New Haven's Fall from Grace | Corruption, Overspending, and Greed | History in the Dark
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- Опубліковано 5 лип 2024
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The New York, New Haven and Hartford Railroad, generally simply called the New Haven Railroad, was formed from the merger of many different smaller lines in New England, USA. For many years, they enjoyed profound success and were blessed with a plethora of lucrative routes in their network right from the beginning, However, over time the railroad would begin to struggle. Even after recovering from their bankruptcy after WWII, they found themselves spiraling out-of-control due to mismanagement and a general inability of their owners to actually run a railway at all.
0:00 - Intro
0:55 - The Backstory
8:55 - The Fall
12:54 - The End
"The New York, New Haven and Hartford Railroad (reporting mark NH), commonly known as The Consolidated, or simply as the New Haven, was a railroad that operated in the New England region of the United States from 1872 to December 31, 1968. Founded by the merger of the New York and New Haven and Hartford and New Haven railroads, the company had near-total dominance of railroad traffic in Southern New England for the first half of the 20th century."
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Oligopoly can act like monopoly and still overcharge at the expense of consumers, also demanding government intervention. Examples include Coke and Pepsi, Republican and Democrat, etc.
I'm not clear on the problems with low voltage AC or especially high voltage DC power.
Why didnt the New Heaven preserve at least on steam engine?
You forgot that in addition to the competition from the trucking industry and people driving cars post-WWII, not to mention the aircraft industry was the Interstate Commerce Act of 1887. It regulated the railroads at a time they needed it, but by the 1950s, it was killing them and did kill many of them. The Staggers Act of 1980 deregulated the railroads making Conrail's success a lot easier.
But at the same time, that deregulation also led to the shit we've got going now with UP, BNSF, CSX, and even NS being run about the way Dumaine & McGinnis ran the New Haven - running American railroading into the ground (and dragging Amtrak down with them; speaking of Amtrak I'm pretty sure it was an enabling factor in their perennial screwing of Amtrak and Amtrak having to abandon routes).
I don't think it's accurate to say that the ICA of 1887 alone was the problem. It was the ICA continuing as-was... while at the same time the government including the ICC was sucking the automotive and aircraft industries' dicks (among other things, trucking got a free ride tax-wise (artificially boosting its attractiveness for shipping even though it's less efficient), and the post office ended the railroads' mail contracts).
@@ZeldaTheSwordsman Amtrak doesn't need any help in screwing things up they are pretty good at doing that on their own
Such an underrated railroad that yet again, faded away because of business shenanigans.
The worst part is that this railroad, in my internet opinion, has one of the best paint schemes of any American railroad, up there with the SP Daylight paints and UP Paint Schemes
Airline travel, more families with cars,superhighways all conspired against the railroads. This company would have faultered in due time anyway.
As a New England railfan myself, I approve of this.
Morgan Mellon had a son named Thornton Mellon. He went on to pioneer the clothing industry, having opened his Big & Tall stores which catered to the “rotund” shape. In 1986 he became the oldest freshman at Grand Lakes University. Attending at the same time as his son, Jason Mellon. He won the Gold medal at the 1986 NCAA diving competition by performing the hardest dive in sport. The Triple Lindy.
Thanks for covering the infamous New Haven! I also heard McGinnis was also involved in a coercion scheme by gaining a few million bucks for his own gain when selling a few railcars before becoming the CEO of the Boston and Maine.
Yes he sold B+M rolling Stock, got kick-backs and went to jail....
@@wilfred8326 Yeah i read about that.
Ya gotta be pretty stupid to sell out to a criminal!
While I can't remember everything he did on the New Haven, some of his ideas were actually pretty good, while others were well, frankly very shortsighted.
He almost de-electrified the Electrical Zone so he could run FL9's but he didn't reinvest in New Electrics (the E33's came via the Virginian/N+W and were a Trustees purchase).
High Speed Rail which was demonstrated by the 3 McGinnis Trains (a Talgo, Train X, and a Souped up Budd) were good ideas but not executed well. The idea was purchase a fleet of the best of the 3 designs but that never happened. Equipment owned by the RR was often sold for cash then leased back.... he was doing things for short term profit 📈 but not stability.
My local rail museum, the Connecticut Eastern Railroad Museum has a New Haven EMD FL9 as well as one of the "worst trains ever" Budd SPV2000s.
I have heard that more than a few airline execs have spent a fortune on new paint schemes and changing airline names, none of this seems to have generated any significant revenue improvement, but it generally resulted in big pay increases for the airlines execs.
I find it so frustrating that’s how corporations work. In order to have that image of annual growth every year they will cut and take from anytbing in order to make sure it shows on paper “growth” so the execs get bonuses.
makes me think of a comment on the easiest way to become a millionaire. Be a billionaire and start an airline.
I read in an old trains magazine a quote from a government official in New Hampshire saying the biggest reason for industry leaving the state was the New Haven railroad. It did not elaborate beyond that quote.
I grew up by a New Haven spur outside of Boston where they ran Budd RDC cars into South Station until the late 70's. One of the end cars to the Roger Williams was parked near my house for years. I loved the railroad but by the 60's much of the equipment was rusty and worn. In its day the New Haven carried more passengers than any other railroad in the US.
McGinnis ran the B&M and the New Haven into the ground.
The Cape Cod Central tourist railway currently owns two of New Haven's FL9s in their original livery so there are some New Haven engines still in operation
I have a few New Haven streamlined passenger cars on my model railroad. I modified them to fit my railroad’s strict codes of operation for use on a train called the Redliner.
Great video! I live in the middle of the old grounds of the New Haven railroad. 25 -30 minutes away from the city. Nice job Darkness!
What a shame on how the mighty have fallen
You know I’m starting to notice a pattern here with these videos
Example like:
1. Railroads merge to form a new company
2. Things lead from one to another like poor treatment of the railroad
3. Other stuff involving business
4. Gets closed or absorbed into a bigger company
Probably not as accurate but it’s something I’ve noticed throughout the videos, it’s also very sad to seeing railroads like these go out from the ways that they did to keep a float
Keep it up man! I really enjoy these videos about fallen flags. Not much content on UA-cam for these titans of yesterday so I appreciate that you're able to bring it to life!
@3:22 for a moment before the photo appeared, I zoned out and thought you were referring to Jaye P. Morgan, Pop songstress and legendary Gong Show showstopper... 😆
I have pictures of NH RR ran commuter service from Boston South Station in 1959 NH RR started cutting back commuter service out of South Station in 1967 the Boston MBTA started construction of the South Shore line to Quincy Massachusetts opening in 1971 then from Quincy to Braintree opening in 1981 the MBTA took over all the commuter rail lines from South Station too it was cool seeing the X - NH RR GP -9’s and the RDC cars of NH RR running in 1978 all of the equipment was replaced with the F- 40’s and new Pullman passenger cars the GP - 9 ‘s were traded for FP - 10’s and the passenger cars were scrap some ended up in railroad museums
I sure do miss the big freight trains that used to run to and from Maybrook NY .
Things change over time, the railroads didn't realize this until too late. Up until about 1920, the only practical way to move stuff any significant distance was by either train, canal, or ship, this ended with the practical motor truck and the road network needed to carry them. About the last profitable thing the NH did was to carry the building materials for the Conn. Turnpike, when it opened for traffic any chance of profitability was gone. Railroads built up their feeder branch line networks in an age of railroad monopoly, when this ended the railroads were burdened with caring for and operating this network that was required by the government's regulatory system, the ICC, it was very difficult to abandon branch lines even after most of the customers left. The NH had two remaining operating missions, intercity passenger service and commuter passenger service into NYC and Boston, both of which were expensive to operate, required an inventory of equipment, and which generated little meaningful revenue. Another factor was high taxes on real estate assets owned by the railroad, tax treatment of these varies a great deal from state to state but Connecticut does well by them. The main line of the NH looks like a Swiss railroad in terms of the total curvature and the number of bridges and other structures, most of these structures were built before the 1920s and given the NH's maintenance program are worn out, this was true at the time of the PC merger and still is today as Amtrak struggles to budget for their replacements, remember that a ten million bridge in 1920 is a two hundred million today. The NH mainline sees no freight traffic today but plenty of commuter trains and Amtrak. It pays no taxes to the communities it crosses and the passengers have seen massive increases in the fares they pay and operations still require subsidy by the state and federal governments. The railroad had good managers and bad, but none of this was their fault, railroads operated most of their passenger and commuter services by using revenues from their profitable freight operations, when these ended the outcome was cut in stone.
I will add a tale that I heard about the NH. It had a rather run down station in one of the tonier suburbs of NY. Locals got a petition to fix it up and the railroad was pressured enough to actually do it. Nicely cleaned up everybody was happy especially the local tax accessor who made a visit and quickly raised the assessment considerably, on getting this news the company sent out the wrecking ball and leveled the building replacing it with one of the portable construction offices on rubber tires, communities can't tax these. It seems odd that airport terminals are not taxed but railroad stations are, can anyone explain that for me?
I have literally been here since u made ur first train video and just to see you grow is absolutely amazing you doing amazingly 👏
The EN57 are soooo well known and loved in Poland they got the nickname "the toilet"....don't ask me why, it's like a butterfly had sthg. in common with butter... Greetings from Poland,keep up' with Your great work 👍
New Haven commuter went to GCT. New Haven intercity went to Penn Station.
Most NH intercity trains terminated at GCT.
My great grandfather was a freight conductor from 1917 to 1948 for NY NH H railroad. We have a few things of his memorabilia
Good job. Maybe you could cover how just last month, the Frisco Silver Dollar Line had its first accident when eco-terrorists decided to sabotage the brakes between cars 3 & 4 behind 504, causing the three cars ahead of car 4 to flip over, alongside 504’s tender.
I've read a few pieces on the derailment. Nuthin' said about sabotage.
Fascinating video. I'd love to hear your history and take on the Rock Island, especially on the merger fiasco and its total collapse.
That's going live for non-members next week!
Another sad story in railroad history, just like PRR, NYC, Penn Central merger, Pan Am . . .
huh I had no clue PanAm also ran a railroad at one time. Only ever knew of the airline.
I walk the old abandoned part of the Cedar Hill Yard all the time.
The image at 14:47 is literally in a school presentation I’m making on the collapse of railroads
9:52 is where the current CT State Armory is located, Park River is at the right.
In 1978 we took the National Limited to Harrsiburg. A short(snowy)walk from the station in Harrisburg was a line up of dead EP5s.
They were in bad shape.
CR never bothered to CR the damn things either. (13:50)
Went to scrap in PC paint.
It is my understanding that the "Jets" were offered to Amtrak upon their startup, but they were in such bad shape at that point that the mechanical officers just took one look at them and said "No thanks!"
Wow at 13:20 you see a EMD/Alco/FM lash up
The two pencil pushers who took it over are likely the ones who tore down the wires on the Danbury Branch, A decision that now haunts the commuter services of the Metro-North on that line today.
Only remnant of New Haven I see often is the CVRR #3025, currently preserved on the Essex Steam Train & Riverboat, otherwise known as the Connecticut Valley Railroad Park, property. She wears a New Haven livery, instead of the Connecticut Valley scheme you'd see on #40 and #97. However, seeing as #3025 was built in 1989, well after the fall of New Haven, I've always wondered why the locomotive bears the livery.
3025 is chinese
As 4-8-4Northern said, 3025 is Chinese - built, verified by her builder’s plate. I can’t recall the name of the Chinese builder, & I think her build date was something like 1987 (!).
She’s the second Chinese- built Mikado that Valley RR has owned; they sold the first one, & were actually planning to sell more of them to other tourist RR’s, but the ship carrying the others sank en-route!
They acquired the loco from a tourist RR in PA whose main attraction was a huge steel trestle that got partially destroyed by a tornado (I think the bridge name was the Kwanza viaduct?); the bridge collapse caused the tourist line to fail financially.
The locomotive was stored in an engine house that was later destroyed by fire, damaging the locomotive. Valley RR. bought the damaged locomotive and a load of spare parts. The cab had to be replaced, so they thought, “let’s put on a New Haven styled arch - windowed cab on it; & while we’re at it, put on a New Haven style “Sunbeam” headlight, & rebuilt the tender to a New Haven- style clear - vision switching tender (since they don’t have turning facilities & run the locomotive in reverse for half their runs). What they did amounted to a 1:1 scale version of model railroad “kitbashing”! ;)
Was this your first sponsored video? I've watched a lot of your vids, and I can't remember seeing a sponsor spot on yours before. If so, good job dude!
I think the sponsor has appeared before
Very nice
Imagine if the New Haven and the New York Central had merged with the Norfolk and Western in 1955. Provided that the former New Haven would have 4 new independent railroads. And the new railroads would be independent. By 1964 would be called. The Providence and Worcester that would handle from Lowell to Framingham to Providence R.I. Mass Colony would handle Taunton Mass to Plymouth Mass. And Fall River to Cape Cod. And Fall River to Providence RI. Connecticut Southern would handle traffic from Hartford to Willimantic CT to Springfield Mass. And Berkshire RR would handle traffic from Pittsfield to Danbury CT. And the Norfolk,Western and New York Central. would handle from Boston to Chicago. And New York City to Philly and New York City to Chicago.
Loved the new Haven freight trains on the bay ridge ny branch when it was electric, sad that it was torn down with the electric system
You should do a video on the obscure M.C.R.R.(Michigan Central) and it's love hate relationship with NYC.
I was playing TT3 and the final op rr was beyond time to merge with but I like to keep an opponent or two remaining so I’m not the only rr on the map, I didn’t even consider the fact what I was inheriting from a bankrupt rr with wayyyy too much motive power and overspent. Took years on the game to get things settled out.
You know, monopolies don't just appear in a vacuum. Take the example of Standard Oil that everyone loves so much.
The reason they became a monopoly, while they were utterly ruthless in their business practices, is because their fuel was so good you didn't have to filter it. I.E. it "Set the Standard for Quality". By controlling all aspects of the supply chain, Standard Oil could keep a rigorous control over the quality of their product, and in a free market environment the company that has the best product is the one that often wins. We tend to forget this nowadays because the negative press of Monopoly Busting dominates the historical narrative, but the reason you can go to the gas station and just pour the stuff in your car without worrying about it, is because of the monopoly of Standard Oil.
Just sayin'.
Carry on.
Can you cover the lbscs engines rolling stock history lines and incidents and a list of all engines and their accidents
15:00 Technically, Conrail worked to bring the Eastern US of A back FROM the black... can't believe nobody's made that joke yet.
8:06 Every railroad but Norfolk & Western
Ironic thing about McGinnis. After he left the New Haven, he came over to the Boston & Maine. From what I remember, McGinnis seemed to learn from how badly he screwed up in the New Haven and ran the B&M decently (iirc). He implemented the iconic Bluebird paint scheme when he arrived, and you can see it’s similarities with the New Haven’s version of McGinnis’s paint job. Of course the B&M would also go bankrupt in 1969, but held out until 1983 when Guilford Transportation came around and scooped it up with the Maine Central and the Delaware & Hudson
He went to jail for selling B+M rolling stock and receiving kickbacks
I see, thanks for the info
and not too long thereafter, Mr. McGinnis went on to Federal Prison in Danbury, Ct.... also served by the New Haven
Then, Guilford screwed those 2 RR's, the D&H, and railroading in New England in general.
Please do a video on the south shore line. The last streetcar esche line in Indiana of all places that survived
Livery with a hard i, like the show is live, sounds so forced
I’ve always said livery with a soft i, as in I live near train tracks
Do you think you could do something on dw Brownstein, president of the southern railroad or W Graham claytor
Of all of the NH photos that were shown there is not even one of their beautiful I4 4-6-4 Hudsons
The Hudsons were I-5
Time to go on eBay, now I need a New Haven loco
Suggestion, Biggest or Most Powerful Tractors ever built
8:02 *That's my favorite New Haven steam locomotive!!*
*the i4 class pacifics*
I saw a beautiful Broadway Limited Imports ho scale model of #1351 it running at a local model railroad club! It was a beautiful steam locomotive.
*You should definitely talk about them*
you know you're failing rapidly when PennCentral tells you to jog off!
McGinnis also spent money on stupid trainsets and also was indicted!
Yes he did, he also spent time at Danbury Federal Prison.
Now do the Virginian Railway. We know you love their chimongusly powerful locomotives
15:46 And none of them are steam nor electric locomotives
Did you by any chance do the B&M railroad?
6695 goes by my house every day, weird to see it here. id say the paint more resembles the alpert paint scheme...
You really should do the Manchester, Sheffield and Lincolnshire railway (Nicknamed the "Money, Spent and Lost") and its successor the Great Central (known as "Gone Completely"). A tale of finanicial f*$kwittery that is hard to beat. And include the tragic tale of Charles Sacre, the only CME to inadvertently kill the guy (who was also a close friend) that he wanted to succeed him as CME......
Do the monon
But why werent there any surivivng NH Steam locomotives.
I heard they tried donating one to a city, but the city rejected it. There aren't any surviving NH electric locomotives either. The 2 NH Washboard MUs aren't locomotives, but self-propelled passenger cars.
Correction, 3, the club car is the third I forgot to mention
@@09JDCTrainMan Why?And also why only one?????What about Casey Janes 2-8-2 from it happened to jane why not more'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Where were Railfans in the late 50s!
@@vaclavmacgregor2464 I think they couldn't afford to
Could you talk about the Union Pacific?
8:45 Top Gear reference?
And then McGinnis just walked to the Boston & Maine Railroad and wrecked it as well.
How can you have a video on the New Haven and not even show one photo of their beautiful 4-6-4 I-5 Hudsons
Do you have any photos of them you could link me to
It would have been best for the New York Central if they'd never merged with anyone. The Pennsylvania wasn't much better than the New Haven and most of the PC's issues were entirely the fault of the Pennsylvania. The NYC was actually showing a profit at the time of the merger, albeit a marginal one. Its CEO, Alfred Perlman, whose austerity measures basically forestalled the railroad's bankruptcy for 15 years, was vehemently opposed to the merger, and rightly so. The final terms of the merger called for the new railroad's board to be comprised of 60%/40% in favor of the Pennsylvania. This made it less of a merger and more of a leveraged buyout of the NYC by the Pennsylvania. One has to wonder why TF any of the former NYC board members would agree to that and I believe there was a fuckload of kickback going on. I'm sure that a few weeks after the merger was complete, some new Swiss bank accounts were opened.
Hey guys, I’m going to Wendy’s. Y’all want anything?
The biggest reason for business leaving Connecticut is Connecticut
Nice video :) But "Livery"? It's pronounced Liv-er-ee, like liver with an E sound on the end. Every heard of a livery stable like say in a western movie? Same pronunciation.
that gold trim looked so much nicer thant he red white black conglomerate
You're pretty spot - on about Pat McGinnis (as far as I'm concerned, he was the railroad equivalent of Donald Trump! 😝).Fred Dumaine Sr. was a corporate raider who had a habit of running companies (other than railroads) into the ground while lining his own pockets. His son actually tried to undo a lot of the damage his father had done, improving service until ousted by McGinnis in that proxy fight. The "McGinnis" paint scheme was the ONLY good thing he did (just look at the amount of model railroad equipment produced in it - including prototypes the New Haven NEVER owned (I think Penn Line produced a GG1 in New Haven colors, for example!). Some of the New Haven fans jokingly refer to them as "NON-Haven"! 😄
McGinnis' experimental passenger trains, the "Johen Quincy Adams", the "Dan'l Webster", & the "Rodger Williams" were a HUGE waste of money; he tried to do high speed rail "on the cheap" with flashy lightweigt trains rather than maintaing the mainline (now the Amtrak NE corridor) roadbed. The first 2 were unmitigated mechanical disasters & were scrapped within a few years after McGinnis was ousted from the New Haven; the "Rodger Williams" was basically a "hot-rodded" 5 - car RDC set with locomotive-style cabs on the end units; the were evcentually re-geared to lower speeds to operate with conventional RDC's. 3 of the 5 units (including the loco-styled end units & 1 of the middle cars) survive today & are privately owned; I've personally seen them in storage at the Hobo Railroad tourist line in New Hampshire. They have been restored to the McGinnis livery (they actually operated under Amtrak for a while & wore one of Amtrak's original liveries). I'm not sure of their current mechanical state. The 2 missing middle cars were wrecked beyond repair in a commuter train wreck (I think in the 1960's).
There is a lot of speculation, though, that even if New Haven HAD compentent management during the time McGinnis was in, how the rairoad would have fared at that time period. Heavy industry was leaving New England, to be replaced by high technology industries which had little need of rail service. The Interstate Highway program plopped I-95 parallel to New Haven's mainline, produing both auto competition for passengers & truck competition for freight. (Ironically, New Haven got a freight traffic boost hauling concrete for the construction of I-95!
The turnaround of the formet New Haven Shoreline mainline as Amtrak's NE Corridor between Boston & New York has been astonishing to someone who witnessed it under NH's final days & Penn Central; I was working in the Mansfield, MA area around 2000 & saw the catenary going up. A lot of New Haven's former branchlines in my area are now rail trails; but in my hometown of Fall River, MA, the MBTA has rebuilt the line over the last few years to restore commuter rail service to Boston in late 2023, with welded rail, a new passenger station, & new 6-track layover yard! 🥲
I remember many times passing under that concrete underpass in Mansfield, MA, under the NE Corridor when going to the cape to visit my mom's sister, located in Buzzards Bay, that is, until I-495 was completed going all the way to the Bourne Bridge. What is that street passing under the NEC?
Our visit would be located up to two miles away from the Cape Cod Canal vertical lift bridge and very close to the former Gray Gables location.
Nono, he's the railroad equivalent of Biden
@@williamh.jarvis6795 I don’t know off the top of my head (in spite of having worked in the Mansfield area for around 4 & 1/2 years). Your best bet would probably be to put “MBTA Mansfield Station” into the search engine on Google Earth; the underpass is directly at the south end of the station parking lot, Google Earth should probably give you the street name as well.
@@williamh.jarvis6795 TRUMP? Running into the ground that is BRANDON. FREE SPEECH DEAD. Afghanistan and 7 innocent kids are dead thanks to Beijing biden drone! Tears, cries of vengeance as Tehran bids farewell to Soleimani that's your Unpatriotic calling.
there is a part of me if it was not for the absurd cost overruns that would probably happen that would love to see Amtrak have liveries for the Acela of the lines that used to make up what is now the NEC. So like an NH Acela, PRR, NYC, etc.
Who would ever think that the KID that's narrating these video's has ANY business experience to back up his critique of virtually everything? Perhaps, that's a rather lengthy question, if so, I apologize.
It's a joke
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Trains Joseph Smith Mormons
New York
Makes a good case for nationalization and socialism
No, it doesn't.
Highways are socialism that wrecked economic vitality of railroads. Using government money to buy property sometimes forcefully, move freight, & Passengers, do maint, upgrades & all the while not having to pay taxes on stations, property, inventory or equipment.
Shure thing another Socialism failure costing us more in everything we do!
@@23GreyFox I mean its basically what Conrail was, and what Amtrak is. IMO the federal government should own all the rails, But not the companies. That is how a lot of europe is, Government owns the ROW but the carriers on them are private companies often times. Which would not be any different than say the interstates or the air travel industries, Roads and airports are all gov owned and its probably the biggest reason trucking and airlines flourished. Unlike a Railroad they do not have to pay directly for their infrastructure.
they had a choice the NYC did not need the PRR or new Haven the Prr was almost in as bad of Shape as the New Haven
Stop trying to be so cutesy. The plain facts are interesting enough