I think I speak for everyone when I say a massive thank you to the both of you. The level of research and analysis you put into studying Xenogears, flawed masterpiece as it is, is second to none. Probably the most comprehensive coverage of not only the game itself, but the layers upon layers of philosophy built into the script. You could easily write a whole thesis on this game just by watching this video series alone. Thanks for all of the fun and insight, and I'm sure we're all really looking forward to the next one. #Chuchudidnothingwrong
Future UA-cam classic. May the algorithm bring many new and old fans here again! I am so happy I decided to pull that PS1 jewel case out of mothballs to finally go through this game with you guys. This channel “resonates” with me and almost everything I love about stories in games and I hope to continue to support it well into the future. Great job, guys!
I said in the discord but I think it's important to note, on the final cutscene with Krelian. "Right in the final cutscene there is a very obvious turn on the metaphor that everybody tends to miss though it is pretty obvious (perhaps distracted by the terrible voice acting and off lipsync) but Krelian grows TWO wings - In a world of one winged angels. Perhaps years of angel looking creatures in Jrpgs distracted us from the relevancy of this. I think this is important because Xenogears is all about putting shattered fragments together. Uniting the warring nations, the truth of history, Fei's psyche, the Deus system. Krellian is unable to be a fragment, he is obsessed with wholeness, becoming one with an ultimate truth. In a way he escapes the conditions he was born into, and life itself. He had yearned to be one of the angels with one wing, and in that he admires Fei and Elly, who complete each other. Ascending to "Heaven"/The higher dimension is the prison his ambition made to himself. He can't help but to fly on his own, alone.
In simpler terms, he's the ultimate cuck who was jealous of Fei/Lacan for getting to be with Elly lollll. Now I truly see the inspiration of N from XC3. In all seriousness Krelian is an interesting villain, and I can see aspects of him (alongside Grahf) in both Jin from XC2 and N from XC3.
@@BinaryDood Xenoblade 1 I felt was the most lackluster of the trilogy. 2 and especially 3 share a lot of ideas from Xenogears and repurposed them to be more approachable. It's definitely not lacking in any soul, especially Xenoblade 3 which is imo the most emotional and heartfelt game of the franchise. It also has very many parallels with Xenogears especially with the 2 main leads, whose love story is very reminiscent of Fei and Elly.
nah, i saw the wings as more artistic ... the moment was Krellian reflecting on the moment he lost his humanity (arms spread making his proclamation after they killed Lecan) and all the crimes he committed and at that moment (in the void) the return of his humanity and his final emotion before departing the physical world is still his envy of Lecan and that he has Elly's love .... a love Krellian has but would never be reciprocated
I have been playing Xenogears since 1998 when I was 8 years old. Didn’t start understanding a general gist of it until my teen years. And have been listening and watching videos regarding its story for years into my adult life. Shows how incredible this story is when I am still learning new things about it and getting new perspectives. I have learned a lot from this podcast and thank you both so much for this series! Can not wait for the final episode with the wonderful Retrograde Amnesia fellows!
Lacan, Krelian, and Fei are the Niechian idea of the destruction of belief systems. Krelian loses his faith and turns to Nihilism, Lacan loses his faith and creates a new structure, "power", but ultimately fails since he can't face the tragedy that befell him. However, Fei puts his "faith" in humanity, but only after confronting and accepting the responsibility for the tragedy that befell him.
The conversation with Krelian between the two fights absolutely demolished me. I could SEEEEEEEE with my own two eyes basically every element in the story being reflected in that dialogue. I was as immersed in something as I have ever been in my entire life, I'm not the type of person to say these type of things but simply put, it was a deeply spiritual moment for me. The visuals, the song, everything. Holy... I'm completely blown away by this game and I could only appreciate it this much because of this podcast. I know you guys became really tired from doing this but from the bottom of my heart, thank you for doing it and from putting your all into the project. I've known and love this channel for many years, after consuming this podcast and getting the experience I have because of it, I feel like it's no longer an option for me, I HAVE to support you. Signed up for Patreon, thank you so much for doing this.
32:05 I think he is referring to the operation on the child rather than a military operation. Probably a mistranslation, but a better way to put it would be "We would have been successful if we had better equipment."
This one is correct. From a medical profession point of view (Which I'm not but I did graduate from a medical degree) Most Doctors, Nurses and Health Staff hype themselves up on a daily basis by approaching their work as a battle against Death.
Xenogears may end up going down as my favorite game of all time. Even with all its incomplete-ness and over the top ambition, this game is a spectacle to behold. And I most probably would not have gained this much appreciation for this unbelievably complex game if it wasn't for this analysis series. Thank you Mike and Casen!
Umineko has an interesting spin on understanding other people with the central theme and quote of the whole story being: "Without love the truth cannot be seen."
An amazing story. Definitely missed a lot of things on my initial playthrough but the situation with Fei’s psychology and the dissociative identity disorder was both incredibly interesting and thought provoking. Definitely something you don’t see often. Great job and I will definitely be watching this whole series at some point. Nier Automata when?
Hey guys, I wanted to give a correction on the message on the music box. You don't need Emerelda with you. You don't even need to wait for the end of the game. When you enter that building at the beginning of the game and interact with the side with the message is on, you can read it then too.
I have to thank you guys so much. I started playing Xenogears June 3rd and wanted to do a deeper dive. I’ve been reading Perfect Works and watching your episodes. Not only are the episodes fun, engaging, and informative, they’ve been great time sinks at my new job I started. I’m a security guard so lots of downtime and waiting around. Thanks for all the content that lasted me the entire month of June. I plan on following along with FFXVI, Vagrant Story, and FF Tactics. Thanks for all the hard work and research, it’s my second run but you guys helped explain so many details I missed or context I didn’t think much about. Can’t wait to watch more episodes. This has been a great way to revisit these classic PlayStation games and treating them like the rich deep and complicated novels they actually are.
"Does the feather mean that Krelian could return or has returned?" I don't know, Casen. I guess you'll have to find out in... episode VI. **Takahashi puts on sunglasses**
I think Emeralda could change her shape without needing to create more nanomachines. If you imagine they are just spreading out thinner, or maybe there's a hollow cavity inside the main body that gets bigger. She probably has to do something like that for her attacks where her hair grows into a weapon briefly. It would be dumb to have to create and then destroy a bunch of nanomachines just for one attack.
Re: "and this is Bart's only spoken line in the game" He (and others) have spoken dialogue that plays when you win or lose at the card game on the Thames. When Bart loses he screams "...JERK!"
You guys have set up a gold standard for what a videogame podcast should be. This was a great series coverage. Thank you. Also, we may not know you IRL but we all feel ya like friends due to the positive vibes you put in the work. Wish you many successes in the future to both. Ps: Not mine to say what you should do, but guys could really get more traction on the videos by replying to comments here and there, it helps to build the interaction around the videos
I've really appreciated this podcast and especially this series covering Xenogears. Gave me an excuse to play through it to completion for the first time! It's been a really great journey to play along with the podcast and gain a new understanding for one of my favorite games. Thanks a lot for this series and looking forward to see what other games you guys cover!
Pat yourselves on the back, guys! This has been the best analysis I've seen of Xenogears to date. Having Casen give his two cents from a newcomer's perspective coupled with his pre-existing knowledge of various fields of psychology, philosophy, and religion helped bring a unique and borderline profound point of view to the game. I would love for Takahashi and Tanaka to have a translated copy of this series one day in the future.
Gonna save this video for tomorrow since I have a day of flying, but I'm really happy you guys did this game. I've only played Xenoblade so hearing of the series routes felt really impactful.
20 weeks of content finally drawing to a close. Its been an amazing journey which I plan to continue with Retrograde Amnesias analysis as well! Question. Is this the only RPG ever where the main villain legitimately wins and gets what he wants? I can't think of a single other. Kefka destroys the world right and becomes a God but we also kill him at the end thus he isnt currently reigning/winning. There are many cases like Kefka where short term their goals get met but in the end they are always killed or removed from power in some other way. Krelian literally finished his task and got to keep it. I think he reigns supreme in that regard.
I would argue in some regard Metal Gear Solid Big Boss and Ocelot wanted to end their tragedy I mean death for them was release so long as the Patriots were taken down so ehh?
Krelian and Kefka (I’m realizing as of writing this) are the type of villains who no matter how much of their goals are accomplished, no matter how much they “win” in the end, they will continue to be profoundly empty deep down. Kefka may have ravaged the world to utterly ruined state, but it was never going to be enough. The emptiness he felt was never going to go away until he himself was dead and gone from the world, figuring that his conclusion that the thrill of destruction was the bigger picture and sought to bring everyone down with him in a blaze of glory. He was victorious but it was going to be short lived so long as the Returners continued to drew breath (and while the player was still in control). So I guess in an ironic twist Kefka did get what he wanted, just not his preferred outcome. Bit of speculation but I’m going off of the final boss dialogue and Kefka’s death scene in the first Dissidia. Krelian accomplished his goal of rejoining with God i.e. the Wave Existence, but didn’t get what he truly wanted, which was to be loved (mainly by Sophia). Krelian, overcome by such immense grief and tragedy over Sophia’s sacrifice, misinterpreted her words, and sought to create God. Regardless of how those plans would change overtime, it was not the love and companionship he truly wanted, and it was especially not the wish that Sophia wanted for humanity. Makes you wonder if over those many long years if Krelian realized what Sophia meant, but it was already far to late to turn back from the course he had laid out for himself.
Congratulation on finishing the quest! You have actually inspired me to retell the story to my Spanish teacher. I have edited the walkthrough of the game into a film and have been telling her the story in Spanish every lesson for 3 months already, mentioning many things that you noticed.
Congratulations for ending this journey and thank you for that. I cant really tell much after this epic five month(?!!). Maybe there was a question about the post credit scene and the symbolism there. There is. If you remember the intro, there parts of the ship crushed the world like flaming fireballs. And here a shining leaf-like dancing thing just descend before the characters eyes. I think thats a sign of change, that humanity and there will to be here without shadows of their past have arrived here finally. So the landing is just completed in a way. Also interesting symbolism that when Ellie meets Fei the first time she points a gun at him. And when she is saved by him, and merged with Miane the first thing she does is shooting him. It's like completing the same act, closing a circuit. About the crime and punishment concept ... yeah. I think we just want to see everybody get what they deserve. Good result for good deeds (Fei and Ellie) and bad-sad endings for the malicious people ... I guess that is natural or something. But I would gladly read the book which is always mentioned in the works Mr. Arc. You have at least on fix buyer.
This video reminded me of a old famous short story about computers and gods. It went more or less like this: The humans ask the computer the question "Does God exist?" and the computer printed out a piece of paper with written: "Insufficient computational power". So the humans built another computer and connected it to the first one. But the answer didn't change: "Insufficient computational power". Humans build more and more computers over the years. They became smaller, faster and able to do all sorts of things and answer all sort of questions. But to the question: "Does God exist?" the answer was always the same: "Insufficient computational power". Humans eventually went to space to colonize other planets and they build even more advanced computers, all connected together into one big sysytem. Computers able to even replicate themselves to build new ones. But the answer to that question didn't change: "Insufficient computational power". Eventually one day, humans went exinct. And on that day, the computers, who are still trying to answer the original question: "Does God exist?" finally give the answer: "Now, it does." Edit: the original novel is slightly different from what I've told you. It only tells the last moments of the story. It's called "The Answer" by Fredric Brown (1954)
As you were describing this story, I said, "Ah, he's talking about "The Last Question" by Isaac Asimov." I wasn't familiar with "The Answer" by Fredric Brown until now, but I can see that the premise is similar in a lot of ways. A lot of the details from your summary that are absent from "The Answer" are present in "The Last Question," so I think you were combining the two stories in your mind.
Did the contact really only had the few lives being Kim the second advent? I always thought they went through a lot of reincarnations, and just Abel, Kim, Lacan and Fei were the most important ones, story wise at least. The begining of disc 2 seems to point at this, when both Elly and Fei mention the lives of countless other men and woman, when refering to their past lives.
Just want to say to both Kasen and Mike. After finishing this amazing breakdown video series of this extrodinary game. You have to do this with Xenosaga now.
I wonder if back in 1996 if Tetsuya Takahashi and Soraya Saga had a conversation with Hideaki Anno about their interest and beliefs because Evangelion and Xenogears really complement each other. I hope there is a break down of Xenosaga in the future😏😏 If you decide to break down anime, maybe Angel’s egg 😏
I still need to catch up on the last episode, but commenting for the almighty algorithm. Good work, guys!!!! Can't believe it's coming to an end!!! 20 episodes was a LOT.
Thank you for making this amazing beast of a podcast-series! You had the perfect dynamic of Casen playing for the first time and a veteran who' gone through the Xenogears lore and influence rabbit hole. I thought I knew a lot about my favourite JRPG but every episode you taught me tons of new things and brought totally new viewpoints to scenes that I would've never considered. Looked forward to watching/listening to this every week while working. Just incredible job all around. It was clearly not an easy task and took its toll but I really appreciate you going through it. Looking forward to the next game, whichever it ends up being!
"We will announce next podcast what our next game will be. Anyway, here's a new Mass Effect playthrough we're uploading on our Archive channel..." Oh boy the suspense hahaha
I do feel as though having Krelian show some remorse or a disdain for certain actions he had to perform would have helped the idea that he held no hatred for humanity. Through out most of the story he comes across as mostly indifferent, which was probably to align him with Karelin character from childhood's end, though I would describe that as more ambivalence. If anyone hasn't read it, I recommend it. Childhood's is fantastic and not too long, it's one of the few stories that shook me with a tinge of fear from an idea it presents. Also for the point at which you see the decent between the two one winged beings, this time you are in the Xenogear which its design, to me at least, always looked like the representation of light shining forth with beams reaching outward from the source. While this is about Xenosaga and not Xenogears it relates to the thought experiment that you mentioned. Within Xenosaga ep:1 the character Cherenkov is put through multiple personality reconditioning (I believe that is what it was called in the game) too keep him from having his mental breakdowns and murdering those who trigger something in his mental state. Sorry it's been years since I last played it so I don't remember the specifics. The point is, He is only put under observation as their is no need to imprison people when you can remove the cause of their actions. this brings up the question of what is the difference between a machine and biological life when a human mind can be reprogrammed no different than a machine. Although he is resistant to the treatment as he does not whish to lose his sense of self simply becoming one of the many, the basic ideas are still present. I'm glad I'm not the only one who was so thrown off by Bart's voice.
Regarding the question of redemption/forgiveness after heavy sin yall were talking about during Krelian's final scene. I would recommend reading the manga Monster by Naoki Urasawa as it goes indepth on that theme through a good crime mystery/psychological thriller narrative with a very compelling villain.
To the discussion of forgiveness: Dan was able to forgive Fei because he was able to understand him, even though for Dan it was something horrible that happened, that "Fei's monster" did, he knows and understands he is not that monster anymore so he forgives, he truly forgives. That goes full circle with Krelian's point about humans understanding each other, if he thinks humans are incapable of such thing then he knows nobody will truly forgive him, so living again as a human will be more of a punishment hell as his own consciousness will be torturing him along with the rest of the people, whereas by joining God, the only one truly able to understand him and forgive him he will be in peace and forgiven. So unless we as humans can really understand each other, we will never be able to forgive bad people who are healed and truly repented from their "evil" doings and their sins.
What a Blast its been these past 5 Months!!! You guys have done us long time fans of Xenogears justice by doing such a great insight into its story and philosophies. Also Chu Chu can heal gears with ether abilities during battles 😜😁🤗
1:02:17 the idea of going back to the place where all things were one reminds me so much of Neon Genesis Evangelion and the Human Instrumentality Project. It's like he's running away from his problems and just wants to go back to being primordial soup (the LCL in Evangelion), without individuality. In general, Evangelion compliments Xenogears nicely in some aspects. Both easily some of my favorite works.
I remember seeing the trailer for cloud atlas and thinking, “is this inspired by xenogears somehow?” I’m amazed you guys brought it up. I thought I was the only one…
When you were talking about the dimension with the water, the artists drew the characters in their likeness for the player to keep track of what is going on. Remember the Wave Existence has no form, so this “world” is that of waves and energy.
I’ve had such a great time here with you guys, after 20 episodes I feel like we’ve all bonded in some way over this Amazing game. Thanks again Mike and Casen for your hard work and bringing such a joyful experience to us all.
At 31:02 the talk of the Ravine terrorist group and Casen identifying the FF7 parallels, Ravine is a mistranslation of Lawine, a German word that means Avalanche
Becoming one with the wave existence sounds very similar to "third impact" in evangelion, where everyone is absorbed into a single communal consciousness and it creates a world without pain, but also a world without individual identity - although it lacks any sort of higher being. Everyone is quite literally a soup. The main character rejects this under the premise that other people are worth the pain they will inevitably inflict on each other. A main aspect of the show being the inability to connect with people do to fear of pain and judgement.
If I was doing the Deus dungeon I think it would be interesting if it was more bloody and meaty in addition to being metallic. Make it messy to reflect it being made out of PEEEEEEOPLE
I came here for my love of Xenogears, but you two are fantastic. It’s a real pleasure listening to you both delve into the deeper meaning of the game and beyond with its parallels to modern and past societies. Thoroughly enjoyed this whole series, thank you guys
Just found this podcast and you guys really crushed it with your in depth analysis. Remember playing this as kid and so much went over my head but from the opening cinematic this has always been one of my favorites on the PS1. Played it again last year but after watching this I started another playthrough. So a huge thank you to you both for covering this game!!
The world of Xenogears isn't "totally unrelated" to Earth. The Eldridge had all sorts of lore/artifacts from Earth, as a seed ship. The Zohar "misinterpreted" all those things from Abel's mind when bringing them to life on the game's planet. Christmas, philosopher's names and theories, all of the religious symbolism. That's part of why I think Xenogears is great. Even this is a "broken shard". All the metaphor we see often in other Jrps is more literal in this game. A shadow of the original writings, fated to me misinterpreted. Likely on how we do so in real life even with the aid of professional exegesis. The Zohar engine brings the myth of the man of yore (Lost Jerusalem) into matter, into flesh. Distorted through the lens of those who wished for it (Abel, the Contact).
@@joelkirkwood8224 I mean, what else could it be? The 10 000 years, the understanding of the themes behind the references where the misplacement of them in the story. The world's technology being from the past rather than something strive for in the future, tied to archeology, due to escavation of the Eldrige. This being the last remnants of Earth. Imagine if we had a nuclear winter where only 0.00001% of the population survived. Our infrastructure would become useless, and things would start spreading through word of mouth again. In time, throughout the generations, the information of the old worl would become distoreted, and even the highest tech of today would have to interpreted by the lens of that new world. Same goes for the most ancient of texts. In perfect works you have a section explaning how the Zohar works, how it is essencially a genie in a lamp. Elahym came from such an internal wish from Abel. Elahym, so why would it not work for the rest? Myth and reality, blurred into on another, to bring forth it all on this empty canvas that is the new planet. This is an interesting twist on the idea of "God is in the future". That we are the ones to create it. As in, AI and such inventions. Here, it's Deus. And retroactively, "it created us", in the world of Xenogears, where Krelian and the Gazel yearn to return to. But from the point of view of Lost Jerusalem, Deus came after. But since all that history is lost, "Deus" gets to be the "Maker". Thanks to Zohar, the myth of the creator becomes reality.
@@BinaryDood almost gives it a Planet of the Apes style twist. Although if that was the intention they needed a Charlton Heston character from our perspective to really hammer that point home.
This has been really great. Truly one of the best analysis of Xenogears and just one of the best series on the internet period. I would only disagree w/ a few interpretations, such as the wave existence intentions both at the start of the game and when interacting w/ Krellian. It may be a different in Perfect Works but as it is explained in the game the Wave Existence doesn't really have an acute awareness or motivations beyond returning to it's realm. In it's own words it didn't even have a definable existence until interacting w/ Abel and it's form is a reflection of the perception of the person and their desires as apposed to it's own will. Thus it is not complicit in the takeover of the Eldridge as that was incidental to it's attempt to fulfil the perception of Abel for his mother. Likewise I don't think Krellian represents the will of the wave existence beyond it being a reflection of his own perception and desires. That is the desires of the wave existence only manifest as a result of the desires of those who come into contact with it, not desires born of itself. After all, as was discussed, what purpose or desires can be found in a perfect and infinite existence. Still it is always a pleasure to hear other viewpoints and perspectives of the game and it's subjects. I know this has really burned out Mike and Casen and they need a chance to rest after this, but I sincerely hope that one day they give Xenosaga this treatment as well. It would be fascinating to get their perspectives on the philosophy present in those games and what they think about where the series went from here.
Thank you all so much for your work on this podcast! Now that things are (close to) finished i'd like to ask, whats the song you guys use for your outro? Its such a beautiful piece, it'd be great to be able to listen to it fully. (apologies for the unrelated question)
The never-ending need for conflict is reflected, in my opinion, by our fascination with duality and why we cannot truly understand each other except through conflict. Oddly enough, this points to the power of sports and games, at their purest at least. By creating artificial conflict through division and impartial application of a rule set that forces a new role onto the athlete (and by extension the fans) we can act out our need for conflict in a stage way while still promoting the growth of the person. This same ideology can be extended to other games, video games, ttrpgs, board games, card games…. Etc It can be further extrapolated, considering our fascination and obsession with the ‘story’, to help fulfill this need for conflict and resolution for our growth. Damn, this game is a masterpiece.
31:30 I figured that Kim was talking about “winning” in the sense that if he had access to all of the medical equipment that needed power to operate, he could have “won” his struggle to save the child’s life. I figured it was another awkward translation and never considered the “he was part of the terrorists” angle since it seemed to be completely absent from the story in the game.
I just finished this game and I loved it! And I loved following along with the podcast as I played! Sidenote: if not for backup saves I would have had to start over from duneman isle :/
This is one of the reasons Xenogears is my favorite game. Despite it's flaws, look at how deep the conversation between has gotten because of the game. The philosophical message from the game is amazing.
I am just as sad about this series ending as I am every time I finish Xenogears. I can't accurately express how much I've enjoyed this along with this last playthrough. Lots of love for you guys!
Top 10 greatest videogame stories: 10. Silent Hill 2 9. Metal Gear Solid 8. Final Fantasy VI 7. Xenoblade Chronicles 6. Bioshock Infinite 5. Chrono Trigger 4. Final Fantasy IX 3. Bioshock 2. Final Fantasy VII 1. Xenogears
@@matthewdunaway7622 I own the game but haven't played it yet. I heard nothing but good things about it's story though. Gotta get to it. Anything you can tell me about the game?
That concept of becoming too bored from being an ever-existing godlike being is explored in Umineko too through the witches observing endless "fragments", which are possible realities of the lives of people. Essentially it's an analogy for feeling mortal and feeling emotions through engaging in art.
I think the "RE" word they were trying to think of regarding the ultimate fate of villains is Retribution. The idea that one must pay or be punished for their crimes, as apposed to something like Egalitarianism or Utilitarianism where the goal is to fix or reform the criminal. Although many people disparage the practice now day's as simple revenge it is likely the most ancient concept of Justice. The concept is presented as proper justice in many religions such as the bible, the Torah and Qur'an as well as ancient Babylonian and Roman societies and eastern philosophies as well such the Hindu concept of Karma (I also read that it is present in certain Buddhist teaching as well but an not familiar with it enough to know where). So there does seem to be some deeply ingrained, innate, or possibly instinctual desire in humanity for this outcome. Side not on that is as far as Christianity goes, from my understanding as a former Christian, the way they reconcile this w/ forgiveness is that doing so requires a judgement which is solely in the realm of gods powers. Thus they must meet god if they seek forgiveness for their sins as only he can grant it.
Phenomenal work on this!!!! This is is the best series of the podcast I've viewed so far, by far. I wasn't even aware of Xenogears prior to this podcast but I played the game for the first time while watching this series and wow. I thought FF7 was the best RPG on the PS1, and something quite possibly better was somehow totally off my radar?! 1:05 is when I realized how impactful this game and this podcast are! Again great work.
It pains me to hear you guys talk about how exhausted this series led you to be. Playing this game along with you guys was THE BEST! I am so looking forward to the next game... when you're ready, of course. Bravo!
Incredible series you two, I never personally finished XG back in the day and certainly did not grasp the richness of the story when I was younger. It's been a wild ride following your analysis and getting to relive this classic. Looking forward to the final instalment and thanks for pouring so much into this masterpiece.
For exp grinding there is an island where you have a desert zone where you can fight gear sized dragons but you're on foot, and they have elemental weakness and absorb so you need to chose the right 7 point deathblow to use
It should also be noted that Shevat freezing Fei in carbonite is a complete 180 on its principles. When you first walk around Shevat, the prison guard there says they haven’t used the prison in hundreds of years. Shevat is a postcarceral state in a video game made in 1998. That’s how ahead of its time it was.
On the topic of forgiveness, there's a Star Wars book called "Victory's Price" from earlier this year focuses on that following the final dissolution of the Empire after Return of the Jedi. It's the third book of a trilogy about starfighter pilots on both sides of the conflict, dealing with who can (or cannot) be forgiven and what the societal implications are after the final collapse of the Empire. Lots of parallels with the aftermath of WWII. It was a surprisingly thought provoking read!
I think I've said this before in another episode of this podcast, but please do check out the gear arena in Kislev before you enter the final dungeon. You can play as other gears (even some boss gears) and try out their movesets. It's pretty sick.
Well done guys! Just absolutely well done. I’ve throughly enjoyed your takes on the story and there are a lot of plot points that I had forgotten about. Your original retrospective some years back on this very game hooked me on the channel, and I’m glad you did this deep dive. Xenogears was the first game I played that really set apart from the rest with such a deep story line. (FF Tactics is the other) and there weren’t many people that I knew who played it and actually enjoyed the experience. Finally, it’s nice to know that Casen had a hard time finishing these games. I’m just like this, with the games. I just don’t want the thing to end.
Man if this podcast convinced me of one thing is that I definitely need to do a 2nd play through of Xenogears. I love this game so much and it hits different compared to most media I’ve experienced. That being said, I agree 100% with Mike with the final dungeon and I do not look forward to traversing it again. It’s easily my least favorite final dungeon of all time and it’s the worst thing in the game🤣. I will say tho completing it to see the conclusion of the game is super worth it but yea make sure you use a guide when u get there otherwise you’re going lose your mind lol.
1:56:00 - The only way I see this working on a human level, is for the offender to 'die' as a symbol. To strip them of self-identity and to be 'reborn' anew without memory of what they had done previously. Something I don't think we can physically do for anyone. Death is often seen as the ultimate redemption in some stories.
What an incredible experience has been reliving this game with you guys. People that say that videogames are not art would be better to just play such an amazing game so they could understand how an interactive medium can make us connect more deeply with a history. Incredible job guys, thank you very mucho for working on this.
@@Btotts the gears running off energy from the zohar is canon. The slave generator requests energy from the zohar according to perfect works. It wouldn't make much sense for you to "charge" gasoline would it?
@@chrislennon460 yeah, I guess that makes sense. Funny, I always knew the Zohar provided energy for the gears, but I never made the connection with fuel. This seems like an area where if you dig in too much, you'll pull out plot holes, so I'll just leave well enough alone.
Thanks and nicely done for this odyssey of a playthrough and surrounding deep discussions. In regards to the “re-“ term you were trying to name in regards to people not wanting to accept an evil person simply being let off the hook, was it “retributive justice”? The idea that evil must be punished rather than forgiven and made all the more palatable if the punishment is seen as divinely mandated. It’s a concept that has influenced everything from religious beliefs to criminal justice systems. And I have to admit, after all this time Krelian escaping severe consequences and being characterized as a kind, loving person deep down doesn’t stick right with me after all these years, so I’m hardly exempt either. Also, wasn’t the machinery shown in the last shot the remnants of kadmony and not Solaris? I don’t think it’s meant to specifically be meant to symbolize anything other than perhaps the oppressive systems of the past being left behind.
Mike, I respect your opinions, always appreciate your perspective. Regarding immortality and “apotheosis”, why would an infinite mind with the potential for instantaneous change be limited by a desire for conflict or the infliction of tedium? If I were God, why would I suffer from boredom? I would be god…I don’t need to suffer from anything. Same deal goes for immortality, but almost doubly so. In an infinite amount of time, I’ll forget more than I could ever hope to remember at once. Every aeon would be a new journey of rediscovery. Is conflict and friction always needed to make existence meaningful?
The post credit scene has an energy feather flying. The same color of Krelian angel wings. I think that wants to tell something like Krelian did came back in a long distant future as you see grass over Solaris… or something totally different… but i don’t this it’s meaningless
I think I speak for everyone when I say a massive thank you to the both of you. The level of research and analysis you put into studying Xenogears, flawed masterpiece as it is, is second to none. Probably the most comprehensive coverage of not only the game itself, but the layers upon layers of philosophy built into the script. You could easily write a whole thesis on this game just by watching this video series alone. Thanks for all of the fun and insight, and I'm sure we're all really looking forward to the next one.
#Chuchudidnothingwrong
Future UA-cam classic. May the algorithm bring many new and old fans here again! I am so happy I decided to pull that PS1 jewel case out of mothballs to finally go through this game with you guys. This channel “resonates” with me and almost everything I love about stories in games and I hope to continue to support it well into the future. Great job, guys!
Facts
I said in the discord but I think it's important to note, on the final cutscene with Krelian.
"Right in the final cutscene there is a very obvious turn on the metaphor that everybody tends to miss though it is pretty obvious (perhaps distracted by the terrible voice acting and off lipsync)
but Krelian grows TWO wings - In a world of one winged angels. Perhaps years of angel looking creatures in Jrpgs distracted us from the relevancy of this.
I think this is important because Xenogears is all about putting shattered fragments together. Uniting the warring nations, the truth of history, Fei's psyche, the Deus system. Krellian is unable to be a fragment, he is obsessed with wholeness, becoming one with an ultimate truth. In a way he escapes the conditions he was born into, and life itself. He had yearned to be one of the angels with one wing, and in that he admires Fei and Elly, who complete each other. Ascending to "Heaven"/The higher dimension is the prison his ambition made to himself. He can't help but to fly on his own, alone.
So he didn’t just drink a Redbull?
In simpler terms, he's the ultimate cuck who was jealous of Fei/Lacan for getting to be with Elly lollll. Now I truly see the inspiration of N from XC3.
In all seriousness Krelian is an interesting villain, and I can see aspects of him (alongside Grahf) in both Jin from XC2 and N from XC3.
@@Nano20710 I havent played the more recent Xenoblade games. Everything past 1 and maybe X seems to have no soul. Correct me if I'm wrong.
@@BinaryDood Xenoblade 1 I felt was the most lackluster of the trilogy. 2 and especially 3 share a lot of ideas from Xenogears and repurposed them to be more approachable. It's definitely not lacking in any soul, especially Xenoblade 3 which is imo the most emotional and heartfelt game of the franchise. It also has very many parallels with Xenogears especially with the 2 main leads, whose love story is very reminiscent of Fei and Elly.
nah, i saw the wings as more artistic ... the moment was Krellian reflecting on the moment he lost his humanity (arms spread making his proclamation after they killed Lecan) and all the crimes he committed and at that moment (in the void) the return of his humanity and his final emotion before departing the physical world is still his envy of Lecan and that he has Elly's love .... a love Krellian has but would never be reciprocated
I have been playing Xenogears since 1998 when I was 8 years old. Didn’t start understanding a general gist of it until my teen years. And have been listening and watching videos regarding its story for years into my adult life.
Shows how incredible this story is when I am still learning new things about it and getting new perspectives. I have learned a lot from this podcast and thank you both so much for this series! Can not wait for the final episode with the wonderful Retrograde Amnesia fellows!
Lacan, Krelian, and Fei are the Niechian idea of the destruction of belief systems. Krelian loses his faith and turns to Nihilism, Lacan loses his faith and creates a new structure, "power", but ultimately fails since he can't face the tragedy that befell him. However, Fei puts his "faith" in humanity, but only after confronting and accepting the responsibility for the tragedy that befell him.
The conversation with Krelian between the two fights absolutely demolished me. I could SEEEEEEEE with my own two eyes basically every element in the story being reflected in that dialogue. I was as immersed in something as I have ever been in my entire life, I'm not the type of person to say these type of things but simply put, it was a deeply spiritual moment for me. The visuals, the song, everything. Holy... I'm completely blown away by this game and I could only appreciate it this much because of this podcast. I know you guys became really tired from doing this but from the bottom of my heart, thank you for doing it and from putting your all into the project.
I've known and love this channel for many years, after consuming this podcast and getting the experience I have because of it, I feel like it's no longer an option for me, I HAVE to support you. Signed up for Patreon, thank you so much for doing this.
32:05 I think he is referring to the operation on the child rather than a military operation. Probably a mistranslation, but a better way to put it would be "We would have been successful if we had better equipment."
This one is correct. From a medical profession point of view (Which I'm not but I did graduate from a medical degree) Most Doctors, Nurses and Health Staff hype themselves up on a daily basis by approaching their work as a battle against Death.
Xenogears may end up going down as my favorite game of all time. Even with all its incomplete-ness and over the top ambition, this game is a spectacle to behold. And I most probably would not have gained this much appreciation for this unbelievably complex game if it wasn't for this analysis series.
Thank you Mike and Casen!
Ramsus should have been like a secret final playable character. Maybe in the remake.
I believe it was planned to make him playable here but time and budget restrained them from implementing it.
Pls let there be a remake in my life time
@@fezanaterdamn we were gonna get a Magus situation with Ramsus? That would have been perfect.
Umineko has an interesting spin on understanding other people with the central theme and quote of the whole story being: "Without love the truth cannot be seen."
An amazing story. Definitely missed a lot of things on my initial playthrough but the situation with Fei’s psychology and the dissociative identity disorder was both incredibly interesting and thought provoking. Definitely something you don’t see often. Great job and I will definitely be watching this whole series at some point. Nier Automata when?
Hey guys, I wanted to give a correction on the message on the music box. You don't need Emerelda with you. You don't even need to wait for the end of the game. When you enter that building at the beginning of the game and interact with the side with the message is on, you can read it then too.
I have to thank you guys so much. I started playing Xenogears June 3rd and wanted to do a deeper dive. I’ve been reading Perfect Works and watching your episodes. Not only are the episodes fun, engaging, and informative, they’ve been great time sinks at my new job I started. I’m a security guard so lots of downtime and waiting around. Thanks for all the content that lasted me the entire month of June. I plan on following along with FFXVI, Vagrant Story, and FF Tactics. Thanks for all the hard work and research, it’s my second run but you guys helped explain so many details I missed or context I didn’t think much about.
Can’t wait to watch more episodes. This has been a great way to revisit these classic PlayStation games and treating them like the rich deep and complicated novels they actually are.
"Does the feather mean that Krelian could return or has returned?" I don't know, Casen. I guess you'll have to find out in... episode VI. **Takahashi puts on sunglasses**
I think Emeralda could change her shape without needing to create more nanomachines. If you imagine they are just spreading out thinner, or maybe there's a hollow cavity inside the main body that gets bigger. She probably has to do something like that for her attacks where her hair grows into a weapon briefly. It would be dumb to have to create and then destroy a bunch of nanomachines just for one attack.
The sword in the dragon skeleton's back is doc's second most powerful sword, his most powerful drops from the dragons that spawn there.
Literally yelped when I saw this in my subscription feed. Can't wait to watch this! What a journey it's been.
Re: "and this is Bart's only spoken line in the game"
He (and others) have spoken dialogue that plays when you win or lose at the card game on the Thames. When Bart loses he screams "...JERK!"
You guys have set up a gold standard for what a videogame podcast should be. This was a great series coverage. Thank you. Also, we may not know you IRL but we all feel ya like friends due to the positive vibes you put in the work. Wish you many successes in the future to both.
Ps: Not mine to say what you should do, but guys could really get more traction on the videos by replying to comments here and there, it helps to build the interaction around the videos
@Octavia 1z Heck yea!
I've really appreciated this podcast and especially this series covering Xenogears. Gave me an excuse to play through it to completion for the first time! It's been a really great journey to play along with the podcast and gain a new understanding for one of my favorite games. Thanks a lot for this series and looking forward to see what other games you guys cover!
Pat yourselves on the back, guys! This has been the best analysis I've seen of Xenogears to date. Having Casen give his two cents from a newcomer's perspective coupled with his pre-existing knowledge of various fields of psychology, philosophy, and religion helped bring a unique and borderline profound point of view to the game. I would love for Takahashi and Tanaka to have a translated copy of this series one day in the future.
Gonna save this video for tomorrow since I have a day of flying, but I'm really happy you guys did this game. I've only played Xenoblade so hearing of the series routes felt really impactful.
Thank you so much for this series, this Xenogears series and your retrospectives are some of the best video game content on youtube.
20 weeks of content finally drawing to a close. Its been an amazing journey which I plan to continue with Retrograde Amnesias analysis as well!
Question. Is this the only RPG ever where the main villain legitimately wins and gets what he wants? I can't think of a single other.
Kefka destroys the world right and becomes a God but we also kill him at the end thus he isnt currently reigning/winning.
There are many cases like Kefka where short term their goals get met but in the end they are always killed or removed from power in some other way.
Krelian literally finished his task and got to keep it.
I think he reigns supreme in that regard.
I would argue in some regard Metal Gear Solid Big Boss and Ocelot wanted to end their tragedy I mean death for them was release so long as the Patriots were taken down so ehh?
Krelian and Kefka (I’m realizing as of writing this) are the type of villains who no matter how much of their goals are accomplished, no matter how much they “win” in the end, they will continue to be profoundly empty deep down.
Kefka may have ravaged the world to utterly ruined state, but it was never going to be enough. The emptiness he felt was never going to go away until he himself was dead and gone from the world, figuring that his conclusion that the thrill of destruction was the bigger picture and sought to bring everyone down with him in a blaze of glory. He was victorious but it was going to be short lived so long as the Returners continued to drew breath (and while the player was still in control). So I guess in an ironic twist Kefka did get what he wanted, just not his preferred outcome. Bit of speculation but I’m going off of the final boss dialogue and Kefka’s death scene in the first Dissidia.
Krelian accomplished his goal of rejoining with God i.e. the Wave Existence, but didn’t get what he truly wanted, which was to be loved (mainly by Sophia). Krelian, overcome by such immense grief and tragedy over Sophia’s sacrifice, misinterpreted her words, and sought to create God. Regardless of how those plans would change overtime, it was not the love and companionship he truly wanted, and it was especially not the wish that Sophia wanted for humanity. Makes you wonder if over those many long years if Krelian realized what Sophia meant, but it was already far to late to turn back from the course he had laid out for himself.
What an amazing last episode! Thank you guys for doing this. I enjoyed the series immensely.
Congratulation on finishing the quest! You have actually inspired me to retell the story to my Spanish teacher. I have edited the walkthrough of the game into a film and have been telling her the story in Spanish every lesson for 3 months already, mentioning many things that you noticed.
Congratulations for ending this journey and thank you for that.
I cant really tell much after this epic five month(?!!). Maybe there was a question about the post credit scene and the symbolism there. There is. If you remember the intro, there parts of the ship crushed the world like flaming fireballs. And here a shining leaf-like dancing thing just descend before the characters eyes. I think thats a sign of change, that humanity and there will to be here without shadows of their past have arrived here finally. So the landing is just completed in a way.
Also interesting symbolism that when Ellie meets Fei the first time she points a gun at him. And when she is saved by him, and merged with Miane the first thing she does is shooting him. It's like completing the same act, closing a circuit.
About the crime and punishment concept ... yeah. I think we just want to see everybody get what they deserve. Good result for good deeds (Fei and Ellie) and bad-sad endings for the malicious people ... I guess that is natural or something. But I would gladly read the book which is always mentioned in the works Mr. Arc. You have at least on fix buyer.
This video reminded me of a old famous short story about computers and gods. It went more or less like this:
The humans ask the computer the question "Does God exist?" and the computer printed out a piece of paper with written: "Insufficient computational power". So the humans built another computer and connected it to the first one. But the answer didn't change: "Insufficient computational power". Humans build more and more computers over the years. They became smaller, faster and able to do all sorts of things and answer all sort of questions. But to the question: "Does God exist?" the answer was always the same: "Insufficient computational power". Humans eventually went to space to colonize other planets and they build even more advanced computers, all connected together into one big sysytem. Computers able to even replicate themselves to build new ones. But the answer to that question didn't change: "Insufficient computational power".
Eventually one day, humans went exinct. And on that day, the computers, who are still trying to answer the original question:
"Does God exist?"
finally give the answer:
"Now, it does."
Edit: the original novel is slightly different from what I've told you. It only tells the last moments of the story. It's called "The Answer" by Fredric Brown (1954)
As you were describing this story, I said, "Ah, he's talking about "The Last Question" by Isaac Asimov." I wasn't familiar with "The Answer" by Fredric Brown until now, but I can see that the premise is similar in a lot of ways. A lot of the details from your summary that are absent from "The Answer" are present in "The Last Question," so I think you were combining the two stories in your mind.
@@WildMatsu Yeah, that's just how I've heard it the first time
Playing XC3 before this game is insane. All the nods and story beats/plot shared between the games is so cool to see. Love these Xeno games :)
Excellent work on this coverage of Xenogears! It was so great seeing a great retrospective of such a formative game of my youth!
Did the contact really only had the few lives being Kim the second advent? I always thought they went through a lot of reincarnations, and just Abel, Kim, Lacan and Fei were the most important ones, story wise at least. The begining of disc 2 seems to point at this, when both Elly and Fei mention the lives of countless other men and woman, when refering to their past lives.
Just want to say to both Kasen and Mike. After finishing this amazing breakdown video series of this extrodinary game. You have to do this with Xenosaga now.
The whole "understand one another" conversation @ 1:08:13 is exactly why I like you both.
I wonder if back in 1996 if Tetsuya Takahashi and Soraya Saga had a conversation with Hideaki Anno about their interest and beliefs because Evangelion and Xenogears really complement each other.
I hope there is a break down of Xenosaga in the future😏😏
If you decide to break down anime, maybe Angel’s egg 😏
Great job on the editing. I've appreciated how tight it was when you went through dialogs
I still need to catch up on the last episode, but commenting for the almighty algorithm. Good work, guys!!!! Can't believe it's coming to an end!!! 20 episodes was a LOT.
Thank you for making this amazing beast of a podcast-series! You had the perfect dynamic of Casen playing for the first time and a veteran who' gone through the Xenogears lore and influence rabbit hole.
I thought I knew a lot about my favourite JRPG but every episode you taught me tons of new things and brought totally new viewpoints to scenes that I would've never considered. Looked forward to watching/listening to this every week while working. Just incredible job all around.
It was clearly not an easy task and took its toll but I really appreciate you going through it. Looking forward to the next game, whichever it ends up being!
"We will announce next podcast what our next game will be. Anyway, here's a new Mass Effect playthrough we're uploading on our Archive channel..."
Oh boy the suspense hahaha
I do feel as though having Krelian show some remorse or a disdain for certain actions he had to perform would have helped the idea that he held no hatred for humanity. Through out most of the story he comes across as mostly indifferent, which was probably to align him with Karelin character from childhood's end, though I would describe that as more ambivalence. If anyone hasn't read it, I recommend it. Childhood's is fantastic and not too long, it's one of the few stories that shook me with a tinge of fear from an idea it presents. Also for the point at which you see the decent between the two one winged beings, this time you are in the Xenogear which its design, to me at least, always looked like the representation of light shining forth with beams reaching outward from the source.
While this is about Xenosaga and not Xenogears it relates to the thought experiment that you mentioned. Within Xenosaga ep:1 the character Cherenkov is put through multiple personality reconditioning (I believe that is what it was called in the game) too keep him from having his mental breakdowns and murdering those who trigger something in his mental state. Sorry it's been years since I last played it so I don't remember the specifics. The point is, He is only put under observation as their is no need to imprison people when you can remove the cause of their actions. this brings up the question of what is the difference between a machine and biological life when a human mind can be reprogrammed no different than a machine. Although he is resistant to the treatment as he does not whish to lose his sense of self simply becoming one of the many, the basic ideas are still present.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who was so thrown off by Bart's voice.
Regarding the question of redemption/forgiveness after heavy sin yall were talking about during Krelian's final scene. I would recommend reading the manga Monster by Naoki Urasawa as it goes indepth on that theme through a good crime mystery/psychological thriller narrative with a very compelling villain.
You can read the message on the side of the music box from the start of the game. Don't need emeralda with you.
To the discussion of forgiveness: Dan was able to forgive Fei because he was able to understand him, even though for Dan it was something horrible that happened, that "Fei's monster" did, he knows and understands he is not that monster anymore so he forgives, he truly forgives.
That goes full circle with Krelian's point about humans understanding each other, if he thinks humans are incapable of such thing then he knows nobody will truly forgive him, so living again as a human will be more of a punishment hell as his own consciousness will be torturing him along with the rest of the people, whereas by joining God, the only one truly able to understand him and forgive him he will be in peace and forgiven.
So unless we as humans can really understand each other, we will never be able to forgive bad people who are healed and truly repented from their "evil" doings and their sins.
What a Blast its been these past 5 Months!!! You guys have done us long time fans of Xenogears justice by doing such a great insight into its story and philosophies.
Also Chu Chu can heal gears with ether abilities during battles 😜😁🤗
Congratulations on finishing this monster. Glad this podcast got me to finally play through Xenogears!
1:02:17 the idea of going back to the place where all things were one reminds me so much of Neon Genesis Evangelion and the Human Instrumentality Project. It's like he's running away from his problems and just wants to go back to being primordial soup (the LCL in Evangelion), without individuality. In general, Evangelion compliments Xenogears nicely in some aspects. Both easily some of my favorite works.
I remember seeing the trailer for cloud atlas and thinking, “is this inspired by xenogears somehow?” I’m amazed you guys brought it up. I thought I was the only one…
I literally had this same thought a couple weeks ago. The “tv room” scene in XG similarity to Matrix got me on that train of thought
Where do we go to ask the wachowkis if they’ve played xenogears lol. I feel like I need to know
@@citan554 I bet they have!
When you were talking about the dimension with the water, the artists drew the characters in their likeness for the player to keep track of what is going on. Remember the Wave Existence has no form, so this “world” is that of waves and energy.
I’ve had such a great time here with you guys, after 20 episodes I feel like we’ve all bonded in some way over this Amazing game. Thanks again Mike and Casen for your hard work and bringing such a joyful experience to us all.
At 31:02 the talk of the Ravine terrorist group and Casen identifying the FF7 parallels, Ravine is a mistranslation of Lawine, a German word that means Avalanche
Becoming one with the wave existence sounds very similar to "third impact" in evangelion, where everyone is absorbed into a single communal consciousness and it creates a world without pain, but also a world without individual identity - although it lacks any sort of higher being. Everyone is quite literally a soup. The main character rejects this under the premise that other people are worth the pain they will inevitably inflict on each other. A main aspect of the show being the inability to connect with people do to fear of pain and judgement.
If I was doing the Deus dungeon I think it would be interesting if it was more bloody and meaty in addition to being metallic. Make it messy to reflect it being made out of PEEEEEEOPLE
I came here for my love of Xenogears, but you two are fantastic. It’s a real pleasure listening to you both delve into the deeper meaning of the game and beyond with its parallels to modern and past societies. Thoroughly enjoyed this whole series, thank you guys
Just found this podcast and you guys really crushed it with your in depth analysis. Remember playing this as kid and so much went over my head but from the opening cinematic this has always been one of my favorites on the PS1. Played it again last year but after watching this I started another playthrough. So a huge thank you to you both for covering this game!!
The world of Xenogears isn't "totally unrelated" to Earth. The Eldridge had all sorts of lore/artifacts from Earth, as a seed ship. The Zohar "misinterpreted" all those things from Abel's mind when bringing them to life on the game's planet. Christmas, philosopher's names and theories, all of the religious symbolism. That's part of why I think Xenogears is great. Even this is a "broken shard". All the metaphor we see often in other Jrps is more literal in this game. A shadow of the original writings, fated to me misinterpreted. Likely on how we do so in real life even with the aid of professional exegesis. The Zohar engine brings the myth of the man of yore (Lost Jerusalem) into matter, into flesh. Distorted through the lens of those who wished for it (Abel, the Contact).
That’s an interesting theory. I don’t think that was the intention, but I like it.
@@joelkirkwood8224 I mean, what else could it be? The 10 000 years, the understanding of the themes behind the references where the misplacement of them in the story. The world's technology being from the past rather than something strive for in the future, tied to archeology, due to escavation of the Eldrige. This being the last remnants of Earth. Imagine if we had a nuclear winter where only 0.00001% of the population survived. Our infrastructure would become useless, and things would start spreading through word of mouth again. In time, throughout the generations, the information of the old worl would become distoreted, and even the highest tech of today would have to interpreted by the lens of that new world. Same goes for the most ancient of texts. In perfect works you have a section explaning how the Zohar works, how it is essencially a genie in a lamp. Elahym came from such an internal wish from Abel. Elahym, so why would it not work for the rest? Myth and reality, blurred into on another, to bring forth it all on this empty canvas that is the new planet.
This is an interesting twist on the idea of "God is in the future". That we are the ones to create it. As in, AI and such inventions. Here, it's Deus. And retroactively, "it created us", in the world of Xenogears, where Krelian and the Gazel yearn to return to. But from the point of view of Lost Jerusalem, Deus came after. But since all that history is lost, "Deus" gets to be the "Maker". Thanks to Zohar, the myth of the creator becomes reality.
@@BinaryDood almost gives it a Planet of the Apes style twist. Although if that was the intention they needed a Charlton Heston character from our perspective to really hammer that point home.
This has been really great. Truly one of the best analysis of Xenogears and just one of the best series on the internet period. I would only disagree w/ a few interpretations, such as the wave existence intentions both at the start of the game and when interacting w/ Krellian. It may be a different in Perfect Works but as it is explained in the game the Wave Existence doesn't really have an acute awareness or motivations beyond returning to it's realm. In it's own words it didn't even have a definable existence until interacting w/ Abel and it's form is a reflection of the perception of the person and their desires as apposed to it's own will. Thus it is not complicit in the takeover of the Eldridge as that was incidental to it's attempt to fulfil the perception of Abel for his mother. Likewise I don't think Krellian represents the will of the wave existence beyond it being a reflection of his own perception and desires. That is the desires of the wave existence only manifest as a result of the desires of those who come into contact with it, not desires born of itself. After all, as was discussed, what purpose or desires can be found in a perfect and infinite existence. Still it is always a pleasure to hear other viewpoints and perspectives of the game and it's subjects. I know this has really burned out Mike and Casen and they need a chance to rest after this, but I sincerely hope that one day they give Xenosaga this treatment as well. It would be fascinating to get their perspectives on the philosophy present in those games and what they think about where the series went from here.
Only 2 Hercules rings in the game. The other one is from buying the birds in created Shevat iirc.
Thank you all so much for your work on this podcast! Now that things are (close to) finished i'd like to ask, whats the song you guys use for your outro? Its such a beautiful piece, it'd be great to be able to listen to it fully. (apologies for the unrelated question)
The never-ending need for conflict is reflected, in my opinion, by our fascination with duality and why we cannot truly understand each other except through conflict.
Oddly enough, this points to the power of sports and games, at their purest at least.
By creating artificial conflict through division and impartial application of a rule set that forces a new role onto the athlete (and by extension the fans) we can act out our need for conflict in a stage way while still promoting the growth of the person.
This same ideology can be extended to other games, video games, ttrpgs, board games, card games…. Etc
It can be further extrapolated, considering our fascination and obsession with the ‘story’, to help fulfill this need for conflict and resolution for our growth.
Damn, this game is a masterpiece.
I thoroughly enjoyed this 20 episode series. Thank you for the countless hours of preparation and effort both of you made to bring it to fruition.
31:30 I figured that Kim was talking about “winning” in the sense that if he had access to all of the medical equipment that needed power to operate, he could have “won” his struggle to save the child’s life.
I figured it was another awkward translation and never considered the “he was part of the terrorists” angle since it seemed to be completely absent from the story in the game.
I just finished this game and I loved it! And I loved following along with the podcast as I played!
Sidenote: if not for backup saves I would have had to start over from duneman isle :/
This is one of the reasons Xenogears is my favorite game. Despite it's flaws, look at how deep the conversation between has gotten because of the game. The philosophical message from the game is amazing.
i think kim is referring to winning the battle for his patients life in the operating room, not ravine winning against the govt
I read the "do you really need to become God to comprehend this?" line as Fei calling Krelian out for having low social intelligence.
Fun fact the voice actor for Liquid Snake voiced Krelian.
I am just as sad about this series ending as I am every time I finish Xenogears. I can't accurately express how much I've enjoyed this along with this last playthrough. Lots of love for you guys!
@Octavia 1z I think you replied to the wrong comment lol. I don't see how this relates to what I said. Besides, iT's bEeN 2 DaYs. MoVe On AlReAdY
Top 10 greatest videogame stories:
10. Silent Hill 2
9. Metal Gear Solid
8. Final Fantasy VI
7. Xenoblade Chronicles
6. Bioshock Infinite
5. Chrono Trigger
4. Final Fantasy IX
3. Bioshock
2. Final Fantasy VII
1. Xenogears
I can’t take you seriously putting ff7 number 2
@@omensoffate clearly your opinion then is all that matters.
Have you played 13 Sentinels by any chance?
@@matthewdunaway7622 I own the game but haven't played it yet. I heard nothing but good things about it's story though. Gotta get to it. Anything you can tell me about the game?
@@GracelessTarnished I’m just messing with ya lol.
That concept of becoming too bored from being an ever-existing godlike being is explored in Umineko too through the witches observing endless "fragments", which are possible realities of the lives of people. Essentially it's an analogy for feeling mortal and feeling emotions through engaging in art.
I think the "RE" word they were trying to think of regarding the ultimate fate of villains is Retribution. The idea that one must pay or be punished for their crimes, as apposed to something like Egalitarianism or Utilitarianism where the goal is to fix or reform the criminal. Although many people disparage the practice now day's as simple revenge it is likely the most ancient concept of Justice. The concept is presented as proper justice in many religions such as the bible, the Torah and Qur'an as well as ancient Babylonian and Roman societies and eastern philosophies as well such the Hindu concept of Karma (I also read that it is present in certain Buddhist teaching as well but an not familiar with it enough to know where). So there does seem to be some deeply ingrained, innate, or possibly instinctual desire in humanity for this outcome.
Side not on that is as far as Christianity goes, from my understanding as a former Christian, the way they reconcile this w/ forgiveness is that doing so requires a judgement which is solely in the realm of gods powers. Thus they must meet god if they seek forgiveness for their sins as only he can grant it.
Phenomenal work on this!!!! This is is the best series of the podcast I've viewed so far, by far. I wasn't even aware of Xenogears prior to this podcast but I played the game for the first time while watching this series and wow. I thought FF7 was the best RPG on the PS1, and something quite possibly better was somehow totally off my radar?! 1:05 is when I realized how impactful this game and this podcast are! Again great work.
I believe the Ouroboros thing also references Nietzsche’s eternal return
With the headband you also have to also take into account Fei also still has his hair tied into a ponytail.
Such a great series covering my favorite game. So much love for you both
They were warned…. They were told all their gears would be shut down…. Magic would be eliminated…. They were warned, “You Don’t Mess with the Zohar”
Have you heard Bart's voice when he wins the card game? It's even more over the top macho there.
I am on episode 4 right know and loving it. Please do a series on the xenoblade games!
It pains me to hear you guys talk about how exhausted this series led you to be. Playing this game along with you guys was THE BEST! I am so looking forward to the next game... when you're ready, of course. Bravo!
Incredible series you two, I never personally finished XG back in the day and certainly did not grasp the richness of the story when I was younger. It's been a wild ride following your analysis and getting to relive this classic. Looking forward to the final instalment and thanks for pouring so much into this masterpiece.
For exp grinding there is an island where you have a desert zone where you can fight gear sized dragons but you're on foot, and they have elemental weakness and absorb so you need to chose the right 7 point deathblow to use
I never saw that final scene with Ramses and the Elementals, that's awesome.
It should also be noted that Shevat freezing Fei in carbonite is a complete 180 on its principles. When you first walk around Shevat, the prison guard there says they haven’t used the prison in hundreds of years. Shevat is a postcarceral state in a video game made in 1998. That’s how ahead of its time it was.
On the topic of forgiveness, there's a Star Wars book called "Victory's Price" from earlier this year focuses on that following the final dissolution of the Empire after Return of the Jedi. It's the third book of a trilogy about starfighter pilots on both sides of the conflict, dealing with who can (or cannot) be forgiven and what the societal implications are after the final collapse of the Empire. Lots of parallels with the aftermath of WWII. It was a surprisingly thought provoking read!
I think I've said this before in another episode of this podcast, but please do check out the gear arena in Kislev before you enter the final dungeon. You can play as other gears (even some boss gears) and try out their movesets. It's pretty sick.
Kinda hate how the game doesn’t let us know what happened to Yui, kinda felt that was missed opportunity
Well done guys! Just absolutely well done. I’ve throughly enjoyed your takes on the story and there are a lot of plot points that I had forgotten about. Your original retrospective some years back on this very game hooked me on the channel, and I’m glad you did this deep dive.
Xenogears was the first game I played that really set apart from the rest with such a deep story line. (FF Tactics is the other) and there weren’t many people that I knew who played it and actually enjoyed the experience.
Finally, it’s nice to know that Casen had a hard time finishing these games. I’m just like this, with the games. I just don’t want the thing to end.
Fantastic series and perfect ending to it. Hope you'll catch a little break now and just relax a bit after this gigantic task! Congrats!
Man if this podcast convinced me of one thing is that I definitely need to do a 2nd play through of Xenogears. I love this game so much and it hits different compared to most media I’ve experienced. That being said, I agree 100% with Mike with the final dungeon and I do not look forward to traversing it again.
It’s easily my least favorite final dungeon of all time and it’s the worst thing in the game🤣. I will say tho completing it to see the conclusion of the game is super worth it but yea make sure you use a guide when u get there otherwise you’re going lose your mind lol.
1:56:00 - The only way I see this working on a human level, is for the offender to 'die' as a symbol. To strip them of self-identity and to be 'reborn' anew without memory of what they had done previously. Something I don't think we can physically do for anyone. Death is often seen as the ultimate redemption in some stories.
Agreed about The Brothers Karamazov. Dialogue in that book is so good
What an incredible experience has been reliving this game with you guys. People that say that videogames are not art would be better to just play such an amazing game so they could understand how an interactive medium can make us connect more deeply with a history. Incredible job guys, thank you very mucho for working on this.
50:25 to be fair, Xenogears still needs fuel to run. I think that's what Citan was talking about.
Fuel in gears is energy from the zohar, not gasoline. Charging is requesting more energy from the zohar.
@@chrislennon460 Is that head Canon or legit?
@@Btotts the gears running off energy from the zohar is canon. The slave generator requests energy from the zohar according to perfect works. It wouldn't make much sense for you to "charge" gasoline would it?
@@chrislennon460 yeah, I guess that makes sense. Funny, I always knew the Zohar provided energy for the gears, but I never made the connection with fuel. This seems like an area where if you dig in too much, you'll pull out plot holes, so I'll just leave well enough alone.
What a ride!! Thank you for all your hard work!
The dedicated that went into this podcast 🙌
I swear you guys put what I've been saying about Krelian for years far more eloquently than I ever could.
Thanks and nicely done for this odyssey of a playthrough and surrounding deep discussions.
In regards to the “re-“ term you were trying to name in regards to people not wanting to accept an evil person simply being let off the hook, was it “retributive justice”? The idea that evil must be punished rather than forgiven and made all the more palatable if the punishment is seen as divinely mandated. It’s a concept that has influenced everything from religious beliefs to criminal justice systems. And I have to admit, after all this time Krelian escaping severe consequences and being characterized as a kind, loving person deep down doesn’t stick right with me after all these years, so I’m hardly exempt either.
Also, wasn’t the machinery shown in the last shot the remnants of kadmony and not Solaris? I don’t think it’s meant to specifically be meant to symbolize anything other than perhaps the oppressive systems of the past being left behind.
Mike, I respect your opinions, always appreciate your perspective. Regarding immortality and “apotheosis”, why would an infinite mind with the potential for instantaneous change be limited by a desire for conflict or the infliction of tedium?
If I were God, why would I suffer from boredom? I would be god…I don’t need to suffer from anything. Same deal goes for immortality, but almost doubly so. In an infinite amount of time, I’ll forget more than I could ever hope to remember at once. Every aeon would be a new journey of rediscovery.
Is conflict and friction always needed to make existence meaningful?
Just beat it tonight after years of trying
the zeboim era of xenogears I find incredibly fascinating, sad that it may never be fully fleshed out, along with the other parts
The post credit scene has an energy feather flying. The same color of Krelian angel wings. I think that wants to tell something like Krelian did came back in a long distant future as you see grass over Solaris… or something totally different… but i don’t this it’s meaningless
today we shake the heavens