Humor is asymmetric too. Jokes work because they point at something true. Stand-up comedians often use the recipe "What is true that you are not allowed to say?"
@@lsusr265 Yes, though I think that's one half of humour. The other half is bullying. And that's the thing: I rarely see the first kind unalloyed in Socratic dialogues. In Plato's dialogues, for instance, I recall some characters looking ridiculous. Yet in conversations where I'm deeply curious about why another person thinks X thing I know is wrong, and I wind up changing their minds, there's rarely laughter of any sort. (And mocking an interlocutor, or making them feel silly, doesn't work well in my limited experience.) But somehow, you and your guests both laugh. Why the difference, when we expect humour to be useful in changing people's minds? Are your jokes doing work in changing people's minds? If so, how much, and in what ways are you employing the joke? Writing this comment made me realize that I want to watch a bunch more discussions like these, where people change their minds, with different interlocutor styles and see what features are common. Humour, of course, but what other talk-techniques am I blind to?
@algongoku Yes 100%. You ask good questions too. I believe these techniques are both learnable and teachable (with the usual caveats that you have to genuinely want to learn). The words "Juvenalian" and "Horatian" describe the distinction you're pointing at. Juvenalian humor is mocking, cruel and bullying. Juvenalian humor is laughing at a person or a group of people. I prefer Horatian humor. Horatian humor is laughing with a person. Juvenalian humor is about how someone else is misguided. Horatian humor is about how we're all misguided. But even that dichotomy misses other classes of jokes I employ, such as jokes that imply "you're better than this". Jokes are just one of many techniques I use in helping people see the mistakes they're missing. One trait common to many of my techniques is that they're indirect. Jokes are just one of many tools I use to convey an idea indirectly. When I wrote "Flowing like Water. Hard like stone." in this dialogue www.lesswrong.com/posts/WeSovg9Mpw3Rme7zB/flowing-like-water-hard-like-stone, I was being indirect too, but without a punchline.
I appreciate the suggestion, but I'm not sure there's much to get out of that. I tell myself I'm supposed to do yoga, and then usually don't. I'll take a shower and then make breakfast. Today I bicycled to the market downtown and got some groceries. I'm a big fan of Samurai Matcha, but aren't as minimalist as he is. One thing I'm worried about is I recently moved, and so I'm still figuring out my routines. I don't want to give the impression that I'm more disciplined than I really am, either. That said, the idea sounds very feasible and I would learn a lot about producing videos.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I think your love of humour is also doing work in your discussions. Humour pierces through blinders like little else.
Humor is asymmetric too. Jokes work because they point at something true. Stand-up comedians often use the recipe "What is true that you are not allowed to say?"
@@lsusr265 Yes, though I think that's one half of humour. The other half is bullying. And that's the thing: I rarely see the first kind unalloyed in Socratic dialogues. In Plato's dialogues, for instance, I recall some characters looking ridiculous. Yet in conversations where I'm deeply curious about why another person thinks X thing I know is wrong, and I wind up changing their minds, there's rarely laughter of any sort. (And mocking an interlocutor, or making them feel silly, doesn't work well in my limited experience.) But somehow, you and your guests both laugh. Why the difference, when we expect humour to be useful in changing people's minds? Are your jokes doing work in changing people's minds? If so, how much, and in what ways are you employing the joke?
Writing this comment made me realize that I want to watch a bunch more discussions like these, where people change their minds, with different interlocutor styles and see what features are common. Humour, of course, but what other talk-techniques am I blind to?
@algongoku Yes 100%. You ask good questions too. I believe these techniques are both learnable and teachable (with the usual caveats that you have to genuinely want to learn).
The words "Juvenalian" and "Horatian" describe the distinction you're pointing at. Juvenalian humor is mocking, cruel and bullying. Juvenalian humor is laughing at a person or a group of people. I prefer Horatian humor. Horatian humor is laughing with a person. Juvenalian humor is about how someone else is misguided. Horatian humor is about how we're all misguided.
But even that dichotomy misses other classes of jokes I employ, such as jokes that imply "you're better than this".
Jokes are just one of many techniques I use in helping people see the mistakes they're missing. One trait common to many of my techniques is that they're indirect. Jokes are just one of many tools I use to convey an idea indirectly. When I wrote "Flowing like Water. Hard like stone." in this dialogue www.lesswrong.com/posts/WeSovg9Mpw3Rme7zB/flowing-like-water-hard-like-stone, I was being indirect too, but without a punchline.
can you do a get ready with me?
I appreciate the suggestion, but I'm not sure there's much to get out of that. I tell myself I'm supposed to do yoga, and then usually don't. I'll take a shower and then make breakfast. Today I bicycled to the market downtown and got some groceries. I'm a big fan of Samurai Matcha, but aren't as minimalist as he is.
One thing I'm worried about is I recently moved, and so I'm still figuring out my routines. I don't want to give the impression that I'm more disciplined than I really am, either.
That said, the idea sounds very feasible and I would learn a lot about producing videos.
This is incredible
We are trying to improve with each video. I hope I can make them even more incredible!