I hope some of you will consider joining me on my adventure! Streaming daily on Twitch! www.twitch.tv/justruss VODs here: www.youtube.com/@justrussvods
The toxicity in high-end raiding in xiv is really interesting. Every very, very top player I've bumped into has been extremely helpful and genuinely fun to play with. I am not a very top player, so I met these people because they just randomly pop into prog parties to help. I only know they're top players because one of my friends had a toxic parser phase, so he knew their names. The top players never came in saying shit like, "Yo, top parsing GNB here. I'm here to carry everyone!" They show up, don't mess up, and offer suggestions when they see something someone could improve. Then there's a strata of players who think they're only not top players because they can't get good crits, or their teammates are bad, or their mouse is old, or their cat jumped on the keyboard. This is the "high-end toxic" crowd. Blacklist and move on. Then comes the majority of savage raiders. They're good enough to get the job done, get frustrated about as much as any other human being, have moments of pure excellence, and moments of absolute embarrassment. The toxicity in this group is more often than not people having a bad day rather than people having a bad personality.
Your first paragraph sounds a lot like how I used to carry myself when trying to help others back in WoW, and how I'd like to carry myself going forward into FF when I eventually reach a point at which I can help others. And yeah the last one is I guess just your average "decent" player. Wants to clear content, but is still a human witha full life of moving parts at the end of the day. :P
That last paragraph is how the last three hours of farming P10S went for me tonight. hey, we got one clear.... and I lot the lost on tank hands again....
I play with a group of people like that. The mentality for them is 2 part. One, they have already cleared the tier and they are trying to optimize strats. They do this by just going into PF and doing whatever they tell them. The idea being "If PF can do it then it must be the easy way" Two, they used to be toxic and a GM kidnapped them and told them to cut it out, they learned their lessons XD
I don’t watch Asmon that regularly and I knew he wasn’t going to stick with it. He wasn’t that invested in the game or the story which meant his views from Ffxiv players were going to dwindle quick. This is how he judges whether he will keep doing content or not. He keeps moving. He keeps trying to to find new stuff to do. WoW is his home, every other game is a passing fancy. Just how it is. Anyone who thought he was going to keep playing is just not that bright. I just kept wondering when he was going to stop. How far he was going to get. We could’ve had a gambling pool.
No bad intensions towards Arthars at all, but I can't agree with him on most things he says whenever it comes to WoW and FFXIV being discussed, he can be very biased. But some things he says I do agree with, it's just there are some definite hot takes.
Oh absolutely! Everyone has some cooked takes here and there. I know he does play both games, but I'm not clued in on the extent of his WoW experience and therefore his ability to speak on it! Just like myself the FF i suppose :P
He's a great guy, but he has some wild hot takes about WoW vs FFXIV for sure. I've seen some other streamers hear his takes, want to explain his point of view to be more neutral, and then awkwardly paused as they struggle to figure wtf even was his argument. He's totally worth watching overall, people just gotta keep in mind that some of his takes are pretty wild and controversial.
I apologise for the unsolicited wall of text if I do press send on this. I know you read all your comments, but feel free to skip this essay. First off all, we have to be honest about one thing. A big part for us emotional vampires witnessing a Sprout's Journey is the spectacle. We stay with one streamer over the other for various reasons, but the one we even start looking is the spectacle of going through these things again with a fresh perspective. We want to see someone who doesn't have the knowledge we do be hit by the same beats that got us. To that end, we help them progress without any hitches. Once that is done, the next spectacle is the one of the fights. Extremes, Savages, Ultimates, you name it. For that end, we can get extremely pushy. Along each step of this journey, people join and fall off. With very suspicious clustering around specific moments. Some you have seen, many you have yet to reach. With the most drastic rises and drops being after the base Expansion and its .3 patch (the bulk of the story and its conclusion). Viewership climbs back up nearing .55-.58, aka when the next Expansion starts, but the numbers don't necessarily stay after it does. This is the general cycle of a streaming Sprout and many of Arthars' points stem from it. But the real question is what happens after everything. How many stick around and what happens to the motivation of the streamer? Have they managed to build an actual core? Will they keep going despite the numbers being much lower than they might be used to? I know I witnessed both a stream and a streamer crash after finishing Shadowbringers. Not many stayed and the streamer was rather competitive with likes and viewers during the journey. Nothing astronomical, but the egging to reach 100 likes on youtube before the stream actually started was a real thing. So there was a longer hiatus that I didn't stick around for when the eventual crash came. And when I looked at their channels last month, no FFXIV content remained and they had pivoted into a different direction. That's just how things go sometimes. Which brings me to you, Russ. Finally, I know. You have completely embraced the meme of stalling. Made it your own in many ways. But the most notable thing you have done is that you have skipped to the last step. By doing the things you really want to do the way you want them and not letting yourself be pushed towards the spectacle and, honestly, eventual burnout. Which isn't to say that the Fights are not spectacular to watch. However. Doing them blind *with* a *_blind_* party takes away A LOT of the "magic" that is a quick and (mostly) clean progression. Because most do not want to see the struggle, they want to see the clear. That you are still doing it regardless has led to you not only building your community "early," but reducing your viewership almost entirely to it. So when you grow, it is much more likely to stick because it isn't built on the sticks many other people had as foundation. So. Well done and here's to your continued success!
Thanks so much for this comment! I really appreciate you taking the time to write it all out. And I completely agree - and that's actually *why* I take my time too. I know there will be rises and falls in viewership but my trump card to that is essentially "Am I having fun myself?" and I always choose my content based on that. I'll get to the big moments when I get to them is the way I see it. And the core will be built, and the people who are just there for it will come and go like you said. I will of course try to retain a % of those people, and hope my content fits their vibe long-term. But I can't count on it at all. And with doing all my content on MINE, and blind. Well that's more of a personal thing and I like to challenge myself, alongside give people the opportunity to participate in it at a slightly harder difficulty than is usually available (I don't think there are many groups for this kind of stuff in general). It's less of a flex and more of a "I did it yay!" to myself. Anyway thank you for this. Was a great read!
@@JustRuss Glad you liked it. The video and your commentary got me thinking and looking at what I have seen and am seeing, so I had to type things out to order my thoughts. Which... can get long. And you definitely have found a niche for yourself in doing these fights blind in their "natural progression." I'm waiting for Dawntrail to do it myself. There still are some blind progression parties in PF, but I'm more focused on preparing for that new Expansion. Making your content all the more interesting!
You read every comment? Well Hi russ! Really enjoy the content! I also used to play WoW casually (quit after MoP when I went to college) and have absolutely LOVED the FF14 community. Really just wish you all the best!
Can confirm Russ reads every comment. I commented something on a video that's a few days old and not even the latest video, and he still replied to me, and then replied to my reply to his reply. To add to the stuff Arthars said, I think Russ is one of the few people who has positioned himself in such a way that it's hard for people take credit away from him. He makes mistakes and flaunts his mistakes proudly. And you can clearly see the gears click in his mind as he picks up a lot of stuff. He's not someone getting carried through everything so he can speed through the game, he's not someone pretending to be blind progging everything, he's not just doing whatever his community tells him to, he's just a guy playing through the game the way he likes and sticking to his own principles.
You have nothing to worry about before Dawntrail, since most of the community is sleeping. It's the breath before the storm. But... what's crazy is that Dawntrail is going to be next-level FFXIV. They're planning on releasing every kind of content they've released in the past, plus MORE new stuff. The biggest expansion to-date. If that actually happens then I believe the game and the playerbase will be bigger and busier than it's ever been. Buckle up and hold onto your seat. There is a before and an after expansion-release, and it will be a new experience for you since you missed Endwalker's release. Be prepared, shit will get wild
I definitely share the mentality of just scream at your monitor to get the anger out instead of sending something in chat. There have absolutely been times where I questioned how someone has made it to level 90 in this game. Certainly not my proudest moments.
Some of them I think levelskipped. Others just got carried. I've heard horror stories of someone trying to heal the Nier raids as a Conjurer... meaning no job stone.
@@psymar I can totally accept the level skip theory, I’m not a fan of it personally but I understand why it was incorporated. The conjurer though… that’s just pure idiocy or trolling, and I’m likely leaning towards trolling at level 80 content
I legit had this happen in an Expert duty the other day. I was laughing so hard because this Bard was basically doing 15% of the damage I was. At least that's my guess. The dungeon took 5-6 minutes longer than usual. I have nfc what they were/weren't doing. I couldn't even get mad. It was just hilarious.
People with experience with other mmos saying things are bad in FF is really valuable I don't understand why people get mad about it. Fresh eyes making criticisms is good because long time players might be blind to it.
That kind of emotional knee-jerk reaction to criticisms happens in literally every community. It's just become a running meme that the FF community is somehow way worse about it, so confirmation bias means that any time you see 1 guy doing it, suddenly it's the whole community doing it. Not to mention some of the times I've seen people claim this have just been bollocks claims in and of itself. You'll have people intentionally trolling and misrepresenting the game only for people that actually play it to respond reasonably and get hit with the "FF cultist" label. It's all so tiresome.
Thanks for the vid, nice insights! FF does have a great community. Everyone has turds but yeah the “level of escalation” is much different here. Glad you’re still enjoying your journey. Good gaming Russ!
I have to deal with 23:00 in a diff game that I play. It's definitely a tough avenue to navigate. Kinda why I cut off viewer games as a whole and only play with top players I know now. When are doing big things as a creator & got all this stuff going on sometimes you gotta just make proper changes to accommodate for what you are trying to do with your community. This video was VERY insightful for me! Appreciate all the perspective & such! ~ Day18 Sprout :]
The community in FF14 is absolutely incredible. I've had one instance where someone reminded me of why I got tired of the WoW community. But it wasn't even a big deal. Everyone is incredibly helpful and patient. Once in a while someone leaves a group because they wiped one time while everyone else either is laughing about or is like "we got this!".
I’m not sure if you’d see this Russ, but the issue comes down to trying to please everyone all the time. You do you, after all that’s what brought people to you in the first place (and the algorithm). You can’t please many people these days because there are people that are born into this tech mess that get a kick out of dislikes and antagonistic comments. If you do what they want you’ll ostracize the others. Stay true to yourself, and don’t worry about naysayers, because a majority of the time they are a VERY small minority. People will continue to try and create your path and throw wrenches in the mix, but do your best to tell them to “fuck off” with a smile on your face.
Thanks for confirming this! These were my thoughts too, like I mentioned with the "one guy" thing in the video. Gotta do what's best for the masses, and yourself. But never can please everyone, and certainly don't listen to the minority. I will continue to do so with a smile on my face haha :D
I sometimes feel like people assume I'm just being that 'one guy' and it's happened enough that I make an effort to phrase my statements clearly : I offer advice to help people enjoy the game regardless of which approach they choose, which includes warnings for things to avoid for whichever route they take. I suppose many people construe this as "don't play that way" which wasn't the intent, but I want people to be able to make educated decisions so they know if they do play in certain ways they may have less fun or may have more friction with other players. I'm sure I've commented on several of Russ's videos by now, and I hope that overall my comments have been seen positively. If not, I'm sorry it certainly wasn't my intent. I do think there's a certain divide in the community that Arthas is talking about, the stream-oriented community vs the game-oriented ones. There is the overlap in that many people in the stream also play the game, and many people who play the game will watch and interact with streams, but how they approach the other side will differ. For my part, I consider myself a mentor and I strictly approach stream interactions (including VODs) with that mindset, trying to help people improve their experience. Where I think the stream-oriented folks have a lot of other priorities trying to create an experience that uses the game as a medium but treats it as more of a background to what the community is trying to do. I only make this distinction here because it's not usually recognized when people are generalizing commentary/criticism as 'the community'. I've sometimes disagreed with comments directed to FF players but realize that it might apply more specifically to stream lurkers who happen to play the game. Asmongold in particular I think was victimized by the people who populate his chat and who happened to have access to the game, far more so than he was ever bothered by the average FF player. I'm not really sure what to do with this understanding, though. I just try to be the best mentor I can be, trying to avoid being overbearing. I feel bad when 'the community' doesn't feel the same obligations and drive people away, which does happen and is a shame when it does.
In my opinion, as long as you are trying your best to stay true to your values and goals, and framing things like your feedback positively, rather than in a way where it feels arrogant and intimidating - then that’s all you can really do. Whether or not people choose to take your advice is on them. And if they take offence that’s a then issue for it being a hard pill to swallow. Those wanting to improve will listen, despite maybe being initially stubborn to the idea that they are not as good as they thought. Anyway I think you are speaking correctly on this with your words so keep it up!
@@JustRuss I'd like to add that I appreciate your patience in actually reading/ responding to 'essays' like mine. It's a bad habit of mine but it does feel good if someone is able to make use of it.
The earlier ults (cough, UWU in particular) you can definitely get carried lol. Later on though, no you cannot. everybody needs to know what they're doing.
I intend to not be carried myself personally, as it takes the fun and also sense of achievement out of it. But I totally get that there are people who will be okay with it if said piece of content is a means to an end, for example the cosmetic appearance. I cherish the satisfaction of the kill!
@@JustRuss yeah it's also the satisfaction of knowing you put in the time and dedication to learn the fights. I've done UWU & TEA so far, working on DSR now with my static and it's a lot of fun. It's definitely more rewarding at the end of the day when you're flexing your Ult weapons knowing you put in 100% of your own effort to obtain it, at least imo.
O best example of this was Zepla she couldn't clear DSR and parts of 1st savage raid abd her party dispanded and she went full 100% toxic on xiv . It bit her in the ass as people have never gone back since.
Just wanted to say I like watching you experience the game for the first time. Bad apples exist in every community, and the high-end of FFXIV can definitely be a bit gatekeep-y. Don't let anyone stop you from trying any of the content in the way you want, there is absolutely nothing stopping you. And no matter how you choose it, don't let anyone take away from your achievement. Players will go "oh, but it was harder when it was new" or "oh, but you were carried". At the end it doesn't matter, because you did it, fullstop. Also on a side note from one youtuber to another, I recommend you shorten your titles even if that makes them less descriptive, give it a try
Thanks for this Jolsn! Glad you're enjoying! I'll keep that in mind. I've definitely been getting much better at not letting people push me around. Also, Love your vids (I watched your rare achievements and ui guides!), will defo try out that tip
Asmongold is in a position where his community is very divided where you've got WoW andies throwing up pitchforks showing tribalism. Then you've got FF14 andies who can't handle hearing their game has flaws or seeing a streamer get streamer privilege. FF14 does have Streamer mode & regular mode based on your community but that does not validate giving a streamer a bad time. He stepped away from FF14 because both sides were after him and didn't allow him to just enjoy the game.
My issue with the ffxiv community as a sprout is that they don’t give me advice. They are so scared to offend, they will allow you to fail a mechanic over and over and not say anything. In one dungeon, myself and another dps failed a certain mechanic I hadn’t seen before and I asked in party how to do it, and the dps was like “I’m not sure”. But I noticed the healer was a mentor so I was like, “hey you’re a mentor, how do we do that mechanic?” And they just ignored me. I was like, good talk! And then I will see videos on UA-cam of mentors making fun of people for not knowing how to do certain mechanics. I’m just like, mentors are great aren’t they? But that could just be my experience with them so far.
As far as I know, a LOT of mentors just do it for a mount or something, the icon and a mount, without the intent of helping other people. But I can assure you there are certainly many very helpful people around. Feel free to join my discord and ask away with any questions and I'm sure multiple people will be willing to answer and help!
It used to not be, honestly, but yeah. Over the years SE has made it clear that you can basically be banned for explaining a mechanic if the other person interprets it wrong, so no one speaks up
Most mentors arent really "mentors" and often play worse then normal players. The mentor crown (aka burger king crown) is just a thing you get while you play casually along. You dont have to do any meaningful challenge or such. Most people have it turned off because its more or like a thing that isnt worth anything.
also the issue is that there are console players who avoid typing bc it takes too long to chat in console, main reason why i play in PC, i am very social and i msg alot of randoms if i like or if i am bored, i dont get responses and few tell me they cant actively suggest or speak bc they are on console and its hard to type and chat.
@@ed-xf5qn I actually started off on console myself. It’s only like $10 to buy a wireless keyboard. But now I play on PC- a mini pc (NUC 11 Enthusiast) hooked up to my TV. So practically the same setup before, just much more powerful lol.
I saw this happen in real time. I was a big fan of scottzone and thought he brought a real breath of fresh air to the 14 content creator scene. This was before the big wow exodus and there weren't a lot of new content creators. He got bullied out of content creation exactly because of these reasons. He dared to have opinions and constructive criticism about savage raiding and a certain group of players took it very personally and lashed out. It was very disappointing.
Sorry Russ, my monitors have had to take enough abuse because I've had to modify them for my use case, you're just gonna have to live with catching strays. 😂
In game, the FFXIV community is great. I did all the group content via Duty Finder and never had any problem. The vast majority of those who watch streamers play FFXIV are great, too; e.g. the Grinding Gear audience. But the FFXIV version of 'that one guy in chat' can be something else altogether. Stalling winds them up no end, but it's also a way to get rid of them if you can stand your ground.
Yep I had a pretty sizable drop off in stream viewership once people worked out that i'm going to take my time and play how I want to play, and not any shit haha However there's still a huge portion who remained and those are the ones who bring me the positivity I enjoy anyway so i'd say I'm pretty blessed
Tbh I feel like there's this weird thing when it comes to FF14 stans, regular players give them too much control and fear them way too much when it's just words on a screen. In any other game you would just make fun of someone blindly defending the game like it's their first born child and move on with your life, but FF14 Stans have this weird strangle hold over regular players and streamers especially. It's a weird phenomenon to me.
Youre going pretty far out of your way to not get carried. Its ok to get carried a little. But i love this culture you're trying to build to get new people into raiding and taking the game slow. If only you were on NA, id be all about it.
Thanks! I'm glad to be able to use my platform for something good and also give back to the folks who take care of me. Hopefully they will implement cross region more than just OCE eventually and then you can totally get involved! Failing that, I have a ton of viewers who have made EU alts to play alongside me! :D
nice seeing you stil plaing :D myself trying to "force" myself back >,> i dont think i be able to finish end walker in time guess my curce of alwais beeing one expanchon behind, wil continue ^^" wish youu and your vuers loats of fun!
I really can’t understand badgering someone for not playing the game the way you want them to. Yes, there’s a part of me that would be sad if someone just went through and skipped all the story but it’s their game. They get to play it the way they want to. I’d much rather have nice people to play with, even if they enjoy different things about the game than I do.
Asmongold literally quits everything he plays. He's a horrible example to use and he most certainly NOT has crossed that red line in arthar's video. He is a reaction streamer who ocassionally plays variety games. That's it. He doesn't play WoW or FFXIV regularly and hasn't played WoW regularly literally for over a decade. This guy arthars is a clown and he's talking specifically about a streamer's journey. 99.99% of the playerbase do not relate to that list this guy is writing out on his video. The bottom half of his list is also completely wrong when applied to asmongold. Asmongold hasn't done difficult PvE content in WoW since 2010. And he absolutely, 100% does get carried when ge comes back to wow for his semi annual one-week of playing. He doesn't even hide it, he welcomes it and encourages it. Funny, maybe that's why he quits the game in one week. Did that ever occur to him? Never forget this is a dude who, along with esfand, played during the fresh phase of multiple versions of classic, unironically demanded all phase 1 bis loot be funneled to them, and then quit a week later. There's even a stream of esfand raiding Naxx during P1 of WOTLK with a guild who wasn't his own since he missed his guild raid that week. The BiS ret 2h dropped and the guild ofc catered to Esfand by giving him the axe "if he promised to raid with us instead of your guild from now on". Naturally, Esfand quit the game the next week and never logged on WOTLK again. This is why people in the wow community despise streamers, they've totally brought it upon themselves. Especially within the classic community, I would argue that these classic wow orbiting streamers don't even like the game anymore. They just like the "fresh" aspect of a new server, that first month of a new server. One month in, every single one of them has fully quit the game and moved onto something else. What does that really say about your claim of "loving wow" if you quit right when the game gets to its best via end game raiding/pvp?
What clout are they hoping to gain long term, really? If it were other streamers trying to be on my stream all the time, you might have a case. But these are literally just players who can’t to help out and be part of something bigger.
the ff14 community has some real weirdos in it, and they are quite aggressive. the kinds of people you would never talk to or even come into contact with in real life. streamers are trying to vibe with whoever is participating because its the best way to grow the stream, but make themselves vulnerable to these people who 100 % fail the eye test irl. even the community's shining beacon of positivity (name unnecessary) lost their way and quit the game amid the toxicity of failures during hard content. its the weird ass people playing and idolizing this game.
it's fine for the most part until real world politics comes into play. It's far left toxic behavior where they attack you for vales you have they don't share. Or shove thier ideology down your throat and than when you say something they say keep quiet or something stupid. FF14 I don't bring up politics and ideology until a player does. Streamers do this all the time where they talk politics of the real world yet say no politics as a rule. Rule for you not them.
@@JustRuss I used examples that most streamers do or the space many fall into. This does not imply you do it, I have not seen enough of your content. However I take what a streamer says with a grain of salt until proven. You talk about the 1% being bad and used back seat gamers and someone not liking your hair color as examples. I highly doubt those are only the two. Do you have a twitch? Do you have rules in those rules are they political? For example if you say you must refer to pronouns than it's political and alininates a large population of people. It's like Nexus saying it was open to opinions when they are not. Or when they said no bigots while being bigoted and banning different religious beliefs that was harming nobody.
The only 'politics' ive come across in FF was someone advertising their FC and saying communists and people with pronouns cant join. I told them im both so i cant join sorry!
![Arthars reacts to "The Raid That Changed FFXIV History" by Rinon [Part 1]](/img/n.gif)
I hope some of you will consider joining me on my adventure! Streaming daily on Twitch!
www.twitch.tv/justruss
VODs here: www.youtube.com/@justrussvods
People should take a page out of Grinding Gear and just enjoy the ride instead of rushing to the end.
The toxicity in high-end raiding in xiv is really interesting. Every very, very top player I've bumped into has been extremely helpful and genuinely fun to play with. I am not a very top player, so I met these people because they just randomly pop into prog parties to help. I only know they're top players because one of my friends had a toxic parser phase, so he knew their names. The top players never came in saying shit like, "Yo, top parsing GNB here. I'm here to carry everyone!" They show up, don't mess up, and offer suggestions when they see something someone could improve.
Then there's a strata of players who think they're only not top players because they can't get good crits, or their teammates are bad, or their mouse is old, or their cat jumped on the keyboard. This is the "high-end toxic" crowd. Blacklist and move on.
Then comes the majority of savage raiders. They're good enough to get the job done, get frustrated about as much as any other human being, have moments of pure excellence, and moments of absolute embarrassment. The toxicity in this group is more often than not people having a bad day rather than people having a bad personality.
Your first paragraph sounds a lot like how I used to carry myself when trying to help others back in WoW, and how I'd like to carry myself going forward into FF when I eventually reach a point at which I can help others.
And yeah the last one is I guess just your average "decent" player. Wants to clear content, but is still a human witha full life of moving parts at the end of the day. :P
That last paragraph is how the last three hours of farming P10S went for me tonight. hey, we got one clear.... and I lot the lost on tank hands again....
I play with a group of people like that. The mentality for them is 2 part.
One, they have already cleared the tier and they are trying to optimize strats. They do this by just going into PF and doing whatever they tell them. The idea being "If PF can do it then it must be the easy way"
Two, they used to be toxic and a GM kidnapped them and told them to cut it out, they learned their lessons XD
Asmon is a WoW player and variety streamer. He was never going to stick with FFXIV and will never stick to any other non-WoW game.
I think you're right! But I suppose he might have stuck around in FF a little longer given different circumstances - but then again who knows!
Joke’s on you, he won’t stick with wow either, lol
@@JustRuss No... As someone who's watched him a while - He wouldn't have.
I don’t watch Asmon that regularly and I knew he wasn’t going to stick with it. He wasn’t that invested in the game or the story which meant his views from Ffxiv players were going to dwindle quick. This is how he judges whether he will keep doing content or not. He keeps moving. He keeps trying to to find new stuff to do. WoW is his home, every other game is a passing fancy. Just how it is.
Anyone who thought he was going to keep playing is just not that bright.
I just kept wondering when he was going to stop. How far he was going to get. We could’ve had a gambling pool.
@@screamosaicyep! He doesn’t even stick to wow, it’s just his roots. He’s variety.
No bad intensions towards Arthars at all, but I can't agree with him on most things he says whenever it comes to WoW and FFXIV being discussed, he can be very biased.
But some things he says I do agree with, it's just there are some definite hot takes.
Oh absolutely! Everyone has some cooked takes here and there. I know he does play both games, but I'm not clued in on the extent of his WoW experience and therefore his ability to speak on it! Just like myself the FF i suppose :P
He's a great guy, but he has some wild hot takes about WoW vs FFXIV for sure. I've seen some other streamers hear his takes, want to explain his point of view to be more neutral, and then awkwardly paused as they struggle to figure wtf even was his argument.
He's totally worth watching overall, people just gotta keep in mind that some of his takes are pretty wild and controversial.
Arthars has good points some times but most of the time hes just giving hot takes
hahaha so i've heard :P
I apologise for the unsolicited wall of text if I do press send on this. I know you read all your comments, but feel free to skip this essay.
First off all, we have to be honest about one thing. A big part for us emotional vampires witnessing a Sprout's Journey is the spectacle. We stay with one streamer over the other for various reasons, but the one we even start looking is the spectacle of going through these things again with a fresh perspective. We want to see someone who doesn't have the knowledge we do be hit by the same beats that got us. To that end, we help them progress without any hitches.
Once that is done, the next spectacle is the one of the fights. Extremes, Savages, Ultimates, you name it. For that end, we can get extremely pushy.
Along each step of this journey, people join and fall off. With very suspicious clustering around specific moments. Some you have seen, many you have yet to reach. With the most drastic rises and drops being after the base Expansion and its .3 patch (the bulk of the story and its conclusion). Viewership climbs back up nearing .55-.58, aka when the next Expansion starts, but the numbers don't necessarily stay after it does.
This is the general cycle of a streaming Sprout and many of Arthars' points stem from it.
But the real question is what happens after everything. How many stick around and what happens to the motivation of the streamer? Have they managed to build an actual core? Will they keep going despite the numbers being much lower than they might be used to?
I know I witnessed both a stream and a streamer crash after finishing Shadowbringers. Not many stayed and the streamer was rather competitive with likes and viewers during the journey. Nothing astronomical, but the egging to reach 100 likes on youtube before the stream actually started was a real thing. So there was a longer hiatus that I didn't stick around for when the eventual crash came. And when I looked at their channels last month, no FFXIV content remained and they had pivoted into a different direction. That's just how things go sometimes.
Which brings me to you, Russ. Finally, I know. You have completely embraced the meme of stalling. Made it your own in many ways. But the most notable thing you have done is that you have skipped to the last step. By doing the things you really want to do the way you want them and not letting yourself be pushed towards the spectacle and, honestly, eventual burnout. Which isn't to say that the Fights are not spectacular to watch. However. Doing them blind *with* a *_blind_* party takes away A LOT of the "magic" that is a quick and (mostly) clean progression. Because most do not want to see the struggle, they want to see the clear. That you are still doing it regardless has led to you not only building your community "early," but reducing your viewership almost entirely to it. So when you grow, it is much more likely to stick because it isn't built on the sticks many other people had as foundation. So.
Well done and here's to your continued success!
Thanks so much for this comment! I really appreciate you taking the time to write it all out.
And I completely agree - and that's actually *why* I take my time too. I know there will be rises and falls in viewership but my trump card to that is essentially "Am I having fun myself?" and I always choose my content based on that.
I'll get to the big moments when I get to them is the way I see it. And the core will be built, and the people who are just there for it will come and go like you said. I will of course try to retain a % of those people, and hope my content fits their vibe long-term. But I can't count on it at all.
And with doing all my content on MINE, and blind. Well that's more of a personal thing and I like to challenge myself, alongside give people the opportunity to participate in it at a slightly harder difficulty than is usually available (I don't think there are many groups for this kind of stuff in general). It's less of a flex and more of a "I did it yay!" to myself.
Anyway thank you for this. Was a great read!
@@JustRuss Glad you liked it. The video and your commentary got me thinking and looking at what I have seen and am seeing, so I had to type things out to order my thoughts. Which... can get long.
And you definitely have found a niche for yourself in doing these fights blind in their "natural progression." I'm waiting for Dawntrail to do it myself. There still are some blind progression parties in PF, but I'm more focused on preparing for that new Expansion. Making your content all the more interesting!
You read every comment? Well Hi russ! Really enjoy the content! I also used to play WoW casually (quit after MoP when I went to college) and have absolutely LOVED the FF14 community. Really just wish you all the best!
I do! Thank you so much! Glad you are enjoying both the game itself and my content!
Can confirm Russ reads every comment. I commented something on a video that's a few days old and not even the latest video, and he still replied to me, and then replied to my reply to his reply.
To add to the stuff Arthars said, I think Russ is one of the few people who has positioned himself in such a way that it's hard for people take credit away from him. He makes mistakes and flaunts his mistakes proudly. And you can clearly see the gears click in his mind as he picks up a lot of stuff. He's not someone getting carried through everything so he can speed through the game, he's not someone pretending to be blind progging everything, he's not just doing whatever his community tells him to, he's just a guy playing through the game the way he likes and sticking to his own principles.
Haha bang on, appreciate this comment! 🫡
You have nothing to worry about before Dawntrail, since most of the community is sleeping. It's the breath before the storm. But... what's crazy is that Dawntrail is going to be next-level FFXIV. They're planning on releasing every kind of content they've released in the past, plus MORE new stuff. The biggest expansion to-date. If that actually happens then I believe the game and the playerbase will be bigger and busier than it's ever been. Buckle up and hold onto your seat. There is a before and an after expansion-release, and it will be a new experience for you since you missed Endwalker's release. Be prepared, shit will get wild
I definitely share the mentality of just scream at your monitor to get the anger out instead of sending something in chat. There have absolutely been times where I questioned how someone has made it to level 90 in this game. Certainly not my proudest moments.
Some of them I think levelskipped. Others just got carried. I've heard horror stories of someone trying to heal the Nier raids as a Conjurer... meaning no job stone.
@@psymar Oh no D:
@@psymar I can totally accept the level skip theory, I’m not a fan of it personally but I understand why it was incorporated. The conjurer though… that’s just pure idiocy or trolling, and I’m likely leaning towards trolling at level 80 content
I legit had this happen in an Expert duty the other day. I was laughing so hard because this Bard was basically doing 15% of the damage I was. At least that's my guess. The dungeon took 5-6 minutes longer than usual. I have nfc what they were/weren't doing. I couldn't even get mad. It was just hilarious.
26:33 😂 the mogstation reaction broke me. Overall, I hope you enjoy the game to the fullest :3 I can't wait for Dawntrail 🎉
I certainly am so far! GL in dawntrail, see you there in a couple years lmao
@@JustRuss I will say it only gets better. :3 see you there then lol
People with experience with other mmos saying things are bad in FF is really valuable I don't understand why people get mad about it. Fresh eyes making criticisms is good because long time players might be blind to it.
Yep, as the saying goes competition in creators is always good for the consumers
That kind of emotional knee-jerk reaction to criticisms happens in literally every community. It's just become a running meme that the FF community is somehow way worse about it, so confirmation bias means that any time you see 1 guy doing it, suddenly it's the whole community doing it. Not to mention some of the times I've seen people claim this have just been bollocks claims in and of itself. You'll have people intentionally trolling and misrepresenting the game only for people that actually play it to respond reasonably and get hit with the "FF cultist" label. It's all so tiresome.
Thanks for the vid, nice insights!
FF does have a great community. Everyone has turds but yeah the “level of escalation” is much different here.
Glad you’re still enjoying your journey. Good gaming Russ!
Thanks! And glad you enjoyed
I have to deal with 23:00 in a diff game that I play. It's definitely a tough avenue to navigate. Kinda why I cut off viewer games as a whole and only play with top players I know now. When are doing big things as a creator & got all this stuff going on sometimes you gotta just make proper changes to accommodate for what you are trying to do with your community.
This video was VERY insightful for me! Appreciate all the perspective & such! ~ Day18 Sprout :]
Where you at now Russ? I’ve been enjoying your vids lately. Hope all is well.
Lapsed on the YT a bit but working on getting things back up and running
I would recommend you to watch some of Xenos’ vids. He has some very HOT takes too.
hhaah i might have to!
Russ - you will be fine until you finish MSQ and are doing current Savage. That's when you risk crossing the line I reckon....
Yeah, so I've got a couple years before I have to worry then :P
@@JustRuss No comment... :)
The community in FF14 is absolutely incredible. I've had one instance where someone reminded me of why I got tired of the WoW community. But it wasn't even a big deal. Everyone is incredibly helpful and patient. Once in a while someone leaves a group because they wiped one time while everyone else either is laughing about or is like "we got this!".
Yep it’s really refreshing coming from WoW!
I’m not sure if you’d see this Russ, but the issue comes down to trying to please everyone all the time. You do you, after all that’s what brought people to you in the first place (and the algorithm). You can’t please many people these days because there are people that are born into this tech mess that get a kick out of dislikes and antagonistic comments. If you do what they want you’ll ostracize the others. Stay true to yourself, and don’t worry about naysayers, because a majority of the time they are a VERY small minority. People will continue to try and create your path and throw wrenches in the mix, but do your best to tell them to “fuck off” with a smile on your face.
Thanks for confirming this! These were my thoughts too, like I mentioned with the "one guy" thing in the video. Gotta do what's best for the masses, and yourself. But never can please everyone, and certainly don't listen to the minority.
I will continue to do so with a smile on my face haha :D
@@JustRuss Oh, and cut your hair ya hippie!
I sometimes feel like people assume I'm just being that 'one guy' and it's happened enough that I make an effort to phrase my statements clearly : I offer advice to help people enjoy the game regardless of which approach they choose, which includes warnings for things to avoid for whichever route they take. I suppose many people construe this as "don't play that way" which wasn't the intent, but I want people to be able to make educated decisions so they know if they do play in certain ways they may have less fun or may have more friction with other players. I'm sure I've commented on several of Russ's videos by now, and I hope that overall my comments have been seen positively. If not, I'm sorry it certainly wasn't my intent.
I do think there's a certain divide in the community that Arthas is talking about, the stream-oriented community vs the game-oriented ones. There is the overlap in that many people in the stream also play the game, and many people who play the game will watch and interact with streams, but how they approach the other side will differ. For my part, I consider myself a mentor and I strictly approach stream interactions (including VODs) with that mindset, trying to help people improve their experience. Where I think the stream-oriented folks have a lot of other priorities trying to create an experience that uses the game as a medium but treats it as more of a background to what the community is trying to do.
I only make this distinction here because it's not usually recognized when people are generalizing commentary/criticism as 'the community'. I've sometimes disagreed with comments directed to FF players but realize that it might apply more specifically to stream lurkers who happen to play the game. Asmongold in particular I think was victimized by the people who populate his chat and who happened to have access to the game, far more so than he was ever bothered by the average FF player.
I'm not really sure what to do with this understanding, though. I just try to be the best mentor I can be, trying to avoid being overbearing. I feel bad when 'the community' doesn't feel the same obligations and drive people away, which does happen and is a shame when it does.
In my opinion, as long as you are trying your best to stay true to your values and goals, and framing things like your feedback positively, rather than in a way where it feels arrogant and intimidating - then that’s all you can really do. Whether or not people choose to take your advice is on them. And if they take offence that’s a then issue for it being a hard pill to swallow. Those wanting to improve will listen, despite maybe being initially stubborn to the idea that they are not as good as they thought.
Anyway I think you are speaking correctly on this with your words so keep it up!
@@JustRuss I'd like to add that I appreciate your patience in actually reading/ responding to 'essays' like mine. It's a bad habit of mine but it does feel good if someone is able to make use of it.
The earlier ults (cough, UWU in particular) you can definitely get carried lol. Later on though, no you cannot. everybody needs to know what they're doing.
I intend to not be carried myself personally, as it takes the fun and also sense of achievement out of it. But I totally get that there are people who will be okay with it if said piece of content is a means to an end, for example the cosmetic appearance. I cherish the satisfaction of the kill!
@@JustRuss yeah it's also the satisfaction of knowing you put in the time and dedication to learn the fights. I've done UWU & TEA so far, working on DSR now with my static and it's a lot of fun. It's definitely more rewarding at the end of the day when you're flexing your Ult weapons knowing you put in 100% of your own effort to obtain it, at least imo.
@@pongmagick7256 absolutely agree!
O best example of this was Zepla she couldn't clear DSR and parts of 1st savage raid abd her party dispanded and she went full 100% toxic on xiv . It bit her in the ass as people have never gone back since.
@@Smallville619 ??? But she did clear DSR. Do you mean TOP?
ngl, i read the thumbnail as "never cross the hair line" becouse of Arthas hand position and Asmond bald jokes
LMFAO ok i laughed way too hard at this
Just wanted to say I like watching you experience the game for the first time. Bad apples exist in every community, and the high-end of FFXIV can definitely be a bit gatekeep-y. Don't let anyone stop you from trying any of the content in the way you want, there is absolutely nothing stopping you. And no matter how you choose it, don't let anyone take away from your achievement. Players will go "oh, but it was harder when it was new" or "oh, but you were carried". At the end it doesn't matter, because you did it, fullstop. Also on a side note from one youtuber to another, I recommend you shorten your titles even if that makes them less descriptive, give it a try
Thanks for this Jolsn! Glad you're enjoying! I'll keep that in mind. I've definitely been getting much better at not letting people push me around.
Also, Love your vids (I watched your rare achievements and ui guides!), will defo try out that tip
Asmongold is in a position where his community is very divided where you've got WoW andies throwing up pitchforks showing tribalism. Then you've got FF14 andies who can't handle hearing their game has flaws or seeing a streamer get streamer privilege. FF14 does have Streamer mode & regular mode based on your community but that does not validate giving a streamer a bad time. He stepped away from FF14 because both sides were after him and didn't allow him to just enjoy the game.
Yeah I think you put it pretty well here! Backed into a corner, its easier to just bust down the wall and leave.
My issue with the ffxiv community as a sprout is that they don’t give me advice. They are so scared to offend, they will allow you to fail a mechanic over and over and not say anything. In one dungeon, myself and another dps failed a certain mechanic I hadn’t seen before and I asked in party how to do it, and the dps was like “I’m not sure”. But I noticed the healer was a mentor so I was like, “hey you’re a mentor, how do we do that mechanic?” And they just ignored me. I was like, good talk! And then I will see videos on UA-cam of mentors making fun of people for not knowing how to do certain mechanics. I’m just like, mentors are great aren’t they? But that could just be my experience with them so far.
As far as I know, a LOT of mentors just do it for a mount or something, the icon and a mount, without the intent of helping other people. But I can assure you there are certainly many very helpful people around. Feel free to join my discord and ask away with any questions and I'm sure multiple people will be willing to answer and help!
It used to not be, honestly, but yeah. Over the years SE has made it clear that you can basically be banned for explaining a mechanic if the other person interprets it wrong, so no one speaks up
Most mentors arent really "mentors" and often play worse then normal players. The mentor crown (aka burger king crown) is just a thing you get while you play casually along. You dont have to do any meaningful challenge or such. Most people have it turned off because its more or like a thing that isnt worth anything.
also the issue is that there are console players who avoid typing bc it takes too long to chat in console, main reason why i play in PC, i am very social and i msg alot of randoms if i like or if i am bored, i dont get responses and few tell me they cant actively suggest or speak bc they are on console and its hard to type and chat.
@@ed-xf5qn I actually started off on console myself. It’s only like $10 to buy a wireless keyboard. But now I play on PC- a mini pc (NUC 11 Enthusiast) hooked up to my TV. So practically the same setup before, just much more powerful lol.
I saw this happen in real time. I was a big fan of scottzone and thought he brought a real breath of fresh air to the 14 content creator scene. This was before the big wow exodus and there weren't a lot of new content creators. He got bullied out of content creation exactly because of these reasons. He dared to have opinions and constructive criticism about savage raiding and a certain group of players took it very personally and lashed out. It was very disappointing.
Sorry Russ, my monitors have had to take enough abuse because I've had to modify them for my use case, you're just gonna have to live with catching strays. 😂
LMAO spare the sprouts!
In game, the FFXIV community is great. I did all the group content via Duty Finder and never had any problem.
The vast majority of those who watch streamers play FFXIV are great, too; e.g. the Grinding Gear audience.
But the FFXIV version of 'that one guy in chat' can be something else altogether.
Stalling winds them up no end, but it's also a way to get rid of them if you can stand your ground.
Yep I had a pretty sizable drop off in stream viewership once people worked out that i'm going to take my time and play how I want to play, and not any shit haha
However there's still a huge portion who remained and those are the ones who bring me the positivity I enjoy anyway so i'd say I'm pretty blessed
Tbh I feel like there's this weird thing when it comes to FF14 stans, regular players give them too much control and fear them way too much when it's just words on a screen. In any other game you would just make fun of someone blindly defending the game like it's their first born child and move on with your life, but FF14 Stans have this weird strangle hold over regular players and streamers especially.
It's a weird phenomenon to me.
Definitely. It's what first put me off ever touching this game actually, back in 2021 or so. I was a little scared of the culture in some places.
Youre going pretty far out of your way to not get carried. Its ok to get carried a little.
But i love this culture you're trying to build to get new people into raiding and taking the game slow. If only you were on NA, id be all about it.
Thanks! I'm glad to be able to use my platform for something good and also give back to the folks who take care of me. Hopefully they will implement cross region more than just OCE eventually and then you can totally get involved!
Failing that, I have a ton of viewers who have made EU alts to play alongside me! :D
That 1% only ever watchs msq vods and if theres 1 sec of react or side questing the scream in comments or chat that your not playing the msq
Fortunately I haven’t experienced much of that
nice seeing you stil plaing :D
myself trying to "force" myself back >,> i dont think i be able to finish end walker in time guess my curce of alwais beeing one expanchon behind, wil continue ^^"
wish youu and your vuers loats of fun!
Oh wait till the 9th month. That’s when the real vampires come out 😂
The 9th month D:
I really can’t understand badgering someone for not playing the game the way you want them to. Yes, there’s a part of me that would be sad if someone just went through and skipped all the story but it’s their game. They get to play it the way they want to. I’d much rather have nice people to play with, even if they enjoy different things about the game than I do.
Russ plays FFXIV like how Asmongold should have. Maybe a bit faster, but that's the general way of how he should've approached it :'D
Stalled for 22 minutes. thats gotta be a record lmao
You’ll be happy to know this original segment took just under 2 hours but I cut heavily for UA-cam 😂😂
Asmongold literally quits everything he plays. He's a horrible example to use and he most certainly NOT has crossed that red line in arthar's video. He is a reaction streamer who ocassionally plays variety games. That's it. He doesn't play WoW or FFXIV regularly and hasn't played WoW regularly literally for over a decade. This guy arthars is a clown and he's talking specifically about a streamer's journey. 99.99% of the playerbase do not relate to that list this guy is writing out on his video. The bottom half of his list is also completely wrong when applied to asmongold. Asmongold hasn't done difficult PvE content in WoW since 2010. And he absolutely, 100% does get carried when ge comes back to wow for his semi annual one-week of playing. He doesn't even hide it, he welcomes it and encourages it. Funny, maybe that's why he quits the game in one week. Did that ever occur to him?
Never forget this is a dude who, along with esfand, played during the fresh phase of multiple versions of classic, unironically demanded all phase 1 bis loot be funneled to them, and then quit a week later. There's even a stream of esfand raiding Naxx during P1 of WOTLK with a guild who wasn't his own since he missed his guild raid that week. The BiS ret 2h dropped and the guild ofc catered to Esfand by giving him the axe "if he promised to raid with us instead of your guild from now on". Naturally, Esfand quit the game the next week and never logged on WOTLK again. This is why people in the wow community despise streamers, they've totally brought it upon themselves. Especially within the classic community, I would argue that these classic wow orbiting streamers don't even like the game anymore. They just like the "fresh" aspect of a new server, that first month of a new server. One month in, every single one of them has fully quit the game and moved onto something else. What does that really say about your claim of "loving wow" if you quit right when the game gets to its best via end game raiding/pvp?
that dude is toxic af
It's gonna be quite a while, but you doing criterion could be cool
It's on the list! (it's a little way down tho haha)
hi chat :)
hi -from chat (jk its just me)
hiiiiiI!
The problem is people play with you as they want clout. And you get carried were non streamers put in the time
What clout are they hoping to gain long term, really? If it were other streamers trying to be on my stream all the time, you might have a case. But these are literally just players who can’t to help out and be part of something bigger.
READ THIS BUTTS LMAO xdx
LMAO PEE PEE POO POO xffing
Arthas is wrong, when asmongold quit ff14, it was becuase wow players made characters quickly to get him to leave and play wow again.
Russ you say you like 99% of the community, is the 1% the erp side? or is it in the 99%?
I only meant the positive/negative mindset (in my limited experience so far) I know a load of people who ERP and they seem pretty nice haha
fppong pausing
the ff14 community has some real weirdos in it, and they are quite aggressive. the kinds of people you would never talk to or even come into contact with in real life. streamers are trying to vibe with whoever is participating because its the best way to grow the stream, but make themselves vulnerable to these people who 100 % fail the eye test irl.
even the community's shining beacon of positivity (name unnecessary) lost their way and quit the game amid the toxicity of failures during hard content. its the weird ass people playing and idolizing this game.
Every mmo has zealots, just gotta block em out. Dunno why its so difficult for people to do it in this game when its so easy to do in others.
Cult btw
Its not! Smadge
@@JustRuss It is
@@ElixarMari ONE OF US ONE UOF US ONE OF US
it's fine for the most part until real world politics comes into play. It's far left toxic behavior where they attack you for vales you have they don't share. Or shove thier ideology down your throat and than when you say something they say keep quiet or something stupid. FF14 I don't bring up politics and ideology until a player does. Streamers do this all the time where they talk politics of the real world yet say no politics as a rule. Rule for you not them.
ok but didn't you just bring up politics?
@@JustRuss I used examples that most streamers do or the space many fall into. This does not imply you do it, I have not seen enough of your content. However I take what a streamer says with a grain of salt until proven. You talk about the 1% being bad and used back seat gamers and someone not liking your hair color as examples. I highly doubt those are only the two. Do you have a twitch? Do you have rules in those rules are they political? For example if you say you must refer to pronouns than it's political and alininates a large population of people. It's like Nexus saying it was open to opinions when they are not. Or when they said no bigots while being bigoted and banning different religious beliefs that was harming nobody.
The only 'politics' ive come across in FF was someone advertising their FC and saying communists and people with pronouns cant join. I told them im both so i cant join sorry!
@@MidnightEkaki Oh my. Who's going to tell them they have pronouns?
It sounds to me like you don't like people with autism 😅
That's not really what I said