I’m a proud owner of an frs and this is the result I was expecting. A close or semi close battle. And yes, I love our cars but I also respect the hell out of the Miata. Cheers 🤟🏽
Having owned a 2013 BRZ Limited and a 2016 Mazda MX-5 Grand Sport with Club package options I can tell you this about these cars: The BRZ won my heart since day 1. I loved it, I would constantly find myself staring out the window at it. It was a simple car to work on. It got a lot of attention around town, people asking 'wow what kind of car is that?' and it felt like a complete car. It had its issues but at the end of the day it was incredibly liveable, i could fit more items in my BRZ than my father's '14 Toyota Corolla. The Miata is incredibly fun and came with so many goodies from the get-go, but when I drive it it always feels like it's missing something. It doesn't get nearly as much positive attention as the BRZ does. Its faster than the BRZ, gets way better gas mileage around town and the freeway in fact far above the EPA rating, and the insurance is a ton cheaper on the car. But all those pros just doesn't outweigh its hard to do anything with the car, so many bad things people have to say about it, and it always just feeling like it's missing something you can't quite put your finger on. For a dedicated track car/autocross car I'd choose the MX-5. For a mutli-functional car as a weekday commuter and a weekend autocross/track warrior and show car I'd take the BRZ all day any day.
@@spinosauro666 , the demographic is different. The average MX driver is a 40+ year old, careful driver, probably won't speed so much, gets into less accidents, bought a soft top sports car to take out at the weekend and cruise around in. The GT86/BRZ on the other hand is more likely to be driven by 25+ drivers. That age group statistically are more likely to speed, more likely to crash, etc. This car is bought by people who want a fast entry level sports car at an affordable price. So when insuring an MX, even if you're in your 20's, you benefit from the average statistics of the MX driver. AKA insurance companies think you'll be like every other 40 year old MX driver, nice and careful. Meanwhile as a BRZ owner, you get compared to other BRZ owners that perhaps, aren't as careful. A million other factors but that's usually one of the larger factors in calculating your premiums. I'm sure others could come up with other factors I've not thought of.
So 200 kg less weight is more important that 40 hp more at the top end from an engine with the same displacement and torque. Perhaps anyone, who complain, that the MX5 is "underpowered", can shut up now.
+fundiver198 I've driven both around a track an I feel I know exactly what it is, and its not the power or the weight believe it or not, it's the gearing. The Mx-5 has suuuper short gears, aimed to give it more acceleration with less. The 86 has long fuel-economy feeling gears, it doesn't have the sweet spots that the mx-5 has. Not to mention say, a turn you can take in second gear in the 86, you can take in third in the mx-5, and STILL have the same if not better exit speed.
I own both cars. This is an unfair test. I replaced the slippery drifting Prius GT86 factory tires with Pirelli P Zeros (225, R18, 40) and 18" rims. No question which ones has the most grip. However, I like the MX-5 despite slower cornering and less grip, because it is a convertible. The MX-5 is more limited in terms of size and unsprung tire/rim weight you can add.
@@ichosethishandleI think for the street, the gt86 with some good quality tyres is going to be your best bet. Just carry your speed through corners without even needing to brake most of the time.. the tyres just exemplify its outstanding handling characteristic.
+xyzphyl Baby NSX is already in production, the S660. Taking into account that the current S2k is already faster than the 86, it probably wont be much of a competition if Honda decides to make a new one .
There are rumors of a 1000cc variant coming to Europe and probably the US in near future. It turned out to be pretty popular car(already sold out in Japan) so it wouldn't be surprising if Honda decided to export it.
As to the guys mentioning the S2000: hear bloody hear. Sadly the days of hand made, jewel like screaming VTecs are long gone. The cheap option of turbocharging is too hard to resist. It churns out the power and makes a car easier to get through emissions (without fiddling lol). Hence the new Civic: loads of grunt but zero character in engine dept.
No grip? Try some decent tires. It's ridiculous how often tires are ignored in these silly comparisons. Tires can easily make a 2 or 3 second difference in a hot lap, and the ones on the Toyota are designed for mpg, not grip. I have owned the FRS and NC Miata, and tracked both. The FRS is far better on track, requires fewer mods for track duty, and is way better to live with day to day.
@@io504 No, but they should mention a obvious advantage. Omitting relevant info, through ignorance or laziness, negates the result and entire point of a hot lap comparison, is not "journalism".
Both of these cars were designed to be fun to drive- the focus was not on lap times around a track. They are fun affordable road cars. I will soon be upgrading from my NC to the 2 liter ND sport Nav. There's another good video like this from the Motor Trend Channel, which takes them both around Laguna Seca. These vids are fun to watch, but we all know that track day enthusiasts will modify the cars to make them more track focused.
track battles on different tires are meaningless. the gt86 is running prius tire ND mx5 runs on re050 summers. tire could easily make up 0.5 sec difference.
@@VagTechKarl It's unfortunate you don't respect the very intentional engineering that went into the 86. The stock 86 is the faster car on the track, simply by equipping it with the equivalent tire to the MX-5, and is a better car on the street for those who don't always track their car(90% or more of buyers). It's a car for real life, with a platform for more than your dreams. Both are some of the very best cars any self-respecting driving enthusiast can buy today.
I'd like to see this again with the 86 on sport tires. I realize that is not how they come stock (not sure why), but I'd be willing to bet the time gets made up on different tires
Having driven the 2016 Miata after owning a 2013 Scion Fr-s and currently a 99 miata, the gt86/fr-s is a funner car to drive than the 2016 Miata. I was expecting way too much from this car and it just fell short when I finally test drove it. On paper, it should be the best Miata yet but somehow it just lacks that raw feeling the older Miata's had. I know a car company can make a car still feel raw and connected, even with all the modern day nannies because the Fr-s is exactly that car! So there's no reason the new Miata couldn't surpass the Fr-s in the "fun" category. Especially considering how much lighter it is.
what would make your channel REALLY COOL is if you have two different video angles of the same run. Video 1 would should just what's in front of you so that we could judge your driving. Video 2 would be the fancy outside views of the run.
In the Stock GT86 VS Fensport GT86R he did a 1:15,7 lap instead of 15,9. Compared to the MX5's 1:15,4 I wouldn't call that a 'significant' difference considering a GT86 comes with prius tires compared to what, bridgestone potenza's on the MX5? Additionally, I see a GT86 as "much more car for your money" compared to the Mazda. In terms of looks it is as well a no-brainer, come on. Not saying I don't like the Mazda but for me, the choice is obvious; GT86!
the reason why mazda sets it up like that (yes its on purpose) is because you can get away with more aggressive inputs when the vehicle has more roll...if the vehicles stays too flat, it will respond aggressively to aggressive inputs, making it twitchy and difficult to drive...i've driven both of them and one thing i can tell you for sure: is that you can barely feel the roll on the mx5 while driving...inside the car you barely feel it..
body roll has a huge amount on handling what are you saying, if u have a car that is rolling all over the place it is terrible in corners that involve quick weight transfers, but body roll can also increase mechanical grip. Clearly you have no idea what your saying
DANI3L 13 I can not count the number if videos I have seen where the GT86 was loosing time just for the tires. I mean - if one takes a car to a track - why not give it tires that suit the task?
Any valid comparison of cars' true inherent performance requires using the same tires. If they didn't do that, then it's largely a comparison of tires because tire choice can affect performance as much as, or more than, chassis and drivetrain, within reason.
The Miata is a faster car since it has a lighter and more balanced chassis. Anything you do to the 86/BRZ/FRS....if done the same on the Miata...would result in the miata being faster. The main concern people have with the Miata is the looks. Get a different body kit and wrap...and you're set....now the Miata looks and drives faster than the Toyota 86. If you don't like it being a convertible, change the body kit until its no longer a convertible. But either way, the unibody chassis of the Miata is capable of being faster than the chasis of the 86, which is faster than the chasis of the 350z.
If you just care about speed at the lowest cost....order a custom chassis from SLC hypercars. You'll literally need a team of engineers to set it up but you can get same performance as a modern day Les Mans car...for only about $150k...you can't get any faster than that...for street use at least. They own the record for fastest 0~200km~0km. Oh....and yes....apparently people will follow you for miles to see where you live and ask questions to your neighbors on what you do as a job...
While I love this comparison, I have absolutely no tolerance for considering times on cars with dissimilar tires. Do the test with similar rubber on both cars, OEM sizes. Otherwise this is just a test on which has more track focused tires.
+Aaron Blankenship If you really want to equalize the tires, you have to size them to get the same lb per mm tire width at each end of the car. Stock tire sizes tend to either be too small or favor understeer. Same size tire on both favors the much lighter MX5.
+future62 in my opinion the intention is not to really equalize the tires to the last detail. Lets stay on stock dimensions for each car, but same compound (make&model). I agree this would be logical as GT86 is famous for having less grippy tires.
+Aaron Blankenship They're both stock cars. The manufacturer chose a certain tire for the car, then that's the one that it gets tested with. I see no point trying to "equalize" them artificially.
wizzgti I am a stickler for detail so maybe it's just me. But the Camaro edges the Mustang dynamically because of its significantly wider front tires in most trims. I don't know what the difference is here, but if the Miata has tires even close to the GT86, even with the same compound it will trounce it on corner speed/grip. I suppose same compound would be a fair compromise though.
+mugdays but the tires get changed inevitably, so after some time in reality on the road there will be different setups and different results. So why not test it? And to get the sense of what to expect and to compare the cars on the long run, not just after they come from the factory (but still without any modifications!) test on same tires is the proper solution.
A tail happy controllable car is allways fun. Thats what GT86 is. If you dont like, just buy a "normal" front wheel car. This is a car for people who like to drive and play with the car. But you can have it and drive it normaly too. Go to a track with one and see the fun you can have ;)
+GUILHERME LOURENÇO Agreed. I have one of these and I personally am not much of a drifter so I got the Pilot Super Sports. Grips very nicely but still lets you break loose if you want to :)
+scanspeak00 It may not be the best looker right now, but I think the GT86 will age very well. It is too easy for manufacturers to try and push the boundaries of car fashion, only to look back 10yrs later and say "Omg, we did that?" The Supra wasn't very exciting when it came out (looks-wise) but since it has matured perfectly.
you're missing the point of the GT86, power is irrelevant ...and it has economy tyres... it's meant to have fun, you'd have to be a fool to think otherwise.
@@Rikverse241:15.4 and 1:15.9 hardly a difference, with the gt86 on the same tyres you will probably expect a significant drop in time, which will have the 86 as the victor, even though they are essentially the same.
alexander vick it’s something like 7lbs of weight loss is 1hp I think? (Not too sure BUT) that really does make a difference even a stock frs can keep up with a 350 z vq because of the weight difference
+Kufre Udobong The GT86 is more powerful, but far less grippy. They're both fun, though, but I'd take the lighter, more refined, prettier and more modern (that shows in the interior) Mazda, even if it means sacrificing drifting shenenigans. But then again, I've become a bit of a Mazdaphile over the past few years.
Next time slap the same tires on both and redo this race. GT86 seems to suffer from the "prius tires" a lot, even though it makes it fun to drive i guess.
Stock tires, pads...cars are stock? Curious what happens with both cars lowered an inch, stiffer suspension on the Miata (look at that body roll!) and equal pair of tires (lose the Prius tires on the 86). I feel like that would even them out, at least with their short comings.
I wonder what the comparison would be between these cars and the previous generation of affordable Japanese cars eg Civic type r, RX-8, Celica, even an older MX-5, as I wonder if the new stuff is slower around this track!
+appelpower1 my uncle had one when i was younger. he now his navy blue carrera S Cabrio, but he says that his S2000 is his favorite car ever still so far...
girlncarorcarngirl I'd have an S2000 over a Porsche Carrera S any day. That said, if I got them for free, I'd sell the Porsche (if it were more valuable than the Honda, so no 250.000 km, run down Porsche 996), I'd sell the Porsche and then buy an S2000, but still have lots of leftover money.
if you keeping them stock then it matters if one is faster than the other ...from factory other than that the mazda wins because i don't need a drift car when it rains
You'd be a fool to buy a car because of it's lap time... It's all about what it's like to live with, and how it makes you feel! Yet every video on auto express is all 'let's see which is fastest around the track'
This is a pointless test. Run both cars on same (proper) stock size tires and try again. What you demonstated in the video is that the TIRES of the MX5 is faster on a track. Keep in mind that Toyota ( well, Subaru) equiped the 86 with the Primacy tires because they are excellent on road (low noise, good economy, progressive loss of grip).
This is a pointless comment. The whole point is that they ARE different, and that the tires on the 86 are worse. People don't buy new cars to put different tires on. Since there is a lot of body roll on the MX-5, should I complain that if in this theoretical test you are talking about and the MX-5 loses, that it's because the springs aren't stiff enough and we should test with the same springs?
Most people who buy new cars don't take them to the track in the first place. And if they are, the first thing they are going to do is buy proper tires! The 86 even hat as a design criterium that 4 track tires fit in the trunk with the back seat folded over. The Primacy tires that come standard on the 86 are there for good fuel economy and low road noise. Nobody at Toyota/Subaru intended anyone to track an 86 with the stock tires. You bring up a good point with the soft springs of the MX-5. This car was not designed to be tracked. It's designed to enjoy a cruise with the top down a country road on a summer day. Put on proper grippy tires and the suspension is most likely way too soft. That's not the case with the 86. That's why the test is pointless because if comparing apples and bananas and then saying bananas are better because they are easier to peel.
Now try the 2019 mx....With 25ish added HP since the 2016 and higher RPM added past this ND generation ....I don't think Toyota has added HP tolatest model? MX5 should REALLY kick ass on the 86 nowadays
Shows how good the mx5 is and has always been, even with 40bhp less it shows its more than capable! The GT86 needs more of everything if you ask me, better tyres, bit more power but most importantly at least 50% more torque!
Forced induction. A fiesta ST for example has an engine with similar power (on overboost) 50% more torque and is much more economical. 200bhp is enough providing you dont have to wait all day to get to the power band and would make it much more fun punching it out the corners on those skinny tyres.
Gearing also helps. Torque curve also matters. IMO the Miata is a better package out of the box, designed to also be good enough for everyday use - softer suspension. The gt86 is designed more to be fun on the track out of the box, and then modified. Some people get the gt86 just because they want a sports coupe, and never even drive fast. Somehow I think they get annoyed after a while because it isn't as luxurious as expected. I had a Prelude once, and sometimes the bumping and jiggliness got annoying day after day. But when you wanted to have fun, it was fun! For people who want a bit more comfort, the Miata may be a better choice. Could also be more zippy around town because it's lighter and smaller. Case in point - Hyundai Excel is fun and zippy around town despite not being a sports car. Not quite as good when you want to rev it up though.
Reality is that people will but more toyota gts and there will be more parts availability and support for it. :) Mx5 is just trying to get back that support it had for the first gen model.
while i wanted the miata to win and expected it to. The .5 seconds for the much higher pricetag on the miata if you want the lsd.The frs/brz/gt86 in my opinion wins this round
It's entertaining to see him resist the temptation to get the tail out while doing the hot lap.
Welcome back Steve. Great review. Its refreshing to see a professional journalist back with auto express.
I’m a proud owner of an frs and this is the result I was expecting. A close or semi close battle. And yes, I love our cars but I also respect the hell out of the Miata. Cheers 🤟🏽
I love Japanese cars.
+Neo Hideo u love cheap cars?
+Neo Hideo that's what i was going to say
+Neo Hideo including the Prius?
I think this is why we all came here
What's wrong with the Prius? It does what it was meant to do just as well as these 2 cars!
Having owned a 2013 BRZ Limited and a 2016 Mazda MX-5 Grand Sport with Club package options I can tell you this about these cars:
The BRZ won my heart since day 1. I loved it, I would constantly find myself staring out the window at it. It was a simple car to work on. It got a lot of attention around town, people asking 'wow what kind of car is that?' and it felt like a complete car. It had its issues but at the end of the day it was incredibly liveable, i could fit more items in my BRZ than my father's '14 Toyota Corolla.
The Miata is incredibly fun and came with so many goodies from the get-go, but when I drive it it always feels like it's missing something. It doesn't get nearly as much positive attention as the BRZ does. Its faster than the BRZ, gets way better gas mileage around town and the freeway in fact far above the EPA rating, and the insurance is a ton cheaper on the car. But all those pros just doesn't outweigh its hard to do anything with the car, so many bad things people have to say about it, and it always just feeling like it's missing something you can't quite put your finger on.
For a dedicated track car/autocross car I'd choose the MX-5. For a mutli-functional car as a weekday commuter and a weekend autocross/track warrior and show car I'd take the BRZ all day any day.
Why the insurance is cheaper on the mx?
@@spinosauro666 , the demographic is different. The average MX driver is a 40+ year old, careful driver, probably won't speed so much, gets into less accidents, bought a soft top sports car to take out at the weekend and cruise around in. The GT86/BRZ on the other hand is more likely to be driven by 25+ drivers. That age group statistically are more likely to speed, more likely to crash, etc. This car is bought by people who want a fast entry level sports car at an affordable price. So when insuring an MX, even if you're in your 20's, you benefit from the average statistics of the MX driver. AKA insurance companies think you'll be like every other 40 year old MX driver, nice and careful. Meanwhile as a BRZ owner, you get compared to other BRZ owners that perhaps, aren't as careful. A million other factors but that's usually one of the larger factors in calculating your premiums. I'm sure others could come up with other factors I've not thought of.
I think the RF Miata is a better overall car, but the BRZ is just another option of the same car really. What I don't like is the boxer engine
So 200 kg less weight is more important that 40 hp more at the top end from an engine with the same displacement and torque. Perhaps anyone, who complain, that the MX5 is "underpowered", can shut up now.
+fundiver198 I've driven both around a track an I feel I know exactly what it is, and its not the power or the weight believe it or not, it's the gearing. The Mx-5 has suuuper short gears, aimed to give it more acceleration with less. The 86 has long fuel-economy feeling gears, it doesn't have the sweet spots that the mx-5 has. Not to mention say, a turn you can take in second gear in the 86, you can take in third in the mx-5, and STILL have the same if not better exit speed.
😨😖س ش☺
fundiver198 personally I like calculating the number of HP or torque per ton
The mx5 has the peak torque down lower. What I'd like to see is the exact same car with 200kg added to see what effect it has. Added on the foot wells
And then you'd have to add 40hp the Miata to make it even... nonsense.
I like mazda so for me it is an easy choice. Love the design of mazda cars, just wonderful
5:50 Wow, the mazda's inside wheels are nearly off the ground! :)
I own both cars. This is an unfair test. I replaced the slippery drifting Prius GT86 factory tires with Pirelli P Zeros (225, R18, 40) and 18" rims. No question which ones has the most grip. However, I like the MX-5 despite slower cornering and less grip, because it is a convertible. The MX-5 is more limited in terms of size and unsprung tire/rim weight you can add.
Which one feels better to drive on normal A and B roads? That's what my decision is going to come down to. Cheers
@@ichosethishandleI think for the street, the gt86 with some good quality tyres is going to be your best bet. Just carry your speed through corners without even needing to brake most of the time.. the tyres just exemplify its outstanding handling characteristic.
@@Lycanthroperage95 thanks mate
@@ichosethishandle Hard to comment, since I owned the original GT86. Many improvements have been made since 2013. My advise is test drive them both.
@@SilverAudiophile thank you
Honda needs to bring back the S2000 again, and not fuck it up
+ewt415 yup, plus a baby NSX so the GT86 has a competitor too :)
+xyzphyl Baby NSX is already in production, the S660. Taking into account that the current S2k is already faster than the 86, it probably wont be much of a competition if Honda decides to make a new one .
+Daniel Marinov Already in production but it will probably never be sold in the US.
There are rumors of a 1000cc variant coming to Europe and probably the US in near future. It turned out to be pretty popular car(already sold out in Japan) so it wouldn't be surprising if Honda decided to export it.
As to the guys mentioning the S2000: hear bloody hear. Sadly the days of hand made, jewel like screaming VTecs are long gone. The cheap option of turbocharging is too hard to resist. It churns out the power and makes a car easier to get through emissions (without fiddling lol). Hence the new Civic: loads of grunt but zero character in engine dept.
No grip? Try some decent tires. It's ridiculous how often tires are ignored in these silly comparisons. Tires can easily make a 2 or 3 second difference in a hot lap, and the ones on the Toyota are designed for mpg, not grip. I have owned the FRS and NC Miata, and tracked both. The FRS is far better on track, requires fewer mods for track duty, and is way better to live with day to day.
Except to be fair you would have to give MX better tires also ....so what would begained??...oh yeah huh.....duhhh
the mx5 already had better grip to begin with, in which case if both have the same tyres, the gt86 still wins, its also more practical.
I agree it's not a fair comparison for the timed lap. Can't really expect motor journalists to change the tyres every time they lap a car though
@@io504 No, but they should mention a obvious advantage. Omitting relevant info, through ignorance or laziness, negates the result and entire point of a hot lap comparison, is not "journalism".
been so long since Auto Express uploaded a decent video, keep it up!
Both of these cars were designed to be fun to drive- the focus was not on lap times around a track. They are fun affordable road cars. I will soon be upgrading from my NC to the 2 liter ND sport Nav. There's another good video like this from the Motor Trend Channel, which takes them both around Laguna Seca. These vids are fun to watch, but we all know that track day enthusiasts will modify the cars to make them more track focused.
track battles on different tires are meaningless. the gt86 is running prius tire ND mx5 runs on re050 summers. tire could easily make up 0.5 sec difference.
@@VagTechKarl It's unfortunate you don't respect the very intentional engineering that went into the 86. The stock 86 is the faster car on the track, simply by equipping it with the equivalent tire to the MX-5, and is a better car on the street for those who don't always track their car(90% or more of buyers). It's a car for real life, with a platform for more than your dreams.
Both are some of the very best cars any self-respecting driving enthusiast can buy today.
I'd like to see this again with the 86 on sport tires. I realize that is not how they come stock (not sure why), but I'd be willing to bet the time gets made up on different tires
Then I'd have to insist on adding sports tyres to the MX5, which would also give it the edge again.
Having driven the 2016 Miata after owning a 2013 Scion Fr-s and currently a 99 miata, the gt86/fr-s is a funner car to drive than the 2016 Miata. I was expecting way too much from this car and it just fell short when I finally test drove it. On paper, it should be the best Miata yet but somehow it just lacks that raw feeling the older Miata's had.
I know a car company can make a car still feel raw and connected, even with all the modern day nannies because the Fr-s is exactly that car! So there's no reason the new Miata couldn't surpass the Fr-s in the "fun" category. Especially considering how much lighter it is.
You should test drive the 2019+ Mazda MX-5 ND with the updated 181hp 7500rpm engine.
what would make your channel REALLY COOL is if you have two different video angles of the same run. Video 1 would should just what's in front of you so that we could judge your driving. Video 2 would be the fancy outside views of the run.
In the Stock GT86 VS Fensport GT86R he did a 1:15,7 lap instead of 15,9. Compared to the MX5's 1:15,4 I wouldn't call that a 'significant' difference considering a GT86 comes with prius tires compared to what, bridgestone potenza's on the MX5? Additionally, I see a GT86 as "much more car for your money" compared to the Mazda. In terms of looks it is as well a no-brainer, come on. Not saying I don't like the Mazda but for me, the choice is obvious; GT86!
Steve's word on these things always rules: thanks for a great review.
Actually, if you think about it, the gt-86 is faster around the track. The only problem here is every turn you drifted which made you loose time.
i wish toyota can race again in all racing formats. would like to see them back in f1 again.
Anton Von Gruning check out the brz jgtc car
Great review!
dat mx5 body roll tho
+997speedy
True. It's proof that body roll actually has no effect on grip or handling.
- So long as the car stays predicatable.
the reason why mazda sets it up like that (yes its on purpose) is because you can get away with more aggressive inputs when the vehicle has more roll...if the vehicles stays too flat, it will respond aggressively to aggressive inputs, making it twitchy and difficult to drive...i've driven both of them and one thing i can tell you for sure: is that you can barely feel the roll on the mx5 while driving...inside the car you barely feel it..
body roll has a huge amount on handling what are you saying, if u have a car that is rolling all over the place it is terrible in corners that involve quick weight transfers, but body roll can also increase mechanical grip. Clearly you have no idea what your saying
talking to me?
Pe Peroni no that kid who said that body roll has no effect on handling
God I love that MX-5
I have an 86. It is so much fun.
The GT86 would have won if it had better tires
DANI3L 13 I can not count the number if videos I have seen where the GT86 was loosing time just for the tires. I mean - if one takes a car to a track - why not give it tires that suit the task?
Any valid comparison of cars' true inherent performance requires using the same tires. If they didn't do that, then it's largely a comparison of tires because tire choice can affect performance as much as, or more than, chassis and drivetrain, within reason.
The Miata is a faster car since it has a lighter and more balanced chassis. Anything you do to the 86/BRZ/FRS....if done the same on the Miata...would result in the miata being faster.
The main concern people have with the Miata is the looks. Get a different body kit and wrap...and you're set....now the Miata looks and drives faster than the Toyota 86. If you don't like it being a convertible, change the body kit until its no longer a convertible. But either way, the unibody chassis of the Miata is capable of being faster than the chasis of the 86, which is faster than the chasis of the 350z.
If you just care about speed at the lowest cost....order a custom chassis from SLC hypercars. You'll literally need a team of engineers to set it up but you can get same performance as a modern day Les Mans car...for only about $150k...you can't get any faster than that...for street use at least. They own the record for fastest 0~200km~0km. Oh....and yes....apparently people will follow you for miles to see where you live and ask questions to your neighbors on what you do as a job...
MX-5 with stiffer springs, would do even better on the track !
Why does everyone do these comparisons on the stock tires and not the same tire compound? Wouldnt that be better for a perfect comparison?
While I love this comparison, I have absolutely no tolerance for considering times on cars with dissimilar tires.
Do the test with similar rubber on both cars, OEM sizes. Otherwise this is just a test on which has more track focused tires.
+Aaron Blankenship If you really want to equalize the tires, you have to size them to get the same lb per mm tire width at each end of the car. Stock tire sizes tend to either be too small or favor understeer. Same size tire on both favors the much lighter MX5.
+future62 in my opinion the intention is not to really equalize the tires to the last detail. Lets stay on stock dimensions for each car, but same compound (make&model). I agree this would be logical as GT86 is famous for having less grippy tires.
+Aaron Blankenship
They're both stock cars. The manufacturer chose a certain tire for the car, then that's the one that it gets tested with. I see no point trying to "equalize" them artificially.
wizzgti
I am a stickler for detail so maybe it's just me. But the Camaro edges the Mustang dynamically because of its significantly wider front tires in most trims. I don't know what the difference is here, but if the Miata has tires even close to the GT86, even with the same compound it will trounce it on corner speed/grip. I suppose same compound would be a fair compromise though.
+mugdays but the tires get changed inevitably, so after some time in reality on the road there will be different setups and different results. So why not test it? And to get the sense of what to expect and to compare the cars on the long run, not just after they come from the factory (but still without any modifications!) test on same tires is the proper solution.
i rather take the gt86. much more sexier! and Better much of a car.
I'd really like Steve Sutcliffe as Top Gear presenter, provided they would just let him drive and talk as he wants to.
Put better tires on the GT86...give it pilot super sports or something.
I don't get toyota's philosophy. what fun is there at sliding the tail at ALL times?
+Martijn Kösters you dont really get cars do you?
I think you didn't get to GRIPs with what I'm talking about.
A tail happy controllable car is allways fun.
Thats what GT86 is. If you dont like, just buy a "normal" front wheel car.
This is a car for people who like to drive and play with the car.
But you can have it and drive it normaly too.
Go to a track with one and see the fun you can have ;)
+GUILHERME LOURENÇO Agreed. I have one of these and I personally am not much of a drifter so I got the Pilot Super Sports. Grips very nicely but still lets you break loose if you want to :)
The GT86 desperately needs a styling update (interior and exterior). That for me is it's biggest turn off.
+scanspeak00 It may not be the best looker right now, but I think the GT86 will age very well. It is too easy for manufacturers to try and push the boundaries of car fashion, only to look back 10yrs later and say "Omg, we did that?" The Supra wasn't very exciting when it came out (looks-wise) but since it has matured perfectly.
you're missing the point of the GT86, power is irrelevant ...and it has economy tyres... it's meant to have fun, you'd have to be a fool to think otherwise.
It should still be able to keep up with or outrun a Miata. Can't wait to see the next generation of the 86/BRZ...
“Ahh, I don’t want that...ahh, I kinda do” - at last an honest man! 😂😂😂
I love Mazda especially the one that has those pop up lights
If you put same tires on GT 86 as the MX5 had, the race would not even be close.
Miata has so much body roll....
The Miata would be still faster than the GT86
@@Rikverse241:15.4 and 1:15.9 hardly a difference, with the gt86 on the same tyres you will probably expect a significant drop in time, which will have the 86 as the victor, even though they are essentially the same.
Why does auto express see the need to run ads in their UA-cam videos? Seems a bit cheap to me.
Steve Sutcliffe is aware that the MX-5 is actually less powerful now right. It just lost a few hundred pounds is all.
alexander vick it’s something like 7lbs of weight loss is 1hp I think? (Not too sure BUT) that really does make a difference even a stock frs can keep up with a 350 z vq because of the weight difference
I've not watched this video yet but it can't beat that GT86!
+Kufre Udobong You'd be surprised, actually.
Lolli kips lol, I am! I really am
+Kufre Udobong The GT86 is more powerful, but far less grippy. They're both fun, though, but I'd take the lighter, more refined, prettier and more modern (that shows in the interior) Mazda, even if it means sacrificing drifting shenenigans. But then again, I've become a bit of a Mazdaphile over the past few years.
2:59 bye Apex!
Next time slap the same tires on both and redo this race. GT86 seems to suffer from the "prius tires" a lot, even though it makes it fun to drive i guess.
Stock tires, pads...cars are stock? Curious what happens with both cars lowered an inch, stiffer suspension on the Miata (look at that body roll!) and equal pair of tires (lose the Prius tires on the 86). I feel like that would even them out, at least with their short comings.
4:41 so close...
Stacy Mitchell real close and this driver is really decent
Two words, body roll... That mazda looks like a cayac going into corners.
I wonder what the comparison would be between these cars and the previous generation of affordable Japanese cars eg Civic type r, RX-8, Celica, even an older MX-5, as I wonder if the new stuff is slower around this track!
it would be cool if the top 3 us magazines went to Europe/England for a week and the top 3 english Magazines come to America to test for a week
Has Steve tested the new GT4? would love to see his review on that..
Nice driving!
I think I'll take the extra .5 milliseconds to save my dignity/man card.
My college friends can't believe my BRZ's engine is only a flat 4.
honda s2000 ... :)
+FreestylerAlbert It's a secondhand, though. Not a good comparison. But yeah, the S2000 is a masterpiece.
+appelpower1 my uncle had one when i was younger. he now his navy blue carrera S Cabrio, but he says that his S2000 is his favorite car ever still so far...
girlncarorcarngirl I'd have an S2000 over a Porsche Carrera S any day. That said, if I got them for free, I'd sell the Porsche (if it were more valuable than the Honda, so no 250.000 km, run down Porsche 996), I'd sell the Porsche and then buy an S2000, but still have lots of leftover money.
+FreestylerAlbert Honda should built a new S2000 that would be nice! With a turbo-charged 2.0 and over 250 hp.
Grabonator86 Not a turbocharged one. The original engine is so good because it revs to 9000 rpm. That naturally aspirated character must be kept.
Why isn't it the Subaru BRZ in the UK?
if you keeping them stock then it matters if one is faster than the other ...from factory other than that the mazda wins because i don't need a drift car when it rains
but look how much the Toyota stable
while the Mazda almost completely roll
for me the Toyota please
13 WRX all the way. But if I had to choose between these two I'd take the Miata
The Toyota runs on prius tires, with proper tires the car would have more grip, less overseer and it would beat the mx5
He could get another .2 seconds out of the 86 if he would not let the tail hang out. Until Toyota upgrades the tires the MX5 will remain faster.
Which is more fun to drive?
You'd be a fool to buy a car because of it's lap time... It's all about what it's like to live with, and how it makes you feel! Yet every video on auto express is all 'let's see which is fastest around the track'
This is a pointless test. Run both cars on same (proper) stock size tires and try again. What you demonstated in the video is that the TIRES of the MX5 is faster on a track. Keep in mind that Toyota ( well, Subaru) equiped the 86 with the Primacy tires because they are excellent on road (low noise, good economy, progressive loss of grip).
This is a pointless comment. The whole point is that they ARE different, and that the tires on the 86 are worse. People don't buy new cars to put different tires on. Since there is a lot of body roll on the MX-5, should I complain that if in this theoretical test you are talking about and the MX-5 loses, that it's because the springs aren't stiff enough and we should test with the same springs?
Most people who buy new cars don't take them to the track in the first place. And if they are, the first thing they are going to do is buy proper tires! The 86 even hat as a design criterium that 4 track tires fit in the trunk with the back seat folded over. The Primacy tires that come standard on the 86 are there for good fuel economy and low road noise. Nobody at Toyota/Subaru intended anyone to track an 86 with the stock tires.
You bring up a good point with the soft springs of the MX-5. This car was not designed to be tracked. It's designed to enjoy a cruise with the top down a country road on a summer day. Put on proper grippy tires and the suspension is most likely way too soft. That's not the case with the 86. That's why the test is pointless because if comparing apples and bananas and then saying bananas are better because they are easier to peel.
5:12, 0.5s is a clear difference?!
Johnny_McNeil 0.4 is not a clear difference very competitive in fact
Anyone know what test track is this ? Appreciate for those who knew it.
Now try the 2019 mx....With 25ish added HP since the 2016 and higher RPM added past this ND generation ....I don't think Toyota has added HP tolatest model? MX5 should REALLY kick ass on the 86 nowadays
Shows how good the mx5 is and has always been, even with 40bhp less it shows its more than capable! The GT86 needs more of everything if you ask me, better tyres, bit more power but most importantly at least 50% more torque!
the mx 5 is 200 kg less 200 KG
Forced induction. A fiesta ST for example has an engine with similar power (on overboost) 50% more torque and is much more economical. 200bhp is enough providing you dont have to wait all day to get to the power band and would make it much more fun punching it out the corners on those skinny tyres.
Gearing also helps. Torque curve also matters. IMO the Miata is a better package out of the box, designed to also be good enough for everyday use - softer suspension. The gt86 is designed more to be fun on the track out of the box, and then modified. Some people get the gt86 just because they want a sports coupe, and never even drive fast. Somehow I think they get annoyed after a while because it isn't as luxurious as expected. I had a Prelude once, and sometimes the bumping and jiggliness got annoying day after day. But when you wanted to have fun, it was fun! For people who want a bit more comfort, the Miata may be a better choice. Could also be more zippy around town because it's lighter and smaller. Case in point - Hyundai Excel is fun and zippy around town despite not being a sports car. Not quite as good when you want to rev it up though.
Reality is that people will but more toyota gts and there will be more parts availability and support for it. :) Mx5 is just trying to get back that support it had for the first gen model.
This guy, the skinny nerdy guy from Carfection and Chris Harris are the best.
Come on Steve. Put the same tyres on both cars before running a test like this.......Dvvvvvv
BOTH ARE GREAT
The Toyota GT86 is absolutely identical in the 0-100 km/h as a BMW e92 Coupe 320d... yes, it's not impressive, but it's good enough.
New shirt Steve?
what track is this? llandow?
The steering wheel in that 86 is hideous
gt86 wins for me
Dont lie to yourself
Gt86 wins hands down on the looks and let's face it most of us will never be able to drive like that.
I love the new MX-5 but it Looks strange from behind. Looks a bit to "bitchy" to me. The GT86 Looks more like a mans-car.
Agreed
Miata
Is
Always
The
Answer
Toyota GT86
Mx5 know the sauce he is a old boy the gt86 is newborn
Well Toyota and Subaru. Time to up your game and make your car sexier now. Oh and lighter weight or more powerful. Please make a convertible version.
this guy is living the dream i envy much
what tyres ???
The difference is in the tires, this was silly.
Oh com'on you can't just take the standard cheap standard Prius tyres of the GT86 to the track an complain about grip.
he who is last is sideways and smiling
I still prefer the GT86
he didn't laugh once while driving mx5 either
The Stig could take 5 seconds off those times!
while i wanted the miata to win and expected it to. The .5 seconds for the much higher pricetag on the miata if you want the lsd.The frs/brz/gt86 in my opinion wins this round
You probably don't buy convertibles for track speed anyway as they have more body shell flex. Miata is not designed to be a race car.
@@RennieAsh Type 'MX-5 Cup car' and come back to me.
Joe Naka after all that it still probably has more body flex than a full shell.
@@RennieAsh you haven't even driven one to make such an uninformed opinion like that
Joe Naka ooh tuff. Not the point. It may be stiffer than your average car, but if it had a roof it could be even stiffer!
Very small price to pay for having a back seat... even if it's a back seat only fit for a 5-year-old and a dog, LOL
I still go with the 86.
Id still take the GT86 over the MX5 purely for its looks and aftermarket products.
Tires...
That MX-5 body roll is ridiculous.
mx5 have a better weight than 86
Go for eightysix
2 superb cars
Devil behind the wheel👍🔥
sorry MIata the GT86 and the S2k are better cars..
I thought he was with autocar