Earthquake seems great, though I'm not a fan of the fact that it hits players, which can be really costly in an Ancient Tomb deck. I wonder if it's better than Pyroclasm!
Love it! Another interesting way to build it is going the MUD way and go heavy on artifacts with Black Vise and Tangle Wire. Burning wish is another interesting addition :D
Vise could be an interesting sb card, but Wire is not what I'm trying to do with this deck since it a) doesn't play that many permanents and b) cannot take advantage of the tempo the Wire gives you. Burning Wish does seem quite promising, though! I wonder how many good sorceries we can find in Red alone.
@@fpawluszmtg maybe the green splash`+ wish? Lots of good side options: hull breach, tranquility/reverent silence... even Stream of Life for some lulz against Sligh haha
Oh, and talking about red sorceries for the Wish: another Wildfire, Anarchy, Obliterate, Decree of Annihilation, Overmaster, Recoup, Sowing Salt, Ruination (although this one could hurt us more than our opponent)... So many spicy options!!!
I think it's important to not get too cute and use only cards that would make an actual impact. For example Pyroclasm would be the very first thing I'd consider. But it does open some doors, especially if we're splashing Green.@@kzelmer
Solid first run with the deck. Many people have tried to brew with Wildfire however no one has cracked the code yet. My initial list was throwing lots of ideas at the wall to see what would stick. I’ve gotten messages from several people and talked with Tim at the Top Decked Event. I think some of the takeaways I’ve gotten from those conversations are similar to your conclusions: Cut the Tectonic Breaks, Slice and Dice is amazing, Goblin Goon is bad, and Fledgling Dragon is either great or terrible. Lightning Bolt should definitely be played. One creature I want to try is Orgg as it’s in a similar space to Goon but has less of a downside for the deck. Awesome that you beat Elves and I think if we could make that and Goblins into strong matchups while also having a positive matchup against decks weak to mana denial (Landstill, Enchantress, etc) we can get the deck to a solid tier 2 status where you can succeed with the deck assuming you can fade the bad matchups. I don’t think we will be able to solve the glaring weaknesses of the deck but we can at least optimize what it does well.
Definitely agree with this. But I think the process of exploration is fun and interesting, and it's rewarding to find "the best possible version" of a bad deck.@@MetalPope85
-3 Fledgling Dragon -2 Tectonic Break -4 Mountain -1 Karn +4 Tangle Wire +2 Chimeric Idol +2 Dwarven Ruins +1 Factory +1 Scroll Less need for lands, less need to get two red sources, can slow them down faster (which can help against those expensive enchantments that were hurting you)
Thanks... Idol was a staple in the very weak MM + Invasion T2 I used to play. The deck is goldfishing very explosively with -4 spheres +1 scroll +2 idol +1 helix from my original revision. You might want to try that out... more threats and I think you're underestimating the combo of tangle + board wipes.
Next iteration of the deck will for sure NOT play Sphere. As far as Wire: I don't think this deck can capitalize on the tempo that Wire generates because it both a) can't close the game particularly quickly and b) it's actually attempting to cast 6 drops. Wire is also much better in a deck that plays mostly permanents that it can tap to minimize the effect, while this deck has a lot of Sorceries which play especially poorly with Wire.@@dhende3
Any thoughts on voltaic key or Sisay's ring maybe or even mox diamond? Maybe other finishers rorix bladewing, dragon roost, actual shivan, form of the dragon? Other sweepers like starstorm. I agree outs to enchantments seem necessary.
Definitely not enough value to be gained from Voltaic key, so that's not a consideration. And Worn Powerstone seems better than Sisay's Ring (and Mox Diamond, though these could be ok in very small numbers). As far as more finishers Rorix seems like the best one, though I'm not sure how actually hard to cast it may be. I think we're doing fine in the sweepers department, and I think I'd go with Earthquake before Starstorm. I honestly I'm not sure where the ceiling of this deck is, it'd require more time in testing than I'm willing to give it, but I'd love to see other folks pick it up and see how far it can be pushed.
@@fpawluszmtg my thoughts on starstorm is I don't think you want to be taking extra damage from like an eq. I may be over estimating the mana potential of the deck. Tectonic break looked soft. Maybe red decree for its cycling mode. I'd love to see more iteration on it. This deck is fun to watch.
I love to see you trying wildfire. Have you considered Crater Hellion? Ofc you might have a hard time paying the echo but its another finisher and it cleanly kills your opponent's board, just like wildfire.
That's a good question! I do wonder if the Echo may be too much a cost, though it surviving Wildfire is a good selling point. I don't think I'll be playing this deck again for a while, but when I do I'll certainly try that out.
Masticore was in my original list and I ended up cutting them for Karn. I think Masticore may be the better alternative. Green splash seems worth exploring for sure. I don't think Powerstone is where you want to be, since you want your ramp to be either 2 or 4 mana. 3 sits at a very awkward spot in the curve.
@@fpawluszmtg powerstone does come down on t2 w a soul land and that's t3 dragon or masticore w 2 mana up easily. May be a nice 1-of. I think sphere may be a good sideboard option. Powder keg can answer enchantments slowly. Smokestack/null brooch can as well. tangle wire may be better than sphere on main. Mishra's helix/crumbling sanctuary also worth a look. Ensnaring bridge too
It coming down on t2 with Sol lands is not the problem, it's the fact that if you have a sol land you're still better off playing a 2 mana ramp spell on t1, which gets you up to 4 mana for turn 2. Powder Keg does not destroy enchantments (I also assumed it was the same as Ratchet Bomb, but it turns out it's not, hahaha). This is not a good Smokestack deck since it plays a lot of Spells as opposed to playing a bunch of permanents. Null Brooch and Ensnaring Bridge are not super good in a deck with a bunch of 6 drops. Wire has a similar problem: this deck doesn't play that many permanents and it's attempting to cast 6 Drops, which Wire doesn't help that much. The deck also can't really capitalize on the tempo you gain with Wire.@@seanswerdan7639
fwiw you could try devastating dreams, keldon firebombers or impending disaster as redundancy for wildfire. also >0 zuranborbs might be okay to help vs burn (or crumbling sanctuary of course)
I don't think this would make a good Devastating Dreams deck... The other 2 cards I don't think they good enough for the format, unfortunately. Zuran Orb is interesting, it may be worth considering vs Burn specifically
Certainly a card we could add to the deck, though I don't think it does anything at all against Replenish since if they ever put all their white enchantments into play you are dead regardless 😆
@@fpawluszmtg parallax wave makes the combo really resistant but it will at least take out one wave. Probably not worth the slot but the corner case for enchantment removal in red exists
I hadn't considered it. Medallion is interesting cause it's at the 2 mana sweet spot, but it accelerates Red spells only while not allowing you to cycle Slice and Dice nor cast artifacts nor activate Temporal Aperture, which is pretty important. I am not sure, but it's definitely worth testing. I wouldn't want more than 1 or 2 copies total, though.
2 Akroma, Angel of Wrath 4 Eternal Dragon 4 Exalted Angel 2 Decree of Justice 3 Wrath of God 2 Thran Dynamo 3 Temporal Aperture 3 Mind Stone 3 Marble Diamond 4 Cursed Scroll 4 Swords to Plowshares 4 Mishra's Factory 4 Rishadan Port 3 Dust Bowl 1 Kor Haven 14 Plains 3 Masticore 1 Wrath of God 4 Circle of Protection: Red 4 Seal of Cleansing 3 Phyrexian Furnace
Exalted Angel is my favorite card in the format, and I have been interested in Eternal Dragon decks for a while, so I will definitely take it out for a spin at some point @@arrighi11
I would play a copy or 2, just to have redundant copies of Wildfire, but the latter costing 1 less definitely helps, and allows the 5 toughness creatures to remain in play afterwards.
For sure! As I said in the end of the video, the idea is there but the execution could be improved a lot. I think choosing a lane and trying to maximize on it is better than this "half way approach" I tried right here.
l dont understand mulliganing to 4 when the first one had you with a factory in hand, especially when the deck has no answer to lackey otp anyway, how was slice and dice any better? To my book that's a bad choice, just like not casting wildfire instead of dragon g1 elves, or playing tomb, mindstone into sphere g3 elves instead of just sphere, effectively delaying everything one turn
I am assuming post board my opponent will have 4 Naturalize + Port + Tinkerer at least, so Factory is not very likely to be able to stop a Lackey for too long. Slice and Dice does is for good. I explained the choice of Dragon instead of Wildfire: if I cast Wildfire then I leave my opponent with a Survival in play, and I have no clock. They are much more likely to get up to speed faster than I can and I would most certainly lose from there. The mind stone over Sphere is close, I decided to go for the line that was more effective for my curve and could have been wrong. I'm taking a gamble for sure.
@@fpawluszmtg Sure factory won't stop a lackey for long, but since goblin is on the play a t1 lackey is bad regardless, because a slice and dice won't be able to be cycled before t2 anyway (assuming you have a sol land as well, whereas a mishra can aways be activated). That's why I'm saying that going down to 4 instead of keeping the mishra's hand was a choice that had no effective upside. Dragon over Wildfire: survival would be in play but he'd have no mana and no elves on the board (one bounced), a way better situation compared to letting him combo you out (you even predicted it, and it did happen). As for the sphere/mindstone there is no gamble here: I don't see any downside in playing ancient tomb instead of mountain, netting three mana with your lands, play mind stone, tapping it and having exactly two mana to cast sphere as well.
Right, but I have Pyroclasm in my deck that I am mulliganing to, and if I find a hand that casts Clasm or t2 or 3 then I'm pretty likely to be able to win. I settled for the 4 card hand with Slice and Dice, but the potential of hands I could have found was much higher than that. I think the mulligan was right, personally. Dragon/Wildfire: I went for the high risk/high reward play. I think that if I just cast Wildfire, with Survival in play my opponent is way more likely to beat me from an empty board than I am to beat them, since it'll be multiple turns before I even get to put a clock in play. If I do take a turn to play the Dragon and I survive I think I am above 80% to win the game straight up. This is an example of making a play where I am "playing to win" as opposed to "playing to not lose". Sphere: No arguments, I think you're right.@@MetalPope85
I see. Personally I would have never risked such punishing mulls in the hopes of finding a meager 2x in the form of pyroclasm, if a hand is still playable I value it over a sb card, especially if it's not a 4-of @@fpawluszmtg
I used to have this deck as a kid. I remember stone rains/pillage/avalanche riders being in the mix. But fledgling is a downgrade to masticore/scroll imo.
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In my tests i Ve found Earthquake very valuable
Earthquake seems great, though I'm not a fan of the fact that it hits players, which can be really costly in an Ancient Tomb deck. I wonder if it's better than Pyroclasm!
Love it! Another interesting way to build it is going the MUD way and go heavy on artifacts with Black Vise and Tangle Wire. Burning wish is another interesting addition :D
Vise could be an interesting sb card, but Wire is not what I'm trying to do with this deck since it a) doesn't play that many permanents and b) cannot take advantage of the tempo the Wire gives you. Burning Wish does seem quite promising, though! I wonder how many good sorceries we can find in Red alone.
@@fpawluszmtg maybe the green splash`+ wish? Lots of good side options: hull breach, tranquility/reverent silence... even Stream of Life for some lulz against Sligh haha
Oh, and talking about red sorceries for the Wish: another Wildfire, Anarchy, Obliterate, Decree of Annihilation, Overmaster, Recoup, Sowing Salt, Ruination (although this one could hurt us more than our opponent)... So many spicy options!!!
I think it's important to not get too cute and use only cards that would make an actual impact. For example Pyroclasm would be the very first thing I'd consider. But it does open some doors, especially if we're splashing Green.@@kzelmer
@@fpawluszmtg got it :D
Solid first run with the deck. Many people have tried to brew with Wildfire however no one has cracked the code yet. My initial list was throwing lots of ideas at the wall to see what would stick. I’ve gotten messages from several people and talked with Tim at the Top Decked Event. I think some of the takeaways I’ve gotten from those conversations are similar to your conclusions: Cut the Tectonic Breaks, Slice and Dice is amazing, Goblin Goon is bad, and Fledgling Dragon is either great or terrible. Lightning Bolt should definitely be played. One creature I want to try is Orgg as it’s in a similar space to Goon but has less of a downside for the deck.
Awesome that you beat Elves and I think if we could make that and Goblins into strong matchups while also having a positive matchup against decks weak to mana denial (Landstill, Enchantress, etc) we can get the deck to a solid tier 2 status where you can succeed with the deck assuming you can fade the bad matchups. I don’t think we will be able to solve the glaring weaknesses of the deck but we can at least optimize what it does well.
Agree with everything you said. Definitely a lot to explore with this archetype!
Isn't Red Deck Nguyen just a better Mono Red deck?
Probably, but this one gets to cast Wildfire!@@gabefarkas
not all decks are to be cracked. Some are worse than others (this one is an example)
Definitely agree with this. But I think the process of exploration is fun and interesting, and it's rewarding to find "the best possible version" of a bad deck.@@MetalPope85
-3 Fledgling Dragon
-2 Tectonic Break
-4 Mountain
-1 Karn
+4 Tangle Wire
+2 Chimeric Idol
+2 Dwarven Ruins
+1 Factory
+1 Scroll
Less need for lands, less need to get two red sources, can slow them down faster (which can help against those expensive enchantments that were hurting you)
I really don't think Wire is where this deck actually wants to be, though I could definitely be wrong. I love Chimeric Idol! Fantastic suggestion!
Thanks... Idol was a staple in the very weak MM + Invasion T2 I used to play. The deck is goldfishing very explosively with -4 spheres +1 scroll +2 idol +1 helix from my original revision. You might want to try that out... more threats and I think you're underestimating the combo of tangle + board wipes.
Next iteration of the deck will for sure NOT play Sphere. As far as Wire: I don't think this deck can capitalize on the tempo that Wire generates because it both a) can't close the game particularly quickly and b) it's actually attempting to cast 6 drops. Wire is also much better in a deck that plays mostly permanents that it can tap to minimize the effect, while this deck has a lot of Sorceries which play especially poorly with Wire.@@dhende3
Can you build and try a Mono White Control deck like this one?
Any thoughts on voltaic key or Sisay's ring maybe or even mox diamond? Maybe other finishers rorix bladewing, dragon roost, actual shivan, form of the dragon? Other sweepers like starstorm. I agree outs to enchantments seem necessary.
Definitely not enough value to be gained from Voltaic key, so that's not a consideration. And Worn Powerstone seems better than Sisay's Ring (and Mox Diamond, though these could be ok in very small numbers). As far as more finishers Rorix seems like the best one, though I'm not sure how actually hard to cast it may be. I think we're doing fine in the sweepers department, and I think I'd go with Earthquake before Starstorm. I honestly I'm not sure where the ceiling of this deck is, it'd require more time in testing than I'm willing to give it, but I'd love to see other folks pick it up and see how far it can be pushed.
@@fpawluszmtg my thoughts on starstorm is I don't think you want to be taking extra damage from like an eq. I may be over estimating the mana potential of the deck. Tectonic break looked soft. Maybe red decree for its cycling mode. I'd love to see more iteration on it. This deck is fun to watch.
Damn that's a sweet deck!
That it certainly is! Maybe not as good, hahaha
@@fpawluszmtg ye, the only thing that comes to mind that I think might be good is Icy Manipulators but idk haha, great games none the less!
I love to see you trying wildfire. Have you considered Crater Hellion? Ofc you might have a hard time paying the echo but its another finisher and it cleanly kills your opponent's board, just like wildfire.
That's a good question! I do wonder if the Echo may be too much a cost, though it surviving Wildfire is a good selling point. I don't think I'll be playing this deck again for a while, but when I do I'll certainly try that out.
Try shattering pulse for artifacts. I think that was in Budde's original list
Very interesting suggestion! Will try it out for sure!
try decree of annihilation against landstill
NOW THAT'S A BANGER! Great suggestion!
This deck probably wants cursed scroll/masticore over the fledgling dragon. Green splash is probably an upgrade. Also worn power stone.
Masticore was in my original list and I ended up cutting them for Karn. I think Masticore may be the better alternative. Green splash seems worth exploring for sure. I don't think Powerstone is where you want to be, since you want your ramp to be either 2 or 4 mana. 3 sits at a very awkward spot in the curve.
@@fpawluszmtg powerstone does come down on t2 w a soul land and that's t3 dragon or masticore w 2 mana up easily. May be a nice 1-of. I think sphere may be a good sideboard option. Powder keg can answer enchantments slowly. Smokestack/null brooch can as well. tangle wire may be better than sphere on main. Mishra's helix/crumbling sanctuary also worth a look. Ensnaring bridge too
It coming down on t2 with Sol lands is not the problem, it's the fact that if you have a sol land you're still better off playing a 2 mana ramp spell on t1, which gets you up to 4 mana for turn 2. Powder Keg does not destroy enchantments (I also assumed it was the same as Ratchet Bomb, but it turns out it's not, hahaha). This is not a good Smokestack deck since it plays a lot of Spells as opposed to playing a bunch of permanents. Null Brooch and Ensnaring Bridge are not super good in a deck with a bunch of 6 drops. Wire has a similar problem: this deck doesn't play that many permanents and it's attempting to cast 6 Drops, which Wire doesn't help that much. The deck also can't really capitalize on the tempo you gain with Wire.@@seanswerdan7639
@@fpawluszmtg powder keg got me! All good points.
fwiw you could try devastating dreams, keldon firebombers or impending disaster as redundancy for wildfire. also >0 zuranborbs might be okay to help vs burn (or crumbling sanctuary of course)
I don't think this would make a good Devastating Dreams deck... The other 2 cards I don't think they good enough for the format, unfortunately. Zuran Orb is interesting, it may be worth considering vs Burn specifically
24:27 can I introduce you to reds savior; Anarchy?
Certainly a card we could add to the deck, though I don't think it does anything at all against Replenish since if they ever put all their white enchantments into play you are dead regardless 😆
@@fpawluszmtg parallax wave makes the combo really resistant but it will at least take out one wave. Probably not worth the slot but the corner case for enchantment removal in red exists
what about ruby medallion as a form of ramp?
This comment is K-Run approved.
I hadn't considered it. Medallion is interesting cause it's at the 2 mana sweet spot, but it accelerates Red spells only while not allowing you to cycle Slice and Dice nor cast artifacts nor activate Temporal Aperture, which is pretty important. I am not sure, but it's definitely worth testing. I wouldn't want more than 1 or 2 copies total, though.
Switch out chromatic spheres for furnaces.
2 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
4 Eternal Dragon
4 Exalted Angel
2 Decree of Justice
3 Wrath of God
2 Thran Dynamo
3 Temporal Aperture
3 Mind Stone
3 Marble Diamond
4 Cursed Scroll
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Rishadan Port
3 Dust Bowl
1 Kor Haven
14 Plains
3 Masticore
1 Wrath of God
4 Circle of Protection: Red
4 Seal of Cleansing
3 Phyrexian Furnace
That's a heck of a sexy deck!
@@fpawluszmtg Give it a go. Hopefully you can make it better
Exalted Angel is my favorite card in the format, and I have been interested in Eternal Dragon decks for a while, so I will definitely take it out for a spin at some point @@arrighi11
Also, I think Disenchants are need in the main.
Decree + Smokestack are great together. Did well with such a deck in a small tourney. E tutor is great here as well.
very nice
Glad you liked it!
What this deck needs is "Devastation" from Portal or a similar effect
I would play a copy or 2, just to have redundant copies of Wildfire, but the latter costing 1 less definitely helps, and allows the 5 toughness creatures to remain in play afterwards.
Hey great try, i belive that this is a really fun deck, it just need a touch up.
For sure! As I said in the end of the video, the idea is there but the execution could be improved a lot. I think choosing a lane and trying to maximize on it is better than this "half way approach" I tried right here.
1:30 🤦♂️
l dont understand mulliganing to 4 when the first one had you with a factory in hand, especially when the deck has no answer to lackey otp anyway, how was slice and dice any better? To my book that's a bad choice, just like not casting wildfire instead of dragon g1 elves, or playing tomb, mindstone into sphere g3 elves instead of just sphere, effectively delaying everything one turn
I am assuming post board my opponent will have 4 Naturalize + Port + Tinkerer at least, so Factory is not very likely to be able to stop a Lackey for too long. Slice and Dice does is for good. I explained the choice of Dragon instead of Wildfire: if I cast Wildfire then I leave my opponent with a Survival in play, and I have no clock. They are much more likely to get up to speed faster than I can and I would most certainly lose from there. The mind stone over Sphere is close, I decided to go for the line that was more effective for my curve and could have been wrong. I'm taking a gamble for sure.
@@fpawluszmtg Sure factory won't stop a lackey for long, but since goblin is on the play a t1 lackey is bad regardless, because a slice and dice won't be able to be cycled before t2 anyway (assuming you have a sol land as well, whereas a mishra can aways be activated). That's why I'm saying that going down to 4 instead of keeping the mishra's hand was a choice that had no effective upside.
Dragon over Wildfire: survival would be in play but he'd have no mana and no elves on the board (one bounced), a way better situation compared to letting him combo you out (you even predicted it, and it did happen). As for the sphere/mindstone there is no gamble here: I don't see any downside in playing ancient tomb instead of mountain, netting three mana with your lands, play mind stone, tapping it and having exactly two mana to cast sphere as well.
Right, but I have Pyroclasm in my deck that I am mulliganing to, and if I find a hand that casts Clasm or t2 or 3 then I'm pretty likely to be able to win. I settled for the 4 card hand with Slice and Dice, but the potential of hands I could have found was much higher than that. I think the mulligan was right, personally.
Dragon/Wildfire: I went for the high risk/high reward play. I think that if I just cast Wildfire, with Survival in play my opponent is way more likely to beat me from an empty board than I am to beat them, since it'll be multiple turns before I even get to put a clock in play. If I do take a turn to play the Dragon and I survive I think I am above 80% to win the game straight up. This is an example of making a play where I am "playing to win" as opposed to "playing to not lose".
Sphere: No arguments, I think you're right.@@MetalPope85
I see. Personally I would have never risked such punishing mulls in the hopes of finding a meager 2x in the form of pyroclasm, if a hand is still playable I value it over a sb card, especially if it's not a 4-of @@fpawluszmtg
I used to have this deck as a kid. I remember stone rains/pillage/avalanche riders being in the mix. But fledgling is a downgrade to masticore/scroll imo.
I think Savage Firecat > Fledgling Dragon in this case