Indeed. KING AEGON II TARGARYEN：“My father is dead.” SER OTTO HIGHTOWER：“He is. And we are the poorer for it. He was right about you.” KING AEGON II TARGARYEN：“He made me king.” _Ser_ _Otto_ _chuckles_ _derisively_ _as_ _Aegon_ _the_ _Elder_ _looks_ _on_ _in_ _fury_ SER OTTO HIGHTOWER：“Is that what you THINK?” (❝Rhaenyra The Cruel❞ 51:29-52:08)
@@Papaty25 king aegon the second IS very concerned about his people and wanted to help them . That was very clear in the first episode of s2 . Joffrey Cares only about himself and he didnt Care about the people AT all .
It's dumb that they made that her point of view in the first place rather than giving her actual motivations to want to put Aegon on the throne. They replaced them with some misunderstanding for no good reason.
Nope. You must have watched the first season with your eyes and ears covered because it's explicitly mentioned several times that the Greens, namely Otto, were always planning to seat Aegon on the throne because Viserys was going against historical precedent when he named his daughter over his eldest son. Misconstruing Viserys' last words was just an excuse Alicent used to justify her role in the scheme on morally righteous grounds.
@@turnip9367 this! there has never been a female ruler but IRL politics got in the way. Aegon was planned regardless. A lot of money and time wasted misleading ppl with this sidequest when that money could have been spent on missing plotlines/chars/other dragons.
@@JUANORYESthe writers or just simply the viewers? Cause Rhaenyra have literally called out Alicent on being self-righteous and a liar in scenes before. It’s the audience who are literally being manipulated by the greens themselves because Alicent is literally a pos who just what’s her son to be king but she’s too religious to admit she permitted sacrilege.
Its tragic. There's literally nothing that can be done now. Alicent wasn't dismissing Rhaenyra, she simply stated a fact, she can't do anything, she has no power or voice here anymore. I feel for both ladies. Now there can only be war and losses over nothing. A story.
Yup. Aegon will never give up the throne and Rhaenrya risked her life to plead with her former friend for peace to prevent a war and thousands of deaths. But it's too late. 😢
The war would have started anyway, Alicent didn't have voice to begin with, she was just Otto's pawn. Otto started all this when he made her marry Viserys and set her against Rhaenyra
@@yevgeniyaleshchenko849she had some power that short time after Viserys death. She could have had that whole council imprisoned for their treacherous planning on the usurping of the throne that she was made unaware of. At that time the kingsguard was still hers to command and they would have lostened had she told them to throw them all in the dungeon.
I think deep down Alicent knew that was not what he meant just like how her specific question to Rhaenyra was did Daemon dishonour you? She knows in both cases what the truth is [in the latter case she overlooks the loophole] but her worst instincts and own desires take over.
I like how Rhaenyra talks to Alicent asking her as a friend and not as an enemy to correct her mistake, I also like how Alicent warns her to leave and not be discovered since Alicent could talk about Rhaenyra's presence at any time, especially after the conversation in which Rhaenyra and only she knows about Alicent's mistake
I like how you give us recap of the scene we all saw and heard. I also like how you think Alicent's "mistake" really meant anything... War would have started anyway
Emma and Olivia have such natural and intense chemistry I honestly don't blame the writers for finding ways for them to share scenes every now and then. It felt ages since they last shared scene so this is definitely well earned.
I just love how older Alicent and Rhaenyra are in the exact same positions they were when they prayed there as younger children in episode 2, season 1. Gotta love Rhaenyra’s reaction when she realized Viserys was referring to Aegon the Conqueror and not Aegon her brother. Alicent had to know Rhaenyra would have made a much better ruler. All of this occurred through Alicent’s mistake, but also Otto’s manipulations and planning behind the scenes
Alicent mishearing Viserys didn't contribute to anything as Otto paved the way for this decades ago. They would have STILL put Aegon on the throne. Otto made Alicent marry Viserys, Otto then made her think that her children absolutely have to sit the throne, otto didn't even believe what Alicent said and was already plotting to usurp the throne. That mishearing bit was only added for dramatic effect but the war was already on the way. So not "also Otto's manipulations" but mainly because of Otto's manipulations, dear
YES. From the beginning scene of season 1 episode 1 it was established that this show, its plot, is ultimately centered around these two women and their relationship.
Emma has become one of my favourite actors in the entire franchise and in such a short time span too. Incredible talent that only seems to be getting better with each episode.
@@MeleysTessarion Yes, "A terrible war is looming, and even victory may be so bloody as to be counted a loss." The fear in her voice while pleading with Alicent to stop the war, knowing well it would claim thousands of lives, including theirs. HBO shouldn't have cut out the last part; the music and Rhaenyra's expression sent chills down my spine.
@@izilovesstarmieEmma definitely got nominated for an Emmy for best ACTRESS for the role of Rhaenyra so it’s completely acceptable to call Emma an actress. Unless you’d rather Emma never win any awards for the incredible portrayal of a female character….
Imagine Otto's reaction to this. He would get a stroke seeing Alicent letting her go. He was mocking Aegon's plan, because he wasn't familiar with Rhaenyra's game.
This scene was a roller coaster of truth. They both trust each other's words despite their differences, but in the end, it doesn't matter that they cleared things up. There is no way Alicent would have known about the prophecy to assume that the Aegon Viserys was referring to was the Conqueror, and at this point, it's actually too late, although I don't think Rhaenyra realized until this specific breaking point.
This is so heartbreaking for Rhaenyra, all because she dared to be Queen. The way she started crying thinking her father really chose her younger brother over her. If I was Rhaenys I’d be proud of Rhaenyra still not backing down, fighting for a claim they either had right to or deserved far more than the alternative men chosen.
Such a pity they cut the best bits when the music started at the end. The music track with this haunting, yearning-like woman voice combined with the upper shot of the altar and then close up on Rhaenyra face were so beautiful, you could feel the sense of now inevitable tragedy.
I do not envy the position the writers found themselves in, because clearly narratively they wanted and needed this scene to happen (and its a great scene and accomplishes a lot), but to achieve it they somehow need to place these 2 characters in a scene together, which is almost impossible to do. I personally cant think of a way to do it. They picked this approach of Rhaenyra sneaking into KL but its a clunky solution, any solution would be clunky and contrived here. The risk rhaenyra takes here is just weirdly too high for the leader of an opposing side and breaks believability a bit. Any other character sneaking into KL works but not rhaenyra. Still, the scene itself is great and clears up a lot for both sides narratively before the start of a full on war, i just wish there was a better way to get to it.
@@ergohash2517 to be fair this isn't the first time Rhaenyra has done something incredibly reckless like this--remember when she dared Daemon to kill her if he really cared more about the throne than her in ep 2 of last season? Still, she was much younger then, and she seems to have *mostly* grown out of that sort of recklessness... but maybe her bond with Alicent brings it out of her.
@@ghostofdurruti True. Plus, Rhaenyra said it so herself that it must be her who should talk to Alicent, not anyone else, to be as convincing as possible.
Narratively they did not need this scene to happen, remember the line from Rheanys about" forgetting the reason the war started in the first place " forgetting about the misinterpretation of veserys word's would have been a perfect pay off to that.
Only the heir is suppose to know that story. That proved everything at that moment. That she was indeed heir if he ever changed his mind he would've told alicient or aegon about the story but he didn't... Remember when aliceint attacked rhaenrya?, that knife and the symbols on it ??? @@judigemini178
While this might be really unrealistic and something out of fanfiction, I think it's needed for continuity. So Alicent knows she made a mistake with naming Aegon as king and having to live with it. But on the other hand, Alicent never revealing what Viserys said to Rhaenyra and all of it being a misunderstanding would've been further tragic too.
I mean, because Fire and Blood is a fairly biased retelling of the Dance, it leaves a lot of room for interpretation on the showrunners' part. There have been some eh moments but I liked this because it really kept that fictional scenario aspect alive for me. And let's be honest, we've all been looking for excuses to see Rhaenyra and Alicent on screen again because their actors have insane chemistry.
It's not unrealistic, Kings landing is dependent on trade so they're not going to cut everyone off from kings landing people still enter and leave kings landing
@@voluntarism335You failed to understand why this scene is unrealistic. A rival claimant to a throne would never go undercover alone to a meeting with his rival. It's insanely stupid and risky. Imagine if Henry Tudor went to speak with Richard III undercover in London with no one by his side. This is Season 8 writing here. To see major cracks like this in the show's writing this early on is alarming to say the least.
Soo Epi. 1 had Daemon sneaking into Kingslanding Episode 2 had Arryk sneaking into Dragon stone Episode 3 had Rhaenyra sneaking into Kingslanding...Who’s sneaking into where in episode 4?
i kinda like that Rhaenyra now knows that Alicent misinterpreted things. but i prefer Alicent not knowing she made a mistake. lol. i guess we have to sacrifice one story or another.
Alicent misinterpreting Viserys didn't contribute to anything. Otto and council already planned to sit Aegon on the throne, the plan was already set in motion. In fact, it all started when Otto made her marry Viserys and when he brainwashed her into thinking her children are "owed" the throne. Otto didn't even believe thay Viserys had said this, we could see it in previous episode. So it didn't really matter, Alicent was also just a pawn. Both misinterpretation and this scene were added purely for dramatic effect and if you think of it don't really make sense, besides showing their great acting.
what? the whole reason for Rhaenyra meeting with Alicent was to know if war was the only option. This scene is Rhaenyra's attempt at suing for peace. but she realizes she is truly meant to be heir. it is her who Viserys believes will do her duty to Aegon the Conqueror's Dream. DUH!
@@LilPeachBooty The theft of her throne and the murder of lucerys should have been enough for any realistic portail of a mother and a entitled princess.
I think some people are complaining about this scene because it's proof that Daemon could have gotten to Aemond himself, and didn't have to hide behind those idiots. In other words, it's proof that the "Great Wonder and Terror of his time" is a total phony.
I don't think Daemon truly wanted Aemond (or anyone else) dead. He's impatient and belligerant, he felt left out by his brother Viserys, and so he craves for an opportunity to prove his worth in battle. He was just looking for a way to kickstart the war, and took Rhaenyra's words ("I want Aemond Targaryen") as the perfect excuse to do it. The outcome of Blood and Cheese didn't really matter to him: sure, if they were able to kill Aemond, it would have been great for the blacks, and the fact that they managed to kill the Jaeherys caused enough trouble to accelerate the events, but even if they were caught before they could have killed anyone, they would have been questioned and his plan would have been discovered. The fact alone that two assassins were able to infiltrate the Red Keep and threaten the lives of the royal family would have been enough to cause a reaction. That's why he sent them instead of going himself: he wanted them to be caught. The fact that they actually managed to kill Jaeherys was just the cherry on top that truly made the war inevitable, and that's all that he wanted.
This is the dumbest scene in the show. After Rhaenyra lost her son and she was almost killed, she goes to the enemies land unprotected in disguise to talk. Alicent also doesn't call guards after that to capture an important prisoner and enemy.
i know some ppl dont like this scene, 'how did rhaenyra get there' blah blah. well she got there and things are about to be super super sad going forward. least she knows that she tried. love this
People aren't criticising this scene over 'how' Rhaenyra got to King's Landing, they're criticising how contrived and illogical the entire setup is. I don't see how Rhaenyra thought Alicent would be receptive of her when the public opinion is that she ordered her grandson to be assassinated. Alicent could've just ordered the guards to arrest Rhaenyra and use her as a bargaining chip in the war the moment she left the sept. Additionally, even if Alicent did decide to randomly agree to the terms outlined, she wouldn't have been able to do anything since she no longer has any power. The realm is already at war. It began when Lucerys was killed.
@@turnip9367 Alicent knows Rhaenyra didn’t order an assasin, they used to be best friends, they know each other… Of course they’re gonna give each other a chance to explain
@@turnip9367 i respond to that to literally rhaenyra was right about her stupid journey bc alicent LET her be there. but i do agree at that point Alicent had no power, obv it was too far gone. think they wanted us to show rhaenyra had no other moves other than war
@@vilhelmstenbro5289 They were friends...15+ years ago. A lot has happened since then to drive them apart. They're no longer close, so it doesn't make sense why Alicent would listen to her. If the writers weren't butchering her character by making her incompetent, she would've imprisoned Rhaenyra and used her as a bargaining chil to negotiate an end to the war on terms favourable to the Greens.
@@michaelschaaf1155 problem is Rhaenyra already made that "this is war" face end of season 1. Then in season 2 she came back with Luke's remains and again made that "this is war" face and said "Bring me Aemond". Now we're halfway into the season and she's still trying to make peace with the stupidest of moves where Alicent could easily have her captured after she left the sept. The show is trying way too hard to show the men in her council as warmongers and the woman trying all she can to keep the peace.
Don't get the hate this scene was good. Also don't get why so many are hating on Alicent, how is she supposed to know Viserys was talking about the Conqueror? Also Otto and the council were already planning to usurp the throne without Alicent so what did yall expect her to do then and now cause its late and they won't care what she says either way.
The acting was superb. But the scene did not make any sense. Why would Rhaenyra risk everything? Why would Alicent not betray her right there? There is no way any of them would have known that. And they both are idiots: one for putting herself into danger and the other one for not delivering potentially a crippling blow to a mortal enemy of her sons. They could have done that with letters and voice acting or some other way... But the way the scene happened was absurd.
I'm a really great fan of this show but this scene was terrible to be honest... The writing was off a little bit in this episode but this comedy scene in the end was disappointing
People hate it because it should never have happened. Rhaenyra is an idiot for going to hostile territory on her own without a backup plan and Alicent is an idiot for not capturing her then and there. Why Rhaenyra thought she could avert the war even after her husband ordered the assassination of Aegon's son and heir, I don't know. The scene's logical literally falls apart if you think about it longer than two seconds. Plus, it didn't really serve a purpose since both knew war was inevitable and they already had their catalysts for escalating it.
It’s part of the tragedy - it didn’t matter what was happening between them, the MEN had already decided. As to some people not liking it or whatever, ignore them.
@@turnip9367Because when emotions and history (in relationships) are involved, people make the most rational decisions, right? This and responses like it are all akin to “if that was me I would have done A, B, or C.” When in reality- you’ve never been in that situation, and more importantly you have absolutely no idea as to how you would actually behave. Notice that despite the bad blood, they clearly care for one another and know the other deep down in spite of everything that has happened. The writers are filling in the gaps and canonizing the actual events despite the BOOK’s biased 3rd hand accounts.
The problem was Rhaenyra should have never left court she allowed the green faction to have complete influence in the Capitol when she should have lobbied to be named hand of the king to her father.
yes and no, i agree that she should have made more allies and tried harder to have more political influence over the other lords and ladies instead of just relying on viserys’ naming her heir.. which in her defense works if she’s male but even then makes her rule more tumultuous and creates more enemies that will want to undermine or usurp (because mysaria and daemon are just speaking simple truth when they say whether even the people know it or not, they give the royals power and if a ruler is hated enough they can and probably will be replaced) but i blame viserys for her political incompetence as well. if he was going to name her he should have at least done more to see to it that she was educated in politics and war.. you know instead of making her royal cupbearer. cause if she was male none of that “don’t interrupt us” bs would’ve went down that way. they still wouldn’t have taken her as serious as the king but she would have had more respect. but then, viserys was rather politically incompetent himself so there’s that. she should have learned from someone though, like lyonel or even otto if he was going to stick around, but because otto is otto he still would have at least tried the coup so she needed to go off on her own and make strong allie’s. daemons help wouldn’t have hurt either because he did help to being allie’s to viserys side during the succession dispute. this way she has loyalists and some level of an army so the coup is harder. but if she doesn’t do this staying in KL would have been more dangerous which is how and why it plays out the way it does in the show. poor rhaenyra was very naive. with her being a woman she was always going to have to fight twice as hard to prove herself but instead bought into viserys’ nonsense that the lords must just obey them. like yes, but you have to incentivize and enforce that. of which they did basically neither. one of the worst things viserys did was marry her to laenor. he should have married laena and we’d rhaenyra to a lannister. or even a hightower. or even daemon. just someone that makes her claim stronger not just in wealth and name but actual power and allegiance.
people say this scene was pointless but it's really not. rhaenyra cares more about the prophecy and her father's belief that a targaryen should sit the throne during the long night, more than people think. she loved her father and wanted to honor his wish when he chose her to bear it. but the thought of him changing his mind last minute is something she could've come to terms to, and frankly i think she could've gave up her claim if it weren't for this scene. she wanted peace before war. she got her clarity from this scene. now she knows that her father did not indeed change his mind so she'll be willing to sacrifice to get her her line back on her rightful throne. it's her purpose to fulfill it in the name of her father.
@@enlighten92 how, if she was not present when her father died? he wasn't in the room when he "changed his mind". only in this scene she learned his exact final words, realizing alicent misinterpreted.
yeahh and this to me makes it even more tragic. Cause Rhaenyra would have actually made a good ruler. The way she cares more about people than power, the way looks for other solutions than a war who could severely damage her family and kill thousands of people when she could have already gone mad..
if Rhaenyra really wanted a peaceful transition of power, she could've talk to Aegon instead. At this time, Jaehaerys has been brutally murdered and he thinks his sister is responsible. Aegon now wants to declare war not just for the crown but for vengeance. There is no possible terms to be discussed to convince Aegon to give up the throne unless the blacks defeat the greens in war. That's the reality of this situation.
This is why I loved this show as it can have a rich scene like this between two friends unable to look past the mistake mades. Played beautifully by two actors who embodies these characters to perfection.
I may have to rewatch the episode but even if Alicent wasn’t around for the confusion with Viserys, what difference would it have made? Her father and the rest of the council where already plotting to put Aegon on the throne and again she’s a women and all. Did she really have any power back then that could’ve made a difference? Can someone explain to me if alicent not getting confused really would’ve made a difference in the end. This just seems to drive the tragedy between Rhaenyra and Alicent relationship
Correct. Otto had been planning to put Aegon on the thrones for years by that point. He married his daughter to the king in the hope that she could give him male heirs, which she did, and from there he kept plotting for his side of the family to get the throne instead of Rhaenyra's. The very fact that his name is Aegon is a direct callback to Aegon the Conqueror, so that he could have a stronger claim and legitimacy later (remember the coronation scene at the end of season 1: they specifically made a point when addressing the smallfolk that he had the same name of the Conqueror and wore the same armor and weapons, so that was intentional as well). Alicent's misunderstanding of Viserys' words was just the final nail in the coffin that gave him an excuse to proceed with his plans, but if that never happened he would have found another way. Alicent herself was well aware that her son was unfit to rule, but Viserys' words reassured her that what she was plotting with her father was the morally correct choice. But now, with this revelation, her world has crumbled around her and we'll see how her character evolves. What's for sure, though, is that, as she said, now war is inevitable. Even after this bombshell, children have already died, armies are already marching, dragons have already flown... It's too late to go back.
It doesn't make any difference. Otto forged this path from years and years ago ...I think they're just trying to make alicent look as bad as possible and pandering to team black as much as they can
yeah they clearly are. People don't want to admit it but the show is somehow about them too..they have such a deap, complex and tragic relationship..and the actresses have incredible chemistry
Now your pretty hands will be stained with the blood of thousands, Alicent, as a result of your actions. But the truly sad thing is that it wouldn't have mattered if Alicent had heard Viserys' last words or not. Her father and his bastion of traitors were planning on usurping Rhaenyra and crowning Aegon anyway.
I love how the changes in Rhaenyra's mood is the opposite of what happens to Theon in Game of Thrones. In GoT, Ramsay lets Ramsay escape the Dreadfort, giving him hope, and then this hope is quickly transformed into hopelessness and despair when he is lured back to the Dreadfort. Here, in this scene of HotD, it is the opposite: Rhaenyra is fully convinced that Viserys meant for her to be his successor. But this belief is shattered when Alicent, on the other hand, is fully convinced that Viserys changed his mind at the last moment. You can see Rhaenyra shedding tears when Alicent tells her this; some part of her believes what Alicent just told her. But her convictions are then restored and further strengthened when she realizes Alicent misunderstood what Viserys said. So the parallells between Theon and Rhaenyra are: Theon: Despair --> Hope --> Strengthened Despair Rhaenyra: Hope --> Despair --> Strengthened Hope
0:16 is why this scene didn't happen in the books. Of course he wanted Rhaenyra! In the books the Greens never cared about what Viserys wanted. As far as they were concerned, by the customs and established precedents in the Targaryen dynasty, Aegon had the best claim, and who was Viserys to effectively disinherit all his Hightower sons for no reason?
"He changed his mind" Yeah, on his death bed when he was delirious with pain and meds after years of not changing his mind. Alicent made a choice then and now she can't take it back
Otto planed this for Years . And It would have happened anyways. Because the seven kingdom would never accept a woman to lead them . King aegon IS the first born son and therefore the rightful heir
Cette scène est très importante car c’est la fin de la Rhaenyra conciliante et qui veut la paix. Alicent va regretté son arrogance car elle profite clairement du fait qu’elle pense que Rhaenyra est faible. Moi je crois qu’elle n’est pas faible du tout et qu’elle va être pire que Daemon 😂… ils vont regretter Rhaenyra la calme et gentille.
Je ne pense pas qu'elle se dise qu'elle est faible mais en effet elle ne la pense pas capable de commettre des actes aussi horribles. Je pense qu'elle sera surprise comme tu dis et qu'elle aura pardon et cherchera la paix
To be honest I was really disappointed by this scene... We and they all know that the war can not be stopped because if Rhaenyra or Alicent dies their "husbands" and sons will take over the situation... The dumbest scene of the show so far even if I think the first season was amazing this one starts pretty weak. Plus it was poorly written compared to the 2nd episode's Daemon vs Rhaenyra scene.
They already passed the point of no return. Alicent in this moment realized she messed up, but at that point who would believe her? Even if she said something would Aegon who lost his son give the person he believed murdered his child the throne?
What was it for? Why did they add something that didn't even come close to happening in the book? Second season and i still can't understand why showrunners decided to whitewash the blacks while in the book both parts where mad, bloodthirsty and deserved each other.
@@rfm2006 but now we have a Disney fairytale about a poor, innocent Cinderella (Rhaenira and other blacks) and an evil stepmother (Alicent and greens)😆
She knows she lies…Otto whored her out to a vulnerable Viserys and she knew it… and she knew he facilitated for her kids to take the throne when he checked out…
Which doesn’t make sense. You would think from a writing perspective, the death of her son would have been the igniter but instead she’s been on the fence and has actively undermined her counsel from pursuing an offensive. Mind you they have taken a massive gamble by taking her side. She’s been pretty frustrating to watch this season.
I'm Team Rhaenyra till the end but she kinda did an oopsie here as well. Like, if she were to have read that letter from Alicent from the start and decided to meet up with her, all of this could have prevented.
That was incredibly stupid of Rhaenyra. Even if she convinced Alicent, what on Earth could Alicent possibly do? Tell Aegon: "Oops, I misunderstood your father's last words, actually you should abdicate and throw yourself at the mercy of those who had your son murdered in his bed?" Rhaenyra is risking her life for a scheme that has zero chance of working.
alicent knew what she was doing when she named her son heir. she knew nyra was the rightful heir and that viserys believed so, she just used his dying words to justify her ambition.
Am I the only one who thinks this scene was utter bs? What in the world makes her think that it is a good idea to get into the lands of enemy? That was probably the stupidest thing ever I've seen.
Book Rhaenyra spared Alicent Hightower once she took the city and I never understood why. This scene will help that adaptation. Alicent is unsure about about Aegon and Aemonds thirst for bloodshed. Makes her look more innocent than she is. It’ll explain why Ottos head is taken but hers is not.
Because killing Alicent or Heliena will make her look so bad in the eyes of the people and they are not setting on the throne or represent any threat plus if I'm not mistaken Alicent accepted her as queen.
right after all this Rhaenyra will still love Alicent as her old friend and understood where she is coming from and also she also feel remorseful for what happened to Haelena that is why she never executed them.
Book rhaenyra literally said why she spared alicent: her father loved her. She also spared helaena because she was the only sibling she considered an innocent.
@@Groovybiha wait a bit 🙄 she is a mother and she is supposed to be a ruler. A good ruler doesn't let her emotions take the lead. Y'all are forgetting she isn't fighting a common opponent but her own family ☠️ and the weapons are dragons which are massive destruction weapons. It could litteraly lead to the downfall of their family ☠️☠️
Love to know whose idea it was to have bits of the Serbian Orthodox liturgy as background noise in the sept of the seven! (Meanwhile, this is what comes of not telling the whole family of the prophecy.)
She had obvious bastards and thought gaslighting everyone with eyes was a clever way to hide it. Then, she thought Daemon Targaryen was husband material. She was never that smart.
Liars often think they can will fallacy into reality by repeating their lies. "Your father changed his mind. Your father changed his mind. Your father changed his mind."
This is a truism that's plainly evident in modern times (cough Tr*mp cough), but you're categorically wrong in applying it to Alicent. A liar has to know that what they're saying is wrong. Alicent believes that Viserys' words were applied to their son because she was never told The Song of Ice & Fire; she has no reason to think her husband is referring to some cryptic prophecy about Aegon the Conqueror. She's not repeating *her* lie, she recites what Viserys said, but unfortunately she's mistaken in the meaning. There is a blatant difference between the two.
I honestly believe that Alicent knew Viserys wasn’t talking about their son in his last moments alive and still wanted Rhaenerya to take the throne. After all, Rhaenerya here confirms it was just a story he was talking about but Alicent still didn’t show any interest in caring. She would’ve stopped at nothing to have Aegon be the king because of what Otto filled her head with.
I’m calling it now: the sept scene is going to be one of those moments that people religiously defend at the time because they’re blinded by the hype of the show, but in retrospect, will be viewed as one of the most illogical, weakest scenes of the entire story, just like how the perception of many scenes in the later seasons of GOT changed with time.
Such a dumb scene, I love Olivia and Emma together but there is no logic behind the scene. Rhaenyra can't risk using her dragon to fight but she sneaks unguarded into an area where Alicent's bodyguards are just outside the door, something even riskier? She'd never make it out alive. Tired of the lack of common sense in this show.
I am such a big fan of HotD but so far they have just been making bad writing calls. Like I loved the first season and I understand that every adaption is different. But why aren't you following logic? Like no queen would go to enemy territory alone. In fact they wouldn't even send Aegon on his dragon😅. The writing goes against itself. The whole point of Luke's death was there was no going back. Has Rhaneyra forgotten that?🥴
Queens are not a monolith, they do not all think alike, she is the daughter of Visery's the peaceful and she is trying to avoid a war, Aegon not going into enemy territory alone is because he would probably get killed and is not made for it. There is nothing contradictory here. Kings landing is reliant on trade so they are going to allow people to enter and leave kings landing and they're not going to stop literally everyone from leaving or entering, sure there would be more security ie guards but those guards don't know what Rhaenyra looks like, most people have never seen her face. You cannot possibly know that there is no way back, last time Rhaenyra saw Alicent she was able to make decisions about what the kingdom was doing, that changed but Rhaenyra didn't know that, you forget that characters are not omniscient in the show.
This is when Alicent realized the big mistake she made, people from this universe need to stop named their kids the same name
THATS WHAT I SAID WHEN WATCHING THIS EPISODE!!
That's why we named the kids after the things we love. Say hello to our boy Dragon Age Origins and our girl Mad Max: Fury Road.
This was irrelevant, Otto and gang were plotting anyways.
it was at this moment she realized... she uffed up
@@jacksonperez5615 well yeah, but still
“It's hard to put a leash on a dog once you've put a crown on its head.” - Tyrion
Indeed.
KING AEGON II TARGARYEN：“My father is dead.”
SER OTTO HIGHTOWER：“He is. And we are the poorer for it. He was right about you.”
KING AEGON II TARGARYEN：“He made me king.”
_Ser_ _Otto_ _chuckles_ _derisively_ _as_ _Aegon_ _the_ _Elder_ _looks_ _on_ _in_ _fury_
SER OTTO HIGHTOWER：“Is that what you THINK?”
(❝Rhaenyra The Cruel❞ 51:29-52:08)
Yes rhenera IS the dog
Joffrey was a coward. King Aegon II doesn't mind dying in a battle.
@@Papaty25 king aegon the second IS very concerned about his people and wanted to help them . That was very clear in the first episode of s2 . Joffrey Cares only about himself and he didnt Care about the people AT all .
@@دمالأسد-ب4ص That's what I said bro. In the books, Aegon is brave and wants to defend his family at the cost of his life.
3:03 it was in this moment that Alicent’s entire point of view came smashing down and her son was never meant to be King
It's dumb that they made that her point of view in the first place rather than giving her actual motivations to want to put Aegon on the throne. They replaced them with some misunderstanding for no good reason.
Nope. You must have watched the first season with your eyes and ears covered because it's explicitly mentioned several times that the Greens, namely Otto, were always planning to seat Aegon on the throne because Viserys was going against historical precedent when he named his daughter over his eldest son. Misconstruing Viserys' last words was just an excuse Alicent used to justify her role in the scheme on morally righteous grounds.
@@turnip9367 Yes. but the writers kind of forgot about Season 1
@@turnip9367 this! there has never been a female ruler but IRL politics got in the way. Aegon was planned regardless.
A lot of money and time wasted misleading ppl with this sidequest when that money could have been spent on missing plotlines/chars/other dragons.
@@JUANORYESthe writers or just simply the viewers? Cause Rhaenyra have literally called out Alicent on being self-righteous and a liar in scenes before. It’s the audience who are literally being manipulated by the greens themselves because Alicent is literally a pos who just what’s her son to be king but she’s too religious to admit she permitted sacrilege.
Its tragic. There's literally nothing that can be done now. Alicent wasn't dismissing Rhaenyra, she simply stated a fact, she can't do anything, she has no power or voice here anymore. I feel for both ladies. Now there can only be war and losses over nothing. A story.
Yup. Aegon will never give up the throne and Rhaenrya risked her life to plead with her former friend for peace to prevent a war and thousands of deaths. But it's too late. 😢
She did both
The war would have started anyway, Alicent didn't have voice to begin with, she was just Otto's pawn. Otto started all this when he made her marry Viserys and set her against Rhaenyra
The war didn’t start over nothing it started because it f the murder of two children
@@yevgeniyaleshchenko849she had some power that short time after Viserys death. She could have had that whole council imprisoned for their treacherous planning on the usurping of the throne that she was made unaware of. At that time the kingsguard was still hers to command and they would have lostened had she told them to throw them all in the dungeon.
When i Saw rhaenyra in that outfit the first word that comes to my mind is "shame"
Mine Is: but she Is even hottier! She'll attract all men's attenction!
Same!
“Confess “
“Confess”
“Confess “
😂😂😂😂
Shame..... Shame.... Shame....
The handmaid's tale
Eesaa
😊zx@@bgos4727
"he was weary and hard to understand but I'm sure he meant whatever gibberish he said"
"For 20 years he ferociously defended Rhaenyra's claim but he changed his mind in the last 5 minutes while losing his mind in agonizing pain."
lmao exactly this!
Exactly! Ali-quarter on the slow bus
I think deep down Alicent knew that was not what he meant just like how her specific question to Rhaenyra was did Daemon dishonour you? She knows in both cases what the truth is [in the latter case she overlooks the loophole] but her worst instincts and own desires take over.
@@manthe3711You are so right..He wasn't in his right mind
This is simultaneously the funniest and most tragic thing.
The acting is brilliant from these two. Felt like old times. The emotions, the delivery. Perfect.
I like how Rhaenyra talks to Alicent asking her as a friend and not as an enemy to correct her mistake, I also like how Alicent warns her to leave and not be discovered since Alicent could talk about Rhaenyra's presence at any time, especially after the conversation in which Rhaenyra and only she knows about Alicent's mistake
I like how you give us recap of the scene we all saw and heard. I also like how you think Alicent's "mistake" really meant anything... War would have started anyway
@@yevgeniyaleshchenko849bruh they're just saying what they like about the scene.. why you gotta be rude for
@@yevgeniyaleshchenko849 Don't be rude
I love the scene when alicent realized she f*** up. And.
She finally understood it was the story. And that her son was never post to be king..
this whole meeting i was yelling "ASK HER WHAT HE SAID"
So true. Missing the obvious conversation. Just to spice things up.
Emma and Olivia have such natural and intense chemistry I honestly don't blame the writers for finding ways for them to share scenes every now and then. It felt ages since they last shared scene so this is definitely well earned.
I think your just obsessed with these actors man listen to how you fawn over them
@@manwithballsonarm6775and ? ☠️
Probably because they’re both really good friends outside of the show. In truth, emma only has good chemistry when they are with olivia.
@@Groovybiha I do think that this cast have good chemistry with one another. Emma and Matt, Olivia and Rhys are also some great duos.
@@manwithballsonarm6775At least OP doesn’t have balls on their arm
That tear drop when Rhaenyra realised that maybe she really has lost her legitimate claim, as her father took Aegon's name in his dying moments. 🥲🥲🥲
I just love how older Alicent and Rhaenyra are in the exact same positions they were when they prayed there as younger children in episode 2, season 1. Gotta love Rhaenyra’s reaction when she realized Viserys was referring to Aegon the Conqueror and not Aegon her brother. Alicent had to know Rhaenyra would have made a much better ruler. All of this occurred through Alicent’s mistake, but also Otto’s manipulations and planning behind the scenes
Alicent mishearing Viserys didn't contribute to anything as Otto paved the way for this decades ago. They would have STILL put Aegon on the throne. Otto made Alicent marry Viserys, Otto then made her think that her children absolutely have to sit the throne, otto didn't even believe what Alicent said and was already plotting to usurp the throne. That mishearing bit was only added for dramatic effect but the war was already on the way. So not "also Otto's manipulations" but mainly because of Otto's manipulations, dear
These two are really the heart of the show. When they come together, it's so powerful. This scene was the best in the series so far. Incredible acting
YES. From the beginning scene of season 1 episode 1 it was established that this show, its plot, is ultimately centered around these two women and their relationship.
Emma has become one of my favourite actors in the entire franchise and in such a short time span too. Incredible talent that only seems to be getting better with each episode.
this was an acting masterclass, the facial expressions alone were sooo good.
@@30251’’ He changed his mind, Rhanyra >_______> He changed his mind :|||| >_> ‘’
Ramin's score at the end was simply sublime
Yup, when the girl sang her highest note, that was when Rhaenyra looked up and thought to herself "It's war, dragons and all"
@@ROYAL_REBELespecially when Rhaneyra said “a terrible war is looming” I just feel the upcoming massacre 💔
Agreed!!!! It really set the tone for the fighting that's going to follow this episode!!
Oh my god right it made the air stand up on my arms
@@MeleysTessarion Yes,
"A terrible war is looming, and even victory may be so bloody as to be counted a loss."
The fear in her voice while pleading with Alicent to stop the war, knowing well it would claim thousands of lives, including theirs.
HBO shouldn't have cut out the last part; the music and Rhaenyra's expression sent chills down my spine.
Emma D'Arcy is incredible in this scene and in the entire series. What an actress, haven't been so mesmerised by a new acting talent for a long time.
Not an actress as they are trans/ non-binary, but yes - extremely talented person :)
@@izilovesstarmieEmma definitely got nominated for an Emmy for best ACTRESS for the role of Rhaenyra so it’s completely acceptable to call Emma an actress. Unless you’d rather Emma never win any awards for the incredible portrayal of a female character….
This is why we require written or wills with evidence and witnesses now
Imagine Otto's reaction to this. He would get a stroke seeing Alicent letting her go. He was mocking Aegon's plan, because he wasn't familiar with Rhaenyra's game.
I hope he does find out about this. I hope Daemon does too, they'd both have strokes.
This scene was a roller coaster of truth. They both trust each other's words despite their differences, but in the end, it doesn't matter that they cleared things up. There is no way Alicent would have known about the prophecy to assume that the Aegon Viserys was referring to was the Conqueror, and at this point, it's actually too late, although I don't think Rhaenyra realized until this specific breaking point.
This is so heartbreaking for Rhaenyra, all because she dared to be Queen. The way she started crying thinking her father really chose her younger brother over her. If I was Rhaenys I’d be proud of Rhaenyra still not backing down, fighting for a claim they either had right to or deserved far more than the alternative men chosen.
If only Aegon was named Garry or Steve..... All of this woulda been avoided. King Gazza or King Stevo has a nice ring to it though
Indeed. Gazza and Stevo are pretty catchy.
King Stev-o of the Andals and First Men, first of his name-o
@matthewriffel188 the First men and andles had a king and steve-o was his name-o. S-T-E-V-E-O.
Such a pity they cut the best bits when the music started at the end. The music track with this haunting, yearning-like woman voice combined with the upper shot of the altar and then close up on Rhaenyra face were so beautiful, you could feel the sense of now inevitable tragedy.
I do not envy the position the writers found themselves in, because clearly narratively they wanted and needed this scene to happen (and its a great scene and accomplishes a lot), but to achieve it they somehow need to place these 2 characters in a scene together, which is almost impossible to do. I personally cant think of a way to do it. They picked this approach of Rhaenyra sneaking into KL but its a clunky solution, any solution would be clunky and contrived here. The risk rhaenyra takes here is just weirdly too high for the leader of an opposing side and breaks believability a bit. Any other character sneaking into KL works but not rhaenyra. Still, the scene itself is great and clears up a lot for both sides narratively before the start of a full on war, i just wish there was a better way to get to it.
@@ergohash2517 to be fair this isn't the first time Rhaenyra has done something incredibly reckless like this--remember when she dared Daemon to kill her if he really cared more about the throne than her in ep 2 of last season? Still, she was much younger then, and she seems to have *mostly* grown out of that sort of recklessness... but maybe her bond with Alicent brings it out of her.
Narratively it would've been better later when more damage had been done and when Rhaenyra officially comes to the city.
@@ghostofdurruti True. Plus, Rhaenyra said it so herself that it must be her who should talk to Alicent, not anyone else, to be as convincing as possible.
Narratively they did not need this scene to happen, remember the line from Rheanys about" forgetting the reason the war started in the first place " forgetting about the misinterpretation of veserys word's would have been a perfect pay off to that.
On the other side it fits to a Targaryan better than most other aristocrats in fiction, they always had a potential for recklessness.
That moment Rhaenyra fully realized Alicent was slow
To be fair, she had no other context for what Viserys was talking about. It's reasonable that she believed what she did.
She never thought that, she probably still respects her immensly and has pity for her
@@AWSVids Surely she would know better. She even said so herself, Viserys rambled and was hard to understand
She's "slow" for never being told this info & viserys never telling anyone other than his spoiled favorite child about the prophecy???...ok 🤦♀️
Only the heir is suppose to know that story. That proved everything at that moment. That she was indeed heir if he ever changed his mind he would've told alicient or aegon about the story but he didn't... Remember when aliceint attacked rhaenrya?, that knife and the symbols on it ??? @@judigemini178
While this might be really unrealistic and something out of fanfiction, I think it's needed for continuity. So Alicent knows she made a mistake with naming Aegon as king and having to live with it. But on the other hand, Alicent never revealing what Viserys said to Rhaenyra and all of it being a misunderstanding would've been further tragic too.
I mean, because Fire and Blood is a fairly biased retelling of the Dance, it leaves a lot of room for interpretation on the showrunners' part. There have been some eh moments but I liked this because it really kept that fictional scenario aspect alive for me. And let's be honest, we've all been looking for excuses to see Rhaenyra and Alicent on screen again because their actors have insane chemistry.
It's not unrealistic, Kings landing is dependent on trade so they're not going to cut everyone off from kings landing people still enter and leave kings landing
@@mvdum29 I'm just happy I got to see Rhaenyra in hijab. I dont know why it's so entertaining to me 😂😍
@@voluntarism335You failed to understand why this scene is unrealistic. A rival claimant to a throne would never go undercover alone to a meeting with his rival. It's insanely stupid and risky. Imagine if Henry Tudor went to speak with Richard III undercover in London with no one by his side.
This is Season 8 writing here. To see major cracks like this in the show's writing this early on is alarming to say the least.
@@voluntarism335it is unrealistic and cringe
Soo Epi. 1 had Daemon sneaking into Kingslanding
Episode 2 had Arryk sneaking into Dragon stone
Episode 3 had Rhaenyra sneaking into Kingslanding...Who’s sneaking into where in episode 4?
and Daemon sneaking into Harrenhal
@@marcelofa89 😅
Next episode is more about who is sneaking up on who
and Ser Cristan sneaking into Alicent
@@hootemanny1165 into her groves?
I love Alicent's reaction, her whole world collapsed as she realized her mistake.
i kinda like that Rhaenyra now knows that Alicent misinterpreted things. but i prefer Alicent not knowing she made a mistake. lol. i guess we have to sacrifice one story or another.
Alicent should have known better than to take to heart the words of a man seconds away from passing.
Alicent misinterpreting Viserys didn't contribute to anything. Otto and council already planned to sit Aegon on the throne, the plan was already set in motion. In fact, it all started when Otto made her marry Viserys and when he brainwashed her into thinking her children are "owed" the throne. Otto didn't even believe thay Viserys had said this, we could see it in previous episode. So it didn't really matter, Alicent was also just a pawn. Both misinterpretation and this scene were added purely for dramatic effect and if you think of it don't really make sense, besides showing their great acting.
Allicent is a lot of things but brained washed is not one of them.
what? the whole reason for Rhaenyra meeting with Alicent was to know if war was the only option. This scene is Rhaenyra's attempt at suing for peace. but she realizes she is truly meant to be heir. it is her who Viserys believes will do her duty to Aegon the Conqueror's Dream. DUH!
@@LilPeachBooty The theft of her throne and the murder of lucerys should have been enough for any realistic portail of a mother and a entitled princess.
I think some people are complaining about this scene because it's proof that Daemon could have gotten to Aemond himself, and didn't have to hide behind those idiots. In other words, it's proof that the "Great Wonder and Terror of his time" is a total phony.
I don't think Daemon truly wanted Aemond (or anyone else) dead. He's impatient and belligerant, he felt left out by his brother Viserys, and so he craves for an opportunity to prove his worth in battle. He was just looking for a way to kickstart the war, and took Rhaenyra's words ("I want Aemond Targaryen") as the perfect excuse to do it. The outcome of Blood and Cheese didn't really matter to him: sure, if they were able to kill Aemond, it would have been great for the blacks, and the fact that they managed to kill the Jaeherys caused enough trouble to accelerate the events, but even if they were caught before they could have killed anyone, they would have been questioned and his plan would have been discovered. The fact alone that two assassins were able to infiltrate the Red Keep and threaten the lives of the royal family would have been enough to cause a reaction. That's why he sent them instead of going himself: he wanted them to be caught. The fact that they actually managed to kill Jaeherys was just the cherry on top that truly made the war inevitable, and that's all that he wanted.
@@Merione Still helps fit my head canon that he's a fraud.
This is season 8 level writing
Emma is such a great actor fr.
This is the dumbest scene in the show. After Rhaenyra lost her son and she was almost killed, she goes to the enemies land unprotected in disguise to talk. Alicent also doesn't call guards after that to capture an important prisoner and enemy.
Uhm, she knows that war will be inevitable and bloody and that'll cause the plot to end the season sooner than what it was planned on the series.
Hush, The Queens are speaking.
i know some ppl dont like this scene, 'how did rhaenyra get there' blah blah. well she got there and things are about to be super super sad going forward. least she knows that she tried. love this
People aren't criticising this scene over 'how' Rhaenyra got to King's Landing, they're criticising how contrived and illogical the entire setup is. I don't see how Rhaenyra thought Alicent would be receptive of her when the public opinion is that she ordered her grandson to be assassinated. Alicent could've just ordered the guards to arrest Rhaenyra and use her as a bargaining chip in the war the moment she left the sept. Additionally, even if Alicent did decide to randomly agree to the terms outlined, she wouldn't have been able to do anything since she no longer has any power. The realm is already at war. It began when Lucerys was killed.
@@turnip9367 Alicent knows Rhaenyra didn’t order an assasin, they used to be best friends, they know each other… Of course they’re gonna give each other a chance to explain
@@turnip9367 i respond to that to literally rhaenyra was right about her stupid journey bc alicent LET her be there. but i do agree at that point Alicent had no power, obv it was too far gone. think they wanted us to show rhaenyra had no other moves other than war
@@vilhelmstenbro5289 They were friends...15+ years ago. A lot has happened since then to drive them apart. They're no longer close, so it doesn't make sense why Alicent would listen to her. If the writers weren't butchering her character by making her incompetent, she would've imprisoned Rhaenyra and used her as a bargaining chil to negotiate an end to the war on terms favourable to the Greens.
@@michaelschaaf1155 problem is Rhaenyra already made that "this is war" face end of season 1. Then in season 2 she came back with Luke's remains and again made that "this is war" face and said "Bring me Aemond". Now we're halfway into the season and she's still trying to make peace with the stupidest of moves where Alicent could easily have her captured after she left the sept. The show is trying way too hard to show the men in her council as warmongers and the woman trying all she can to keep the peace.
Don't get the hate this scene was good. Also don't get why so many are hating on Alicent, how is she supposed to know Viserys was talking about the Conqueror? Also Otto and the council were already planning to usurp the throne without Alicent so what did yall expect her to do then and now cause its late and they won't care what she says either way.
The acting was superb. But the scene did not make any sense. Why would Rhaenyra risk everything? Why would Alicent not betray her right there? There is no way any of them would have known that. And they both are idiots: one for putting herself into danger and the other one for not delivering potentially a crippling blow to a mortal enemy of her sons.
They could have done that with letters and voice acting or some other way... But the way the scene happened was absurd.
I'm a really great fan of this show but this scene was terrible to be honest... The writing was off a little bit in this episode but this comedy scene in the end was disappointing
People hate it because it should never have happened. Rhaenyra is an idiot for going to hostile territory on her own without a backup plan and Alicent is an idiot for not capturing her then and there. Why Rhaenyra thought she could avert the war even after her husband ordered the assassination of Aegon's son and heir, I don't know. The scene's logical literally falls apart if you think about it longer than two seconds. Plus, it didn't really serve a purpose since both knew war was inevitable and they already had their catalysts for escalating it.
It’s part of the tragedy - it didn’t matter what was happening between them, the MEN had already decided. As to some people not liking it or whatever, ignore them.
@@turnip9367Because when emotions and history (in relationships) are involved, people make the most rational decisions, right? This and responses like it are all akin to “if that was me I would have done A, B, or C.” When in reality- you’ve never been in that situation, and more importantly you have absolutely no idea as to how you would actually behave. Notice that despite the bad blood, they clearly care for one another and know the other deep down in spite of everything that has happened.
The writers are filling in the gaps and canonizing the actual events despite the BOOK’s biased 3rd hand accounts.
What remarkable acting! Deft and subtle, and absolutely tragic.
The problem was Rhaenyra should have never left court she allowed the green faction to have complete influence in the Capitol when she should have lobbied to be named hand of the king to her father.
yes and no, i agree that she should have made more allies and tried harder to have more political influence over the other lords and ladies instead of just relying on viserys’ naming her heir.. which in her defense works if she’s male but even then makes her rule more tumultuous and creates more enemies that will want to undermine or usurp (because mysaria and daemon are just speaking simple truth when they say whether even the people know it or not, they give the royals power and if a ruler is hated enough they can and probably will be replaced) but i blame viserys for her political incompetence as well. if he was going to name her he should have at least done more to see to it that she was educated in politics and war.. you know instead of making her royal cupbearer. cause if she was male none of that “don’t interrupt us” bs would’ve went down that way. they still wouldn’t have taken her as serious as the king but she would have had more respect. but then, viserys was rather politically incompetent himself so there’s that. she should have learned from someone though, like lyonel or even otto if he was going to stick around, but because otto is otto he still would have at least tried the coup so she needed to go off on her own and make strong allie’s. daemons help wouldn’t have hurt either because he did help to being allie’s to viserys side during the succession dispute. this way she has loyalists and some level of an army so the coup is harder. but if she doesn’t do this staying in KL would have been more dangerous which is how and why it plays out the way it does in the show. poor rhaenyra was very naive. with her being a woman she was always going to have to fight twice as hard to prove herself but instead bought into viserys’ nonsense that the lords must just obey them. like yes, but you have to incentivize and enforce that. of which they did basically neither. one of the worst things viserys did was marry her to laenor. he should have married laena and we’d rhaenyra to a lannister. or even a hightower. or even daemon. just someone that makes her claim stronger not just in wealth and name but actual power and allegiance.
And that's why Rhaenyra is a dumbass. She had obvious bastards and then ran away to hide them.
people say this scene was pointless but it's really not. rhaenyra cares more about the prophecy and her father's belief that a targaryen should sit the throne during the long night, more than people think. she loved her father and wanted to honor his wish when he chose her to bear it. but the thought of him changing his mind last minute is something she could've come to terms to, and frankly i think she could've gave up her claim if it weren't for this scene. she wanted peace before war. she got her clarity from this scene. now she knows that her father did not indeed change his mind so she'll be willing to sacrifice to get her her line back on her rightful throne. it's her purpose to fulfill it in the name of her father.
She could have come to the realisation even without this scene.
@@enlighten92 how, if she was not present when her father died? he wasn't in the room when he "changed his mind". only in this scene she learned his exact final words, realizing alicent misinterpreted.
yeahh and this to me makes it even more tragic. Cause Rhaenyra would have actually made a good ruler. The way she cares more about people than power, the way looks for other solutions than a war who could severely damage her family and kill thousands of people when she could have already gone mad..
if Rhaenyra really wanted a peaceful transition of power, she could've talk to Aegon instead. At this time, Jaehaerys has been brutally murdered and he thinks his sister is responsible. Aegon now wants to declare war not just for the crown but for vengeance. There is no possible terms to be discussed to convince Aegon to give up the throne unless the blacks defeat the greens in war. That's the reality of this situation.
@@maximiniminimaxi7453 You obviously haven't read the book.
Alicent swearing on the memory of her mother as a callback to Rhaenyra swearing on the memory of her mother than Daemon didn't touch her aaaaaaaa
This is why I loved this show as it can have a rich scene like this between two friends unable to look past the mistake mades. Played beautifully by two actors who embodies these characters to perfection.
Asking to stop the war now is like trying to stop boulder rolling down a hill. There’s just no way it’s too late.
I may have to rewatch the episode but even if Alicent wasn’t around for the confusion with Viserys, what difference would it have made? Her father and the rest of the council where already plotting to put Aegon on the throne and again she’s a women and all. Did she really have any power back then that could’ve made a difference? Can someone explain to me if alicent not getting confused really would’ve made a difference in the end. This just seems to drive the tragedy between Rhaenyra and Alicent relationship
I was thinking the same thing… Who Alicent thinks should be on the iron throne would have made no difference at all to how things happened
Correct. Otto had been planning to put Aegon on the thrones for years by that point. He married his daughter to the king in the hope that she could give him male heirs, which she did, and from there he kept plotting for his side of the family to get the throne instead of Rhaenyra's. The very fact that his name is Aegon is a direct callback to Aegon the Conqueror, so that he could have a stronger claim and legitimacy later (remember the coronation scene at the end of season 1: they specifically made a point when addressing the smallfolk that he had the same name of the Conqueror and wore the same armor and weapons, so that was intentional as well). Alicent's misunderstanding of Viserys' words was just the final nail in the coffin that gave him an excuse to proceed with his plans, but if that never happened he would have found another way. Alicent herself was well aware that her son was unfit to rule, but Viserys' words reassured her that what she was plotting with her father was the morally correct choice. But now, with this revelation, her world has crumbled around her and we'll see how her character evolves. What's for sure, though, is that, as she said, now war is inevitable. Even after this bombshell, children have already died, armies are already marching, dragons have already flown... It's too late to go back.
I physically cannot rewatch the episode 😂 i tried twice already i keep on switching it off i always return to episode 2 though much better episode.
It doesn't make any difference. Otto forged this path from years and years ago ...I think they're just trying to make alicent look as bad as possible and pandering to team black as much as they can
Book Alicent had a lot of soft power. They really ruined her.
Viserys really should’ve written it down and made a public proclamation to the lords and the people that rhaenyra was his uncontested heir
@@torakunoichi if he was that bright, he would have sent Daemon to the Wall.
@@amorojaz27 he wouldn’t have gone and anyone who tried to touch him would die, he MIGHT go if Viserys had asked but I doubt it
@@torakunoichi but still, if Viserys had only had the guts to meaningfully punish him, Daemon would be less of a hindrance for the people around him.
Ding ding ding. The fault all lies with Viserys.
2:27 This scene makes me very emotional. Even in his last moment, Viserys talks about his daughter. He said she would be Aegon.
I love them both so much,can we put aside the team stuff and agree that they are the heart of the show?
yeah they clearly are. People don't want to admit it but the show is somehow about them too..they have such a deap, complex and tragic relationship..and the actresses have incredible chemistry
Now your pretty hands will be stained with the blood of thousands, Alicent, as a result of your actions.
But the truly sad thing is that it wouldn't have mattered if Alicent had heard Viserys' last words or not. Her father and his bastion of traitors were planning on usurping Rhaenyra and crowning Aegon anyway.
I love how the changes in Rhaenyra's mood is the opposite of what happens to Theon in Game of Thrones.
In GoT, Ramsay lets Ramsay escape the Dreadfort, giving him hope, and then this hope is quickly transformed into hopelessness and despair when he is lured back to the Dreadfort. Here, in this scene of HotD, it is the opposite: Rhaenyra is fully convinced that Viserys meant for her to be his successor. But this belief is shattered when Alicent, on the other hand, is fully convinced that Viserys changed his mind at the last moment. You can see Rhaenyra shedding tears when Alicent tells her this; some part of her believes what Alicent just told her. But her convictions are then restored and further strengthened when she realizes Alicent misunderstood what Viserys said.
So the parallells between Theon and Rhaenyra are:
Theon: Despair --> Hope --> Strengthened Despair
Rhaenyra: Hope --> Despair --> Strengthened Hope
I'm glad Allicent came to understand her mistake, even if it's too late to do anything about it.
0:16 is why this scene didn't happen in the books. Of course he wanted Rhaenyra!
In the books the Greens never cared about what Viserys wanted. As far as they were concerned, by the customs and established precedents in the Targaryen dynasty, Aegon had the best claim, and who was Viserys to effectively disinherit all his Hightower sons for no reason?
Aegon and his brothers are Targeyens,you don't call beala and rheana valaryons do you?
"He changed his mind"
Yeah, on his death bed when he was delirious with pain and meds after years of not changing his mind.
Alicent made a choice then and now she can't take it back
i didnt think they would actually have alicent realize her mistake, the acting was phenomenal
The moment Alicent realised she's potentially started a civil war because of a bedtime story....
Except the war would’ve happened regardless since the council planned this for years…
Otto planed this for Years . And It would have happened anyways. Because the seven kingdom would never accept a woman to lead them . King aegon IS the first born son and therefore the rightful heir
A striking performance by both actresses. Amazing.
2:56 That look! if only Alicent read on Targ history or culture she would've known these stories. That look said it all. "Girl, you didn't get it."
Only the ruling monarch and heir to the throne know about the story. Even Daemon didn't know about it. I doubt Alicent would've found it in a book.
Cette scène est très importante car c’est la fin de la Rhaenyra conciliante et qui veut la paix. Alicent va regretté son arrogance car elle profite clairement du fait qu’elle pense que Rhaenyra est faible. Moi je crois qu’elle n’est pas faible du tout et qu’elle va être pire que Daemon 😂… ils vont regretter Rhaenyra la calme et gentille.
Je ne pense pas qu'elle se dise qu'elle est faible mais en effet elle ne la pense pas capable de commettre des actes aussi horribles. Je pense qu'elle sera surprise comme tu dis et qu'elle aura pardon et cherchera la paix
“a terrible war is looming, and even victory could be so bloody as to be counted a loss” is SUCH a raw line, especially knowing how all this ends
In this time period, Aegon The Conqueror is basically their "mad king".
To be honest I was really disappointed by this scene... We and they all know that the war can not be stopped because if Rhaenyra or Alicent dies their "husbands" and sons will take over the situation... The dumbest scene of the show so far even if I think the first season was amazing this one starts pretty weak.
Plus it was poorly written compared to the 2nd episode's Daemon vs Rhaenyra scene.
😍😍😍 More scenes like this one please!
No thanks!
Man the acting, we need more shows at this level
They already passed the point of no return. Alicent in this moment realized she messed up, but at that point who would believe her?
Even if she said something would Aegon who lost his son give the person he believed murdered his child the throne?
What was it for? Why did they add something that didn't even come close to happening in the book? Second season and i still can't understand why showrunners decided to whitewash the blacks while in the book both parts where mad, bloodthirsty and deserved each other.
Fr, they're trying to make Rhaenyra a saint while all we want is to see her madness...
@@rfm2006 but now we have a Disney fairytale about a poor, innocent Cinderella (Rhaenira and other blacks) and an evil stepmother (Alicent and greens)😆
maybe because books and tv shows are two different things?
3:05 It was at that moment Alicent knew... She f***ed up. 😬
The prince that was promised soundtrack kicking in the very same moment they speak about him 🫡🔥❄️
I cherish these moments!!!! plz put these two often coz damnnnnnn their chemistry is chemistrying SOOOOOO HARD!
She knows she lies…Otto whored her out to a vulnerable Viserys and she knew it… and she knew he facilitated for her kids to take the throne when he checked out…
"For 20 years he ferociously defended Rhaenyra's claim but he changed his mind in the last 5 minutes while losing his mind in agonizing pain."
Alicent single handedly ensured the end of her bloodline
The hightowers still rule in oldtown by the start of thrones.
LA ACTUACIÓN y Ramin con ese pedazo de soundtrack, definitivamente esta serie se ha vulto una Joya 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Queen 👑 Rhaenyra try the best to prevent war😢
Which totally doesn't fit to her character at this point...
@@Hear.myvoice besides this is a series it won't be exactly like on the books.
@@Kamo766 I was talking about show Rhaenyra actually... I love her character and yes, she isn't a psychopath but it just not her anymore.
Is the "best" in the room with us?
Which doesn’t make sense. You would think from a writing perspective, the death of her son would have been the igniter but instead she’s been on the fence and has actively undermined her counsel from pursuing an offensive. Mind you they have taken a massive gamble by taking her side. She’s been pretty frustrating to watch this season.
Even though she realized she made a mistake, Alicent still convinced herself that Viserys changed his mind.
it's more that she tries to convince herself of that..
The candlemakers of King's Landing must be so rich!
Man, Olivia Cook's eyes alone could carry the whole scene. What a beauty and fantastic actress she is.
also rhaenyra literally went rogue in kings landing last season. it aint THAT crazy lol
I hope before their lives are over, and you know the end is gonna be tragic for both of them, Ali and Rhae get one last friendly moment together…
I'm Team Rhaenyra till the end but she kinda did an oopsie here as well. Like, if she were to have read that letter from Alicent from the start and decided to meet up with her, all of this could have prevented.
Thumbs up for not adding background music
That was incredibly stupid of Rhaenyra. Even if she convinced Alicent, what on Earth could Alicent possibly do? Tell Aegon: "Oops, I misunderstood your father's last words, actually you should abdicate and throw yourself at the mercy of those who had your son murdered in his bed?" Rhaenyra is risking her life for a scheme that has zero chance of working.
I really love how they act...
alicent knew what she was doing when she named her son heir. she knew nyra was the rightful heir and that viserys believed so, she just used his dying words to justify her ambition.
This scene is SOOOOOOOOOO good. I really don't care what others might thing, Olivia and Emma ATE here
Am I the only one who thinks this scene was utter bs? What in the world makes her think that it is a good idea to get into the lands of enemy? That was probably the stupidest thing ever I've seen.
Fr. Rhaenyra's plan doesn't make any sense, especially after B&C. War has already started.
Book Rhaenyra spared Alicent Hightower once she took the city and I never understood why. This scene will help that adaptation. Alicent is unsure about about Aegon and Aemonds thirst for bloodshed. Makes her look more innocent than she is. It’ll explain why Ottos head is taken but hers is not.
Because killing Alicent or Heliena will make her look so bad in the eyes of the people and they are not setting on the throne or represent any threat plus if I'm not mistaken Alicent accepted her as queen.
right after all this Rhaenyra will still love Alicent as her old friend and understood where she is coming from and also she also feel remorseful for what happened to Haelena that is why she never executed them.
@@NeilsonBuntowamother of Christ that is bad 💔
Book rhaenyra literally said why she spared alicent: her father loved her. She also spared helaena because she was the only sibling she considered an innocent.
Rhaenyra was badass when young..I can't believe what she has become..
please stop the war is just starting ☠️ Alicent used to be her friend, they are still attached to each other and the war have consequences
Personally, I think this is gutsier than anything Arya Stark did in 8 seasons of Game of Thrones.
They made her adult version so bland and passive, like where’s the Targaryen fury???
@@Groovybiha wait a bit 🙄 she is a mother and she is supposed to be a ruler. A good ruler doesn't let her emotions take the lead. Y'all are forgetting she isn't fighting a common opponent but her own family ☠️ and the weapons are dragons which are massive destruction weapons. It could litteraly lead to the downfall of their family ☠️☠️
Love to know whose idea it was to have bits of the Serbian Orthodox liturgy as background noise in the sept of the seven! (Meanwhile, this is what comes of not telling the whole family of the prophecy.)
Is Rhaenyra a fool or something? Sara Hess and Ryan Condal have gone insane.
She had obvious bastards and thought gaslighting everyone with eyes was a clever way to hide it. Then, she thought Daemon Targaryen was husband material. She was never that smart.
Liars often think they can will fallacy into reality by repeating their lies.
"Your father changed his mind.
Your father changed his mind.
Your father changed his mind."
This is a truism that's plainly evident in modern times (cough Tr*mp cough), but you're categorically wrong in applying it to Alicent. A liar has to know that what they're saying is wrong. Alicent believes that Viserys' words were applied to their son because she was never told The Song of Ice & Fire; she has no reason to think her husband is referring to some cryptic prophecy about Aegon the Conqueror.
She's not repeating *her* lie, she recites what Viserys said, but unfortunately she's mistaken in the meaning. There is a blatant difference between the two.
I honestly believe that Alicent knew Viserys wasn’t talking about their son in his last moments alive and still wanted Rhaenerya to take the throne. After all, Rhaenerya here confirms it was just a story he was talking about but Alicent still didn’t show any interest in caring. She would’ve stopped at nothing to have Aegon be the king because of what Otto filled her head with.
This is absolutely peak cinema cause the next episode ?? We as fans deserve this
You are being sarcastic right?
I’m calling it now: the sept scene is going to be one of those moments that people religiously defend at the time because they’re blinded by the hype of the show, but in retrospect, will be viewed as one of the most illogical, weakest scenes of the entire story, just like how the perception of many scenes in the later seasons of GOT changed with time.
True. I feel like this scene destroyed my hype for this season.
Agreed. I’ll forget this scene just like I forgot the Rhaenys scene from ep 9
Such a dumb scene, I love Olivia and Emma together but there is no logic behind the scene. Rhaenyra can't risk using her dragon to fight but she sneaks unguarded into an area where Alicent's bodyguards are just outside the door, something even riskier? She'd never make it out alive. Tired of the lack of common sense in this show.
The writers probably skipped History 101 for Girlboss 101.
This scene was fantastic ! Great acting by both 🐉
Loved this scene and the music.
Emma better get nominated
I can feel the music in this show! Like on the inside!
This was the dumbest plan ever but these actresses are so good that it makes the scene so beautiful
This show is phenomenal 👏
Spoilers below
I feel like this scene sets up for what happens with Aegon near the very end. Alicent does it.
I am such a big fan of HotD but so far they have just been making bad writing calls. Like I loved the first season and I understand that every adaption is different. But why aren't you following logic? Like no queen would go to enemy territory alone. In fact they wouldn't even send Aegon on his dragon😅. The writing goes against itself.
The whole point of Luke's death was there was no going back. Has Rhaneyra forgotten that?🥴
Queens are not a monolith, they do not all think alike, she is the daughter of Visery's the peaceful and she is trying to avoid a war, Aegon not going into enemy territory alone is because he would probably get killed and is not made for it. There is nothing contradictory here. Kings landing is reliant on trade so they are going to allow people to enter and leave kings landing and they're not going to stop literally everyone from leaving or entering, sure there would be more security ie guards but those guards don't know what Rhaenyra looks like, most people have never seen her face.
You cannot possibly know that there is no way back, last time Rhaenyra saw Alicent she was able to make decisions about what the kingdom was doing, that changed but Rhaenyra didn't know that, you forget that characters are not omniscient in the show.
Fr. At the end of s1 her final look at the camera screamed revenge. But now she's all peaceful again and it's getting annoying