Inconel. The “order”was part of the demo to show what the typical buyer might choose. The manifold design reviewed is not the same as in the demo or checkout and you can see the manufacturer on the box is also different. Prices for the reviewed manifold are in the “i8 swap” column of the cost breakdown.
@@CouchBuilt Ah okay just confused me slightly and the colors in the pictures for the price comparison also made my brain think it was different. That's so cool!
I think the technology and price has finally reached a point where it can be a game changer to the garage builder or smaller fabrication shop looking to level up their builds. Nothing to hide or gatekeep. I wish it was at this point when I was in the fabrication game 10-20 years ago.
@@CouchBuiltagreed and only going to get cheaper going forward. Also CAD packages for enthusiasts like F360 and Solidworks for Makers edition will allow people to get right into this space.
I hate it when people get "cute" about price info. They either don't understand that people have pretty tight budgets, or they think it's some sort of genius sales scheme, when it really just makes us assume it's crazy expensive, lol.
Amazing to see you explain all of your techniques as you go. Also giving a perfect insight into costs, metal 3D printing is a great tool for custom stuff like this. Thanks for you video
Im amazed that anyone had a complaint about this video. The amount of knowledge and realization of available tech to a normal guy like myself was amazing. Please make another video like this. Maybe turbine or compressor housing.
Glad you liked it. My skills have a ways to go, particularly on workflow. I’ve learned a ton on this project but amassed so much technical debt that after I committed to sending the print files out, I exported them all as STEP files to free up the design timeline. Let’s just say simple changes were orders of magnitude too long to process toward the end.
Came to say the same thing - I learnt a *ton* from just that section alone.. I struggled doing a similar modelling task (by struggled I mean I gave up and went back to beating round tube into square flanges like some kind of caveman), and now I know how easy it should have been..
As someone who made more 13b/20b manifolds than most for a very long time. I’ve been saying for years now if I ever were to start producing them again this is the way to do it. I’ve lost years on my life doing exactly that on my belt sander. 😂
Ive followed you on IG for a while now and have always loved seeing and been inspired by the projects you do. Randomly came across this video and recognised the manifold in the thumbnail, didnt know you made videos too haha. Loved seeing your Fusion workflow, Ive been using it for like 8 months now and still only really know the basics so it was nice to see exactly what tools I need to learn better to do this type of designs
Great video! The 15 minutes just flew by. I loved the other practical examples you gave so people could get an idea on what a larger volume print would cost, as well as what a smaller volume print like a merge collector would cost.
It is great that you shared so much information as lots of people myself included wouldnt have looked at going this way due to the thought it was out of reach for a home garage project.
Great video. I used 3D printing when I designed my upgraded replacement gearbox casing. If you have the skills to engineer and CAD your part, I think there are almost more reasons now to go that way than to buy an off the shelf part (especially if your platform isn’t as popular).
You can use sample tubes with restrictors into small chambers with o2 sensors that get vented into your main downpipe. It will allow you to get perfect O2 readings without a need for specialty pre turbo sensors and a custom control system. You may even be able to use the bank to bank fuel corrections in your ECU The 2 1/8 inch holes bypassing exhaust won’t reduce spool up in a noticeable way. The sample tubes will allow you to mount the sensors in a easily serviceable or accessible spot
3D metal printing has been around for a while, but being reserved for OEM's and unlimited budget, only if you were printing exotic metals like Titanium... however, I clicked the video because I had no clue 3D printing inconel was even possible, let alone accessible already :O
It has been reserved for tech startups with millions in capital backing. As he says, dont choose this option if there is an off the shelf option that you could make work, but I could see a lot of use cases for this in highly custom applications. If you have access to a CNC, ,you could build custom turbine and compressor housings and then post process/ cleanup the volutes to proper surface finish and clearances for well less than youd pay off the shelf. An aluminum GT355 compressor cover is over half the cost of a replacement.
@@mattnsacDoesn’t mean you should. Machining or now 3D printing a part is almosr always more expensive than buying something off the shelf due to quantities of scale pricing. Kind of nutty it’s a consideration…
@@icey_b1562 What Im saying is that there are SS turbine housings from Tial that cost a grand, you could print a V banded, SS housing to your specs so long as you could machine the interior dimensions to perfection and be within that price. For the compressor, you could make a custom anti surge housing or one with a specific outlet shape that would typically require welding for less than an off the shelf part. That still requires a CNC for the cleanup work. This stuff is definitely an option, especially in highly custom situations where budget isn't as much a consideration.
So a few recommendations. When drilling or tapping, I would rather use rigid taping to reduce mistakes or workmanship errors. When machining down the surface area, you should consider using a mill and measuring flatness. I saw when you placed the "finished" part on the flat surface, there was a lot of wobble and air gaps. It was off by well over 2 thousands. Simply recommendations since it appears you paid a tremendous amount for this part.
This part is printed. Fixturing this thing up to (g84) tap it would negate much of the cost savings advantage that he started with. The beautiful thing about a part designed for use with gaskets is it doesn't need to be flat to any "close" callout. That surface would probably be good at +/- .02", maybe .03 depending on what gasket he goes with. I guess really i don't see the point of giving the guy a hard time. You don't get flatness within .002 with printed parts yet. The threads are just fine chased. I was impressed that he went with threads at all, instead of sending the model with undersized pilot holes. It's a race car, not a space clock. Tell the guy he made a great video and thank him for teaching people about this tech.
Inconel 718 FTW. Nice service too and great partner for this project. Is the post printing heat treatment done by the company or not? Looking forward to more on this Fantastic build
that is a great tool to know about. I am also swapping a motor into a car it wasn't meant for and need an intake solution. I am not sure if printing a whole intake is the solution, but some of the parts will be much easier to have printed rather than fabricated from tubing alone.
I would argue your statement should be worded “may not”. If even pressure is applied you can get an impressively flat surface. If you’re wildly varying the angle of attack then you’ll end up with a banana. The purpose of this is to show the accessibility of a technology with post processing available to the average builder. Yes, milling would be more precise, but it’s not the only valid method. In a past life I built close to 1000 welded turbo manifolds with belt sanded flanges. Sealing was never a complaint. Wrench access to bolts was the usual gripe, but I’ll take that as an L with things I’ve learned over the years.
Came here to make a similar comment... especially with such a large part and small belt width and high belt speed. As long as he checks the flatness on a true flat surface, and uses dye removal to prove flatness, it can be done... but is time consuming.
Next video I’ll run a feeler gauge across this manifold and the intake manifold. That one was done the same way. Saying flat is like asking how long is a string. As long as an acceptable tolerance results, the method is moot.
It seems to be all about the details of how exactly it is done in my experience. The only conclusion I’ve reached is that results seem to vary wildly depending on the person who did it 😂
The price of the SS manifold puts getting something like this made within the realm of my budget. I use onshape for CAD but seeing how Fusion360 handled the 3D sketching makes me want to give it a shot again.
I'm glad I happened across this. I'm working on a project and I've already re-designed for metal printing and ordered the parts using this. Also, your collector reference for cost is misleading. The part is 3.5x2.5x3.3mm which is obviously too small for anything. I only noticed this because I spent about $50 on a stainless part that is 45mm diameter x 28mm high.
Good catch. I had to go back and look. Seems the stl from grabcad was scaled to inches and I assumed it was in mm like most sane people use 😅. That changes the price to $80. I didn’t think anything was amiss as I had reasonably similar size aluminum part that ran me $25.
One thing to keep in mind is that it’s an automated process and the prices shown are the lowest for a particular configuration. They might be through different vendors even though the material is the same. There might be limitations or ideal size thresholds for a particular manufacturers setup.
Thanks for sharing all of this, subscribed! I’m working on a custom NA rotary build myself, mating to the DQ250 instead of the 500. Any chance you can share where you got the models of your 13B and the models of the DQ500? Trying to plan out drive shafts, having trouble planning the path of the half shafts between the custom intake manifold and the custom exhaust manifold. Cheers, FCLC
The 13B model was by a guy on Instagram @mitchabbott_ I bought a STEP file from him and he also sells the STL. The DQ500 scan was from Domiworks. Neither were super cheap, but both were 100% worth the investment to ensure fitment before buying real parts.
My understanding from several GE presentantions of 3D metal printed parts for high temperaure application for gas turbines need extensive heat treatment and they encouter a high fall out rate. Hope this folks got the process figured out and the part can take the abuse. If I recall correctly the process of "melting" the metal creates internal stress that need to be annealed and relief via heat treatment.
I have an acquaintance thats been involved in some turbine secondary machine work for such applications. It’s not an apples to apples comparison as those are usually moving parts at higher temperatures, pretty extreme rpm, and lightened to the max. This is just a static hunk of metal that’s twice as thick as it probably should be. I don’t foresee any issues, but time will tell.
The problem, if you can call it that, is that "3D printing", or "additive manufacturing" is so diverse both in materials as in methods, that overall generic statements like that are meaningless. You can 3D print many different plastics, metals/alloys, some ceramics and even composites. The various methods use resistance heating, laser beam heating, electron beam heating (in vacuum) or electric arc heating. Some printing methods need debinding and sintering. Some are ready directly. Some benefit from a post heat treatment. You can print with powder, welding wire, filament, composite filament, concrete, 2-component materials and more... If this were Inconel with powder bed SLS printing (selective laser sintering) it could probably benefit from a post print heat treatment. If this was powder bed SLM (selective laser melting) it likely wouldn't need that. If this was made by binder jetting (metal powder printing with a wax-like binder) it would need debinding (removing the low melting binding agent) and sintering. Sintering will inherently stress-relief at the same time. So the short version is: It's complicated...
@@CouchBuilt If that's on a printer from EOS, it's German for _Direkt Metall Laser Schmelzen_ so SLM, selective laser melting. SLS is older tech, resulting in slightly more porous prints.
Very cool. FYI titanium is not well suited to exhausts at all, but 3d printing may help as webbing or extra wall thickness could be added in stressed areas. Inconel is choice though
I’m no advocate for titanium, but it is used by quite a few people. If they’re going to commit to that material choice, they at least have the option of adding 3D printing to the toolbox.
304 and 321 are the usual alloys for header fabrication with 321 having better heat properties. 316 is comparable to 304 in heat resistance, but is more corrosion resistant.
In heat applications an L grade stainless, 308L or 316L is a better choice than straight 308/316. The difference is the L grades have a lower (0.03%) carbon content which reduces susceptibility to sensitization at temps over about 1200f. The carbon precipitates to the grain boundaries and forms chromium carbides resulting in higher potential for intergranular corrosion. Long enough exposure can lead to formation of sigma phase in the microstructure, which is an embrittling phase. Lower carbon prevents this from happening. Types 321 & 347 prevent this by adding either titanium or niobium respectively which ties up the carbon as titanium or niobium carbide, thus blocking the formation of the bad actors in the alloys. The molybdenum in 316L adds a slight amount of strength and prevents chloride corrosion.
Where can one learn to use Fusion 360 like you do? I have designed some very basic brackets and other things but this is next level and I want to get there.
To make all this work with the factory hybrid components. I need to emulate a bunch of digital and analog signals that will be generated by my own hardware. I’m sure the scope will get some air time when I cover that stuff.
ok so remember 3d print metal has 1% to 5% shrinkage. you always have to remember too add 1% or 2% size when at the model stage. think about it, the 3dprint metal has to be fired and so looses a few %. good video.
great video, instant subscribe. really cool project and a lot of overlapping skills with a Honda CRZ swap i'm working on. are you an engineer by trade?
Super cool to know those tools!!! thanks!!! is it fusion 360? and how did you scan the engine and motorbay? or is it in a library? realy good chanel i love it cheers from France!!
The scans were done with a Shining 3D Einstar. I’ll probably show a little more on that in a future video. I have to make some exhaust stuff for someones E32 BMW that’s lurking in the background.
They don’t need to be, especially on a turbo application where there’s positive pressure in the exhaust. You’re not relying on the scavenging effect for cylinder evacuation. I’ll always prioritize a shorter runner and better packaging over equal length. If you’re in a limited race series and shooting for absolute maximum power, or tuning the lengths to achieve a particular sound, then by all means the effort for equal length can matter
No, they are modeled at the correct size in the STL. It’s not possible to print them cleanly enough to be 100% accurate. This just saves the pain of cutting full depth inconel.
finally, we can put an end to the typical internet forum malarkey between various vendors merchandising saps and what some of is have been saying for years …
Restating it, not temperature sufficient as a header or turbo manifold. I had Ti fail at the rear due to stress. The full T321 system I built had T321 18 Ga going to 20 Ga on the header, and the 18 Ga. up close to the engine eventually suffered from heat fatigue cracking. The full 3” 20 Ga. T321 system out the back still lives to this day from being built in 2009. Back then Ti was not as readily available and cost more. I’d still advocate 20 Ga. T321 over Ti. The long term strength is much greater than the slight difference in weight.
Odd question…what are your computer specs if ya don’t mind? My software lags when I try to rotate the part with the stl open like you have with part of the chassis. Quite annoying.
It’s a 2021 Asus G14 with 40gb RAM. It only performs like this when plugged in. I’d like to upgrade, but next real notable step up always specs out at like a $5k workstation, which I can’t justify. I need to buy a DQ500 DSG instead 😂
I clearly show what the i8 manifold cost in inconel. The whole point of the demo was to show that 316 is within the average budget. My manifold is inconel from KleRo in Germany.
@@CouchBuiltdid you need the extra heat or strength from inconel? What made it worth the extra cost to you? NA manifolds I could see going with stainless all day
@MPbdy I originally planned to use stainless and I wouldn’t hesitate to do so. Inconel is simple a better material and when I saw the price, it wasn’t an outrageous jump. The amount that I saved with the motor I bought also played a part in going this route.
Could you PLEASE use EYE PROTECTION when TAPPING????? I have 2 customers with 1 eye left. 1 lost eye due to tapping . The other one lost an eye by lightly hitting a dowel pin back in place. PLEASE WEAR EYE PROTECTION!!!!!!
Considering the general rule of thumb for a cylinder head is .001” allowable per cylinder with the expectation to seal 1000+psi of combustion pressure from coolant and oil passages, the .0015” that this measures will be just fine for even a godawful 3-4:1 back pressure ratio maxing out the MAP sensor.
Wait I'm confused. Didn't you order SS not Inconel? Either way, this is awesome. Cool project and I subbed.
Inconel. The “order”was part of the demo to show what the typical buyer might choose. The manifold design reviewed is not the same as in the demo or checkout and you can see the manufacturer on the box is also different. Prices for the reviewed manifold are in the “i8 swap” column of the cost breakdown.
@@CouchBuilt Ah okay just confused me slightly and the colors in the pictures for the price comparison also made my brain think it was different. That's so cool!
Likewise. Way impressive and some knowledge 'bout 3D printing is mega appreciated ❣
Thanks for posting actual prices and finished product quality. No one ever gives us that level of detail.
I think the technology and price has finally reached a point where it can be a game changer to the garage builder or smaller fabrication shop looking to level up their builds. Nothing to hide or gatekeep. I wish it was at this point when I was in the fabrication game 10-20 years ago.
@@CouchBuiltagreed and only going to get cheaper going forward. Also CAD packages for enthusiasts like F360 and Solidworks for Makers edition will allow people to get right into this space.
I hate it when people get "cute" about price info. They either don't understand that people have pretty tight budgets, or they think it's some sort of genius sales scheme, when it really just makes us assume it's crazy expensive, lol.
We are in an absolutely wild time for customization and home manufacturing. I'm amazed how attainable this sort of thing is now.
Amazing to see you explain all of your techniques as you go. Also giving a perfect insight into costs, metal 3D printing is a great tool for custom stuff like this. Thanks for you video
Not just a great tool but with some time refining your design it looks affordable and fast too!
Im amazed that anyone had a complaint about this video. The amount of knowledge and realization of available tech to a normal guy like myself was amazing. Please make another video like this. Maybe turbine or compressor housing.
Damn your fusion skills are awesome. Great how you explain how you built it.
Glad you liked it. My skills have a ways to go, particularly on workflow. I’ve learned a ton on this project but amassed so much technical debt that after I committed to sending the print files out, I exported them all as STEP files to free up the design timeline. Let’s just say simple changes were orders of magnitude too long to process toward the end.
Came to say the same thing - I learnt a *ton* from just that section alone.. I struggled doing a similar modelling task (by struggled I mean I gave up and went back to beating round tube into square flanges like some kind of caveman), and now I know how easy it should have been..
I’m not kidding when I say you have one of the most interesting channels on UA-cam right now. Looking forward to seeing your channel blow up.
As someone who made more 13b/20b manifolds than most for a very long time. I’ve been saying for years now if I ever were to start producing them again this is the way to do it. I’ve lost years on my life doing exactly that on my belt sander. 😂
Gotta love this new tech.
That merge cost is mind blowing. Love it. Def gonna keep it in mind for a 3rotor build
Not quite new tech, but newly affordable Id say.
Ive followed you on IG for a while now and have always loved seeing and been inspired by the projects you do. Randomly came across this video and recognised the manifold in the thumbnail, didnt know you made videos too haha. Loved seeing your Fusion workflow, Ive been using it for like 8 months now and still only really know the basics so it was nice to see exactly what tools I need to learn better to do this type of designs
Great video! The 15 minutes just flew by. I loved the other practical examples you gave so people could get an idea on what a larger volume print would cost, as well as what a smaller volume print like a merge collector would cost.
This was great stuff. I’d love to watch more of your Fusion 360 work.
If you keep posting, this is going to be a fantastic channel. Keep it up!
Great content and detail on the process. Feels very attainable for most hobbyists. Now I just need one more project car 👍
It is great that you shared so much information as lots of people myself included wouldnt have looked at going this way due to the thought it was out of reach for a home garage project.
Great video. I used 3D printing when I designed my upgraded replacement gearbox casing. If you have the skills to engineer and CAD your part, I think there are almost more reasons now to go that way than to buy an off the shelf part (especially if your platform isn’t as popular).
You can use sample tubes with restrictors into small chambers with o2 sensors that get vented into your main downpipe. It will allow you to get perfect O2 readings without a need for specialty pre turbo sensors and a custom control system. You may even be able to use the bank to bank fuel corrections in your ECU
The 2 1/8 inch holes bypassing exhaust won’t reduce spool up in a noticeable way.
The sample tubes will allow you to mount the sensors in a easily serviceable or accessible spot
What a great video. Ive been trying to figure out how to convince a client he needs a printed manifold. This has all the answers!
Really (really!) well eplained & documented. You R the "3D Printed Whisperer" Definetely SUB worthy.
Very cool, like any new tecnology it will be interesting to see how they hold up to the stress of a running engine over a long period of time.
This was so helpful! Thank you!
WOW, a whole new meaning to custom made, now I need to learn CAD :O
Bravo! The design and finish are fantastic. Thank you for making this video!
Man awesome video, funny I just 3d scanned my e30 engine bay for the first time for some work just like this so this is invaluable!
3D metal printing has been around for a while, but being reserved for OEM's and unlimited budget, only if you were printing exotic metals like Titanium... however, I clicked the video because I had no clue 3D printing inconel was even possible, let alone accessible already :O
This was a perfect video. I’ll be looking into using this process for my external wastegate, vband exhaust manifold for my 13b 240sx
Crazy a home gamer can do this now. Seems like something that has been reserved for rocket engines at tech startups and major corporations.
It has been reserved for tech startups with millions in capital backing. As he says, dont choose this option if there is an off the shelf option that you could make work, but I could see a lot of use cases for this in highly custom applications. If you have access to a CNC, ,you could build custom turbine and compressor housings and then post process/ cleanup the volutes to proper surface finish and clearances for well less than youd pay off the shelf. An aluminum GT355 compressor cover is over half the cost of a replacement.
@@mattnsacDoesn’t mean you should. Machining or now 3D printing a part is almosr always more expensive than buying something off the shelf due to quantities of scale pricing. Kind of nutty it’s a consideration…
@@icey_b1562 What Im saying is that there are SS turbine housings from Tial that cost a grand, you could print a V banded, SS housing to your specs so long as you could machine the interior dimensions to perfection and be within that price. For the compressor, you could make a custom anti surge housing or one with a specific outlet shape that would typically require welding for less than an off the shelf part. That still requires a CNC for the cleanup work. This stuff is definitely an option, especially in highly custom situations where budget isn't as much a consideration.
Great video very informative and interesting. Keep up the good work 👍👍👍
So a few recommendations. When drilling or tapping, I would rather use rigid taping to reduce mistakes or workmanship errors. When machining down the surface area, you should consider using a mill and measuring flatness. I saw when you placed the "finished" part on the flat surface, there was a lot of wobble and air gaps. It was off by well over 2 thousands. Simply recommendations since it appears you paid a tremendous amount for this part.
Good insights, but bold of you to assume my bench is flat. There’s no gap with a straight edge.
@@CouchBuilt also bold of you to think a belt sander can give you a flat surface
This part is printed. Fixturing this thing up to (g84) tap it would negate much of the cost savings advantage that he started with. The beautiful thing about a part designed for use with gaskets is it doesn't need to be flat to any "close" callout. That surface would probably be good at +/- .02", maybe .03 depending on what gasket he goes with.
I guess really i don't see the point of giving the guy a hard time. You don't get flatness within .002 with printed parts yet. The threads are just fine chased. I was impressed that he went with threads at all, instead of sending the model with undersized pilot holes. It's a race car, not a space clock.
Tell the guy he made a great video and thank him for teaching people about this tech.
Inconel 718 FTW. Nice service too and great partner for this project.
Is the post printing heat treatment done by the company or not?
Looking forward to more on this Fantastic build
13B-REW Swapped BMW!? 🔥🤘
that is a great tool to know about. I am also swapping a motor into a car it wasn't meant for and need an intake solution. I am not sure if printing a whole intake is the solution, but some of the parts will be much easier to have printed rather than fabricated from tubing alone.
Don't even want to imagine how expensive this would be for my VR6. It's cool that you can do this and hopefully the prices come down in a few years.
In stainless probably around $1600-1800. In inconel, $6-8k
Impressive work and beautiful result.
just a suggestion...a belt sander will not result in a flat surface and it may leak. I would suggest mounting it in a mill and fly cut it.
I would argue your statement should be worded “may not”. If even pressure is applied you can get an impressively flat surface. If you’re wildly varying the angle of attack then you’ll end up with a banana. The purpose of this is to show the accessibility of a technology with post processing available to the average builder. Yes, milling would be more precise, but it’s not the only valid method. In a past life I built close to 1000 welded turbo manifolds with belt sanded flanges. Sealing was never a complaint. Wrench access to bolts was the usual gripe, but I’ll take that as an L with things I’ve learned over the years.
Came here to make a similar comment... especially with such a large part and small belt width and high belt speed. As long as he checks the flatness on a true flat surface, and uses dye removal to prove flatness, it can be done... but is time consuming.
Next video I’ll run a feeler gauge across this manifold and the intake manifold. That one was done the same way. Saying flat is like asking how long is a string. As long as an acceptable tolerance results, the method is moot.
It seems to be all about the details of how exactly it is done in my experience. The only conclusion I’ve reached is that results seem to vary wildly depending on the person who did it 😂
110%
Thanks so much for sharing this . Great detail and end results.
The price of the SS manifold puts getting something like this made within the realm of my budget. I use onshape for CAD but seeing how Fusion360 handled the 3D sketching makes me want to give it a shot again.
Cool material 👍👍👍👍👍
I'm glad I happened across this. I'm working on a project and I've already re-designed for metal printing and ordered the parts using this. Also, your collector reference for cost is misleading. The part is 3.5x2.5x3.3mm which is obviously too small for anything. I only noticed this because I spent about $50 on a stainless part that is 45mm diameter x 28mm high.
Good catch. I had to go back and look. Seems the stl from grabcad was scaled to inches and I assumed it was in mm like most sane people use 😅. That changes the price to $80. I didn’t think anything was amiss as I had reasonably similar size aluminum part that ran me $25.
10:10 There are some surprising numbers. Like you save over 11% on the Titanium 2mm lightened manifold and less than 5% with the inconel one.
One thing to keep in mind is that it’s an automated process and the prices shown are the lowest for a particular configuration. They might be through different vendors even though the material is the same. There might be limitations or ideal size thresholds for a particular manufacturers setup.
Thanks for sharing all of this, subscribed!
I’m working on a custom NA rotary build myself, mating to the DQ250 instead of the 500.
Any chance you can share where you got the models of your 13B and the models of the DQ500? Trying to plan out drive shafts, having trouble planning the path of the half shafts between the custom intake manifold and the custom exhaust manifold.
Cheers,
FCLC
The 13B model was by a guy on Instagram @mitchabbott_ I bought a STEP file from him and he also sells the STL. The DQ500 scan was from Domiworks. Neither were super cheap, but both were 100% worth the investment to ensure fitment before buying real parts.
17:40 Great Tip!!!
Snap this is cool af man!
Love watching your content! I also am planning an unconventional swap for my car!
Awesome! Thank you!
Wow this is insane such a good video
My understanding from several GE presentantions of 3D metal printed parts for high temperaure application for gas turbines need extensive heat treatment and they encouter a high fall out rate. Hope this folks got the process figured out and the part can take the abuse. If I recall correctly the process of "melting" the metal creates internal stress that need to be annealed and relief via heat treatment.
I have an acquaintance thats been involved in some turbine secondary machine work for such applications. It’s not an apples to apples comparison as those are usually moving parts at higher temperatures, pretty extreme rpm, and lightened to the max. This is just a static hunk of metal that’s twice as thick as it probably should be. I don’t foresee any issues, but time will tell.
@@CouchBuilt I will be watching for sure.
The problem, if you can call it that, is that "3D printing", or "additive manufacturing" is so diverse both in materials as in methods, that overall generic statements like that are meaningless.
You can 3D print many different plastics, metals/alloys, some ceramics and even composites. The various methods use resistance heating, laser beam heating, electron beam heating (in vacuum) or electric arc heating. Some printing methods need debinding and sintering. Some are ready directly. Some benefit from a post heat treatment. You can print with powder, welding wire, filament, composite filament, concrete, 2-component materials and more...
If this were Inconel with powder bed SLS printing (selective laser sintering) it could probably benefit from a post print heat treatment. If this was powder bed SLM (selective laser melting) it likely wouldn't need that. If this was made by binder jetting (metal powder printing with a wax-like binder) it would need debinding (removing the low melting binding agent) and sintering. Sintering will inherently stress-relief at the same time.
So the short version is: It's complicated...
In this case it was DMLS.
@@CouchBuilt If that's on a printer from EOS, it's German for _Direkt Metall Laser Schmelzen_ so SLM, selective laser melting. SLS is older tech, resulting in slightly more porous prints.
Really great video and super neat project. Subscribed!
Excellent video!!! Thank you
I think I've heard of a channel that might want to consider 3D printing a 12to1 collector... :D
Awesome stuff. You deserve a sub😎
Awesome video, thanks for the tutorial 👍
First! Love seeing progress!
Very cool. FYI titanium is not well suited to exhausts at all, but 3d printing may help as webbing or extra wall thickness could be added in stressed areas. Inconel is choice though
I’m no advocate for titanium, but it is used by quite a few people. If they’re going to commit to that material choice, they at least have the option of adding 3D printing to the toolbox.
Definitely going to melt those fancy new sensor's 😂
We’ll see. EGT is ahead of the sensor. I can easily put a safety in the ecu for EGT to keep it within rated operating temp.
I know
Nelson Racing engines used 308 SS for their turbo headers. 316 is mostly used for sanitary application like food processing or medical devices.
304 and 321 are the usual alloys for header fabrication with 321 having better heat properties. 316 is comparable to 304 in heat resistance, but is more corrosion resistant.
In heat applications an L grade stainless, 308L or 316L is a better choice than straight 308/316. The difference is the L grades have a lower (0.03%) carbon content which reduces susceptibility to sensitization at temps over about 1200f. The carbon precipitates to the grain boundaries and forms chromium carbides resulting in higher potential for intergranular corrosion. Long enough exposure can lead to formation of sigma phase in the microstructure, which is an embrittling phase. Lower carbon prevents this from happening. Types 321 & 347 prevent this by adding either titanium or niobium respectively which ties up the carbon as titanium or niobium carbide, thus blocking the formation of the bad actors in the alloys. The molybdenum in 316L adds a slight amount of strength and prevents chloride corrosion.
@jeffreywhitmoyer860 good info. Should be noted that the stainless materials in the quotes are indeed 316L for anyone who missed it.
Perfect video
this was cool af
Where can one learn to use Fusion 360 like you do?
I have designed some very basic brackets and other things but this is next level and I want to get there.
Would be neat for something like an inconel manifold made for an ST205 wrc edition
how long have you been designing on fusion 360 and how did you get into it? did you design the entire turbo and engine in 360 too?
I see you have a Micsig. It would be interesting to see how you use it as an automotive scope
To make all this work with the factory hybrid components. I need to emulate a bunch of digital and analog signals that will be generated by my own hardware. I’m sure the scope will get some air time when I cover that stuff.
How much housing distortion will affect Rotor Tip Seals, with the extended offset of Turbo?
Add a Support Bracket?
Old Skool thinker😊
Probably not much. Still 10lbs lighter than stock twins from all the figures Ive seen.
Great video, subbed.
ok so remember 3d print metal has 1% to 5% shrinkage. you always have to remember too add 1% or 2% size when at the model stage. think about it, the 3dprint metal has to be fired and so looses a few %. good video.
you are a legend!!!!
Great job!
this is insane
this is sweet!
great video, instant subscribe. really cool project and a lot of overlapping skills with a Honda CRZ swap i'm working on. are you an engineer by trade?
I wish I had seen this earlier.
Super cool to know those tools!!! thanks!!! is it fusion 360? and how did you scan the engine and motorbay? or is it in a library? realy good chanel i love it cheers from France!!
The scans were done with a Shining 3D Einstar. I’ll probably show a little more on that in a future video. I have to make some exhaust stuff for someones E32 BMW that’s lurking in the background.
Should't the runners be equal length?
They don’t need to be, especially on a turbo application where there’s positive pressure in the exhaust. You’re not relying on the scavenging effect for cylinder evacuation. I’ll always prioritize a shorter runner and better packaging over equal length. If you’re in a limited race series and shooting for absolute maximum power, or tuning the lengths to achieve a particular sound, then by all means the effort for equal length can matter
except a 2-rotor has perfect 180° exhaust pulses and will show a difference between balanced equal vs unbalanced unequal length when possible.
You need a bigger tap handle. Ebay a starrett 91 D
Would you normally print threads or just overfill then tap?
Edit. I see you did overfill them a bit
No, they are modeled at the correct size in the STL. It’s not possible to print them cleanly enough to be 100% accurate. This just saves the pain of cutting full depth inconel.
@@CouchBuilt Nice work. Subbed :)
Hi from New Zealand
Amazing
finally, we can put an end to the typical internet forum malarkey between various vendors merchandising saps and what some of is have been saying for years …
and Ti is not sufficient for a 13B or even most piston turbo applications, T321 or T347 would be much better if available.
Agreed. I’m not an advocate for titanium but some folks commonly use it, so included as a reference.
Restating it, not temperature sufficient as a header or turbo manifold. I had Ti fail at the rear due to stress. The full T321 system I built had T321 18 Ga going to 20 Ga on the header, and the 18 Ga. up close to the engine eventually suffered from heat fatigue cracking. The full 3” 20 Ga. T321 system out the back still lives to this day from being built in 2009. Back then Ti was not as readily available and cost more. I’d still advocate 20 Ga. T321 over Ti. The long term strength is much greater than the slight difference in weight.
how did you get a 3d model of the engine compartment?
With an Einstar 3D scanner
Odd question…what are your computer specs if ya don’t mind? My software lags when I try to rotate the part with the stl open like you have with part of the chassis. Quite annoying.
It’s a 2021 Asus G14 with 40gb RAM. It only performs like this when plugged in. I’d like to upgrade, but next real notable step up always specs out at like a $5k workstation, which I can’t justify. I need to buy a DQ500 DSG instead 😂
My nerd senses have been satisfied
Just wait until I get into the hybrid integration hell.
Do it could be possible to put an order with a 3d model with 1mm wall ?
I believe .5mm was generic minimum recommended wall thickness for a DMLS metal print, so that should be doable.
@@CouchBuilt thanks for the info :)
TLDR what was the cost?
It would be crazy if in the first minute or two someone told you where to skip to for the costs.
@@CouchBuilt Make it the first 10 seconds and we got a deal
Why not just use an Artec manifold?
Because this is going in a BMW i8….
@RobDahm Have you seen this?
Am I silly? It looks like the flange is not flat
The bench is not flat. The flange is .0015” flat. Covered in my next video.
nice set up but a bit misleading saying printing in inconel then go with 316...
I clearly show what the i8 manifold cost in inconel. The whole point of the demo was to show that 316 is within the average budget. My manifold is inconel from KleRo in Germany.
@@CouchBuiltdid you need the extra heat or strength from inconel? What made it worth the extra cost to you? NA manifolds I could see going with stainless all day
@MPbdy I originally planned to use stainless and I wouldn’t hesitate to do so. Inconel is simple a better material and when I saw the price, it wasn’t an outrageous jump. The amount that I saved with the motor I bought also played a part in going this route.
у метчика рабочая кромка завалена(
Could you PLEASE use EYE PROTECTION when TAPPING?????
I have 2 customers with 1 eye left. 1 lost eye due to tapping . The other one lost an eye by lightly hitting a dowel pin back in place.
PLEASE WEAR EYE PROTECTION!!!!!!
What what.. 13b rotary bmw i8…
Indeed. I explain a bit more about that in episode 1.
"have been sanded flat..." your definition of the word flat is highly questionable.
What tolerance do you consider flat for a manifold sealing flange?
@@CouchBuilt +/1 1 thou 0.025 micron. unless your boosting only 5 psi in that case, your sanding will do.
Considering the general rule of thumb for a cylinder head is .001” allowable per cylinder with the expectation to seal 1000+psi of combustion pressure from coolant and oil passages, the .0015” that this measures will be just fine for even a godawful 3-4:1 back pressure ratio maxing out the MAP sensor.
Man the prices are not too bad..
@RobDahm