The Rules of Warfare | The Great Convention & Kanly | Dune Lore Explained
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- Опубліковано 22 тра 2023
- A discussion of the rules governing technology and warfare, and how they shaped the battles between the great houses of the Imperium. Spoiler warning if you are unfamiliar with Frank Herbert’s Dune. Frank Herbert’s Dune explores mankind’s distant future and the evolution of its political, commercial and social institutions throughout the ages. Within the captivating narrative of the Dune saga, a vast Interstellar Empire stands liberated from self-imposed enslavement to machines and artificial intelligence. It is now propelled by the pursuit of expanding human potential and capabilities. Following the devastating machine crusade, the governing forces of the Imperium deemed it essential to establish a series of laws through the Great Convention treaty, with the primary objective of preserving humanity and shielding the populace from the perils of any future conflicts that could bring about mass destruction.
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I like when writters put swords and sabers in their SF universes. But it is mostly for style and epicness. Herbert, in the other hand, does it out of reflexion and logic, due to technological and political evolutions in his universe. Deep thinking, very impressive.
Here is my theory: he wants swords in space and then realizes he fucked up and spends 20 years to write a complex universe to justify it.
@@CoNteMpTone as far as I know, he didn't wanted any computer, or high-tech stuff of any kind, because he wanted to work only on character development and human relations, not wasting pages and pages to speak about "how this technological stuff works". So he had to invent a lot of excuses to justify his choice, some of them making his novels and universe very unique. Swords and daggers are one of these.
I have a Buttcrack Theory
The Guild's obscenely high premium placed on the transport of military forces also made large scale warfare impractical for even the great houses. The Harkonnen attack on Arrakis financially indebted House Harkonnen for generations. The Baron also had to pick up the cost of transporting the Sardaukar as part of the conditions for the Emperor loaning them to him. Had the destruction of House Atreides gone according to plan, most of the profits from being the primary Spice producing fief would've been absorbed in paying off the debt to the Guild. It was about 60 years, iirc.
Warfare. Expensive business in the time of the Imperium.
Great video again Elaine! Like the Spice, your videos must continue to flow.
Don't remember that from books but it sounds right
War never changes just the equipment/methods used
One might say a difference of equipment or methods used. Is in fact a change.
🖖🏻🖖🏻
@@JB-1138 touché 👍
One of the things I always enjoyed about Dune are the knife duels. It’s a visceral form of combat that you would normally not expect from technologically advanced civilizations
There is another universe where a faction uses sabres 🤔
Yeah it is pretty cool super technologically-advanced but when it comes to combat they've just gone full circle back to sword/knife fights lol! And there's just more to fighting close up hand to hand, knife to knife in order to get all-around better at it than combat via projectile weapons imo. Using your body is always harder and less of a cop out then using any sort of machine construct for most of the combat heavy lifting. Almost seems like symbolism for the thinking machine fiasco 😅
That’s kinda what happens when you create personal shields that repeal anything moving too fast. And let alone triggering a nuclear explosion when a laser hits it 😂😂
@@jaythekid4728 I understand the in story reasonings behind the knife duels. No need for sarcasm
Actually I find the contrived knife-wielding combat of Dune to be one of its weakest points. Seriously, the future of warfare is always going to be ranged weapons. The nuclear explosions from Holtzman field-laser interactions is utterly stupid and easily exploitable. A remote-operated lasgun mounted on a suicide drone firing on a mass of shielded troops equals instant victory. Since the drone gets destroyed in the process, you have perfectly plausible deniability. Pretty soon the supposed imperial prohibition against atomics becomes all but meaningless as usage of this tactic becomes more and more tempting and more and more widespread. And TBH, FH didn't even have to invent this stupid contrivance in the first place. Warfare is a constant competition of sword vs shield. Sometimes the sword is stronger (e.g. Javelins vs T-72s right now), and sometimes the shield has the upper hand. The Dune universe could easily have been set in a time when the shield is stronger (at least at the moment). Lasguns could have been described as simply being unable to penetrate the existing shield technology of the time. Voila, the same effect is achieved and sword/knife-fighting becomes important again.
Can't wait for the Kanly scene between House Harkonnen and Atreides:)
It seems to me that the best way for one house to utterly destroy a rival would be to stage a false flag atomic attack on either one of their own cities or that of a third party.
I don't know if that would work... Already we have the tech to analyze a nuclear bomb's fuel and be able to detect what nuclear facility it was made at... I guess each facility has it's own unique signature. Currently, there is research going into analyzing nuclear debris in the hopes of being able to make that same determination. For example, if someone set off a backpack nuke in the middle of Paris, it might be good to know who enriched that fuel, and potentially supplied the material to a terrorist group. This is tech that I would expect the Dune universe would have. Or, you know, if the number of nukes with each house is known, demanding everybody pony up and show their cards: "which one of y'all is missing a nuke?"
It would definitely be a high-risk/high-reward move. You get found out and it's your House that's getting annihilated, which is what I imagine stayed even the most blood thirsty house's hands.
then everyone dies
I know it wasn't using atomics AND it was in the highly disregarded prequels Brian wrote, the Harkonnens broke the convention using their first no-ship to attempt to frame Duke Leto by attacking Tleilaxu in a Guild Heighliner and even that failed....though that was a lot of luck Leto had on his side...
You also have to consider the transportation problem. If you want to launch a nuclear assault on an enemy in the Landsraad, you must first pay The Spacing Guild for a ride on a Heighliner. And then, the Guild will probably start asking questions if, say, House Atreides listed "a whole lot of nuclear bombs. Signed, Totally not Baron Vladimir" on the manifest of a shipment to Giedi Prime.
@@thomriley1036 Maybe. Not sure how hard it would be to sneak a suitcase nuke onboard though.
But I guess the hardest test would be the truthsayers who would conduct an investigation.
I was hoping you would do one on this. Thanx.
as flawed as the prequels were, i appreciated how much they talked about the great convention and especially the use of atomics. as well as alot of insight on how Shaddam thinks and his sense that he is even above the rule of the Great Convention and how he feels restricted and inconvenienced by such laws.
Yet another fantastic video on Dune lore. I’ve always prided myself on knowing a huge amount about the Dune universe. Overtime there’s been a few things where I’ve thought, “I don’t think she’s right on that“. So I go re-read one of the books and sure enough you had it right all along.
Thank you for such great analysis and insight into, in my personal view, one of the greatest literary works of the modern era.
Thanks for your kind words and support! 🙏
This channel and Quinn’s ideas are like my two pillars of science fiction lore.
The forms must be obeyed
As a Turkish social researcher, Kanly, which is Kanlı where Frank Herbert references is a long lasting kill hunt which is called as "Kan Davası" which is a blood rival.
this theme, of orgamized war by limiting WMDs, has always lead to new innovations to sneak around them or devolve to base savagery.
The destruction of House Ginaz was necessary for the Emperor to remain securely on the Golden Lion Throne. Any House, Great or Minor, that had approached the quality of soldier equal to the Sardukar would be a rival to the throne. By aligning with House Ginaz, Duke Leto Atreides doomed his house to the same fate. And his rival, the Baron Vladimir Harkkonen - in a very influential position because of his monopoly on Melange Harvesting - needed to do very little to convince the Emperor to put House Atreidies to the sword as well.
A
The brilliant use of these rules make for a more interesting story, weapons of mass destruction would make for a brief and anticlimactic end of the conflict between factions. Warfare is more personal and intellectual in this world than many other sci-fi stories.
Yeah I'm guessing the concept of kanly and the great convention will be difficult to explain in the film, without dropping some exposition. There was no explanation of Mentats either, which I found odd too. It's going to be a long wait till part 2!
Saw this pop up in my feed at work. This is a really good video and you covered the subject very well. Thanks.
I just finished the whole series. Was so good. Love your videos about this amazing story.
You can’t deny that even with the level of technology they have they instead choose to use swords to fight each other. It is certainly an honourable way to kill and fight each other.
Awesome! I never thought about the fact that since Paul opened the door of atomic use withe the blasting of the wall. It led directly to the stoneburner use that (REDACTED) him.
Awesome!!!!! Thanks Nerd Cookeies :)
Great show as always 👍
I suspect with every DUNE lore vid you post, your giddiness for its soon premier increases day by day ;)
Well done! As always. Thank you.
Good video. The stone burner was such an unusual event that it caught even Paul by surprise. The Great Convention was well on it's way to being irrelevant. Of course, the God Emperor threw all that out the window.
Oh he knew long before he was blinded but to avoid it he would have set into motion things he couldn't or didn't want to face. Kind of a heads you win tails I lose choice.
Love your videos keep it up !
The art in this video is amazing.
I cant get past the thought that the guy on the right of the first image looks like Tracy Morgan !!! Great video as always, thanks for sharing 🙂
Superb, as always
Great script as always!!
Best Dune themed channel on UA-cam
Yayyyy!!!! Lunchtime Dune Cookies!!!
Awesome 🤩🤩🤩
It's really interesting to compare/contrast all these different fictional settings through the eyes of an adult. It's obvious to me now that so much has been borrowed or plundered from Dune. RA Salvatore's Dark Elf books are clearly just Dune plugged into D&D, if the characters were all cave Fremen and every House was Harkonnen. The Drow have the same rules of semi-civil warfare, are ruled by a matriarchal church and even use the Atreides sign language.
I didn't realize that comparison, though I have read both Dune and the works of RA Salvatore. Another comparison you may or may not know about, is the Honored Matres from the later Dune novels were the direct inspiration for the Sith factions behavior and philosophies and practices from Star Wars. Like the Sith, the HM believe in "Rule of the Strongest" and advancement is obtained primarily through orchestrating the death of ones direct superior. People are tools to be exploited and discarded, never valued for anything beyond what pragmatic utility they can provide. Brutality and cruelty are perfectly acceptable, as those too weak to prevent their own mistreatment are beneath consideration.
@@thundercricket4634 If you watch the deleted scenes from Star Wars (1977), Luke's nickname is "Wormy". He lives on a moisture farm near the edge of the Dune sea, is visited by Sandcrawlers and hitches a ride from a Spice Smuggler to rescue his royal twin sister from whom he was separated...
[Many hours later]
...and that is why Kathleen Kennedy is actually an Honored Matre.
The Drow/Druegar lol. Make the name a little more different from Dru, fellas, gees. FH was guilty a few times too though, Tleilaxu is just axlotl rearranged with different vowels
@@flannigan7956 The evil "Drow" elves and "Duergar" dwarves of Dungeons & Dragons are both named after mythic figures from European folklore.
"Drow/Trow" shares the same phonetic root as "Troll" and are often depicted as malevolent fairy spirits that dress in grey and dwell beneath the earth.
The depiction of D&D's Trolls and Dark Elves are inspired by creatures from the novel 'Three Hearts and Three Lions" by Poul Anderson, and you can actually visit the world of Caer Cidi through a magic portal in Module Q1: "Queen of the Demonweb Pits". Similarly, "Vecna" is an anagram of Vance, in reference to the author of the 'Dying Earth' series, Jack Vance.
"Duergar" is an alternate spelling of the Norse "Dvergr", which is related to both "Dwarves" and "Draugr", the latter you may recognize if you have ever played Skyrim.
Frank Herbert did just take the title "Spider Queen" and give it to his Honored Matres, but we won't dwell on that.
As for Axolotls, did you notice how Kyle MacLachlan (aka Paul Atredies in Dune (1984)) played a big role in that recent 'Fallout' tv series?
Fallout is known for making references to many other works of Sci-Fi. For instance, "Mentats" are a small red pill that increases human intelligence for a short time, and some characters can even use them to glimpse visions of the future.
In the Fallout show, Lucy and Maximus visit a creepy undergound vault where genetic experiments were conducted. At least one of those experiments involved women... giving birth... to Axolotls... in a tank...
@thomriley1036 nice, assuming those are good etymologies I can stand corrected, I'll of course default to Tolkien before the people that made D&D but that's great if they also used some real old words
These Dune videos are the best!
IMO, the punishment of having a planet obliterated runs counter to the idea of preserving life. Granted you need a severe enough consequence to keep ppl from violating the conventions. However it's the population of the offending planet that suffers.
Its not like they they have any say or power over their governments. And at at some point you're probably going to have to enforce it.
Love your videos
Thank you! ❤️
November 3rd, only a little than 5 months away
In retrospect, I think it might have been a misprint or typographical error,but when I first read the rule against AI in the copy of the Dune Encyclopaedia that came with my VHS copy of Dune (1984), it read "Thous shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a Human mind." When I first read that I thought that was written deliberately to imply all who read it and not a single reader.
Great content.
I am now 65. I could not put the fist 3 books down and have reread them all kanly slowly changes like all things The God emperor let’s man down his greedy path of self destruction only to end up surviving as cyber organizoms
Thanks, Elaine.
It is easy to call melee combat primitive, but it is in my opinion the only honorable way to engage in war. It forces you to ask yourself the question "Is whatever I am fighting for worth using my bare hands to kill a person?" While swords allow for a certain amount of stylization in ritualistic combat and a necessary expediency in highly-populated battlefields, personal duels to the death should be done bare-handed, unless both sides agree to the stipulation of blade or club. All thrown, projectile, or energetic weapons - including fire - are dishonorable in war. There must be physical connection between combatants.
Man, I love the worldbuilding of this series!
I’m a total noob when it comes to Dune I dabble in it, and your vids have helped me understand more about it. But I think this helps answer the question I had on why no one tried making something like an EMP weapon in regards to the personal shields. There’s more to it besides “getting an edge.”
Of course as was just mentioned, there’s some bending of the rules. Not too surprising as folks will try to get that edge as time passes. Just a matter of is it a hammer or a scalpel?
Do you use the term "Machine Crusade" because Jihad is one of UA-cam's no-no words? Or do you just like to mix it up sometimes? I actually didn't know that was the title of a Dune book until I just looked it up. Great video as always!
Yeah, I just like to change it up 😊
If you ever collab with Quinn for a narration it would be epic.
*guess settling disputes or royal hissy fits by the use of rock paper scissors just was not as effective as more aggressive tactics involving sharp pointy objects regardless of the rules employed by those who chose to follow them*
hi nerd cookie
Hello
@@NerdCookies I love ur channel n narration 🤭
What makes it realistic is that all the worldly idealism the convention demonstrates is still eroded over time as cultural mores shift and old lessons are lost to time. That said, I think it a bit surprising that the implicit MAD incentive of sorts in the convention wasn't enforced because in the end all systems of rules are really just interwoven incentives to try and regulate behavior.
Baron Vladimir Harkonnen is pretty much established as a liar and opportunist from the outset with Duke Leto's rejection of Baron Harkonnen's "peace gesture". "I have oft times met your treachery, and this, all men know!" the Duke replied. At the days and hours leading up to the attack on Arrakeen by Harkonnen forces (supported by Imperial Sardaukar), the Baron had "sworn" that he would try to secure innocents such as Lady Jessica and Paul from harm, and delegated the execution of his actual agenda to his minions (most notably Piter DeVries, and to some extent, his own nephew, Beast Rabban). This way, when confronted by a truthsayer during any possible assize of the outcome of the Harkonnen/Sardaukar attack on Arrakeen, the Baron could say he had nothing to do with any harms that befell the innocent. Dune is probably my all time favorite novel, and I have read it time and again. Combining it with my love for the movie/miniseries adaptations that followed, this universe is amazingly rich. I also tend to think that Frank Herbert's portrayal of The Great Convention was a commentary on the "No Nukes" movement.
Thanks!
Thank you for the support!!!
It seems like stone burners are not in the great convention. In messiah. But are in the later books . ( which makes sense).
The grest houses were allowed to use their arsenal in retaliation if they were attacked. Or to respond to a breach of the convention. . ( apparently the great houses had enough to destroy 50 planets) apparently the atreides emporer had enough to equal half the great houses. ( by children of Dune)
Actually stone burners are considered a grey area that paul touches on in the book after he's blinded
@elizabethjansen2684 agreed Elizabeth. In messiah earlier in the book, they discussed stone burners in the jihad and how they should be part of the convention . Then, in later books they is no grey area
I wondered why no one used the Las-gun/Shield reaction as an intentional attack by using a fanatic to annihilate the enemy. That explains it, thank you!
I wonder where the extra energy comes from, and the no-limits problem.
I.e. if the lasgun has a battery of 1 MegaJoule and the shield generator has a battery of 1 MegaJoule, then the maximum energy released in the explosion should be 2 MegaJoules. So a nuclear-style detonation, but not that big.
No-limits means a personal one-shot lasgun hitting a House shield (like the one seen in the 1984 movie) causes them both to explode. Or a personal shield being hit by a warship-grade lasgun will cause both to explode.
My personal ideas:
1) a lasgun is not a laser, but a cutting beam based on similar technology as the Holtzman shields.
2) when a lasgun and a shield interact, the explosion is more likely to be at the location of the smaller emitter. So a personal lasgun vs a House Shield will cause the personal lasgun to explode and the House shield to barely notice. Similar for personal shields vs warship-grade lasguns. if the two are of similar strength, then they both explode.
3) kinetic impacts vs a shield do use up its energy, but the energy storage for a shield is better than that of an assault rifle. So you might need 10 kg of ammunition to take down a 1 kg shield emitter. This
4) shield emitters can have varying capabilities. A high power limit shield means it can take individual larger impacts than a lower power shield (so it can handle multiple small hammer attacks, but a single sledgehammer attack will break it). A high-power shield emitter can recharge quickly, but might not be able to handle a single large impact. A high-energy shield can take a lot of hits before collapsing, but this does not affect its recharge rate. A high-battery shield emitter can last a long time, might be limited in how much energy is in the shield and how fast it can recharge. Larger and more expensive shields can have higher values in these areas (so Paul's personal shield might be 3-4 times as powerful as a regular foot solder's shield, and smaller too).
Duncan Idaho did. He set a trap where an automated lasgun fired on a shield to cover a retreat...Since everyone thought the Atreides were dead nothing came of it. And no one was worried about it when Paul showed back up because his Fremen were slaughtering anyone who spoke ill of the new emperor.
@@wyvvernstone I meant as a more widespread tactic rather than the one time it happened.
its not true. no accident was ever punished in the books. many accidents were on purpose.
One of the things they failed to explain in the new movie . I find that they were so obsessed with the estetic that the basic world setting was left unexplained. I saw many comments from people who could not understand why fight with swords in an age of space travel. I had to remember about the noble houses counsel and why no one expected the doctor to betray because they just didnt explain all these . Also mentats , no explanation .
Another thing that occurs to me concerning the Great Convention and the use of weapons of mass destruction. With Arrakis being the absolute sole source of the Spice Melange, it seems to me that the use of a Stone Burner in Arrakeen would be a topic of some intense debate on what consequences should be imposed. On the one hand, use of atomics against human populations was grounds for planetary annihilation, but on the other hand that consequence could not be applied to Arrakis for fear of compromising Spice production even after the wake of Paul-Muad'Dib's Jihad with the disbandment of the Sardaukar Corps, so other consequences would surely have to be considered.
We can make comparisons between Great Convention in Dune Universe with Conventions of United Nations today. The United Nations Ruling Council set up to give voice to many nations especially during conflicts. Yet , there leading group of nations within Council has voting powers to decide outcome majors decisions. We've seen time and again how certain nations use their votes undermining decisions which bring conflicts to end. Usually based on underlining self interest.
this actually sets the political stage for the story.
Cold the botwars be propagated by the guild to keep/improve the need for the guild?
The best way to learn about any details about the DUNE Saga you may have missed, is to watch Nerd Cookies videos.
The concept of "Rules of Warfare" is one of the most enduring and yet stupid ideas of Science Fiction. In many ways Prescience, The Spice, Truth-Saying, The Voice, and Hyperspace... all ideas also in Dune... are far more believable than the idea that such Rules can be established and maintained for any lengthy period of time.
The reason is simple: War is a Conflict, not a Game. Games have Rules. Conflicts have CONSEQUENCES.
At first glance, Rules vs Consequences might seem like a distinction without a difference. Let me demonstrate why that is not the case with an example: Imagine you decided to equip an NBA basketball team with AK47s... They would, of course confronted with only a rule-following unarmed opposing team, find it trivial to shoot as many baskets as they wanted. But, none of those baskets would score a single point, nor would those baskets create a "win" in their NBA record. Doing so wouldn't a basketball win even if they took their AK47s and threatened the Referee(s) and NBA board of directors to change the rules... since the changed game that they won wouldn't be basketball anymore. In a mere Game, like Basketball, scoring and by extension winning itself is a phenomenon that exists only inside and thus only because of the Rules. In a Game, a 'winning against the rules' is a self-contradiction. This means, it can never be "worth it" to grossly break the rules to achieve victory... because doing so CAN'T actually achieve victory. This phenomenon is exactly what Conflicts DON'T HAVE! In a conflict, it might be "worth it" to embrace total-war tactics, alienate all potential opponents and self-styled referees, and simply deal with any consequences by WINNING. This is possible in Conflicts, where it isn't in Games, because in Conflicts, the victory conditions for each contestant is strictly and only determined by that contestant themselves. That is, all sides get to move their own goal posts irrespective of any Rules or the opinion of any Referee.
This is a unified theory as it not only explains how conflicts are fought, but how conflicts emerge and eventually recede. It is only when two or more contestants move their own victory conditions in such a way that they become contradictory that a Conflict emerges. Eventually as the Conflict evolves the incentives acting on both parties shift such that they are induced to re-evaluate their own goals and move their own victory conditions so that they no longer are contradictory. Typically this happens by the loser in the conflict abandoning some or even all such goal-posts... even potentially, although rarely, to the point of abandoning the goal-post of mere survival. Understood in these terms, the state of ungoverned rule-less warfare is ETERNAL... it merely becomes VISIBLE in a Conflict some of the time.
I enjoy your voice!
I'd be curious to know how does the attack on the Atreides fit in the Great Convention? It's clearly an all-out assault and wreaks wanton destruction (at least in the 2021 movie). Is it because there are no satellites over Arrakis, so there's no pressure to be caught? Or does the Baron know he has the Emperor's support so the gloves are off? As always; great video. Cheers!
Remember it was kanly and the saurdukar are disguised in harkonen uniforms. Remember the US attack on Libya, I think, because of rumors about weapons of mass destruction that turned out not to exist. All because the leader of that country was amassing gold to get rid of American money and control
Whenever I hear or read "ChatGPT', I think "Butlerian Jihad".
Another reason all of the great Houses kept atomics was in case of encountering a hostile “other intelligence” aka aliens
"Do not use nukes or we will destroy your planet"
*Laughs in Arrakis*
“Human Life Is Precious”…. Followed by humans shitting on humans every chance they get.
House corrino origional planet salsa secundus (wheresardukhar are raised) could be why the corrino emperium was possible think the ai macina caused obliteration of planet Corrino therefore Sardukhar could reasonably use or have that as cache militariiy moral terrorists respected by or due to surviving the oliterated environment (samurai similar sardukuar) moral policing of houses but emporer corrino invaledated their moral code which you could see when in part one first movie sardukhar general commander speaking to the corrino mentat piter was wavering in the emporers blades comments 😊
Is there a Dune story of the Machine Crusade?
You have given me a lot to think about as always... I wondered why a Civilization like the Imperium would use Atomics There ancestry is from earth but you would think they would have come up with better weapons at least more advanced. I'm a fan of the Stone Burner you can literally destroy a planet if used properly. Were the Fremen bound by the great convention I wonder if not the use of Atomics and the Stone Burner would be acceptable. I'm surprised they didn't have a house change Bull fight that would have been sweet. To me all of the houses were sneaky house Atreides not as much as the others. Quick question can you do a deep dive on the Holtzman engine you do such a great job. I have read most of the books but I still learn thing from you which make the Dune universe even more fun.
Elaine, how about more of Pauls' Jihad?
Just in case you missed it here's my video on Paul's Jihad: ua-cam.com/video/3TMuWw4gZjY/v-deo.html
I've heard some people say that computers are outlawed. I was always reluctant to ask and risk sounding pedantic, but is that actually true? Computers are very different from A.I. adjacent technologies. Like, are there no computer-like processors in their technology? My mind might just be too narrow, but I can't imagine that.
its semi true. mechanical computers that had narrow functionality were slowed . an abacus for example or a timer on a bomb. ram devices with active memory are totally banned. regardless knew tech always risked being illrgal and there were illegal computers in the entire series. that being said computers were obsolete by Dune.. seeing the future beats guessing via math
00:10 Tracy Morgan?
The voice of the narrator is mush (wa wa wa)
🤭9:41 I misheard you, and thought you said, _"leave a 'like' if you did, and be sort of subscribed."_ 🙄
First ...love ur videos
There is something to be said about ritual combat. To be disarmed or forced to yield is perhaps the greatest dishonor (depending on who you’re dueling) or killed with your own blade is also a great dishonor for your house. Dying in combat is somewhat an honor as it shows you put up a true and genuine fight. You win the duel you bring great honor to your house and people as well as what is forfeit of your opponent. You live and die by by the way of the sword, what is taken must be taken back without hesitation or mercy.
Imagine being the mofo who found out that firing a las gun at a shield causes a cataclysmic explosion.
There are no rules on war. All is fair in love and war
One of the things that does not make sense why wasn’t there a war after The House of Atreides was attacked. If the Emperor gave Atreides Dune and it was taken away…with the Emperor not saying anything about the attack the other houses should have went to war if they truly respected the House of Atreides
When Paul used atomics all the rules died...
Unrestrained jihad...
Paul knew, they wouldn't destroy arakis....the spice must flow and all the efforts to harness the worms( off world) failed
Who enforces the great convention treaty? Not once has this addressed! At least not in the first four books.
CHOAM is the arbiter.
sardukhar maybe?
The family atomics were publicly invenntoried it is absolutely impossible to deteonate anh familly atomics wothout the guild navigators not presience discovering this so false flags operations very risky with the spice presience domains.
🤨 What rules!? Take a look at what's going on Right Now... let alone what might happen 25,000 years from now.
The Geneva Conventions are supposed to do the same thing and look at how that turned out.
I always have imagined that even with the rules of engagement of the houses some pretty amount of damage could be make against this houses:
For exampleon the case of a house stronghold with shields yes of course you cannot use a nuke, but if you create a terrorist group as a sleeping cell that began to look like its own thing rather than a tool used of X or Y house this group could use a laser inside a shield house to produce a nuclear explosion inside the shield of this stronghold wich actually works like a Faraday cage mostly protecting the rest of the city or planet outside the shield.
It's is mostly what América have done with terrorist groups, they where made to hostigate russians on the Afghanistan ton not a trigger a nuclear event between the 2 and I think that in dune would fit properly.
Again with the idea of "not using nukes" other idea would be to bomb for example Arrakeen Palace with the shields up using parachuted bombs with neuro toxics or napalm based weaponry to destroy land forces, this actually surprises me because in the film we see actually a kind of suspensor air braked bombs that pierced trough the atreides cruisers yet the harkonnens had to use this "against the actual shield" of the ship and not the big shield of the Palace... maybe that doesn't work, and would make a cool idea for a video (how technology its used regards of how it looks to us depenending on the bans and politics behind it).
And another note its regards to white phosphorous: this time of weaponry its horrible in real life and a shard of this thing can burn under the skin even after the scarring of tisue, but even with this, its not "illegal" because smoke barriers used by tanks, or grenades, or big flares in the night use this technology of white phosphorous.
So maybe you are hearing on your TV how your army its using white phosphorous to illuminate a zones while actually you have B 52s launching those things on a city filled with enemies and both civilians but in wich you don't want to loose your troops.
So could be interesting for another video how the houses use this technologies actually baned but finding legal Holes for using it, like for example Paul wich used a nuke to break the shield wall and not an actual civilian objective.
I feel so sorry for the beginning Dune fans, captured by the fantastic Villeneuve adaptation and aching to learn more about the Dune universe. And background stories like these are great, but sometimes the spoilers are utterly devastating, like the give away outcome of the fight between Paul and Feyd.
The next question however in the submerging search of this universe is if there are stories we can read about all those background information, and of course there are. I believe there are now about 30 books available. The original Dune is not an easy read, but all those adjacent stories luckily are much more less difficult to read and give you an insight in the marvelous world created by Frank Herbert
"Use of atomics against humans shall be cause for use of atomics against humans."
20,000 years, and humanity hasn't changed a damn bit😁
Did you see how to the atreides bodies were burned in piles woth zero respect that could have inflamed the vreemen and the landsrsad upon discovering this could haveseen the sardukar are nothing but harkonnens which stes um it couls have been a grievous observable moral filure os epic proportions
I never understood this in the book. If you'r about to die anyway. Why not blow up your own shield and take your enemy too? Or any small terrorist or rebel group can blow up cities with ease. It brakes the setting if you even kinda think about it. Easy fix take out the lasgun problem it adds nothing to the story anyway.
Lasers are hardly used by both sides. a commander does not want one of his men to kill all of his men because that one guy gave up.
but your right in this kill everyone battle which is rare .. banishment is more common lasers were used