Stock Preamps vs. External Preamps (Golden Age Project Pre-73) [Pedalboard Tips #26]
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- Опубліковано 16 вер 2024
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Acoustic - Stock Preamp - 1:20
Acoustic - External Preamp - 1:56
Acoustic - External Preamp (more coloration) - 2:32
Ambient guitar - Stock Preamp - 3:08
Ambient guitar - External Preamp - 3:46
Ambient guitar - External Preamp (more coloration) - 4:24
In this video, I am testing the stock preamp from my audio interface (Focusrite Scarlett 6i6) vs. external pre-amps (Golden Age Project Pre-73).
I want to demonstrate what is the difference in tone between pre-amps so you can decide if you need or not to spend money on external pre-amps.
This video is more targetted for guitar players, as the examples are only on acoustic and ambient electric guitar.
Tell us in the comment section what do you think. Is it worth it to spend money on external pre-amps? Is the difference in tone worth the investment for you?
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Through original ambient music, chordal guitar lessons and tips on guitar pedals, Antoine is looking to educate and inspire aspiring ambient musicians to learn everything about the world of ambient guitar and chordal voicings on guitar.
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in the context of a whole mix the external preamps with tubes/ transformers will stand out and sound much better. transformers/tubes add weight/heft that when compared with single tracks may sound subtle, but those slight harmonic differences cut through better in a full mix...and when you do this to all the tracks in your session, 50 subtle changes make a big difference
That's exactly what I was telling to another viewer in the comment section! Great observation. In the context of ambient guitar with a very small mix, the question: ''is it worth it'' is still relevant.
I've actually heard to the contrary by producer Joe Barresi that using the same pre-amp across the entire mix will create an unwanted buildup of colour. so yes you can find great results using a nice pre for certain elements of your mix, but you shouldn't rely on the same pre to track everything in your mix
well said brother
@@simonaustin1136 bx_console with TMT. problem solved
@@simonaustin1136 I found this to be true. For my latest single coming out, I use a GAP Premier 73 for lead Vox, and my Sonic Farm Xcalibur (could have used my Audio Interface Pre) for background overlay vox in some areas. I recorded a few takes, same mic, 2 pre amps. Using the different pre amps added extra separation that really helped reduce muddiness and helped keep the lead Vox detailed. The GAP 73 has so much saturation (sexy saturation) even on low drive settings, that using it on another vocal took away it's power somehwat on the lead.
I noticed a lot more transparency and crispness with the GAP pre-73 over the Scarlett preamp. This said, that means everything you plug into the GAP pre amp will render the quality of your signals more clearly before they reach the A/D converters. This transparency means a reliably stable signal that more precisely converts into a digital waveform. This quality difference can be much greater than is, on the surface, always evident.
You can definitely hear the difference on the ambient guitar section.
Hey man. Good video. I thin you achieved a good comparison. Its important for people to understand cranking the output vs input on these transformer based preamps. It can make a huge difference. Thank you.
I have 2x pre73 mkii. I LOVE plugging my pedalboard with Strymon Iridium cab sim straight into them and cranking the gain to get some transformer compression. They add a really nice sound. I run them into my focusrite 18i20 gen3 and add the air setting. ITS AMAZING!
Will have to go back and forth between the audio but what a great comparison, very well done. If everyone who attempted a comparison video did it so competently we'd have a very useful directory on UA-cam. (Just so happens it's also the very same interface I have and the exact preamp I'd consider buying :) )
Worth it! The extra presence, coloration and the capability of connect external processors (like compressors, eqs, etc) in a dedicated external preamp worth it!
short: yes. finally a good video about external preamp. thank you!
It was a kinda good difference. very subtle, but the sounds with the golden pre sits better and image better. As its part of the source, driving the actual mic, it is hard to get that push that sounds natural after the fact with processing without loosing naturalness or losing "artifact headroom" if you will
I personally really, REALLY love the warm tone that the GAP pre-73 has when you drive the gain up. I've been meaning on improving my audio quality as I own a Behringer and hearing that plus the fact that it has a DI feature built in makes me really tempted to get on in the future! I know what I'll buy next!
When you played the arpeggios with the externals I heard myself say "Wow".....then thought....."I need to get me one of these."
Same here. I ordered the Golden Age Pre73 Mk.III a while ago via ebay and got the Golden Age EQ73 in Reverb.
The Golden Age Pre73 (especially on the ambient guitars) had a much more professional sheen to them. When stacking tracks that will really show up.
Outboard gear sounds more structured and full. Highs are less harsh and mids and lows have more body and warmth. If you're recording music with simple arrangements (like I am) it will pay to get a decent pre. Great video, thanks.
Does totally matter wich outboard
Great Video, I use a Pre 73 DLX with a Rode N1A for my Voice! What a great combination!!
I'm sure it makes a greater difference on voice to catch all the details and low-end!
Damn. Everything through the Pre 73 sounded BIG by comparison. I wasn't expecting that. I would think of a "vintage" sound as... coloured, distorted a bit. There was power and presence there. Bigness and warmth and body.
As far as I know, the internal Focusrite Preamps already are very good. However - and this is only based on my own experience - there is a little bit too much noise when you put much gain on the preamp. But this is not something to be concerned about when recording guitar, as the instrument is already pretty loud so you don't have to crank up the gain.
Thanks for this very objective video, Antoine
I would have to say, the Pre-73 is noisy too when cranking up the gain, especially when making the transistors work more by reducing the output. You can't crank the gain indefinitely and think you're not going to amplify the noise with it!
Also microphones are noisy by themselves...unless you have a TLM103 or a hi priced brauner....but in this case you don't need to crank the gain!
As I did not see any significant change in the sound quality,I might say that in this particular case of recording acoustic guitars,there is no point on throwing the money needed to buy the Golden Age preamp.
I didn’t noticed much difference is it may be both sounds where pass through other hardware before it was then passed through the golden age ?
Maybe I am not as experienced compared to some when it comes to studio recording, but I think the sound quality from both stock and external is great. As far as picking which one to use, I guess to each to their own.
Sometimes, just a small detail in quality doesn't make a difference on one track, but it does make a difference on the cumulation of 50 tracks. It all depends if you're recording for big mixes or small mixes. I think the comparison is fair to make for ambient guitar, because we usually make some minimal music and mixes. So it's fair to ask ourselves if it's worth it for the music we make!
You make a good point. I never looked at it that way. Thanks :)
Nice vid. I'm looking to buy this. You definitely get a bit more crisp detail on the high end with the GAP.
It matters far less than mic choice, but I like to use transformer input pre's with lots of headroom. Very much wire plus gain.
I know this is an old vid, but I was looking at buying either the GAP Pre73 or Warm Audio WA12 for recording mic'd acoustics. I was listening to this comparison on my studio monitors... and I really didn't notice as much difference as I was expecting. After hearing this comparison, I am starting to second guess myself and seriously questioning whether this preamp is really worth the cost.
Really good video. That last Ambient guitar sounded phenomenal. I’m debating whether to get one. As much as I love the sound, I have the Slate bundle that has a total of 5 virtual preamps which includes 3 virtual tube preamps. They don’t sound quite as good as this one tho..:hmmmm
Some difference in detail. A little creative EQing would get you closer. Converters/clock make a difference as well.
The answer depends on the application. I have 6i6 myself too (2nd gen) and have been having an eye for this GAP73. My key decision would be the Shure SM-7B in my drawer. If I were to just play guitar I would stick to stock ones in the Scarlett. This is actually what I've been doing -- getting a preamped signal from my pedalboard and use VSTs for the effects. Anyway, if one has a dynamic mic which is very hungry for gain, IMHO maybe the GAP73 is the better choice.
Hint: if possible, show your signal chain next time. It seems you got your acoustic guitar from a DI box -- i.e., I have judged based on the XLR but of course I may be wrong about it. I couldn't guess from the video.
Good video nevertheless. Cheers!
Oh yes, totally forgot about the signal chain!
Acoustic: AKG Perception 220, so not D.I.
Electric: Shure SM57 microphones on both amps
...into either the Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 or the GAP Pre-73.
Thanks for pointing that out!
Nice. It is clear now. Thanks for the reply!
3:08 3:50 4:24
BAM I really noticed the difference when I heard the ambient stereo guitar on the 1073; the tape warble and crinkle you had dialed in... just showed UP! (if you listen back really pay attention to the sound of the ECHO on the ambient guitar in headphones between the scarlett and the 1073 switch... you'll hear how that information really wasn't there!) I'm kinda surprised I didn't notice as much with an acoustic given the transient nature of that kinda guitar is very natural and you'd think artifacts would really make that one more apparent...
Also, I did enjoy your Ambient stereo tone mate, I'm guessing it's a digital source? Those aren't live amps recorded are they.. Or was that the Styrmon plugged directly in? Just curious if you had a noise gate on it bc it's really quiet behind the echoes, and sounds really clean like it's direct, but the tone sounds analog you know?
Thanks for the video!
It was 2 real amps, and the low noise is courtesy of my Suhr guitar noiseless system pickups!
Monochrome Seasons yes indeed, after thinking a while on it I came to that conclusion also.. I own an El Cap - such a gorgeous tone (better than the timeline to my ear, but I've never owned one so..).
..& I'm glad I asked now, bc I have a couple of strats I might be swapping guts out for.. might compare those to Lollar (funky blues rock Floydish), but the frequency seems VERY well balanced on your recording.... Plus I know Pete thorn is a lover of Suhr..
Pete Thorn is awesome! But also endorse by Suhr, so he might be a little bit biased ;) he can make anything sound good and musical!
I also owned both the El Capistan and Timeline, and the El Cap wins hands down for me!
Nice video Antoine! The difference in sound is pretty subtle, and they both sound great! Do you own any other external preamps? Or what made you decide on getting the pre-73s?
These are the only I ever owned. I decided on them after reading some nice reviews, and also because I could get a pair used for half the price. If you notice, one is a version one and the other is an MKII, and the LEDs are not working on one of them. Doesn't matter if the rest works well!
+Monochrome Seasons I have three quite old Alesis NanoCompressors and the LED's no longer work on one of them. I just route the signal through one that works and then copy my settings across. Better than throwing it out!
That would depend on how much more was spent. The pre 73's sounded really good though...
Not going to lie, they're pretty expensive for a small home studio!
How did you patch the GAPs into the Focusrite? The video of the Focusrite shows two cables plugged into the front inputs, but only the first input seeing signal. If the GAPs were patched into the second front panel input, they're running through the Focusrite's mic preamp which invalidates the test.
This is an old generation Focusrite 6i6. They have line inputs on the back that don't go through any preamp, so that works to connect any external preamp!
Your chops and tonal technique makes alot more impact than this really subtle difference between the stock and the preamp which in the end you can still match up with some post thang like adding saturation etc... Is it worth the money.. well personally NO!! I think the instrument ( guitar, bass, sax, etc.. ) and mic make more discernable difference than the preamp.
I thought the focusrite covered the spectrum nicely. no need to purchase another pre, if you find the sweet spot on the converter
Rocko Zipzone I bought them at first because I needed to record with 4 microphones in a session and I didn't want to buy a new interface with more preamps. I also wanted to compare if there was a difference of quality, but that wasn't the main reason of the purchase!
Difference between pre 73 & pre 73 mkII ??
Me too!
Have you tried Sennheiser e906 mics?
Your meter was barley registering any level on the GAP73....plus you had the output cranked all the way. The idea is to dial in your colour with the knob on the left then control your output level with the knob on the right. You barley had the meter even registering a sound as the first light barley flickered. Sorry man, but this was not done properly.
YES!!!
The microphone is more important than the preamp.
What was the microphone you used?
he used the same mic.
Hey, thanks for your video. What delay do you have on the ambient guitar? Sounds like tape in my ears...
Léon Yes, tape delay from the Strymon El Capistan!
Léon yeah good ear! We were both just discussing that.. that how great the El Cap is and to my ear outstandingly DYNAMIC delay it is (sadly without the option for ping-pong in stereo mode for obvious reasons, but still, the echoes aren't like a lot of delays that somehow kill dynamics (no ducking?) and fade in a completely linear volume type of weird way!).. "Don't listen to what the haters say!"
Nicholas Paris Actually those delays keep the original dynamics hence they feel less musical that the ones that compress the repeats, like most tape delays do (real or good emulations).
I feel like i hear a louder hum with the pre amp
do i need a D.I to use it? Or can I plug it straight to the mic
I plug a mic straight into it!
And yes it’s totally worth it . If you have ears , you know it’s worth it. Stock preamps are worth shit.
The problem of distortion through USB and operating system issues means an external pre is worth it. The coloration is one aspect, but everyone sounds like Intel instead of valves.
USB and operating system have nothingto do with coloration of the sound. The last coloring effect happens in the AD converter of the sound card and the rest is just digital data flow. However if the computer can't handle the data flow correctly it will drop samples and then you get clicks in the signal (if new neighbouring sample values are not logically next to each other) and syncing issues with other tracks or video. Since preamps - soundcard integrated or external preamp - are before the AD converter and in analog path, if you have USB and OS issues then external preamp doesn't make any differece since it's not part of the digital signal chain.
Gap preamp wins easily
Crank the pre and lower the output and let us hear that
diregremo I know im kinda confused the 2nd test that was supposed to be more of the pre he turned the knob more to the negative side.
@@TriWaZe On the MK1 the switch is MIC/LINE and the sensivity increases counter-clockwise. MK2 has switch LINE/MIC and the sensivity increases clockwise
What were the GA preamps recording into the pc with?
any standard audio interface you can use
i could list to gutar all day long
The Pre 73 is a great booster if you want a louder more powerful sound, this vid does not show that as he does not show the difference in volume that is greater with the pre 73 added, also if you really want a better quality sound you need to also upgrade your DAW and get some good eq, those three things will improve your sound way more than just adding a pre amp alone, but the pre amp is a vital piece of equipment if you are serious about your recordings
how do you know what DAW he has and what version.
Dont need to upgrade your daw. Unless youre using Audacity or some very limited free shit...
cf. magurk effect
Yes for a true test, the pictures should be swapped over (i.e. show the Pre73 when the Focusrite is being used and vice-versa... I suspect plenty would still reinforce the one they think is the external Pre). I have a GAP Pre73MkII and it is nice and it does make a big difference to certain sources ... but the comparison is hard against references that are MP4 / youtube sound compressed quality as in this video. Good video nonetheless)
Forgot to also say ... it's the McGurk effect not Magurk
As I didn't hear much of a difference I'd say spend your money on more important stuff.
I feel pretty much the same about it. Especially when you're starting your recording career, a basic interface will do the job without external preamps.
The different is big. But plug in will destroy it then. When doing a crucial project you cant get nice ambience with stock preamp. For close miking stock preamp is decent.
I hear the difference with just my android speaker
@@nidaulmillah4452 that's a blanket statement to say so about all stock preamps. Alot of audio interface preamps are way better than most dedicated preamps these days. Plus, the difference is very very subtle and nothing an eq can't match up.
@Antoine Michaud How does it go with sm7b?i do have a cloudlifter which i plug directly into ultralite mk3 hybrid but i was looking for something that adds warm sizzling color n gives good amt of clean boost.does it do that?please answer my curiosity.thank you
It has enough gain to use it without a Cloudlifter in my case. I only talk through the sm7B, so if you're asking for vocals or any other instrument through the sm7b, I can't really say!
3:08 3:50 4:24