For the next episode, play up to the point where Bart infiltrates castle Fatima and gets into the room where Margie is being held captive. There is a save point in that room. Save there and stop!
And make sure you make a separate save BEFORE that room too because as a kid I was underleveled for what comes after and had to restart the whole game hahaha. There's no opportunity to grind once you step out of that room! (or maybe I was a kid and just wasn't playing the game effectively and maybe could have handled it, who knows)
@@gordonprice5924 Like, I'm sorry that you had to experience that, but I'm also glad that I wasn't the only one hahaha. The second time around I spent a whole play session just grinding up to level 30 in the Aveh Desert, I'm pretty sure I was overleveled even up to Kislev by then lmao
Hey guys, once again, awesome episode ! Now, about Casen's assumption that "Gazel" is referring to the wild animal, and all the symbolism that it could infer. I've looked into my copy of Perfect Works and the japanese word for Gazel ガゼル actually translates to "Gazelle" (the animal then) in both your English language and my French language. So it's pretty safe to say "Gazel" was either a an error in transcription or a deliberate choice of adaptation ✧\(>o
I kept worrying he was going to turn against me on my first playthrough yet I trusted him. The sense of paranoia the situation puts on you is unparalleled in my opinion.
All of you guys combined form the most interesting group of people to listen to dissecting story. Especially when Casen's trap card is activated and he starts rapid fire spitting mad facts from different languages, cultures, and religions. Y'all are inspiring haha keep up the amazing work!
I read the line "Repair Weltall..." to be Fei's reluctance with doing so. He knows they're in Dazil to do exactly that but he still has reservations about piloting this gear and is wary of the fact that his fate seems to be intertwined with this gear. The fact that it's not punctuated with a question mark doesn't give me the conversational courtesy vibes. It's more like, "Oh, so you were serious about repairing Weltall."
Grahf's musical theme is an all-time favorite for me. Also the Retrograde Amnesia guys were cool, would definitely watch future collabs with them. And props to Casen on your Japanese language knowledge and etymology. It's great to have that perspective with the analysis.
spot on call from retro AM, that grahf scene was definitely what hooked me as a kid. at that point i needed to know who that guy was and what his plans were for fei (same feeling a little bit later on, with ramsus' flashbacks to the red-haired guy destroying gears with his bare hands)
and yeah, i can relate to casen's impressions 100%. as a child in '98 playing the game, i was pretty trusting of citan and thought that maybe he was just some hermit inventor following political developments and cultural flows from his mountainside abode. i think it was almost like a confucian guru archetype (the chinese aphorisms hung on his walls maybe contributed to that). definitely didn't suspect much of him at that point. and i also had a hard time being sure if the in-game sprites were always the same characters as the ones in the anime cutscenes, though i think sometimes that ambiguity was intentional early on
I thought the same, I was 10, and thought he was a good older brother/fatherly figure for me (I had no father or brother) so I was shocked later when I saw his origins and motives. Still, Citan is the man :) lucky wife, lol
21:47 "the fear is often worse than the danger itself. We should not let such fears hold us back." I can't express how pivotal and deep this quote runs with me and my history. I fell in love with this saying from Citan as a teenager and I wrote it down and made it a part of me both in spreading it verbally and living it myself in all aspects of my life. Its amazing how much of an effect this quote has had on my life. Inspirational quotes/wisdom/principals etc have always rang vividly with me, and this is by far one of the most potent in my life. I'm so glad you made note of it in this video. Extremely well appreciated by me🙏🏿💯
Here I go again with another German lesson! Mixed in with a big chunk of philosophy this time! So Grahf, although spelled a little weirdly, (probably to reflect the Japanese グラーフ (Gurāfu) for native english speakers) looks suspicously like the German "Graf", which means earl or count, so it's a title for nobility. The easy answer here would be that it's just fitting for his striking and elite attitude and appearance. However, the stuff he says make me think it's more than that. He introduces himself as "seeker of power", which as someone who actually studied philosophy and Nietzsche made me think of "Will to Power". During the rest of the conversation between him and Fei, that notion became only more obvious. So according to Nietzsche there is a drive inside the human psyche to long for affirming the cycle of life and death, becoming and fading away, creation and destruction, pleasure and pain. "Power" in this context is the ability the exact all these kind of different (and contradicting) processes in the way one sees fit and this is what all of humanity naturally strives for. Supposedly, (monotheistic) religions like Judaism, Christianity and Islam contain this drive artificially be teaching a certain kind of ethics, that emphasizes harmony and altruism (I'm being really short here. Nietzsche's critique of Christianity in particular is pretty extensive). He claims that in antiquity, before these religions even existed people (especially the ancient greeks) were all to happy to exert their power, even if it meant that other human beings were suffering because of that. Many of his examples go in about how "aristocracy" ( ancient greece: aristokratia (άριστον= the best, excellency and κράτο = power or rule) for example was a title that nobility gave it self to distinguish itself from (weak/lesser) people that couldn't exert their power. Here I think the name Grahf/ Graf comes in. He can be seen as a person that see himself as "better than others", quite like aristocracy and it seems like he wants Fei to see himself in the same way, which is why he refers to the population of Lahan as "vermin" and doesn't care about their deaths. Also, he talks about "destroying (mother) god", which seems pretty reminiscient of Nietzsche's quote "God is dead. And we killed him", marking the overcoming of the need for religion in general. Now, this quote is often read as resulting in nihilism as without God there wouldn't be any meaning of life, however Nietzsche actually thinks this is a good thing, not only does it mean that the "Will to Power" can finally reign more freely, but also that the strong people can create a new meaning in the Übermensch(" über" = across, beyond ; Mensch = human. So a Superhuman, a human beyond humanity) As humanity itself is an imperfect concept, caught between animal and something more "refined". (I'm not gonna go more into this for the sake of "brevity", this post is probably too long anyways...) Another thing is how Grahf talks about destiny. As a concept, in close ties with "Will to Power" not denying ones destiny/fate (is there a difference between these two in English?), but instead embracing it, becomes a strong talking point in Nietzsche's philosophy as well, as there is no way to escape it anyways, it's all part of this endless, and recurring cycle of life and death etc. So yeah, in just this small dialog Grahf seems to be full of Nietzschean thought. his name as a title for nobility, he himself proclaiming himself to be a "seeker of power", the way he talks about the Lahan villagers, his desire to kill (mother) god and the way he frames as destiny as inescapable For anyone who wants to argue, yeah I've have portrayed Nietzsche's philosophy in pretty broad strokes, there is a lot of detail I left out, but we can discuss this stuff, if anyone cares. Btw for the German pronounciation: [ü is pronounced like "ee" in "see", however you have to tightly round your lips while saying it, it's difficult if you don't have similiar sound. So if you don't get it right, whatever. "Mensch" is pronounced "mensh"].
Very good info, it's like Takahashi and Soraya Saga took all these great philosophical thinkers and ideas they had and turned them into a bunch of the different main characters of this story. It seems Grahf may be mostly based around Nietzsche's thoughts. You've definitely inspired me to look into Nietzsche more, interesting stuff...
Xenogears....one part Matrix, LoTR, Escaflowné, with various mythologies, philosophy, and psychology. This game, Imho, STILL remains ahead of the curve, decades later.
Yeah it's the best story ever put into a videogame I think.. the Neon Genesis Evangelion influence is also really strong, if you're into anime I'd recommend checking it out at least once.. it's a pretty dark and depressing anime, but has cool parts and you can see where a lot of ideas in Xenogears came from.
I thought it was so weird that Citan was saying they had to move Weltall to protect the village and Fei didn't just respond with: "Alright why don't we use your weird crab helicopter thing to move it again since that apparently works perfectly fine."
appreciate casen pulling up the source japanese text on key terms ("mother god") just to confirm intent. i think the awkardness of the "my dad?" line is mostly that the script writers are going about in a way that suggests fei has a memory/deep connection to his father (i.e. he used to call him "dad"). but that's not the case - he has no memory of him - so the line just comes off silly
This is so good!! The retrospective from way back was already awesome in itself, but this stuff is groundbreaking! I cant wait for more of Casen's perspective. Especially with the hype-train the rest of them are putting him on lmao this stuff is rich
I always hoped and still hope they do a full remaster and finish the game the way the creators wanted too. They ran out of funding and had to cut it down. This is one of my favorite JRPG’s and is in my top 5 all time RPG’s
The scene where Grahf appears is so memorable. It was such a great scene. I hope you will also speak about the meaning of the names of the gears. As a german player i like it how they use german words like Weltall (Space) or Seibzehn, what is written wrong and should be Siebzehn (seventeen). Great episode!
Thanks you so much for doing this! Xenoblades and your review of Xenogears got me to play Xenogears. There was too much to handle alone and think on yourself so this is perfect. I've been watching your guys videos for long time and never said anything, but now I want to say thank you! I'm grateful that this channel exist.
The Weltall always gave me Space Runaway Ideon vibes, which (correct me if I’m wrong) was a direct inspiration for Evangelion. So it’s not a leap to say Xenogears took similar inspiration. To add to the thought Ideon starts off as a paint by numbers Super Robot show and becomes something very different and dark. To get the full effect though you have to watch the cap stone movie for Ideon (Be Invoked). Another parallel to Evangelion since if you wanna see the dark climax there you gotta watch End Of Evangelion. I suspect for both creative teams Ideon was airing when they were young. Kinda lines up since I think Takahashi would have been 14 when it aired originally.
The line from fei about grahf knowing his father makes more sense if you view his father as biological, and his dad as the person who has raised him. "my father? you mean my dad?(chief lee) you know my father?!(khan)" He doesnt know his real father at all, so the first person he would think of is chief lee, but then he realized he meant his biological father. thats where there is the !? at the end. they were all questions, fei was confused who grahf was speaking of, then shocked that grahf knows his real father.
That's a really good point I hadn't thought of.. he would have only known Chief Lee as a father figure at this point and most likely would have thought of him first.
There are many forced encounters that are triggered by stepping in specific locations, so it gives the game a feeling of having a higher encounter rate than it really has. Also, the game can take up to 10-15 seconds to load a fight, so if you stop after triggering an encounter, you can still rotate the camera, and then the fight will begin a few seconds later. Standing in one place and just rotating the camera does not trigger a battle. Sometimes you will be loading one fight, and then step on a forced encounter, which will trigger 2 fights in a row.
I remember first time playing this game when I reach this point, my speculation that we were the protagonist on a mission to slay the false/evil god and organization that rules the world, using the god slayer gear and obtains humanity freedom
This series is amazing! I really appreciate the work and effort that's gone into it, and when I get out of my current financial difficulties, having lost nearly everything I have due to Covid related issues, I will definitely support you guys. Thankyou for bringing this into our lives. I can't wait for the rest! Lots of love from a dude in Australia, keep up the good work ❤❤
Seeing how the internet reacted to Final Fantasy Origin's dialogue. I think non Xenogears fans would likely fall in love with the "Father? You mean...my dad?" dialogue exchange if it came back in a remake. I support it.
I’m so excited for this. Really enjoying the Xenogears content. I wish I could play this game again. Been one of my all time favorites since childhood.
Hey, guys I'm sooo thankful I found this 'videogame book club'. And something had been bothering my mind for quite a long time when I did my second (or was it third....) playthrough. Of course the first one being me still in Junior High I just played it for the cool mecha and being the "oh-so-philosophical" reasons. But on the second (or third) playthrough something really bugged my mind. About the spelling of Citan's name. Like you guys found out on the previous episode (was it the 2nd or 3rd I forgot), that his name was actually written "Sh*tan" on the wooden board near his house. So when Casen was thought to have mis-pronounced Gazel ministry as "Gazelle", it reminded me, could the name "Sh*tan" was actually a deliberate misspelling of Syaitan. Syaitan is the Arabic for Satan, the one who constantly whispers into human beings into doing bad deeds. Just like Citan did when, at the beginning, trying to push Fei to his limit to do something he didn't wanna do. I know it's a longshot because of how the story played out at the end... but to me it's a mind-boggle worth thinking / mentioning. Anyways thank you for the awesome in-depth analysis, guys. Much love.
Definitely worth noting, it's possible they meant to mislead the player or reference Satan in a way that flipped his role in this story as many things in the story are.
Hey, great work! I'd like to submit subtitles to Latin American Spanish, so more people enjoy this series. The information and references that you use are new to me and it is amazing how you analize every tiny part of the game. But I can't contribute to add by myself the subtitles in the options feature in the video, maybe we can be in touch so later I can work in this. Keep the good work and thank you for making this about my favorite game ever.
4 episodes and 8hrs into it and there's still BIG spoilers warnings, games these days don't even use foreshadowing anymore This is why old school jrpgs hold such a special place for us and its still fukin' good even now.
I don't have a GREAT knowledge of the Japanese language from the one semester course that I took in it, but I still remember the instructor explaining how "soo desu ka" changes based on the inflection: a flat expression can either be something contemplative or a confirmation of something that might be incredulous, and then the classic upward inflection question form. He also pointed out that English does almost the exact same like if you said in response to something "really?" or "really," and also how it still is meant to reinforce that you heard and understood what was said to you. Of course, it's much more extensively used in that language, but even then, I've always been under the impression that even native speakers can joke about how prevalent the expression (or other synonymous forms) is to their language. For example, the character of Chichiri from "Fushigi Yuugi." In Japanese, he ends literally every sentence with "no da." The translators went with "ya know" and both the dub and the original uses it as comic relief in some spaces just because it's literally in every sentence. Again, not sure if that is 100% accurate due to my own brief experience with the language, so please correct me if I'm mistaken; it's been like nearly 20 years since I took that class.
This is getting better and better, I can't wait to see the discussions when the plot starts unfolding more and more with all it's crazy and amazing details. Also it's great to see the perspective of someone that's completely new to it. Casen's point of view and analogies are really great additions to the discussion.
Not sure if it mentions it in Perfect Works, but since Casen mentioned both pirates having eyepatches, this is actually explained in game during this portion of the game. If you go down to the engine room and talk to the engineers, they mention that Sigard and Bart performed emergency repairs on the engine to save the ship at one point, but there was an accident or explosion. Presumably, that's why one of them has an eyepatch on the right eye and the other on the left eye (as the explosion occurred between them). Sorry I don't have the exact quote.
08:00 I can tell you that changing the camera angle does induce an encounter. I've had it happen a few times already. Annoying, but not the worst thing. Honestly I'm more ticked off whenever I have to do a "platforming" section haha.
The nurse will still say Fei is the perfect weight at his default weight. You can change the weight significantly in both directions and it will change what she says, but the bird egg alone is not enough to shift it to overweight.
01:35 "A little complicated" ain´t that a understatement 14:30 that Gear appears at disc2. 21:25 the village that doesn´t exist anymore? 59:30 and you never use ether on Gears until the end game... 01:16:12 Oh Casen you will know him, oh you will 01:25:45 Bart is also known for some "odd" reason as "gung ho" by his other gear pilots of the crew 01:47:40 when you actually realize the true nature of the Emperor you will be very surprised Canen
At 1:42, “bullet wounds would appear to confirm that”. I love how scientific the script is, with scientific reasoning and not just dogmatic faith language.
Im having a great time playing the game right now and also a great time listening to your dissections before sleep. I think it makes me appreciate the experience more, great quality content.
the thing i like about grahf is in every other jrpgs he would be the main antaginist. but if anything he is the thorn in the side of the real villains of the story.
As Casen pointed out about the "repair weltall..." sentence, I always read it as Fei doubting to himself wether it would be a good idea to repair that thing.
I'm loving how in-depth you guys are going into everything. Really enjoying it so far. And about the Emperor's floating painting room. I believe this is possibly an anime reference/inspired by to the series "Nadia: Secret of Blue Water", which is by the same creator as Neon Genesis Evangelion. So Nadia funnily enough was probably more of an inspiration than Evangelion. Also, "Nadia: SoBW" was pretty likely a heavy inspiration for Xenoblade Chronicles 2 as well. I made a comparison video showing the two, but it does have some vague later game Spoilers for Xenogears. ua-cam.com/video/q0DMJ11oUNA/v-deo.html
The church teaching evolution is just perfect in my opinion. They completely reverse the real life dynamic with the scientist promoting myth and the church teaching evolution. I like the idea that the writers demonstrate that how people view a world perspective is colored by the groups that are promoting it. I could draw more evidence from the game, but spoilers so we will see over the course of the podcast series.
This series is low-key made to get you intrested in Lord of the rings...And its working. Wonderful discussion as always! Love how good these are and that it is working for you guys so it's not to much of a burden on your lifes to make em!
In Japanese during conversations it's customary to ask questions when someone makes a statement. "Oh, you mean you're saying this thing?" It means you are listening. It's a part of their communication skills.
Great video as always! About Balthazar coming off as contradictory, i would like to add that he said he would RATHER believe those myths and legends than believing the Ethos. I interpret that not as if he really believes those myths and legends, but as to emphasize his mistrust on the Ethos, so much that he would rather believe some fairytale before believing them. Looking it this way, i think it makes more sense what he said, making him look more like this typical old bitter man who mistrusts any power structure, rather than a contradictory man or plain bad writing. Keep it up, good work!
i always just read that scene as balthazar trying to throw them off the scent when he realized he may have said too much...though i could be wrong, or if it was deliberate the scriptwriter or translator maybe could've been a little clearer in communicating that
aye and not sure what their intention was but it's interesting that they reversed how the church or religion like creationism story is here on Earth and evolution with the Church in Xenogears teaching evolution and the 10,000 year part being the truth. Actually I think that's exactly the point, to hide the truth by presenting/teaching their version, even if evolution does hold truth to it.. it doesn't readily reveal the 10,000 period of time humans have actually been on that planet.
On the Dazil music piece, there's a good chance the temp track for that was Loreena McKennitt's "Marco Polo". "Dazil"'s chanting takes it to a new level though
I was trying to play along last year when you guys were dropping these. I wasn't huge on the combat system in the game, but I was trying to press-on. I didn't escape the ship in time (I didn't know I was supposed to jump on the crane thing and down to weltall) and I died. I was frustrated and totally gave up. I think I'm ready to give it another shot.
I don't know if you ended up playing the game but if you don't want to play the game, I wouldn't blame you.. its tough to make it thru as its not a very fun game to play nowadays.. you could watch the "movie" version of the game people have posted on youtube like here: ua-cam.com/video/urVumsgmqQ4/v-deo.html That's how I'm rewatching the game, then I go to the point they mention and watch the discussion it's a lot easier to get thru and still enjoy the story. Yeah you miss the NPC dialog and stuff from non-cutscene sections but if you want that experience you can just play the game anyways even tho you wouldn't be missing much or anything really that is actually important to the main story.
In Unfinished Tales, it’s directly implied that Gandalf had some kind of vision/foresight about Bilbo finding the One Ring on the dwarves’ quest. It’s why he pushed him to go.
I always thought Bart was afraid of Fei after seeing what Fei did to disintegrate a gear. I think that is why he postponed the "fight". Not because of Aveh, because his gear could never face that power. Kinda sets him up as an ambiguous faction leader just vying to have the power he fears on his side in the beginning. Could have gone somewhere with that. The idea that one of--if not all of -- Fei's allies are secretly scared of Fei because they all in some form saw his his power at some point in the story.
Loving the series so far! I hope you guys play more PSX stuff! I'd love to hear your thoughts on FFVI, but I also don't want you guys to burn yourselves out by playing too many FF games for the podcast... Also, congrats for Casen! Hope your baby grows big and strong, dude!
A huge hint about Citan...you guys said it during the Grahf scene. Pay attention when Citan becomes silent or quiet. Citan, as an intrepid avid researcher, has zero problems speaking about everything he knows about a subject. Unless it involves Fei. The biggest hints are there!
I think the line with Balthasar is meant to be in relation to him not trusting the church So like "i'd rather believe in myths and legends over what they're saying"
Not sure if it was previously mentioned, but the word ETHOS means behavior or conduct in greek, it kind of describes the control the church has over the two nations and the word they control the behaviour of the people, also it kind of make sense that a church that handle machines would have a more scientific inclination in his doctrine, like evolution.
55:38 As non-native English speaker that was exactly what I thought at that moment. (It makes perfect sense in Russian, too): "My father? You mean my papa?"
On the point of "withstanding Brigandier's rod" I'm surprised nobody brought up Gundam. The Gouf has a whip like weapon called a "heat rod". This is later also seen in Gundam Wing with the Epyon and Tallgeese III in Endless Waltz.
58:35 Worm counter everytime fei attack. fuel damage 60. worm has also his own lame attack that but miss alot . yeah chi blast effective here. it was fun the deathblow work on it also.
I think it is very important that the Ethos promote evolution amongst the Lambs. As long as people believe in evolution they will believe that all they see is all there is. They will never look for more outside their own understanding. This keeps them chained and controllable in their minds by simply keeping them occupied with food, water, shelter, family, and conflict. That will fill up their lives. Also, as long as Lambs believe that all they have is all there is they will never long for more. If Lambs realized they were not Shepherds, they would long to become Shepherds, like Dominia. This would create constant unrest and more conflict with the Shepherds making Solaris' control more difficult. Slave are happier when they don't know they are slaves. The Gazel learned from their previous resets how to better control the Lambs this way rather than more direct means.
For the next episode, play up to the point where Bart infiltrates castle Fatima and gets into the room where Margie is being held captive. There is a save point in that room. Save there and stop!
And make sure you make a separate save BEFORE that room too because as a kid I was underleveled for what comes after and had to restart the whole game hahaha. There's no opportunity to grind once you step out of that room!
(or maybe I was a kid and just wasn't playing the game effectively and maybe could have handled it, who knows)
@@EbbFlowe Oof, I remember the exact same thing on my playthrough! That room is burned into my brain hahah
@@gordonprice5924 Like, I'm sorry that you had to experience that, but I'm also glad that I wasn't the only one hahaha. The second time around I spent a whole play session just grinding up to level 30 in the Aveh Desert, I'm pretty sure I was overleveled even up to Kislev by then lmao
Hey guys, once again, awesome episode !
Now, about Casen's assumption that "Gazel" is referring to the wild animal, and all the symbolism that it could infer.
I've looked into my copy of Perfect Works and the japanese word for Gazel ガゼル actually translates to "Gazelle" (the animal then) in both your English language and my French language.
So it's pretty safe to say "Gazel" was either a an error in transcription or a deliberate choice of adaptation ✧\(>o
Thank you for making the play sections easily manageable.
Thanks for having us on, it was good to purvey the myths and legends of yore once again.
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Just subscribed to your podcast on UA-cam and Spotify!! You guys do awesome work!!! Keee it up!!!
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you guys are awesome 😎
I love the Japanese language context Casen brings to these discussions. So interesting!
Yes, particularly about azuichi, which I was not aware of before watching these episodes.
@@rodrigohartmann9951 *Aizuchi (相槌)
When I played Xenogears, I trusted Citan, but I knew there was a mystery to him and he was a very intriguing character to me.
I kept worrying he was going to turn against me on my first playthrough yet I trusted him. The sense of paranoia the situation puts on you is unparalleled in my opinion.
All of you guys combined form the most interesting group of people to listen to dissecting story. Especially when Casen's trap card is activated and he starts rapid fire spitting mad facts from different languages, cultures, and religions. Y'all are inspiring haha keep up the amazing work!
I read the line "Repair Weltall..." to be Fei's reluctance with doing so. He knows they're in Dazil to do exactly that but he still has reservations about piloting this gear and is wary of the fact that his fate seems to be intertwined with this gear. The fact that it's not punctuated with a question mark doesn't give me the conversational courtesy vibes. It's more like, "Oh, so you were serious about repairing Weltall."
The vibe i always got from Citan was more of a nurture and protect rather than a manipulate and deceive.
Well he is a literal guardian angel
Grahf's musical theme is an all-time favorite for me.
Also the Retrograde Amnesia guys were cool, would definitely watch future collabs with them. And props to Casen on your Japanese language knowledge and etymology. It's great to have that perspective with the analysis.
spot on call from retro AM, that grahf scene was definitely what hooked me as a kid. at that point i needed to know who that guy was and what his plans were for fei (same feeling a little bit later on, with ramsus' flashbacks to the red-haired guy destroying gears with his bare hands)
My boy casen finally here
and yeah, i can relate to casen's impressions 100%. as a child in '98 playing the game, i was pretty trusting of citan and thought that maybe he was just some hermit inventor following political developments and cultural flows from his mountainside abode. i think it was almost like a confucian guru archetype (the chinese aphorisms hung on his walls maybe contributed to that). definitely didn't suspect much of him at that point. and i also had a hard time being sure if the in-game sprites were always the same characters as the ones in the anime cutscenes, though i think sometimes that ambiguity was intentional early on
I thought the same, I was 10, and thought he was a good older brother/fatherly figure for me (I had no father or brother) so I was shocked later when I saw his origins and motives. Still, Citan is the man :) lucky wife, lol
21:47 "the fear is often worse than the danger itself. We should not let such fears hold us back."
I can't express how pivotal and deep this quote runs with me and my history. I fell in love with this saying from Citan as a teenager and I wrote it down and made it a part of me both in spreading it verbally and living it myself in all aspects of my life. Its amazing how much of an effect this quote has had on my life. Inspirational quotes/wisdom/principals etc have always rang vividly with me, and this is by far one of the most potent in my life. I'm so glad you made note of it in this video. Extremely well appreciated by me🙏🏿💯
Grahf thumbnail goated
59:44 "You also get an Eyeball as a reward for that and keep a lookout..."
Here I go again with another German lesson! Mixed in with a big chunk of philosophy this time!
So Grahf, although spelled a little weirdly, (probably to reflect the Japanese グラーフ (Gurāfu) for native english speakers) looks suspicously like the German "Graf", which means earl or count, so it's a title for nobility. The easy answer here would be that it's just fitting for his striking and elite attitude and appearance. However, the stuff he says make me think it's more than that.
He introduces himself as "seeker of power", which as someone who actually studied philosophy and Nietzsche made me think of "Will to Power". During the rest of the conversation between him and Fei, that notion became only more obvious. So according to Nietzsche there is a drive inside the human psyche to long for affirming the cycle of life and death, becoming and fading away, creation and destruction, pleasure and pain. "Power" in this context is the ability the exact all these kind of different (and contradicting) processes in the way one sees fit and this is what all of humanity naturally strives for.
Supposedly, (monotheistic) religions like Judaism, Christianity and Islam contain this drive artificially be teaching a certain kind of ethics, that emphasizes harmony and altruism (I'm being really short here. Nietzsche's critique of Christianity in particular is pretty extensive). He claims that in antiquity, before these religions even existed people (especially the ancient greeks) were all to happy to exert their power, even if it meant that other human beings were suffering because of that. Many of his examples go in about how "aristocracy" ( ancient greece: aristokratia (άριστον= the best, excellency and κράτο = power or rule) for example was a title that nobility gave it self to distinguish itself from (weak/lesser) people that couldn't exert their power.
Here I think the name Grahf/ Graf comes in. He can be seen as a person that see himself as "better than others", quite like aristocracy and it seems like he wants Fei to see himself in the same way, which is why he refers to the population of Lahan as "vermin" and doesn't care about their deaths.
Also, he talks about "destroying (mother) god", which seems pretty reminiscient of Nietzsche's quote "God is dead. And we killed him", marking the overcoming of the need for religion in general. Now, this quote is often read as resulting in nihilism as without God there wouldn't be any meaning of life, however Nietzsche actually thinks this is a good thing, not only does it mean that the "Will to Power" can finally reign more freely, but also that the strong people can create a new meaning in the Übermensch(" über" = across, beyond ; Mensch = human. So a Superhuman, a human beyond humanity) As humanity itself is an imperfect concept, caught between animal and something more "refined". (I'm not gonna go more into this for the sake of "brevity", this post is probably too long anyways...)
Another thing is how Grahf talks about destiny. As a concept, in close ties with "Will to Power" not denying ones destiny/fate (is there a difference between these two in English?), but instead embracing it, becomes a strong talking point in Nietzsche's philosophy as well, as there is no way to escape it anyways, it's all part of this endless, and recurring cycle of life and death etc.
So yeah, in just this small dialog Grahf seems to be full of Nietzschean thought. his name as a title for nobility, he himself proclaiming himself to be a "seeker of power", the way he talks about the Lahan villagers, his desire to kill (mother) god and the way he frames as destiny as inescapable
For anyone who wants to argue, yeah I've have portrayed Nietzsche's philosophy in pretty broad strokes, there is a lot of detail I left out, but we can discuss this stuff, if anyone cares.
Btw for the German pronounciation:
[ü is pronounced like "ee" in "see", however you have to tightly round your lips while saying it, it's difficult if you don't have similiar sound. So if you don't get it right, whatever. "Mensch" is pronounced "mensh"].
Very good info, it's like Takahashi and Soraya Saga took all these great philosophical thinkers and ideas they had and turned them into a bunch of the different main characters of this story. It seems Grahf may be mostly based around Nietzsche's thoughts. You've definitely inspired me to look into Nietzsche more, interesting stuff...
Xenogears....one part Matrix, LoTR, Escaflowné, with various mythologies, philosophy, and psychology.
This game, Imho, STILL remains ahead of the curve, decades later.
Yeah it's the best story ever put into a videogame I think.. the Neon Genesis Evangelion influence is also really strong, if you're into anime I'd recommend checking it out at least once.. it's a pretty dark and depressing anime, but has cool parts and you can see where a lot of ideas in Xenogears came from.
If any game deserves this deep an analysis its this one. Xenogears is master class and they bit off as much as possible with the medium of games.
I’d argue Xenosaga and Xenoblade X and 2 are worth analyzing if @Miiks is anything to go by!
dood i love the retrograde amnesia guys, im half way through their podcast series on xenogears now because of their appearances
Yes! Been listening to retrograde amnesia's podcast in the meantime waiting for this. Great content
I thought it was so weird that Citan was saying they had to move Weltall to protect the village and Fei didn't just respond with: "Alright why don't we use your weird crab helicopter thing to move it again since that apparently works perfectly fine."
appreciate casen pulling up the source japanese text on key terms ("mother god") just to confirm intent. i think the awkardness of the "my dad?" line is mostly that the script writers are going about in a way that suggests fei has a memory/deep connection to his father (i.e. he used to call him "dad"). but that's not the case - he has no memory of him - so the line just comes off silly
Man I hope you guys keep collaborating with Retrograde guys. Great combination. Everyone adds good points.
This is so good!! The retrospective from way back was already awesome in itself, but this stuff is groundbreaking! I cant wait for more of Casen's perspective. Especially with the hype-train the rest of them are putting him on lmao this stuff is rich
I always hoped and still hope they do a full remaster and finish the game the way the creators wanted too. They ran out of funding and had to cut it down. This is one of my favorite JRPG’s and is in my top 5 all time RPG’s
Congrats Casen. Super exciting.
haha thank god you guys eventually remembered to talk about the sick combos, that's a pretty important scene!!
The scene where Grahf appears is so memorable. It was such a great scene.
I hope you will also speak about the meaning of the names of the gears. As a german player i like it how they use german words like Weltall (Space) or Seibzehn, what is written wrong and should be Siebzehn (seventeen). Great episode!
Thanks you so much for doing this! Xenoblades and your review of Xenogears got me to play Xenogears. There was too much to handle alone and think on yourself so this is perfect. I've been watching your guys videos for long time and never said anything, but now I want to say thank you! I'm grateful that this channel exist.
Mike, my favorite natural bodybuilder.
The Weltall always gave me Space Runaway Ideon vibes, which (correct me if I’m wrong) was a direct inspiration for Evangelion. So it’s not a leap to say Xenogears took similar inspiration. To add to the thought Ideon starts off as a paint by numbers Super Robot show and becomes something very different and dark. To get the full effect though you have to watch the cap stone movie for Ideon (Be Invoked). Another parallel to Evangelion since if you wanna see the dark climax there you gotta watch End Of Evangelion. I suspect for both creative teams Ideon was airing when they were young. Kinda lines up since I think Takahashi would have been 14 when it aired originally.
The line from fei about grahf knowing his father makes more sense if you view his father as biological, and his dad as the person who has raised him.
"my father?
you mean my dad?(chief lee)
you know my father?!(khan)"
He doesnt know his real father at all, so the first person he would think of is chief lee, but then he realized he meant his biological father. thats where there is the !? at the end. they were all questions, fei was confused who grahf was speaking of, then shocked that grahf knows his real father.
That's a really good point I hadn't thought of.. he would have only known Chief Lee as a father figure at this point and most likely would have thought of him first.
Loving this series! The Retrograde Amnesia guys have been a great addition as well they have added a lot!
There are many forced encounters that are triggered by stepping in specific locations, so it gives the game a feeling of having a higher encounter rate than it really has. Also, the game can take up to 10-15 seconds to load a fight, so if you stop after triggering an encounter, you can still rotate the camera, and then the fight will begin a few seconds later. Standing in one place and just rotating the camera does not trigger a battle. Sometimes you will be loading one fight, and then step on a forced encounter, which will trigger 2 fights in a row.
I remember first time playing this game when I reach this point, my speculation that we were the protagonist on a mission to slay the false/evil god and organization that rules the world, using the god slayer gear and obtains humanity freedom
This series is amazing! I really appreciate the work and effort that's gone into it, and when I get out of my current financial difficulties, having lost nearly everything I have due to Covid related issues, I will definitely support you guys. Thankyou for bringing this into our lives. I can't wait for the rest! Lots of love from a dude in Australia, keep up the good work ❤❤
Thank you guys for keeping the XG legacy alive ❤❤❤
i like the connection you made about the two town drunks
It’s getting harder and harder to wait for the next episode!!! 😫 this is so good!
Seeing how the internet reacted to Final Fantasy Origin's dialogue. I think non Xenogears fans would likely fall in love with the "Father? You mean...my dad?" dialogue exchange if it came back in a remake. I support it.
The fuel drain is a counter attack. That is why it used it so much.
This whole talk made my day :) Including with Casen and the Guests 😃
I’m so excited for this. Really enjoying the Xenogears content. I wish I could play this game again. Been one of my all time favorites since childhood.
Hey, guys I'm sooo thankful I found this 'videogame book club'. And something had been bothering my mind for quite a long time when I did my second (or was it third....) playthrough. Of course the first one being me still in Junior High I just played it for the cool mecha and being the "oh-so-philosophical" reasons. But on the second (or third) playthrough something really bugged my mind. About the spelling of Citan's name. Like you guys found out on the previous episode (was it the 2nd or 3rd I forgot), that his name was actually written "Sh*tan" on the wooden board near his house. So when Casen was thought to have mis-pronounced Gazel ministry as "Gazelle", it reminded me, could the name "Sh*tan" was actually a deliberate misspelling of Syaitan. Syaitan is the Arabic for Satan, the one who constantly whispers into human beings into doing bad deeds. Just like Citan did when, at the beginning, trying to push Fei to his limit to do something he didn't wanna do.
I know it's a longshot because of how the story played out at the end... but to me it's a mind-boggle worth thinking / mentioning.
Anyways thank you for the awesome in-depth analysis, guys. Much love.
Definitely worth noting, it's possible they meant to mislead the player or reference Satan in a way that flipped his role in this story as many things in the story are.
Hey, great work!
I'd like to submit subtitles to Latin American Spanish, so more people enjoy this series.
The information and references that you use are new to me and it is amazing how you analize every tiny part of the game.
But I can't contribute to add by myself the subtitles in the options feature in the video, maybe we can be in touch so later I can work in this.
Keep the good work and thank you for making this about my favorite game ever.
this is so wholesome
I really hope you do more of these book club style videos. It really makes it enjoyable to play the games at the same pace as the videos are released.
4 episodes and 8hrs into it and there's still BIG spoilers warnings, games these days don't even use foreshadowing anymore This is why old school jrpgs hold such a special place for us and its still fukin' good even now.
I think the "blue face Fei" cutscene is indicating that we're getting a glimpse of Fei's thoughts, that he might be remembering something.
It's that time again! Thanks to you guys, I've been binge listening to retrograde amnesia while doing some (very late) spring cleaning.
Thanks!
Love this content and format, so good
I don't have a GREAT knowledge of the Japanese language from the one semester course that I took in it, but I still remember the instructor explaining how "soo desu ka" changes based on the inflection: a flat expression can either be something contemplative or a confirmation of something that might be incredulous, and then the classic upward inflection question form. He also pointed out that English does almost the exact same like if you said in response to something "really?" or "really," and also how it still is meant to reinforce that you heard and understood what was said to you.
Of course, it's much more extensively used in that language, but even then, I've always been under the impression that even native speakers can joke about how prevalent the expression (or other synonymous forms) is to their language. For example, the character of Chichiri from "Fushigi Yuugi." In Japanese, he ends literally every sentence with "no da." The translators went with "ya know" and both the dub and the original uses it as comic relief in some spaces just because it's literally in every sentence.
Again, not sure if that is 100% accurate due to my own brief experience with the language, so please correct me if I'm mistaken; it's been like nearly 20 years since I took that class.
These episodes are my favourite part of the week. I get so excited when I check my phone and see that notification!
This is getting better and better, I can't wait to see the discussions when the plot starts unfolding more and more with all it's crazy and amazing details. Also it's great to see the perspective of someone that's completely new to it. Casen's point of view and analogies are really great additions to the discussion.
If you do not eat the egg, the nurse will still say you are the perfect weight.
I just got to the Yggdrasil nurse and can confirm that Fei is still the perfect weight without eating the egg.
I also totally got killed by the sand when Bart's crew attacked, lol
Not sure if it mentions it in Perfect Works, but since Casen mentioned both pirates having eyepatches, this is actually explained in game during this portion of the game. If you go down to the engine room and talk to the engineers, they mention that Sigard and Bart performed emergency repairs on the engine to save the ship at one point, but there was an accident or explosion. Presumably, that's why one of them has an eyepatch on the right eye and the other on the left eye (as the explosion occurred between them). Sorry I don't have the exact quote.
08:00 I can tell you that changing the camera angle does induce an encounter. I've had it happen a few times already. Annoying, but not the worst thing. Honestly I'm more ticked off whenever I have to do a "platforming" section haha.
P.s. I subbed to the retrograde guys too. They’re great.
I did too
same
The nurse will still say Fei is the perfect weight at his default weight. You can change the weight significantly in both directions and it will change what she says, but the bird egg alone is not enough to shift it to overweight.
01:35 "A little complicated" ain´t that a understatement
14:30 that Gear appears at disc2.
21:25 the village that doesn´t exist anymore?
59:30 and you never use ether on Gears until the end game...
01:16:12 Oh Casen you will know him, oh you will
01:25:45 Bart is also known for some "odd" reason as "gung ho" by his other gear pilots of the crew
01:47:40 when you actually realize the true nature of the Emperor you will be very surprised Canen
At 1:42, “bullet wounds would appear to confirm that”. I love how scientific the script is, with scientific reasoning and not just dogmatic faith language.
Im having a great time playing the game right now and also a great time listening to your dissections before sleep. I think it makes me appreciate the experience more, great quality content.
the thing i like about grahf is in every other jrpgs he would be the main antaginist. but if anything he is the thorn in the side of the real villains of the story.
Hey, Casen is back. Welcome Back!
As Casen pointed out about the "repair weltall..." sentence, I always read it as Fei doubting to himself wether it would be a good idea to repair that thing.
I'm loving how in-depth you guys are going into everything. Really enjoying it so far.
And about the Emperor's floating painting room. I believe this is possibly an anime reference/inspired by to the series "Nadia: Secret of Blue Water", which is by the same creator as Neon Genesis Evangelion. So Nadia funnily enough was probably more of an inspiration than Evangelion. Also, "Nadia: SoBW" was pretty likely a heavy inspiration for Xenoblade Chronicles 2 as well.
I made a comparison video showing the two, but it does have some vague later game Spoilers for Xenogears.
ua-cam.com/video/q0DMJ11oUNA/v-deo.html
Thank you all for the amazing podcast about one of my the most favorite games ever.
The church teaching evolution is just perfect in my opinion. They completely reverse the real life dynamic with the scientist promoting myth and the church teaching evolution. I like the idea that the writers demonstrate that how people view a world perspective is colored by the groups that are promoting it. I could draw more evidence from the game, but spoilers so we will see over the course of the podcast series.
I agree, I think that's exactly what they were going for with that part.
This series is low-key made to get you intrested in Lord of the rings...And its working. Wonderful discussion as always! Love how good these are and that it is working for you guys so it's not to much of a burden on your lifes to make em!
I am absolutely loving witnessing Casen's introduction to Xenogears. First-time experiences are precious.
It’s so much fun hearing Casen’s thoughts!
pro tip, if you don't want to hit random encounters, just open the disc lid. very helpful for certain parts of the game.
As someone who just played through this for the first time I was expecting Citan to betray or be working for the bad guys the whole time
Whoo boy I’m excited! Been holding off on playing more just for this.
In Japanese during conversations it's customary to ask questions when someone makes a statement. "Oh, you mean you're saying this thing?" It means you are listening. It's a part of their communication skills.
Yeah they bring that up quite a bit in earlier episodes, aizuchi it's called.
Great video as always! About Balthazar coming off as contradictory, i would like to add that he said he would RATHER believe those myths and legends than believing the Ethos. I interpret that not as if he really believes those myths and legends, but as to emphasize his mistrust on the Ethos, so much that he would rather believe some fairytale before believing them. Looking it this way, i think it makes more sense what he said, making him look more like this typical old bitter man who mistrusts any power structure, rather than a contradictory man or plain bad writing. Keep it up, good work!
i always just read that scene as balthazar trying to throw them off the scent when he realized he may have said too much...though i could be wrong, or if it was deliberate the scriptwriter or translator maybe could've been a little clearer in communicating that
aye and not sure what their intention was but it's interesting that they reversed how the church or religion like creationism story is here on Earth and evolution with the Church in Xenogears teaching evolution and the 10,000 year part being the truth. Actually I think that's exactly the point, to hide the truth by presenting/teaching their version, even if evolution does hold truth to it.. it doesn't readily reveal the 10,000 period of time humans have actually been on that planet.
Oh man, i forgot it was weekly! Nice "surprise" for me haha
YES! I've been waiting for this like it was Christmas lol.
On the Dazil music piece, there's a good chance the temp track for that was Loreena McKennitt's "Marco Polo". "Dazil"'s chanting takes it to a new level though
Loved it! ❤️
I was trying to play along last year when you guys were dropping these. I wasn't huge on the combat system in the game, but I was trying to press-on. I didn't escape the ship in time (I didn't know I was supposed to jump on the crane thing and down to weltall) and I died. I was frustrated and totally gave up. I think I'm ready to give it another shot.
I don't know if you ended up playing the game but if you don't want to play the game, I wouldn't blame you.. its tough to make it thru as its not a very fun game to play nowadays.. you could watch the "movie" version of the game people have posted on youtube like here: ua-cam.com/video/urVumsgmqQ4/v-deo.html
That's how I'm rewatching the game, then I go to the point they mention and watch the discussion it's a lot easier to get thru and still enjoy the story. Yeah you miss the NPC dialog and stuff from non-cutscene sections but if you want that experience you can just play the game anyways even tho you wouldn't be missing much or anything really that is actually important to the main story.
In Unfinished Tales, it’s directly implied that Gandalf had some kind of vision/foresight about Bilbo finding the One Ring on the dwarves’ quest. It’s why he pushed him to go.
my favorite part of the week!
My suggestion for redoing "My father? You mean my dad?!" would be "(My father...) You know my dad?!"
Grahf doesn't have a disdain for just surface dwellers like a solarian would, he views almost all humans the same way.
I always thought Bart was afraid of Fei after seeing what Fei did to disintegrate a gear. I think that is why he postponed the "fight". Not because of Aveh, because his gear could never face that power. Kinda sets him up as an ambiguous faction leader just vying to have the power he fears on his side in the beginning.
Could have gone somewhere with that. The idea that one of--if not all of -- Fei's allies are secretly scared of Fei because they all in some form saw his his power at some point in the story.
Loving the series so far! I hope you guys play more PSX stuff! I'd love to hear your thoughts on FFVI, but I also don't want you guys to burn yourselves out by playing too many FF games for the podcast...
Also, congrats for Casen! Hope your baby grows big and strong, dude!
A huge hint about Citan...you guys said it during the Grahf scene. Pay attention when Citan becomes silent or quiet. Citan, as an intrepid avid researcher, has zero problems speaking about everything he knows about a subject. Unless it involves Fei. The biggest hints are there!
when playing through the desert section, I have to admit that Fei seems pretty...dense to say the least
Cut him a break, he lost his memory, he's only 18, and he just disintegrated many of his best friends in his "hometown"
I think the line with Balthasar is meant to be in relation to him not trusting the church
So like "i'd rather believe in myths and legends over what they're saying"
Mike, you need to get Casen to your level of swole!
Graf's gear has that God Gundam pose.
The "Gazel" part was pretty interesting haha
Because he is Right. While not even having an idea of how right he is 😂
Not sure if it was previously mentioned, but the word ETHOS means behavior or conduct in greek, it kind of describes the control the church has over the two nations and the word they control the behaviour of the people, also it kind of make sense that a church that handle machines would have a more scientific inclination in his doctrine, like evolution.
Yeah super cool name change on Richard Honeywood's part. Thanks for the info on it :)
55:38 As non-native English speaker that was exactly what I thought at that moment. (It makes perfect sense in Russian, too): "My father? You mean my papa?"
On the point of "withstanding Brigandier's rod" I'm surprised nobody brought up Gundam. The Gouf has a whip like weapon called a "heat rod". This is later also seen in Gundam Wing with the Epyon and Tallgeese III in Endless Waltz.
Part 4 hype let's go!!!
58:35 Worm counter everytime fei attack. fuel damage 60. worm has also his own lame attack that but miss alot . yeah chi blast effective here. it was fun the deathblow work on it also.
I think it is very important that the Ethos promote evolution amongst the Lambs. As long as people believe in evolution they will believe that all they see is all there is. They will never look for more outside their own understanding. This keeps them chained and controllable in their minds by simply keeping them occupied with food, water, shelter, family, and conflict. That will fill up their lives.
Also, as long as Lambs believe that all they have is all there is they will never long for more. If Lambs realized they were not Shepherds, they would long to become Shepherds, like Dominia. This would create constant unrest and more conflict with the Shepherds making Solaris' control more difficult. Slave are happier when they don't know they are slaves. The Gazel learned from their previous resets how to better control the Lambs this way rather than more direct means.