Chris, I appreciate how you approach these situations with conviction, and compassion. You are a respected leader in this sport, and I would also bet among your legal peers.
How awesome is Tyler Searle and Soar Disc Golf for stepping up and running this tournament? Tyler is one of the best ambassadors of disc golf that I know!
Agreed, he's getting so much cred for stepping up on this (and it's earned of course). If we reward Tyler by buying discs from him, then I think the world is right. :)
Thanks for offering an honest take on this drama. I always appreciate hearing your balanced, and fair approach to reporting on the goings on and educating without bias or judgement. You the real G. I can't stand being on any of the social media disc golfers are on, it's ridiculous and pushed me off too many times. Left all the groups and just like to see your vids once in a while for an honest what actually is happening truth. Thanks frisbee lawyer! 🎉
Finally, a good take on this topic. This financial practice is COMMON in the industry. For an Independent Contractor, registration fees are income. Income can be allocated however it needs to be in order to continue day to day operations, provided the buyers receive the products they paid for. I don't think JRay should get off freely, but I don't he's a criminal by any means. He's embarrassed, and upset, that he couldn't continue his day to day operations. All business owners would feel this way in the same position. He deserves grace, because he's going himself up more than anyone else will.
So, enter any tournament at your own risk. PDGA and Dominant brands bear no responsibility and you have no recourse if the TD is financially irresponsible, "comes on hard time", or is just a thief. Hey, let's all go to the carnival and play the ring toss for $150. Thankfully, Tyler stepped in to save the day.
It's good to know that from a legal standpoint, nobody would be able to do anything about this. Now, if you excuse me, I've got to go set up some tournaments and book a flight to Cayman Island 😅
I have no idea what the timeline for the PDGA Disciplinary Committee will be or if there will be any transparency, but I am definitely expecting a long ban/suspension from running events.
Could you look into and compare what went down with Jordan Castro? Word was that he also “stole” tournament entry fee money. I could be wrong of course, I just heard that. I know he was suspended as such.
Best channel on UA-cam. I appreciate your calling balls and strikes here legally. It takes a lifetime to build a reputation, and a moment to lose one. I do get the ick when bro-ey hobby communities rally around one of their own when that person has clearly done something wrong. I'm not saying that Mr. Ray should be burned at the stake. But the rush to defend him makes the whole sport look like chintzy frisbee hour compared to other sports.
As a long time disc golfer, club president, and TD to numerous tournaments (sanctioned and not), I think the biggest problem for TDs in general is that disc golf is too cheap. Running a (decent) tournament takes a lot of time and effort and is rarely financially worth it. Selling discs also takes a lot of time and energy and is rarely financially worth it. I'm sure JRay was doing something he loved and was probably just barely making ends meet for years. If you're just barely living and then something like a medical bill or a car break down happens, suddenly those ends are no longer meeting. From there, it's a downward spiral that is extremely hard to get out of. Hopefully the damage from all of this is minimal for everyone involved and JRay can pick himself up, learn from mistakes, and move on with his life.
The PDGA should also look into changing its rules on tournament funds and how / where they can be spent. The fact that a tournament director can effectively use all of the registration money on what ever they want seems to be a bad plan. I think its okay to take profit, but that should be after the tournament is complete and payouts have been made. at least this way the money for the tournament would legally be there and if a new TD is needed, it can be an easy switch. I agree that the PDGA is limited to what it can do currently if the tournament was actually cancelled, but that should change moving forward by adding new rules and regulations to protect players.
It seems to me he could have reached out to someone to take over for him, and avoided this issue outright, and work with them to pay them back. Soar Disc Golf is apparently doing this now as a result of the backlash, but prevention is better than treatment.
Great breakdown, from a legal perspective. However, I have a feeling we’re only getting part of the story. I personally think the medical issues were stress/worry/anxiety related, due to losing the majority of that money from sports betting. New truck, new camper and then the gamble on 2024 being like 2023, from gambling success & event success. I don’t have a dog in the fight, but I just wish those who trusted him at least got the full truth.
Out of curiosity, if the event hadn't been bailed out by Soar, would his conduct amount to 180 misdemeanors, or 180 civil cases of breach of contract (or something of the sort)? Sadly, I've seen this sort of financial mismanagement in other arenas. Businesses fail and leave their final customers hanging. Contractors are notorious for taking money for a new job to finish to previous job. People robbing Peter to pay Paul, who think they can turn the corner and get ahead -- until the moment they can't.
The situation you posed isn't the same. The one you proposed is about property but this is about goods and services to a customer. In this case the customer receives what they paid for it was just given by someone else in his place.
The "misusing of funds" thing isnt criminal in perspective of law but it is devastating entrepreneurially-speaking Using funds from one thing to pay off another venture isn't bad morally, just bad from a business standpoint.
The problem here is setting a precedence and a past practice. What happens down the road when someone gets away with mismanaging $80k of players money? Or $100k? I personally think an example needs to be made of Jonathan Ray in order to preserve integrity. When we get on Disc Golf Scene and send in our money for tournament entry fee, we need to know that we can trust the TD who is receiving that money. A lot of the time we have no idea who the TD is, we just want to play the tournament without worrying about our money. If Jonathan Ray walks away from this free and clear, who’s to say someone sees it happen and intentionally does what he did to scam people out of money. Then stands back and uses the Jonathan Ray excuses because it worked for him???
I look at the story overall. He did some great things for disc golf it seems for years. This year however he somehow got into financial trouble and somehow $27k was missing 9 months in. Now he should have realized really early on he was bleeding money. If he had bills that weren't expected that should have been known to him ahead of time as well before he paid them. Isn't hard to look at your bank account and see number go down and realize you are in trouble. What fuels these thoughts is him admitting to doing it for years saying he would use the funds to fund other tournaments and he'd make it back and be fine. So he knows where he normally is sitting at as far as funds. It should have been clear way earlier that he had issues. At the very least the PDGA needs to permanently ban him from running PDGA events. He should also be suspended for at least a year from even playing in any events. He has shown he isn't financially reliable enough to run an event and there has to be some other punishment for him losing $27,000 in tournament funds. The ban on running events itself would not be the punishment it would be the result of him showing he isn't financially responsible if that makes sense.
I think the biggest issue in the argument of misappropriation of funds has to do with using tournament fees for personal use rather than business. Certainly in business you make investments in one area to fund another quite often, but you don't mix business and personal expenses. That's where you get into trouble.
You are implying the funds went exclusively to fund other tournaments, however from Jonathan's initial post, we are led to believe they also went to his personal expenses and were not inherently separated entities. This is where many take issue and you seem biased by not acknowledging this fact.
He never once said he spent the money on those medical issues or any other personal things. He explicitly said he spent the money on other events earlier in the season. He goes on to say “because of personal medical issues, higher costs and much lower participation in our sport I just couldn’t catch up.” Not being able to run events to catch up because of medical issues isn’t the same as spending business funds on those medical issues.
Chris answered this question when he was on the Ultiworld Disc Golf show a week or so ago. What he said was basically that it did not matter what Jonathan did with the money in between collecting the registration fees and running the tournament, as long as the tournament happened and all the registrants got what they were promised (players packs, payout, etc).
@@devlin76 You seem to be confusing ethics with legal liability. Just because someone may avoid criminal or civil liability, doesn't mean it was ethical.
@@devlin76this needs to be fixed. Maybe by 1099 the TDs as employees of the PDGA and the fees are paid to the PDGA directly that way finances can’t be misappropriated
People seem to miss the fact that the money stopped belonging to the players the moment they hit the payment button. They had in fact exchanged it for good and services to be delivered at a date in the future. Also,, he owned and operated a business entity that was in the business of running tournaments and selling disc golf paraphernalia. That he used registration fees from one tournament to finance others and buying inventory to sell is just normal way to operate. Seriously, you don't expect your favourite airline to only use what you paid them to operate the airplane you are sitting in while you are sitting in it?
What you say is true. But, if Tyler had not stepped in, those goods and services would not have been provided. People have every right to be pissed off.
I agree with grace and mercy, I think people can make mistakes and while they should be held accountable for their actions, we as people can still treat them with a certain kindness. That being said, if I understood what you are saying correctly, the only reason why he is not getting charges filed against him is someone bailed him out. Correct? At that point, there would have been victims so there would have been a crime, or am I missing something?
Yes, if he did not get bailed out this would have been considered theft. It would be up to the local DA to decide if they want to bring criminal charges.
I agree with DG.L's judgment. This guy has operated for 10 years without a hitch. Now he is going through, apparently, a rough patch. Show some mercy and compassion and do not always assume the worst of the worst. Hopefully there will be little harm done eventually.
it's not uncommon for organizers to use funds to run a tournament....... not everybody can front a couple of grand to cover every associated cost....if that's required you'd have about 20-30% less tournaments annually......this wasn't a Ponzi scheme....no intent only a gamble and some bad breaks in life
Life is hard sometimes and this guy doesn’t appear to be trying to steal money just didn’t have things go his way. Glad this other company stepped up in a big way. Props to them!
150? Like ok. Why do they pay it a year in advance? Or at the beginning of season? This tourney is so much different than any I've ever seen. Like yes I'm just a bum ass am in kansas but I've never seen more than like 80 dollars? And it's almost always more like 45-65. I've always just paid for the tourney like a week or two out, not the whole season. Is the 150 and paying a season in advance common? IS this tourney really THAT great?
I’m in Northern California and most tournaments around here sell-out within a few days to a couple weeks after going live on discgolfscene. It’s all about demand.
Always steal tournament fees. There's no point not to do it. Just get a buddy or two to send enough mini discs and towels for a players pack. And be really sorry about it.
Well, that just opened the door for a lot of con artists to become td’s and scam players out of money by never delivering the product. If there are no consequences then it will be done again and again.
If that happened, the Con Artist/TD could be prosecuted for things like fraud and misuse of funds. And the players could sue, though hiring a lawyer to try and recoup $150 would be inefficient. The PDGA probably needs to add a few more rules and restrictions on the money side of things, at least for A tier tournaments.
This dude just straight up stole from everyone and we're supposed to feel bad for him?! Nah what he did was scummy, he knew he was doing it the whole time it, wasn't some sudden mistake. He should be charged with stealing 27k just like he did, then once he pays it back then we can talk about forgiveness. He needs some form of punishment besides just not being able to run events
I seriously doubt you’d be singing this tune if someone had stolen 27,000$ from you. If I’m wrong, I’m homeless and could use 27$ from all disc golf enthusiasts for good clothes and shelter. I’m not a thief, I don’t use drugs or alcohol and I’m a spiritual renunciate.I must say it sounds like that man’s medical condition could be medical marijuana. And, it sounds like you are condoning his act of thievery?
Might want to read up on mismanagement vs conscious theft. If your bank investment scheme goes belly up.. do you have the bankers arrested for theft.. or investigated for mismanagement... it seems a LOT of people here are confusing the intention of outright steeling with business as usual as per the previous 10 years but this year things went wrong... (And the medical issues didn't help matters but be wary, this does not mean the money was spent on them... but how much money do YOU make in the weeks you are sick.
@TheButlerNZ justifying theft of someone's money, whether it be $1 or $1000 based on intent is a bad take. So, hey, give me $150 and you can come swim in my pool. Oh wait, the pool doesn't have any water in it. Oh well, thanks for the dough.
@@JAFO2024 More info needed... If he used the money for his own purpose, it's theft. If he used it for other events. It's mismanagement. From initial info it sounded a lot more like mismanagement... but some are now saying he used it for his own companies etc (I am not stating facts, just rehashing others hearsay). A lot of people assumed he used it for his health issues but in his initial statement he stated that he didn't (but of course health issues didn't help bring in the replacement funds). Basically what I'm saying is... If your not a lawyer involved in the case, anything we say is just rumour and should mind our own business, not just blurt out that someone is guilty without the actual facts.
Chris, I appreciate how you approach these situations with conviction, and compassion. You are a respected leader in this sport, and I would also bet among your legal peers.
Thanks for the earnest look at the situation... we can all use more grace and mercy!
How awesome is Tyler Searle and Soar Disc Golf for stepping up and running this tournament? Tyler is one of the best ambassadors of disc golf that I know!
Agreed, he's getting so much cred for stepping up on this (and it's earned of course). If we reward Tyler by buying discs from him, then I think the world is right. :)
Thanks for offering an honest take on this drama.
I always appreciate hearing your balanced, and fair approach to reporting on the goings on and educating without bias or judgement.
You the real G.
I can't stand being on any of the social media disc golfers are on, it's ridiculous and pushed me off too many times.
Left all the groups and just like to see your vids once in a while for an honest what actually is happening truth. Thanks frisbee lawyer! 🎉
Finally, a good take on this topic. This financial practice is COMMON in the industry. For an Independent Contractor, registration fees are income. Income can be allocated however it needs to be in order to continue day to day operations, provided the buyers receive the products they paid for. I don't think JRay should get off freely, but I don't he's a criminal by any means. He's embarrassed, and upset, that he couldn't continue his day to day operations. All business owners would feel this way in the same position. He deserves grace, because he's going himself up more than anyone else will.
So, enter any tournament at your own risk.
PDGA and Dominant brands bear no responsibility and you have no recourse if the TD is financially irresponsible, "comes on hard time", or is just a thief.
Hey, let's all go to the carnival and play the ring toss for $150.
Thankfully, Tyler stepped in to save the day.
Thanks for speaking truth in love. I am confident that no one wanted to see this play out this way.
Nice clarification of the situation and related issues.
It's just wild to me that disc golfers put a person's reputation before not allowing that same person to steal from them.
It's good to know that from a legal standpoint, nobody would be able to do anything about this. Now, if you excuse me, I've got to go set up some tournaments and book a flight to Cayman Island 😅
Well said. Thanks for yet another great video.
I think a fair punishment would be either a lifetime bad from running pdga sanctioned events or at least a lengthy suspension.
I have no idea what the timeline for the PDGA Disciplinary Committee will be or if there will be any transparency, but I am definitely expecting a long ban/suspension from running events.
Could you look into and compare what went down with Jordan Castro? Word was that he also “stole” tournament entry fee money. I could be wrong of course, I just heard that. I know he was suspended as such.
I been waiting for this video
Best channel on UA-cam. I appreciate your calling balls and strikes here legally.
It takes a lifetime to build a reputation, and a moment to lose one. I do get the ick when bro-ey hobby communities rally around one of their own when that person has clearly done something wrong. I'm not saying that Mr. Ray should be burned at the stake. But the rush to defend him makes the whole sport look like chintzy frisbee hour compared to other sports.
As a long time disc golfer, club president, and TD to numerous tournaments (sanctioned and not), I think the biggest problem for TDs in general is that disc golf is too cheap. Running a (decent) tournament takes a lot of time and effort and is rarely financially worth it. Selling discs also takes a lot of time and energy and is rarely financially worth it. I'm sure JRay was doing something he loved and was probably just barely making ends meet for years. If you're just barely living and then something like a medical bill or a car break down happens, suddenly those ends are no longer meeting. From there, it's a downward spiral that is extremely hard to get out of. Hopefully the damage from all of this is minimal for everyone involved and JRay can pick himself up, learn from mistakes, and move on with his life.
Tldr:
I want to barley make a living do a passion of mine, therefore if I stumble into hard times I can misappropriate funds.
Got it, thanks!!
Great video and I agree with your assessment.
The PDGA should also look into changing its rules on tournament funds and how / where they can be spent. The fact that a tournament director can effectively use all of the registration money on what ever they want seems to be a bad plan. I think its okay to take profit, but that should be after the tournament is complete and payouts have been made. at least this way the money for the tournament would legally be there and if a new TD is needed, it can be an easy switch. I agree that the PDGA is limited to what it can do currently if the tournament was actually cancelled, but that should change moving forward by adding new rules and regulations to protect players.
PDGA doesn't care about the players. As long as they get their membership fees and sanctioning fees.
It seems to me he could have reached out to someone to take over for him, and avoided this issue outright, and work with them to pay them back. Soar Disc Golf is apparently doing this now as a result of the backlash, but prevention is better than treatment.
Great breakdown, from a legal perspective. However, I have a feeling we’re only getting part of the story. I personally think the medical issues were stress/worry/anxiety related, due to losing the majority of that money from sports betting. New truck, new camper and then the gamble on 2024 being like 2023, from gambling success & event success.
I don’t have a dog in the fight, but I just wish those who trusted him at least got the full truth.
I'm asking out of ignorance. Were the sports betting and other things hypothetical? Or can you verify?
Out of curiosity, if the event hadn't been bailed out by Soar, would his conduct amount to 180 misdemeanors, or 180 civil cases of breach of contract (or something of the sort)?
Sadly, I've seen this sort of financial mismanagement in other arenas. Businesses fail and leave their final customers hanging. Contractors are notorious for taking money for a new job to finish to previous job. People robbing Peter to pay Paul, who think they can turn the corner and get ahead -- until the moment they can't.
Wait. So if someone bails you out its suddenly not a crime?
Technically, no.
This exposes PDGA for what it is.
He cancelled a tournament, someone stepped up to put it back on. Did you watch the video?
@joeexoticstiger3544 yeah. But if I rob a store and someone else re stocks the store on their dime. The store was still robbed no?
The situation you posed isn't the same. The one you proposed is about property but this is about goods and services to a customer. In this case the customer receives what they paid for it was just given by someone else in his place.
The "misusing of funds" thing isnt criminal in perspective of law but it is devastating entrepreneurially-speaking Using funds from one thing to pay off another venture isn't bad morally, just bad from a business standpoint.
The problem here is setting a precedence and a past practice. What happens down the road when someone gets away with mismanaging $80k of players money? Or $100k? I personally think an example needs to be made of Jonathan Ray in order to preserve integrity. When we get on Disc Golf Scene and send in our money for tournament entry fee, we need to know that we can trust the TD who is receiving that money. A lot of the time we have no idea who the TD is, we just want to play the tournament without worrying about our money. If Jonathan Ray walks away from this free and clear, who’s to say someone sees it happen and intentionally does what he did to scam people out of money. Then stands back and uses the Jonathan Ray excuses because it worked for him???
I look at the story overall. He did some great things for disc golf it seems for years. This year however he somehow got into financial trouble and somehow $27k was missing 9 months in. Now he should have realized really early on he was bleeding money. If he had bills that weren't expected that should have been known to him ahead of time as well before he paid them. Isn't hard to look at your bank account and see number go down and realize you are in trouble. What fuels these thoughts is him admitting to doing it for years saying he would use the funds to fund other tournaments and he'd make it back and be fine. So he knows where he normally is sitting at as far as funds. It should have been clear way earlier that he had issues.
At the very least the PDGA needs to permanently ban him from running PDGA events. He should also be suspended for at least a year from even playing in any events. He has shown he isn't financially reliable enough to run an event and there has to be some other punishment for him losing $27,000 in tournament funds. The ban on running events itself would not be the punishment it would be the result of him showing he isn't financially responsible if that makes sense.
So I get that the other guy is refunding/hosting the event, but does he just get to keep the 27k? That doesn’t make sense.
That’s between him and the other guy stepping up.
I think the biggest issue in the argument of misappropriation of funds has to do with using tournament fees for personal use rather than business. Certainly in business you make investments in one area to fund another quite often, but you don't mix business and personal expenses. That's where you get into trouble.
If he stole $27,000 would that not be a felony? I do not know...
It might be that he stole $150 (a lot of times).
He "stole" $150 a bunch of times not $27,000
new infinite money hack. Become a TD, take all the entry fees and skip town
You are implying the funds went exclusively to fund other tournaments, however from Jonathan's initial post, we are led to believe they also went to his personal expenses and were not inherently separated entities. This is where many take issue and you seem biased by not acknowledging this fact.
He never once said he spent the money on those medical issues or any other personal things.
He explicitly said he spent the money on other events earlier in the season. He goes on to say “because of personal medical issues, higher costs and much lower participation in our sport I just couldn’t catch up.” Not being able to run events to catch up because of medical issues isn’t the same as spending business funds on those medical issues.
Chris answered this question when he was on the Ultiworld Disc Golf show a week or so ago. What he said was basically that it did not matter what Jonathan did with the money in between collecting the registration fees and running the tournament, as long as the tournament happened and all the registrants got what they were promised (players packs, payout, etc).
@@devlin76 You seem to be confusing ethics with legal liability. Just because someone may avoid criminal or civil liability, doesn't mean it was ethical.
@@devlin76this needs to be fixed. Maybe by 1099 the TDs as employees of the PDGA and the fees are paid to the PDGA directly that way finances can’t be misappropriated
@@joshstorms1131 and what if the PDGA goes bankrupt financing prior events...
People seem to miss the fact that the money stopped belonging to the players the moment they hit the payment button. They had in fact exchanged it for good and services to be delivered at a date in the future.
Also,, he owned and operated a business entity that was in the business of running tournaments and selling disc golf paraphernalia. That he used registration fees from one tournament to finance others and buying inventory to sell is just normal way to operate. Seriously, you don't expect your favourite airline to only use what you paid them to operate the airplane you are sitting in while you are sitting in it?
What you say is true. But, if Tyler had not stepped in, those goods and services would not have been provided. People have every right to be pissed off.
I agree with grace and mercy, I think people can make mistakes and while they should be held accountable for their actions, we as people can still treat them with a certain kindness. That being said, if I understood what you are saying correctly, the only reason why he is not getting charges filed against him is someone bailed him out. Correct? At that point, there would have been victims so there would have been a crime, or am I missing something?
Yes, if he did not get bailed out this would have been considered theft. It would be up to the local DA to decide if they want to bring criminal charges.
Had the players not been able to recoup their funds would they have been able to band together to take him to small claims for that 27,000?
Yes, but the juice would not be worth the squeeze. The 27k would just go to the lawyer and if he is bankrupt anyway good luck getting anything
We need a King of Memphis open or something MANE
@@hectorc5990
Memphis
And
Nothing
Else
If he declared Bankruptcy wouldn't he have to list the players as creditors?
He seemed the medical issues had to do with why the money was gone.??
Can't wait for all the armchair and facebook lawyers to eat their words and apologi... nevermind, that won't happen.
I agree with DG.L's judgment. This guy has operated for 10 years without a hitch. Now he is going through, apparently, a rough patch. Show some mercy and compassion and do not always assume the worst of the worst. Hopefully there will be little harm done eventually.
it's not uncommon for organizers to use funds to run a tournament....... not everybody can front a couple of grand to cover every associated cost....if that's required you'd have about 20-30% less tournaments annually......this wasn't a Ponzi scheme....no intent only a gamble and some bad breaks in life
Life is hard sometimes and this guy doesn’t appear to be trying to steal money just didn’t have things go his way. Glad this other company stepped up in a big way. Props to them!
I've known JRod for over 12 yrs and played around Bud Hill for over 25 years. I'd sign up for any event he put on in the future.
150? Like ok. Why do they pay it a year in advance? Or at the beginning of season? This tourney is so much different than any I've ever seen. Like yes I'm just a bum ass am in kansas but I've never seen more than like 80 dollars? And it's almost always more like 45-65. I've always just paid for the tourney like a week or two out, not the whole season. Is the 150 and paying a season in advance common? IS this tourney really THAT great?
I’m in Northern California and most tournaments around here sell-out within a few days to a couple weeks after going live on discgolfscene. It’s all about demand.
It's an A tier tournament. Usually lots of big names. The fee is to help pay for the pros.
Always steal tournament fees. There's no point not to do it. Just get a buddy or two to send enough mini discs and towels for a players pack. And be really sorry about it.
big ol hog's head he got
Well, that just opened the door for a lot of con artists to become td’s and scam players out of money by never delivering the product. If there are no consequences then it will be done again and again.
If that happened, the Con Artist/TD could be prosecuted for things like fraud and misuse of funds. And the players could sue, though hiring a lawyer to try and recoup $150 would be inefficient. The PDGA probably needs to add a few more rules and restrictions on the money side of things, at least for A tier tournaments.
So you're saying 180 people signed up for that tournament? Get outta here lmao.
Discgolfscene shows 134 right now, which is still over $20k. Lots of money, regardless.
@@troykirtley6854 There were also options at registration for Ace Pool and Shirt sales.
This dude just straight up stole from everyone and we're supposed to feel bad for him?! Nah what he did was scummy, he knew he was doing it the whole time it, wasn't some sudden mistake. He should be charged with stealing 27k just like he did, then once he pays it back then we can talk about forgiveness. He needs some form of punishment besides just not being able to run events
It shows you who PDGA is.
I seriously doubt you’d be singing this tune if someone had stolen 27,000$ from you. If I’m wrong, I’m homeless and could use 27$ from all disc golf enthusiasts for good clothes and shelter. I’m not a thief, I don’t use drugs or alcohol and I’m a spiritual renunciate.I must say it sounds like that man’s medical condition could be medical marijuana. And, it sounds like you are condoning his act of thievery?
Might want to read up on mismanagement vs conscious theft. If your bank investment scheme goes belly up.. do you have the bankers arrested for theft.. or investigated for mismanagement... it seems a LOT of people here are confusing the intention of outright steeling with business as usual as per the previous 10 years but this year things went wrong... (And the medical issues didn't help matters but be wary, this does not mean the money was spent on them... but how much money do YOU make in the weeks you are sick.
@TheButlerNZ justifying theft of someone's money, whether it be $1 or $1000 based on intent is a bad take. So, hey, give me $150 and you can come swim in my pool. Oh wait, the pool doesn't have any water in it. Oh well, thanks for the dough.
@@JAFO2024 More info needed... If he used the money for his own purpose, it's theft.
If he used it for other events. It's mismanagement. From initial info it sounded a lot more like mismanagement... but some are now saying he used it for his own companies etc (I am not stating facts, just rehashing others hearsay). A lot of people assumed he used it for his health issues but in his initial statement he stated that he didn't (but of course health issues didn't help bring in the replacement funds).
Basically what I'm saying is... If your not a lawyer involved in the case, anything we say is just rumour and should mind our own business, not just blurt out that someone is guilty without the actual facts.
Didn't at all sound like he was condoning the acts. He's simply laying out what the law says.