The muzzle brake being the sacrificial baffle in a suppressor is common knowledge on Form1 forums. Im kind of suprised its not widely understood and implemented throughout the suppressor community. I could definitely see this on a 10.3-13.7 that burning gun powder is like a plasma cutter on anything it hits. I will keep this in mind for the 11.5 pistol I have planned. Ill say I kind of hate the idea of shooting a muzzle brake on a 10.3 or 11.5 a lot. The ones Ive shot with an A2 birdcage were very concussive. Data point: Garand Thumb has 80k rounds through his gen I Socom suppressor. Shoot away folks, youre not gonna break your Socom RC2. Its full auto rated. If muzzle flash w/o the can is a concern the keep the ctn fh/warcomp. Good video
Its pretty close to the 3 prong…like there is barely a flash at all. Quick, tiny, small. Alot of shots there are no flashes only matters at night. If your fighting urban or shtf at night it wont matter. If it does matter then you and the people your fighting are trained and have night vision. If they do…then again it wont matter. Plus the closed tine is better with a Can. Ive moved with a 3 prong through alot of terrain. You know whatll kill you? The fact that it grabs every branch and everything while your moving through the shit. CT is good. If you cant ever or dont ever plan on getting a can…get a 3 prong
So freaking thankful to have seen this!! Just purchased an RC2 and it's also my first can. Looks like I'll be getting CTN for the shorty, and a break for the recce now. Thank you for the knowledge!
Great video man, your absolutely correct. The muzzle brake is also a little louder suppressed. The 3 prong suppressed on a URGI is almost hearing safe but the Surefire MB suppressed is like a non-suppressed 22 pistol. Kinda sucks because you cant really shoot the rifle non-suppressed without over-pressure from the brake. Its painful even with ear pro. Thanks for touching on this topic. The first baffle on my RC2 is clover leaved from the FH after a 1000 rds.
@@austingash1363 There is a clover leaf shape from the 3 prong FH sand blasted into the first baffle of the suppressor. Eventually it will erode the first baffle of the can but it is a little quieter with the flash hider suppressed over the muzzle brake suppressed. However; the muzzle brake will act as a sacrificial baffle for dedicated suppressed prolonging the life of the can.
@fmxmyway I have a question that I haven't seen discussed before. Does using a muzzle brake vs a flash hider, in conjuction with a suppressor, increase flash signature to any measurable or noticeable degree? I'm currently using a Surefire muzzle brake with a Surefire Socom556 RC2. I went with a brake to act as a sacrificial baffle. Saying this, flash signature reduction is my highest priority so I'm willing to switch it out for a flash hider if there's a noticeable difference.
@@YippeeKiYayMrFalcon I noticed it so I switched from the MB to the FH in conjunction with my RC2. That style can knows when it’s wearing a MB despite the labyrinth seal because sparks will come out the back of the suppressor as the flash is going out the sides. The FH directs everything towards the baffles allowing them to eat all the pressure. However; after 600 rds I had a noticeable clover leaf sand blasted into the first baffle but that’s the suppressor doing it’s job as it is a disposable item. The sacrificial baffle of the MB will prolong the life of the can but not necessarily the performance of flash mitigation and decibel reduction.
@@fmxmyway @fmxmyway wow, ok. I really appreciate your input! I may need to reconsider using the muzzle brake then.. I'm also a bit surprised that I haven't seen this topic discussed before.
Thank you for this video, just got an RC 2 and went with the closed tine warcomp and then saw there’s all this information saying they were bad for the can and all around poor
Happy to help bro. Also.......eyeballing that M9A3 as soon as one comes back in stock. The WC 92G Centurion at the LGS sold much to my dismay. They do have a 92X competition or whatever there which I don't need at all................BUT I WANT IT. Feels perfect.
Great information brother. It's amazing how different the firearms acts when you add a can. I seen someone shoot a USP Tactical with a huge can on the gun, the frame cracked and he blamed the manufacture. He shot the firearm with a can not approved for the gun and never checked or changed the recoil spring after shooting 20k of suppressed.
Interesting...if you talk to the guys at SureFire, they recommend almost the exact opposite. That the standard 3/4-prong flash hiders are the best for dedicated suppressor platforms.
@@WDLC1911 What did you find out? Thinking about getting a can. Really don't want to switch out my warcomps (run them on almost everything); I love them so much.
@@ChooChoo_4u I was told that a muzzle brake would supply more protection but their three prong muzzle devices are just fine. A closed tine would also protect the blast baffle a little better than the three prong devices but all are fine. So, if you’re going to occasionally shoot without the suppressor a closed tine muzzle device is probably the way.
Just got into these brakes and the RC2 as of a few days ago. Seeing this, I think what I'll wind up doing is using my 3 prong on a rifle where the can is OPTIONAL, and get the CTN for my bull pup which will see the can much more. I like the 3 prong for what it offers outside of the can, but it's on a rifle that only want the occasional capability of running the new suppressor.
Found your video after seeing the pew science review detailing diminished suppressor performance when running the 3 tine war comp vs 3 tine flash hider. The indication from the article and supported by Surefire was that this was due to the lack of seals on the warcomp. Wondering if you have noticed the suppression being better with the brake or 3 prong flash hider than the ctn since the ctn also lacks those seals. Thanks
those "labyrinth seals" are key to directing the gas pressure. he is correct about the "sacrificial baffle". Comps are great if you don't EVER take your can off. There is a reason the Sopmod program sticks with the 4 and 3 prong though
Yes you are correct! They do not recommend warcomp as highly as the 4 prong 3 prong or muzzle brake due to carbon lock if you really run your gun and dont have lots of opportunity for often removal and attention. 4 prong, muzzle brake then 3 prong for on and off. Rated decidble rating in testing was minimal difference if i remember correctly it was2 dB difference. I think it was 135 for 4 prong and 137 for muzzle brake with rc2 and 14.5 barrel. I will see if I can find the article and pin
Coach Grandpa here,,,Dang I have three prongs on all my AR15's,,I thought that made me the king of the jungle,,,,My SOCOM556 RC2 suppressor lives on the MK18 though,,,I'll need to watch for this thanks,,I guess I need to order a new muzzle flash hider CTN ,,,I'm going to do a video on this subject and let them know your my researched information,,,if thats OK,,,,,LMMFAO
Your absolutely right but unless your running a lot of full auto it will take a long time that most people will never see. I actually have a LMT MRP 10.5 that I run the break on it with my Surefire Socom MG. I took it off cause I like also running it non suppressed. There are some cans out there with a shit ton off rounds through them that are ok. If I was running full auto a lot I’d probably run my break.
Curious as to how a lantac dragon would be. It’s primarily a muzzle brake but has a small three prong towards the end that can also be used as a striking device. It does functionally work more like a muzzle brake and still has flash, even if that end not being flat tries to mitigate it somewhat. I run it on my form 1 and perhaps I was just lucky to put enough space but I do not see any discoloration or any distinctive mark to where the prongs are. I guess the muzzle brake ports of the lantac dragon already dispersed most of the pressure as the sacrificial baffle in the blast chamber side so there’s not much to go towards the muzzle prong end to the first baffle stack.
So in short, depending on your priorities.. Longevity: - Brake - CTFH - Warcomp - 3/4 prong FH For sound suppression quality and minimal backblast, directly inverse the same list. So do you want maximum longevity at the cost of effectiveness or maximum effectiveness at the cost of longevity? Only you can decide.
@@petersusia1 No sure if anyone in real life will actually shoot enough for this to matter. I mean Garand Thumb put 80k rounds through his RC and it's fine.
So the Thing is - If you are constant running a Can the best Muzzledevices are these with the Labyrinth Seals . To be fair - in Austria we cant have a Can axcept with an Hunting Licenz or special purpose Papers. But i run most my training indoor and so i have a Warden . With an Warcomp it comes really bad Carbon back and build up a Hill of Carbon on the Frontside of my DD Ris2 ! I dont give a f... of the look because a Rifle is a Tool but what if when the Carbon Hill gets bigger and bigger ? Maybe i cant rotate the Warden/RC Clamp enough back to dismount ??? Also the Thing is - If there is a Gasleak - there is also a Sound Leak ! So if you run a Can - you should use a Muzzle Device with the Labyrinth Seals ! I get your point with the Lifetime of the Can but like i sayed - ia do not have a Can but is a fact that the Muzzle Device should be leakfree . I switched to a normal 3 Prong wich is sure not the best for long life for the Can but it have the Labyrinth Poetry . Best Greetings from Austria .
It was a gift on top of that. From one of my best friends in the universe. I'm sbr'ing a MARS once one gets in stock to do this LMT build justice. Gonna run a comp M4s or M5s. Haven't decided yet.
I have a question that I haven't seen discussed before. Does using a muzzle brake vs a flash hider, in conjuction with a suppressor, increase flash signature to any measurable or noticeable degree? I'm currently using a Surefire muzzle brake with a Surefire Socom556 RC2. I went with a brake to act as a sacrificial baffle. Saying this, flash signature reduction is my highest priority so I'm willing to switch it out for a flash hider if there's a noticeable difference.
No, bro. With an RC2 you should have the same flash signature with a 4 prong as a brake. However, given the flat head of the break, i'm not sure how it can be beaten with suppressor on.
Super helpful. Just purchased my first can (RC2) and beginning the wait. I think I'll probably get a CTN. Does it make a difference whether you get the WARCOMP CTN or just the regular one?
From what I was told the Labyrinth seals help with pressure bleeding out the back and help so it doesn’t get carbon locked. I have the 4 prong on my 10.3 URGI and am building a 14.5 URGI and can decided what muzzle device to use. I like the warcomps a lot Especially the CTN had one on a 10.5 everyone told Me to not use them with a suppressor. Almost just want to say screw it and get the muzzle break or the 4 prong
I spent a short time in the US ARMY before getting injured so many times, I had to be med-boarded out. I wanted to ask a question? When I was shooting the rifle I can not afford and build LR-308 rifles to mimic the everything it's about! "LWRC R.E.P.R. II" or "S.A.S.S." these rifles had the Surefire SOCOM muzzle brake w/t the married suppressor. My question is The flash hider? Of all the rounds sent down range I never understood how the configuration of the vents and weather it was open or closed, how does it hide the flash or the second shot hider? Lord knows that sometimes the first shot/flash was never hidden. The science of how it works, all my rifles now have a Surefire SOCOM muzzle brake because I'm a can guy and love my hearing and plan on having it for the rest of my life. The muzzle brake is easy to understand, the percussion is diverted to the left & right and slightly to the rear to help steady for a follow up shot. But the flash hider I truly never understood the workings of the flash hiding effect? I build bullet's match grade bullet's for my LR-308, 20"22" & 24" and AR-15, 20" 77gr... These bullet's I'm building, I'm making them to burn all the powder before the projectile leaves the barrel, so the flash should be dissipated, but not always the case!...
Hey brother I know this is a older video, but this helped explain things a lot. Do you have any experience with YHM muzzle devices / suppressors by chance? Anything I should look out for / expect?
What about the fact that the Warcomp’s open and closed both do not have labyrinth seals? I guess that could be a different subject but I know or read the warcomps are more prone to carbon lock and are a couple db’s louder (according to pewpewscience) I have 3 Warcomps and just bought the muzzle break for my newest AR after hearing about the whole labyrinth seal thing. I’m still waiting on my rc2 but I was lead to believe the muzzle break and then 3 prong flash hider were best but again I think you are talking about longevity and not carbon lock and possible db reduction. I’m curious if you have any thoughts about this though.
The CTN and the warcomp all allow for access gas bleed out the back of the suppressor, pewpew tactical did a article on it and the labyrinth cuts in the muzzle device help better seal the can. If you have a dedicated suppressor gun run a muzzle brake, if you have a general purpose rifle run a flash hider. If you loose 1000 rounds in the longevity department than oh well
@@navyman8903 now my question for you would be how bad is the muzzle brake on a 12.5 in low light and in a team environment. Like Ik its not going to be winning me any friends but since I do run my can pretty much all the time I do agree with you that the longevity is a factor.
@@1GruntZPOV I mean a brake on anything isn't winning any popularity contests, let alone in low light. The 4 prong is probably your best bet. Unless you want to deal with the ring of the 3 prong.
@@navyman8903 just currently rocking a 3 prong on my 12.5, and it’s my “duty” setup, which is why I didn’t want to throw a brake on it, but now that I have the can, and shoot mostly suppressed I’d like to save the suppressor. However if the precentage is like 5-6% longer than it’s not really to big of an issue, by the time I hit that number where it would matter the rifle will have been rebarrelled maybe twice. Get it recorded and go back to work. If it’s a huge percentage than I’ll just leave the can on and never shoot it unsuppressed unless I have to.
@@1GruntZPOV which is fair. Not everyone is going to hit the half life of their suppressor let alone kill it by maxing it out. But I just like to try to keep them as nice as I can for as long as I can. Which I'm sure you're in that boat too.
Even baffle strikes don't destroy them lol. It's meant for that from welding and you send it back they swap your insides and attach your tube. But if seen a baffle strike destroy the end cap. But everything with sf is meant for destruction I was surprised u can shoot off a socom and no strikes. Where can you learn information about SF baffle stacking. Towards the front the baffles are closer then towards the collar. I think that helps with flash and a few other things
I would think the longer the barrel length, the less of an issue this would be. I suspect a 3 prong Warcomp on a 16" would not appreciably reduce the life of the suppressor. Also, the heavier the bullet the more this should be mitigated.
So im looking into getting a can for my 14.5 urgi and also 16inch superduty. I really can only afford one can. I was thinking about getting the 762 mini surefire can. Mostly because i want to build a .308 rifle and possibly a shorty 300 blackout. Whats your thoughts on going this route?
Just running into these issues after getting about 1,200 rounds through my rc2. Lives on a 11.5 sbr, I have the regular Closed time flash hider. Will that work? Been using 3 prong flash hider since day 1…
Since you’re practically the only one I’ve seen with a 4 prong, 3 prong, and warcomp closed tine… which one have you seen actually reduce the most muzzle flash at night? If you’ve had experience with the regular surefire closed tine and 3 prong warcomp same question applies. Basically looking for who’s the best at hiding flash and still suppressor adaptable.
4 prong the best followed by 3 prong and CT last Draw back with 3 prong and 4 prong kinda easy to get debri in muzzle device compared to CTN. But flash reduction is excellent !
@navyman8903 I have a question that I haven't seen discussed before. Does using a muzzle brake vs a flash hider, in conjuction with a suppressor, increase flash signature to any measurable or noticeable degree? I'm currently using a Surefire muzzle brake with a Surefire Socom556 RC2. I went with a brake to act as a sacrificial baffle. Saying this, flash signature reduction is my highest priority so I'm willing to switch it out for a flash hider if there's a noticeable difference.
So what about the standard closed tine, “non-warcomp”? I will be running a full size RC 2762 on my 11. 5CQB. I have the Spring Co blue spring and KAC carbine buffer. I hope I didn’t go overboard on getting the full size RC2?… it’s heavy and long fuuuuck. I just wanted a general purpose suppressor to run on pretty much everything.
I would go with the closed tine flash hider, though it has some interactions with the RC3 and making flames with 55gr. So keep that in mind if you're not using an RC2, which doesn't have that problem.
Yooooo Me and my boy were just talking about this yesterday! What are your thoughts on the SOLGW NOX and baffle erosion, in the essence of what you put out in this video? It's like a comp and a flash hider put together and everyone told me to get it over the dead air brake lol
I’m assuming the same would apply for the closed tine flash hider? I mean the only difference is the 6 ports on top and the neck on the CTN warcomp is a MM or two longer. I have both and a MINI 2 on a 14.5. Just curious
Yeah I havent seen a CTN for my 300 blk yet but until I get my can, I guess it doesnt matter yet....I'll just keep running the standard Daniel Defense birdcage until I finally pony up the dough for a 300sps.
@@navyman8903 nice. Thanks for the quick response. It was tough trying to figure out which was the best option, but I think I made the right choice. For now ill be running the warden by surefire on it so im not an asshat at the range.
They're essentially the same. I really like the CTN on my 11.5 and my 16". I just got a 14.5 in with a CT flash hider, so I'll get back to you on that after some shooting.
@@navyman8903 yes, please do an update after getting some rounds down range. I've got the CTN WarComp on on my 11.5" and debating swapping for the CTN flash hider, and also debating which one for my 14.5" once BA Hanson barrels are back in production.
Hey can you tell me how you think the 300 baffles are like I heard they are more radial, a bit more gasy then but maybe they made slits in the baffles and not notches anyone know?
Seems that the warcomp is acutally the worst when it comes to suppressor use via the recent PEW Science report. The brake does act as a sacrifical baffle, but the 3P/4P seem to be the best muzzle device for Surefire suppressor use.
There's a minor increase in back pressure with the brake. Like 10% ish. But if you run a BCG for suppressed use you can mitigate it. But you might notice a slight increase.
@@navyman8903 baffles are a separate piece that is welded to the tube inside but yes, mine was re-cored around 50k rounds and all it cost was shipping to surefire.
That just looks like carbon build up that made that clover design. Did you actually see a can look like this before it failed? Just clean off the carbon and move on I don’t think that what you’re seeing is actually causing damage. I’d stay with the 4 prong.
Ehh a suppressor from surefire are known to last over 100,000 rounds. No one will be spending that much money on ammo to care about replacing the suppressor.
The muzzle brake being the sacrificial baffle in a suppressor is common knowledge on Form1 forums. Im kind of suprised its not widely understood and implemented throughout the suppressor community.
I could definitely see this on a 10.3-13.7 that burning gun powder is like a plasma cutter on anything it hits.
I will keep this in mind for the 11.5 pistol I have planned. Ill say I kind of hate the idea of shooting a muzzle brake on a 10.3 or 11.5 a lot. The ones Ive shot with an A2 birdcage were very concussive.
Data point:
Garand Thumb has 80k rounds through his gen I Socom suppressor. Shoot away folks, youre not gonna break your Socom RC2. Its full auto rated.
If muzzle flash w/o the can is a concern the keep the ctn fh/warcomp.
Good video
I have 2 CTN Warcomps. I now feel as though they will get me kilt in da streetz
Lol.
Why is that? War comps both closed tn and 3 prong have out many bad guys down.
@@starxlord9856 he's worried about his flash signature.
Its pretty close to the 3 prong…like there is barely a flash at all. Quick, tiny, small. Alot of shots there are no flashes only matters at night. If your fighting urban or shtf at night it wont matter. If it does matter then you and the people your fighting are trained and have night vision. If they do…then again it wont matter. Plus the closed tine is better with a Can. Ive moved with a 3 prong through alot of terrain. You know whatll kill you? The fact that it grabs every branch and everything while your moving through the shit. CT is good. If you cant ever or dont ever plan on getting a can…get a 3 prong
So freaking thankful to have seen this!! Just purchased an RC2 and it's also my first can. Looks like I'll be getting CTN for the shorty, and a break for the recce now. Thank you for the knowledge!
Happy to help out where I can.
Great video man, your absolutely correct. The muzzle brake is also a little louder suppressed. The 3 prong suppressed on a URGI is almost hearing safe but the Surefire MB suppressed is like a non-suppressed 22 pistol. Kinda sucks because you cant really shoot the rifle non-suppressed without over-pressure from the brake. Its painful even with ear pro. Thanks for touching on this topic. The first baffle on my RC2 is clover leaved from the FH after a 1000 rds.
wdym clover leaved? do u like the muzzle of flashider better for dedicated suppressed?
@@austingash1363 There is a clover leaf shape from the 3 prong FH sand blasted into the first baffle of the suppressor. Eventually it will erode the first baffle of the can but it is a little quieter with the flash hider suppressed over the muzzle brake suppressed. However; the muzzle brake will act as a sacrificial baffle for dedicated suppressed prolonging the life of the can.
@fmxmyway I have a question that I haven't seen discussed before. Does using a muzzle brake vs a flash hider, in conjuction with a suppressor, increase flash signature to any measurable or noticeable degree? I'm currently using a Surefire muzzle brake with a Surefire Socom556 RC2. I went with a brake to act as a sacrificial baffle. Saying this, flash signature reduction is my highest priority so I'm willing to switch it out for a flash hider if there's a noticeable difference.
@@YippeeKiYayMrFalcon I noticed it so I switched from the MB to the FH in conjunction with my RC2. That style can knows when it’s wearing a MB despite the labyrinth seal because sparks will come out the back of the suppressor as the flash is going out the sides. The FH directs everything towards the baffles allowing them to eat all the pressure. However; after 600 rds I had a noticeable clover leaf sand blasted into the first baffle but that’s the suppressor doing it’s job as it is a disposable item. The sacrificial baffle of the MB will prolong the life of the can but not necessarily the performance of flash mitigation and decibel reduction.
@@fmxmyway @fmxmyway wow, ok. I really appreciate your input! I may need to reconsider using the muzzle brake then.. I'm also a bit surprised that I haven't seen this topic discussed before.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge. CTNs for all!
Happy to help.
I've watched this 3 or 4 times and finally got it figured out.
I am still at a bit of conundrum on this one
Care to translate?
Thank you for this video, just got an RC 2 and went with the closed tine warcomp and then saw there’s all this information saying they were bad for the can and all around poor
I’ve always liked the CT warcomp better than the 3 prong and now you give me a reason to justify it over the regular warcomp!🤯🔫👍🏼
I really appreciated this video, I actually learned something new and thank you.
Happy to help bro. Also.......eyeballing that M9A3 as soon as one comes back in stock. The WC 92G Centurion at the LGS sold much to my dismay. They do have a 92X competition or whatever there which I don't need at all................BUT I WANT IT. Feels perfect.
@@navyman8903 i just got the 92X Centurion, I absolutely love it and I really the 92X competition model so bad!
Great information brother. It's amazing how different the firearms acts when you add a can.
I seen someone shoot a USP Tactical with a huge can on the gun, the frame cracked and he blamed the manufacture. He shot the firearm with a can not approved for the gun and never checked or changed the recoil spring after shooting 20k of suppressed.
This video was exactly what I was looking for thanks!
Interesting...if you talk to the guys at SureFire, they recommend almost the exact opposite. That the standard 3/4-prong flash hiders are the best for dedicated suppressor platforms.
Interesting.
I think I’ll call them. If what you say is true it’s counterintuitive - for blast baffle life.
@@WDLC1911 What did you find out? Thinking about getting a can. Really don't want to switch out my warcomps (run them on almost everything); I love them so much.
@@ChooChoo_4u I was told that a muzzle brake would supply more protection but their three prong muzzle devices are just fine. A closed tine would also protect the blast baffle a little better than the three prong devices but all are fine.
So, if you’re going to occasionally shoot without the suppressor a closed tine muzzle device is probably the way.
@@WDLC1911 Sounds good. Thanks for the reply, appreciate the info.
@@ChooChoo_4u, you’re welcome.
Just got into these brakes and the RC2 as of a few days ago. Seeing this, I think what I'll wind up doing is using my 3 prong on a rifle where the can is OPTIONAL, and get the CTN for my bull pup which will see the can much more. I like the 3 prong for what it offers outside of the can, but it's on a rifle that only want the occasional capability of running the new suppressor.
I went with the SureFire Warcomp CTN on my 16” M4. Thanks for your info !
Found your video after seeing the pew science review detailing diminished suppressor performance when running the 3 tine war comp vs 3 tine flash hider. The indication from the article and supported by Surefire was that this was due to the lack of seals on the warcomp. Wondering if you have noticed the suppression being better with the brake or 3 prong flash hider than the ctn since the ctn also lacks those seals. Thanks
The Muzzle brake seems to be the best out of what I have. Followed by the 4 prong. But the CTN's don't have the seal the previous 2 do as you stated.
those "labyrinth seals" are key to directing the gas pressure. he is correct about the "sacrificial baffle". Comps are great if you don't EVER take your can off. There is a reason the Sopmod program sticks with the 4 and 3 prong though
Yes you are correct! They do not recommend warcomp as highly as the 4 prong 3 prong or muzzle brake due to carbon lock if you really run your gun and dont have lots of opportunity for often removal and attention. 4 prong, muzzle brake then 3 prong for on and off. Rated decidble rating in testing was minimal difference if i remember correctly it was2 dB difference. I think it was 135 for 4 prong and 137 for muzzle brake with rc2 and 14.5 barrel. I will see if I can find the article and pin
Coach Grandpa here,,,Dang I have three prongs on all my AR15's,,I thought that made me the king of the jungle,,,,My SOCOM556 RC2 suppressor lives on the MK18 though,,,I'll need to watch for this thanks,,I guess I need to order a new muzzle flash hider CTN ,,,I'm going to do a video on this subject and let them know your my researched information,,,if thats OK,,,,,LMMFAO
Your absolutely right but unless your running a lot of full auto it will take a long time that most people will never see. I actually have a LMT MRP 10.5 that I run the break on it with my Surefire Socom MG. I took it off cause I like also running it non suppressed. There are some cans out there with a shit ton off rounds through them that are ok. If I was running full auto a lot I’d probably run my break.
Sweet I got a Surefire muzzle break for my rc2, don’t got my can yet though
Curious as to how a lantac dragon would be. It’s primarily a muzzle brake but has a small three prong towards the end that can also be used as a striking device. It does functionally work more like a muzzle brake and still has flash, even if that end not being flat tries to mitigate it somewhat.
I run it on my form 1 and perhaps I was just lucky to put enough space but I do not see any discoloration or any distinctive mark to where the prongs are. I guess the muzzle brake ports of the lantac dragon already dispersed most of the pressure as the sacrificial baffle in the blast chamber side so there’s not much to go towards the muzzle prong end to the first baffle stack.
A Lantac dragon would act like a brake and sacrificial baffle for sure. It’s 99% muzzle brake 1% flash hider lol
So in short, depending on your priorities..
Longevity:
- Brake
- CTFH
- Warcomp
- 3/4 prong FH
For sound suppression quality and minimal backblast, directly inverse the same list.
So do you want maximum longevity at the cost of effectiveness or maximum effectiveness at the cost of longevity?
Only you can decide.
This was a reason years ago we changed to the brake on all our dedicated MK18s
Sucks to shoot next to your teammate, but lots of benefits with the surefire muzzle brake.
@@navyman8903 Majority of the work is with RC2. Dedicated makes more sense, but yeah its a blast for sure
So does this mean warcomp cause pre mature can failure as opposed to breaks or ctn?
@@petersusia1 No sure if anyone in real life will actually shoot enough for this to matter. I mean Garand Thumb put 80k rounds through his RC and it's fine.
I shoot a lot. Almost all suppressed. Think I should pull warcomp for fh?
So the Thing is - If you are constant running a Can the best Muzzledevices are these with the Labyrinth Seals . To be fair - in Austria we cant have a Can axcept with an Hunting Licenz or special purpose Papers. But i run most my training indoor and so i have a Warden . With an Warcomp it comes really bad Carbon back and build up a Hill of Carbon on the Frontside of my DD Ris2 ! I dont give a f... of the look because a Rifle is a Tool but what if when the Carbon Hill gets bigger and bigger ? Maybe i cant rotate the Warden/RC Clamp enough back to dismount ??? Also the Thing is - If there is a Gasleak - there is also a Sound Leak ! So if you run a Can - you should use a Muzzle Device with the Labyrinth Seals ! I get your point with the Lifetime of the Can but like i sayed - ia do not have a Can but is a fact that the Muzzle Device should be leakfree . I switched to a normal 3 Prong wich is sure not the best for long life for the Can but it have the Labyrinth Poetry . Best Greetings from Austria .
damn this guy is flexing hard on the lmt upper
It was a gift on top of that. From one of my best friends in the universe. I'm sbr'ing a MARS once one gets in stock to do this LMT build justice. Gonna run a comp M4s or M5s. Haven't decided yet.
@@navyman8903 M5 is pretty hot on an LMT
Great video as always keep it up 👍🏿
Thanks I appreciate it.
P.S. never hate any one trying to help make choices easier to understand, lots of love, in a brotherhood way!!!
I have a question that I haven't seen discussed before. Does using a muzzle brake vs a flash hider, in conjuction with a suppressor, increase flash signature to any measurable or noticeable degree? I'm currently using a Surefire muzzle brake with a Surefire Socom556 RC2. I went with a brake to act as a sacrificial baffle. Saying this, flash signature reduction is my highest priority so I'm willing to switch it out for a flash hider if there's a noticeable difference.
No, bro. With an RC2 you should have the same flash signature with a 4 prong as a brake. However, given the flat head of the break, i'm not sure how it can be beaten with suppressor on.
Super helpful. Just purchased my first can (RC2) and beginning the wait. I think I'll probably get a CTN. Does it make a difference whether you get the WARCOMP CTN or just the regular one?
CTN for suppressor use. Skip the warcomp
Thanks again. You are making very narrow content and it’s exactly what I needed
With the suppressor on. Is there a difference in sound suppresson between the different muzzle devices? Volume, tone etc.
I'm wondering this too
From what I was told the Labyrinth seals help with pressure bleeding out the back and help so it doesn’t get carbon locked. I have the 4 prong on my 10.3 URGI and am building a 14.5 URGI and can decided what muzzle device to use. I like the warcomps a lot Especially the CTN had one on a 10.5 everyone told
Me to not use them with a suppressor. Almost just want to say screw it and get the muzzle break or the 4 prong
That is just be abuse they are prone to carbon lock if you really run your gear for longer periods of time without cleaning.
I spent a short time in the US ARMY before getting injured so many times, I had to be med-boarded out.
I wanted to ask a question?
When I was shooting the rifle I can not afford and build LR-308 rifles to mimic the everything it's about! "LWRC R.E.P.R. II" or "S.A.S.S." these rifles had the Surefire SOCOM muzzle brake w/t the married suppressor.
My question is The flash hider? Of all the rounds sent down range I never understood how the configuration of the vents and weather it was open or closed, how does it hide the flash or the second shot hider? Lord knows that sometimes the first shot/flash was never hidden. The science of how it works, all my rifles now have a Surefire SOCOM muzzle brake because I'm a can guy and love my hearing and plan on having it for the rest of my life. The muzzle brake is easy to understand, the percussion is diverted to the left & right and slightly to the rear to help steady for a follow up shot. But the flash hider I truly never understood the workings of the flash hiding effect?
I build bullet's match grade bullet's for my LR-308, 20"22" & 24" and AR-15, 20" 77gr...
These bullet's I'm building, I'm making them to burn all the powder before the projectile leaves the barrel, so the flash should be dissipated, but not always the case!...
Hey brother I know this is a older video, but this helped explain things a lot. Do you have any experience with YHM muzzle devices / suppressors by chance? Anything I should look out for / expect?
I do not brother. I know some guys love them but I haven't used any of their stuff. Let me ask around a bit.
@navyman8903 thank you very much dude 🙏 I hold your opinions to a high regard
Liking the vintage channel name.
Thanks man. Had to bring it back. I realized I've been doing this shit since 2009. That's insane to me, time flies.
What about the fact that the Warcomp’s open and closed both do not have labyrinth seals? I guess that could be a different subject but I know or read the warcomps are more prone to carbon lock and are a couple db’s louder (according to pewpewscience) I have 3 Warcomps and just bought the muzzle break for my newest AR after hearing about the whole labyrinth seal thing. I’m still waiting on my rc2 but I was lead to believe the muzzle break and then 3 prong flash hider were best but again I think you are talking about longevity and not carbon lock and possible db reduction. I’m curious if you have any thoughts about this though.
Knowledge gap indeed. I thought everyone knew that brakes were sacrificial baffles
Once I learned it I thought people did too, but "experts" on some forums still didn't know. IT blew me away. Not that it's THAT serious. But still.
Do a review of that LMT MRP upper. Show the barrel change too. The owner says its cool.
I will big boy, see you soon.
You are not wrong, but Papa Thumb has a video on the first Socom can and it has more rounds through it than most can shoot in their life lol.
The CTN and the warcomp all allow for access gas bleed out the back of the suppressor, pewpew tactical did a article on it and the labyrinth cuts in the muzzle device help better seal the can. If you have a dedicated suppressor gun run a muzzle brake, if you have a general purpose rifle run a flash hider. If you loose 1000 rounds in the longevity department than oh well
IT's more of a percentage of the service live not just 1000 rounds, but most people won't hit that threshold anyway.
@@navyman8903 now my question for you would be how bad is the muzzle brake on a 12.5 in low light and in a team environment. Like Ik its not going to be winning me any friends but since I do run my can pretty much all the time I do agree with you that the longevity is a factor.
@@1GruntZPOV I mean a brake on anything isn't winning any popularity contests, let alone in low light. The 4 prong is probably your best bet. Unless you want to deal with the ring of the 3 prong.
@@navyman8903 just currently rocking a 3 prong on my 12.5, and it’s my “duty” setup, which is why I didn’t want to throw a brake on it, but now that I have the can, and shoot mostly suppressed I’d like to save the suppressor. However if the precentage is like 5-6% longer than it’s not really to big of an issue, by the time I hit that number where it would matter the rifle will have been rebarrelled maybe twice. Get it recorded and go back to work. If it’s a huge percentage than I’ll just leave the can on and never shoot it unsuppressed unless I have to.
@@1GruntZPOV which is fair. Not everyone is going to hit the half life of their suppressor let alone kill it by maxing it out. But I just like to try to keep them as nice as I can for as long as I can. Which I'm sure you're in that boat too.
Thanks to this video i will be swapping out my 3 prong war comp i just got fot the closed tine war comp
Maybe take a look at the flash hider if you haven't bought it yet, if you plan on running a suppressor.
@@navyman8903 ill be getting the closed tine non war comp as soon as the shop gets it in
Even baffle strikes don't destroy them lol. It's meant for that from welding and you send it back they swap your insides and attach your tube. But if seen a baffle strike destroy the end cap. But everything with sf is meant for destruction I was surprised u can shoot off a socom and no strikes. Where can you learn information about SF baffle stacking. Towards the front the baffles are closer then towards the collar. I think that helps with flash and a few other things
I would think the longer the barrel length, the less of an issue this would be. I suspect a 3 prong Warcomp on a 16" would not appreciably reduce the life of the suppressor. Also, the heavier the bullet the more this should be mitigated.
So im looking into getting a can for my 14.5 urgi and also 16inch superduty. I really can only afford one can. I was thinking about getting the 762 mini surefire can. Mostly because i want to build a .308 rifle and possibly a shorty 300 blackout. Whats your thoughts on going this route?
Just running into these issues after getting about 1,200 rounds through my rc2. Lives on a 11.5 sbr, I have the regular Closed time flash hider. Will that work? Been using 3 prong flash hider since day 1…
Since you’re practically the only one I’ve seen with a 4 prong, 3 prong, and warcomp closed tine… which one have you seen actually reduce the most muzzle flash at night? If you’ve had experience with the regular surefire closed tine and 3 prong warcomp same question applies. Basically looking for who’s the best at hiding flash and still suppressor adaptable.
I'm trying to get a video together on that specifically.
4 prong the best followed by 3 prong and CT last
Draw back with 3 prong and 4 prong kinda easy to get debri in muzzle device compared to CTN. But flash reduction is excellent !
@navyman8903 I have a question that I haven't seen discussed before. Does using a muzzle brake vs a flash hider, in conjuction with a suppressor, increase flash signature to any measurable or noticeable degree? I'm currently using a Surefire muzzle brake with a Surefire Socom556 RC2. I went with a brake to act as a sacrificial baffle. Saying this, flash signature reduction is my highest priority so I'm willing to switch it out for a flash hider if there's a noticeable difference.
So what about the standard closed tine, “non-warcomp”?
I will be running a full size RC 2762 on my 11. 5CQB.
I have the Spring Co blue spring and KAC carbine buffer.
I hope I didn’t go overboard on getting the full size RC2?… it’s heavy and long fuuuuck.
I just wanted a general purpose suppressor to run on pretty much everything.
have you seen the pew science review showing the warcomp leaks gas heavily when suppressed? makes the gun much louder at the ear, according to him
That's interesting I haven't heard that. I'll have to look into it.
Where can i find this video?
What is exactly the model of the closed one you said is best for RC2 longjevity?
I would go with the closed tine flash hider, though it has some interactions with the RC3 and making flames with 55gr. So keep that in mind if you're not using an RC2, which doesn't have that problem.
@navyman8903 Thank you. What would you recommend for RC3?
@@Ohkayechill 4 or 3 prong.
Yooooo Me and my boy were just talking about this yesterday! What are your thoughts on the SOLGW NOX and baffle erosion, in the essence of what you put out in this video? It's like a comp and a flash hider put together and everyone told me to get it over the dead air brake lol
I’m assuming the same would apply for the closed tine flash hider? I mean the only difference is the 6 ports on top and the neck on the CTN warcomp is a MM or two longer. I have both and a MINI 2 on a 14.5. Just curious
Yeah I havent seen a CTN for my 300 blk yet but until I get my can, I guess it doesnt matter yet....I'll just keep running the standard Daniel Defense birdcage until I finally pony up the dough for a 300sps.
Could have had one by now
Not sure why you are so worried about destroying your can. After all that's why you went with surefire lol to each is own.
I went with a SFMB SOCOM. Was it a good choice? I plan to go suppressed once I go to a free state. Thoughts?
Oh absolutely, you'll be solid.
@@navyman8903 nice. Thanks for the quick response. It was tough trying to figure out which was the best option, but I think I made the right choice. For now ill be running the warden by surefire on it so im not an asshat at the range.
What are your thoughts on the CT WarComp vs the CT flash hider on 11.5s and 14.5s?
They're essentially the same. I really like the CTN on my 11.5 and my 16". I just got a 14.5 in with a CT flash hider, so I'll get back to you on that after some shooting.
@@navyman8903 yes, please do an update after getting some rounds down range. I've got the CTN WarComp on on my 11.5" and debating swapping for the CTN flash hider, and also debating which one for my 14.5" once BA Hanson barrels are back in production.
How much longer could this prolong suppressor baffle life. Like from 100k to 200k
on an 11.5, which would be best for flash reduction? brake or 4 prong?
that LMT though
More to follow on that once I get this MARS lower and form 1 it.
Hey can you tell me how you think the 300 baffles are like I heard they are more radial, a bit more gasy then but maybe they made slits in the baffles and not notches anyone know?
Does Surefire make a CTN MD for .308? (using for 300BLK) 5/8-24 pitch
No sadly. I want one for my MR762. Because I hate the 3 prong.
@@navyman8903 I figured that might be the case. Brake it is. Thanks for the reply, great video!
I didn't know that good info thankyou.
Seems that the warcomp is acutally the worst when it comes to suppressor use via the recent PEW Science report. The brake does act as a sacrifical baffle, but the 3P/4P seem to be the best muzzle device for Surefire suppressor use.
When referring to the seal yes. Which is what they were most concerned about. The muzzle brake also has some added back pressure.
@@navyman8903 Good point.
Thank you!
Thank you too.
What forearm is that with the CTN?
Geissele MK13 rail.
How’s the face gas with the brake when sporting the RC2?
There's a minor increase in back pressure with the brake. Like 10% ish. But if you run a BCG for suppressed use you can mitigate it. But you might notice a slight increase.
@@navyman8903 interesting… I know Haley is a fan of brakes, even one something as short as an 11.5
With a brake your eroding the can tube which is the serialized and not replaceable part.
Can they replace the baffles on the surefire? I thought it was all one piece.
@@navyman8903 baffles are a separate piece that is welded to the tube inside but yes, mine was re-cored around 50k rounds and all it cost was shipping to surefire.
@@ashlandgunclub1000 Interesting, I didn't know that. I wish you commented before I posted my most recent video lol.
@@ashlandgunclub1000 They recored it for free? I’ve heard it was like $600.
Thanks!
If you're not first, you're last. 😆
Muzzle breaks are terrible. You ever have to shoot it without a suppressor you will blow out your ears or teams ears.
I’d rather have the can recored and run a FH.
That just looks like carbon build up that made that clover design. Did you actually see a can look like this before it failed? Just clean off the carbon and move on I don’t think that what you’re seeing is actually causing damage. I’d stay with the 4 prong.
Lol pound town. Probably a nice place to visit but not live.
Ehh a suppressor from surefire are known to last over 100,000 rounds. No one will be spending that much money on ammo to care about replacing the suppressor.