The Power Forward Position is DEAD...
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2023
- Babe wake up the power forward position died
#powerforward #basketball #nba
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I think Aaron Gordon was key at PF for the Nuggets
but russel westbrook averaged a triple double
but George gervin got 4 scoring titles
lockin KD up lol.
He's a Hybrid Forward.
but he primarily plays PF
@@UnCharlie He doesn't shoot or dribble well enough to be a true 3. He's a mobile 4 who's slightly undersized.
I think GSW really pushed this idea more especially in 2015 and 2016 when their death lineup occured playing with 3 forwards on the floor.
Seen Klay listed as "PF"..
😂
Correct me if I’m wrong but could it be said that 90’s and 2000’s and earlier, power forwards were players who could typically shoot from midrange but not from three, rebounded, posted up, and defended the paint but not the perimeter or rim?
If so, then I could see why this wouldn’t be as valuable, because the midrange game isn’t something opposing offenses use as often as they did in earlier decades so the defense would be an awkward fit, and they wouldn’t give you much spacing.
The lamarcus Aldridge and trae young clip looks like a dad playing against his son and letting him win lmao
He didnt even mention David west, Rasheed Wallace and Amare Stoudemire. The era was stacked.
Elton brand , Kenyon, boozer,
Zach Randolph as well
The 90's had better talent.
Charles Barkley, Shawn Kemp, Karl Malone, Derek Coleman, Chris Webber, Juwan Howard, Vin Baker, Cliff Robinson, Kevin Garnett, Larry Johnson, Tyrone Hill.
Props to Otis Thorp, Dennis Rodman, Charles Oakley, Tom Chambers Roy Vaughn and Kevin Willis.
Paul Millsap carlos boozer elton brand
That being said, the reason why versatility matters at the 4 is that they combine size, skill, and athleticism into one package, not just one or two at a time. Look at Lauri Markkanen and Aaron Gordon. They're not just springy sky demons, nor are they just spot up wings. But they can alternate between those modes if needed. That's the type of flexibility that teams are really looking for.
Yeah it's not like 4s went away as much as 3s got bigger and centers got more skilled
Makes a lot of sense, I didn't really consider that
@@toastedt140In other words, less versatile big men got weeded out in the 2010’s?
tbf, the older PF archetypes still exist nowadays, they are now just called small ball centers
for example I think Bam a few years ago would be a PF due to his mobility
@@bender4183Bam is literally Amare Stoudemire.
@@terrancevanliew1814no he’s not they play nothing alike lol
I’ve heard more people say that traditional centers died than traditional power forwards.
What was the biggest difference in position expectations between a four and a five when the league cared about positions?
@@fortynights1513 4's were generally more mobile and less physically imposing.
I cant believe Caleb Martin is a power forward.
I can't get enough of your "Sup Dude" intro. Great vid as always, Goober!
1:38 "There really arent positions anymore, its just 4 perimeter players and a center"
lololol🤣🤣🤣🤣
Mike D'antoni's Phoenix Suns really changed the game.
The 4's of the 2000's and mid 2010's morphed into todays 5's. But not in all cases.
Jaren jackson jr, Evan Mobley, Aaron Gordon, Kyle Kuzma, Lauri Markkanen, we do have a fair amount of 4's left.
They are definitely a dying breed though.
Are the players you named guys who can’t shoot and aren’t as versatile defensively?
Kuzma and Gordon would be sf in the 90'
Kuzma is a 3!!!!
Wait, Giannis is a 4 tho. He definitely tryna keep it alive
@@bossmafia9008 yup. Another one
ZBo and Lamarcus Aldridge were 2 of my favorite Power Forwards
I remember Nowitzki, Duncan and Garnet switch from PF to Center 7-10years before they retire
I think one of the biggest constraints is the lack of mid-distance shooting. Since players like KG or Dirk generated their points individually. Since it is very difficult for a person of that size to generate his shot in the 3 point line
Ima miss the power forward position 😢
Giannis, Lauri, JJJ, Aaron Gordon, Randle, Zion, Mobley, Siakam, Banchero. I could go on. It's not a dying position at all. Title is highly overdramatic.
If anything the position is coming back stronger than ever. The closest the PF position was to ever being "dead" was early-to-mid 2010s. There was only like 4-5 actually high-level PFs in the whole league (Cousins, Blake, KLove, Aldridge, maybe AD if you count him as PF and not center), and after those guys the PF talent pool fell off super hard. Seriously at one point guys like Al Jefferson, 39 year old Tim Duncan, and David Lee making all-NBA teams.
Compared to back then PFs, and honestly frontcourt as a whole, has been thriving.
Point forwards are the wave now
If only players today also learnt how to play at the post as well as a players did a few years back instead of just practicing the stretch big there would be more points up for grabs and people watching the NBA, I mean look at Centers like Embiid, and especially Jokic who could bully ball and get high 20s or 30s and get crowds to show up, and erawise their Post game is pretty good to great compared to past greats.
As for the PF position, AD and Giannis proves how important is to still have that Big Forward in the paint, they're exciting to watch too, and someone like Zion 40 games a season Williamson shows that Bully Ball is very exciting, you can have someone like Barkley and he'd be amazing today and somehow coaches and players don't see value in it.
Well centers like embiid and jokic are generational talents so their post ups are just so much more effective then a lot of other players could ever be. It makes sense that offense has moved away from it for efficiencies sake. An avg wing will do more for you in the pick and roll then an avg center in the post.
Ad is a 5
@@themingxhe5330his organic position is the 4
@@erenjager4698 Offenses today have changed the way they did due to rule changes, Pre 2010 you still saw lots of PFs playing like traditional Big Men and getting higher FG% and TS%s, it's just that culture and rule changes really made a huge emphasis on wing offenses that Big men like whom I mentioned are starting to get spotlight, with the flopping rule and stricter officiating, and probably empowering defense I think they'll make a comeback.
It's not that they can't learn post play, it is just objectively less effective offense. The game's scoring explosion in recent years is from RESEARCH, not just more lax rules. Research concludes that any action that uses up the shotclock and doesn't produce either 3 points or a foul is inefficient. The 01 Lakers were the first team to realiy drive this home.
Sure, a team with a talented big that can realiably score on 60% of their isos is better than a team with
Remember then Spurs played 3 centers line-up? Basketball Reference remembers
Shawn Kemp, Rasheed Wallace, Charles Barkley, Dennis Rodman, Karl Malone, Larry Johnson, Charles Oakley, Zach Randolph. James Worthy, Marcus Camby, Stromile Swift and the list goes on....
Kevin Garnett
Marcus Camby is a center what are you smoking? Second, strongly swift? Really? I mean I like him he’s a good dunker but he didn’t do shit in the nba
@@subzerofromny735 Number one... Marcus Camby like Tim Duncan was a starting power forward and center, too. If you didn't spend your time sniffing around for another chance to be combative... you probably would have known that too... but you can't save face on that... you just embarrassed yourself.
Number two.... if you think stromile swift was garbage and couldn't get anything going... you probably would say the same about Karl Malone too...
Not only did Stromile put the hammer down on beast mode... he had a jumper, great rim protection, good defense and was on the boards too.
I accept your apology...
But, slow down, keep your head up and find something better to do.
@@misterclutchabc you do know they were both top 3 lottery picks right? And they both underperformed as the top picks. Camby I can give a pass since he did win DPOY, but what achievements and accolades does swift have? Hell has he even been in the playoffs?
Stromile is the 2nd of only two players to make it to the NBA out of his hometown in Shreveport, LA since Robert Parish. He put a 30 piece lemon pepper wing special on Seattle and 8 piece chicken nuggets of blocked shots on Philly.
0:20 this bit is what makes me stay to the end of video, I knew it was gonna be a banger
edit: 3:20 hol' up wait a minute
Dwight has been sued twice by dudes who claim just that 😭
😂😂😂
I was thinking about this the other day, through the wire ranking PFs and I just sat there thinking who even is a PF, there's hardly any
You didn’t think too hard buddy
Playing a 3 at PF doesnt count lmao @@Yungteasipppppa
@@werdumed6665 giannis, AD, Myles turner, KAT, lauri markkenen, the list goes on
@@Yungteasipppppa Keep going then please, you listed 2 centers in your very small list
@@werdumed6665Giannis, AD, Jaren Jackson Jr, Evan Mobley, AG, Rob Williams, and Draymond
Dirk wasn't even guarding Timmy!? How TF is that a duel then??????
Duel between who can outperform who and carry their team to victory?
That’s mainly because Tim was actually a center and played more seasons there than pf especially when David retired
A crucial detail is the illegal defence rule that prohibited helpside defence. This made post play so much easier as only strong side double teams were allowed, which the post player could see coming. Since thibs started icing pnrs and overloaded the strong side with an extra defender the paint was essentially locked up if you played two post players. And thus the space revolution started to counter this. Orlando and Miami were the early adapters. Okc somehow never got the message and foolishly gave up stretch 4 Jeff green for limited post bully Kendrick Perkins. Sure he could guard Duncan and zbo but not bosh raining threes.
AK47 was a SF, dude.
0:38
"over time, more n more big dudes started slingin it"
Just earned yourself a sub, buddy.
Good video. I have been saying this for 2 years now. There's a SF and a TALL SF on the court now.
Good content, love it
The Heat moving Bosh to the 5 was important too
This
Good video!
Nice vid mate
Great content
3:20 Wow. Just wow.
3:20 Ayoooo ⏸⏸⏸⏸⏸
PF isnt dead, you can just as easily call alot of the centers today a PF. If not, then what the hell were Karl Malone, Kwame Brown, and the many, many other 6-9-6'11 bigs in the NBA. In my view anyone in that height range who has the quickness of a PF is a PF. I know it gets sticky with centers mixed in, but there does need to be a more clear definition, as PF can be both offensive and defensive as well
Those are centers. Pf is dead
@@Chronz Aaron Gordon?
@@Chronzcalling a 6'8-6'9 player a center is laughable
@@freshswagga100 You go ahead and tell Bill Russell, Wes Unseld, Ben Wallace and Bam Adebayo they can't play center.
If we really wanna be honest…. It ended with KD lol. Now the 4’s have to be able to do it all and have guard skills too.
Wemby and Jokic bout to start a point center trend
you say this now but dominayton @ the 4 with the blazers is going to go timdirk garnettakoumpo on fools and ressurect the 4
also shoutout scottie pippen for inventing the point forward position and (defo alongside horry) starting the shift that killed the 4
dope vid goob
stay healthy
we love ya
3:25 😳 - excuse me? Lol
now they are just Forward "NO MORE POWER"..
Remember those videos about the end of the center position? Nobody is making those videos anymore.
3:23 AYOOOOOOOOO
Goober please make a video on Meadowlark Lemon.
Both Paul George and Jayson Tatum have been listed as PF in lineups before.... That's the epitome of the new era.
Would they be the three in the 2000’s?
3:23 Dwight was doing what???😂😂😂😂
He so wild for that, he knew what he was doing!!
Being back OG PF
I think this dude made his video after looking at Boston's starting lineup. I am not quite convinced they're going to pull it off like that. Two wing forwards in Tatum and Brown, instead of the traditional small/power forward pairing is less effective, particularly on the boards. Even if NBA nowadays is more position-less for dynamism, the traditional skill sets required per position would always be critical in close game scenarios. Time will surely tell. New NBA players need to be jacks of all trades, but master of one position.
You're right.
Ngl I feel like every position u can name the best players who played that position but a pf u rlly gotta think😭
All time or current? It's Giannis currently and Duncan all time easily no hesitation there.
@@NotGord duncan was a center not a power forward
@@Yungteasipppppa He played more games at Center but he was at his prime/peak as a Power Forward.
@@lebronfan8051 lebron on the heat was also a power forward and that was his prime too so in that case lebron is the greatest power forward ever
it's funny people talk about 'positionless basketball' like it's an evolution, when that's what basketball was in the 40s before Mikan's pivot dominance changed the game. The lack of post dominance is a regression, not a progression.
thank u goobgawd🙏
👐
we need more uploads goober
ummm... I do not think The Orlando Magic stated it the Wing - 4, . The Phoenix Suns kinda did the prototype way way back with Amare Stoudemire at the 5, Shawn Marion at the 4, Joe Johnson at either the 2 or 3, then Steve Nash at the 1 spot, their 5th player was a revolving door of players. In the later years, Boris Diaw was incorporated into it as their Center.
you kinda right cuz the only players i know that are pf are giannis, pascal, mobley, and lauri bruh😢
Zion, Gordon, Randle, Kat. Idk about the position being “dead”
KAT ain't no real Power Forward
Tom Chambers is the first stretch 4
More valid in like 2021 than now. Teams are valuing size again
as a PF in my highschool days coach would snap at me if I ever attempt to shoot 3pt or far midrange. now youth and highschooler probably encouraged to shoot more.
Would they be discouraged from posting up today?
@@fortynights1513 it's really dependent on the coach, some still loved old school way while some follow 3pt trend where bigs hold the ball and pass
@@thankyouverymochiCould having a big who can shoot, pass, post up, or finish offensively be a good quadruple threat?
Anonymous professional athlete here and the same thing happened with me. I remember I wanted to expand my game. And one of my coaches told me “you should be like KG, 70% in the paint ,30% outside”. Now I regret listening to him lol.
@@fortynights1513 yes, but don't expect coach to play or build around you. unless you perform consistently coach wouldn't make you his star player. as bigs, you need to be effective and simple. jokic is simple and effective.
Good video
Love goober videos
Make a video on ak 47 you silly goose
Honestly the 5 positions have always been a pretty clunky tool, even back in the great PF era people were arguing Duncan was actually a center. Just like now, back in the 80s and through the 90s and 00s you had a lot of players that played both SF and PF (they called them "tweeners") like Worthy, Schrempf, Cliff Robinson, Kukoc, Marion, ... And I'll be damned if you can conclusively explain to me the major difference between a SG and a SF.
Going by guard-wing-big works better even if it's not perfect. Really it's sort of a spectrum that goes from short dudes who handle the ball to tall dudes who block shots, and everything in between is sort of awkwardly slotted in these artificial positions that didn't even really make sense back in the 60s (Elgin Baylor).
Can’t forget about my boy kiki
I watched Godzilla vs Kong for the first time today.
Dwight Howard wha???
Nice video goober
They just moved the power forward down to the five it's really a missing center. There's 😢only like two legit star centers in the league embiid and joker the rest of them are PF masquerading as center
11. Oil is orange
sup dude
people will give the GSW the credit to changing the league but really it was the hand checking rule and letting big guys stand in the paint. As the greatest shooter Steph would be gimped if his threat to slash in to the paint wasnt a problem and obviously it would be harder to shoot with a big mother fucker having their hand on ur chest.
dirk always played like a small forward
TBH I'll trade for bol bol and tell wemby and bol idk who play PF figure it out
Guess you haven’t heard of Paolo
3:23 pause
ok
Amazing comment
fr bro
Wow what a comment
Ralph sampson?
Still not yet watched the video entirely, but I have this sentiment that the poer forward is the most awkward and tweener position in basketball.
sup dude?
Day 5 asking goober for a Ben Wallace video
Bro i thought kg was dead jesus bro
Um probably not dead but not insanely high you got triple J Giannis Arron Gordon Davis even tho he been a center and Draymond and well I guess Victor sense the spurs are gonna play him at the 4 but unless it’s not suppose to be modern day 4’s
Akumopo
Timmy was a Center
Giannis is 100% a power forward, he plays next to Brook Lopez a lot
Dwight Howard doing what down low
What crap is that....a kid that understands the game through the modern interpretations of "evolution" of basketball 🏀....the US team had three classic power forwards in their roster - Jackson, Portis, Banchero - and just one center. The real difference was that the various Malones, Kemps, Oakleys, Mahorns, Grants, Cages, Gilliams (RIP) etc were really POWER, not soft
Giannis
Giannis?
GOOBER I’m sorry I’m like 10 minutes late I was helping my dad
Size really matters in the playoffs. Twin towers are gonna make a comeback pretty soon
This take might be hated on but KG had more skill than Duncan. He just didn’t have the system and the talent around him till late in his career.
all the positions are dead
Exactly and is makes for a more dynamic, fast and enjoyable game in my view. Decision making, broad development of fundamentals, thats how every player should be developed. In countries like Serbia this has always be the way
Bro huh 😭 the guard position is at an all time high in terms of talent same goes for the forward position, just like every era some positions are competitive, others aren’t
Aaron Gordon just entered the chat
Giannis, Lauri, JJJ, Aaron Gordon, Randle, Zion, Mobley, Banchero, Siakam, etc. are 100% power forwards. It's not a dying role at all. Stop the clickbait.
SF and PF being interchangeable isn't unique to just the forward position, every position in basketball has become interchangeable. A lot of PFs now slot in as center. Even when it comes to backcourt SG and PG don't really matter (Curry playing PG). Hell even Ben Simmons a 6' 10 guy who can't shoot plays PG primarily.
The modern NBA in general is positionless really. Power forwards still exist, they just aren't as strict of an archetype and have slightly different roles. These days "small ball center" is usually played by a power forward. Same shit different name.
it's dead in the NBA but not in other international leagues
Its not dead like is aaron gordon not an nba player or what?
goober i made you a custom nba goober 13 shirt what’s your po box
Fr?
Goober posted, time to slaughter a goat
This is horrible analysis, PF's aren't dead, they've just evolved..
Nah bruh..giannis a pf
Best player in the Nba is a power forward
Isn’t Giannis a PF lmao