I’ll admit I haven’t finished the video but after owning V2/Phi for years; I agree with your previous reviews. Ok now that I finished your video I also agree with you opinions on the MR. What a shame for such a beautiful headphone Overhyped, overpriced and puny sound. They look good though and I’d take my HEK Stealth any day. For the people looking to purchase it new; don’t. Buy a used a pair or demo.
@@bobhanuman65 Don’t need to based on the minor differences. The V2/Phi reviews nailed the issues in my experience. Lachlan and other reviewers expressed the same lack of enough improvements for the Diana line. How about you? How long did you own a pair of Diana? Btw my set up was full JPS loom including their XI stack.
@@bobhanuman65 Tons of people that have tried abyss products don't like them. Just because you overpaid for an inferior product you so happen to like doesn't mean other's haven't heard them.
Glad you like my approach. I'll rarely hype anything and prefer to give a balanced review of any product I try. That way, you know that if I can something or rave about it, it's because I think it's truly deserving of it. 🙂
As an owner of the Arya Organics for the past 6 months or so, anything that wanted to replace them would have to be truly amazingly good. Personally I think they're the best sounding headphones under the 2.5K price point. Absolutely phenomenal value for money.
I do not hear the excess treble with the MR. It’s an enjoyable listen. Enough detail and energy but still smooth for long listening sessions. Suede pads tone down the resonance but I still find the leather pads enjoyable too. I really like it off the DNA Stellaris and Tube mini. The MJ3 and mojo2 are solid pairings as well. The HEKse has much more treble. Actually gave me ear pain after listening secessions. They sound good during the secession but afterwards I could feel that increased treble. This was off tubes too. I don’t have this issue with the MR, Utopia, Susvara, Tungsten, Caldera, etc. And Id take the MR over the Empy 2. Empy 2 has some treble peaks, much more than MR. If you’re on the fence, give them a try. Reviewers have preferences and most likely have a different chain than you. Don’t treat them as the gospel.
I agree that all reviewers are just one opinion and shouldn't be used as a sole decision making tool. We also all have different ear canal resonances and will therefore find different headphones more or less troubling in the treble. Overall, I thought the MR treble quality was excellent. There was just too much of it for me from a tonal accuracy point of view.
Will agree with Rhodey on the Empyrean 2 being trebly. Compared to Susvara, Utopia '20 & '22, Atrium, E3, it's very sibilant. I can't comment on the Diana MR though.
Great review again thank you Lachlan. When I first received my Diana MR I was very disappointed just as you described. But the tuning and sound changed when I used it with the combination of Woo Audio Tube Mini as dac and Queststyle CMA 15 amp. MR became really smooth with very little sibilance. Layering became richer and much wider soundstage. MR compares favorably against my DCA E3 and Hifiman HE1000 V3. As you noted we all have different ears so I really appreciate your honest review. Please keep up the good work as always!👍👍👍
Thanks for being able to receive this review as intended, Max! I'm so glad you found a chain that you enjoy them with and that sounds like a lovely setup that would suit the MRs really well thanks to the extra midrange weight and treble smoothness (perhaps even a hint of roll off) that it would provide. Happy listening!
Sadly, this is true of the whole hobby. The answer to a headphone with problematic tuning is that "it's chain dependent". What that really means is there's an issue with it's tuning that you have to find some way to fix (if it happens to not suit your personal preferences)
The only thing the HE1000SE did better than the MR for me was the extra, slightly more textured sub-bass, but the HE1000SE are a LOT brighter than the MR. I couldn't see myself listening to the HE1000SE for more than 30minutes because of that, whereas the MR could be a smooth, all-day long listen for me. I also don't think soundstage is everything. I listen mostly to studio recordings and the staging of the MR almost completely nails those recordings for me (if it weren't for the slightly excessive left-right distance that you mentioned). I'll worry about bigger staging when listening to concerts or orchestras or anything recorded in a big room, in which case I'm happy to remember no headphones can do it all perfect and I will reach out to something more appropriate for that type of recordings.
This has come up a bit and the treble from the HEKSE has some bite in a couple of the peaks it has. I.e. I agree that it has the more aggressive treble that could be troublesome for some people. Where the Diana MR is actually a brighter sounding headphone is that it has overall more energy in the treble compared to the mids and bass. That produces a brighter overall tonality despite the fact that the treble quality from the MR is excellent and not at all harsh.
Appreciate this. I had 1000se moved to diana mr and ended up moving back to he1000se. One is comfort as mentioned and the other was better sound of he1000se in staging and tonal balance with my gears as well. That was about a week ago when i returned diana mr...
@dmarcus1260 not really. I thought it wasn't as dynamic vs he1000se with schiit mj3. Sound stage was definitely smaller and resolution was bit down. Maybe diff gear might change nuances.
To be clear on the brightness question, because some others have questioned this from my description, I found the tonality of the MR tilted too much into the treble. This is different from the bite in the treble that the HEKSE so there may be some confusion caused by the different versions of "brightness" being discussed.
Thank you for another excellent review! I recently bought the Meze Empyrean II. I've had previous issues with headbands during long work sessions, AKG N90 & Sony XM4 could give me headaches that would last for days. But the comfort and sound of the Emyprean have been amazing! Excited for your review of the Empyrean II, Hope you could give some recommendations for DAC & AMP ~3k$ that would do them justice. I feel the iFi Audio Micro iDSD Signature gives them too much "attack"
I want to add my two cents into all this and tell you that personally I really appreciate your honest unbiased opinions on how you truly feel of a product words can't really describe how appreciative that I am for channels like yours since you guys are few and very very far between I was planning on getting the abyss but after you shared with me your thoughts on what you thought they were in comparison to say the Aria stealth I got to say I'm ordering me the Aria stealth and yes I know I'm spelling the headphones incorrectly voice to text is a nuisance
Thanks for commenting. I'm glad I could help. I'll always share the good and the bad of any product while trying to also respect the product and the care that will have gone into making it. I do think you've made the right choice with the Aryas. (And no problems with the voice to text spelling 😉)
Thanks for sharing. I wonder what you are hearing. The treble of the Diana MR seems more subdued compared to the Hifiman HE1000 SE according to the measurements. Only in the area above 14.000 Hz does it produce a higher output than the HE 1000 SE. I am not claiming that your are not hearing what you are hearing, I am just wondering. Greetings from Denmark
Yes, there are lots of different ways that we can interpret brightness so I understand the cause of the question. If you look at the two graphs of these headphones overlayed, the HEKSE also has higher bass and midrange at many frequencies so it's the overall balance of the frequency range that makes them more tonally accurate, despite having some excess bite in the treble. Our ears and brain perceive everything relatively so we have to consider the whole frequency response, not just the treble frequencies. Also, if you look at the MR mids and bass, it tapers of consistently down to 20Hz which is why the treble is over balanced (IMO). The treble quality is definitely better on the MR without question, but the overall tonal balance is superior on the HEKSE to my ears.
@@PassionforSound Thanks for clarifying, I have newer heard the Abyss Diana MR so I can obviously not give my view regarding which is subjectively better for me. I have however heard the Hifimann HE1000 SE, and I can’t say that was particularly impressed. Basically to me their soundstage felt like what a dumbbell weight looks like. A string of sound from left to right inside the head (where the handle is on the weight) and a giant blob of sound to the left and right just outside of the ears (where the weights are on the dumbbell. This for me somewhat incoherent soundstage, actually made it difficult to listen for frequency balance/timbre. A headphone with a for me coherent soundstage (but more or less inside the skull, which I can easily live with ) and a subjectively even and coherent sound is the Dan Clark Audio E3. After writing this, I will immediately check out if you have had the good fortune of listening to them. Sorry for derailing my comments away from the subject of the review the Diana MR. Greetings from Denmark
I'm yet to try the E3, but I hope to. As for the HEKSE - I'm not suggesting it's the best headphone around. In fact, that's part of the problem for me with the Diana MR. It should be competing with headphones that are better than the HEKSE, but it's not IMO. Thanks for watching and commenting! 🙂🙂
Too much treble also messes with timbre of acoustic instrments. I sometimes wonder what treble chasers would think of said instruments when played in front of them, it would likely sound very muffled in comparison.
I’ve always been awed by the look of Diana line, priced at (for me) Unobtainium dollars. Went to the Dallas Canjam and there they were, powered by that $40k tube amp. Put on a track I know and before 2 minutes were up I took them off, thinking “how boring, and not too comfy.” Then I thought “Self, you must be wrong. Look how pretty, and how costly.” So I thought I’d try them again but first, for kicks, I’ll plug in my Drop/DCA Aeon Closed. Wow. Wowee Wow. My humble headphones have a lot more to give me with upgraded electronics. Fast forward 4 months to this week. Just got in my new Geshelli J2 DAC and ZMF/JDS Homage amp. Only one Wow, not three. But I thank Canjam for pointing out my headphones were being underserved. The Focal Clear MG are benefitting as well.
I applaud you and wave , the 2 best and most honest of all reviewers . Never afraid to rock the boat and tell your truth . Bravo , and I do own he1000se and zmf verite close, my best 1-2 punch.. Great review and all you are doing is warning buyers if spending in the 3g range to just listen to others first..whoever disagree with your review are people who bought the MR and now they have to defend their 3000 payment .lol
I'm glad you feel that way. My intention is never to disrespect or upset anyone, but I also feel it's important to share balanced and honest impressionsas I hear things. 🙂
That's all going to come back to preference. I'm not as high on the Empyrean 2. They're solid, but not clearly better than the Elites, Utopia or Caldera IMO.
Abyss and hifiman sound signature are very different in nature. I can see that some peoples who love abyss dont like hifimans or vice versa. I am the one that pick abyss over any hifiman, even susvara cant win me. But i never disregard any hifiman as bad or flawed headphone, they are beautiful sounding but just not my cup of tea.
That's a great way to look at it. As much as I don't like the Dianas, I am glad that they exist for those who love them, such as you. Happy listening! 🙂
The ergonomics are a deal breaker. I still don't understand the Abyss approach to design. I think it's actually cool they do their own thing in terms of tuning, the more options the better, and I definitely champion weird or different stuff but you have so many better options for comfort with DCA, Meze, ZMF, and even HiFiMan, who get close to great ergonomics but still aren't quite there imo. Nice review 👍, I'm enjoying reading the hurt feelings in the comments 🤭
Ergonomics can only be a deal breaker once you try them for yourself. I find my pair very comfortable and have worn them for many hours at a time without feeling the need to take them off.
@@KXP70 I don't necessarily disagree but I will say that I've found headphones that other reviewers and owners have described as "comfortable" uncomfortable. I've yet to try a headphone with comfort issues or questions raised by reviewers or owners comfortable. Granted, I have quite the melon so maybe I'm a fringe user, but enough reviewers and owners have raised concerns about the wearability of Abyss stuff for me to seek greener pastures. Now add to this I've been spoiled by the previous brands I've listed. At a certain price threshold, maybe 500 and above, I personally won't accept adequate comfort. It has to be totally comfortable or the sound quality is moot. If my head or jaw aches, if my ears get hot or itch, if the pads squeak (looking at you HiFiMan) then for me, tis a deal breaker. I'd like to see the kind of attention to ergonomics that DCA and Meze put into their headphones from Abyss because as Passion For Sound will attest, I like different stuff, I like a tuning that does its own thing and isn't trying to adhere to a flavor of neutrality. But for the cost, I want sublime comfort.
with the additional pad inserts I find them to be some of the best I've owned. Initially I found them very loose, almost falling off my head when I was at Audio46 and didn't like them. But now I've completely changed my mind after 2 months. It takes me a while to land on a decision. I do however find the Atrium open to be excellent for all around tuning.
I don't have hair, so would not even risk them and for me the Empyrean 2 looks to be a headphone that speaks to buying at that price level. The other thing for me as a preference is that at these kilobuck levels, I want something that has a wider range of genres that it can nicely play. That is just for me of course, thank you Lachlan.
@@RocketLauncherwithInfiniteAmmo in terms of ergonomics it's much better, as only the last 40cm of the cable that goes to the headphones is split as opposed to the whole length as seen on the video. The standard cable is not as bulky either (it's actually quite thin on the split section).
Hifiman has excessive treble in general. The MR absolutely does not. I had the Organic 2x and although it's excellent in some respects for the price, the MR is just much more sophisticated.
It all depends on which part of the treble band we're talking about. The upper treble is higher on the MR and that's what I was talking about to create the sense of detail on other headphones.
Nicely Done. Good timing on this video as I'll be able to demo all the cans this weekend. Maybe I've missed it in the video - did you give a track or 2 suggestion on the sound stage you mentioned If not maybe you can ? Thanks
Glad it was good timing for you and that's great that you'll be able to try them for yourself. Maybe check out my audiophile soundtracks, audiophile jazz albums and audiophile classical albums videos for some track ideas. 🙂
Great review. Have you had them break in? I'm assuming the unit has some hours on it already. But I can agree that the bass is a bit lacking. I believe they are the best Diana that they've made yet. I enjoy their sound signature greatly. They're one of the only treble forward detailed tuning headphones I enjoy. I usually stay away from them, but think these hit the mark just right. Though I can understand where you are coming from with the majority of your input. Good review as always!
These have been used extensively by the distributor and a retailer before coming to me so that were well broken in (I always ensure a break in period before reviewing headphones 🙂) I'm glad you're enjoying them and weren't put off by me but liking them. Musical enjoyment is a personal pursuit that's different for us all. I'm so glad to hear that you're enjoying them!
Abyss is over rated because price dont match performance .. i highly respect reviewer Wave , super honest and passion you are the same super honest .keep up the good work
Have you tried it with the vegan suede pads? I didn't care for the MR with the stock learher pads but I liked them with the Vegan suedes. It smooths out the sound and lowers the treble. I found MR to be shouty and have too much treble in leather. I did end up selling/trading my MR for a DCA expanse. Though so far finding the Expanse to be kind of meh.
Unfortunately, I only received the leather pads with the demo headphones so I haven't tried any others. Thanks for sharing your experiences with them though.
Doesn't anyone think it's at least a little embarrassing that headphones above the 1k price point end up being bad? I think the 1k line is the most headphones should cost, especially when headphones at a lower asking price are more well-rounded. Headphones like the Dianas seem like they're marketed to facebook audiophile boomers who buy whatever's expensive because expensive must be better! Same thing with Chord products, I'm sure those products are actually good but not for whatever prices they're asking for. Mojo 2 is probably the only thing worth buying from them.
I wholeheartedly disagree about the Chord products. They're the best DACs I've tried so far at their respective prices. As for the MRs, I do believe they should be better than they are, but there are lots of amazing headphones over $1k so that line is a personal one for people to draw if they want to, but it's not supported by the quality of the gear available beyond it.
I only received the one set of pads, I'm afraid. As for the different positions, that only serves to break the seal and create an unnatural bass response with a very localised bass peak and sharp roll-off below it (I discussed this in other Abyss reviews). I see it as a design flaw or gimmick - not a real sonic benefit.
Another example of how you need to take your own music to the store and listen when it gets to this level. Off topic, how do you get a PC to recognise amanero? Is there an affordable way to output I2S from a PC?
I agree. Personal auditions are always the best bet. Amanero USB interfaces should have their own drivers provided to be recognised by a PC. The only way I've found to get I2S from a PC is via a DDC such as the Singxer SU-6.
Passion , mo worries , the headphone world knows you are a top reviewer hands down . Most likely people dont have the he1000se to compare what you said , but i have a feel if they did then they would still lean towards there MR and allow there ears to lie to them . Hifi man he1000se isnt a true 2000 its priced right where it started 3500
Thanks Angel. I agree that, sonically, the HEKSE is worth more than its current price. (Hopefully other manufacturers can follow HiFiMan's lead and drop prices more than they increase them)
I really like your reviews. I own a Burson soloist b/c of your reviews. Just added the v7 op amps. I really enjoy soundstage, warm middle, and can give up a little bass for articulation and comfortable presentation over accuracy. I just ordered the aries2 12th, and own focal clear mg. Am thinking of adding a 2nd pair of phones - would love your 2 cents on a few to review - i want to attend a can jam in November. Also, do you have a playlist for your headphone testing?
I'm so glad you like the reviews. Thanks for letting me know! What sort of budget are you working with for the next headphones? As for the test playlists, I have a number of them that I share with Patreon members so I can't share them publicly or it would be unfair on the members. 🙂
Oh wow! Thanks for joining, Jim! I just realised that I replied to your comment on the curated playlists just yesterday. I didn't look at the names to make the connection. My top recommendations for headphones would be the Meze Elites, ZMF Calderas and the ZMF Atriums. All fit your described preferences in different ways and all are very enjoyable!
Nice, a late Saturday night post. Never really been a fan of the Diana, never heard the 1266 though. What also pisses me off about Abyss is the 1-year warranty for a many multi thousand $ headphone.
Give me a good 400-500 dollar headphone that offers reasonable balance. Three to five K headphones? Should have rainbows and cute bunnies flying out your arse.😂
Initially when i stumbled upon your channel i thought your reviews were a bit too wishy-washy and not critical enough. You just proved me wrong here. Thanks for being so honest and keep being as critical as possible. Most of the time the consumer wants to hear what the weakness of the product is and if he's ok with it. No headphone is perfect in every aspect. Good work!
not wishy washy but neutral and polite. Too many reviewers bash products which is a total turnoff and unprofessional. Lachlan prefers to balance good and bad in a polite way. If you watch his reviews he has no hesitance to point out stuff he does not like. He is a nice and honest person at heart
I'm glad you liked it, Exekuhtor. I always try to be balanced because no product is perfect and most products will suit someone (if only a few people). If I think something truly is flawed (or brilliant) I'll definitely call it out. As Neil said, I try to be polite and respectful to the people who put a lot of time and effort into designing and building these products. Just because I might not like them, isn't a reason to bash them. Likewise, just because something is brand new and different, doesn't make it hype-worthy and better than the other great products that already exist.
every brand now a days have a problem to beat Hifiman price/performance ratio, since they have dropped the prices it is monopoly game xD, Abyss is overpriced since forever
It can actually be very beneficial to pull back the 2-4kHz range in headphones, similar to the old BBC dip in speakers. It can help to reduce fatigue and also increase the sense of space between the listener and the music. I think the problem with the MRs is actually the dramatic difference between that 3-4kHz range and the peaks higher up.
@@PassionforSound I agree it will be more relaxed but from my experience in music I know that reverb tails are - mostly -.. present on the mid and upper midrange & lower tremble but mostly upper midrange until 8khz.Usually producers cut or tame under 250 khz and over 8khz.Maybe the fact that MR lacks space..is from the scooped upper midrange or maybe is something else to blame (driver is not cable for micro dynamics ? ) I think tunning is like life you can t have it all..If you notice almost all the hi end over ears Hedd ,utopia , Hifiman , mm 500 are not very relaxed in that area ,they have more than 8-9 dB pick there.Some have that usual dip in the 1-2 khz that improves the spaciousness but not in the 3-4 khz.My NDH 30 has a serious pick there but you can t say it's harsh or fatiguing I would rather say that is dark sounding because it dips after 10 khz.The "difficult" frequencies are from 5 khz and after.. that's why when I look a ln iem or headphone I immediately look what happens from 5 khz to 14 kh I also don t like too early rise from 1 khz to 2.5 khz..At the end of the day one thing is sure that there is a reason why this happens to MR..Or it's the tuning or the driver..Thanks for the answer and the excellent reviews..!
No, it's a continuation of part experiences. The thumbnail is the very last thing I create so it's not at all reflective of my position coming in. I was really hoping to love these based on the thoughts I'd heard from others before I tried them.
Totally disagree with you on these. The organic to me is much thinner. I had the Meze Empyrean II and find them congested. It seems you have a bias that’s been set in and dragging over here.
Totally agree. I was trying these and the Empy 2 and went with the MR. Still very happy with my decision. I don’t understand what he is talking about with the treble. Seems some reviewers just have it in for Abyss. I’ll add mine are super comfortable too!
I don't have anything in for Abyss or a bias that's brought over. I'd heard good reports on these and was expecting to like them, but they're tonally flawed to my ears. I don't think the Empyrean 2 are as good as some are suggesting, either, so I can understand people not choosing those too. There's no perfect headphone out there (although a couple come close) so it's all about finding what suits your preferences and I'm not trying to make anyone wrong for not liking the MRs.
Unfortunately, the titles and thumbnails game is necessary. I do A/B testing on my videos to see what people will click on and the reality is that the more emotion-provoking or curiosity prompting titles and thumbnails are what people click on. It would not make sense for me to deliberately reduce the number of views a video gets by making less "engaging" thumbs and titles.
I have the Susvara, it’s a nice HP but not godlike like everyone makes them out to be. I enjoy my Focal Utopia’s more and find it more natural and speaker-like. Hell I like my Grado GS3000x the most for my daily driver with its typical built by Gipetto in his workshop Grado build quality.
@@mikeg2491 Cool. Still doesn’t change the fact that Lachlan thinks the HE1000SE is a vastly superior product than the Diana MR. The SE is by far the brightest headphone that HiFiMan makes and is way brighter than the MR. I get it that all headphones are different to some people but we’re taking listening advice from a guy who hasn’t stated all the relevant facts on the Abyss product line. I have a hard time taking this review seriously without all the facts.
Firstly, I never said the Peacock was better than the Susvara. Secondly, there's plenty of objective data proving that the HE1000SE is far from HiFiMan's brightest headphone. What are the relevant facts you believe I haven't included?
@@PassionforSound Yes you did. People can watch your older videos Lachlan. You exactly said that you prefer your Sendy Peacock over Susvara. Those are your words verbatim. In response to your inquiry you failed to mention that Abyss offers a 10 year warranty, has four pads available that change the MR’s tuning and you’ve completely ignored the fact that synergy in equipment matters. This is the same issue with your Susvara assumptions which is why your reviews are flawed and why you don’t hear what the majority of the community hears. Not every headphone will sound as intended with a TT2 or Burson amp. You need to play around with other source equipment with various headphones to find a synergistic pairing. See WaveTheory for a great example. You’ve come into this review with an inherent bias and it shows in your assessment and obviously in your conclusions. You’re the first reviewer that I’ve seen call the MR bright and the HE1000SE is brighter than the sun.
I’ll admit I haven’t finished the video but after owning V2/Phi for years; I agree with your previous reviews.
Ok now that I finished your video I also agree with you opinions on the MR.
What a shame for such a beautiful headphone
Overhyped, overpriced and puny sound.
They look good though and I’d take my HEK Stealth any day.
For the people looking to purchase it new; don’t. Buy a used a pair or demo.
Thanks for sharing your experiences as a longer term owner!
Do you actually own the MR? If not then your puny sound comment is meaningless.
@@bobhanuman65 Don’t need to based on the minor differences. The V2/Phi reviews nailed the issues in my experience.
Lachlan and other reviewers expressed the same lack of enough improvements for the Diana line.
How about you? How long did you own a pair of Diana? Btw my set up was full JPS loom including their XI stack.
@@bobhanuman65 Tons of people that have tried abyss products don't like them. Just because you overpaid for an inferior product you so happen to like doesn't mean other's haven't heard them.
Love the honesty and I appreciate a review that is not just hyping things
Glad you like my approach. I'll rarely hype anything and prefer to give a balanced review of any product I try. That way, you know that if I can something or rave about it, it's because I think it's truly deserving of it. 🙂
As an owner of the Arya Organics for the past 6 months or so, anything that wanted to replace them would have to be truly amazingly good. Personally I think they're the best sounding headphones under the 2.5K price point. Absolutely phenomenal value for money.
not considering shit build quality of any Hifiman, under 2,5k are so many headphones even from the same brand He1000se...
They are excellent for the price for sure but the MR are more sophisticated as they should be for the price.
I agree that the HEKSE is better, but the Organic is excellent. I also agree that the build quality is mediocre.
I do not hear the excess treble with the MR. It’s an enjoyable listen. Enough detail and energy but still smooth for long listening sessions. Suede pads tone down the resonance but I still find the leather pads enjoyable too. I really like it off the DNA Stellaris and Tube mini. The MJ3 and mojo2 are solid pairings as well.
The HEKse has much more treble. Actually gave me ear pain after listening secessions. They sound good during the secession but afterwards I could feel that increased treble. This was off tubes too. I don’t have this issue with the MR, Utopia, Susvara, Tungsten, Caldera, etc.
And Id take the MR over the Empy 2. Empy 2 has some treble peaks, much more than MR.
If you’re on the fence, give them a try. Reviewers have preferences and most likely have a different chain than you. Don’t treat them as the gospel.
Abyss headphones are sibilant GARBO 🤭
In general Hifiman is tuned with elevated treble. The MR benefits from extra headroom and is more open and detailed than the Empy II for my ears.
I agree that all reviewers are just one opinion and shouldn't be used as a sole decision making tool. We also all have different ear canal resonances and will therefore find different headphones more or less troubling in the treble.
Overall, I thought the MR treble quality was excellent. There was just too much of it for me from a tonal accuracy point of view.
Will agree with Rhodey on the Empyrean 2 being trebly. Compared to Susvara, Utopia '20 & '22, Atrium, E3, it's very sibilant. I can't comment on the Diana MR though.
Great review again thank you Lachlan. When I first received my Diana MR I was very disappointed just as you described. But the tuning and sound changed when I used it with the combination of Woo Audio Tube Mini as dac and Queststyle CMA 15 amp. MR became really smooth with very little sibilance. Layering became richer and much wider soundstage. MR compares favorably against my DCA E3 and Hifiman HE1000 V3. As you noted we all have different ears so I really appreciate your honest review. Please keep up the good work as always!👍👍👍
The MR is very chain dependent and unforgiving with the wrong one.
Thanks for being able to receive this review as intended, Max! I'm so glad you found a chain that you enjoy them with and that sounds like a lovely setup that would suit the MRs really well thanks to the extra midrange weight and treble smoothness (perhaps even a hint of roll off) that it would provide.
Happy listening!
@@bobhanuman65 Thats how the company moves the goalpost from the thing that actually matters. The headphones themselves....
Sadly, this is true of the whole hobby. The answer to a headphone with problematic tuning is that "it's chain dependent". What that really means is there's an issue with it's tuning that you have to find some way to fix (if it happens to not suit your personal preferences)
The only thing the HE1000SE did better than the MR for me was the extra, slightly more textured sub-bass, but the HE1000SE are a LOT brighter than the MR. I couldn't see myself listening to the HE1000SE for more than 30minutes because of that, whereas the MR could be a smooth, all-day long listen for me. I also don't think soundstage is everything. I listen mostly to studio recordings and the staging of the MR almost completely nails those recordings for me (if it weren't for the slightly excessive left-right distance that you mentioned). I'll worry about bigger staging when listening to concerts or orchestras or anything recorded in a big room, in which case I'm happy to remember no headphones can do it all perfect and I will reach out to something more appropriate for that type of recordings.
This has come up a bit and the treble from the HEKSE has some bite in a couple of the peaks it has. I.e. I agree that it has the more aggressive treble that could be troublesome for some people. Where the Diana MR is actually a brighter sounding headphone is that it has overall more energy in the treble compared to the mids and bass. That produces a brighter overall tonality despite the fact that the treble quality from the MR is excellent and not at all harsh.
Appreciate this. I had 1000se moved to diana mr and ended up moving back to he1000se. One is comfort as mentioned and the other was better sound of he1000se in staging and tonal balance with my gears as well. That was about a week ago when i returned diana mr...
Did you also think the Diana MR sounded too bright, brighter than the HE1000SE?
@dmarcus1260 not really. I thought it wasn't as dynamic vs he1000se with schiit mj3. Sound stage was definitely smaller and resolution was bit down. Maybe diff gear might change nuances.
To be clear on the brightness question, because some others have questioned this from my description, I found the tonality of the MR tilted too much into the treble. This is different from the bite in the treble that the HEKSE so there may be some confusion caused by the different versions of "brightness" being discussed.
Thank you for another excellent review!
I recently bought the Meze Empyrean II.
I've had previous issues with headbands during long work sessions, AKG N90 & Sony XM4 could give me headaches that would last for days.
But the comfort and sound of the Emyprean have been amazing!
Excited for your review of the Empyrean II,
Hope you could give some recommendations for DAC & AMP ~3k$ that would do them justice.
I feel the iFi Audio Micro iDSD Signature gives them too much "attack"
My pleasure. I'm glad it was helpful!
I'll be sure to discuss the attack from the Empy II as I've noticed it as well.
I want to add my two cents into all this and tell you that personally I really appreciate your honest unbiased opinions on how you truly feel of a product words can't really describe how appreciative that I am for channels like yours since you guys are few and very very far between I was planning on getting the abyss but after you shared with me your thoughts on what you thought they were in comparison to say the Aria stealth I got to say I'm ordering me the Aria stealth and yes I know I'm spelling the headphones incorrectly voice to text is a nuisance
Thanks for commenting. I'm glad I could help. I'll always share the good and the bad of any product while trying to also respect the product and the care that will have gone into making it.
I do think you've made the right choice with the Aryas. (And no problems with the voice to text spelling 😉)
Would love to see a detailed comparison between Empyrean 2 and the original Empyrean.
There's plenty out there!
I don't have the OG anymore, but I miss it. 🙂
They seem to be a very polarizing company.
yea no doubt!
Very much so
Thanks for sharing. I wonder what you are hearing. The treble of the Diana MR seems more subdued compared to the Hifiman HE1000 SE according to the measurements. Only in the area above 14.000 Hz does it produce a higher output than the HE 1000 SE. I am not claiming that your are not hearing what you are hearing, I am just wondering. Greetings from Denmark
It is absolutely more subdued that Hifiman and I think it takes to EQ more favorably.
Yes, there are lots of different ways that we can interpret brightness so I understand the cause of the question.
If you look at the two graphs of these headphones overlayed, the HEKSE also has higher bass and midrange at many frequencies so it's the overall balance of the frequency range that makes them more tonally accurate, despite having some excess bite in the treble. Our ears and brain perceive everything relatively so we have to consider the whole frequency response, not just the treble frequencies.
Also, if you look at the MR mids and bass, it tapers of consistently down to 20Hz which is why the treble is over balanced (IMO).
The treble quality is definitely better on the MR without question, but the overall tonal balance is superior on the HEKSE to my ears.
@@PassionforSound Thanks for clarifying, I have newer heard the Abyss Diana MR so I can obviously not give my view regarding which is subjectively better for me. I have however heard the Hifimann HE1000 SE, and I can’t say that was particularly impressed. Basically to me their soundstage felt like what a dumbbell weight looks like. A string of sound from left to right inside the head (where the handle is on the weight) and a giant blob of sound to the left and right just outside of the ears (where the weights are on the dumbbell. This for me somewhat incoherent soundstage, actually made it difficult to listen for frequency balance/timbre. A headphone with a for me coherent soundstage (but more or less inside the skull, which I can easily live with ) and a subjectively even and coherent sound is the Dan Clark Audio E3. After writing this, I will immediately check out if you have had the good fortune of listening to them. Sorry for derailing my comments away from the subject of the review the Diana MR. Greetings from Denmark
I'm yet to try the E3, but I hope to.
As for the HEKSE - I'm not suggesting it's the best headphone around. In fact, that's part of the problem for me with the Diana MR. It should be competing with headphones that are better than the HEKSE, but it's not IMO.
Thanks for watching and commenting! 🙂🙂
Too much treble also messes with timbre of acoustic instrments. I sometimes wonder what treble chasers would think of said instruments when played in front of them, it would likely sound very muffled in comparison.
Yes, that's very true!
@@PassionforSound Thanks, someties I wonder if I am the only person who thinks this way in the hobby.
I know what you mean, but my working theory is that the treble/detail/analytical chasers might be the louder group in the community for some reason.
@@PassionforSound You are right, they are the louder group. I wonder if they others are simply listening to music instead! 😅
Haha. Quite possibly 🙂
Liked the video and felt the comparison were fair - Thanks.
Glad you liked it! 🙂
People hear different because of the amp and dac they use. But great headphones find a way to sound good on most component's
I’ve always been awed by the look of Diana line, priced at (for me) Unobtainium dollars. Went to the Dallas Canjam and there they were, powered by that $40k tube amp. Put on a track I know and before 2 minutes were up I took them off, thinking “how boring, and not too comfy.” Then I thought “Self, you must be wrong. Look how pretty, and how costly.” So I thought I’d try them again but first, for kicks, I’ll plug in my Drop/DCA Aeon Closed. Wow. Wowee Wow. My humble headphones have a lot more to give me with upgraded electronics. Fast forward 4 months to this week. Just got in my new Geshelli J2 DAC and ZMF/JDS Homage amp. Only one Wow, not three. But I thank Canjam for pointing out my headphones were being underserved. The Focal Clear MG are benefitting as well.
Glad you got to try it out for yourself so you could trust your own ears! 🙂🙂
I applaud you and wave , the 2 best and most honest of all reviewers .
Never afraid to rock the boat and tell your truth . Bravo , and I do own he1000se and zmf verite close, my best 1-2 punch.. Great review and all you are doing is warning buyers if spending in the 3g range to just listen to others first..whoever disagree with your review are people who bought the MR and now they have to defend their 3000 payment .lol
I'm glad you feel that way. My intention is never to disrespect or upset anyone, but I also feel it's important to share balanced and honest impressionsas I hear things. 🙂
Comfort is huge if you are someone who enjoys long listening sessions. While I haven't tried them... Meze Empy 2 seem to be the HP of choice
Susvara are SUPERIOR. 🤫
That's all going to come back to preference. I'm not as high on the Empyrean 2. They're solid, but not clearly better than the Elites, Utopia or Caldera IMO.
Abyss and hifiman sound signature are very different in nature. I can see that some peoples who love abyss dont like hifimans or vice versa. I am the one that pick abyss over any hifiman, even susvara cant win me. But i never disregard any hifiman as bad or flawed headphone, they are beautiful sounding but just not my cup of tea.
That's a great way to look at it. As much as I don't like the Dianas, I am glad that they exist for those who love them, such as you. Happy listening! 🙂
The ergonomics are a deal breaker. I still don't understand the Abyss approach to design. I think it's actually cool they do their own thing in terms of tuning, the more options the better, and I definitely champion weird or different stuff but you have so many better options for comfort with DCA, Meze, ZMF, and even HiFiMan, who get close to great ergonomics but still aren't quite there imo. Nice review 👍, I'm enjoying reading the hurt feelings in the comments 🤭
Great points!
Ergonomics can only be a deal breaker once you try them for yourself. I find my pair very comfortable and have worn them for many hours at a time without feeling the need to take them off.
@@KXP70 I don't necessarily disagree but I will say that I've found headphones that other reviewers and owners have described as "comfortable" uncomfortable. I've yet to try a headphone with comfort issues or questions raised by reviewers or owners comfortable. Granted, I have quite the melon so maybe I'm a fringe user, but enough reviewers and owners have raised concerns about the wearability of Abyss stuff for me to seek greener pastures. Now add to this I've been spoiled by the previous brands I've listed. At a certain price threshold, maybe 500 and above, I personally won't accept adequate comfort. It has to be totally comfortable or the sound quality is moot. If my head or jaw aches, if my ears get hot or itch, if the pads squeak (looking at you HiFiMan) then for me, tis a deal breaker. I'd like to see the kind of attention to ergonomics that DCA and Meze put into their headphones from Abyss because as Passion For Sound will attest, I like different stuff, I like a tuning that does its own thing and isn't trying to adhere to a flavor of neutrality. But for the cost, I want sublime comfort.
with the additional pad inserts I find them to be some of the best I've owned. Initially I found them very loose, almost falling off my head when I was at Audio46 and didn't like them. But now I've completely changed my mind after 2 months. It takes me a while to land on a decision. I do however find the Atrium open to be excellent for all around tuning.
I don't have hair, so would not even risk them and for me the Empyrean 2 looks to be a headphone that speaks to buying at that price level. The other thing for me as a preference is that at these kilobuck levels, I want something that has a wider range of genres that it can nicely play. That is just for me of course, thank you Lachlan.
Yes, I'm with you on the wide genre compatibility, Tai Dee. Glad you liked the vid!
I'm bald and the comfort is perfect for me. Everyone's head is different, I don't think hair is a factor 👍
I agree. It seems there's more to it than hair so I think head shape plays into it quite strongly.
Thank you for this, it is much appreciated.
My pleasure 🙂🙂
Well that cable design was the final nail in the coffin.
Yep, that one makes no sense to me.
That cable isn't the standard Abyss cable and is actually a (very expensive) optional extra.
@@KXP70 so is the standard one worse or better you think?
@@RocketLauncherwithInfiniteAmmo in terms of ergonomics it's much better, as only the last 40cm of the cable that goes to the headphones is split as opposed to the whole length as seen on the video. The standard cable is not as bulky either (it's actually quite thin on the split section).
“Buy an HEKse and EQ more treble into it”
More???😂 Damn…
I'm all about that treble, 'bout that treble, no bass
Hifiman has excessive treble in general. The MR absolutely does not. I had the Organic 2x and although it's excellent in some respects for the price, the MR is just much more sophisticated.
It all depends on which part of the treble band we're talking about. The upper treble is higher on the MR and that's what I was talking about to create the sense of detail on other headphones.
Nicely Done.
Good timing on this video as I'll be able to demo all the cans this weekend.
Maybe I've missed it in the video - did you give a track or 2 suggestion on the sound stage you mentioned
If not maybe you can ?
Thanks
Glad it was good timing for you and that's great that you'll be able to try them for yourself.
Maybe check out my audiophile soundtracks, audiophile jazz albums and audiophile classical albums videos for some track ideas. 🙂
Great review. Have you had them break in? I'm assuming the unit has some hours on it already. But I can agree that the bass is a bit lacking. I believe they are the best Diana that they've made yet. I enjoy their sound signature greatly. They're one of the only treble forward detailed tuning headphones I enjoy. I usually stay away from them, but think these hit the mark just right. Though I can understand where you are coming from with the majority of your input. Good review as always!
These have been used extensively by the distributor and a retailer before coming to me so that were well broken in (I always ensure a break in period before reviewing headphones 🙂)
I'm glad you're enjoying them and weren't put off by me but liking them. Musical enjoyment is a personal pursuit that's different for us all. I'm so glad to hear that you're enjoying them!
Wow, so for $3K you get a super duper version of the XS made in the USA.
Abyss is over rated because price dont match performance .. i highly respect reviewer Wave , super honest and passion you are the same super honest .keep up the good work
Have you tried it with the vegan suede pads?
I didn't care for the MR with the stock learher pads but I liked them with the Vegan suedes. It smooths out the sound and lowers the treble. I found MR to be shouty and have too much treble in leather.
I did end up selling/trading my MR for a DCA expanse. Though so far finding the Expanse to be kind of meh.
Unfortunately, I only received the leather pads with the demo headphones so I haven't tried any others.
Thanks for sharing your experiences with them though.
Doesn't anyone think it's at least a little embarrassing that headphones above the 1k price point end up being bad? I think the 1k line is the most headphones should cost, especially when headphones at a lower asking price are more well-rounded. Headphones like the Dianas seem like they're marketed to facebook audiophile boomers who buy whatever's expensive because expensive must be better! Same thing with Chord products, I'm sure those products are actually good but not for whatever prices they're asking for. Mojo 2 is probably the only thing worth buying from them.
I wholeheartedly disagree about the Chord products. They're the best DACs I've tried so far at their respective prices.
As for the MRs, I do believe they should be better than they are, but there are lots of amazing headphones over $1k so that line is a personal one for people to draw if they want to, but it's not supported by the quality of the gear available beyond it.
chain diagram. I love it. keep using.
Is the Empyrean 2 your go 2 now?
No, I don't think it's better than the Elites or Utopia 2022.
@@PassionforSound Good to know!
I would have really liked to have heard you opinions with the different pad options and also positions.
I only received the one set of pads, I'm afraid. As for the different positions, that only serves to break the seal and create an unnatural bass response with a very localised bass peak and sharp roll-off below it (I discussed this in other Abyss reviews). I see it as a design flaw or gimmick - not a real sonic benefit.
They seem to fixed everything you said on Diana DZ including headband. Now again we request a review.
I'm keen to try it and I'll be stoked if it's truly better.
Another example of how you need to take your own music to the store and listen when it gets to this level. Off topic, how do you get a PC to recognise amanero? Is there an affordable way to output I2S from a PC?
I agree. Personal auditions are always the best bet.
Amanero USB interfaces should have their own drivers provided to be recognised by a PC.
The only way I've found to get I2S from a PC is via a DDC such as the Singxer SU-6.
Passion , mo worries , the headphone world knows you are a top reviewer hands down . Most likely people dont have the he1000se to compare what you said , but i have a feel if they did then they would still lean towards there MR and allow there ears to lie to them . Hifi man he1000se isnt a true 2000 its priced right where it started 3500
Thanks Angel. I agree that, sonically, the HEKSE is worth more than its current price. (Hopefully other manufacturers can follow HiFiMan's lead and drop prices more than they increase them)
In before an Abyss fan says you need an air gap in the pads because poor fit is engineered into the FR and bass response 🤭
Lol
Yep, that bass response tuning idea makes no sense to me, either.
Is both Caldera and Atrium Closed superior to these headphones? Thanks.
I would definitely take both over the MR.
I had both but with enough power the MR has more punch to my ears but the caldera and AC are totally different HPs
I really like your reviews. I own a Burson soloist b/c of your reviews. Just added the v7 op amps. I really enjoy soundstage, warm middle, and can give up a little bass for articulation and comfortable presentation over accuracy. I just ordered the aries2 12th, and own focal clear mg. Am thinking of adding a 2nd pair of phones - would love your 2 cents on a few to review - i want to attend a can jam in November. Also, do you have a playlist for your headphone testing?
I'm so glad you like the reviews. Thanks for letting me know! What sort of budget are you working with for the next headphones?
As for the test playlists, I have a number of them that I share with Patreon members so I can't share them publicly or it would be unfair on the members. 🙂
I joined patreon for you! As for budget, let’s say
Oh wow! Thanks for joining, Jim! I just realised that I replied to your comment on the curated playlists just yesterday. I didn't look at the names to make the connection.
My top recommendations for headphones would be the Meze Elites, ZMF Calderas and the ZMF Atriums. All fit your described preferences in different ways and all are very enjoyable!
Thank you so so much. I’ll start looking at both!
My pleasure! I hope we get to chat on the next Q&A call (next weekend - invites coming out soon)
Nice, a late Saturday night post. Never really been a fan of the Diana, never heard the 1266 though. What also pisses me off about Abyss is the 1-year warranty for a many multi thousand $ headphone.
They are offering a 10 year warranty at the moment. Check the website.
They're definitely an interesting company. Glad to hear they've upped the warranty
The warranty is 10 yrs if you apply for it.
@bobhanuman65
Automatic registration if you purchase directly from the manufacturer, according to the website.
Elevated treble is a big nope for me
Me too - from any brand.
can they be corrected via eq?
Tonally, yes, but that introduces phase issues into the signal from most EQ setups of its not a linear phase system.
I would take your advice with a grain of salt
I would recommend taking all online reviews with a grain of salt unless you have a history of aligning with a particular reviewer.
Hey why don't you watch Wave review on thise abyss mr .lol
Give me a good 400-500 dollar headphone that offers reasonable balance. Three to five K headphones? Should have rainbows and cute bunnies flying out your arse.😂
🌈 🦄
Initially when i stumbled upon your channel i thought your reviews were a bit too wishy-washy and not critical enough. You just proved me wrong here. Thanks for being so honest and keep being as critical as possible. Most of the time the consumer wants to hear what the weakness of the product is and if he's ok with it. No headphone is perfect in every aspect. Good work!
not wishy washy but neutral and polite. Too many reviewers bash products which is a total turnoff and unprofessional. Lachlan prefers to balance good and bad in a polite way. If you watch his reviews he has no hesitance to point out stuff he does not like. He is a nice and honest person at heart
I'm glad you liked it, Exekuhtor. I always try to be balanced because no product is perfect and most products will suit someone (if only a few people). If I think something truly is flawed (or brilliant) I'll definitely call it out.
As Neil said, I try to be polite and respectful to the people who put a lot of time and effort into designing and building these products. Just because I might not like them, isn't a reason to bash them. Likewise, just because something is brand new and different, doesn't make it hype-worthy and better than the other great products that already exist.
I owned the original Diana... one of the most over-priced and over-rated headphones ever.
every brand now a days have a problem to beat Hifiman price/performance ratio, since they have dropped the prices it is monopoly game xD, Abyss is overpriced since forever
I think MR lacks a little 3khz the whole area 3khz - 4khz is too much subdued
Do you actually own them?
@@bobhanuman65 No but I m musician and have home studio many years.
It can actually be very beneficial to pull back the 2-4kHz range in headphones, similar to the old BBC dip in speakers. It can help to reduce fatigue and also increase the sense of space between the listener and the music.
I think the problem with the MRs is actually the dramatic difference between that 3-4kHz range and the peaks higher up.
@@PassionforSound I agree it will be more relaxed but from my experience in music I know that reverb tails are - mostly -.. present on the mid and upper midrange & lower tremble but mostly upper midrange until 8khz.Usually producers cut or tame under 250 khz and over 8khz.Maybe the fact that MR lacks space..is from the scooped upper midrange or maybe is something else to blame (driver is not cable for micro dynamics ? ) I think tunning is like life you can t have it all..If you notice almost all the hi end over ears Hedd ,utopia , Hifiman , mm 500 are not very relaxed in that area ,they have more than 8-9 dB pick there.Some have that usual dip in the 1-2 khz that improves the spaciousness but not in the 3-4 khz.My NDH 30 has a serious pick there but you can t say it's harsh or fatiguing I would rather say that is dark sounding because it dips after 10 khz.The "difficult" frequencies are from 5 khz and after.. that's why when I look a ln iem or headphone I immediately look what happens from 5 khz to 14 kh I also don t like too early rise from 1 khz to 2.5 khz..At the end of the day one thing is sure that there is a reason why this happens to MR..Or it's the tuning or the driver..Thanks for the answer and the excellent reviews..!
How much $ you're going to cost them? :) Cheers! ;)
That's never my aim. I'm sure (and hope) that there was care and attention put into them. I just don't particularly agree with the results.
Just look at the title to his review! It is a Hack Job
No, it's a continuation of part experiences. The thumbnail is the very last thing I create so it's not at all reflective of my position coming in. I was really hoping to love these based on the thoughts I'd heard from others before I tried them.
Totally disagree with you on these. The organic to me is much thinner. I had the Meze Empyrean II and find them congested. It seems you have a bias that’s been set in and dragging over here.
Totally agree. I was trying these and the Empy 2 and went with the MR. Still very happy with my decision. I don’t understand what he is talking about with the treble. Seems some reviewers just have it in for Abyss. I’ll add mine are super comfortable too!
I don't have anything in for Abyss or a bias that's brought over. I'd heard good reports on these and was expecting to like them, but they're tonally flawed to my ears.
I don't think the Empyrean 2 are as good as some are suggesting, either, so I can understand people not choosing those too.
There's no perfect headphone out there (although a couple come close) so it's all about finding what suits your preferences and I'm not trying to make anyone wrong for not liking the MRs.
I don’t think the title of your review is worthy of a serious reviewer.
@@luked5041 Total click bait and sets up bias before the review even begins.
Unfortunately, the titles and thumbnails game is necessary. I do A/B testing on my videos to see what people will click on and the reality is that the more emotion-provoking or curiosity prompting titles and thumbnails are what people click on. It would not make sense for me to deliberately reduce the number of views a video gets by making less "engaging" thumbs and titles.
Keep in mind you’re listening to a guy to believes the Sendy Peacock is a superior headphone to a Susvara.
I have the Susvara, it’s a nice HP but not godlike like everyone makes them out to be. I enjoy my Focal Utopia’s more and find it more natural and speaker-like. Hell I like my Grado GS3000x the most for my daily driver with its typical built by Gipetto in his workshop Grado build quality.
@@mikeg2491 Cool. Still doesn’t change the fact that Lachlan thinks the HE1000SE is a vastly superior product than the Diana MR. The SE is by far the brightest headphone that HiFiMan makes and is way brighter than the MR. I get it that all headphones are different to some people but we’re taking listening advice from a guy who hasn’t stated all the relevant facts on the Abyss product line. I have a hard time taking this review seriously without all the facts.
Firstly, I never said the Peacock was better than the Susvara.
Secondly, there's plenty of objective data proving that the HE1000SE is far from HiFiMan's brightest headphone.
What are the relevant facts you believe I haven't included?
@@PassionforSound Yes you did. People can watch your older videos Lachlan. You exactly said that you prefer your Sendy Peacock over Susvara. Those are your words verbatim. In response to your inquiry you failed to mention that Abyss offers a 10 year warranty, has four pads available that change the MR’s tuning and you’ve completely ignored the fact that synergy in equipment matters. This is the same issue with your Susvara assumptions which is why your reviews are flawed and why you don’t hear what the majority of the community hears. Not every headphone will sound as intended with a TT2 or Burson amp. You need to play around with other source equipment with various headphones to find a synergistic pairing. See WaveTheory for a great example. You’ve come into this review with an inherent bias and it shows in your assessment and obviously in your conclusions. You’re the first reviewer that I’ve seen call the MR bright and the HE1000SE is brighter than the sun.
Preferring something doesn't make it superior.