"Angry Black Woman:" The Impact of a Harmful Trope
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
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Suggest your favorite black woman creators/writers/speakers etc. here!
tee noir, jade fox, and kat blaque!
techme0ut
Elexus Jionde from Intelexual Media!
Audra at Home on youtube, if you like to chill to some makeup streams and/or like horror movie discussion content.
@@clng5550 yes! Along with Petty Paige, Courtreezy and Nyma Tang!
considering that asking someone who's not mad "why are you mad" is one of the easiest ways to make them feel legitimately mad it's like a shitty self-fulfilling prophecy
Good point!
I mean… this question could come from a sincere place (in which case, maybe find better phrasing… something that shows an assumption that the anger is justified; perhaps “oh shit, what happened?” as just one possibility), or it can be (and too often is) a gaslighting thing. “Why are you angry?” “X happened.” “Well I didn’t see X happen.” “Well it did.” “Prove it.” … that sort of thing. So, reasonable for the question to induce further anger. For anyone sincerely wanting to understand the cause, find a better way to ask. IMHO; HAKO.
@@DavidLindes true they may genuinely want to find out. But in my experience they only ask this when you're disagreeing with them. They don't ask you this if you're crying over the fact that the tomatoes are finished or something like that. Also as a side note if you suspect it's because it's that time of the month use a process of elimination. Nothing makes a woman angrier (whether it's that time of the month or not) to be asked if it is because it implies their feelings or opinions don't matter they're just "hormonal". As if if it weren't for those pesky hormones they would of course be agreeing with you.
Shit what happened? Is a pretty good one.
@@gwendolynnemckay9240 Glad you like that one. And just in case this wasn’t clear, my first comment above was re the original question of why someone is angry. As for the question about time of the month, yeah… that’s not a question I ask. If a woman wants to let me know that an outburst of anger I just witnessed (or was the target of) was amplified by a hormone surge, I’ll add condolences for that experience to whatever validation I provide about the anger itself. Otherwise, it’s really none of my business, and even if it was, it doesn’t mean there aren’t other reasons for anger that should be where the attention should go - that is, towards removing the causes for anger (where possible), and letting the anger itself run its course.
I'm white, and I have a sister-in-law who is Black. Several years ago, I was talking with her and my other (white) sister-in-law about my Black sister-in-law's frustrations at work. My white sister-in-law (a teacher) encouraged her to "speak up and be more assertive" about her pay and treatment, and my Black sister-in-law had to explain to her (us) how that's not really a viable option for Black women in a male-dominated field (architecture). It taught me a couple of things.
First, intersectionality is a thing.
Second, no matter how antiracist you think you are, and no matter how many BIPOC friends and relatives you have, there is ALWAYS more to learn from people's lived experiences. Keep listening.
Amen Sistah Jade. AMEN!!!
YES. This is why the angry black woman stereotype is so harmful. Even in a situation like the one where you described where she should be able to ask for more, she can't b/c black people are supposed to be grateful for whatever we get, no matter how little it is, and if she behaves even the tiniest bit aggressively, then she needs to "calm down" b/c she's being uppity.
@@jadeknowsbest1674 Lol name checks out 😆
The happy ending to that story is that, less than a year later, my sister in law left her crappy job for a new one at a Black-owned, woman-led firm, where she got to work with her mentor. 😊
A black person in the position of teaching white people….again. It’s not our job. Educate yourselves
As a black woman there is only three ways society sees me; Overs3xual, A mother, or angry... I just want to be me and everyone talks to me like I'm a wh0re, an inspirational guide to life's problems because I'm so strong, or a bubbling pot ready to explode. Its fxcking exhausting.
It’s wild to me that a mere concept of someone being a human being is a novelty to some-a human being in both positive and negative sense
Hey, I can't imagine what that's like. It sounds terrible and shallow as hell. I wonder, is it young people who do this to you as well? Or is age not a factor?
I think because the underclass of black society has been normalised.
Whereas
"oversexual......angry" is quite frequent in the low class society of every race and nationality. I believe that perception maybe due to the media and anti-black website like world star hippop.
@@adiversion9413 age doesn't matter, but older people tend to talk to me like I'm for sale (45 or so and up), 40s and 30s as if im angry and the younger crowd looks to me as a mother. Its not exclusive to age but its what's most common to each group.
@@SisterKnight Ah damn, would've hoped the younger people would know better.
The really shitty thing about this as well that black women can't call out this stereotyping without being accused even more of being an angry black woman. It's a perpetual cycle. Even if you respond in the calmest way possible to someone stereotyping you like this, you're still seen as too sensitive. Stereotyping is so damn shitty
Just right-wingers projecting their own anger and sensitivity lmao
@@LisaBeergutHolst I don't think it's necessarily productive to assume that only right wingers have racist attitudes and perceptions. Even white people who are involved in social activism and are unlearning their problematic thought patters are subject to having unconscious racist beliefs, which is a natural symptom of living in a racist society. The worst thing leftist whites can do is to attribute all the racism in the world outside of themselves, putting ourselves outside of the problem and allowing us to ignore and not unlearn our own racist beliefs, which need to be addressed just as much as overt right wing racism.
@@siljatusa3434 Not sure where I said that but go off lol
@@LisaBeergutHolst to me your comment seemed to imply that whatever stereotyping as angry and belittling of emotions black women face comes from a place of “just” right wing anger and insecurity, when it often can come from people on the left as well.
@@LisaBeergutHolst **sensitivity not insecurity
White male here, married for 14 years to a beautiful, kind, optimistic black woman...who is also very justifiably angry at the endless microaggressions, hypocrisy, double standards, and ignorance she faces. Thank you so much for discussing this.
Thank you so much for sharing your comment! The marginalised need more empathetic people like you to be allies for social justice and feminist movements. ✊♀️
You are a good and wonderful person. Never stop being you👍🏿
Between this and the "strong black woman" I sometimes feel so detached from expressing any kind of vulnerability whatsoever during situations where anyone else could do with no problem. Thanks for this video. HAKO!
I imagine the trope of wise mystic blacklady veneration isn't helping either? The thing where if you're unthreatening and calm enough, as a black woman you'd be expected to chime in with mystic wisdoms or wake-up calls whenever asked?
At least, I think that trope exists. It might actually not be as big a thing?
That's the exact point of stereotypes, to discourage you from expressing your truth (while demonizing you the public through repetition)......Express it anyway, stop thinking about the simple-minded people who promote the idea that if a woman is Black, she can't be or get angry like everyone else (what a stupid and unrealistic idea, right?)
The more I learn and understand the nature of black people's issues in society today, the more I'm surprised more of them aren't angry. Every black person I personally meant has been the most polite and sweetest people. After what I've been learning I'm worried they were playing it up to protect themselves, although understandable it makes me sad.
I really doubt its that bad .Racism isnt nearly as bad as its was in the 1800s .Its a lot better .Trust me from a guy that knows some history
It seems like a lot of people are just exhausted from being so angry. You can’t keep that up forever.
@@dude9318 Just because it's better than it was in the 1800s doesn't mean we should stop working to make things better. We still have a long way to go and a lot of societal barriers to demolish.
It's like saying we shouldn't bother going to the moon because we learned how to do an orbital rendezvous. Like, why do you think we bothered doing an orbital rendezvous in the first place? I mean, sure, learning how to do a Hohmann transfer is cool as hell, but it's no landing on the moon.
I'm fine with being grateful for the progress we have, but we still have a bunch of work ahead of us. If you find yourself asking "what work", then I advise watching some more videos on this channel.
@@dude9318 stupid comment honestly..
I can't speak for the Black people who you say are polite and sweet; only myself. I'm around white people constantly who describe me the same way. And I hate those racist people. But *I know that in america, I'm not allowed to be anything other than a stereotype* because if I show how I really feel, then they become an abusive Karen (as they literally ALWAYS do) and everyone will take Their side.
Hence, I VERY strongly suggest you monitor yourself in an honest fashion as to HOW you interact with these people. Do you allow them to truly be themselves? Or do you subliminally - with your facial expressions, pinched up demeanor and reactions - let them know you think they're sweet *As Long As They Agree With Everything YOU Think And Feel?* I don't know you and yet I'd be willing to bet a few thousand dollars on the result of your self query. 🤗🥰 *#GrowthIsGood** **#SelfReflection*
It's not an accident that the only black Spice Girl was nicknamed 'Scary Spice.'
Fuuuu I had to re-read that a few times. It had never occurred to me that's what was going on... I grew up thinking it was because she was loud/assertive & more sexually expressi...oooh...oh!
Damn it.
i've never even made that connection, but i don't doubt that that's the case.
There’s a black spice girl?
Well, Mel B obviously isn't white.
Yeah, that's one of the reasons I could never get into them.
"An embarrassment to the sport do to her bad behavior"
Do this people even watch tennis???
The only thing keeping this players from beating each other is long distance and a net.
Exactly Djokovic breaks rackets all the time
@@asanitheafrofuturist yup and he gets penalized for it. All the time.and he's not even the worst. Look at Nick Kyrgios. Very talented but he gets a lot of boos for his bratty behaviour. That guy must have spent at least 10% of his earnings on fines. If you watch tennis, you'd know that the men throw their rackets around way more than the ladies do and they get penalized a lot more(the women tend to have looooong, heated discussions with umpires). You can google the amount of money the men's tour gets from fines. The difference with someone like Djokovic is that Serena kicked off and went on and on and on. The men tend to keep it moving. Serena is known for this. She doesn't kick off that much but when she does....it's memorable. The question of racism/sexism was raised by American(social) media. And can you blame American media? No. Because the US is the most racist nation in the West and still deals with the inherent bias towards US citizens of color. The rest of the world has their own brand of racism but it's not systemic. I am glad to be a POC in a white society that is NOT the USA. I have enough on my plate as it is. This says more about how black women in America are regarded by white american society. To the non-American tennisfan it's more like:"Serena...not again...shuddup, shuddup, shuddup...oh crap, she just threatened the lines woman"
And now, they are doing that same bullshit with Naomi Osaka even though she doesn't react the way others do. As long as she played to the docile Asian stereotype they loved her. But when she came out in support of Black Lives Matter and marched against police brutality, they realized "Oh Snap, she's Black, too!" and started hassling her.
@@dr.braxygilkeycruises1460 24 36 q
As a Black woman, I just want the freedom to be mad when I'm legitimately mad and express that as a healthy minded human-being. I've never felt the freedom to just be a whole human in this American society.
Amen and amen, Again!
Same 😣
Agree and the same..we should be able to express whatever we feel without being viewed as loud and crazy
same... my biggest problem with my race is struggling to be seen as a complex human being. people will have an unconscious judgement of me the moment they see me, maybe even before. Its hard not to be really sad and upset about it.
@@quietstream8206 , AMEN👏🏾TO THAT🙌🏾
@@quietstream8206 Hang in there, we got this! 🤜🏻🤛🏽🤗
I feel like if black women really are angry, it shouldn't mean less of what they're angry about. Like it shoudn't be "well that's rough but she shouldn't have reacted that way" and soley judge the woman rather than the cause.
Black people in general and black women in particular, are not afforded the nuances of humanity. We’re excepted to fit a narrative that makes people confortable. If We deviate even for a valid reason, We’re deemed uppity,angry and so on. That white lady throwing a tantrum in Victoria Secret shop, was more coddled while She was the aggressor. But her victim a black woman was straight up ignored, unprinted and not heard.
It is the general experience accros most Black experiences for Black women.
@@TititoDeBologay Exactly!!!!
And *we're expected to be silent, accommodating mammies even while police continue to MURDER OUR BLACK CHILDREN.* And if we show anger even as they turn our children into dead hashtags, suddenly WE are the problem and not the terrorists hunting our children on a daily basis.
Good point. It changes the subject of the conversation from whatever the real issue was.
Story of my life. I can literally see the discomfort on the faces of non-black ppl in my presence, even if I'm silent. I hope that the exposure of the Karens of the world will debunk this myth.
I kept thinking about Karens while watching the video. While I do occasionally laugh at entitled people not getting what they want (men just as often as women), I can't shake the feeling that in some cases, women who have genuine grievances might be labelled as "Karens" and dismissed. It's a bit like younger people answering "okay boomer" instead of trying to be compassionate and seeing things from another's perspective.
Not trying to evoke "whataboutism", I do think the added layer of racism on top of sexism is a frightening concoction
Also, I'm very sorry you feel that way and hope we can work towards improving the situation
Confirmation bias is a helluva drug. You're LOOKING for racism in their faces, so you interpret it that way. The only myth is your bullshit narrative.
I'm sure we all remember, at the peak of the Serena Williams drama, there was that "political cartoon" that, in addition to employing several racist tropes in its depiction of Williams, but also very conveniently turned the tall, dark-skinned and quite muscular Osaka Naomi into a petite, blonde-haired white woman. And I at least recall finding that more revealing than the overt racism. The "artist" (a term I employ rather charitably) knew, either consciously or subconsciously, that he would he unable to evoke the perception of Williams as irrational and overemotional against a non-white background - so he conveniently needed to remove the fact that Osaka isn't white either, or Williams would not look sufficiently angry in comparison. And moreover, the praise of Osaka's poise was redirected away from her strength of character and sportswomanship and instead attributed to an inherent virtue of her (incorrectly assigned) whiteness.
It was a real slipping mask moment for me - the bigots know what they're doing, in their heart of hearts, and have absolutely no concern for reality when it clashes with their delusions.
When I saw that cartoon I immediately thought that a second situation had happened with an actual white woman. I was shocked to find that they had changed Osaka so much for effects
The same cartoonist lampooned people from all racial backgrounds. Serena Williams threatened once to hit a Japanese line judge at the us open and this led to her disqualification. I don't remember anyone accusing her of anti-yellow racism.
I'm sure all of us remember that Naomi Osaka indeed had blonde hair during that match, and isn't "muscular" by any stretch of the imagination. Of course this is the same group of people who are overtly antisemitic racists (see Kyrie Irving, Kanye, Whoopie, etc.) who make up conspiracies and defend shitty behavior (like serial rapist Bill Cosby) by crying "racism." Serena had a meltdown and verbally abused a judge -- period. Her apologists crying "racism" is nothing new -- they refuse to take accountability for their own actions.
Osaka is practically the same color as Serena in that cartoon, idiot. And she's noticeably darker skinned than the white official she's speaking to. Also, Osaka had blond hair at that US Open so the hair color was accurate.
Nice try dipshit, but completely making up history as you go only works against lazy or biased people who don't do their own research.
A great, recent example of the "Angry black woman" stereotype is in the superhero show "Invincible" where the main character(Mark)'s girlfriend is Amber, a very sassy and affirmative black woman. Even worse is that she was not black in the comics.
Wow, that explains a lot. Anytime a character is changed to black and people aren't furious it's because the character isn't a fan favourite.
Yes! And the amount of rage towards her because of *1 line* of bad writing! I've seen so many videos of people just shredding her to pieces making her out to be a fate worse than that obnoxious cheater Rex! Like any of the characters on the show is perfect (save for eve)
@@NeroMai yeah! When a bad character is black people go the extra mile on them.
@@natasharules770 now I’m not gonna pay to stream the episodes, I always pay to watch stuff I enjoy, but now I’ll stream on putlocker, 123movies or emovies, I hate when they do shit like that, always trying to place stereotypes in DSBW 😒🙄
Exactly, they literally made her Black and decided to make her an angry black woman stereotype. Why couldn't she just keep the same sweet and kind personality from the comics? They literally thought that since she was going to be Black, that she should now be bossy and such. Also, the fanbase is way harsher especially because she is Black, and I assure you that every anti Amber fan will deny it.
I would argue that NO representation is better then negative representation so I respectfully disagree with the actress who defended that role… but I also understand there were less roles back then
Oh, I totally agree. I'm sorry, but when they do that, they try to frame it as representation after the fact when it's really about the coins. Sis was trying to get paid, and I understand that, but I agree that I'd rather not be represented badly, even if it means no representation. Because that bad representation gets us hurt, less protected, and even killed.
I think we should normalize calling angry men "hormonal", because it's facts.
Well it is testosterone that's why
@Lite-Wing Gift ah thanks
Alternative idea: let's stop calling anyone hormonal. It's rude, belittles people's emotions, and will always be tinged with mysogyny
@@msjkramey best idea, best way forward
Considering how a lot of hormones including testosterone and estrogen tend to decrease with age, and how old white people are some of the most commonly and irrationally loud, angry, and belligerent about anything under the sun, I'm inclined to say the causes of raging behaviors are much more complex than being "hormonal."
That is why we need more black women in media. Like everywhere. More representation. And I don’t wanna see recycled roles or same ‘ol stereotypes. I wanna see black women as they are, all the layers.
I've been screaming this from rooftops for years. I'm 24 yet I still long to see myself in the teen and young adult coming-of-age films i grew up on. I had 13 Going on 30, Legally Blonde, She's the Man, Maid of Honor, etc on repeat my entire childhood. I just wish i got to see women who look like me in them.
We especially need to be behind the scenes writing, producing, directing, etc. for black female characters. And we need to not be a Shonda Rimes type (if you know what I mean).
YES!!! Every time the main cast is all white I cringe.
@@LadyAstarionAncunin That 100% improves the quality of the show.
Black representation made by Black people. It's the only way to have genuine, respectful representation.
The Spicy Latinas said hi.
It's crazy how those US-American stereotypes all have similar counterparts in other countries in America. Down here in Brazil and many other (I'd even say all of them if I had studied enough them all to be sure) latin and caribbean countries we have the same kinda expectations and prejudices towards black people, and some worse, because of our sadly shared enslavement history in this continent.
If I recall correctly, out of the many countries buying African slaves during that time period, most of the world total went to Caribbean and/or South American countries, with North America getting relatively few. I think the Sugar Cane industry was the driving force, it was more profitable than anything North America had. This is not to reduce North America's participation, I just hadn't thought about how the racism might be similar in areas south of the US, but it makes sense.
It seems like justifying slavery (or any other deeply inhumane treatment of others based on race, ethnicity, etc.) usually involves applying lots of degrading and undesirable labels to the group being mistreated. If you can convince most everyone that the people your nation/organization/whatever is mistreating are subhuman or otherwise fundamentally evil, immoral, etc. and deserve this treatment or brought it on themselves, then it's much easier to ease everyone's' consciences about what's happening, or at least pretend to.
It's an attitude that I've heard about existing in almost every major country, culture, history, etc., with slavery just being one of many examples. There's the obvious like how Nazis justified their actions in the Holocaust, and I've heard about attitudes of "They're subhuman and don't deserve the same respect" from the Japanese Soldiers during the Nanjing Massacre, which I didn't even know about until a year or so ago by chance in a youtube video.
*TRIGGER WARNING:* For anyone wants to look up the Nanjing Massacre, be warned that there is some deeply, deeply, awful stuff described in there, even with some pictures taken of the results.
As a white man living in a racist area you've given me a great insight in how to be a better a person thank you, you've gained a new sub:)
@Slavic Melodies Stand up for yourself but don't push others down whilst doing.
I'd take Scott Adams' advice and move away from that black neighborhood you live in. It won't end well for you, trust me. Get away from the racists and maybe move near people who have been accepting of every race and culture and allowed all their nations to become diverse, melting pot societies.
Thank you for another very interesting and educational video. I can only imagine how frustrating it is to deal with a problem like this, knowing that getting angry at the issue will only reinforce the stereotype in the eyes of those who witness your anger.
Actually, when you're a black woman, you don't even need to get emotional to be deemed "angry."
you say you dont know how well you succeed at discussing these sobering topics while encouraging hope and optimism- but to me youre one of my favourite channels that makes complex topics super easy to digest! i always feel like i learn something. Youre great at what you do!
Your videos give me so much hope. The thoughtful narrative and research is so refreshing.
I feel silly for not realizing this was a stereotype. I still have a long way to go if that's the case. Thanks for bringing this up and doing what you do.
Minstrel shows were shown on the BBC in Britain 7 Years before my birth. I am now 35. Yes. And Britain likes to think racism disappeared in 42 years.
I see this kind of treatment happening to black football players playing European club football. Look at England after their players missed their penalties in the Euros 2021.
Yeah that sucks
There was literally hate crimes rising in one night because of it. It was unbelievable.
That's just any player from different backgrounds.
If you win for them, you're part of the country but if you fail they remind you you're foreigner
“The most disrespected person in America is the Black woman. The most unprotected person in America is the Black woman. The most neglected person in America is the Black woman.”
-Malcolm X
the angry black woman is a prevalent stereotype
From an outside perspective I've noticed that there are so many negative stereotypes about black women that whatever they do they're falling into one, like ffs just let them act like everyone else without belittling them
It scares me how so many people don't realise that it's an internal bias that makes them view black women this way. Not being afforded the liberty of the full range of human experience is exhausting...
So true. People (all of us) need to check our internalized biases and unlearn them. It's a daily effort.
I have noticed at work the people who complain about bias and harassment training are the ones that need it the most. Sadly they don't take in the training's lessons.
On multiple occasions, I've been treated as though I'd gotten an attitude with a white person (usually a white woman) when I hadn't. I'm a very mild-mannered, polite, soft-spoken person, and I absolutely loathe conflict (it literally makes me feel ill), so what that has taught me is that people will decide ahead of time what I am and how I am and I have no input on it. So, I just focus on being me and avoiding people like that as much as possible. They don't know me; they don't care about me; I (hopefully) won't live or die by their immediate opinion. But it still matters because the way these people think affects the system because their votes reflect their hatred and ignorance.
I feel like the "angry black woman" trope can be a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Some of my friends would be percieved as angry when they weren't and get called out for being bitchy, which is a great way to *actually* piss someone off. Don't tell someone how they feel. And then, they'd actually get angry and the stereotype would get reinforced. Having that happen over and over your whole life can make the kindest person cynical and grumpy. My friends who escaped the stereotyping were the ones who code-switched the most fluently. Ones who couldn't or refused to would be percieved much differently
Something else is that white people, myself included, have a hard time sometimes telling the difference between when black strangers are having fun or are angry just by hearing them talk. It kind of feels like walking in on some best friends ribbing each other, telling them to calm down & stop fighting, and them telling you to chill out because it's an inside joke & they were having fun before you showed up. I don't have the same confusion with people I know because I know their mannerisms but I just have a hard time interpretting new people's social cues in general. So I just try to mind my business
I mean, yeah, it does become a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's like how black people are treated more punitively by cops b/c we know the law and thus have less of an excuse than a white person who can claim ignorance. We are expected to know the law and are treated as such so we end up learning the law and teaching younger generations... Which only affirms the belief of cops that black people know the law so it's okay to treat us like we know exactly what we're doing when we seem to break it.
Also, it kinda sounds like you could use some black friends b/c you are correct that social cues are different among other cultures than your own.
@@jadeknowsbest1674 lol I do have black friends but I'm just really bad at social cues in general. It's just another layer on top of my regular confusion with people outside of my family. That and having a lot of code switching around me
It's a way of dismissing legitimate feelings of black women. A way to not reexamine the reasons why a person may be feeling anger. On the other side of the coin, East Asian women are regarded as submissive and some may aspire to get into a relationship with them because of their racism+misogyny. I think Serena Williams has had a legitimate reason to be angry in many of her games. There should be better guidelines to make sure prejudices do not effect players of color more so than others.
She only gets mad when she believes she's been wronged. She handled her loss to Simona Halep well and even praised her.
I lived through John McEnroe's era, and Serena's temper never even struck me as unusual by comparison. Always just assumed the media attention was a racist thing.
He really went easy on him in the clip he picked because McEnroe did some insane stuff.
McEnroe once got disqualified. So did Novak djokovic. If you act like a spoiled brat you get punished whether you are a white man or a black woman. Williams was punished for misconduct and getting coached which was breaking the rules.
@@wonjubhoy typical white response
I've heard the phrase "stereotypes are true for a reason" and while I think that statement has the potential to be true, I've yet to meet anyone that truly fulfills this one.
The "Angry Black Woman". That's crazy.
I've met the "Angry Asian Woman" though of course that might just be mom/aunts/family members in general. I don't know what I'm talking about. I don't even think that's a stereotype.
This reminds me of Bachelor Nation constantly hating on Rachel Lindsay for everything she does and are mad when she rightfully points out racism and other injustices. It makes me so mad that people hate on her when she's right
Serena Williams is a goddess. 'Nuff said. 🌹
Having not witnessed Serena's alleged outbursts I can't directly compare. Otoh I can say that at the time McEnroe was harshly criticized for his "childish" behavior. The amusement has only come w time.
He was criticized officially within the profession, sure, but society as a whole loved it and encouraged it (it's one of the reasons he was so popular). People looked at it as a spectacle, the same way people often watch hockey for the fights. For Williams she gets the criticism both professionally and from society at large. There's definitely a double standard there. I definitely agree the amusement and lampooning has softened the original image over time, but let's not pretend there wasn't an enjoyment of his behavior by a large amount of fans even when it was happening.
@@Itharl Nah. At the time he was broadly labeled as the "tennis brat" and largely criticized on and off the court. He would try and joke about it after the fact, and then really humorously leaned into the perception after his playing career. He rehabilitated his image post playing career over several years.
McEnroe has been both fined and suspended for behavior on the court, so as far as the profession goes, he wasn't found to be that humorous. I think it made him interesting to the public because let's be honest the majority of everyday people back then found tennis to be boring.
The same can also be said of the sport of golf; golf is considered to be a gentlemen's sport, and bad behavior in golf has resulted in people being barred from the game. We don't have any prominent black women in the sport to compare reactions too, and the most prominent black men in the sport have been exemplary in their conduct.
"you're just angry because" is one of the most infuriating things people can say.
As The Grand Archpriest of The Church of the Algorithm, I bless this video with a comment.
As a humble adherent to the doctrines of the Church of the Algorithm, I have liked your comment and replied.
As a Latter Minute Pastafarian I would cordially like to invite you to a lengthy interreligious dialogue or commentathon, if you will.
@@Snowshowslow I would love to, but first allow me to request permission for this ecumenical endeavor from my Grand Archpriest.
@@justgettingby7725 Very well, very well. Church hierarchy must be adhered to, especially in such weighty matters.
👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿 Thank you, fam. I'm raising three Black women and tell them that they shouldn't feel pressure to be reserved in expressing themselves, especially since the males in their lives won't have to. If they aren't willing to speak up for themselves and be assertive, it will negatively impact their pay, relationships and most importantly, their own health.
Hey dude really appreciate your content, thank you for what you do❤️
Yo! When did you get the Curiousity/Nebula connect? Nice.
He's been on it for ages. I actually first found him on Nebula a while back before ever seeing him on UA-cam XD
How prevalent or strongly do you think this stereotype is embraced by Black men? It's nearly impossible to fail to be influenced by the cultural programming of entertainment media.
A lot, in my experience, if not more then by non black people.
It's interesting you saying that you feel bad about liking the Amos and Andy show. I think that's something that we miss in the analysis of older media. It is possible to like some aspects of things while recognising problematic elements. Enjoying parts of something don't excuse the other parts, and also vice versa, noting problems shouldn't stop you enjoying the parts you do like. We do that all the time with media regardless of age for things that aren't socially or politically charged, for example I love Tron Legacy for its stunning visuals and gorgeous soundtrack, despite the weak plot and the poor CGI on the young Jeff Bridges
This idea can be applied to historical events and people as well. For example, we don't have to reduce someone like George Washington down to a single thing, his worst thing.
@@LeGrandJohnson Presidents are not like media figures. I think it would warrant that both the criticisms and praises of presidents are more serious than what T1J is speaking of here.
@@Daniel-rh7gw I agree
John McEnroe is today best remembered as a poor sportsman rather than a great tennis star of the late 70s/early 80s. When you mentioned Serena Williams' outburst, the first person to come to mind was McEnroe. His conduct tainted his entire career. If were laughing about it now, it's because so much time has gone by.
As T1J said, tantrums aren’t uncommon on the tennis court. I’ve watched a lot of tennis and I don’t think Serena is out of the ordinary in that sense at all. I’m not black or from the USA, so I don’t have particular bias either. I will say she’s easily the greatest player in competitive women’s tennis ever-easily the best.
With McEnroe, it was a mind game; it was his way of putting the other players off balance. He does a lot of commentary since retiring and he’s really a very funny and entertaining person.
Laughing at McEnroe now while at the same time soberly criticizing Serena Williams now is still an inconsistency. And McEnroe isn't the only one, just the most well-known.
If the same person is somberly criticizing Serena Williams while laughing off McEnroe (or some other offender), that is an inconsistency.
@@SuperGhettoBob if you’re talking to me, I’m not laughing about McEnroe’s tantrums at all. He has a comedic side to him which is very entertaining. I am saying that many players have moments of venting their frustrations in ways that aren’t good. However they are penalised for it. It happens all the time. McEnroe was disqualified from the 1990 Australian open, so it’s not like he got off scot free.
Cultural tonality is often difficult to decipher. Many people find Italians, Russians, and Israelis off-putting because the tonality comes off as aggressive or unpleasant. Taiwanese, often considered a peasant language compared to Mandarin, is very emotional and people often read anger in it that simply isn't there. Even after knowing my Taiwanese wife for twelve years, I still struggle because I perceive my wife to be angry when she insists that she isn't.
The trope is a classic case of misogynoir
We're not talking enough about how black male comedians traffic A LOT in portraying archaic stereotypes of black women. Are we willing to cut the cord with Tyler Perry?
I'm mixed race (half-white, half-Native American) and depending on my environment I can pass as either so I get limited racial prejudice. My best friend however, she's black and is constantly called "the angry black woman", but to my eyes, she's sweet, funny, thoughtful, and strong. She makes me feel comfortable about my transness in public spaces by both standing up for me when people are mean to me and just validating me when I feel bad. I wish I could have her confidence, and I wish I could have the courage to stand up for her when she gets harassed. I admire her a lot (and maybe a little gay for her), and just the other day she broke down from all the problems she faces as a black woman, and I just wish I can take it all away. I wish people could see past their preconceived ideas of black women and realize they are just as nice and nuance as anyone else.
That stereotype of hostility comes from poverty. I'm white and I was extremely poor for a long time and dealing with that is stressful so I would snap a lot. I look back at the way I behaved at that time a lot and am embarrassed but I try to remember I was experiencing trauma from being in poverty. Because of systemic racism, black women are more likely to live in poverty. I think that may be where it's coming from and it's not their fault.
Yeah the constant struggle definitely
More white ppl are on welfare
As a black man, I feel like I'm not allowed to be aggressive or else be viewed as an "irate black man".
Depends what you mean by aggressive, but that often means anti-social behavior, threats, violence.
It’s kinda interesting that the earlier examples were all in the context of married couples. It makes it seem like the “angry black woman” stereotype was one part about mischaracterizing black women but also one part about emasculating their male counterpart, whereas the white husband is securely represented as sort of “the lord of his own house”. Seeing the stereotype move beyond the context of marriage is cool too but I’ve run out of specific ideas
In the TV program Amos 'n' Andy, Amos was married, and his wife was more like the traditional white housewife. She was not loud or demanding or argumentative at all. If you understood the character Kingfish, you would understand why his wife Sapphire was the way she was. She loved him and she just wanted him to be and do better.
I know u took a break at one point but man I’m glad you’re bqck
Fuck yeah. Bait and switch like a champ. Came in with my own biases (even as a black man) and came out a learned man.
Nah fr, my G. You changed me. First I heard of you as well. Subbbbbed.
Amos & Andy paved the way for Norman Lear to continue the caricature of blacks. So glad that blacks are writing shows for themselves. Issa is my hero. 💖
Amos 'n' Andy did no such thing so far as caricaturing of blacks. Your comment reveals that you never watched it and are simply going by what you heard or read. If you had watched it, you'd know that the show illustrated Blacks from all walks of life. From the unemployed and hustling (which exist in real life then and now) to the highly educated and professional e.g., judges, doctors, opera singers, professors, banking executives, and more. In the early 1950s to have the first TV show to show the full socio-economic range of Black Americans was truly revolutionary.
I didn’t know any of the history about “Sapphire,” but I’m so glad to learn about it. Thank you for doing such necessary work!
the channel Flemlo raps said it best
When Tom Brady throws a tantrum, it's: He's so passionate
Cam Newton throws a tantrum, it's: He's so childish
I can remember times in my life when I believed these stereotypes, and it was thanks to articles and videos like this that I started interrogating those assumptions. Thank you for contributing to the good work we desperately need right now.
Thank you for pointing out/breaking down the intersectional nature of discrimination
we should uphold people who have the courage to speak out against unjust treatment as role models, not cut them down to size by labeling them as "angry black women". Being confrontational is only "bad" because it is intimidating to those who feels like their position is being challenged, while in reality it is something that we should all be allowed to do without it being misconstrued as being "bad character"
Who talk about angry black woman never hear about "Karens".
I was dating a black woman and I have to say, she was one of the most calm persons I ever see, the angry was me, white guy (like we don't have a lot of white guys on screen each 4 years.
Last thing: Serena is fucking amazing and gorgeous.
This is such a good video. Also! Thank you for including subtitles!
Insightful and well put! Great content!
I'd say most of those stereotypes didn't start during slavery, but right after. As long as we were servants, black people were fine. When we moved beyond that role, THEN we were lazy, shiftless, etc. And that was part of the justifications for Jim Crow laws and what not.
I really like your videos, I feel like you help me think about a lot of difficult topics without getting overwhelmed or emotionally drowned. I feel like you're presenting multilayered ideas and perspectives that are intuitive to stay with you through. Great work
I know of few UA-camrs who nail such an excellent balance of nuance and succinctness like T1J. Keep it up!
You continue to be my favorite nuanced essayist. Thank you.
It would have been a bit more relevant to mention other female tennis players like Chris Evert or Martina Higgins who were absolutely nasty to umpires and judge lines. Having another female pro players as comparison, and of her generation like Higgins, would have brought extra relevance and spare the usual comparison( at times implicit likening) of Black women to other men.
My ex just told me that men are asking for “ submissive women” because most the black women the know are like his 2 nieces one of which he definitely sees as combative when she literally just has a learning disability and behave just like his brother whom his family sees as a wounded bird. The other niece just has trauma and actually tries to behave like more masculine it’s so weird and sad
I'm unsure if she is on Nebula, but I'd highly recommend the videos of Khadija Mbowe. She does a lot of videos on stereotypes and tropes, especially focusing on the black community. As a white man from the UK I cannot tell you how much I have learned from her about this subject, she has not only taught me a lot of new thing's but helped me to identify my own systemic biases. I honestly can't recommend her video's enough.
What are your thoughts on Amber from Invincible? She gets the angry black woman vibe from the public and I get it, but I feel there was more to it behind it than that and it feels like the writers had cut it to make way for the central plot of the show. Thoughts.
Beautiful work. Thanks for the contribution, there's hope.
As always, great analysis on a complex and complicated topic.
Am pretty confident that Angie on 30Rock is indeed satirically written. Most of the characters who stand out on that show are.
I legit thought this channel was dead. I haven’t gotten a single recommended video from this channel in a very long time.
Ive worked in retail and fast food for over 15 years. Ive met white karens, asian karens, and indian karens. I have never once met a black karen. I've had asertive and demanding customers who are black but knowing what you isn't being a karen or angry loud. I've only had to have the cops escort out white women who want to become violent because we dont a toy in stock or they can't get breakfast at 5pm. Why is it that these women are a meme to laugh at? But confident black women are a problem? I will also admit the loudest angriest person I know, the only coworker I am scared of happens to be a black woman. But my fear has more to do with transphobia than her race and I've only seen her anger in regards to my being trans.
6:00 my grandmother LOVED the Amos n’ Andy sitcom. She didn’t think it was racist, she said it was the best portrayal of Black folks in TV or movies in that time period.
There have been a lot of times that people have ignored me trying to deal with things in a calm manner, until it eventually makes me very agitated and then I get angry, and then they double back and tell me that I don't have a right to be angry EVEN THOUGH THEY IGNORED ME WHEN I WAS QUIET. So the world clearly wants Black women to blow up, but once we blow up it's a problem. It's like that saying, "they'll treat you like an animal until you strike out like one, then they'll kill you like one."
Sir you need to write a book. I would love to read these in a textbook. I wish these ideas were taught in school! I wish I found your videos sooner. I just binged much of your videos back to back.
Thanks for this video! I'd never thought about this being a trope, but now that you point it out I realize just how pervasive it is.
Food for thought here. Thanks for making the video.
Thank you for asking those critical questions at the 9 minute (or so) mark
Because of me being a black woman and a woman, in general and my emotions and concerns mostly being downplayed a lot of the time, I'm generally only showing happiness, whether it's fake or not. Any other emotions I tend to have a terrible time portraying, so I'm mostly indifferent or numb most of the time until I can't be anymore.
Wait until you get old. You'll stop giving a shit. I'm white, but, the way I was brought up, females were not supposed to have anger. Now that I'm old, and I know that some people are judging me for that, too, I don't even care. Sometimes anger is legit. It's like the old T-shirt: "If you're smiling, you must not understand the situation."
I always saw Angie on 30 rock as a satirization of the trope, but even if that's the case it still balances right on the line between parody and problematic. Thank you for making this video, us white people (especially white dudes) don't often think much about this sort of thing, and I think that should change!
Even Happiness and joy is seen as intimidating on Black women. A group of Black girls giggling were once accused of being on drugs by their teacher. They were elementary school-age kids.
I honestly wish people would just leave us alone, which is why I join and create spaces exclusive to Black women.
Hmm there is also the “uppety” black woman when someone is calm and well informed. So you can’t win, be forceful and direct- “angry”, thoughtful and informed- “uppety”
Such a good video. T1j dont miss
bruh its crazy how common this stereotype is, like any time there are a group of "mean girls" on TV shows or movies, theres always 1 black one thats considered the "scary" or "angry" one.
T1j you are an absolute treasure, seemingly pulling thoughts from my head but communicating them so much better than I can. And I am not a slouch :D
That two second clip of Lindsey Graham made me angry, though. He may not be an architect of division, that's too much credit. However he pursues division. Talk about a totem for sexism and racism. And the most infuriating part is he may be neither! But he supports them. Something something Duck :D
Excellent video, it is always a pleasure.
In addition to what you said, I've known more than a few black women who have had legitimate anger management issues emanating from their own trauma histories and mental illnesses. There's a level at which the angry black woman trope can be quite ableist, and its prevalence in reality shows and viral social media videos can be extremely exploitative. That's not to insinuate that any time a black woman expresses anger that it's a result of a problem, but it does mean that - just like all other people - black women's anger can be unhealthy and problematic FOR THEM. A lot of the black women I've known who've suffered with this issue have had very deep feelings of shame and guilt wrapped up in seeking help because they felt like they were scientifically confirming a horrible stereotype about black women. That's such a horrible burden to put on them. The desire to disprove that stereotype is understandable and noble 99% of the time, but it can become unhealthy when it inhibits someone from seeking help and healing.
YES! I hate to take race out of your argument, but overall I think we need to normalize women just being more assertive! Want to shrink the pay gap between men and women? Teach women that it's ok to be super assertive like the "typical" man. I've met so many badass and inspiring women. I have a daughter now and I'm going to raise her to be just as badass and inspiring!
Great video man. Appreciate your work.
When I was younger I used to goof with my white or Hispanic female friends and say they were scary or intimidating because they were, in reality, soft and vulnerable. They appreciated that. I was unaware of the stereotype so when I moved to Los Angeles, i made the same joke and got absolutely torn apart by a black woman I met at film school. She still won't speak to me, not that I particularly blame her.
Good video, well made and insightful
8:41 being labeled anything by default that doesn’t apply to you, would make most people angry… got to love those self fulfilling prophesies.
Hey T1J. I know you said these videos get the most views but I hear wanted to say I love your gaming content as well.
I would love more in-depth looks at specific stereotypes you're familiar with. This was pretty darn interesting!
Great video yet again dude!