao
Nobody taught me to type. And I never learned touch-typing. Why would I need to, I'm plenty fast enough. Yes, non touch-typing doesn't mean hunt-and-peck. The world is *NOT* black and white.
One of my go to stories of saving someone wasted time was at an IT gig I just recently left, a user complained that the accounts payable software when she was voiding invoices would sometimes take a long time for some accounts and not others to load their invoices. The reason? It was looking for already voided invoices as part of the search so some clients who've had hundreds of invoices over the years would take forever due to compression (and this software annoyingly being only single threaded) and I showed her a button that ignored them. She went into the CFO's office and showed him the button and he said he uses that constantly. She then told him we've wasted 10s of thousands of dollars on this issue as she's been having this problem for 7 years. The invoices load instantaneously now.
Running an executable from a zip file will _always_ require it to be uncompressed.
When you run it without manually decompressing it your computer just decompresses it on the fly, so you're only saving a couple of seconds and you'll start _losing_ time if you keep running the same program that way over and over.
Yeah and doesn't Windows keep piling up the same executable in the folder or something?
@@MitsyWuzHere I'm not a windows user so I'm not entirely sure how they handle it, but normally it's just extracted to a temp location.
@@jefftheworld depends on the program used to open the archive.
@@deadair32101 Where the uncompressed file is stored-on disk or in memory-might differ depending on the application, but the executable is always being uncompressed before being run.
...that's what he said in the video.
Avoiding looking up trash information is very important. Agree with Luke on that. I certainly I have no idea how to do it!
7-zip unzips the entire archive to %temp% when executing an exe
I'm honestly the most tech savvy person I know and while logically everything Linus said about references makes sense, I never put two and two together on not needing to extract single compressed executables. It's just always been such an easy task to extract a file that I never questioned the 3.5 seconds I could be saving. 🤣
Depends on whether you need to run the executable more than once. When you run an executable from within a zip, it is extracted to a temp folder, so if you run it multiple times, you are extracting it multiple times and storing multiple copies in the temp folder.
People run exe’s out of a zip file? What kind of animal does that. Extract the file(s) first. Ffs
As a high school student, one of my key problems with modern education is that they *can* teach what zip files are, but people DONT KNOW HOW TO GOOGLE! SO LITTLE PEOPLE IN MY SCHOOL ACTUALLY BOTHER TO GOOGLE HOW TO FIX THINGS. It's genuinely super annoying
Along with this, I believe a key problem modern day students is so little have a "complex" machine accessible to them. Schools now use Chromebooks because they're easy to use, but now students dont get the opportunity to have first hand experience on how to debug and solve their problem.
What do you mean don't know how to google? You just google and find the answer?
I was certain that younger generations would be a lot more tech savvy than us old millenials :S
@@FlashySenapYou'd be surprised. If you are a teenager or in your early twenties and you go to some sort of school or university, most of the students at those schools, at least in the US, are practically braindead when it comes to understanding basic software functionality. When I used the term "Windows" around one of my flatmates, she genuinely thought I was referring to the glass squares that you look through and had no idea that it was an operating system. I then told her that it was an "operating system" that most computers use, and she didn't understand what that meant either. As a member of Gen Z, I think Gen Z is just as dumb with tech as the previous generations... it's just for different reasons, and the next generation will likely also be incredibly stupid, just for a new reason.
This is what worries me. Deeply. How is anyone supposed to go from "there's an app for that" on their completely locked down device to kernel developer?
Learning how to learn is one of the most important things to teach but one of the hardest things to really internalize without taking the time to do it. The best you can do is help people learn when they come to you with issues in the future so they can build their skillset.
@@FlashySenap Yep. It doesn't help that a lot of kids have their own iPad or tablet and phone and a school Chromebook. So while they may be "savvy" on how to use to use them for media consumption, most of them don't really know how to use them past social media apps. There's a big difference between being a social media app power user vs understanding how the device works.
(About the topic around the start) I'm a younger millennial who spent 5 years in Uni for my degree, and kept in contact with some of the post-grad students who stuck around and continued to teach even after I was gone. Apparently, many Gen Z don't even get the idea of "folders", because the way they've interacted with computers all their lives, that concept has been abstracted away by apps. Who needs to sort documents into the right folder within My Documents when the oldest version of Windows you can remember using is Win 7, which had a pretty good search box built in! Anyways, Word will just show you a list of the last documents you worked on, so who even knows _where_ they're stored? And those who used iPads as their primary OS...
So many Gen Z actually just haven't been exposed to computing concepts even just us younger Millennials take as a given, simply because tech got too good at usability and abstracted away too many of the operational details
My theory is that there's a sweet spot for computer literacy for people who grew up in the 80s until the early 2000s. Around that time having a computer at home became affordable, but they were terrible and janky to use. You had to do a lot of problem solving and naturally picked up skills. Things probably peaked when internet access became widespread and people could suddenly easily self-educate. Post-smartphone this kind of widespread tinkering with tech just stopped and we're now seeing the results.
In Italy to obtain a driver's license you have to know how a internal combustion engines work.
13:53 - "Why am I wearing a headset?! What a f%*king loser..." - literally wearing a headset right now as well, but ok 😂
Wrong timestamp
hes listening to himself in the podcast and isnt using the headphones in the ncix video
As someone that just left middle school we had a class that everyone took unless you were a band kid where we typed for 5 minutes at the beginning and would take a speed test at the end. In first grade we would spend time learning to type on keyboards.
I was very annoyed in elementary school when they would spend hours yapping about online security and how to find reliable information since I knew it, but they did spend time teaching us this stuff.
I entierly agree with Luke, creating a system to teach people how to propely look up information would be really good. As a CompSci student I'll see other students struggeling with stuff they can look up within 2 seconds if they knew what to look for and how.
I had to fight older generations (especially my parents) to be allowed to explore and play with computers and I'm 25. Don't judge people for not knowing things because you don't know why they don't know it.
Was there judgment? Personally I'm worried that there will come a point where it's impossible to become a kernel developer. I don't see how you would transition to that from touching colorful pictures on a fully locked down device. How would anyone ever get interested in how something works and persist long enough to figure it out if they can't tinker with it?
@@jfolzless competition for that field now that's for sure 😂
In the UK, and especially wales, a lot of colleges (students 16-18 years old typically) have started including a mandatory digital literacy certificate on some more technical qualifications. It covers how to use Google advanced search, how to evaluate a source for provenance, how to organise files, how to use email, Teams and other forms of digital communication, how to put together a presentation/website (depending on the level), and some basic knowledge of cybersecurity.
that certificate is painfully boring for anyone who already understands how to do it all. my college stupidly decided that a computing class would do it and we all hated it a lot, maybe it would go down better with people who don't know a whole lot about computers
@post_human_luden I completely agree, I got into engineering through my interest in computers and it was painful having to do the digital literacy qualification.
Windows nowadays makes very little distinction between folders and zip files. The fact that you can just open most compressed archives within Windows explorer means that most people would never really understand that they're not just opening a weird folder. You can also run files normally from within the compressed archive as far as the user is concerned, because windows just extracts a file if you need to use just that file. The little dialog box that asks if you want to extract all isn't really going to register in most people's heads
This! Microsoft is to blame
My favorite part of this video is Linus realizing 2 minutes into his example that its niche and proves the opposite of his point so he scrambles to make it work for him.
Computer Keyboard Typing was a thing they taught us in public schools.
Also Comp Ed & Software Apps courses was and still is offered as elective courses, rather than being required.
There are a lot of tech-savvy Gen-Z people who don't know what or how some Technologies work, especially office equipment (ie: Fax Machines & Photocopiers), or they don't know how to use a computer, because they only used smartphones.
I'm 25 and my school actually taught how to type fast around 12 years ago! The school wasn't even specialised in IT, but we even had intro to programming, photo editing and basics of working with databases (+ working with Microsoft Office apps, which is probably taught more commonly). I never realised it wasn't common 😅
"Trust me, Dan."
**Loses all trust**
I work in IT at a K-12 school district in the US. I can tell you we definitely do still teach typing, especially at the elementary level because the kids have to type their responses for state testing. However, the vast majority of our students use voice to text or the onscreen touch keyboard. When it comes to something like a zip file, it's very unlikely any student in the US is using a PC or Mac. Most districts are exclusively using Chromebooks or iPads for students. Our district even gives teachers Chromebooks as their primary device. Considering most parents don't have a computer anymore at home because they get on the internet with their phones or tablets, these kids will probably never see a PC until they get into the work force.
I work at a state college and many of the incoming freshman lack basic computer literacy knowledge and skills. They also lack basic reading and listening comprehension. I don't know how these students even made it into college with how bad they are.
Im doing a digital support and services T level and they are teaching how to find good sources of information and know to trust it so it does get taught but not in regular education
My only typing classes were in the first grade and I didn't have to use computers regularly until high school. I eventually had to type enough I learned the hard way to type correctly so hearing people at LMG doing it wrong isn't all shocking
Edit: just to clarify I'm only 25 I just had a lot of anti computer teachers lol
That's nuts dude. My school, computer class started at 3rd grade, just familiarization courses really. Every year it would be a little more involved. 7th grade involved a program designed to increase your typing speed, and we started getting computer only assignments, meaning they had to be typed/completed on the computer.
I used computers in 5th grade, an apple IIe, I didn't have a typing class until 1986. I also learned cursive, home economics (check writing, balancing bills, cooking), woodshop, metalshop, electricity class, small gas engines, auto-mechanics, and hunter safety course as well. (meaning they taught you how to survive.)
@@shanemitchell477 I had home economics though it was more sewing and cooking and woodshop
@@jottenmiller I'm 53. My daughter is 25, and she learned those things like you did.....but the kids now don't. My younger brother has school age kids, they're not really taught anything much now, except they all want to go viral and be an influencer, which makes me laugh. Oh, and I know what a woman is.
@@GH0STST4RSCR34MAs a 23 year old, I had typing for a few years around 5th grade
I do think knowing what zip file is, matters*. Its part of being computer literate that gives basis for using it and other features. A lot of emails have attached zip files. Same goes for many documents in a cloud. It being uni or work, it will come up sooner or later.
I feel like the late 90s to early 00s kids really ended up with the best of both worlds. We were juuust before the big mobile tech boom (i.e. pre iPhone) yet just after the Internet explosion.
In terms of understanding the technology sure, but with all the social problems it caused, my god
6:30 TIL about the zip execution thing, I work in tech and have never had to execute a file from a zip file
Regarding typing speed, I've always typed with two fingers and can honestly do so at a relatively fast rate. I might learn the proper way to do it at some point, but it honestly works for me right now.
I used hunt and peck until I memorized the keyboard and not I’m at about 110 wpm
In the UK my entire education we was drilled on how to find reliable info every time was using computers always made sure we were checking at least 3 sources
We had computer literacy classes back in late 90's, and that's where I learned about keyboard home keys and zip files. Later batches didn't have that course anymore. And i realized the same thing: younger generations type with just their index fingers.
We had these things called "Informed Citizens" that was a research project that we were assigned 3 times in high school. It had a focus on finding quality information and getting up to date on certain issues, it's a good idea in theory. However the time needed for the teacher to thoroughly look through 45 students projects while grading all the regular stuff, and still having a life wasn't possible. So in practice it just didn't work.
I still would bring the binder and add the 'online' 640x480 version to the full 8K colour-calibrated printouts that are not online anywhere. They get stolen anyways if you put good art online. (even if you watermark it)
its like teaching Access, its basically useless for most people, but if you do go on to need it, you have the skill
I drove my teacher insane when we had a computers course in middle school. they had us do typing exercises, and I held my hands in the WASD position instead of home row. they would constantly walk over and complain to me about it. I still don't type home row, it feels so unnatural. I really have never seen much of an issue with my typing speed. Sure maybe if I needed to go to 90 wpm+, but im happy with 70.
I don't hold a pen the normal way and teachers used to put these triangle things onto my pens to get me to hold it "correctly" but I didn't and just ended up with little bruises on my fingers. It's really weird why they try to teach a correct way to do something when it doesn't really matter. If it's comfortable for you and you can type/write what difference does it make to anybody else lol
what is home row?
I was never taught in school about that kind of stuff. We learned how to use HTML, Word and excel...
@@FlashySenapit's the middle row of keyboard letters (ASDF and so forth). there's usually notches on F and J to show where your index fingers should be, when you touch type
I would argue that people need to learn what a compressed folder is, not on its own, but as part of getting a basic understanding of how to distinguish file types. Both by extension and by the "file type" column in file explorer.
"This is a zip file, it shrinks file size. Ok now get the free trial for winrar and you are set for life. Ok class dismissed"
COVID really pulls a 'Flowers for Algernon' moment for so many people who get it.
I know the reference but not quote what you mean.
in addition to bringing back teaching kids about how to type and do it well enough instead of pecking.. i think we should bring back cursive as well. they last taught it 23 years ago when i was 8.. for that one year.. and never again.. i cant write it anymore its been so long but i can still read it.
computer literacy class is a required thing by my school system. you need to take at least one STEM class, and that's the lowest level.
and I was required to take it in middle school. we learned how to edit videos with windows movie maker, did typing lessons, edit audio with audacity, how to code in HTML, etc.
that was the coolest class ever and I hope more schools start mandating it.
it was only about 6-7 years ago but the teachings of that class still stuck with me. such a great class
Dam Luke 😂actually called out Linus on (if it isn’t Linus way it wrong). Luke makes a good point, a simple google search will solve it right away
LETS GO GAME PREVIEW IS BACK this is such a great part of the week
I loved my typing (only) course in my middle school. We had half the class using blueberry imacs and the other half using old (idk the model) IBMs that still ran programs off 5.25-inch floppies. We'd be drilled in typing with the teacher randomly coming around with a manila file folder to cover our hands to make sure we weren't looking at the keyboard.
Thank you Mr. Acker.
when was this. never experienced this. we never practice typing speed or skill. we just typed as speed would come naturally as we typed more. we focused more on the project or assignment at hand.
@@FlashySenap early 2000s / late 1990s for me
I've always been terrible at type training software, I almost always hunt and peck for those.
But, If I am writing(typing) creatively I type correctly, sometimes I look at the keyboard, sometimes I don't. But I do it right.
Granted when I'm writing creatively I only do 250 to 800 words/hr but the bottleneck is the process of the creation.
Also my mom got a typing game for her laptop and I genuinely greatly appreciated it, as even my dysgraphic uncoordinated ass got good enough at typing from that to pass the typing class no problem. Plus It was a very genuinely sweet gesture to try and get me a game and teach me a skill at once.
My highschool had a 2 semester long course called "Career and Life Management". It was a self paced, fully online course that was mandatory to graduate. It was supposed to teach time management, career planning, communication, self reflection, strategies for knowing when your mental health or physical health needs professional attention, and other important topics. The problem is it was a self paced online "pass/fail" course. Students generally don't give a shit when it comes to actually learning this kind of material, they just blitz through it asap. My school also had 3 years worth of financial management courses that included accounting, investments, budgeting, an entire month spent practising filing taxes, plus a bunch of other more finance/business related study that would be a great foundation for financial literacy. A grand total of 5 students enrolled across all 3 courses, so they got the same teacher and stuck all 3 grades into the same lessons at the same time. Yet every year I hear complaints from old friends or classmates on social media on how "school never taught taxes!". You can't really teach meaningful subjects to the majority of high schoolers because they don't care or are lazy.
On ZIP files, I’ve noted newer OS use a folder-type icon for the file…which I see as potentially confusing. I remember when the icon was essentially a c-clamp on files.
6:25 the program is still decompressing the file, so whether they do or not, doesn't really matter. Its not actually running from within the zip file.
My careers planning class was the only class where I got a C on, because it had almost 0 direction or expectation so I basically had no idea what to do or what to look for
@6:20, I love that Luke is being very sarcastic and Linus clearly notices while smiling at him hahaha, Such chemistry between these 2, I love it 🥰
as someone who works in highschool educattion, teaching stuff like the differnece between zips and compressed file types vs teaching stuff about how to research propperly, how to try and determine if an article is biased or not or even basics like how to use standard ish office softwares and emails etc means that zip and comprssed files wouldnt really matter as the kids that want to know will already understand the kids that dont care wont actively listen in most cases anyway. although i do think stuff like type speed needs to be practiced because ive seen kids that can write fill essays easyily and are super articulate but then cant type fast enough on a computer and it slows down their entire process
As a software developer (which is someone that literally types for a living) I can assure you, typing is not the bottleneck.
Im on a CS Degree in my finial year and literally yesterday i had someone get confused about zips. They were trying to copy and paste out of a zip and im blaming windows 11 because they have made it less clear that the "folder" your in is a Zip.
Not the best at spelling though
I got taught typing in school, but simultaniousely i find the posture of having your hands like that extremely uncomfortable on 99% of desks because i have un-naturally long fingers, so i developed this very weird hybrid way of typing inbetween pick n point and traditional typing, it always throws people off and i love it
To be fair... the problem described at 5:20 only happens because Windows' File Explorer has such a silly workflow for compressed folders where uncompress is not the main action but behind a right click.
Is it a problem, though? For the vast majority of people, there will be documents or maybe images zipped. It is irrelevant for most that this is compressed; the folder workflow makes sense. (Even if I personally disable this behaviour)
I type decently fast for not typing "properly" (I use more than two fingers but not all 10, and certainly not consistent the same fingers for the same letters)
I am however basically never limited by typing speed, since I am either limited by not knowing what I want to type (basically all longer text),
or I am programming and the IDE is auto completing most of it anyway (and I am again limited by how fast I can think)
yes, in theory proper 10 finger typing would be faster when copying large amounts of text than my style of typing.
...in practice copy and paste beats even the fastest writers by a lot.
Linus: "All I do is write and do emails! If I was slow at this the company would shut down!"
*spend 4 minutes trying to open the correct attachment*
This talk looked like Luke and Linus some heat here and there but I like how calm they are
When I started as a developer my colleague said I should learn to touch type (I am a two finger typer). We had a competition to see who was a faster typer and he was quite dismayed when we were about the same speed 😂 the big time savers for me at work are learning shortcuts. Absolutely huge. The amount of actual typing for coding these days is quite small.
I think the reason they SHOULD make computer literacy things a mandatory course that they teach again in schools is because people old or young nowadays don't generally even have the common sense of Googling how to do something or learn what something is. That's why you have "Tech" content creators on Tik Tok blowing up, because people have no idea that things like shortcuts even exist on their computers, hell, people don't even know wtf type of connection port is ON THEIR PHONE CHARGERS THAT THEY USE EVERY DAY...
Now that you can "open" a zip file and look at the content, this is a lot more likely. I've accidentally done this not realizing I haven't unzipped something and was confused why some stuff weren't working quite right.
Back in the day where you must unzip before using the content, knowing the need and the how to unzip is a lot more common.
Considering the ridiculous requirements companies have for positions I'm pretty sure nearly everyone actually getting those positions lied about at least a third of their resume, and I absolutely do not fault them for it. At this point it's practically sensible job-seeking advice to embellish your skills and experience in your resume to a substantial degree because most of the time the company is not going to background-check anything as long as you show that you can actually do the job.
Think about cars - same thing. Everyone drives them but only some people know how they work. To 90% of the people on the road, they might as well be powered by dark magic.
You don't need to know how zip file works though. You need to know what buttons to press just just like with a car.
People work from their ability and sometimes their ability doesn't go further than that but it's not a big deal because they make it work for them and that is what matters
Luke is right about basically teaching a "common sense class" for how to sift through the garbage results in searches. I was around when Google finally exploded into ubiquity and at about 6 years old I remember being shown how to use Search Engines (lol) in Computer Class on our Windows 98 machines.
That truly is the modern equivalent of "computer literacy class." Whoever was teaching Typing 10-15-20 years ago is who would be teaching this now.
At this point, the world is running on computers.
Computer literacy is essential, to have any understanding of the world we live in.
But learning how to use a desktop computer is less relevant than ever.
There are several 'common sense' classes that are put on by organizations that are less tech-oriented and are more of a social service. They're so vital to communities that have limited access to the internet, so when they do browse through they know how to efficiently find information. They're also great for media literacy in schools and teaching students to root out real news from BS. There could be tech beginners classes, but I think most people assume all young people know how to use computers.
8:10 for the resume part
Graduated with my associates and brought my resume and portfolio to my first 3 job interviews in my field. (Was top of my class btw)
1st job didn't want to know about it cuz he said the last interview he had one and he didn't feel (based on theirs) any portfolio could be relevant. 2nd guy had 3 interviews of people from my same school, since the first guy bombed the interview he decided to just blow me off. 3rd guy looked at my stuff, liked it halfway through... Found out where I went to school and then proceeded to roast me and all my work. He had an interview the year prior of someone from my school who graduated bottom of their class.
Point is I had zero inclination after that to bring anything but my resume and mention zero info about my history except skills, how long I've had them, and how I've used them in jobs prior
Holy snap that some strong bias and very unprofessional on them either way... Especially you if they turn away a good talent invididual/ candidate by accident down the line.
I remember ZIP files being a big deal in the days of dial-up being commonplace in order to keep the file sizes down so you could transfer them faster over the phone lines. I think there's a lot of factors at play with why people don't know about ZIP files (or other archival formats like RAR):
* Computers with multi-gigabyte CPUs having gigabytes of memory and terabytes of storage
* Gigabit download speeds being affordable for many families
* Compression programs have been able to (for many years) turn compressed files into an EXE that just requires double-clicking to open up - which hides the algorithm from the end user
* Modern operating systems even have the ability to handle a compressed file like a regular folder anyways - for example, double-clicking on a ZIP file in Windows 10, assuming no other software installed, simply opens it up like another folder, just sometimes in a separate File Explorer window.
* The number of attachments you can add to an email and the size of files you can send has grown, as well as the storage capacity for email sites (Gmail, Hotmail/Live/Outlook, Yahoo Mail, etc)
This matters when network security is important. Which, if you have access to a company network, always matters. I often receive phishing e-mails where the attacker sends an executable/batch file pretending to be a pdf, word document or a zip file and it is none of those things. I'd argue that not only do you need to know what most common file types are and how they work but also the dangers of each file type. Of course, the Admin should have workstations and the network on a very short leash so that minimal damage can be done, but the first line is mostly always a pleb with a busy mailbox and targets to meet.
Most jobs that need that just have web security training tho
They absolutely should and you'd think it's obvious but its shocking the amount of companies and people lacking basic knowledge@@Mythicalgoon. It would probably (hopefully) be covered by a web security training course, which would be fine, so you're 100% right. But if you have a workstation connected to a company network, especially if you deal with incoming e-mails, then you need to know these things before you're let loose.
@@the.villan Tell our teachers that. i work in school IT. Our IT admins run a few phishing campaigns and its astonishing how many people fall for it. We've been doing it for a few years and usually get 50-100 staff members fall for it.
Teaching assistant here on most of the web developmenet courses on my Universtly. I teach all the basics from OOP concepts to full stack web apps that communicate with tax systems. I have the same issue with zip ing files with students. Specially in the later exam terms where worse students arrive. I recently started explaining git and github from 2nd year and so to try to solve the issue with zipping. I managed to increse the correct amount of sent projects by arround 35%
For all my fellow assistents and professors if you can try this. Also you get ranked higher by atudents for teaching theme more then intended.
Just want to point out that on every subject i do i show students how to use 7zip in the introduction lesson and on exam preparation...
2:20 that and folks working without a mouse and using a laptop trackpad while doing finer detailed pointing work.
i mostly use 2 fingers and can get up to 110wpm on a good keyboard, get on my level. learned it on runescape
I'm with Luke on this one, in most circumstances the difference between a zip file and folder doesn't matter and your software deals with it for you
I agree, bring back computer literacy classes. I work with a bunch of people who use the caps lock key twice to type the only capital letter in their passwords. It blows my mind.
Basically storage is so much less of an issue than it used to be, along with internet bandwidth, download speeds etc etc that zip files are rarely needed anymore. That’s why people don’t know what they are.
I don't know why sometimes the mail client on Windows just doesn't want to send certain filetypes, so I usually just compress them in a zip folder and send that 😅
Regarding ZIP files, I wouldn't be surprised if this goes all the way back to when David Plummer wrote the first integration of ZIP files directly into Windows Explorer. The native file browser in Windows can navigate zip files nearly identically to if they were actual folders.
Granted, it does give you at least some form of an indication. However, if most users are used to phones where they're rarely is the concept of folders, that (arguably easy to miss) indication that what you were hearing is, in fact, a zip file and not a folder, may be... easy to miss.
4:20 Luke, the fact that you think that not knowing what a zip file is is not going to matter is a very valid point. However consider all of the other useless garbage you learned in public school gen ed courses. I don't think being well-rounded in your earlier schooling years is a bad thing, but really a lot of places mess it up with their gen eds instead of focusing on something that the student actually enjoys doing to have them be passionate about their career
Luke has a Doctorate in Linus wrangling
I had typing class all throughout school and I didn’t get any faster. The only experience that ever made made my typing faster was working an office/email job.
As someone who works at a school, they do have those classes... They aren't optional either, you have to take a Microsoft Office class and a computer literacy class, which does in fact cover zip files.
the highlight of this video, is Future Linus roasting past Linus.
When you double click a compressed exe, it'll still decompress to execute. You'll just save 2 clicks and finding the exe.
virus containing emails typically come with zip files.
If you want to send anything cool you need to zip it, cab files, msi files, executables, binary files, loads of stuff gets blocked by email providers due to those kinds of attachments being considered "harmful".
5:18 Completely turned Linus' example against him wow,so good
Well I had a professor at university for some math course.
It was kinda frustrating to see him type with 1.5 fingers when he tried to help you on the computer.
He was also way past his pension age, so it amplifies the idea of someone not knowing how to use a computer.
But then all of a sudden he used some shortcuts you probably never knew existed and as a bystander you would be completely lost to what was happening and it was done before you could even blink your eyes.
Still not sure if it was something he did to tease students.
But it always stuck to me that seeing someone type with 1 or 2 fingers may be very deceptive :)
I'm not old by any means. I was in high school in the 2010s, but I grew up with computers pretty much all my life from ones that my dad would build from random parts he got. Typing class was my least favorite class BY FAR, even though I loved computers, because I vividly remember getting yelled at by the teacher for not typing the "correct" way with the home row keys and whatnot. Granted I don't type with just my index fingers, I do type LIKE I would be using the home row, but because it wasn't the way the curriculum was taught, it was wrong.
Didn't help that the lady teaching the class looked to be about as old as the first ever computer and she typed with the index finger method and she gave a demonstration on what a "good" wpm should be, and I handily beat the demonstration, but I digress.
Zip files are important just because of how frequently they are used like when sending 'folders' in emails.
It was CALM (career and life management) class when I was in high school. I just remember a monthly budget with a very small amount of money.
18:19 p
i really only type a couple of search terms and a few sentences a week, but i would've loved learning touchtyping when i had the time to. if linus is bothered by it so much, he should probably give the employee an hour a day to learn touchtyping. really useful skill that unfortunately only enthuisiasts pick up early in life.