I completed my engine swap from Briggs and Stratton to Honda gvc 190. It took some mods to ensure the shaft was aligned prefect with the belts & pulleys. The engine is running smooth. It was a great upgrade.
I still have the Briggs on mine but I tuned it up to 3700 rpm and it's a lot better... I just seem to go through a lot of PTO belts on it they are cheap and don't last.
Got a GCV200 from FB Marketplace, came on a Craftsman pressure washer. Came back to this video to listen to what adapter you used for the pulley / output shaft. Will be running commercially
If you can find a GCV200 or 190 from a honda mower than you might not need an adapter as the output shaft is long enough. The powerwasher engine shaft is very short hence is why I needed to drill and tap the output shaft and use a 2.5" spacer (if I can recall correctly). Believe it or not I just used a deep socket from an old socket set and it worked perfectly, cant recall the exact size but OD is different for each set so you'd have to probably go through a few sockets to find the perfect one. The socket just has to slide into the stock toro pulley, you may have to cut it to get the right length.
only issue with the pressure washer is the shaft is shorter, but if you see my comment I just made, I explain in detail how I adapted a OEM timemaster pulley to fit properly. So far its been great, I need to run it more to check belt wear is all, but I think I got the spacing better than my last engine swap.
you might be able to get away with the slightly less complicated method JnC describes though, but already having a 120v mig welder (hobart 140), I chose to go a little further to ensure the pulley wouldn't slip or something in the future. I like to do overkill lol
Well I found a relatively cheap GCV200 on a dewalt powerwasher on Marketplace, the pumps on those have a design flaw and apparently break often. Adapted a new OEM toro pulley with a 7/8"-1" engine shaft sleeve (had to be heavily sanded down in a makeshift drill lathe). Then put some washers in the bottom of the pulley to space the shim up(to achieve proper pulley height for blades+transmission), welded it and a longer 1/4" key in (GCV200 uses 1/4" keyway). Then I welded some pipe over the thin part of the exposed shim so it would bolt on tight to the engine shaft. The gcv200 works awesome so far, super easy to integrate the key to killswitch and a throttle setup shouldn't be hard to add (personal preference). It does seem to go thru gas quick, but a throttle setup would help that a little.
Also make sure you use an OEM blade engagement cable. I had an aftermarket for testing when I first got the mower in bad shape and it was junk - the upper plastic part would just warp/bend and the PTO belt would slip.
For years, the nicest thing I could say about Briggs engines was, "at least it's not a Tecumseh". I wish Toro had gone with a Honda powerplant to start with. But... they didn't. I have one of the Briggs 223 Timemasters, and (so far) it's been reliable and hasn't undergone any unscheduled self-disassembly. My only slight annoyance with this configuration is the weirdly small gas tank Briggs put on the 223. I've learned to work with it, but it was one of several odd choices about a mower I otherwise enjoy very much. Interesting that on the Turfmaster and eXmark 30s, they've stayed with smaller engines with lower torque ratings... ? Meanwhile, if I want a Honda-powered mower on my budget, I've had to settle for dragging around a Scotts reel mower behind my Elite 80 scooter.
Everyone hates tecumseh but you probably just were a terrible owner and didn’t take care of it, every engine is good,it doesn’t matter if you think it’s bad it’s really how you take care of it
@@melonboi186 - Was I a terrible Tecumseh owner? No, I wasn't. I've never owned a Tecumseh product. So where do I get off with my distaste for Tecumseh? That's because I was a small engine mechanic. Did I see some thrashed Honda engines? Absolutely, and they had obviously had long and hard lives. Meanwhile I was cracking open too many Tecumsehs that clearly had less than 50 hours of them, with still new factory blades, and paint under the deck still shiny. Suggesting that the only maintenance difference between a Yugo and a Mercedes is down to bad Yugo owners borders on ludicrous.
you can drill out your stock jet with micro drill bits. Find the size that fits stock without enlarging the jet, then go one size up. Clean the spark plug or get a new one, run the mower for a while, and then pull the spark plug to see if its running rich, lean, or just fine. I tried this with a Briggs engine and it never worked well, but it was also pretty worn out and a crappy carb design. If you add more fuel, you usually need more air too, can try drilling holes in the air filter holder for better flow if its running too rich afterwards.
Picked up another timemaster today from an old acquaintance that bought it brand new, non runner but he says that all it might need is a carb clean. I'll try that first, if that fixes it then great otherwise I have been researching putting a GXV340 or GXV390 on this machine, lets see.
I just completed the swap to agcv190 today. It would be cool to see another one of these swaps with more detail. All said, it was a fun and easy job. Thanks for the great idea!
Would you have or be able to show photos of the setup on the crank shaft that you did? I have a dead Briggs that I need to replace and have a 30$ less than 2hr 190 I can grab. Thanks in advance
willmochang I really need to start making more tutorial type of videos as I do these kind of swaps all the time, currently working on refurbishing a Honda HS928 snowblower, I might do a gx390 swap onto the chassis.
Very clever idea converting from Briggs and Stratton to Honda GCV 190 on a Toro Time master. Honda engines are more stronger and efficient than Briggs and Stratton engines.
@@JnC445 didn't even know they made a gvc390... but you want to put one of those on a lawn mower? That thing will end up lifting off the ground with that much power if you can pull it off
Nice, I put an old $20 Craftsman-Briggs intek "7hp" on my Timemaster I got for free with a blown engine. Also needed about $75 in other parts. I'm gonna be looking for a cheap GCV190 to swap I think though, as the briggs is kinda loud and likes to rip the cord out of your hand despite adjusting the valves and fixing the broken flywheel key. The GXV390 is going to too heavy for this mower in my opinion, I'd stick with what ya got.
would be cool if you made a video cutting longer-ish grass with yours, mulching and bagging/side shoot. Mine doesn't like to mulch wet grass, but not many do I suppose.
Impressive! I would love to have this set up. It starts so easy and sounds strong! I currently have the 8.75 torque Timemaster 30 but have considered upgrading to the 10 torque with an electric start. Will I notice a power increase for those that have made the jump?
@@JamesWDantonio you can drill out your stock jet with micro drill bits. Find the size that fits stock without enlarging the jet, then go one size up. Clean the spark plug or get a new one, run the mower for a while, and then pull the spark plug to see if its running rich, lean, or just fine. I tried this with a Briggs engine and it never worked well, but it was also pretty worn out and a crappy carb design. If you add more fuel, you usually need more air too, can try drilling holes in the air filter holder for better flow if its running too rich afterwards.
Nice job! Did you realize that this engine (in stock form) has 8.3 ft/lbs of torque, which is less than the original (pre-2017) Timemaster's Briggs 190cc engine at 8.75 ft/lbs? The current Briggs 223cc on the Timemaster is a 10ft/lb. motor with ball bearing PTO. Even the new Honda GCV200 has only 9.33 ft/lbs of torque, although I admit the Honda's are more durable & reliable engines. I wonder how much more power your re-jetting is providing you? Your GCV sounds nice and smooth though, probably due to the resin overhead cam. For the money spent you can't beat it and you have a nice unique mower!
mellowjammer yes, I noticed that the new motors and even the one that I removed was a bit more torquee than this Honda, with the bigger jet I am hoping it would compensate for the lower stock numbers, I haven’t noticed the machine to stall when the blades get engaged which seem to be an issue with the timemaster models with the smaller of the two displacement B&S motors.
The mounting points are the same as the old engine as most manufacturers use the industry standardized dimensions for the mounting hole pattern/size. I did have to tap the holes to use the old mounting bolts as the Honda was installed on the old power washer using nuts/bolts. As mentioned in the video, if you were to get a hold of the GCV190 off of a honda lawn mower then you probably wont have to do any work to install the old toro pulley onto the output/crankshaft but the motor that I used was off of a powerwasher with a stubby output shaft hence is why I had to make a spacer, sleeve and tap the crankshaft in order to install the OEM toro pulley. Since I do not have access to a lathe I made the spacer out of an old 1/2" socket that had the same outside diameter as the honda crankshaft AND had a through hole big enough to accommodate the bolt used to install the pulley onto the crankshaft. Once I found a spare socket that would serve the purpose I just cut it to length after test fitting and measuring of course; for the sleeve I just took a piece of 3/4" copper pipe, slit it length wise and then stretched it enough so that it would fit over the honda crankshaft. I used decent amount of thread sealer to make sure the bolt wont back out over time and so far its been working just fine. Next project would be to find another one of these Toros and install a Honda GXV390 on it. By the way the blade engagement etc is still Toro OEM as it had nothing to do with the old engine.
The GCV190 motors are common on many homelite, ryobi and I think craftsman pressure washers. The pump on these machines go bad after a few years, most owners either rebuilt/replace the pumps or replace the whole machine with a new unit. The motors are still solid and unlike the GCV190 motors found on the honda HRX217 lawn mowers the GCV190 motors on the pressure washers have metal gears on the crank shaft to run the belt that runs the camshaft. The GCV190 motors on the HRX217 may be easy to swap over without having the need to drill, tap, sleeve the output shaft but as mentioned in the video they are hard to come by as the HRX217 mowers are still new and run pretty solid. I picked up this motor from facebook marketplace for $60, you would need to drill and tap the output shaft along with using a 1.25" spacer and a 7/8" ID 1" OD sleeve. Luckily the sleeve can be made out a thin walled conduit pipe and the crankshaft is easy to drill and tap.
Not difficult at all, I cant remember how far I drilled it but the new bolt has at least an inch and a half worth of threads to bite into. A bit of threadlock on the bolt also helps.
@@JnC445 I did the swap but now the mower keeps breaking the traction belt or throwing the traction belts I notice belt gets kinda of hot Did it happen to you ?
@@CarlosLemus-zc6rh No such issue here, machine has been working flawlessly with OE belts for two seasons now. I would check the alignment of the pulley to make sure its in-line with the transmission. If either of the pulleys is off that can cause premature wear/damage. I cant recall how the belt tensioner/drive engage lever is set up in the machine but I would also check that, I have had this happen with old snowblowers with bad bearings in the tensioners that can cause damage to the belt.
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I completed my engine swap from Briggs and Stratton to Honda gvc 190. It took some mods to ensure the shaft was aligned prefect with the belts & pulleys.
The engine is running smooth. It was a great upgrade.
I still have the Briggs on mine but I tuned it up to 3700 rpm and it's a lot better... I just seem to go through a lot of PTO belts on it they are cheap and don't last.
Awesome mod man. Hondas run so smooth.
im also a fan of Kawasaki
Got a GCV200 from FB Marketplace, came on a Craftsman pressure washer. Came back to this video to listen to what adapter you used for the pulley / output shaft. Will be running commercially
If you can find a GCV200 or 190 from a honda mower than you might not need an adapter as the output shaft is long enough. The powerwasher engine shaft is very short hence is why I needed to drill and tap the output shaft and use a 2.5" spacer (if I can recall correctly). Believe it or not I just used a deep socket from an old socket set and it worked perfectly, cant recall the exact size but OD is different for each set so you'd have to probably go through a few sockets to find the perfect one. The socket just has to slide into the stock toro pulley, you may have to cut it to get the right length.
only issue with the pressure washer is the shaft is shorter, but if you see my comment I just made, I explain in detail how I adapted a OEM timemaster pulley to fit properly. So far its been great, I need to run it more to check belt wear is all, but I think I got the spacing better than my last engine swap.
you might be able to get away with the slightly less complicated method JnC describes though, but already having a 120v mig welder (hobart 140), I chose to go a little further to ensure the pulley wouldn't slip or something in the future. I like to do overkill lol
Well I found a relatively cheap GCV200 on a dewalt powerwasher on Marketplace, the pumps on those have a design flaw and apparently break often. Adapted a new OEM toro pulley with a 7/8"-1" engine shaft sleeve (had to be heavily sanded down in a makeshift drill lathe). Then put some washers in the bottom of the pulley to space the shim up(to achieve proper pulley height for blades+transmission), welded it and a longer 1/4" key in (GCV200 uses 1/4" keyway). Then I welded some pipe over the thin part of the exposed shim so it would bolt on tight to the engine shaft. The gcv200 works awesome so far, super easy to integrate the key to killswitch and a throttle setup shouldn't be hard to add (personal preference). It does seem to go thru gas quick, but a throttle setup would help that a little.
I also drilled and tapped the gcv200 shaft 3/8"-24 I believe (standard mower shaft size) and ran a longer, grade 8 bolt.
Also make sure you use an OEM blade engagement cable. I had an aftermarket for testing when I first got the mower in bad shape and it was junk - the upper plastic part would just warp/bend and the PTO belt would slip.
For years, the nicest thing I could say about Briggs engines was, "at least it's not a Tecumseh". I wish Toro had gone with a Honda powerplant to start with. But... they didn't.
I have one of the Briggs 223 Timemasters, and (so far) it's been reliable and hasn't undergone any unscheduled self-disassembly. My only slight annoyance with this configuration is the weirdly small gas tank Briggs put on the 223. I've learned to work with it, but it was one of several odd choices about a mower I otherwise enjoy very much.
Interesting that on the Turfmaster and eXmark 30s, they've stayed with smaller engines with lower torque ratings... ?
Meanwhile, if I want a Honda-powered mower on my budget, I've had to settle for dragging around a Scotts reel mower behind my Elite 80 scooter.
Everyone hates tecumseh but you probably just were a terrible owner and didn’t take care of it, every engine is good,it doesn’t matter if you think it’s bad it’s really how you take care of it
@@melonboi186 - Was I a terrible Tecumseh owner? No, I wasn't. I've never owned a Tecumseh product. So where do I get off with my distaste for Tecumseh? That's because I was a small engine mechanic. Did I see some thrashed Honda engines? Absolutely, and they had obviously had long and hard lives. Meanwhile I was cracking open too many Tecumsehs that clearly had less than 50 hours of them, with still new factory blades, and paint under the deck still shiny.
Suggesting that the only maintenance difference between a Yugo and a Mercedes is down to bad Yugo owners borders on ludicrous.
Dope engine swap
@JnC445 can you share any details about the larger carb jet you used?
you can drill out your stock jet with micro drill bits. Find the size that fits stock without enlarging the jet, then go one size up. Clean the spark plug or get a new one, run the mower for a while, and then pull the spark plug to see if its running rich, lean, or just fine. I tried this with a Briggs engine and it never worked well, but it was also pretty worn out and a crappy carb design. If you add more fuel, you usually need more air too, can try drilling holes in the air filter holder for better flow if its running too rich afterwards.
Picked up another timemaster today from an old acquaintance that bought it brand new, non runner but he says that all it might need is a carb clean. I'll try that first, if that fixes it then great otherwise I have been researching putting a GXV340 or GXV390 on this machine, lets see.
Would be pretty funny to see how it does through long grass, 12" or more.
I just completed the swap to agcv190 today. It would be cool to see another one of these swaps with more detail. All said, it was a fun and easy job. Thanks for the great idea!
Would you have or be able to show photos of the setup on the crank shaft that you did? I have a dead Briggs that I need to replace and have a 30$ less than 2hr 190 I can grab. Thanks in advance
Pretty badass. Will you do a video tutorial on the Honda engine swap?
willmochang I really need to start making more tutorial type of videos as I do these kind of swaps all the time, currently working on refurbishing a Honda HS928 snowblower, I might do a gx390 swap onto the chassis.
Very clever idea converting from Briggs and Stratton to Honda GCV 190 on a Toro Time master. Honda engines are more stronger and efficient than Briggs and Stratton engines.
How you conect the Bealls yo u got a video how you conect everything
Should of put the gcv200 on there like the new HRX . That would of been even more bad ass
Funny you say that as I am on the hunt for a GCV390 for my next project.
@@JnC445 didn't even know they made a gvc390... but you want to put one of those on a lawn mower? That thing will end up lifting off the ground with that much power if you can pull it off
@@JnC445 please finish that project and show the results on a cut yard.
That's awesome. Wonder how he drilled and tapped the shaft. A lathe?
you can do it with a cordless, just have to be decent with it.
still have it? running?
Yes.
Nice, I put an old $20 Craftsman-Briggs intek "7hp" on my Timemaster I got for free with a blown engine. Also needed about $75 in other parts. I'm gonna be looking for a cheap GCV190 to swap I think though, as the briggs is kinda loud and likes to rip the cord out of your hand despite adjusting the valves and fixing the broken flywheel key. The GXV390 is going to too heavy for this mower in my opinion, I'd stick with what ya got.
would be cool if you made a video cutting longer-ish grass with yours, mulching and bagging/side shoot. Mine doesn't like to mulch wet grass, but not many do I suppose.
any videos with this in action?
Impressed
Impressive! I would love to have this set up. It starts so easy and sounds strong! I currently have the 8.75 torque Timemaster 30 but have considered upgrading to the 10 torque with an electric start. Will I notice a power increase for those that have made the jump?
You won't notice it. I have used both and I can't tell the slightest difference
Holy shit. That thing sounds just fine.any idea as to which carb from Honda has that bigger jet?
@JnC445 Curious about the carb jet as well. I wouldn't mind doing something to get a little extra power out of the GCV160 on my Super Recycler.
@@JamesWDantonio you can drill out your stock jet with micro drill bits. Find the size that fits stock without enlarging the jet, then go one size up. Clean the spark plug or get a new one, run the mower for a while, and then pull the spark plug to see if its running rich, lean, or just fine. I tried this with a Briggs engine and it never worked well, but it was also pretty worn out and a crappy carb design. If you add more fuel, you usually need more air too, can try drilling holes in the air filter holder for better flow if its running too rich afterwards.
I have a few of these engines laying around. What all do I need to swap?
Sweet, I have the thirty inch
Would love to do this on mine. It needs a new motor
Toro need to go with Honda with the torque!
Nice job! Did you realize that this engine (in stock form) has 8.3 ft/lbs of torque, which is less than the original (pre-2017) Timemaster's Briggs 190cc engine at 8.75 ft/lbs? The current Briggs 223cc on the Timemaster is a 10ft/lb. motor with ball bearing PTO. Even the new Honda GCV200 has only 9.33 ft/lbs of torque, although I admit the Honda's are more durable & reliable engines. I wonder how much more power your re-jetting is providing you? Your GCV sounds nice and smooth though, probably due to the resin overhead cam. For the money spent you can't beat it and you have a nice unique mower!
mellowjammer yes, I noticed that the new motors and even the one that I removed was a bit more torquee than this Honda, with the bigger jet I am hoping it would compensate for the lower stock numbers, I haven’t noticed the machine to stall when the blades get engaged which seem to be an issue with the timemaster models with the smaller of the two displacement B&S motors.
Sweet as dude! 👍
Is this a direct bolt on engine or did you have to make any modifications. And did you have to do anything with the throttle and blade engagement?
The mounting points are the same as the old engine as most manufacturers use the industry standardized dimensions for the mounting hole pattern/size. I did have to tap the holes to use the old mounting bolts as the Honda was installed on the old power washer using nuts/bolts.
As mentioned in the video, if you were to get a hold of the GCV190 off of a honda lawn mower then you probably wont have to do any work to install the old toro pulley onto the output/crankshaft but the motor that I used was off of a powerwasher with a stubby output shaft hence is why I had to make a spacer, sleeve and tap the crankshaft in order to install the OEM toro pulley. Since I do not have access to a lathe I made the spacer out of an old 1/2" socket that had the same outside diameter as the honda crankshaft AND had a through hole big enough to accommodate the bolt used to install the pulley onto the crankshaft.
Once I found a spare socket that would serve the purpose I just cut it to length after test fitting and measuring of course; for the sleeve I just took a piece of 3/4" copper pipe, slit it length wise and then stretched it enough so that it would fit over the honda crankshaft. I used decent amount of thread sealer to make sure the bolt wont back out over time and so far its been working just fine.
Next project would be to find another one of these Toros and install a Honda GXV390 on it.
By the way the blade engagement etc is still Toro OEM as it had nothing to do with the old engine.
@@JnC445 Thanks
Where can I pick up one those engines! very interested in this engine swap!! Thanks
The GCV190 motors are common on many homelite, ryobi and I think craftsman pressure washers. The pump on these machines go bad after a few years, most owners either rebuilt/replace the pumps or replace the whole machine with a new unit. The motors are still solid and unlike the GCV190 motors found on the honda HRX217 lawn mowers the GCV190 motors on the pressure washers have metal gears on the crank shaft to run the belt that runs the camshaft. The GCV190 motors on the HRX217 may be easy to swap over without having the need to drill, tap, sleeve the output shaft but as mentioned in the video they are hard to come by as the HRX217 mowers are still new and run pretty solid.
I picked up this motor from facebook marketplace for $60, you would need to drill and tap the output shaft along with using a 1.25" spacer and a 7/8" ID 1" OD sleeve. Luckily the sleeve can be made out a thin walled conduit pipe and the crankshaft is easy to drill and tap.
@@JnC445 Thankyou have great Day!
@JnC445 can you please tell me what did you use for a spacer? Thanks
How difficult was to tap the shaft ? Was able to get a 190gcv just notice I need to tap the shaft
Thanks
Not difficult at all, I cant remember how far I drilled it but the new bolt has at least an inch and a half worth of threads to bite into. A bit of threadlock on the bolt also helps.
@@JnC445 I did the swap but now the mower keeps breaking the traction belt or throwing the traction belts
I notice belt gets kinda of hot
Did it happen to you ?
@@CarlosLemus-zc6rh No such issue here, machine has been working flawlessly with OE belts for two seasons now. I would check the alignment of the pulley to make sure its in-line with the transmission. If either of the pulleys is off that can cause premature wear/damage. I cant recall how the belt tensioner/drive engage lever is set up in the machine but I would also check that, I have had this happen with old snowblowers with bad bearings in the tensioners that can cause damage to the belt.
That's cool, I mite do mine too. 😊
Sweet
Go Honda!!!!!
Not enough horsepower, that engine doesn’t belong on there
Nice mower bud., Just subbed your cannel , check mine out if you get a chance