I agree with that 100%. And I believe that if Gaggia make such a decision they will take a massive financial hit and also a big hit in their reputation. People's trust will totally lost for this brand.
Agreed. Phillips/Gaggia needs to stop making coated boilers and provide free boiler replacement kits (new aluminum boiler on WLL for $35). A problem like that is a "brand killer" The problem is also an opportunity because many thousands of Gaggia owners would probably be a good market for a stainless steel boiler upgrade kit with a larger capacity.
I have the gaggia classic pro, I clean the group with cafiza and descale the machine every 3 months and my gaggia is perfect, in April I will celebrate one year of having it, greetings from coloombia
I blew up my SAECO/Jura Via Venezia pistonmachine after 12 years of continuous use when forgetting a timely cleaning of the showerscreen, so the high pressure blew up the pump connection inside. So I went for the Gaggia last month and now wonder whether this was a wise decision. BTW the original Jura Via Venezia model had a copper boiler inside, which the SAECO licensed built successor had not. I can probably repair this last machine since some Saeco parts are still available (but Philips killed the production of this model). 😞
I own a 2019-model GCP. I bought it last month off Facebook marketplace. It was 1 1/2 y.o., very gently used, came with lots of expensive accessories for $350. Part of the Espresso Game seems to be forever looking at other machines and the MiiApex for $499 looks awesome.
I have been monitoring for flakes for about a month now on my Evo Pro purchased in late November. I’ve seen random black specks from the steam wand but not the group head. However. A week ago I got some from the group as well. I removed my boiler and found a small amount of scale and areas where the black coating appears to be missing, exposing the bare metal underneath. I personally chose to replace the boiler myself with an uncoated one to be done with it. I was using a BWT BestCup filter since the beginning to help reduce scale. I planned on descaling at 2 months of use, but I removed and replaced the boiler because of the appearance of black flecks in the water coming out. I have only been pulling shots on weekends, so light use compared to others. However, there was a definite issue. There was some initial claim from Gaggia supposedly that it was limited to a certain run of their production line. However, it seems people in forums and groups are experiencing issues outside of this window of production. My particular machine is from week 18, based on my serial number if anyone cares.
How do you read the serial number? I mean, which two numbers indicate the week of manufacture? Are they the ones after 23? If that's so, then mine is week 19.
I got mine 2 month ago, no flakes out of my wand so far, I use filtered water to reduce descaling.. i don’t know if I am affected or not. I’ll keep watching. Maybe installing the old uncoated boiler would resolve this, Gaggia must produce a stainless steel boiler.
I got one for Christmas and started getting flakes from the steam wand within a few days. I assumed somehow coffee grounds were getting sucked into the boiler. I get about 10-20 flakes every time I run the wand 😞
It seems legit, and the boiler coating is new on the EVO models. I have an EVO but don't have the issue (yet) and hopefully won't get it. Good to see that Whole Latte Love will honour it. That's where I got mine from so that's helpful. I've had mine for 2 months or so, daily use using an ION exchanger filter in it and haven't descaled. I wonder if descaling it helps or hinders this.. I'm worried to do one now til more info is out there. I'll keep using the ion exchanger for now. I think 60 out of how many thousands is concerning, but I suspect less than the average T-fal pan % of returns. I'm going to keep an eye on mine, but not going to panic or over-react.
@@HoonsCoffee welp it looks like I spoke too soon, I noticed a few flakes coming out of the steam wand when I was drawing hot water. Been in contact with WLL since. hopefully it gets resolved. I'll post a comment about the outcome when I hear back.
@@HoonsCoffee Just to update, I've been in contact with WLL who said Gaggia is sending a replacement to me, and I send the old one back. They claim there was a number of units had defective polymerization when the coating was applied. I wonder how many are totally affected. I bet most people wouldn't even notice!
@@trev_mcnaughton Replacement with what kind of boiler? IMHO, the coating makes the machine fairly worthless. Philips/Gaggia seems to be handling this problem in the worst possible way.
@@SunriseLAW I agree. I’m not sold on the “polymerization issue on some machines.” I don’t trust the coated boiler altogether. I think the idea was a good one, but not sure the application will work as intended without issues. I personally don’t want another machine with a coated boiler, but I do like my machine. I’m just going to replace my boiler and group head to the aluminum boiler and plated brass group from the previous version. But that’s just me. I’m not ready to upgrade to a better machine just yet. I’m asking WLL to cover the parts instead of a replacement machine. Still waiting to hear back from them. I’ve heard this option was offered direct from Gaggia to owners outside the US, so we will see.
I got a GCP last month and I returned it ASAP when I saw flakes. Went for the Profitec GO, though more than twice the price I never regret the decision. Build quality and features are worth it. Was hoping to make it a Gagguino but maybe in the future when Boilergate is resolved.
It definitely started flaking after a few uses. I’m now returning it. They were aware and didn’t give me any problems returning it. After I get my refund I’ll be getting a Rancilio Silvia. Don’t want to risk getting another flaking EVO model
I have a Gaggia Classic Pro Evo purchased in June 2023 and started seeing black particles from the steam wand when dispensing water this month. This seems to have started with a descale about three weeks ago. I reached out to whole latte love yesterday and filed a service issue but haven’t heard back from them yet. Hoping to just get a refund or credit and buying a more expensive machine.
Mine had black particles from the second week of use. I didn't ever get the chance to descale the machine before the problem occurs. And I was using a 4-stage filtered water from the begining.
@@JavaZombie A desire for self-reliance, autonomy, independence, and love of our shared humanity? There are ways to motivate without rewarding or incentivizing greed.
If I bought an EVO, I would not worry at all. I would buy/install a replacement GCP aluminum boiler on WLL for $35 (!!!!) I was shocked it was so affordable. It would be awesome if there were a larger, stainless steel upgrade boiler available for the GCP, probably is but I have not ran across it yet.
1: In the EU you break the CE marking if you change the boiler yourself, which means that you take over the responsibility if something were to happen, fire or the like. 2: Many customers would not be comfortable changing a boiler, you may be handy and used to it, but the average customer is not. 3: If you change the boiler, you should change to a chrome brew head to avoid galvanic currents. 4: In Europe a new brew head and boiler costs around $100, that is of course, a sum you should not have to spend on a new machine for it to function according to the specification.
@@ViniCavin Definitely still getting particulates when running water through the steam wand. Will have to see if WLL (Whole Latte Love) will just let me swap out the boiler. Don't want to send the whole thing back, already bought a bunch of mods for it.
@@anthonyyu2722 that’s sad :( I thought about buying one but now I’m having second thoughts. Do you happen to know the manufacture date? Apparently the batch from July 23 is the faulty one
@@ebikecnx7239Haven't contacted them yet. Deciding against it since they just have non-Evo boilers when checking their website. Even if I was to do a full exchange, there are supposedly people out there that still have that same problem persist after a swap. Strange, my comment before yours must have gotten deleted. @ViniCavin if you're reading this, mine is dated 03/2023.
I bought mine back in November here in Greece and from the second week of use I saw black flakes everytime I flush before extractions. It is my first prosumer machine and I am quite disappointed spending so much money 💰 for essentially nothing.
did you ask to returning the machine for another one,or go for refund of your money?Do you contact the retailer for the problem and if yes whats the options?Heard that at north america send another boiler coated or non and even offer refund in some cases
I contact the local retailer couple days ago and they asked me to send a photo of the serial number of the machine located underneath it. I'm waiting for their response (maybe today) regarding any available options/offers from them. I'll keep you posted.@@wsx1_
I contacted 3 days ago the local dealer and they asked me to send them the serial number. I gave it the very next day but still no response from them ever since.@@wsx1_
@@Deeper-Trends i have the same issue and if i change the boiler to the older uncoated version i must change the brass grouphead also with the older chrome plated due to galvanic corrosion between brass and aliminium so i will have a classic pro finally
Can anyone share the link to that article in the video? I would appreciate it very much. Cuz I did quite a bit search both in Google and the web of `Espresso Setup Builder` but I could find it at all. Censored??? No idea happened to such a famous product line which thousands of units have been sold. Is there any strict QA or stress test against such big change? E.g. pulling shots continuously for hours, descaling everyday etc. I guess the problem might be severe than what has been reported. Who would notice some tiny black pieces in their dark color coffee? If had seen that for the first time, I would take them as some coffee grounds??? Also, it makes think that those Teflon frying pans, which work at even higher temperature, only God knows how much micro plastic people have consumed from the Teflon coating. I think Gaggia should do a complete recall and replace the coated boiler back to the aluminum ones before they can manufacture their boiler in brass or stainless steel. I quite doubt about the new coating they claimed, given the short period of time since issue happened. How much tests have they done to make sure that new coating would not peel off?
All Gaggia had to do was add a few bucks to the price and use a stainless boiler. Teflon coating was a stupid decision. Gaggia should just recall them and offer free replacement boilers and installation.
Have you seen the pictures on the boiler on Reddit, I've had my EVO for 6 months and looking at the pictures knowing that you drank that crap for 6 months makes me sick!
Reading and hearing about all these complaints and you continue to say if that’s is true, do you not trust your fan base? I commend your ability to deflect a sensitive topic but I understand that you wouldn’t want to loose your coffee machine and roaster sponsors.
Definitely feel like there's some kind of cover up happening. Some of my replies to comments aren't showing even though they're in my comments history and I didn't say anything that violates Community Guidelines. If someone reported me, it would give me closure to know the reason for it. @ViniCavin @ebikecnx7239 -- I'd reply to you here, but I'll give Google the benefit of the doubt in case it was a glitch and they restore those hidden replies.
Because of the teflon like coating of the Evo Pro’s, those flakes are appearing. All of the Evos should have a recall.
I agree with that 100%. And I believe that if Gaggia make such a decision they will take a massive financial hit and also a big hit in their reputation. People's trust will totally lost for this brand.
Agreed. Phillips/Gaggia needs to stop making coated boilers and provide free boiler replacement kits (new aluminum boiler on WLL for $35). A problem like that is a "brand killer" The problem is also an opportunity because many thousands of Gaggia owners would probably be a good market for a stainless steel boiler upgrade kit with a larger capacity.
I have the gaggia classic pro, I clean the group with cafiza and descale the machine every 3 months and my gaggia is perfect, in April I will celebrate one year of having it, greetings from coloombia
Wow. I was considering purchasing this model until now.
I was going to order it today. What a shame.
I blew up my SAECO/Jura Via Venezia pistonmachine after 12 years of continuous use when forgetting a timely cleaning of the showerscreen, so the high pressure blew up the pump connection inside. So I went for the Gaggia last month and now wonder whether this was a wise decision. BTW the original Jura Via Venezia model had a copper boiler inside, which the SAECO licensed built successor had not. I can probably repair this last machine since some Saeco parts are still available (but Philips killed the production of this model). 😞
I own a 2019-model GCP. I bought it last month off Facebook marketplace. It was 1 1/2 y.o., very gently used, came with lots of expensive accessories for $350. Part of the Espresso Game seems to be forever looking at other machines and the MiiApex for $499 looks awesome.
Get the old Classic Pro instead
I have been monitoring for flakes for about a month now on my Evo Pro purchased in late November. I’ve seen random black specks from the steam wand but not the group head. However. A week ago I got some from the group as well. I removed my boiler and found a small amount of scale and areas where the black coating appears to be missing, exposing the bare metal underneath. I personally chose to replace the boiler myself with an uncoated one to be done with it. I was using a BWT BestCup filter since the beginning to help reduce scale. I planned on descaling at 2 months of use, but I removed and replaced the boiler because of the appearance of black flecks in the water coming out. I have only been pulling shots on weekends, so light use compared to others. However, there was a definite issue. There was some initial claim from Gaggia supposedly that it was limited to a certain run of their production line. However, it seems people in forums and groups are experiencing issues outside of this window of production. My particular machine is from week 18, based on my serial number if anyone cares.
How do you read the serial number? I mean, which two numbers indicate the week of manufacture? Are they the ones after 23? If that's so, then mine is week 19.
@@Deeper-TrendsI have the same question
@@Deeper-TrendsI believe that’s correct. The two digits after 23, in position 7 and 8.
@@nickarcher4821 Thnx for confirmation.
Aluminum boiler replacement on WLL for $35.
gaggia must make stainlees internal boiler lining or massive brass boiler
I got mine 2 month ago, no flakes out of my wand so far, I use filtered water to reduce descaling.. i don’t know if I am affected or not. I’ll keep watching.
Maybe installing the old uncoated boiler would resolve this, Gaggia must produce a stainless steel boiler.
I got one for Christmas and started getting flakes from the steam wand within a few days. I assumed somehow coffee grounds were getting sucked into the boiler. I get about 10-20 flakes every time I run the wand 😞
I just spent so much time researching and putting money to the side to finally order mine TODAY to just find out about this now. Man, smdh
it is 100% legit. It seems to be most evo boilers if not all of them
I have a GCP Evo and I am affected. This is going to be bad for Gaggia if they don't address this soon.
It seems legit, and the boiler coating is new on the EVO models. I have an EVO but don't have the issue (yet) and hopefully won't get it. Good to see that Whole Latte Love will honour it. That's where I got mine from so that's helpful. I've had mine for 2 months or so, daily use using an ION exchanger filter in it and haven't descaled. I wonder if descaling it helps or hinders this.. I'm worried to do one now til more info is out there. I'll keep using the ion exchanger for now. I think 60 out of how many thousands is concerning, but I suspect less than the average T-fal pan % of returns. I'm going to keep an eye on mine, but not going to panic or over-react.
Thank you so much for info!
@@HoonsCoffee welp it looks like I spoke too soon, I noticed a few flakes coming out of the steam wand when I was drawing hot water. Been in contact with WLL since. hopefully it gets resolved. I'll post a comment about the outcome when I hear back.
@@HoonsCoffee Just to update, I've been in contact with WLL who said Gaggia is sending a replacement to me, and I send the old one back. They claim there was a number of units had defective polymerization when the coating was applied. I wonder how many are totally affected. I bet most people wouldn't even notice!
@@trev_mcnaughton Replacement with what kind of boiler? IMHO, the coating makes the machine fairly worthless. Philips/Gaggia seems to be handling this problem in the worst possible way.
@@SunriseLAW I agree. I’m not sold on the “polymerization issue on some machines.” I don’t trust the coated boiler altogether. I think the idea was a good one, but not sure the application will work as intended without issues. I personally don’t want another machine with a coated boiler, but I do like my machine. I’m just going to replace my boiler and group head to the aluminum boiler and plated brass group from the previous version. But that’s just me. I’m not ready to upgrade to a better machine just yet. I’m asking WLL to cover the parts instead of a replacement machine. Still waiting to hear back from them. I’ve heard this option was offered direct from Gaggia to owners outside the US, so we will see.
I was going to purchase the gaggia but definitely won’t I’m just not sure which machine to buy
I got a GCP last month and I returned it ASAP when I saw flakes. Went for the Profitec GO, though more than twice the price I never regret the decision. Build quality and features are worth it. Was hoping to make it a Gagguino but maybe in the future when Boilergate is resolved.
I just got a evo pro in today. Should I even risk it and return it asap or wait to see if it starts flaking ?
how did it go?
It definitely started flaking after a few uses. I’m now returning it. They were aware and didn’t give me any problems returning it. After I get my refund I’ll be getting a Rancilio Silvia. Don’t want to risk getting another flaking EVO model
is it only pro evo model with this coating at the root of boilergate?
only evo
I have a Gaggia Classic Pro Evo purchased in June 2023 and started seeing black particles from the steam wand when dispensing water this month. This seems to have started with a descale about three weeks ago. I reached out to whole latte love yesterday and filed a service issue but haven’t heard back from them yet. Hoping to just get a refund or credit and buying a more expensive machine.
Mine had black particles from the second week of use. I didn't ever get the chance to descale the machine before the problem occurs. And I was using a 4-stage filtered water from the begining.
What machine are you thinking of buying?? I believe I'll be going the same route
Thanks for sharing this! This is a great example of the problems with the profit motive and the “free” market.
Without motivation (profit), why would anyone do anything?...
@@JavaZombie A desire for self-reliance, autonomy, independence, and love of our shared humanity? There are ways to motivate without rewarding or incentivizing greed.
If I bought an EVO, I would not worry at all. I would buy/install a replacement GCP aluminum boiler on WLL for $35 (!!!!) I was shocked it was so affordable. It would be awesome if there were a larger, stainless steel upgrade boiler available for the GCP, probably is but I have not ran across it yet.
Thanks for the info, I found that part WLL based on your hints. which is about $60 -$80 in eBay.
@@ngc35ster $35 on Whole Latte Love. Not sure if links post but I will try in a separate comment.
1: In the EU you break the CE marking if you change the boiler yourself, which means that you take over the responsibility if something were to happen, fire or the like.
2: Many customers would not be comfortable changing a boiler, you may be handy and used to it, but the average customer is not.
3: If you change the boiler, you should change to a chrome brew head to avoid galvanic currents.
4: In Europe a new brew head and boiler costs around $100, that is
of course, a sum you should not have to spend on a new machine for it to function according to the specification.
Crap, my first espresso machine and this happens. Had mine for less than two months. Gonna see if mine is affected later.
Have you checked your machine? What are the results? Thx!
@@ViniCavin Definitely still getting particulates when running water through the steam wand. Will have to see if WLL (Whole Latte Love) will just let me swap out the boiler. Don't want to send the whole thing back, already bought a bunch of mods for it.
@@anthonyyu2722 that’s sad :( I thought about buying one but now I’m having second thoughts. Do you happen to know the manufacture date? Apparently the batch from July 23 is the faulty one
How's their customer service at Whole Latte Love? I heard it's bad.
@@ebikecnx7239Haven't contacted them yet. Deciding against it since they just have non-Evo boilers when checking their website. Even if I was to do a full exchange, there are supposedly people out there that still have that same problem persist after a swap.
Strange, my comment before yours must have gotten deleted. @ViniCavin if you're reading this, mine is dated 03/2023.
I bought mine back in November here in Greece and from the second week of use I saw black flakes everytime I flush before extractions. It is my first prosumer machine and I am quite disappointed spending so much money 💰 for essentially nothing.
did you ask to returning the machine for another one,or go for refund of your money?Do you contact the retailer for the problem and if yes whats the options?Heard that at north america send another boiler coated or non and even offer refund in some cases
I contact the local retailer couple days ago and they asked me to send a photo of the serial number of the machine located underneath it. I'm waiting for their response (maybe today) regarding any available options/offers from them. I'll keep you posted.@@wsx1_
I contacted 3 days ago the local dealer and they asked me to send them the serial number. I gave it the very next day but still no response from them ever since.@@wsx1_
@@Deeper-Trends i have the same issue and if i change the boiler to the older uncoated version i must change the brass grouphead also with the older chrome plated due to galvanic corrosion between brass and aliminium so i will have a classic pro finally
@@wsx1_ Yes I know. If I can get to keep the stainless steel portafilter from the Evo maybe I switch back to Classic 2019 too.
A stainless steel boiler would dix this problem
Can anyone share the link to that article in the video? I would appreciate it very much. Cuz I did quite a bit search both in Google and the web of `Espresso Setup Builder` but I could find it at all. Censored???
No idea happened to such a famous product line which thousands of units have been sold. Is there any strict QA or stress test against such big change? E.g. pulling shots continuously for hours, descaling everyday etc.
I guess the problem might be severe than what has been reported. Who would notice some tiny black pieces in their dark color coffee? If had seen that for the first time, I would take them as some coffee grounds??? Also, it makes think that those Teflon frying pans, which work at even higher temperature, only God knows how much micro plastic people have consumed from the Teflon coating.
I think Gaggia should do a complete recall and replace the coated boiler back to the aluminum ones before they can manufacture their boiler in brass or stainless steel. I quite doubt about the new coating they claimed, given the short period of time since issue happened. How much tests have they done to make sure that new coating would not peel off?
Espresso News: Boilergate
Yup got this issue with mine. 🤦🏻♂️
All Gaggia had to do was add a few bucks to the price and use a stainless boiler. Teflon coating was a stupid decision. Gaggia should just recall them and offer free replacement boilers and installation.
I have the flakes!! unmerry xmas.. :(
Have you seen the pictures on the boiler on Reddit, I've had my EVO for 6 months and looking at the pictures knowing that you drank that crap for 6 months makes me sick!
Teflon flakes ☠️
Reading and hearing about all these complaints and you continue to say if that’s is true, do you not trust your fan base? I commend your ability to deflect a sensitive topic but I understand that you wouldn’t want to loose your coffee machine and roaster sponsors.
How this is being handled is poor and will be hesitant to buy a Gaggia.
Definitely feel like there's some kind of cover up happening. Some of my replies to comments aren't showing even though they're in my comments history and I didn't say anything that violates Community Guidelines. If someone reported me, it would give me closure to know the reason for it.
@ViniCavin @ebikecnx7239 -- I'd reply to you here, but I'll give Google the benefit of the doubt in case it was a glitch and they restore those hidden replies.