Scooby-Doo! and the Art of Old Americana | Fandom Divided
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- Опубліковано 13 чер 2024
- Woke soyboys, rise up so we can discuss the warm and cozy feel of Americana, as well as the more questionably aged Americana, and the modern divided fandom who enjoy the franchise from '69 to '23 in what's sure to be the most controversial video on the channel to date!
The funsies tumblr post: www.tumblr.com/black-throat/1...
Segment selection
00:00 - Intro
01:20 - Historical Old Americana
05:36 - Confederacy and Beyond
10:03 - Zombie Island & Witch's Ghost
13:26 - Where everyone gets mad
16:11 - Scooby & Modern Divided Fandom
22:00 - It's a wrap - Фільми й анімація
Personally, the sense of Americana just fits so well with Scooby. They're a gang of American teenagers driving around the country, which most often happens to be the US with many forms of culture to explore. Though for Zombie Island specifically, I think the point was more to show that the soldiers were human too and victims of the horrifying creatures as much as anyone else.
The spirit of Americana definitely fits in the coziest when they have that emphasis on traveling the country and seeing the different aspects and people around, or really hinge the episode around something entirely American in feel, which Night of Fright does a good job at capturing
Well said.
You said exactly what was on my mind. 👍🏼
This is how more fans should talk about the things they love. Acknowledge and discussing the flaws with the things they love, not to "cancel" it or leave it behind, but so people learn about the real life content that the show is discussing.
I would do this for Battlestar Galactica and point out the flaws at conventions.
Anytime ‘Old America’ is mentioned, I’m reminded of Christina Ricci as Wednesday Addams calling out the BS in front of all the parents.
As a non-American, the obsession scooby animators seemed to have with the civil war went totally over my head, but I completely agree with you that it does evoke a strangely bucolic feeling. It’s even odder to consider that a lot of the original intended audience (5-10 year old kids) likely wouldn’t have known much about the war, yet were still able to get the vibe the imagery was intended to illicit. Maybe it has to do with the fact that most old and “haunted” houses in the US during the 60s were Victorian and Edwardian, and so architecture from that era just naturally fit in well with a show about ghosts?
It very much feels like it's set dressing, as with whenever the gang visit any other country and use the culture for set dressing, and with the creative team being so good at doing that, I believe the intent of the imagery and feel is just so strong that it perfectly creates the exact intent, even without context. If leaving some a little lost here and there, haha. And clearly, the more modern thoughts on the imagery seeming bizarre weren't at all considered. It all comes down to what makes the spookiest haunted house at the end of the day.
@@Scoobytopia I completely agree. As an Italian, it brings to mind that episode of What’s new when the gang goes to Naples. The show’s depiction of Italy and Italians is so far removed from reality that it almost feels like parody, yet i somehow still find the vibe perfect for a episode of a kids show where a bunch of Americans are trying to catch the ghost of a gladiator. It somehow works. I do find it bizarre tho that people can get so offended by merely pointing out that the portrayal of people and cultures in scooby Doo has often bordered on being offensive. It doesn’t mean that we should be burning scooby Doo dvd’s, just keeping in mind that you shouldn’t interpret scrappy wearing a feathered headdress as an appropriate representation of Native American culture. And in my own cultures case, that there was never a Roman emperor named Caesar Saladitus, despite what Scooby Doo tells you lmao
Exactly haha. I love poking fun at how the series has depicted American culture, as well as others, but there always seems to be that knee-jerk reaction to assume I'm condemning it. My video on the Monster of Mexico movie had the same reaction to the point that I had to leave a pinned comment because people weren't even watching the video and just assuming I was upset. Examining the use of culture and having fun with it should be fun and not automatically be so controversial! 😅
It's just because houses that were built 100+ years before the 1960s were actually built around the time of the Civil War. Big, ancient mansion is your standard atmospheric setting for horror and unlike in Europe (for example), "ancient" buildings for us are around the 100-200 range.
As a brazillian person that had no previous context or the slightest piece of knowledge about this matter, it was somewhat confusing to me as a child, i simply accepted that i didn't understand it and moved on. Watching this video as a grown-up it explains some plotholes i've always wondered about. Great video as always keep it up :))
Saaaaame
Três, mas no meu caso eu realmente nunca me importei.
Personally, I don't think the portrayal of Confederate soldiers in Zombie Island was done poorly. They just didn't happen to be the real villains, because them being the true antagonists of the story wouldn't have been the complete subversion of the Scooby-Doo formula that the cat people were.
I don't think the soldiers in ZI or anything in Witch's Ghost are necessarily done poorly in their inclusion, it's just an interesting final evolution to the puzzle in seeing this how this aesthetic was integrated before inclusions would come down to less notable/causal monster of the week set dressing starting in the 2000s with What's New or now Guess Who whenever the era is referenced again.
Another 'recent' example of the Civil War referenced in Scooby Doo would be the "What's New Scooby Doo" episode "Big Scare in the Big Easy" (2002) - the Leland brothers hated eachother so much they took opposite sides during the war, one was a Confederate, the other was Union, and they shot each other in the family cemetery (where they died, were buried, and where the main conflict of the episode happens in New Orleans). One of the suspects is seen actually carrying a confederate uniform - a family heirloom - which he was secretly selling to help pay the bills (which implies either that the Confederate Leland brother was buried without it, or he wasn't the only family member to join in).
It always seemed to me that the Civil War references the gang faced were more telling of the areas they wound up in - places in America where those are the most 'recent' ghosts, old, falling apart, and certainly not tourist friendly (also so many of the 'mansions' they visited really look like plantation homes of the antebellum era) where the war depopulated or destroyed the local economy in a way nobody could fix, hence all the old mining ghost towns and abandoned manors with old fussy rich names stuck to them.
There's also the Guess Who episode with Abe Lincoln (and Funky Phantom!) in even more recent times! They're interesting because of just how different they are, moreso being monster of the week inclusions rather than having Civil War characters and settings as the default aesthetic like up to Zombie Island. And the inclusions up until then are very much the set dressing of that aesthetic, the same as when we see other countries when the gang travels, which is why the Americana works as well as it does when it hits right. It's the effect of finding that perfect spooky house or setting.
For the Civil War, it's important to remember that most soldiers in the Confederate army had no investment in slavery, they were simply trying to keep the Union army from attacking their home towns and family homes, which happened quite a lot as it always does in war.
Even many in the North recognized this and most moderates didn't want to vilify the former Confederates.
Unfortunately, the misguided assassination of Lincoln, leader of those moderates, led to a bunch of vengeful warhawks gaining full authority on what to do with the post-war south.
Part of the treaty that reunified the states even required that war heroes from both sides be recognized specifically to avoid the "good guys vs bad guys mindset.
Thank you for mentioning this! It's such an important thing to point out, but very few ever do.
If they really wanted to protect their homes, they should have refused to take orders from a fraudulent confederate government. You said it yourself, many in the union wanted a peaceful resolution. If the confederate soldiers refused to fight, there would be no war. Many in the Union were even willing to offer a compromise on slavery that would have preserved it in the south but just banned it from being implemented in new states. Jefferson Davis was an idiot who thought he could take on an industrialized power, and confederate soldiers were fools to follow him.
Just a memory from childhood as a black person, the first time I saw a Confederate soldier in Scooby Doo I actually got scared because of the horrific stories passed down in my family. I was also very nervous whenever they mentioned the South/plantations and what not. Am I super bothered by the depictions now? No. But it's interesting to look back on now with my larger pool of knowledge and seeing how prominent the topic was throughout the series.
What i found interesting in the Zombie Island movie with the ghost and zombies is that it subvert your expectations, since the first thing one would thought after seeing a confederate ghost or a pirate zombie is that they are the bad guys responsable for the deaths in the island, but the twist being that they are actually the victims of Lena and Simone (though Moonscar was responsible to a certain extent) and that they just whant to warn poeple to leave the island, they killed people indiscriminately for years regardless if they were innocent or not, you can even see between their victims mobsters and tourists, on top of that the souls of their victims are cursed to remain traped in the island as a destiny worst that death, nobody deserves that, not even a confederate general.
It's part of what makes that reveal work so well and hold up! One of the most solid twists in the franchise in an already solid film deserving of the reputation.
Your discussion videos are very much appreciated. It's so hard to find people who don't dismiss the more questionable aspects of the franchise for the sake of preserving their childhood. The concept of things being a product of their times is definitely an important discussion point because the attitudes displayed or implied still affect viewers today and society in general. The blatant positive display of Confederate characters, amongst other things, definitely have made me uncomfortable.
Also, I can't believe I never realized that they incorporated minor key versions of "Clementine" and "Oh! Susanna" into the score.
The use of much of the imagery was basically set dressing, rather than intending anything negative, much like the use of other cultures as set dressing, and is very much a product of its time as you said. It's clearly been successful in using it as such, perfectly evoking that scary haunted house feel it was going for. The use of folk songs in the musical compositions being easy to miss goes to show how effortless it was for them to suggest that almost subliminally. Even though it wasn't intended that way, some of the imagery can come off as uncomfortable in the time since, yet it's much better to actually look at why it was that way, and have fun discussing it rather than condemning and erasing, especially when it can be so fascinating to look at why that imagery might have been used when going forward.
@@Scoobytopia 19:41 to 21:59, You actually make good points about all of that
As a non-American this video is deeply interesting since I have like a bit of distance, the reference went I’ve over my head as little kid. But know looking back at the civil war references is interesting becuase it really is time capsule to me
as someone from uk
alot of ameicana stuff in SD went over my head and just a that look neat kind of feel
4:00: Well, unfortunately inbreeding by breeders of pure breed dogs in order to "maintain" that specific look is a thing, so Scooby being a pure breed great Dane means that he is probably the result of incest of some kind.
I mean, when designing him, they quite literally made sure to give him the exact visual characteristics a Great Dane wouldn't have to make him look more distinct, which certainly suggests him not being quite so pure haha
the civil war is a part of our history and it was a part of the south. they weren't there as if the scooby team was saying "these people were great." they were there because they were a part of the history and culture of the area of the setting in which their show took place. thats all that has to be said about that. and also when these were made people could see something and know right from wrong instead of get offended.
Snooze
@@Scoobytopia reality is boring yes I know.
@devernepersonal3636 good thing nobody in the comments has been complaining about it to complain about anyway
As a Scooby-Doo fan since the age of eight, I love this channel! I think I'm older than most of your viewers, though. I'm going to be 57 in July. I'm sorry that people have been picking on you, but I'm glad you persevere . Keep doing what you're doing!
Your voice is so comforting and it's so comfortable to have you play in the background.
Why can’t we just all accept the fact that some people are attracted to people of the same gender and move along with our live
Edit:Also so sorry you had to go through that man. Just know you still have supporters
I love your videos, they tide me over well I wait for a new Scooby Doo movie to obsesse about or a new Scooby Doo show to binge watch 😢 why must it take so long
Yeah, I never really fully understood why Hanna-Barbera seemed to have a habit of adding the elements of old world America to the atmosphere of the Scooby Doo franchise.
Another possibility with Shaggy's Uncle Colonel Beauregard is that 'Colonel' could have actually been his real name and he was just an eccentric Civil War fanatic (I had a great uncle who's name was 'General')
15:55 WHAT?! The Proud Family was review bombed that badly?! Who would do such a thing, like Scooby-Doo, that show was my childhood and I am so glad that it’s back today!
Im not american so i never really cared about these things in the shows/ movies as a kid, to me it was just all made up to the plot of the mystery. But as i grew up and dived deeper into the Scooby lore and learned more about the story of my and other countries it does make the Scooby-Doo franchise look richer in retrospective
At times, it often feels more like set dressing indeed, just as well as when they would ever visit other countries, so it's interesting to see how the Americana is used for that setting just as much
Another example of those weird things the franchise over time was how they originally made the one hex girl a person of colour, whitewashed her breifly during like whats new era, and then made her a person of colour again (im not really sure of her race, but it was weird that they just straight up turned her white breifly)
Her voice actress is a person of color herself, so it's most likely she was also meant to be and makes sense why they reverted the last few appearances, but also makes it weird that they made her so pale in between.
@@Scoobytopia yeah it was just strange that they made her white for that short period of time
well she was fairly light in the original too. like she just had a slight tan.
I know its outdated and that the franchise has grow out of it but i love the old americana stuff in scooby do, as a brit i love seeing that nostalgia for a country that i have no connection too. Its like lets say them coming across a red coat soldier ghost, its cool and i recognise it and i know its historical significance and i get that about the Yankee and confederate elements in older scooby shows
The use of it in the Globetrotters episode where Fred specifically says "Yankee" is one I particularly love even though it's kind of strange, the ghosts having such extreme old American looking designs is really striking in a memorable way
17:51, That is still something I never thought I'd hear Daphne (or her Voice Actress) would say at all......especially in another TV Show or Film.
I mean, Grey Delisle has done R rated voice acting before, and commonly does 14+ voice acting. In fact, my favourite role of her’s besides Daphne is Catwoman in the Batman Arkham universe, and she curses often in that role.
@@SarastistheSerpent Oh, okay, that makes more sense
@@SarastistheSerpent I never knew any of that until now, although it would be funny to here her drop some F-Bombs.
So I never really noticed the cozy Americana feel but I see what you mean and it is like half the reason I like gourmet ghost or witch's ghost because they are set in my home state of MA and I am currently in Arizona. Also I really appreciate the take of "acknowledging people exist is not political" like especially because when I discuss about things effecting queer people, people sometime treated like this is like part of some political football game where we root for our favorite politician and their beliefs and not something that does huge harm to a segment of the US. Like dude, it is freaking scary being trans still even if things are getting better.
And like new scooby doesn't stop old scooby from existing, like I hate the show but why can't we have a cannonically queer and racially diverse scooby doo cast.
Trick or Treat got us so close to having that be the new normal, and suddenly the franchise hits the standstill it's in now! An unfortunate place to be at, especially with the next movie having planned to return to Oakhaven briefly while delving into the Hex Girls further, queer icons in their own right.
I just want you to know that I find your content very entertaining and I'm happy you love Scooby Doo just as much as I do 🤩
I can never understand fandom discourse. I was raised with the mindset that if you don’t like something, you don’t have to watch it, but if you do, knock yourself out and enjoy it.
Very well done. Don't let the negative comments bring you down my friend. I enjoy your videos. Keep your head up and keep up with these awesome videos
I don't mind an adult scooby doo series
You need to do an episode on Scooby doo and the Addams family
Man I've loved your channel since the day I found it thanks for all the great videos and helping me reconnect with Scooby-Doo
I am not from America and i think Scooby-Doo was the first place i ever heard about American Civil War, heard the word "yankee" and saw A LOT of confederate imagery. Now i was kinda thinking "okay, actually, whats about that?" so i am really happy about this video. Its just really weird when one thinks about that for little longer(But i also imagine most of Hanna-Barbera content was painting this very white, very suburban and by that very conservative picture of America)
I kinda want to imagine now that Shaggy (and Scooby) adapted the hippie values to kinda stand against/distance themselves from his family history. Generally, maybe it would be interesting if (maybe some adult oriented Scooby-Doo project) ever tackled how Scooby and the gang often solved mysteries in places with pretty horrible history
Scooby-Doo and Jonah Hex team up when?
Actually now that I think about it that could sincerely work.
Videos like this is why I love your channel. You aren't afraid to speak your mind and you don't let toxic fans or questionable moments impact your enjoyment of the series.
Scooby-Doo and the Witch’s Ghost is such a huge favorite of mine simply because I live in Massachusetts, and I really appreciate seeing the culture of my sate represented in animation and film.
I’m sorry that you have had such a tidal wave of negative (and dumb) comments in your videos that you need to put disclaimers up… :(
You are my favorite Scooby Doo UA-camr and I look forward to every new video you make.
It is interesting to see how steeped in Americana Scooby Doo is; especially Southern Americana.
Even this video just a moment ago had somebody saying they don't agree with the "gay lifestyle" as a Christian and that they are being persecuted even with as many disclaimers as I put into this one on that particular subject 😭
@@Scoobytopia meh, let that person feel persecuted. They don’t sound like a Christian, they sound like a masochist for how they feel the need to not only watch your video (which must pain them so), but then leave a message to tell you how you’ve persecuted them. Ha!
Also funny they need to let you know that they don’t approve of your “gay lifestyle.” Like they are anyone to you.
It’s very neat to learn about the connections between Scooby-doo and the Civil War. Thank you for pointing out so many important scenes and locations from different stories. I appreciate the hard work you put into your videos. It’s too bad that you get so many rude comments, keep your head up and keep on doing what you love! I respect that Velma has found a good audience, but it’s just not for me. However if it’s important to you, then go right on ahead and enjoy it in your own way.
I wouldn't even say it's important to me, I definitely have a lot of issues with it as much as I can appreciate things like the animation, I just don't think it's so serious that people have to fight about it ravenously. I would think it would be a lot easier to just accept it wasn't made for you and not watch it rather than get red in the face from anger every time it's mentioned, as I see too often 😅
Grew up on scoobydoo to this day i still watch and im a adult
Admittedly I don't like how intentionally edgy Velma the show was trying to be due to how little it tried to subvert any of the offensive jokes it did, like Family Guy and South Park usually do. Plus the whole joking about MeToo was utterly disgusting considering Mindy's harassment accusations. Bizzare that the Scooby-Doo show with the main billing characters being a queer couple may be the most conservative in tone
Yeah, while I don't hate the show, it's chock-full of problems like that which I definitely take issue with. I think the last few episodes even that out for the most part, and that the second half could build on that, with the conservative jokes also disappearing the longer it went, but it's certainly an oddity of a series. I get the feeling most of the weird and problematic stuff came from Mindy herself from what I've seen and heard. It's quite bizarre for a series to, on the outside, be assumed incredibly "woke" while actually being quite the opposite, which only serves to alienate basically both sides of the audience. The kind of tone problem that should actually be discussed, rather than what typically is.
@@Scoobytopia yeah I feel like Mindy seems to be at the head of the issues with the show, which is unfortunate given that she's also the head of the show, though yeah it remains to be seen how much of an improvement the second batch of eps could be
With the gang more fully formed and even having the van, I think it will be at least more interesting going into the second half, and hopefully similar to how evened out the last few episodes were, but with the interference of Mindy I do doubt it will be a "great" series even with large improvements. Velma was made to be the worst and most annoying character in the show named for her, likely because of that interference, which is perhaps the worst sin you could commit when writing a series.
As someone who grew up in rural Deleware (a place my family often jokes is the farthest north you can go in the south), I appreciate this discussion of the Old Americana themes and civil war references. To me, it always evoked the melancholy of complicated family history. Fond memories of a terrible time, your relatives who were both loving and deeply flawed, things you accepted as life and never thought twice about.
Hell, my dad had a human skull in his closet for years because his fathers hunting buddies triped over it an the away home from deer hunting and it was too dark to find a hundred year old grave marker and couldn't recognize the spot in daylight. They used to set it next to the Halloween candy, and this was the late 60's so everyone knew it was too lifelike to be fake. (My aunt the archeologist did eventually return it in the early 90's tho.)
This story is just waiting for the curse and haunting of a spirit not at rest to appear. I've seen enough movies to know how that should have ended 😭
@@Scoobytopia The best story I have is from the guy who put our solar panels up last year, we asked him what the weirdest thing he found on a job was. They were putting in a geo thermal system for a farm and they kept running into piles of roks every yard or so when running the cooling pipes. So he calls the client and they say "Oh! You must have found the old slave burial ground!"
"The what?!"
"Yeah the owner said there was one on the property when I bought it 30 years ago. Tell your guys to head home. I'll call my friend in the achiogial society get them over here, you should know where to move the pipes by next week."
Just another day in the south apparently.
Another phenomenon video! I'm so sorry that you have to deal with hate from strangers, especially because this is Scooby-Doo. You're just making videos about something you love! Don't let them get you down. Keep up the good work!
This video was very insightful and also informative I also loved how you mentioned that even in the soundtrack of Scooby-Doo where are you that the theme of Americana is sprinkled throughout certain cues in the soundtrack in particular the cue that was used in this video was first used in episode 4 of season one entitled mine your own business
Yes this is a Scooby doo movie
Alright, history lesson. The reason civil war is so prevlent in scooby is because the creators grew up bumbarded by imagery of it. During the 50s -60s westerns were popular in the states and a often times episodes featured solders from one side of the conflict if they werent pulling the exact act youd expect when you think weastern. Watch a few hours of gunsmoke and the rifelmen if you want to varify that claim.
I actually grew up constantly with Gunsmoke in particular because my uncle was obsessed with it, and had just about every DVD release put out up until he passed away recently haha. As well as Bonanza and just about every other western he could put in front of me. Alas, the genre wasn't as engaging for me as it was for him
@@Scoobytopia i live in that situation as we speak lol. So you get that has to be where this stems from in early scooby. As those creators shift out and get replaced along the way i suspect we will see even more change to come.
Also, very much feel the same as you seem to about the western genera.
I can guarantee you that that as long as you don’t use Twitter or your children don’t use Twitter, they won’t ever have to deal with all this arguing and noise. They’ll just see Scooby-Doo they way they are meant to, to have fun!
Twitter is the bane of my existence. Maybe Elon Musk destroying it is a slow burn good thing to look forward to
Wow, a look on historical memories in the franchise. Cool video.
12:46: Wiccan as a religious belief didn't come around until the 70's, so the "witches ghost" couldn't have been wiccan, Why didn't Velma the all knowing point that out, I guess she was to busy being starstruck by Tim Curry, witch is understandable.
It's one of those rare instances where the villain is using something so clumsily that you would assume she would know about enough to correct, and yet not at all. This happened with the dryad I mentioned in the Batman video last time 😅 I guess even she has her off days
Maybe they went with Wiccan as a means of avoiding using the terms “pagan” or “soothsayer”? I can imagine that those terms might’ve made some parents upset. Or maybe to portray a wiccan as like a “good version” of a witch?
Or more likely the writers just could not care less about actual history or continuity lol. These are the same people who gave Shaggy a 200 year old uncle after all
Well... Even Velma can make mistakes, she ain't living encyclopedia. So she probably just didn't know that
I just can’t see Scooby Doo with a bit of Americana & it brought some lore to the Scooby Doo universe / gang
- As for ScoobyNatural I thought that it was the real life horrors of Supernatural was effecting the Scooby Doo episode
It was! It was a pretty perfect use of the crossover format that Scooby is known for, while actually being on the other party's turf for once and having them be affected instead of the other way around
Hell yeah man. I'm so glad you made this. In hight school I did a whole presentation on how scooby doo and the boo brothers was a representative political film. Displaying the bumbling nature of the left compared to the return of Southern values(conservatism represented by the confederacy) so I'm so glad this video exist
It's a really weird and interesting movie in so many ways! I expect to probably dive deeper into it and the rest of that trilogy someday, but it seemed the most appropriate to first touch on these aspects here 🤭
The first video you've posted since I've subscribed. Excited 😊
Swear there’s also union soldiers as Zombies in Zombie Island, I remember there being boys in blue. The Werecats where just willing to drain anyone, probably bought slaves just to drain them more then once.
Greatly researched and done video. Your channel is now on my top five Scoobytuber list.
🙏
Great video as always this was such a fun topic!
Can I just say your videos are my fave on the internet when u post I’m always bout to watch
I will always love scooby doo. I will always want to talk about scooby doo. I will always love watching my favorite scooby doo shows and movies.
What about “Big Scare in the Big Easy?”
That and the Guess Who episode with Abe Lincoln (and Funky Phantom!) are interesting in addressing this era specifically because of them trying to play both sides in contrast to the ways utilizing it before. But also in that they are no longer part of making it the entire aesthetic, but rather monsters of the week. By that point, they stopped being part of the core of the show, but rather just the weekly setting.
I do appreciate the fact that they didn't seem to glorifiy anything. They just skipped over it and just... used the setting to make creepy situations.
Also it's so nice to see someone not just blindly hating velma. It's popularity just showed those types of people were wrong in the assumption that it's going to be bad. But it's one of the more popular shows this year.
Also people were complaining about her potential being straight but it turns out that NOPE her and Daphne are queer in the show!? OK props to the creators to doing that fake out.
When I was a kid I heard it as counterfeit. When I got older, I never understood why the Confederate money was called worthless. sure you couldn't go buy a car or house with it. any currency that old you wouldn't be able to spend. However if sold to a collector who specializes in old coins and the sort, I'm sure you could walk away with a hefty sum.
OMG!😂 I never realized that’s why the money was worthless, I thought it was counterfeit or too old or something!😂
Speaking of Zombie Island did you know that it plot was planned in a cancelled Swat Kats episode and was recycled in the Real adventures of Jonny Quest episode eclipse and also the design of the zombie is very similar to the mummies episode?
But I guess you know about the fan theory that Fred and Shaggy are draft dodgers and what’s your favourite Scooby Doo monsters?
I did know that! It's a movie with a wry fascinating history and legacy 😁 some of my favorite legacy monsters are ones like Gramps the Vamp, the witch and zombie, snow beast, and such.
@@Scoobytopia okay then, do you think the Snow Ghost looks like Xemnu the living Hulk and did you think he should have been in Monsters Unleashed?
He carries several aspects of similar beasts IMO! I think he would have been out of place in monsters unleashed with his snowy creature type, while several ones they made costumes for I feel would have worked really well which makes it a shame they got cut.
@@Scoobytopia but at least he would be diverse from the other monsters especially giving him some improvement like the Miner 49er and while the zombie was pretty useless.
Scoobytopia, If I could make a series that would cover about mythical creatures it would be centered around the fearsome critters of the lumber woods and have it where the creatures described would be a mix of Europe's fae folk and Japan's yokai and go all in with the vintage art style that would be used to describe the fearsome critters like the gumbaroo or even the tailypo as well.🐕🦺🪓🌳🌲
It makes perfect sense that the original scooby doo would have that Americana- considering it debuted at a time where there was a huge push to have a sense of nationalism. Some of those old episodes are… uncomfy to say the least lol i still remember the first time that i realized there was something “not good” about the ghost of Geronimo, among other racist depictions of native people.
I haven’t seen Velma yet, it doesn’t feel like it’s going to be my sense of humor- but i am holding out for the day where we get a scooby doo series where all the characters are queer icons.
Even though I am not American I still like the feeling that it gives the series and kind of miss it
It's a warm and cozy feeling it brings that recent series like Guess Who, much as I like them, are definitely lacking.
Personally I like that they made Jackson T. Pettigrew sympathetic. I think it accurately shows that no one - Yankee or Confederate - was black and white. There were numerous reasons for each person for being enlisted at the time. And I think it’s very open minded of Scooby doo to show that Pettigrew was just as much a victim as the settlers, tourists and pirates.
As a kid i watched ALOT of Scooby Doo... like an Autistic ammount (I am Autistic and it was a long running hyper fixation) and I never really understand it either. I vaguely knew what the civil war was, I knew it was an old war and that some soldiers wore grey. When I watched Zombie Island I think I just kinda clumped the Confederate soldiers with the pirates. Watching back now I find it interesting and even a little funny when something is super outdated. My friends have a hard time seeing it that way but I will actively laugh when I see Revenge of the Nerds because of how outdated it is.
I'm from Poland and grew up watching this franchise. I used to collect CDs with films, episodes of tv series and comics. And I have to say that SD taught me what life in America looks and feels like and how the history "looked" like (costumes, architecture etc) hah
Can’t wait for Shaggy’s family tree.
I've looked at his before, but it's almost more daunting than Scooby and those skinny bearded people make me quite uncomfortable when in such a large mass 😭
@@Scoobytopia I enjoy watching your videos, it reminds me of the good old times when Scooby Doo is everyone’s childhood hero. It’s a good distraction from the recent Velma show.
That Rotten Tomatoes review bomb on The Proud Family I find SO ridiculous. People, it’s a children show, take it easy!
Slay you just fuled my gay happiness pop off
I admit I've at times wondered what I'd want from an adult scooby-doo series, and I often imagine a scenario where the Scooby-gang travel around the country but to places representative of real-world locations with spooks and mysteries all based on real life folk lore and folk history. The story team would be a diverse set of writers of different backgrounds, from or living in the U.S, with access to historical and cultural expertise who could use episodes to bring to light overlooked aspects of history and the social contexts from which folk-legends occur.
It would be highly uncommercial and require due diligence that feels like a pipedream for high-profile IP.
Maybe if the copyright breaks.
That said I do think it'd be nice to have an adult Scooby-doo series that doesn't lean so hard on shock humour. Like there's been so many 'What if the Scooby-gang where mean' parodies, including those I've enjoyed, that I feel like it's time too move forwards and see what else 'adult' scooby can bring.
I think what Mystery Incorporated did is closest to what I want and imagine, but being able to get away with doing even more without the interference of Cartoon Network executives saying it's too scary or too adult and has to be toned down. Exploring locations and monsters that can be more threatening along with character interactions that are meaningful and a story that continues past more than one episode. It's probably why SDMI remains my favorite series personally. With how bored people seemed to vocally be by Guess Who, I'm surprised people are still turned off at the idea of that.
@@Scoobytopia Mystery Incorporated IS good and well executed, but I admit I've found even MI a bit too mean to love it as much as many Sooby fans do.
My dream version of adult Scooby would probably be really boring and dry for most people; something that could still go darker but not sensational, with more focus on developing characters through episodic mysteries than one large drama or build up to conflict. Something people would call too introspective and naval-gazy, maybe with the vibes of a french water colour comic or a melancholic Iyashikei series. I'm an aging morbid granny at heart.
I admit I'm guilty of saying I wish Scooby could stay a bit more wholesome, but when I say that what I mean is that I like the franchise best when show and the characters are kind and when helping another person feels most important. I think I like the idea that even if your facing something frightening, there will be people out there who want to help and you can come together. I think even if the story gets bloody, that's the idea I'd still want there.
That's pretty in line with how I'd like it as well! The best moments and episodes of SDMI that I love are the moments when the gang have unison, especially in the second season and their inner melodrama evens out. I don't want the show to become violent or full of gore or swearing or any sex at all when I suggest the idea, but that's all people tend to assume is possible. It's one of the reasons I never want back after discovering I could get new shows every season with anime that have such variety and can actually be aimed at teens and adults without needing those. Maybe we just need a Scooby anime at this point. If Batman can do it multiple times, he should be allowed a turn.
@@Scoobytopia IYASHIKEI SCOOBY-DOO!! Something between works like Mushishi and and shonen horror manga with a bit of slice of life mixed in.
Unfortunately Scooby-doo is a work I've never really seen referenced or tributed in Japanese works so I don't get the impression it's particularly known. I think they've got their own thriving genre of young people meddling with the supernatural.
I admit if there is something I feel has been drifting away from modern Scooby-doo is the presence of atmosphere. Not necessarily that there's none there but rather that it doesn't feel as in the forefront. However I also feel that way about a lot of modern tv american animation that I suspect is more due to how production has developed as well as higher emphasis on writing rather than lack of will.
I love Guess Who but can definitely agree it's missing atmosphere, as with most recent Scooby shows. Some of the movies have it, but it varies. At the very least, I can connect Scooby to anime by association. Supernatural's first season was made by Madhouse into an anime adaptation for seemingly no real reason. Supernatural crossed over with Scooby. Scooby has met anime characters. iirc the Blue Falcon movie in prior drafts would have been at an anime convention, so it's long overdue to have something somewhere. When Batman got anime versions like most recently Batman Ninja and Catwoman Hunted, it was Warner having it made for America rather than Japan but still being true anime productions, so we just have to guilt it into existence once Scooby actually has a future again.
I wouldn't necessarily say the money was entirely worthless sure Scooby couldn't spend it but he could donate it to an civil war museum or a museum in general and probably they could give him some money for his trouble. Or go to an pawn shop and see if a if it was legit and b if so how much it was worth.
My problem with Velma is that it's not Scooby Doo. I don't mind it being for Adults. Hell I have wanted that for a while, and there is a fan mad adult Scooby Doo that I love on UA-cam. I mind that there is no hart to it. Everything leans mean spirited. They also don't focus on the mystery that much, to the point were they will go an ep and barley make reference to the mystery. It is the only Scooby Doo thing I achily hate. Well aside form return to Zombie Island but that has more to do with them trying to cram the old movie in to the new cannon when they should have made it separate from that run of movies.
If you like it then good for you.
19:41 to 21:59, I never really stop to think about it like that before until you brought it up.
Something that still makes no sense about Boo Brothers is how can Shaggy's Uncle have been a Confederate Colonel? The American Civil War ended May 9th, 1865. Even if Boo brothers were supposed to take place in 1969 (it came out in 1987), and even if we assumed that the Colonel died 10 years ago (his letter indicates he had to have met Shaggy at some point or at least heard about his appetite) and even if he became a colonel just before the war ended (after the required 20 years of service) he would still have been *132* years old when he died!
Maybe Shaggy's uncle was actually just a reenactor?
Edit: Wow, you had the same thought! Thanks for pointing that out!
Legitimately so many questions about his uncle, and that movie in general 😭
@@Scoobytopia Because of your point about the Confederate soldiers in Zombie Island I'm beginning to wonder, what if Colonel Beauregard became one of the Werecats? That would explain how he lived so long. Maybe before Boo Brothers began he finally couldn't live with himself anymore, and he abandoned the other Werecats and let himself die by not performing the annual ritual.
Now see, this is the kind of retroactive sequel story they should have had in Return to Zombie Island instead of what we got 😭 that movie was so half assed in the nostalgic callback aspect when they should have just gone even farther
Some Southern states have an old tradition of making respected citizens "honorary colonel of the militia." For example, Colonel Sanders! So that's what's going on with Shaggy's uncle.
EDIT Colonel Sanders the fried chicken guy not the character in that one Where Are You episode. : )
ScoobyNatural gets extra points for actually making a joke about KFC having an identically named Colonel 🤭
the scooby doo where are you season 1 and 2 mostly been in America
I love your in depth look at the scooby doo series, from scooby meets batman, to the new scooby doo movies.
I have no problems with characters with no existing proof of the character being one thing or another, like how Velma is never shown as being exclusively interested in men over women, nor do I have a problem with a character's color being shifted to another, as long as they are still the same character otherwise, and doesn't conflict with other parts of the character, like being Irish or German, without at least a good reason that compliments that background instead, like they are still Irish decent, but have a black mom and Irish dad or something.
I just don't like it when a character is changed in the middle of a series with no good reason, I'm fine if it's a different continuity or series, but if the series is set up as continuing the story of the previous series, I'd expect the characters traits to be continued as well rather than changed. So, none of the race changes or lesbianisms of Velma are a problem to me, I just don't like how they virtually slandered Velma's character by making her a nincompoop of a protagonist in her own show. The art style and animation is even decent at points, and I'd watch the show if it seemed worth th time, but it doesn't. The only bad Scooby-Doo show, and it doesn't even have Scooby-Doo in it.
It's definitely a show with problems, Velma herself specifically. I don't hate the show at all, but she is absolutely the worst, most poorly handled character in the show named after her. I get the feeling that it was Mindy Kaling herself and her interference that played a part in that. Her characterization is nothing like the character has been before, which is also true of the others, but when you also make her unlikable when she is the protagonist... it's a sin that should never be committed when writing a series.
@@Scoobytopia from what I hear, it appears that Norvil is the closest to Shaggy in character, but only barely, with just a few traits like eating a lot and getting scared, but is otherwise more about him hating drugs. Everybody else is just bare bones, I think Fred was done dirty the most after Velma, being unrecognizable. Daphne at least seems like a mean girl version of herself, so not as far off, but still not her. I'm truly disappointed in where the show went, I actually got interested by the initial trailer, despite the talk, but when I heard how they massacred the gang, I lost all interest.
I do think Daphne is by far the best character and most fun, the mean girls part softens after the two premiere episodes where we see it was more of what she fell into after Velma abandoned her, and she instead gets a story of self discovery as the show goes on that I think was interesting. The show isn't what I wanted out of it either and had many issues, most of all that Velma herself is unlikable and annoying in a self titled series likely due to meddling from Mindy Kaling. The last thing I would do is defend her characterization when saying I don't hate the show. The valid reasons are all understandable for not liking it or not watching it at all, but I did have a fun time watching it with family every week after accepting it for what it was eventually.
Ur the best - binging all of your scooby media c:
i'm not american so never got the civil war references at all but was a little ?? throughout gourmet ghost and zombie island because i knew there was something i was missing. i never really considered that american kids are engaging w/ scooby because of like americana nostalgia because for me scooby is just a fun ghost show i loved as a kid. most of my scooby references are the video games and the 2002 movie. it's good to hear about other people's perspectives on this and i'm sorry you're getting hate for it! i really like this videos - don't let it drag you down!
Maybe the will was delayed? Or hadn’t been discovered
It did just suddenly appear in the air and fly into the home, so maybe it took a good, long trip. The movie leaves so many questions haha
@@Scoobytopia yeah lol
@@Scoobytopia you should do a review of where are you it’s a great show and I’d love to see you cover it
Canadian here! As a kid, while I knew it was American imagery a lot of it just went over my head besides it just being stuff I saw in other American made shows. It is an odd pattern to look back on it though. Anyway, great video! I know it probably took a lot of courage to do, but thanks for making it.
Ever wish Tim Burton would do a season on SD!?
Just wanna see it dunno why.
SD came out in the height of Bicentennial mania ... everything was Americanaright then.
Watch dazed and confused.
It's especially interesting to see it basically used as set dressing, as much as they do any other culture from other countries when the gang travels. Most of my favorite movies are directed by Tim Burton, so I would never be opposed to seeing him have a take on the show just out of curiosity.
Another fine video.
It is rather suspicious the amount of confederate imagery, though I'd never thought about it. I will say this at the very least though: during the Civil War, there was a draft on both sides; it's highly likely that at the very least a few Confederate soldiers weren't necessarily evil, awful, racist people, but during that time, showcasing sympathy towards slaves and people of color wouldve gotten you shot or hung as a traitor to your state, race, and heritage, so they would've had to keep quiet and fight for a cause they didn't necessarily believe in. It may even have only been a handful in a state. As a resident of Missouri, my home state was definitely a source of discourse during that time because it had people from both sides of the spectrum. This is where the line was literally and proverbially drawn.
It's also of note that plantations still do exist today, just with actual payment to the people who work on them. The word definitely has a negative connotation due to being associated with slavery and the Confederacy.
Just some thoughts I've had while listening.
Personally, the best kind of Americana in Scooby Doo is the kind that the love of retro music and aesthetic of 1950s malt shops and such. The pro-Confederate imagery and tasteless jabs at minorities are a product of the time, but we musnt erase them from the media, because to do so would be to pretend that those mistakes never existed and that we don't need to try to do better.
There are definitely good people on both sides of any aspect, and antebellum mansions and plantations aren't inherently bad, and of course, quite often beautiful to look at as with Zombie Island or even Disney's Haunted Mansion. It's just very funny and interesting to see how much of it has been tied to the franchise in contrast to the longer lasting connotations of the imagery that they clearly had no idea would age so absurdly, such as the idea of both Scooby and Shaggy having confederate families being very humorous to think about rather than offensive. Likewise, all the absurd or off portrayals of other cultures and races that are always interesting to look at from the times. Settings like the Sleepy Hollow-set episode or Malt Shops or other cozy feeling aspects of using Americana are definitely the areas that have aged the best in the decades since.
I appreciate you for being honest about ur thoughts on Velma and also making sure that any undue hate doesn't happen in the comments section. Man of a thousand thoughts had a youtube short about it and the comments were all so vitriolic. Im personally pretty glad warner bros realizes theres a market for more adult animation for their bankable properties (harley quinn, Scooby doo) because as a looney tunes fan im waiting on baited breath for something akin for that franchise. If for nothing else other than a one off movie
The show isn't great and has problems, I even have many issues I readily speak on loudly even as someone that doesn't hate the show and had a good time, but I've never seen this kind of toxicity toward what should be an easily ignored or forgotten title, even before we knew anything. I would love to see adult animation in the world of Scooby, no sex or gore or anything but just allowing it to be moody and atmospheric again, and while Velma wasn't that, people acted like it was a sin against all sins just at the idea and then never gave it a chance. It's easy to have discussions on why the show failed and even where it did succeed, such as the animation, without being as hateful as people tend to be on this topic. I certainly hope more WB animated properties get their chance to try out the adult animation market and find better success.
Fun fact, due with stuff like demand or condition, legitimate Confederate States of America dollars can go from $5usd to thousands. So the dollars aren't worthless.
Another thing that's a little out of date with the old show's depiction lol. No longer holding value as they say to definitely being worth something doesn't help in trying to figure out what it meant as time passes with less and less context haha
When I watched Zombie Island as a kid I didn't realize that the soldiers were confederate soldiers. When I watched as a little bit older and realized I was like "Oh... That's uh interesting" but it didn't make me enjoy the movie any less. I agree with this video in that we have to acknowledge this type of stuff in both Scooby and beyond and see the flaws, but that doesn't mean we can't and don't enjoy it
This was a fantastic analysis. It was honest, objective, insightful, passionate but not forceful. I'm glad that you looked at both sides of the coin, expressing the flaws and the merits of the show, as many people should do with media instead of erasing it or forgetting about the good.
Hello fellow Scooby doo fan your are a UA-cam legend with this encyclopedia of Scooby doo knowledge it’s my Graceland!
YES! new video!!!! 1st edit: love your videos!! and your voice! 2nd edit: on zombie island, I always thought it was kinda funny that the ghosts are all actually bad people prior to the cat curse. moonscar isn't the victim, he kills the entire settlement. and the soldiers are confederate an the tourists are... the classic annoying ignorant looking type. wasn't that all some sort of subtle not so subtle commentary?
Maybe at least the people that look like they came there on vacation can be given the benefit of the doubt... we need somebody innocent that wasn't a soldier or pirate or something to mix it up
@@Scoobytopia they look like Karens… but innocent until proven guilty 😅
They do give off annoying poolside people in a 2000s summer comedy
I really liked how you addressed the Velma backlash. I’m not sure what else to add but I’m glad I discovered your channel as I love Scooby-Doo as well.
So what movie got leaked that you had to censor in the video? Just cause I want to look into it myself.
Well as a non American I did not get all the Americana reference but as a person how has a history teacher in the family I was told about it . Also I don't give a shit if Velma is black/queer
I don't think the americana is a flaw. As someone who grew up in the 1970's this was a normal part of American culture and I for one miss it.
Oh boy, this comment section is gonna be something. Best of luck
The filters will be working the UA-cam servers overtime, I fear
Interesting analysis, I noticed half of the series deals with Americana. Did/are you gonna analyze ScoobyNatural??
I did save my copy of the episode and the other two related for a future more in-depth video on it and Night of Fright/Wraith, likely for a Scariest Villains segment as they've been heavily requested there. I was actually going to do it last year, but then another UA-camr did a video covering it, and I didn't want to look like I was copying, so I scrapped plans and didn't watch his video to make sure if I do come back to it that won't happen.
I'm southern born and raised and proud of it. A lot of people think that southerns haven't changed over the years. While I will admit I do know people who are still old school, most other southerns I know and myself are not like that anymore. The way we see it is "you treat us good, we treat you good. If ya need help we'll help ya if we can" and it doesn't matter about the color of skin. Yes, we still hang out in different places, I've hung out at a plantation out on the bayou in Louisiana, it's part of our history and it's still cool like that to us. Everyone has their past and ancestry and while not all of us is something to be proud of it some of it is. Don't judge a person by their ancestry, ya never know when you might be driving out in the country and get a flat tire.
I also live in the south and pretty much only experience the not so good kind of people that love a certain flag very loud for openly bad and proud reasons here, so it's a little unsafe to be TOO trusting at least where I am 😅
@@Scoobytopia fair enough, I guess I just got lucky and in the right place and met the right people
Dose anyone else but me realize that they were foolish to throw away the Confederate money!? Its still worth a lot of money! As antiques and collectibles! Heck just one confederate 500 dollar notes is worth more that the bill was!
9:40 I hear shaggy is already rich in the show but only lets close friends now that