If you think that encounter rate is bad, try playing "Zoids Legacy" for the GBA. Throughout pretty much the whole game, you're lucky when you can pull off a full three steps without a battle triggering.
I havent finished the whole video yet, but judging by previous entries only having 1 dungeon per game, I can't believe you picked Mt Moon over the Rock Tunnel. Maybe its because I never found Flash as a kid and went through the entire thing blind, but I was stuck in the Rock Tunnel for HOURS. It was horrible.
man. you definitely belong into the salty spitoon, kid. and yes i had a similar problem on my first playthrough until my brother told me where to find flash. static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Rock+tunnel+dont+read+the+tags_b744d4_3887067.jpg
Even if you have Flash, Rock Tunnel's still a pain because it's such a linear gauntlet of trainers without much reward for exploring off the beaten path. At least in Mt. Moon, most of the trainers are avoidable if you don't mind not getting all the items.
Mt. Moon is at the beginning of the game, thats all. Your Pokemon aren't strong enough to OHKO wild Pokemon at this point. Not much money for potions, escape rope or repels. At the time you arrive Rock Tunnel everything is much smoother.
The problem with FFLII is that there is "one right way" to do everything and if you don't do that you're up a creek without a paddle...you have to restart the whole game and try again. Back in grade school my friends told me horror stories about the Apollo boss battle...and he wasn't even the last one.
If that one way is leveling up your characters, then yes, that's kind of true about most RPGs. But I've been through FF Legend 2 at least a dozen times with different sorts of parties. Apollo is only overly difficult if you have been running from enemies quite frequently. But I do admit, certain party types do need quite a bit of grinding - especially humans. The easiest party type is probably 4 robots, just put lasers on them all and Apollo can be melted with ease.
Want to hear something worse? I trudged through that game for hours, even going through the Nasty Dungeon. I wound up beating the final boss. I saved the game immediately after to go take care of something. I came back, eager to see the ending and *THE SAVE BATTERY FKING DIED, RESETTING ALL MY GAME SAVES*
Aw man the Apollo fight was downright fustrating i fought him in the ds remake and he just loves to spam flare which will probably take down your whole party if ill prepared and to add insult to injury the unbreakable magi weapons you get are taken away by him so your back to relying on breakable weapons other than Excalibur the only other boss thats almost as annoying as him is venus with that instakill move
Clicked to see "I wonder where the FFL2 nasty dungeon ranked." My favorite part is how the NPC teleports you back into the MIDDLE of the dungeon if you argue with her. :-D
Pokémon Blue kept me busy during a disastrous Florida trip many decades ago. I don’t remember much, but Ma says it was an exercise in attrition. However, I was quiet the whole way because I was focused on this game. She joked that she owed Nintendo a thank you letter.
I don't understand why Mt. Moon is on this list. The only explanation is that the player never played the game any further. It's as standard as an early dungeon can get, without any mechanics or obstacles that are cause for concern or frustration.
It's early with the zubat in there having one of the highest encounter rates in the entire game on top of introducing the confusion status through those same zubat having supersonic. On top of that anything aside from your starter is likely still too weak to be one or two shotting wilds, not to mention zubat are hella fast so running is out of the picture at that point in the game. Money early on is also very limited and most players would have rather stocked up on poke balls rather than potions with their limited funds. All in all, earlygame caves in Pokemon are just tedious slogs that a low leveled team just aren't really prepared to handle, especially for a first playthrough. Whereas by the time you get to rock tunnel for example, you've likely already mastered the game's basic mechanics and have a team capable of standing up to whatever you may find on top of being much more prepared financially.
@@TheKabuto90 I feel like all that though would only be applicable as an issue if it's the very first RPG you've ever played. Which was probably the case for a lot of people, but still hardly warrants the dungeon as being bad, or problematic in its design.
Mt. Moon is honestly a very dumb pick. As annoying as Zubat may be, it's the least strenuous of the caves. Rock Tunnel and Seafoam Islands are way worse.
Rock Tunnel is worse. Forces you to have a Pokemon with flash. Random dungeons are very fun in my opinion, if they are done correctly (like Mystery Dungeon). They make you unable to rely on memorization and instead on how well you know skills. Good list otherwise
Like this page and what I do here? Consider supporting me on patreon! www.patreon.com/davidvinc [0:34] - 10) Mount Moon - Pokemon Blue/Red [1:41] - 9) The Underwater Castle - The Final Fantasy Legend [2:45] - 8) Random Dungeons - Lufia: The Legend Returns [3:39] - 7) Undersea Volcano - Final Fantasy Adventure [4:59] - 6) Mount Mortar - Pokemon Gold/Silver [6:01] - 5) Nasty Dungeon - Final Fantasy Legend 2 [6:59] - 4) Fort Mars - Ninja Boy 2 [7:58] - 3) Blizzard Mountain - Great Greed [9:00] - 2) The Shadow Hold - Magi Nation [9:55] - 1) The Underground Labyrinth - The Sword of Hope
Thanks for making a video mentioning the old Final Fantasy Legend and Mystic Quest/Adventures of Mana games. Those games were my childhood and made RPGs my favourite genre.
By that point in Final Fantasy Adventure, I always had enough HP to just walk over the lava with no problem. Just level up in the snow field. Equip the flame chain and one hit enemies that dish out signifigant Exp.
Yeah, I was a little surprised about that one even being on the list considering I don't really recall any overly difficult parts of the game outside of the point right around Davias's country after crashing the airship. Mystic Quest (as Final Fantasy Adventure is called here) was actually a really well done game, IMO it was more satisfying than Link's Awakening.
Hey man I'm a fan of your rpg videos so because of me not seeing this and all of your older ones that I've really liked I'm subscribing right now. Your channel is underrated in my opinion.
Ah Magi-Nation. I regret giving my copy away, it's such a classic. Would love it if Nintendo put it up on Switch or Something, it's a Classic. I miss the series..... No there was never an anime, what are you talking about, that's crazy talk. That never happened.
@@elmoisred616 It lasted longer in Japan funnily enough. Probably why there was an Anime and a Japan only remake of the game in question on GBA (Only they made it worse by replacing Tony, who was a pretty good protagonist given what kind of game he was in, with Dan whose personality is apparently just Kid Goku. Without understanding why Goku's traits worked for him and really only him.).
Mt. Moon is annoying, but the Gen 1 dungeon I hate is Seafoam Islands. Yeah it's optional but Articuno was at the end of it. The encounter rate was sky high with fairly tough enemies, and a pretty complex puzzle that spanned multiple floors...did I mention that you get encounters while trying to push around boulders, which would distract you, make you push the boulder too far, and so you would have to leave the room to reset it? All while dealing with encounters on the way there are back? Yeah, nowadays I'd use repel on those parts, but I didn't really understand Repels as a kid. Why would I make battles stop? I want to find all the wild Pokémon and either catch them or fight them for experience. I avoided Trainers, but not wild battles.
Well, I got the gameboy in 1989 and it never left my side. Also, I was one of those weird kids who ONLY played RPGs. The only other games I've ever really played were Mario and Kirby - and only those on the NES and SNES. Once in highschool I got the PSX and stuck to RPGs 100% since.
The entry with Magi Nation - The Shadow Hold brought back gaming memories, pretty much all across 80's games and even some early 90s games. ANY time I here music like what was in that entry I knew I was in for something hellish and awful. It sets the tone for imminent disaster and pain. It doesn't remind me of one game in particular but there was something about songs from this era of gaming that just let you know things were about to get hard, and not in a good way.
#5 - Then i guess I should be proud for having willingly tackled and conquered this dungeon, once. ... And yes, Satan himself did in fact own that place. Then again, perhaps the final dungeon of the game was even worse, somehow. Final Fantasy Legends 2 is definitely one of the tougher RPG's I ever had the persistence to make it through.
Hey. Not sure if you read comments on old videos, but I was actually playing through Great Greed and Blizzard Mountain didn't seem as bad as you made it sound, although part of that might be that they realized how long it was and put two inns and a shop spaced out well enough that you can get through without extreme trouble. Worst part for me was that they make you head back in to find a child after you think you're done and then walk back out again. At least I gained about seven levels before I was done with that place.
Speaking of Gold and Silver, I actually disliked the Ice Path more than Mt. Mortar, because it's mandatory and it has annoying slide-on-the-ice puzzles.
I will be honest, pokemon red/blue doesnt even rate a mention to me. Those game boy dungeons tended to be the worst thing for any system ever. Pretty much all I play are rpgs so the gameboy titles all blur together in my ancient history but I remember pretty much every one having a dungeon that ended the game for me it was so absurd. Pokemon was easy because I only bothered to catch the pokemon I absolutely needed to own and only fought with my main so by mt moon I was leveled enough to oneshot zubats if i didnt just repel a few times and get it over with.
I like the "IDEA" of random dungeons; their execution does have a horrendous track record. Heres what I want but never find: 1) exterior design random, but interior mechanics set. to try and simplify my thoughts heres my example: A Mario game like Super mario world for the SNES; but you enter a castle or ghost house and a Mario maker like system randomizes the levels make up keeping certain truths to exist; difficulty set to a shown value, its never impossible to finish, all required elements (keys or other needed collectables) can be reached in the same spot of each map. success may require certain levels of skill but knowing the Key and the Door it goes to location, just not what puzzles exist between can be fun. 2) Enemies are based off 2 factors in each dungeon; first they are either casual/easy/normal/hard/killer which means, second they are based off your level/power. casual would be fights that require almost no effort and small but often compensation. Easy would be fights that are not cake walks or slaughters but should never claim a party members life unless you never heal or pay attention so its your own fault, the fight rate is more often then normal but not Zubat levels of stupid. Normal is typical old school RPG annoying how often but at worse the foes are your equals so play smart and you can handle it; this and Easy have just as good of drops but Easy being more often. Hard the foe is 50% greater than your party and rate of encounter is half normal the drops however are 3 times better; victory requires good tactics and strategy not luck. Killer is double or greater your party but 10% as often as normal, the drops are all the best stuff and to win only the best players and decent luck will succeed... basically an encounter with minibosses only. 3) Boss room layout, required items,etc. are all set in specific dungeons; basically at any point you should be at a dungeon you will be able to succeed at it. I do agree with backtracking as a minimum and add that grinding is the devils tool and should be discouraged and not existing. Thats why scaling foes is always the better option. That is Scaling based off Party average or Lowest Party member. I play RPG's for the Lore an Explore not the fights and treasure (though that side needs to be encouraged it should not be the selling point). I may disagree with your opinion often with your videos but thats mainly because I feel you focus on issues that I do not care about for why you do or don't like games; overall I like that you generally like the same kind of games even if FF1 style of looks is a turn off for me (not a deal breaker), for instances I like FF3 on SNES the best not its original or its remakes, but having some parts not like the others for map travel kept its style from getting to me. I find myself asking why I should play the Dragon quests of old not for their stories but because those battle screens look ugly to me and that distracts my enjoyment of the rest. But modern RPG's (Looking at you FF15/Skyrim/Fallout) just have no structure so within a half hour I find myself bored out of my mind wanting some direction or motivation to explore; because hey nothing kills my care like side quests do. I want the Lore about 20 times more than the exploration, so if it takes to long to find enjoyable world building then exploration becomes tedious. Link (Zelda 2, not generic naming) was fun for me because everywhere led somewhere, questions of why things were at their destinations kept me interested and the story was admittedly lacking but I felt like I was learning of Links origin story... thanks to where ever I found out the truth behind Link and his purpose and name for ruining a franchise for me. Anyhow more to the point its games where talking to towns folk matter and your not rail roaded into nothing but boss fights to learn stuff I like best, but when you talk to the 3rd citizen to the right of the door in the town and all you get is "hey have you heard of how evil that demon lord is; or small talk that I just do not care. every NPC should come across as having a life and your just one more part of it... not endless repeat of a singular pointless message. Shop owners that say things beside hi and thanks for the business. Sorry for this long message but Man its hard to find dungeons I truly like so if I am going to be disappointed anyway than I want it to be random so its "new" feeling. I never hear you talk of Growlanser series, I like its time travel gimmick that lets you pull characters from the previous games save file to the new game (MC from game 1 to game 2 and MC from game 2 to game 3), I like the story of refugees and war that I know the story for, and game 2 and 3 have a lot of voice acted lines in them if not fully VA'd... not the best VA but I take what I get and Like Hans/Hugo's VA as both characters have the same person, the sound track I like also.
Nice to see such a list. It really takes me back, especially Pokemon. I cannot remember how often we had trips or where we went, but i can remember bringing my GameBoy everywhere with me. Even today, i play a few Gameboy games on my phone. Do you play through these games and record the gameplay or do you take videos you find on the internet? If you are playing through these, that's a lot of effort.
Maybe a list of number, title, and dungeon in the video description would be helpful. Yes some of the pokemon dungeons can be annoying but you can run from them and can use repels or try to get a shiny zubat (1/8192 chance). I do agree about mount mortar in pokemon to be very time consuming dungeon and you need an entire pair of batteries just to get through it. Final fantasy, never though they had titles for the gameboy. No zelda title listed? That list below should be in the description: 10. Pokemon generation 1 (red, blue, yellow, leafgreen, firered, lets go pikachu, and lets go eevee): mount moon. 9. Final fantasy legend 1: underwater castle 8. Lufia the legend returns: random dungeons 7. Final fantasy adventure: undersea volcano 6. Pokemon generation 2 (gold, silver, heartgold, soulsilver): mount mortar 5. Final fantasy legend 2: nasty dungeon 4. Ninja boy 2: fort mars 3. Great Greed: blizzard mountain 2. Magi nation: the shadowhold 1. The sword of hope: underground labyrinth Aside from pokemon, never played any of those titles and would be interesting to play them. Pokemon is available on the virtual console for 3ds and possibly wiiu. Final fantasy legend 1 and 2 maybe available on ios and android but no virtual console. Lufia the legend returns is available on virtual console for 3ds and possibly wiiu. Ninja boy 2 is not available on virtual console, only gameboy and you need to distinguish this title from many other flash games with this name. Great Greed and Magi nation are not available on virtual console, but the sword of hope is available on virtual console. After the list shows what I found out regarding which titles we can still play today in good quality such as on virtual console, alternatively you can spend more cash to get the supaboy, supergameboy, and the gamboy black and white games to play them in the best quality possible.
Mt. Moon? Rock Tunnel was an absolute nightmare. I remember crawling out of there trying with all my might to avoid trainer’s gazes as I booked it for Lavender Town. Plus you need Flash for Rock tunnel, which wastes a move slot. But yeah, Ill give you Mt. Mortar. Honestly, there were playthroughs where I’d skip that place altogether. I loved GSC, but that place was awful.
I hate Zubats. Not only do you have to fight a ton of them and the fights are annoying, the rewards are low. I recall them giving woefully little exp. I disagree about the FFL games though. As a kid, I liked exploring the undersea area and saving up enough for premium weapons at the surprise town down there. The orb fights also let you score higher level meat for your monsters. I liked the Nasty Dungeon too. It was both optional and hardcore. The increased risk and reward made it exciting. The fairy tricked me on my first play through. I was mad but I had missed a chest so it worked out. As a kid, beating this felt like more of an accomplishment than average RPG dungeons.
Mount Moon was painfully easy.... what? The underwater castle was also easy if you took some time to power up your characters. It's not that bad if you have 10 minutes to fight for some money to buy stat boosters. I think I mentioned before that Lufia: The Legend Returns was intended for PS1 at the start. It made sense for data limitations to make the dungeons random, also to include more monsters in a dungeon so the player could power up. The max HP in FF Adventure is 999 and it's rigged to max out as you level up. I've been to max level in that game many times and it's impossible to not max out. It's also really easy to have 350+ HP by that point in the game so I have no idea how you had trouble with that dungeon. Mount Mortar wasn't hard, but it did take a while. It's also not hard to have 2 Pokemon for the HM requirements. The encounter rate for the Nasty Dungeon isn't that bad, but the monster for sure will ruin you. I usually saved every 10 or so steps and reset if I couldn't run from the monsters. Also Elixiers restore characters. I don't recall if this means Mutant MP as well, but I'm pretty sure it does.
It's like they knew how annoying Zubats were when in later games they made it so Golbat could only evolve into Crobat if it's happiness was high enough.
For #10 and the Zubats, status affects in Pokemon are BEYOND bullshit. Playing what I have, any status effect that has a chance of preventing an attack, your personal Pokemon will ALWAYS be prevented from attacking for 3 of the next 4 rounds while wild Pokemon and your opponent will be completely unaffected by the effect for 3 of the 4 turns.
For Mt. Mortar, I just go straight on through. I never bothered with the rest of the place. Ironically, you can even ignore the cave entirely if you have a Pokemon that knows Surf.
I think Nasty Dungeon may be the first example of a bonus dungeon in RPG history. It certainly earns the name. No big surprises here, but for the Game Boy Advance I nominate Elec Man's level from Mega Man: Battle Network. Due to the blackouts, you have a limited time to get through each section before you're pulled out and have to start over again. This also prevents you from saving, and the majority of the normally helpful programs have become corrupted and are actually battles. Alternately, Beast Man's level for being so damn ugly and long.
I ever hated caves in Pokemon games. I haven't played any other rpgs on a Game Boy or GB Color but it actually feels as if I could be glad for not having played any of those titles you mentioned. Very interesting though.
Heh I always had a couple of pokemon caught specifically to be hm monkeys. Totally ignored their existence unless I had a boulder to shift or needed to swim or whatever.
"I hate random dungeons! this is some downright bullshit" had me laughing on the floor good stuff. So Diablo 1 & 2 were not really for you? I get what you mean though sometimes having an idea or layout of a dungeon can make the gameplay much easier rather than randomly exploring and having to run back to a town to heal and save. Just finished FFL2 and the Nasty Dungeon is kind of a pain in the ass. I was never sure if I wanted to drop something or trash something that I might need later. The slog down all the escalators to the final boss was also tedious with a huge encounter rate a lot of the time I would resent the damn game because I would go 2 steps encounter, another 2 steps encounter to the point where you are out of healing and health even with a high HP team. I don't think younger players appreciate how damn hard these games were without a walkthrough guide or map back in the day. Some of these places were brutal in the games to the point when you finish the game you really don't want to pick it up anymore knowing what a shitty dungeon awaits you even if you can swap out different party members to go through the game.
JONATHAN BONILLA Yeah...This game was hard though, at least when I was a kid, so if something super-hard was optional I usually skipped it :P Now if only I knew where I put my cartridge...I never finished this game as a kid either, and I would like to do that at least once. Maybe even restart it and play Shadowhold out proper. This game was great with tone. When it was funny, it was funny. When it was dark, it was dark.
in my opinion rock tunnel is the worst dungeon in Pokemon red/blue not only it's confusing to navigate if you don't have flash but the encounters will try your patience if you don't have repels.
The only really hard part is the boss of the area. The grunts are laughably underleveled and you've already battled the other admins before so you know what to expect from them. The guy at the end however... yeah... I've personally found him to be a huge difficulty spike compared to even the last couple gyms. It was nuts.
number 8 looks distiguishly like pokemon mystery dungeon. i guess you would not like this game either because all dungeons in this game are random too. funnily enough the first 2 games of the spin-off series are quite loved, so i guess maybe it was better executed there than in lufia. or maybe the thing itself is just not your cup of tea.
The biggest problem with Lufia's random dungeons is that most of the treasures you find aren't worth exploring to find, yet you do it anyway for the few chests that may contain worthwhile contents like new special attacks, on top of the fact that you have to cut every single bush and suspicious spot on the walls to find hidden chests and pathways that are in plain sight in PMD. Furthermore, turn-based battles (nothing against those, since turn-based RPGs are my favorite) add to the tedium, amplified by the fact that, also unlike Mystery Dungeon, pretty much all the dungeons look exactly the same, with only a handful of different palette sets used for the numerous locations (i.e. every single cave will look identical without any distinguishing features). Lastly, the music is droning, and if not at first it can quickly become so. Alas, I believe the biggest crime committed by Lufia: The Legend Returns is that it's a Gameboy Color game. As a whole, it tries way too hard to do way too much with its dungeons, battle system, etcetera, yet feels constantly held back by hardware limitations in that most of what it does never seems to fully achieve the potential it could have. Unlike most handheld games that tend to keep things simple, and complement the console they're on, Lufia felt much more like it belonged on a home console, but then was told no so had to make do with what it had.
![Dragonborne - The New BEST RPG On Game Boy! [Homebrew Review]](/img/n.gif)
"the encounter rate here is literally 3 steps -- no joke."
*takes 30 steps with no encounters*
@Talon Van yea, been using InstaFlixxer for since december myself :)
If you think that encounter rate is bad, try playing "Zoids Legacy" for the GBA. Throughout pretty much the whole game, you're lucky when you can pull off a full three steps without a battle triggering.
I havent finished the whole video yet, but judging by previous entries only having 1 dungeon per game, I can't believe you picked Mt Moon over the Rock Tunnel. Maybe its because I never found Flash as a kid and went through the entire thing blind, but I was stuck in the Rock Tunnel for HOURS. It was horrible.
man. you definitely belong into the salty spitoon, kid. and yes i had a similar problem on my first playthrough until my brother told me where to find flash.
static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Rock+tunnel+dont+read+the+tags_b744d4_3887067.jpg
They did something wrong there, I went through it blind as well. Glad I'm not the only one with that horrible experience! xD
Even if you have Flash, Rock Tunnel's still a pain because it's such a linear gauntlet of trainers without much reward for exploring off the beaten path. At least in Mt. Moon, most of the trainers are avoidable if you don't mind not getting all the items.
Mt. Moon is at the beginning of the game, thats all. Your Pokemon aren't strong enough to OHKO wild Pokemon at this point. Not much money for potions, escape rope or repels. At the time you arrive Rock Tunnel everything is much smoother.
Even then, the walls are differently colored even in the dark. So you can "feel" you way to the end.
The problem with FFLII is that there is "one right way" to do everything and if you don't do that you're up a creek without a paddle...you have to restart the whole game and try again. Back in grade school my friends told me horror stories about the Apollo boss battle...and he wasn't even the last one.
If that one way is leveling up your characters, then yes, that's kind of true about most RPGs. But I've been through FF Legend 2 at least a dozen times with different sorts of parties. Apollo is only overly difficult if you have been running from enemies quite frequently. But I do admit, certain party types do need quite a bit of grinding - especially humans. The easiest party type is probably 4 robots, just put lasers on them all and Apollo can be melted with ease.
Want to hear something worse? I trudged through that game for hours, even going through the Nasty Dungeon. I wound up beating the final boss. I saved the game immediately after to go take care of something. I came back, eager to see the ending and *THE SAVE BATTERY FKING DIED, RESETTING ALL MY GAME SAVES*
@@Morbutt Damn... I think my one moment of true game rage came when my save battery died on Dragon Warrior 3, so I understand your pain.
Aw man the Apollo fight was downright fustrating i fought him in the ds remake and he just loves to spam flare which will probably take down your whole party if ill prepared and to add insult to injury the unbreakable magi weapons you get are taken away by him so your back to relying on breakable weapons other than Excalibur the only other boss thats almost as annoying as him is venus with that instakill move
Clicked to see "I wonder where the FFL2 nasty dungeon ranked."
My favorite part is how the NPC teleports you back into the MIDDLE of the dungeon if you argue with her. :-D
Pokémon Blue kept me busy during a disastrous Florida trip many decades ago. I don’t remember much, but Ma says it was an exercise in attrition. However, I was quiet the whole way because I was focused on this game. She joked that she owed Nintendo a thank you letter.
I don't understand why Mt. Moon is on this list. The only explanation is that the player never played the game any further. It's as standard as an early dungeon can get, without any mechanics or obstacles that are cause for concern or frustration.
It's early with the zubat in there having one of the highest encounter rates in the entire game on top of introducing the confusion status through those same zubat having supersonic. On top of that anything aside from your starter is likely still too weak to be one or two shotting wilds, not to mention zubat are hella fast so running is out of the picture at that point in the game. Money early on is also very limited and most players would have rather stocked up on poke balls rather than potions with their limited funds. All in all, earlygame caves in Pokemon are just tedious slogs that a low leveled team just aren't really prepared to handle, especially for a first playthrough. Whereas by the time you get to rock tunnel for example, you've likely already mastered the game's basic mechanics and have a team capable of standing up to whatever you may find on top of being much more prepared financially.
@@TheKabuto90 Nah. Even as a kid this cave was easy.
Seriously, Silph Co is nuts. Mt Moon isn't bad at all.
Also, you are given repels and are supposed to use them.
@@TheKabuto90 I feel like all that though would only be applicable as an issue if it's the very first RPG you've ever played. Which was probably the case for a lot of people, but still hardly warrants the dungeon as being bad, or problematic in its design.
Mt. Moon is honestly a very dumb pick.
As annoying as Zubat may be, it's the least strenuous of the caves.
Rock Tunnel and Seafoam Islands are way worse.
Rock tunnel is pretty much a straight line though. Sea-foam island is a pain, but is avoidable.
Seafoam Island has a great reward in store if you persevere
Yeah, Rock Tunnel is a straight line with a lot of avoidable trainers and Seafoam Islands is completely optional.
With Rock Tunnel, you know you're going the right way if you keep battling people
His whole point is that it's the first rather than the worst, and gets the pick for being such a shift in the gameplay.
Rock Tunnel is worse. Forces you to have a Pokemon with flash.
Random dungeons are very fun in my opinion, if they are done correctly (like Mystery Dungeon). They make you unable to rely on memorization and instead on how well you know skills.
Good list otherwise
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[0:34] - 10) Mount Moon - Pokemon Blue/Red
[1:41] - 9) The Underwater Castle - The Final Fantasy Legend
[2:45] - 8) Random Dungeons - Lufia: The Legend Returns
[3:39] - 7) Undersea Volcano - Final Fantasy Adventure
[4:59] - 6) Mount Mortar - Pokemon Gold/Silver
[6:01] - 5) Nasty Dungeon - Final Fantasy Legend 2
[6:59] - 4) Fort Mars - Ninja Boy 2
[7:58] - 3) Blizzard Mountain - Great Greed
[9:00] - 2) The Shadow Hold - Magi Nation
[9:55] - 1) The Underground Labyrinth - The Sword of Hope
Thanks for making a video mentioning the old Final Fantasy Legend and Mystic Quest/Adventures of Mana games. Those games were my childhood and made RPGs my favourite genre.
By that point in Final Fantasy Adventure, I always had enough HP to just walk over the lava with no problem. Just level up in the snow field. Equip the flame chain and one hit enemies that dish out signifigant Exp.
Yeah, I was a little surprised about that one even being on the list considering I don't really recall any overly difficult parts of the game outside of the point right around Davias's country after crashing the airship. Mystic Quest (as Final Fantasy Adventure is called here) was actually a really well done game, IMO it was more satisfying than Link's Awakening.
Hey man I'm a fan of your rpg videos so because of me not seeing this and all of your older ones that I've really liked I'm subscribing right now. Your channel is underrated in my opinion.
Ah Magi-Nation.
I regret giving my copy away, it's such a classic.
Would love it if Nintendo put it up on Switch or Something, it's a Classic.
I miss the series.....
No there was never an anime, what are you talking about, that's crazy talk.
That never happened.
The card game its based on was awesome! Forever loved it more than MTG
@@elmoisred616 It lasted longer in Japan funnily enough.
Probably why there was an Anime and a Japan only remake of the game in question on GBA (Only they made it worse by replacing Tony, who was a pretty good protagonist given what kind of game he was in, with Dan whose personality is apparently just Kid Goku. Without understanding why Goku's traits worked for him and really only him.).
Of course there was an anime. You're the one who is crazy.
Mt. Moon is annoying, but the Gen 1 dungeon I hate is Seafoam Islands. Yeah it's optional but Articuno was at the end of it. The encounter rate was sky high with fairly tough enemies, and a pretty complex puzzle that spanned multiple floors...did I mention that you get encounters while trying to push around boulders, which would distract you, make you push the boulder too far, and so you would have to leave the room to reset it? All while dealing with encounters on the way there are back?
Yeah, nowadays I'd use repel on those parts, but I didn't really understand Repels as a kid. Why would I make battles stop? I want to find all the wild Pokémon and either catch them or fight them for experience. I avoided Trainers, but not wild battles.
Also it's an ice dungeon.
I hate ice dungeons.
I got so lost in there as a kid I can never bring myself to go back even with Escape Ropes.
Sayak Sen
It’s not an ice dungeon. Only in Gen IV’s heart gold and soul silver is there any ice puzzles in sea foam.
How do you find time for so many RPG's? 😮
Well, I got the gameboy in 1989 and it never left my side. Also, I was one of those weird kids who ONLY played RPGs. The only other games I've ever really played were Mario and Kirby - and only those on the NES and SNES. Once in highschool I got the PSX and stuck to RPGs 100% since.
@@davidvinc That's dedication! 🕺
@@davidvinc same. I mostly played rpgs
I'm also 100% RPG player but only in GBA and SNES via emulator.
@@Morunic777 Me too I downloaded a lot of rpg games for gbc, gba, snes, nds, psp and psx😄
I was still sad when i beat the lufia series, and realized no more games will ever be made. Shed a tear for capsule monsters
The entry with Magi Nation - The Shadow Hold brought back gaming memories, pretty much all across 80's games and even some early 90s games. ANY time I here music like what was in that entry I knew I was in for something hellish and awful. It sets the tone for imminent disaster and pain. It doesn't remind me of one game in particular but there was something about songs from this era of gaming that just let you know things were about to get hard, and not in a good way.
Omg, you used FFL III’s soundtrack. Glad I’m not the only one who played those games (III was easier to play).
Life leech... my guy...
The footage even said Leech Life in it lol
Watch every Pokemon fan get triggered
#5 - Then i guess I should be proud for having willingly tackled and conquered this dungeon, once. ... And yes, Satan himself did in fact own that place. Then again, perhaps the final dungeon of the game was even worse, somehow. Final Fantasy Legends 2 is definitely one of the tougher RPG's I ever had the persistence to make it through.
Also, for those unaware, Magi Nation had an anime.
Hey, David! I only recently found your channel, but its fast becoming one of my favorites. Keep up the great work!
3:36 Pokémon mystery dungeon games made great use of generated dungeons...
It's a Roguelike, so it's a special case.
Hey. Not sure if you read comments on old videos, but I was actually playing through Great Greed and Blizzard Mountain didn't seem as bad as you made it sound, although part of that might be that they realized how long it was and put two inns and a shop spaced out well enough that you can get through without extreme trouble. Worst part for me was that they make you head back in to find a child after you think you're done and then walk back out again. At least I gained about seven levels before I was done with that place.
Speaking of Gold and Silver, I actually disliked the Ice Path more than Mt. Mortar, because it's mandatory and it has annoying slide-on-the-ice puzzles.
Getting lost in a huge multi level dungeon is every RPG gamers worst nightmare especially for someone who dosent save first before going in.
I will be honest, pokemon red/blue doesnt even rate a mention to me. Those game boy dungeons tended to be the worst thing for any system ever. Pretty much all I play are rpgs so the gameboy titles all blur together in my ancient history but I remember pretty much every one having a dungeon that ended the game for me it was so absurd. Pokemon was easy because I only bothered to catch the pokemon I absolutely needed to own and only fought with my main so by mt moon I was leveled enough to oneshot zubats if i didnt just repel a few times and get it over with.
I know I am late to the party but, honestly, I always hated Rock Tunnel more then Mt. Moon as at least Mt. Moon you could see without Flash
What game was shown at 0:20?
That looked good. :)
Rolan's Curse 2
I like the "IDEA" of random dungeons; their execution does have a horrendous track record.
Heres what I want but never find:
1) exterior design random, but interior mechanics set. to try and simplify my thoughts heres my example: A Mario game like Super mario world for the SNES; but you enter a castle or ghost house and a Mario maker like system randomizes the levels make up keeping certain truths to exist; difficulty set to a shown value, its never impossible to finish, all required elements (keys or other needed collectables) can be reached in the same spot of each map. success may require certain levels of skill but knowing the Key and the Door it goes to location, just not what puzzles exist between can be fun.
2) Enemies are based off 2 factors in each dungeon; first they are either casual/easy/normal/hard/killer which means, second they are based off your level/power. casual would be fights that require almost no effort and small but often compensation. Easy would be fights that are not cake walks or slaughters but should never claim a party members life unless you never heal or pay attention so its your own fault, the fight rate is more often then normal but not Zubat levels of stupid. Normal is typical old school RPG annoying how often but at worse the foes are your equals so play smart and you can handle it; this and Easy have just as good of drops but Easy being more often. Hard the foe is 50% greater than your party and rate of encounter is half normal the drops however are 3 times better; victory requires good tactics and strategy not luck. Killer is double or greater your party but 10% as often as normal, the drops are all the best stuff and to win only the best players and decent luck will succeed... basically an encounter with minibosses only.
3) Boss room layout, required items,etc. are all set in specific dungeons; basically at any point you should be at a dungeon you will be able to succeed at it.
I do agree with backtracking as a minimum and add that grinding is the devils tool and should be discouraged and not existing. Thats why scaling foes is always the better option. That is Scaling based off Party average or Lowest Party member.
I play RPG's for the Lore an Explore not the fights and treasure (though that side needs to be encouraged it should not be the selling point).
I may disagree with your opinion often with your videos but thats mainly because I feel you focus on issues that I do not care about for why you do or don't like games; overall I like that you generally like the same kind of games even if FF1 style of looks is a turn off for me (not a deal breaker), for instances I like FF3 on SNES the best not its original or its remakes, but having some parts not like the others for map travel kept its style from getting to me.
I find myself asking why I should play the Dragon quests of old not for their stories but because those battle screens look ugly to me and that distracts my enjoyment of the rest. But modern RPG's (Looking at you FF15/Skyrim/Fallout) just have no structure so within a half hour I find myself bored out of my mind wanting some direction or motivation to explore; because hey nothing kills my care like side quests do. I want the Lore about 20 times more than the exploration, so if it takes to long to find enjoyable world building then exploration becomes tedious.
Link (Zelda 2, not generic naming) was fun for me because everywhere led somewhere, questions of why things were at their destinations kept me interested and the story was admittedly lacking but I felt like I was learning of Links origin story... thanks to where ever I found out the truth behind Link and his purpose and name for ruining a franchise for me.
Anyhow more to the point its games where talking to towns folk matter and your not rail roaded into nothing but boss fights to learn stuff I like best, but when you talk to the 3rd citizen to the right of the door in the town and all you get is "hey have you heard of how evil that demon lord is; or small talk that I just do not care. every NPC should come across as having a life and your just one more part of it... not endless repeat of a singular pointless message. Shop owners that say things beside hi and thanks for the business.
Sorry for this long message but Man its hard to find dungeons I truly like so if I am going to be disappointed anyway than I want it to be random so its "new" feeling.
I never hear you talk of Growlanser series, I like its time travel gimmick that lets you pull characters from the previous games save file to the new game (MC from game 1 to game 2 and MC from game 2 to game 3), I like the story of refugees and war that I know the story for, and game 2 and 3 have a lot of voice acted lines in them if not fully VA'd... not the best VA but I take what I get and Like Hans/Hugo's VA as both characters have the same person, the sound track I like also.
Good to see you returning to good old 8 bit
Nice to see such a list. It really takes me back, especially Pokemon. I cannot remember how often we had trips or where we went, but i can remember bringing my GameBoy everywhere with me. Even today, i play a few Gameboy games on my phone.
Do you play through these games and record the gameplay or do you take videos you find on the internet? If you are playing through these, that's a lot of effort.
Maybe a list of number, title, and dungeon in the video description would be helpful.
Yes some of the pokemon dungeons can be annoying but you can run from them and can use repels or try to get a shiny zubat (1/8192 chance).
I do agree about mount mortar in pokemon to be very time consuming dungeon and you need an entire pair of batteries just to get through it.
Final fantasy, never though they had titles for the gameboy. No zelda title listed? That list below should be in the description:
10. Pokemon generation 1 (red, blue, yellow, leafgreen, firered, lets go pikachu, and lets go eevee): mount moon.
9. Final fantasy legend 1: underwater castle
8. Lufia the legend returns: random dungeons
7. Final fantasy adventure: undersea volcano
6. Pokemon generation 2 (gold, silver, heartgold, soulsilver): mount mortar
5. Final fantasy legend 2: nasty dungeon
4. Ninja boy 2: fort mars
3. Great Greed: blizzard mountain
2. Magi nation: the shadowhold
1. The sword of hope: underground labyrinth
Aside from pokemon, never played any of those titles and would be interesting to play them. Pokemon is available on the virtual console for 3ds and possibly wiiu.
Final fantasy legend 1 and 2 maybe available on ios and android but no virtual console.
Lufia the legend returns is available on virtual console for 3ds and possibly wiiu.
Ninja boy 2 is not available on virtual console, only gameboy and you need to distinguish this title from many other flash games with this name.
Great Greed and Magi nation are not available on virtual console, but the sword of hope is available on virtual console.
After the list shows what I found out regarding which titles we can still play today in good quality such as on virtual console, alternatively you can spend more cash to get the supaboy, supergameboy, and the gamboy black and white games to play them in the best quality possible.
Where did you find those great map layouts?
Rpg classics shrines and gamefaqs
0:20 What game is this? I haven't seen it before.
Rolan's Curse 2. It's a pretty sweet action RPG, I mentioned it in my Top 10 Gameboy RPGs List.
Mt. Moon? Rock Tunnel was an absolute nightmare. I remember crawling out of there trying with all my might to avoid trainer’s gazes as I booked it for Lavender Town. Plus you need Flash for Rock tunnel, which wastes a move slot.
But yeah, Ill give you Mt. Mortar. Honestly, there were playthroughs where I’d skip that place altogether. I loved GSC, but that place was awful.
Random dungeons are awesome stop hatin pkmn mystery dungeon is one of the best examples
It works much better in rogue likes and dungeon crawlers imo
Mystery Dungeon is definitely an exception. 99% of the time random dungeons are just tedious slogs with no real reward or purpose.
PMD is a Roguelike, that's different.
There's a Roguelike in the Lufia series? I've always wanted to get into the series, and I think you just helped me do it. Thanks!
Indigo Plateau for getting Victory Road permit
OMG someone remembered magi nation. I've loved that game, but I never really found anyone else that played it.
Mount Mortar is a huge headache! At least you can skip it using Surf...
Bro mount moon isn't even close to being the worst dungeon in gen 1
I hate Zubats. Not only do you have to fight a ton of them and the fights are annoying, the rewards are low. I recall them giving woefully little exp. I disagree about the FFL games though. As a kid, I liked exploring the undersea area and saving up enough for premium weapons at the surprise town down there. The orb fights also let you score higher level meat for your monsters.
I liked the Nasty Dungeon too. It was both optional and hardcore. The increased risk and reward made it exciting. The fairy tricked me on my first play through. I was mad but I had missed a chest so it worked out. As a kid, beating this felt like more of an accomplishment than average RPG dungeons.
Mount Moon was painfully easy.... what?
The underwater castle was also easy if you took some time to power up your characters. It's not that bad if you have 10 minutes to fight for some money to buy stat boosters.
I think I mentioned before that Lufia: The Legend Returns was intended for PS1 at the start. It made sense for data limitations to make the dungeons random, also to include more monsters in a dungeon so the player could power up.
The max HP in FF Adventure is 999 and it's rigged to max out as you level up. I've been to max level in that game many times and it's impossible to not max out. It's also really easy to have 350+ HP by that point in the game so I have no idea how you had trouble with that dungeon.
Mount Mortar wasn't hard, but it did take a while. It's also not hard to have 2 Pokemon for the HM requirements.
The encounter rate for the Nasty Dungeon isn't that bad, but the monster for sure will ruin you. I usually saved every 10 or so steps and reset if I couldn't run from the monsters.
Also Elixiers restore characters. I don't recall if this means Mutant MP as well, but I'm pretty sure it does.
Whoa, what's the game at 0:11? Never played that one.
Survival kids 2
@@davidvinc I think that's at 0:01 I don't think that's Survival Kids 2 by the look of the 2 games.
You’re right, sorry, it’s Revelations the Demon Slayer.
@@davidvinc Ah, okay! Thanks!
I can't believe I forgot about the Nasty Dungeon. I guess it's because I seriously didn't want to remember how bad it was!
It's like they knew how annoying Zubats were when in later games they made it so Golbat could only evolve into Crobat if it's happiness was high enough.
0:21 What is this Game?
Rolans curse 2
For #10 and the Zubats, status affects in Pokemon are BEYOND bullshit. Playing what I have, any status effect that has a chance of preventing an attack, your personal Pokemon will ALWAYS be prevented from attacking for 3 of the next 4 rounds while wild Pokemon and your opponent will be completely unaffected by the effect for 3 of the 4 turns.
Nothing from dragon warrior monster? I remember the later ones being horrible to get through as a kid.
For Mt. Mortar, I just go straight on through. I never bothered with the rest of the place. Ironically, you can even ignore the cave entirely if you have a Pokemon that knows Surf.
I’m digging these videos bro. Keep up the good work. +1
Hi David can u make walkthrough "crystareino" rpg game?
I think Nasty Dungeon may be the first example of a bonus dungeon in RPG history. It certainly earns the name.
No big surprises here, but for the Game Boy Advance I nominate Elec Man's level from Mega Man: Battle Network. Due to the blackouts, you have a limited time to get through each section before you're pulled out and have to start over again. This also prevents you from saving, and the majority of the normally helpful programs have become corrupted and are actually battles. Alternately, Beast Man's level for being so damn ugly and long.
Yeah, elec mans level is already on my list. What a pain in the ass that place was.
@@davidvinc Also later on, YHVH's Universe in Shin Mrgami Tensei IV: Apocalypse on the 3DS.
I ever hated caves in Pokemon games. I haven't played any other rpgs on a Game Boy or GB Color but it actually feels as if I could be glad for not having played any of those titles you mentioned. Very interesting though.
Love all these vids! 🤘😎
I personally hate Sabrina’s Gym more than Mt Moon
Yes, especially if you were like me and wanted to beat all of the trainers.
I always hated HM in Pokemon because it doesn’t feel like the natural move the Pokemon would learn and very hard to forget it.
Heh I always had a couple of pokemon caught specifically to be hm monkeys. Totally ignored their existence unless I had a boulder to shift or needed to swim or whatever.
5:55 or you could just go in with 5 Pokemon. Since most people who find the Karate King would know the game well enough to make this decision.
Nowadays, yes. But when I first played it I had no clue and it royally pissed me off to have to go through the place twice.
@@davidvinc I kind of overlooked the "First time I've ever played this" aspect of it. My bad >_>
You can't even get repels b4 Mt. Moon so it makes that even worse.
"I hate random dungeons! this is some downright bullshit" had me laughing on the floor good stuff. So Diablo 1 & 2 were not really for you? I get what you mean though sometimes having an idea or layout of a dungeon can make the gameplay much easier rather than randomly exploring and having to run back to a town to heal and save. Just finished FFL2 and the Nasty Dungeon is kind of a pain in the ass. I was never sure if I wanted to drop something or trash something that I might need later. The slog down all the escalators to the final boss was also tedious with a huge encounter rate a lot of the time I would resent the damn game because I would go 2 steps encounter, another 2 steps encounter to the point where you are out of healing and health even with a high HP team. I don't think younger players appreciate how damn hard these games were without a walkthrough guide or map back in the day. Some of these places were brutal in the games to the point when you finish the game you really don't want to pick it up anymore knowing what a shitty dungeon awaits you even if you can swap out different party members to go through the game.
Shadowhold must have been huge because I never found the cloud frond.. Gonna have to pick that game up again.
JONATHAN BONILLA I always skipped it as a kid XD
@@wingedmirage4226 that poor man orwin... we never saved him lol. I loved the dark atmosphere of this dungeon and the music.
JONATHAN BONILLA Yeah...This game was hard though, at least when I was a kid, so if something super-hard was optional I usually skipped it :P
Now if only I knew where I put my cartridge...I never finished this game as a kid either, and I would like to do that at least once. Maybe even restart it and play Shadowhold out proper.
This game was great with tone. When it was funny, it was funny. When it was dark, it was dark.
in my opinion rock tunnel is the worst dungeon in Pokemon red/blue not only it's confusing to navigate if you don't have flash but the encounters will try your patience if you don't have repels.
Almost 2 years later, but my favorite GBA RPG is still Lufia II, explicitly because of the roguelike / Mystery Dungeon aesthetic.
The team rocket radio station in goldenrod was hard for me back in the day. Idky but everything else was pretty smooth.
The only really hard part is the boss of the area. The grunts are laughably underleveled and you've already battled the other admins before so you know what to expect from them. The guy at the end however... yeah... I've personally found him to be a huge difficulty spike compared to even the last couple gyms. It was nuts.
*sees the random dungeons*
well now i wonder if pokemon mystery dungeon showed up on the gba list. given that this is all of the games dungeons
This man would never last playing Pokemon Mystery Dungeon
It's a Roguelike, does he even play those?
I once tried skipping the nasty dungeon, annnd my team was too weak to beat the game. I had to grind like hell.
I have the final fantasy legend 2, its very hard i get lost lol and so much encounters. I love the quick battles though
number 8 looks distiguishly like pokemon mystery dungeon. i guess you would not like this game either because all dungeons in this game are random too. funnily enough the first 2 games of the spin-off series are quite loved, so i guess maybe it was better executed there than in lufia. or maybe the thing itself is just not your cup of tea.
The biggest problem with Lufia's random dungeons is that most of the treasures you find aren't worth exploring to find, yet you do it anyway for the few chests that may contain worthwhile contents like new special attacks, on top of the fact that you have to cut every single bush and suspicious spot on the walls to find hidden chests and pathways that are in plain sight in PMD. Furthermore, turn-based battles (nothing against those, since turn-based RPGs are my favorite) add to the tedium, amplified by the fact that, also unlike Mystery Dungeon, pretty much all the dungeons look exactly the same, with only a handful of different palette sets used for the numerous locations (i.e. every single cave will look identical without any distinguishing features). Lastly, the music is droning, and if not at first it can quickly become so.
Alas, I believe the biggest crime committed by Lufia: The Legend Returns is that it's a Gameboy Color game. As a whole, it tries way too hard to do way too much with its dungeons, battle system, etcetera, yet feels constantly held back by hardware limitations in that most of what it does never seems to fully achieve the potential it could have. Unlike most handheld games that tend to keep things simple, and complement the console they're on, Lufia felt much more like it belonged on a home console, but then was told no so had to make do with what it had.
Your a great reviewer. I like your reviews. But you only need to use "instead" once per sentence.
Cant agree with the Pokemon entries. You should have a pikachu in Mt.Moon that 1 hits the stupid Zubats
I caught in Pokémon Gold a Shiny Zubat ;)
10:50 ME, GRIMLOCK, KING!
I was looking for a comment like this
【ＬＩＦＥ ＬＥＥＣＨ】
Points for the motherfucking TALON THEME
Mount moon was not that bad. Other dungeons were worse than that.
That Druid sprite is cheesy and funny.
It kinda looks like Ripto from Spyro: Ripto's Rage.
I get a feeling you hate roguelikes.
Hahaha yeah there’s a reason why zubat is my least favorite Pokémon
Mt moon in FireRed and LeafGreen
born 1983 it was crazy time back in the day's
You mean 2 words zoo bats lol I know its zubat but still 2 words
HEHEHE THIS GAMES CLASSIC BUT REALLY GREAT FOR US AND PERFECT BECAUSE I LOVE THE ADVENTURE AND KILL MONSTERS
Life Leech. Man.
I know i type this before , but i type it again.
You're a worst dungeon.
Pff-lol.
Not even close.
-A Pokémon player
i feel mt moons houldnt be no this purely because victory road exist but understandable with your reason