Karmine Corp vs SSL Bots | ft. Vatira, Atow & Seer
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- Опубліковано 1 тра 2024
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Editing: FairJame
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Ultrawide should program the bots to say "Calculated" after every goal
lolll, that would be perfect
not every time, but make it random, and also give it like a 5% chance of what a save'ing lol
"What a save" after a goal would be perfect.
I was waiting for that every time they won. It would be so nice. Also make a "demo noob" after they get demoed.
They could do that but it wouldn't be funny.
'A team of Seers are probably making about 10th at Copenhagen" is such a hilarious line hahahahahahaha love how oddly specific it is
Higher than that, for sure.
@hhaste nah in a competitive setting in 3v3 they'd get wrecked. Demos completely nullify them, but they'd definitely be a 8-12 team in EU or NA if they figured that out. Add in 3v3 knowledge? Yeah, they win
@@thereisnowayyouareforreal5156 They'll soon be able to not only avoid demos but become demo machines themselves. They'd win 3v3s, they have instant reaction speed and 100% consistency.
@mohasan6713 "soon" is a stretch lol it would require roughly 2 years at the current pace, unless AI in general takes a massive step forward. 2s is a world different than pro 3s
@@thereisnowayyouareforreal5156 There is already a bot that heavily focuses on demos but is no where near the level of Seer, it's called Adversity Bot.
this is genuinely one of the funniest rl videos ive seen, the casting and storylines were just perfect
peak entertainment
yeah atow being 1st on leaderboard is the cherry on top
Seerly this is the best
This was so entertaining. I was jumping in my seat lmao
I was dying bc of johnny. "The bots are fighting fire with fire, theyve had enough" im dead
it’s insane how quick the bot is considering it almost never reaches super sonic
Its boost management is insane. The time it spends on 0 boost is consistently about half that of the pros (30-40s vs 80s)
Edit: The above values are the times of both players added together, so it’s half that for a single player
Thats why Monkey Moon is the goat
@@PhippeOh shit, that's super interesting
it's literally predicting where the ball is going to be, then where the closest player is, and then assess where the player will hit it, right?
crazy
@@yurilopes420 Obviously the basic concept is pretty straightforward but the execution itself is far beyond what humans are capable of and what other previous bots were playing like. And I guess the current 2s version would defo do a lot worse in 3s because of frequent pinches and wall clears + overall speed.
Rise was close to teaming up with the seer bots for next major
The NA 3 and 4 spots are looking free right now if you are a bot lol.
@@CriticalPotato 1 & 2*
@@7dayspkingclown
@@7dayspkingdumbass
In the future i would love to see SSl bots introduced into the training modes so you can practice against someone ultra high level without needed a high ranked friend.
For most low level players, there are many bots to try. Nexto pretty much beats everyone until GC, but having played him, it's not as fun or useful as you might think. Bots play very precise at some things (nexto is insane at dribbles and flicks), but they can't defend other things (nexto kickoff and aerials are ass), so you don't really get any practice that's useful for your actual games. Seer seems very good at 50s, but it's gameplay is nothing like humans play, so there isn't much to learn from it practically speaking.
@@kristianvukajlovic6789his aerials are amazing?
@@Divinity22 Nexto's no, Seer's yes.
@@kristianvukajlovic6789 I think maybe in 2 years the bots will have all rounded skills, at that point it'll just be a question of turning them down a bit, and you can get varying levels, maybe
it's seer 2 world and we are just living in it
Close one! Seer will come back for revenge!
And more importantly to win your 100 euros back!
They only won because they were demoing the whole time. If seer learns to avoid that it will win.
@@sanikku5 True!
Nice spoiler smh
@@PO-sz7qw dont watch comments first then watch the video first maybe
THE FAKE AT 17:00 HAD MY JAW ON THE FLOOR
it just ran out of boost, insane timing though
@@jerry_mandarin the fake at 19:49 definitely looked intentional tho
only in RL is calling someone a bot both an insult and a huge compliment
In chess too
chess
Chess, go, starcraft, literally every game were ais are being trained...
Wrong
every single game ever including board games. the only thing that hasnt been taken over by ai is sports. even ai generated art and music has been "better" than humans (obviously this is subjective but i say better because its similar but takes way less time)
If seer learns to dodge demos it will be unstoppable
“Meanwhile Seer 2’s having his way with atow”🤣🤣🤣
These bots are getting scary good
so are atow and vatira 😂
Phenomenal casting on this one Johnny. Pitch-perfect
Conspiracy theory, the seer bots are actually just clones of flakes
Lmao, a valid theory
This is not even conspiracy theory, it's just a baseless claim.
they're just mechanical flakes, jesus you right
RL on the precipice of having its own Deep Blue moment.
Maybe in the future, we'll be learning from bots like we do in chess
"Not trying to provide any bot copium" - John MacDonald
This is hilarious 😂
The casting in this is some of the best ever. “Foolish Human play” 😂😂😂
The thing is GC was sitting in that lobby watching, he now knows what the bots weaknesses are so he can edit the current gym environment for seer v8, now with advanced demo evasion and a more solid kickoff
As the maker I'm sure he's acutely aware of the weaknesses. It would be silly if he wasn't
😈
@@UltrawideGC im very excited to see what you can do with seer
@@UltrawideGC seer v8 is 1v1 no
@@UltrawideGC I bet you could make a bot that could qual in OCE 😂😂
Johnny: "flip reset into the boost steal" i love johnny 😂
I've never cheered this hard for a bot in any game in my life.
I think the bot got the advantage that they exactly know the outcome of what we Call „50/50“
Thats insane
Yes, with a bot, it's like a 90/10 .
Not really, they know how to take it for the best opportunity at winning it, but they don’t know the outcome. The outcome is decided by both players’ movements and the actual player can change it by just moving an inch to the left.
its not possible for the bot to see the future lol. They still have to react to what is happening. Granted its instant reaction basically.
This is insane. Definitely need to see more of Seer, banger vid!
Agree!
@@UltrawideGC how do I download this bot? I want to play training in private matches with him
@@pavimentononlisciounfortunately rl bots are not allowed to be published due to people putting them in ranked :(
and when will it be possible to solve this and launch this bot? Developers should solve this problem with cheaters sometime.
@@jabber7504when will the problem with cheaters be solved?
WHAT A SERIES! Don’t know if I’ve been more entertained or invested in a series on the channel in a loooooong time that was so much fun
This was some top tier casting these video Johnny WOW !
Game 4 was so good i found myself glued to my seat even though i know the result and this isn't live
I pressed play on this video so quick when I read the title! I haven’t even watched the matchup yet and I know it’s going to be unbelievably intertaining to watch lmao
Waiting for bots to start saying What a Save! After every goal
We have reached the point at where bots are going to overtake the pros. What have we made?
this is only 2s, seer is nowhere near pro level in 3s
There was a point in dota 2 where a team of bots destroyed the #1 team in the world then started "trash talking" lmao. It was like 5 years ago now
@nashoo2968 Yeah, not yet, but this is writing on the wall. It's inevitable.
@@licotacolin I do think it's going to take longer than most people expect it too, I'd be surprised if bots vec1me superhuman in 3s with in the next 3 years
@@nashh600 while I know it's still 2s, if Seer has the chemistry between itself this good to be outplaying Vati and Atow sometimes, imagine the 3s capability once it evolves. They are inevitable.
That shouldn't be that close of a series lmao
Yea, unfortunately the bots gave them a few games to give them hope.
Who should have won because the next vid is going to surprise you
why not?
I need to see how crazy mechanical plays from someone like Dark could work the bot
Im pretty sure soon as dark was transitioning into the pogo they would challenge
"Seer don't need demos, they score with clean Rocket League!" hahhaaha
You know Zen must be on top of the world seeing Vatira lose to bots😭
he would lose too
@@cl4ka_keyrox idk about that, zen is really consistent in the air and big aerial plays is one of these bots weaknesses
@@harorudo0816 Bots have always been bad in the air but amazing on the ground. They just need some better aerial defense to obliterate.
@@harorudo0816 vatira and atow are also consistent in the air bro but they almost got reverse swept and if these guys almost lost i doubt it would be diff with zen ☠️
@@cl4ka_keyrox I would say zen is more consistent with big aerial plays than both of them, also vatira and atow didnt stick to their winning strat otherwise it wouldnt be this close of a series
One of the most entertaining series pls have more of these Johnny
I've never laughed soo hard in a show match goodness me, we need more of this.
Best video ever Johnny lol please come back with more of these.
This was actually so fun to watch! Crazy how good they’re getting!
"If there's one team you don't wanna try the bot kickoff against, it is a bot" 😂this video is awesome
The follow ups on each other's plays from the bots was so satisfying. And the speed to get to the ball in the air. If they can ever do 3v3 I'd love to see it
The way this bot plays is like Flakes with ultra instinct
30:15 had me dying 😭😭😭
Insanely fun video and matchup!! More of this!!
Absolutely amazing! Peak content! Thanks Johnny!!
Demos, backboard defense, demo dodges, flip resets. The bots get ahold of those and we are looking at stockfish of RL
This is the bot vs top tier pro matchup I’ve been waiting for
Holy crap this was INTENSE. Super duper close game, gg!
3 seer bots could 100% make a regional in NA
legendary commentary! ❤️
would love to see more!
Scary time to be alive where machines nearly outperform the peak humans
"bot copium" lmao
the fact that kc won out of a air dribble bump is ridiculous, great game by both the teams tbh, extremely fun to watch.
Bring in Dan and Beastmode, Rw9 and Killeerz, Yan and Lostt. Bring em in
Once they learn double taps, flip resets, and demos no pro will ever beat these AI. I wonder the potential for 3v3s; their instantaneous communication and teamwork plays would be unstoppable.
Best video yet, made me laugh so much, thank you all!
Wow what a video from Johnny and the cast, really impressed with Seer, hoping it will continue to have an impact for rocketleague.
this is like the Incredibles with the iterations of robots and the superheroes.
got demoed and bumped hella times and still almost reverse swept, they are actually insane
It seems like the only way to score on these bots is to hit a crazy shot
Or just demo them out the way
I must say, this was an absolute treat! ❤ Watching the mechanical gods of KC going to work against the bots that I appreciate a lot as reinforcement learning enthusiast, topped off by Johnnys phenomenal commenting! holy cow 🐄!! 🙉🙉
This matchup is definitely a memeable thing, but it also makes for such interesting discourse. For example, it's crazy how the bots could aerial from awkward positions and still manage to get a decent touch. It seems like a real challenge to read their car language, which would make for additional interesting matches with other pros. I would love to see a 1v1 between Seer and a pro.
It would be great if someone (maybe UltraWideGC?) would make a technical explanation of how these RL bots work and train their AI models to play on such a high level. I personally think that would be really interesting. It would be nice to know how much of the bot's input are AI generated compared to hard coded, as in similar to a TAS. From the little snippets I am hearing, the kick-offs are definitely hard coded for both the Nexto series bots and the Seer bots in this video. (mentioned at 15:55)
There is this video by b2studios of him making an RL bot, but that went more into the vector and physics maths of controlling the car and predicting the ball than the AI model itself.
Found out that UltrawideGC made a master thesis on Seer that you can find on his website, what a chad.
@@sanikku5 Some parts Master thesis are outdated at this point, but there’s likely gonna be a write-up once the bot reaches its final version ;)
Only kickoffs are hardcoded, and this is the case for every machine learning bot (sometimes even kickoffs are learned).there are HC bots but they are much much worse
@@PhippeCan't wait for the write up, but the outdated thesis is still very insightful and well written! There is no other way to learn about the frameworks, parameters, AI architecture, training process and prior used.
What could fix bots vulnerability to demos is that bots vision (from the whole team) is combined and constantly being fed into the information pool. That way a bot would know if a player is speeding behind them, towards them at all times as long as other bots see that player in their view.
That would almost be similar to comms haha
This is such a great video
It's like the bonus round of RLCS.
This is Fascinating!
Loved this! Seer almost had them too! Much love johnny
Would be interesting to see how GCs (maybe 3v2) would match up against Seer
Truth is that while Seer is capable, pros make RL look like art. The bots can’t.
I mean it’s not surprise that a well made bot would be better than people 😂 0 human error. Most entertaining video I’ve watched in a while
human error is in the coding.
I wonder if it was a 3v3 and there were 2 bots and 1 person vs 3 other people, would do bots involve their human teammate in the game, like passes or fakes. It would be more than interesting to test this theory
“They didn’t want anything to do with a zero second goal from the bots” IM DEAD LMAO 💀 🤣
Insane! What a showing
A showmatch with Seer VS Zen and Vatira would be incredible
Let's see some 3v3 bot action, I don't think they're gonna have a chance for awhile against pros
Incredible, what I find unfair is that they think as one, which a team cannot really do, even if they communicate so well.
Daniel beast mode vs seer matchup
I have tears in my eyes bro 😭😭😂
This was awesome we need to see a seer 3v3 vs Karmine or another top team.
There’s something chilling and dystopian of Johnny talking about the bots making decisions and calling Vati and Atow simply “Humans”😂
I was wondering when the air dribble bump would come out after Johnny mentioned it, the low SSL version literally just farmed those
if this shows us anything its that 1. in RLCS, its likely that teams aren't learning how their opponents are playing and adapting but rather remaining consistent while their opponents throw. and 2. the game can be played completely and fundamentally differently with great success against the worlds best.
More teams vs seer is an order i think.
Dang... Daniel finally learned how to play 2 cars at once!
Dang dan droid!
Bro Imagine a Pro 3v3 Tourney where every team is 1 pro, 1 Seer, and 1 Nexto
nexto would be useless
@@cru3her608 now you get it
Does the AI have a sensor for double jump availability? It can explain why they "fake" a flip reset but don't "understand" that they can use it..?
the next version of the seer bot should be seer-r, cause it sounds like crr, haha
do more of these with seer if u can i loved this
bots whan atow ceiling pinch double tap it at mach 3: 👁️👄👁️
1.5 million hrs of training in a few months.... Just imagine a few more months at 3mil hours.... They will be unstoppable. Awesome and terrifying
What is vati goal explosion first game?
Seer does flip reset but i’ve never seen it generate power from it.. If it can pop the ball or generate diagonal momentum from it, my gosh…
But I do wonder, trying to train something might cause it to overuse / over rely on it and might be its downfall too. Damn… Too many possibilities..
I have seen it use the flip to generate power and score. But generally it uses it for a follow up touch or pass. You can't really force the bot to train a mechanic more than others. You reward it to do certain stuff but it's out of your hands if they will actually get good at something. In the end of the day the bot plays itself thousands of times and only the winners are picked to train new bots. The moment something is over used the bot will learn to defend against it so it will stop doing it.
If Seer learns Double Taps, Demo Dodging and better use of Flip Resets it will be so hard to win against it. Another thing I would like to see is Kuxir Pinches from it. Just imagine perfect 213KPH top left or right Kuxir pinches?
Yeah, for certain bots are maybe only 6 months from being able to sweep pros, at least pros who haven't played against bots a few times to learn their playstyle. Bots definitely have a play style that can be countered it seems.
This is literally the perfect gibbs. LOL
THIS IS AMAZING
Won’t be long before it’s the bots who are pushing the skill ceiling, not the humans.
8:53 was NUTS! 😮
Just the fact they can flick perfectly 100% of the time is so strong
Are you amazed about how your touch screen scrolls up 100% of the time when you swipe up too?
@@sickduck9865 😂🤡
Seer: I have no respect for Atow`s redirect abbilitys. Yep obviously Atow is missing that redirect I just score it.
Honestly, this is amazing. I hope Rocket league works with these people to actually implement these bots into the game so we have a category of bots for every single rank category..
Also, I find it weird that I'm rooting for the bots to win. I just want the marvel of technology to give me a "wow" moment I guess xD
It is coming my friend, don't worry, Your wet dream is approaching, just be prepared for it to turn into a nightmare.