Whether you wear flattering clothes or something more unflattering, if you exist in the frame of the male gaze it is perceived that you've worn it for them. Ideologically ALL that exists is for them and this is regardless of their favor towards the subjects' choices because guess what? We can't choose our way out of how the gaze perceives us. We don't become invisible to the male gaze by dressing outside of their wardrobe, we simply become hated. it is a them problem with an us consequence.
i dont really like to limit myself based on male gaze or female gaze. i just dress how i feel. if i feel feminine, i’ll wear a dress, a skirt, or clothing that compliments my body shape. if i feel masculine, i’ll wear something looser, or something that makes my shoulders look bigger and stronger. i get gender euphoria looking at how certain people dress, and then i use them as inspiration for future outfits and clothing pieces.
why do we call ourselves progressive if we associate a woman with a dress and men with something comfortable that makes us appear stronger? it's the same shit women have been dealing for ages with. don't mind me, just ranting here
@@schmeterling i dont associate women with dresses and men with “clothes that look stronger” or whatever. i associate masculine and feminine with those terms. masculine and feminine can be applied to any gender, because they’re adjectives.
@@kokiiaa That is literally what you're doing! There's no one image as to how masculinity and femininity looks like. Why is femininity only just dresses and heels and masculine is loose track pants and shirts? You can wear stuff that make your shoulders look stronger and still be feminine like this whole femininity and masculinity energies or whatever is just dumb.
@@0fficialselena__90 in my opinion, now masculine and feminine are based on traditional, but not necessary relevant to time, features. For example, look at traditional clothes. Men and women usually have differences in their traditional costumes, and those features are considered masculine or feminine in those cultures. Just like that, modern definition of masculine and feminine comes from western European traditional clothes (i think i don't need to explain why). But these terms still don't determine your gender identity (however, they can help to epress it). You won't call a woman in a blazer with shoulder pads a man, same with a man in a floral blouse. 'Strong' and 'weak' in clothes is mostly about lines. A structured dress would look 'stronger' than a men's loose shirt. I don't deny that or society still ties masculinity and femininity strictly to men and women, but i think we're on the slow but steady way to change that.
Hi, just a quick thing about corsets. As someone who actually wore one almost daily for a whole semester when I had back pain more often, they are actually super comfortable, I could even run a little in it when late for class. I still pull it out occasionally when the pain gets a bit much. Helps with posture and keeping upright. Mine is fitted to my body, and that really makes a difference. I had tried to use a generic back brace you could get from Walmart, but that was actually worse cause it wouldn't match my curves and would feel like it was crushing my ribs. As other have mentioned I think the problem with corsets comes with tight lacing and improperly fitted ones. I enjoyed the video otherwise, it's good content. Just wanted to throw in a personal anecdote that corsets aren't as bad as they are portrayed
I would like to add that dressing to avoid male attention is still dressing for the male gaze. It also doesn’t work imo 🥴I got catcalled recently while wearing full length pants, long sleeve button down and a blazer. It’s almost like it doesn’t matter what you wear, because some men will objectify you no matter what.
I seems like individuals of this trend think it’s about looking “cute” and “sexy”, but it’s not about that at all. It’s about power. Wearing sweatpants and a hoodie has no impact on avoiding the male gaze, just as they don’t protect individuals from assault.
Well, as a guy I can tell you that it doesn't matter what your wear, you can't stop the male hormones. If a guy is horny and disrespectful you will get catcalled no matter what
That's not the point tho. Everyone knows you will still get catcalled because humans are disgusting. The point is to start dressing how you would like and not show skin if you don't want to. Lots of girl wear "sexy" clothes even if they don't like them much just to get attention aka they dress for male gaze. That's how I understood it at least
@@phucbich7581 people make so many excuses to wear the most exposing clothing, wouldn’t you want to be viewed with more respect? The less you wear the less your respected for you naturally how you carry your self matters so much in how people view you if you want to dress as if you work on the corner go ahead, life is to short to worry what others think but hopefully in all choices you’ll be proud of how you were.
@@JosiahMatthews the amount of clothing u wear has nothing to do with the amount of respect u deserve we all are human n unless you’ve done some bad we all deserve respect regardless of what we wear it doesn’t matter how people “naturally” see it or whatever
Why can’t we just wear what we want without concerning ourselves about what men think? “Not dressing for the male gaze” is doing the exact opposite of what people want it to do. Forget about men, I want to look good for myself.
hey giiiirl, while you raise up many interesting points about how the male gaze influences fashion and beauty standards, i have to point out the fact that the male gaze also plays a role in the demonisation of corsets. back in the days, corsets where made by women, for women and were used not only as a fashion statement, but also as means to help with back pains for example, and grumpy old men did anything in their power to bring down the work of these women in charge of the fashion industry. Karolina Żebrowska (who specialises in fashion history) made an in depth video about the topic: "How Victorian Men Taught Us to Hate Corsets" if anyone is interested ! thanks for taking the time to read my rant lol and thank you for the hard work you put in your videos♥
I feel like the term "male gaze" was coined for how male movie makers were shooting movies, or how male writers use to describe women, and the tiktok and twitter essayists decided to apply it to regular women living their regular lives. Every single thing we do nowadays can and will be politicised, even by ourselves. That’s crazy.
a few things: karolina zebrowska made a video called "How Victorian Men Taught Us to Hate Corsets: The Biggest Lie in Fashion History" (Which btw the title already says it but the corset doesn't have to do much with the male gaze and isn't as harmful as everyone thinks it was. It was worn by men too and for women it was the pre-bra option.) also I started dressing more covered up and wearing baggier clothes because I don't like men looking me up and down, it's like, it's fun getting attention when you're interested too but not when 40y/o men do it. if that wasn't an issue I would totally dress more revealing, like mini skirts or low rise jeans with a crop-top... I once wore low rise jeans and a crop top (they weren't even that low but not high waisted) and a middle aged dude came up to me to ask how old I was and I wearing headphones, trying to pass him but he was like "I'm not gonna steal anything" I was 16 at the time I think. don't get me wrong modest clothes are also beautiful sooo what I wanted to say in the end - wear whatever you want/feel comfortable in
YES YES !! I highly recommend every one watching her video about corsets.. she has made a few to explain about corsets and the misconceptions regarding it !!
@@coletteleto I think both sides can have some truth to them, I'm just pointing it out because corsets have been portrayed in a negative light in the media a lot. Also I mentioned Karolina because she is someone who seems very interested in historical fashion and explains it better than I could and more into depth. I also don't care to do a full research do give you the sources, neither do I have to justify anything. Instead of writing what you wrote you could've linked some sources yourself and made a counter argument.
I don’t dress for the male gaze and I don’t dress for the female gaze I dress for my gaze and that’s that let girls do whatever they want without putting labels on what they do
We don't actually dress for ourselves, cause we live in this culture and had absorved it unconsciously, so, we won't be entirely free. The thing is to start questioning if it's really my choise to wear this or that way.
@@list283 Speak for yourself. I love my beautiful body and I love dressing it up in fine fabrics and admiring myself when I'm alone. I dress for myself.
I just wanted to add a lil something in regards to corsets. Historically, they weren't actually that bad. They were the everyday women's means of support that would also allow them to do what ever their every day labor called for. On the other hand, there was a practice called "tight lacing," and as the name suggests, it consisted of tying the laces of the corset insanely tight. Of course, that practice isn't good and in fact, the people of that time knew that it wasn't. And then there's also those sayings you hear of people being like, "oh their corsets were so tight that the Victorian women were constantly fainting!" I'm not even sure where that thought came about, but trying to find evidence of that occurring is incredibly difficult. And all the common women had so much work to do, it doesn't make sense for them to get the work done while simultaneously fainting. Anywho, I just wanted to share that :)
So I saw somewhere that fainting in the Victoran era was a symptom of "female hysteria", and that treatment for it was basically the early vibrat*rs, used to give women an org*sm. I don't remember what video it was (you can probably find something similar by looking up female hysteria in Victorian era here on UA-cam), but I do remember that my takeaway was something along the lines of "well if all I could do to be shown a good time in the Victorian era was pretend to faint, of course I'd blame it on the corset and fool the men into giving me proper treatment for my hysteria".
@@carlaquintero6493 Of course! The modern view of corsets and how they really were are drastically different. And I definitely don't blame anyone who does view them the way most people do in the 21st century because most people are never taught about how it actually was and just hear the horrors of how they supposedly were.
also, there was the fact that many of those tiny corseted waists we see in pictures were the result of the photoshop of that time plus the dressing (puff sleeves, voluminous skirts), which gives the illusion of a smaller waist.
corsets are the real mvp's for support of the jubblies & they are great for back support as well as core engagement during every day activies/work. a proper fitted corset did wonders for me as a student & waitress.
Hi beautiful :D Historical Reminder : Corsets were part of undergarments and a small part of woman actually tied them very hard ! By the way… Many actresses say that they felt discomfort at wearing them, because there are not shaped into their body figure.
Very glad someone said what I was thinking! Before what we know as corsets came along, structural garments were worn by women to improve their daily lives, not subject themselves to torture for ✨men✨ Not everything is about ✨men✨ ☺️
also depends on the time period, women in the 50s also wore corsets, but they were more of a fetish item (worn by burlesque performers and pin-up girls) or as a vanity piece explicitly used for shaping and to accentuate the body
Just wanted to say that -while I’m not an expert- historical corsets weren’t all that bad, many working women wore them as support, like back braces. They were really just long bras, and while they *could* cause damage, it was really only if you were wearing one not fitted to you, or tightened it too tight. A lot of myths about the corset were incredibly exaggerated truths, corsets were popular during a time where “yellow journalism” this thing where newspapers messed with facts just to sell more, was very rampant. Also, I think that corsets were originally created for men? Edit: I agree with what you said about main issue of the male gaze, just had to be a bit nitpicky.
I just love how that old picture is always brought up to show what damage corsets could cause. I mean it is a literal drawing it has nothing to do with anatomy
It's so sad that we are taught to love ourselves if we are wanted by males. If a guys find a girl attractive, only then she's considered attractive. The things guys find pretty or attractive for girls become the beauty standard for females, for example, because boys find bigger chested girl hot, so it became a beauty standard. I hope soon all the girls and boys do things for themselves, not for others. Edit: here, i don't mean that every men is like this and also, I don't mean only females suffer from this beauty standard, men do to. I just didn't mention it in the original comment because the video was addressing the problems faced by females.
Isn't skinny the beauty standard? Every girl i know wants to be skinny & praises bella hadid & kendall Jenner for their bodies. Despite the fact that men don't like skinny bodies.
@@Zoe-nl1jn well, many men like skinny girls. As someone who was bullied for being thicc, i know. But if i truly say, it mainly depends at the crowd you are looking at. For example, men of color prefer thicker women. I live in India and men here prefer small, skinny delicate girls. Like many men like bodies of kardashians and many artist who are thicc, but on the other hand, many men consider those bodies not attractive and prefer slim or skinny women. It's not just with women tho, for men, the beauty standard is what women like, like bigger and larger bodies, or soft but tattooed guys and stuff. I hope you understand my point of view, thank you for sharing yours tho.
As a girl, you literally find guys who like your look behind every corner, unless you go into any extrem, like unhealty skinny or unhealty big. But it's unfair to pretend that guys are the ones with the high unfair standards, all my life girls made fun of me for beeing skinnier then them while I never looked at any girl like she is to skinny or to big...... And then there is my fit tall Strong brother who gets girl after girl......sure you girls have the unfair beauty standard
I wanted to say that almost all women used to wear corsets but not for the sole purpose of getting an “hourglass” figure. Back then they didn’t use bras so corsets provided support. Even working class women used corsets. Also even when it was worn for fashion tight lacing wasn’t all that common and corsets were usually well fitted and tailored. To create an hourglass figure they would exaggerate the hips instead of cinching in the waist to an extreme extent. The literature about corsets back in the day was mostly written by men who viewed women as “vain” and “shallow” and would often over exaggerate the effects of corsets including claiming that it causes fainting spells and bone deformities. If you wear a corset correctly it is perfectly safe :)
I’m not particularly female, but i love dressing feminine a lot of the time. Then, the times i like to dress more masculine, it’s, “who are you dressing up for, huh?” I’ve learnt to just stop questioning myself through the eyes of our society, and wear, act, or behave the way *I* truly am, aspire to be, and need to be to thrive in this world.
i hate term ''male gaze'' because lots of people use it wrong and now it just reinforces the idea that when you are feminine and sexy you exist only to gain male attention... i'm a lesbian who really likes makeup, dresses and heels and i hate that men thinks that i dress for them and girls think that i dress for men. also often fans of this term are just puritans who are scared and disgusted by women in ''revealing'' clothes.
Same here. As though men didn't already think that enough... we always hear how a girl is dressing for a guy's attention and all that bs. So tired of that... I just like to feel sexy in my clothes leave me alone.
Not the misinformation on corsets. I love your vids Zoe but pls don’t spread misinformation on corsets. They are actually good undergarments that supported women. The idea that they were bad came from men who wanted to take down the corset industry since it was an industry run by women. Also the famous actors who talk about how “horrible” a corset was is bc it wasn’t made and fitted correctly. There are many historical dress UA-cam channels that provide great information on corsets. Again I love the vids!!
Same. I was really sad when I got to that part. Especially since Zoey usually does the research. And the “comedic” music over the women doing sports in corsets? Like wtf was that? Why did she make fun of that..
@@adamas5925 Oh I know that. But here it was really badly used and from the general theme of the video sadly this was not the case. She has some other videos where she also bashes corsets so.. yea.
As someone who does wear historically accurate Edwardian corset regularly, they do not damage your body unless you tight lace. They mainly just move your fat around (so your waist looks more narrow from the front but wider from the side, they actually make my waist a little bigger despite seeming significantly smaller) and adds paddling (mainly to the hips) to make you appear to have an hour glass figure, while supporting your chest. Most people who have issues with corsets either are wear badly made ones, are not wearing a chemise under the corset (this helps avoid rubbing on the skin, similarly to wearing socks while wearing shoes), have not worn the corset in (again like new shoes, you have to wear a corset in so it fits you perfectly, just like if you wear new shoes for 12 hrs without wearing them in you'll hurt your feet), or are tight lacing (which historically, was very rare and only really done by some wealthy ladies). No hate to you or the rest of the video. But women wore corsets mainly as a form of chest support, and saying it was the male gaze forcing women to wear them really just enforces the idea women in the past were passive idiots who would put mens desires above their own basic needs and health (they didn't, especially to the extent some people like to push). And they definitely didn't cause miscarriages, this was a myth spread by men. Partly because the corset industry was overwhelming run by women and men would argue it was a form of lying to men (similar to some men saying makeup is women lying to them today), but also because male doctors couldn't actually workout why miscarriages were happening so just chose corsets, ignoring that there were corsets specifically made for pregnancy (Katherine Sewing has a video on this, as I have never been pregnant so can't comment on this) Women were able to be just as active and work in insanely difficult jobs while wearing corsets, just like women now are able to do the same while wearing bras. Personally I go on regularly hikes in winter in a corset and find it's better than a sports bra 🤷♀️ (tho I don't in summer as I have yet to make a summer corset made out of lighter material, but you definitely can wear a corset in the summer)
Rather than living our lives as happily as possible we are creating more and more difficulties for ourselves. Girls please wear, do, be whichever way you like. Life is already full of so many challenges.
Whether you wear flattering clothes or something more unflattering, if you exist in the frame of the male gaze it is perceived that you've worn it for them. Ideologically ALL that exists is for them and this is regardless of their favor towards the subjects' choices because guess what? We can't choose our way out of how the gaze perceives us. We don't become invisible to the male gaze by dressing outside of their wardrobe, we simply become hated. it is a *them* problem with an *us* consequence.
This exactly. Men think that everything a women does have to do with men. It's difficult for them to think that women do stuff without them in their thoughts at all
It’s interesting the approach to fashion by younger generations in the west. Everything is politicized, and there’s this belief that the answer to a lot of societal issues can be solved through consumption. Feeds the machine and the need to feel special at the same time, though the impact is questionable to me. The male gaze is simply a symptom of a much larger problem within power dynamics. And this seems like just another tik tok trend being popularized by individuals with alot of disposable income and free time. It’s another reiteration of attacking things commonly coded to be feminine in the name of feminism lol. I guess attacking women is the go to when the idea of attacking power dynamics seem to grand to strategize against. The infighting must get exhausting.
corsets were pretty normal just as now are bras. Most of the people swear by bras today as they are good for support bigger breast. The same was in history. Yes it was something that dresscode dictated but the same was for men. In this case you probably didn't went too historically correct. Karolina Zebrowska has explained it in many of her videos.
I think anybody blaming women for appealing to the male gaze is just the weirdest thing, utterly ironically antifeminist. Women dressing against it because they feel that's the right response to the gaze instead of the exclusionary desire to dress that way is appalling for the reasons touched upon here. It's honestly a phrase and phenomenon men should be more aware of than women. So I'd honestly go even further with it because at the beginning and end of the day: There's nothing wrong with wanting attention from men. There's nothing wrong with not wanting attention from men either. Women should dress how they choose without factoring in what they feel they "should" do, but that does include....maybe feeling sexy to men is intriguing. It's only a problem when men make sexiness a women's whole identity or purpose or value or are so socially unaware or actively antithetical to the idea of a woman existing harmoniously in their presence whilst dressed sexily that they stare extendedly, harass routinely and otherwise make more difficult a woman's life. And that's not the woman's fault for appealing to the male gaze whether accidentally, neutrally or purposely. I feel like this conversation always comes with a big qualifier that wanting to be attractive to men in the conventional way especially makes you part of the problem but this is just so wrong. Men are allowed to love attention from women and without feeling threatened, why does this not go both ways? Men should be able to find a woman attractive and act responsibly toward her and that's a conversation to have with men and hopefully they have amongst themselves.
@@elvis4868 Thank you, although I'm sure not in terms of the second part. Maybe, maybe not. But this stems from my inability to relate to people in these comments dressing solely for themselves yet also not feeling this makes me man's property all of a sudden. If it was socially acceptable I'd be lazing it up every single day and maybe dressing with my usual sense of style just because I feel like it twice a year? So why don't I just do that, hmm. So there's truth in the idea that I dress for other people men included (How I dress does come down to preference though, otherwise I'd wear makeup and trend chase too, which I do not), but this doesn't mean I need some sort of intervention or I invite being seen as a piece of meat. Some time after making this comment some old bastard drove slowly alongside me and sped away after extricating a greeting. In what world is this acceptable, do I deserve to feel unsafe or cheap for dressing decently no matter the reason? That same week a woman my age complimented me on my dress and whether it's from a man or a woman, these more respectful comments just make me happy and they're what I do it all for because I can't really feel good about myself no matter how hard I try, so seeing myself through other people's eyes helps. The idea that dressing solely for yourself is attaining better self-esteem for everybody just isn't true, and people who do this aren't the only ones who should get to feel good about how and why they dress. I do apologize for the novella reply, but now you will have a better idea if my video on the subject would do I guess.
@@bespectacledheroine7292 Hey thanks for the great reply, i wasn't expecting it but I'm really happy that you did. As a guy ik I won't really know how it's like to be a woman so I hope I'm not implying ik but once I walked by a mirror and just checked myself out in the mirror, a girl noticed and told her friends to check me out and I was wearing headphones so maybe they thought I couldn't hear what they were saying then some of them walked quickly in front of me to 'look back at their friends' but it was obvious what they were doing. I honestly felt happy that they thought I was good looking but I guess I didn't feel like I was just a piece of meat cuz society doesn't place men's value solely on their appearance and also I didn't feel unsafe so that helped, I suppose the male gaze is such a big deal to women because for a long time women were just supposed to look pretty for men and be a prize, things are changing but there are still antiquated and chauvinistic men or atleast men who overly objectify women, I would know because my friend is the kinda guy to walk around and point out attractive women to me like dude chill out, I don't understand why he has to look at so many pictures of attractive women on Instagram a day, I just don't understand the need, when I'm out in public sure I'll notice attractive women but I'm not going to stare or do anything I wouldn't to a man, I think it's a sense of entitlement and societal values that mold young men into feeling that entitlement towards women that makes them think it's OK to treat women like objects
I thought that you where joking when you started saying that corsets are painful and harm your rib cage. Saying that corsets are painful is the same as saying that bras are painful. Neither are true and corsets where actually better at supporting your chest and your spine, the only downside is they a corset has to be custom fit to your body, and as someone who has made/makes corsets they ARE more comfortable than bras if you know what your doing. The reasons actors complain is because 1: they weren’t made for the actor, or 2: they are laced to tight or 3: they weren’t seasoned (aka breaking it in and wearing it, just like you do with a new pair of shoes)
can we stop the evil corset myth already? jeez. it was the ultimate boob holder before the invention of bra. and it was made to fit you like a glove and support your chest more comfortably that any morden bra ever could. go watch some historian fashion researchers videos for a change
hey i understand that you’re frustrated that zoe was spreading misinformation, but i don’t think she meant to. most people have no idea about the truths unless they spend time researching. modern media feeds in thai narrative that they were horrible and so i completely understand how she thought that. it isn’t helpful to bring someone down if you want them to learn :)
@@youtubeaccount7172 sorry, i didnt intend to hurt zoe in any way. my comment is addressed to general public. its 2022 my dudes, get in, we are on our way to stopping calling corsets “an undergarment from hell” 😄
regardless of the intention of it's invention and original use, it's purpose evolved over the years into a method of binding the waist....and it's very design is the methodology behind the functioning of today's waist trainers. Most women do not use it for it's original intent.....so regardless, in the modern day it is impractical and dangerous for the current uses that it's advertised for. We have very advanced bras nowadays that do the job just fine.
@@chelsea_entropy but she only touched on the modern day use briefly. All of the misinformation was said while she talked about their historical use and while historical photos were on screen. No one would argue that in most cases modern corsets and waist trainers can be harmful but she was specifically talking about historically. No hate to Zoe but using false information to prove a point just makes your point look weak even if it's not
@@youtubeaccount7172 They aren't bringing Zoe down. It's completely reasonable to point out the wrong information someone is spreading through a channel with soo many subscribers. Yk people can believe her and spread that misinfo further so, that's a thoughtful thing to correct her. Moreover, she could have done better research and listen to knowledgeable people before talking about this :)
In cultures where its more accepted and normalized for women to dress more revealing the rate of sexualizing is also lower for instance in tribe women often dont wear anything to cover their breast; the breast arent sexualized and in countries where women cant show any part if their bodies everything is also sexualized. The thing is on tiktok people quickly make assumptions and spread those as what they think the truth us without thinking about what is actually is and means. So by starting to dress less naked and more typically masculine etc in order to avoid the male gaze, it actually gets worse.
I loved wearing feminine, cottage core and coquette-esque clothes but I always thought that it would attract unwanted male attention or people would not take me seriously, so I switched to like more dark academia and formal silhouettes. And now I don't feel like myself wearing either of them.
A corset is a shaped garment it gives you a shape by creating an illusion of a tinier waist with the help of padding not by tightening. Its for support like a bra it should and supposed to be comfortable when worn.
It’s ridiculous how people tell us to always having to please men, but then they tell us to stop begging for attention with our clothes. I hope the world changes and how we look doesn’t matter soon :c
@@BentaGan_Shorts a lot. My own parents have a different way to tell me this, like when I’m angry and yelling at anyone they tell me that boys should be rough and tough and girls should be soft and delicate, and they begin to mimic my yelling🤦♂️
idk i would like to dress differently than i do at the moment but i'm often not comfortable with it because of a lot of men. i love wearing tight or short clothes and sometimes cleavage because i personally feel really comfortable in my body and a lot of those pieces would suit me in my opinion. but when i do wear those kind of outfits then i often get catcalled, followed or just bothered by men. and it frustrates me because we all should be allowed to wear whatever we want to without having to feel unsafe.
Imagine a lady sitting in her car wearing a polo with a scarf and jeans WITH A MASK on and still receive "male glances". That was the day I realised clothing doesn't invite those creepy glances
me, literally with a tailored suit not showing AYTHING men in the street: oh hello... me: FACEPALM DISCLAIMER: I dont use suits to avoid men, I wear threm bc they are comfortable to walk and run (I live in the city)
Great points, but: The women in the 16th century example part, actually includes photos of people from the 1800s-early1900s. I think the most common image of old timey corsets that we have actually comes from the Victorian era (mid 1800s to 1901, at least in the context of England).
It's because only those type of corsets formed the body into an hourglass shape. In the 16th century, the corset was more cylindrical, and was rigid and straight. Many of the photos of women and corsets were also altered to accentuate the small waists. Bernadette Banner made an excellent video talking about that.
Why can't we just leave it be and let everybody wear whatever they like. There is no need to overanalyze who wears what. If it makes you happy and nobody is suffering then do it. I think these days, every trend that starts positive ends up with people tearing down other.
Zoe's videos are always so relaxing to watch. Her voice is really calm and I love it! I could binge watch her videos for days and would never get tired of them.
this is slander against the corsets. I OBJECT. if you talk to a good fashion historian, they'll tell you that a proper corset of that time, made to fit a specific person (not the badly mass-produced made ones ppl buy today) would be comfortable and might actually make you more comfortable since it could help support the weight of heavy garments/dresses. i mean, just look at those women doing active things in those photos! they're fine!!! now, a badly/poorly made one, or one that was made far too exaggerated (probably made for someone who had some kinda body dysmorphia like we see today with ppl who get surgery to remove rib cages and stuff) would definitely cause damage and mess with your ribcage. but the average one was fine! a lot of the stuff ppl say about corsets is not really backed up and is more sensationalized rumor
I think the trend should be Pov:you started dressing up for yourself and listening to your body And then people should just wear whatever they feel is most comfortable and best for them
The thing about the male gaze is I don’t think it’s meant to have to be a term that extends outside of the content we create. That said, when we turn life into content, I guess it’s kind of hard to tell the difference. Like Corsets - we view them a certain way because of how media informs us and how critique of that media evolves. Corsets weren’t invented by men and it was women not men that embraced them. The structure they provided and the shape they created for was something pleasing to women and there’s evidence that in the early adoption of them men basically thought they were weird and useless. It’s like saying Bras are for the male gaze. Like sure, what they were sexualized into, but in general? Originally? Not really. I feel like when we have this conversation we ignore that women just like things? Women like hourglass figures; women like symmetry; women like the appearance of breast; women like the look of modest clothing; women like short skirt; women like oversized jeans; _women like things_ . It’s a really chicken or the egg conversation whether you truly like something because you actually like the look of it or whether you like it because of the patriarchal society you live in but I feel like that’s something we can leave up to the women actually questioning themselves. I feel like someone puts together an outfit and think it looks cute and that’s where it ends, they shouldn’t have to be subject to others asking them “do you just wear stuff like that to impress guys? Why do you REALLY dress like that?”
corsetry is not misogynistic or harmful to health in any way (unless you're dressed by modern costume designers that don't know how to properly construct them) edit: *modern costume designers as in costume designers who happen to live in the modern age and aren't skilled in corsetry.
there are highly skilled modern corset makers who have perfected the older practices and may even make better corsets. but i understand you meant sewists who aren’t specifically skilled at corsetry.
@@RapidObsessor thank you! i feel like zoe unintentionally summoned both the Karolina Zebröwska and Bernadette Banner fans at the same time 😂 (idk how to spell karolina’s name correctly, sorry if it’s misspelt)
fr these people think everything is about men. i dress for me not for a man. i like tight fitting clothes bc it’s comfortable am i dressing for the male gaze absolutely not. i’m gay LOL if u think every girl who shows skin is dressing for a man that inherently misogynistic. not everything is about men.
I don’t think I dress for the “male gaze” at all even on dates or whatever, but I really love feminine/shape-defining dresses & skirts and I also love baggy pants and big blazers that make me feel more masculine
I think caring about anyone's opinion on how you dress can be annoying and damaging regardless of gender. When I wore tighter clothes (which I loved at the time) my parents would tell me I looked like a slut. Now that I wear looser fits that I feel more comfortable in they call me a grandma. I switched my style out of my own choice. This doesn't mean I might not bounce back to tighter clothing or a mix between the two. But I know that if you don't find strength within yourself to just be yourself, you will be at the mercy of stupid trends, perceptions and so called 'fashion rules'. If I want a man in my life, he better love me for the naked me and accept the styles I choose to express myself through. The key is to be comfortable and at peace with your own choices, regardless of the comments you receive.
No offense but the corset history part had a couple of fallacies in it: 1- corsets haven’t always been “hourglass shaped” in the 1700s stays, the predecessor of corsets, had a cone shaped curve less silhouette, and in the Edwardian period (1900s-1910s) the shape was more pigeon-like (full around the rib cage, flat elsewhere). 2- The main purpose of a corset wasn’t even to “cinch the waist” it was a tool to support the bust, corsets and stays were just old timey bras. (I apologize in advance for the grammar and spelling)
Usually I love your videos and I love the message in this one, but your section about corsets is seriously misinformed and spreading that misinformation. Corsets were only super uncomfortable if they weren't fitted to the person correctly (though most all were) or were tight laced which was extremely uncommon. They were basically just bras with back support and acting like they were these torture devices made by men to make women more appealing is just false.
I like it too however this video was not one of the educated ones. What she says about corsets are basically all lies. If you want to really know something about corsets you can watch Bernadette Banner or Karolina Zebrowska who made a specific video on how actually it was men who told us to hate corsets. ❤
Here is my opinion on this label (that nobody asked). I disagree with this trend because as zoe said, it's contradictory. What's wrong with wearing a short skirt or a tight dress? Even if it's not my style, I don't think that certain ways of dressing should be categorized for male gaze, and it must be remembered that wearing a short skirt or tight clothes (or whatever other) is not an invitation for men. Again, it seems like it's women who blame themselves for dressing "for men" instead of the men who learn that women don't dress for them. Everyone should dress freely without feeling any shame or guilt (tbh im scared that im off topic lol)
The way...... the way zoe expresses what she thinks...which i surprisingly love because it expands my thinking capacity of a simply issue..... exposing what lies beneath all those trends their pros and then their cons...i hate her so much for that....i hate how much change she bought to my mind... watching her videos make me feel a little more unrestricted to simply take another breath....
Advice: WEAR WHATEVER YOU WANT AND DONT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT OUTHER’S CLOTHING! Sometimes I feel judged by other women because I have an hourglass body shape (thanks mama and papa, love you ;3) and have a feminine fashion sense and get lectured about how I am oPpReSsEd like tf? Let me live lolol
Personally I love wearing clothes that are deemed revealing! It makes me feel good about myself and at the end of the day I show up and show out for me.❤️
I really love the message of the video I actually love to dress in thight and more feminine clothes and I hate when man have the nerve to say that I am dressing like that for atention or for other men. Because of that I research a lot about corsets and learned that corsets werent bad for our health but tight lacing was. Tight lacing is the practice of getting the corset that tight to the point of being difficult to breath but corsets were to give structure to the body even the working class had some tipe of corsets.
i’d like to include that there were athletic corsets as well, they had removed some unnecessary fabric from between the boning channels for breathability
At the end of the day we ALWAYS dress for other people. You may think it’s for yourself but why would u dress up in fancy clothes or more feminine clothes if its not for other people and what others think? We wear those clothes to be more appealing, sociable, and likable. The only time wear women will wear what they want is when your at home and theres no one watching you. And what we usually wear is comfortable clothes like sweat pants or oversized shirts.
I agree on this. People are just in denial. If we don't really care that much, we should just dress up at home instead. But, most don't. I personally would love to dress up at home but that's quite tiring. Compliments really boost people's self-esteem and there's nothing wrong with it. The fixation on this maybe is starting to annoy me. Otherwise, how would you know you looked great when nobody told you so or someone else says it's great and the society already agreed to it.
Some men are humans, some men are animals. It's the last category causing the problems. It's a shame, though, that animal men "force" women indirectly to change their dressing style. Women should be able to wear what they want.
@@invisiblerevolution No one said that. And you were clearly trying to insult women and trying to prove that both men and women can be animals. Guess what? No one said “only men” are animals. Why did you think you needed to reply with that when there was no reason to?
i've never dressed for the male gaze i wear what i like and feel comfortable wearing it doesn't matter if i'm in sweats or a tight dress if i feel comfy that's all that matters (unless it's a special occassion then blending in is also important)
I am so surprised that nobody thought that the clothes or style that come under male gaze will eventually change over time so no matter whatever u wear it's gonna come under it ! Why has nobody thought about wearing whatever the fuck u want FOR YOURSELF As someone who's not a woman but attracted to men person i know how hard it can be especially since women have more extra pressure to look good for men POWER TO U ALL
As a person who wears a corset and tightlaces, I can breathe just fine! I wear a corset for my posture and to smooth out my clothing, but the only reason why corsets caused discomfort and complications in the old age were because corsets were worn very early on in life (childhood/teens) where your body is still developing. Corsets that aren’t fit for the wearer will end up unbreathable or uncomfortable but anything that’s measured for you will work just fine. Waist trainers aren’t exactly the same as corsets either. Same concept, but different
I personally like wearing tight tops beacuse i feel most confident in a bit bigger jeans or pants which are not tight and in a tighter top. That's just my style that i feel the most confident in, i don't feel confident in baggy clothes. I think the male gaze is definetly a thing but i just like tight shirts and tops and i am wearing what in my opinion looks the best on me
Ah, yeah, revealing clothes. I actually own really pretty leather shorts, but they are kinda short and accentuate my pretty good figure. I love how I look in them, but jeez amount of cat calling I receive in them is just unbearable. One time some man on the street just walked behind me and tried to ask me out while he hadn't even seen my face yet. When I refused he got offended and actually took pictures of my bare legs in these shorts and walked away! So yeah, every time I put them on I really should consider how well I'm mentally right now and can I deal with this shit. It annoys me to no end
It was only in the 19th century that tight-lacing became a thing, making them uncomfortable. Before that they were literally a bra that also helped with back pain. They weren't supposed to be painful because they would be made to YOUR body and overtime it would mold to your body. I hate when people say corsets were bad when that was only in a 50 year period
Anyone who says clothing or any form of self adornment are NOT forms of communication clearly has no exposure to human history! Throughout ALL of our species' history, all around the world, we have communicated using fabric patterns and colors, elaborate hair braiding, jewelry, tattoos, footwear.... You name it, humans have been doing it for THOUSANDS of years to let others know who they are and where they come from. It's a major feature of our species' communication and behavior, and it's interesting as heck!!!
The male gaze isn't exclusively skimpy clothes either. When I had a lot of male friends, I used to never wear the things I wanted because every time I did, I was criticized. I felt pressured to stay to the same blue jeans and t-shirts to fit in when I desperately wanted to wear new things. I was too scared to even grow my nails longer than the tips of my fingers because I'd be criticized for being too girly. Now that I have new girl friends I stopped dressing for men and started wearing all the crop tops, shorts, skirts, cardigans, and nail polish I wanted. Looking in the mirror, I've really never been happier. You can dress for others, but never feel limited or trapped because of what other people think about you.
I actually thought that I was safe from the "male gaze" bc I dress like Rue from Euphoria (but make it baggier) but then I watched another video on the male gaze and in it there was that one quote that I will never forget- " You not appealing to a male fantasy is a male fantasy in itself. " We're never safe, never free from it...
I think what matters is intent. Are you dressing specifically to avoid the male gaze? Or are you just dressing how you want or at random. You can't be blamed for dressing for the male gaze if you unknowingly adhere to some gross fantasy of theirs after all
I don't think that the girls saying that they stopped dressing for the male gaze were demonising girls who wore revealing clothes, lots of them were still wearing revealing clothes after they 'stopped dressing for men', they were more saying that they developed their own sense of style or a more 'edgy' or 'artsy' style which guys might be more likely to make fun of or put off by. Really interesting video tho and I love ur channel :)
I say Dress for YOUR OWN GAZE! wear whatever makes you happy. who cares about the male gaze anyway. They still catcall you whenever you wear full covered clothing or mini clothing anyways. We as woman is the male gaze already 🤣 Wear whatever the fuck you want boys and gals. ❤️
I'm sorry, but you are wrong about corsets. You haven't done good enough research. Basically, corsets were back and breasts support. And most of negtive connotation came from men, who were against it. Check that polish historian chanel, she explained veery well.
I have to clear the misconception right here, because it’s killing me: Corsets we’re NOT torture devices that damaged Women’s organs. Back then they functioned as a bra, adding stability and a good posture all while giving a fashionable silhouette. They were made specifically for the wearer, which made them comfortable and not damaging. They were only tight laced in rare cases, which was an extreme. So please do your research before demonizing something you don’t understand :)
I love your point, but as a historical dress fan...... I just can't let the corset comments go. A well fitting corset is a support garment, just like a bra. An ill fitting corset would certainly be uncomfortable, but that doesn't mean corsets are oppressive (I'd recommend checking out Bernadette Banner's corsetry videos for more information. Or Abby Cox. Really there's a whole host of channels, but those are the two I've learned the most from). (edit: turns out like half the comments are about this. oop. I'll just mention though, for further clarity, that Bernadette Banner approaches the topic of corsetry as someone who wore a back brace for much of her life, and she compares the two)
I do not wear a lot of loose clothes however it’s not like I dress for anyone else. if I like the piece I will wear it for myself not for my boyfriend or not to look cute. I want to feel comfortable and if something short or tight makes me feel good about myself I will wear it.
I love you're vids, and I totally get the concept of this video, and I agree with almost all of it EXCEPT the corset thing. Deformed ribcages and organ shifting were not a thing, and they were worn more for support than figure, which is why they (technically stays, but they're constructed similarly) wear still worn in the regency period when you couldn't even see the natural waist. As long as your not tight lacing, which no one in their right minds would during everyday, they're actually pretty comfortable. (and they dong dig like bras do). In a weird way it feels similar to wearing a binder, you're just compressing your chest upwards instead of outwards. The fact that actresses are reportedly tight laced on historical set is completely ridiculous, and I absolutely agree that the "look" of a snatched waste is not worth that kind of discomfort. Waist trainers on the other hand, fuck those, the lack of structure offers no support, and they're just not cute in the slightest. Love your thoughts on this topic tho, you're vids always slap!!
I really like your videos but I hope you update informations about corset. Yes it makes you look hourglass but it's not harmful to body unless you tightlacing it which working class women didn't do.
It wasn't corsets that caused the health issue, it's thigh lasing caused the issues. And most of the people who talked about how bad the corset IS MEN, who had no idea what it was like to wear a corset. And corset today a mass produced unlike corset back then is custom fitted and made for the person who is wearing it. Most women at the time like to wear it because it gives them support. Btw Victorian "Photoshopped" their photos too. It's good to check out some different perspectives from dess historians.
I don’t even see why it would be bad for women to dress to appeal to men , that’s kind of how life works , attract , mate , die . I mean I think everyone should mainly dress for themselves first and actually enjoy their outfits before anything
I have a video on this on my channel, but it basically boils down to wear whatever you want, and it doesn't matter if you "dress for yourself" or to attract men. There's nothing morally wrong with wanting to be attractive to the people you're attracted to, its literally the reason we all exist (sex). I just wish other women would stop trying to control how women dress and moralizing them for wanting to look good (or male-gazey, or however you want to put it.)
I've always dressed for myself, from when I used to wear tight short dresses with fishnet stockings in my 20s to wearing loose trousers with crop tops and maxi dresses in my late 30s. Men being pleased by my look was never my problem. They can stare if they want. You're welcome sir!!!
i was reading the comments and my eyes turned into hearts.. love how people are talking about the disinformation about corsets!! also, loved the videooo
imma let the people who are better versed in historical fashion do the bulk of the job, which is explaining why the corset wasn't uncomfortable, dangerous or oppressive. i just wanna add, that to maybe not show pictures from the 19th century and early 20th century of women doing sports (which was very new and revolutionary at the time) while talking about the 16th century.
even if i know i’ll only be seeing girls that day i sometimes like dressing highly feminine and showing a bit of skin, i like my body and i feel best showing it off a bit.
Fun fact most people are wrong about corsets even back then you were told to wear one that’s comfortable and were made in many shapes and how people use them now aren’t how they were intended
hi!! i wanted to say that women in the past actually wore corsets as bras, they didn't actually wore them that tight and the only ones that did were models or actress :)
Thoughts on dressing AND not dressing for the male gaze?
Honestly, people should dress how they want. Other people's opinions shouldn't affect us.
Whether you wear flattering clothes or something more unflattering, if you exist in the frame of the male gaze it is perceived that you've worn it for them. Ideologically ALL that exists is for them and this is regardless of their favor towards the subjects' choices because guess what? We can't choose our way out of how the gaze perceives us. We don't become invisible to the male gaze by dressing outside of their wardrobe, we simply become hated.
it is a them problem with an us consequence.
I would just like to dress how I feel without being judged or assumptions being made 😭
I think people should dress for themselves and dress in what makes them feel good.
honestly wear whatever you want, whatever your style is, because fashion is such a creative space!!
i dont really like to limit myself based on male gaze or female gaze. i just dress how i feel. if i feel feminine, i’ll wear a dress, a skirt, or clothing that compliments my body shape. if i feel masculine, i’ll wear something looser, or something that makes my shoulders look bigger and stronger. i get gender euphoria looking at how certain people dress, and then i use them as inspiration for future outfits and clothing pieces.
why do we call ourselves progressive if we associate a woman with a dress and men with something comfortable that makes us appear stronger?
it's the same shit women have been dealing for ages with.
don't mind me, just ranting here
@@schmeterling i dont associate women with dresses and men with “clothes that look stronger” or whatever. i associate masculine and feminine with those terms. masculine and feminine can be applied to any gender, because they’re adjectives.
@@kokiiaa That is literally what you're doing! There's no one image as to how masculinity and femininity looks like. Why is femininity only just dresses and heels and masculine is loose track pants and shirts? You can wear stuff that make your shoulders look stronger and still be feminine like this whole femininity and masculinity energies or whatever is just dumb.
@@schmeterling Literally like this masculine and feminine thing is just stupid
@@0fficialselena__90 in my opinion, now masculine and feminine are based on traditional, but not necessary relevant to time, features. For example, look at traditional clothes. Men and women usually have differences in their traditional costumes, and those features are considered masculine or feminine in those cultures. Just like that, modern definition of masculine and feminine comes from western European traditional clothes (i think i don't need to explain why).
But these terms still don't determine your gender identity (however, they can help to epress it). You won't call a woman in a blazer with shoulder pads a man, same with a man in a floral blouse.
'Strong' and 'weak' in clothes is mostly about lines. A structured dress would look 'stronger' than a men's loose shirt.
I don't deny that or society still ties masculinity and femininity strictly to men and women, but i think we're on the slow but steady way to change that.
Hi, just a quick thing about corsets. As someone who actually wore one almost daily for a whole semester when I had back pain more often, they are actually super comfortable, I could even run a little in it when late for class. I still pull it out occasionally when the pain gets a bit much. Helps with posture and keeping upright. Mine is fitted to my body, and that really makes a difference. I had tried to use a generic back brace you could get from Walmart, but that was actually worse cause it wouldn't match my curves and would feel like it was crushing my ribs. As other have mentioned I think the problem with corsets comes with tight lacing and improperly fitted ones. I enjoyed the video otherwise, it's good content. Just wanted to throw in a personal anecdote that corsets aren't as bad as they are portrayed
for everyone interested in this topic, i recommend watching Karolina Żebrowska's Videos about corsets!
YESSS! so true.
yea i wish she did some research about corsets instead of using dramatized clips from movies :/
Thank you for the personal account, it’s always nice to read positive comments about corsets
Where did you get a fitted corset?
I would like to add that dressing to avoid male attention is still dressing for the male gaze. It also doesn’t work imo 🥴I got catcalled recently while wearing full length pants, long sleeve button down and a blazer. It’s almost like it doesn’t matter what you wear, because some men will objectify you no matter what.
Yes exactly! I have gotten sexualised whether im covered head to toe or wearing a crop top. It doesn’t matter. So I just wear whatever i want
Ikr it sucks and I wish people would understand this is not normal
I seems like individuals of this trend think it’s about looking “cute” and “sexy”, but it’s not about that at all. It’s about power.
Wearing sweatpants and a hoodie has no impact on avoiding the male gaze, just as they don’t protect individuals from assault.
Well, as a guy I can tell you that it doesn't matter what your wear, you can't stop the male hormones. If a guy is horny and disrespectful you will get catcalled no matter what
That's not the point tho. Everyone knows you will still get catcalled because humans are disgusting. The point is to start dressing how you would like and not show skin if you don't want to. Lots of girl wear "sexy" clothes even if they don't like them much just to get attention aka they dress for male gaze. That's how I understood it at least
Male gaze is not about clothes.
Male gaze is directed at women and their bodies.
You can be subjected to the male gaze no matter what you wear.
denial
@@JosiahMatthews Not really, why do u think that
@@phucbich7581 people make so many excuses to wear the most exposing clothing, wouldn’t you want to be viewed with more respect? The less you wear the less your respected for you naturally how you carry your self matters so much in how people view you if you want to dress as if you work on the corner go ahead, life is to short to worry what others think but hopefully in all choices you’ll be proud of how you were.
@@JosiahMatthews sounds like misogyny
@@JosiahMatthews the amount of clothing u wear has nothing to do with the amount of respect u deserve we all are human n unless you’ve done some bad we all deserve respect regardless of what we wear it doesn’t matter how people “naturally” see it or whatever
Why can’t we just wear what we want without concerning ourselves about what men think? “Not dressing for the male gaze” is doing the exact opposite of what people want it to do. Forget about men, I want to look good for myself.
Literally. This whole pov just tells me they are stuck in what men want.
As a man I agree. Dress beautifully so both you yourself and the men can appreciate and enjoy your beauty. No offence
True. lets not focus on those toxic shit and encourage people to dress how they like? This type of videos is like victim mentality for me tbh.
@@serenityssolace we don't care about men, get over it.
Fucking lie
hey giiiirl, while you raise up many interesting points about how the male gaze influences fashion and beauty standards, i have to point out the fact that the male gaze also plays a role in the demonisation of corsets. back in the days, corsets where made by women, for women and were used not only as a fashion statement, but also as means to help with back pains for example, and grumpy old men did anything in their power to bring down the work of these women in charge of the fashion industry.
Karolina Żebrowska (who specialises in fashion history) made an in depth video about the topic: "How Victorian Men Taught Us to Hate Corsets" if anyone is interested !
thanks for taking the time to read my rant lol and thank you for the hard work you put in your videos♥
i was searching for this comment thank you
Yes!! This!!!! I hate when false info is spread about corsets !! Thank you for posting this out 💕
I have never agreed with anything more!
YES! Men made women hate corsets!
yesss thank you for saying this 👏👏 men hated about anything women liked to wear before the 20th century!
I feel like the term "male gaze" was coined for how male movie makers were shooting movies, or how male writers use to describe women, and the tiktok and twitter essayists decided to apply it to regular women living their regular lives. Every single thing we do nowadays can and will be politicised, even by ourselves. That’s crazy.
It's the information age ✨
yes!! I have a video on my channel talking about this exact point. Its called Male Gaze Theory has Gone Too Far lol
The general idea to a certain degree is true but yeah social media has taken it too far.
EXACTLY👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Exactly?! And tiktok made it "everything that it's attractive to men" like wtf? We're humans, people will be attracted to each other
a few things:
karolina zebrowska made a video called "How Victorian Men Taught Us to Hate Corsets: The Biggest Lie in Fashion History"
(Which btw the title already says it but the corset doesn't have to do much with the male gaze and isn't as harmful as everyone thinks it was. It was worn by men too and for women it was the pre-bra option.)
also I started dressing more covered up and wearing baggier clothes because I don't like men looking me up and down, it's like, it's fun getting attention when you're interested too but not when 40y/o men do it.
if that wasn't an issue I would totally dress more revealing, like mini skirts or low rise jeans with a crop-top...
I once wore low rise jeans and a crop top (they weren't even that low but not high waisted) and a middle aged dude came up to me to ask how old I was and I wearing headphones, trying to pass him but he was like "I'm not gonna steal anything" I was 16 at the time I think.
don't get me wrong modest clothes are also beautiful
sooo what I wanted to say in the end - wear whatever you want/feel comfortable in
YES YES !! I highly recommend every one watching her video about corsets.. she has made a few to explain about corsets and the misconceptions regarding it !!
THANK YOU for pointing out the corset situation! There are way too many misconceptions about them
I commented something similar; it is tiring to see the corset portrayed incorrectly.
Your inputs about another yt video instead of real history documentation...
@@coletteleto I think both sides can have some truth to them, I'm just pointing it out because corsets have been portrayed in a negative light in the media a lot. Also I mentioned Karolina because she is someone who seems very interested in historical fashion and explains it better than I could and more into depth. I also don't care to do a full research do give you the sources, neither do I have to justify anything. Instead of writing what you wrote you could've linked some sources yourself and made a counter argument.
I don’t dress for the male gaze and I don’t dress for the female gaze I dress for my gaze and that’s that let girls do whatever they want without putting labels on what they do
exactly
as someone who dresses like in tarantino movies (black suit, white shirt) I feel ya XDD
PERIOD
We don't actually dress for ourselves, cause we live in this culture and had absorved it unconsciously, so, we won't be entirely free. The thing is to start questioning if it's really my choise to wear this or that way.
@@list283 Speak for yourself. I love my beautiful body and I love dressing it up in fine fabrics and admiring myself when I'm alone. I dress for myself.
I just wanted to add a lil something in regards to corsets. Historically, they weren't actually that bad. They were the everyday women's means of support that would also allow them to do what ever their every day labor called for. On the other hand, there was a practice called "tight lacing," and as the name suggests, it consisted of tying the laces of the corset insanely tight. Of course, that practice isn't good and in fact, the people of that time knew that it wasn't. And then there's also those sayings you hear of people being like, "oh their corsets were so tight that the Victorian women were constantly fainting!" I'm not even sure where that thought came about, but trying to find evidence of that occurring is incredibly difficult. And all the common women had so much work to do, it doesn't make sense for them to get the work done while simultaneously fainting.
Anywho, I just wanted to share that :)
Thanks for sharing this, very interesting
So I saw somewhere that fainting in the Victoran era was a symptom of "female hysteria", and that treatment for it was basically the early vibrat*rs, used to give women an org*sm. I don't remember what video it was (you can probably find something similar by looking up female hysteria in Victorian era here on UA-cam), but I do remember that my takeaway was something along the lines of "well if all I could do to be shown a good time in the Victorian era was pretend to faint, of course I'd blame it on the corset and fool the men into giving me proper treatment for my hysteria".
@@carlaquintero6493 Of course! The modern view of corsets and how they really were are drastically different. And I definitely don't blame anyone who does view them the way most people do in the 21st century because most people are never taught about how it actually was and just hear the horrors of how they supposedly were.
also, there was the fact that many of those tiny corseted waists we see in pictures were the result of the photoshop of that time plus the dressing (puff sleeves, voluminous skirts), which gives the illusion of a smaller waist.
corsets are the real mvp's for support of the jubblies & they are great for back support as well as core engagement during every day activies/work. a proper fitted corset did wonders for me as a student & waitress.
Hi beautiful :D
Historical Reminder : Corsets were part of undergarments and a small part of woman actually tied them very hard !
By the way…
Many actresses say that they felt discomfort at wearing them, because there are not shaped into their body figure.
Corsets can also help with back pain strengthening the abdomen and putting your organs back in place after giving birth
Yes! Thankyou for this 💕
@@rosamund_ You’re welcome ! 💗
Very glad someone said what I was thinking! Before what we know as corsets came along, structural garments were worn by women to improve their daily lives, not subject themselves to torture for ✨men✨ Not everything is about ✨men✨ ☺️
also depends on the time period, women in the 50s also wore corsets, but they were more of a fetish item (worn by burlesque performers and pin-up girls) or as a vanity piece explicitly used for shaping and to accentuate the body
Just wanted to say that -while I’m not an expert- historical corsets weren’t all that bad, many working women wore them as support, like back braces. They were really just long bras, and while they *could* cause damage, it was really only if you were wearing one not fitted to you, or tightened it too tight.
A lot of myths about the corset were incredibly exaggerated truths, corsets were popular during a time where “yellow journalism” this thing where newspapers messed with facts just to sell more, was very rampant.
Also, I think that corsets were originally created for men?
Edit: I agree with what you said about main issue of the male gaze, just had to be a bit nitpicky.
I just love how that old picture is always brought up to show what damage corsets could cause. I mean it is a literal drawing it has nothing to do with anatomy
@@galaxypumpkin also the fact that we never trust victorian doctors for anything but somehow use what they said about corsets as fact 😂
my friend told me the same a while ago, that it wasn't how it's portrayed so I think you are right with what you said
It was still a painful practice for many women. They were required to wear corsets, it was not an option.
I have scoliosis and my doctor recommended a corset.
It's so sad that we are taught to love ourselves if we are wanted by males. If a guys find a girl attractive, only then she's considered attractive. The things guys find pretty or attractive for girls become the beauty standard for females, for example, because boys find bigger chested girl hot, so it became a beauty standard. I hope soon all the girls and boys do things for themselves, not for others.
Edit: here, i don't mean that every men is like this and also, I don't mean only females suffer from this beauty standard, men do to. I just didn't mention it in the original comment because the video was addressing the problems faced by females.
🙌🙌
Isn't skinny the beauty standard? Every girl i know wants to be skinny & praises bella hadid & kendall Jenner for their bodies. Despite the fact that men don't like skinny bodies.
@@Zoe-nl1jn well, many men like skinny girls. As someone who was bullied for being thicc, i know. But if i truly say, it mainly depends at the crowd you are looking at. For example, men of color prefer thicker women. I live in India and men here prefer small, skinny delicate girls. Like many men like bodies of kardashians and many artist who are thicc, but on the other hand, many men consider those bodies not attractive and prefer slim or skinny women. It's not just with women tho, for men, the beauty standard is what women like, like bigger and larger bodies, or soft but tattooed guys and stuff. I hope you understand my point of view, thank you for sharing yours tho.
As a girl, you literally find guys who like your look behind every corner, unless you go into any extrem, like unhealty skinny or unhealty big.
But it's unfair to pretend that guys are the ones with the high unfair standards, all my life girls made fun of me for beeing skinnier then them while I never looked at any girl like she is to skinny or to big......
And then there is my fit tall Strong brother who gets girl after girl......sure you girls have the unfair beauty standard
@@raffmann6852 i agree. I don't know who created these beauty standard but women play a major role is promoting them.
I wanted to say that almost all women used to wear corsets but not for the sole purpose of getting an “hourglass” figure. Back then they didn’t use bras so corsets provided support. Even working class women used corsets. Also even when it was worn for fashion tight lacing wasn’t all that common and corsets were usually well fitted and tailored. To create an hourglass figure they would exaggerate the hips instead of cinching in the waist to an extreme extent. The literature about corsets back in the day was mostly written by men who viewed women as “vain” and “shallow” and would often over exaggerate the effects of corsets including claiming that it causes fainting spells and bone deformities. If you wear a corset correctly it is perfectly safe :)
they even had athletic corsets, with cutouts between the boning channels for breathability
I’m not particularly female, but i love dressing feminine a lot of the time. Then, the times i like to dress more masculine, it’s, “who are you dressing up for, huh?” I’ve learnt to just stop questioning myself through the eyes of our society, and wear, act, or behave the way *I* truly am, aspire to be, and need to be to thrive in this world.
Imma screen it
Wdym by not particularly female?
@@Rozes1999 yeah I'm confused by that too. Intersex maybe?
@@Rozes1999 i mean that i’m genderfluid, born female, and have feminine features. i guess ‘not particularly female’ wasn’t the correct wording.
@@mahfoumil_sfeir7326 why would you think that you're genderfluid? I am sorry I am very new with all these things so just curious
i hate term ''male gaze'' because lots of people use it wrong and now it just reinforces the idea that when you are feminine and sexy you exist only to gain male attention... i'm a lesbian who really likes makeup, dresses and heels and i hate that men thinks that i dress for them and girls think that i dress for men. also often fans of this term are just puritans who are scared and disgusted by women in ''revealing'' clothes.
Same here. As though men didn't already think that enough... we always hear how a girl is dressing for a guy's attention and all that bs. So tired of that... I just like to feel sexy in my clothes leave me alone.
Not the misinformation on corsets. I love your vids Zoe but pls don’t spread misinformation on corsets. They are actually good undergarments that supported women. The idea that they were bad came from men who wanted to take down the corset industry since it was an industry run by women. Also the famous actors who talk about how “horrible” a corset was is bc it wasn’t made and fitted correctly. There are many historical dress UA-cam channels that provide great information on corsets. Again I love the vids!!
bernadette banner is one of them, probably one of the more accurate and researched ones as well
Same. I was really sad when I got to that part. Especially since Zoey usually does the research. And the “comedic” music over the women doing sports in corsets? Like wtf was that? Why did she make fun of that..
@@klarapopilkova5791 comedic music is also used over bizarre and outrageous situations, not necessarily to make fun of them.
@@adamas5925 Oh I know that. But here it was really badly used and from the general theme of the video sadly this was not the case. She has some other videos where she also bashes corsets so.. yea.
false according to my spine doctor
As someone who does wear historically accurate Edwardian corset regularly, they do not damage your body unless you tight lace. They mainly just move your fat around (so your waist looks more narrow from the front but wider from the side, they actually make my waist a little bigger despite seeming significantly smaller) and adds paddling (mainly to the hips) to make you appear to have an hour glass figure, while supporting your chest.
Most people who have issues with corsets either are wear badly made ones, are not wearing a chemise under the corset (this helps avoid rubbing on the skin, similarly to wearing socks while wearing shoes), have not worn the corset in (again like new shoes, you have to wear a corset in so it fits you perfectly, just like if you wear new shoes for 12 hrs without wearing them in you'll hurt your feet), or are tight lacing (which historically, was very rare and only really done by some wealthy ladies).
No hate to you or the rest of the video. But women wore corsets mainly as a form of chest support, and saying it was the male gaze forcing women to wear them really just enforces the idea women in the past were passive idiots who would put mens desires above their own basic needs and health (they didn't, especially to the extent some people like to push). And they definitely didn't cause miscarriages, this was a myth spread by men. Partly because the corset industry was overwhelming run by women and men would argue it was a form of lying to men (similar to some men saying makeup is women lying to them today), but also because male doctors couldn't actually workout why miscarriages were happening so just chose corsets, ignoring that there were corsets specifically made for pregnancy (Katherine Sewing has a video on this, as I have never been pregnant so can't comment on this)
Women were able to be just as active and work in insanely difficult jobs while wearing corsets, just like women now are able to do the same while wearing bras. Personally I go on regularly hikes in winter in a corset and find it's better than a sports bra 🤷♀️ (tho I don't in summer as I have yet to make a summer corset made out of lighter material, but you definitely can wear a corset in the summer)
thank you for writing your comment, because you composed it a lot better than i could have ^^
I was hoping to find a comment like this! Great explanation. I want to have historically accurate corsets :s
@@WizardLvl24 same! i wanna wear historical dress too! what eras do you like the most?
Exactly what I was thinking! It's a shame corsets are mistaken as a from of female oppression, because it covers up how men demonized them
wrong according to my spine doctor and a gyno, reducing intra-abdominal space DOES crush the foetus , they also atrophy muscles
Rather than living our lives as happily as possible we are creating more and more difficulties for ourselves. Girls please wear, do, be whichever way you like. Life is already full of so many challenges.
Exactly 👏 👏 👏 😍😍😍 thank you
Whether you wear flattering clothes or something more unflattering, if you exist in the frame of the male gaze it is perceived that you've worn it for them. Ideologically ALL that exists is for them and this is regardless of their favor towards the subjects' choices because guess what? We can't choose our way out of how the gaze perceives us. We don't become invisible to the male gaze by dressing outside of their wardrobe, we simply become hated.
it is a *them* problem with an *us* consequence.
I’ve felt like this but could not word it as well as you just have ❤️
This exactly. Men think that everything a women does have to do with men. It's difficult for them to think that women do stuff without them in their thoughts at all
@@julieclancy9493 Im so sorry that you feel this too, its awful! :(
Exactly. It feels funny when someone says they are liberated from the male gaze because they never are.
It’s interesting the approach to fashion by younger generations in the west. Everything is politicized, and there’s this belief that the answer to a lot of societal issues can be solved through consumption.
Feeds the machine and the need to feel special at the same time, though the impact is questionable to me.
The male gaze is simply a symptom of a much larger problem within power dynamics.
And this seems like just another tik tok trend being popularized by individuals with alot of disposable income and free time. It’s another reiteration of attacking things commonly coded to be feminine in the name of feminism lol. I guess attacking women is the go to when the idea of attacking power dynamics seem to grand to strategize against. The infighting must get exhausting.
corsets were pretty normal just as now are bras. Most of the people swear by bras today as they are good for support bigger breast. The same was in history. Yes it was something that dresscode dictated but the same was for men.
In this case you probably didn't went too historically correct.
Karolina Zebrowska has explained it in many of her videos.
I think anybody blaming women for appealing to the male gaze is just the weirdest thing, utterly ironically antifeminist. Women dressing against it because they feel that's the right response to the gaze instead of the exclusionary desire to dress that way is appalling for the reasons touched upon here. It's honestly a phrase and phenomenon men should be more aware of than women. So I'd honestly go even further with it because at the beginning and end of the day: There's nothing wrong with wanting attention from men. There's nothing wrong with not wanting attention from men either. Women should dress how they choose without factoring in what they feel they "should" do, but that does include....maybe feeling sexy to men is intriguing.
It's only a problem when men make sexiness a women's whole identity or purpose or value or are so socially unaware or actively antithetical to the idea of a woman existing harmoniously in their presence whilst dressed sexily that they stare extendedly, harass routinely and otherwise make more difficult a woman's life. And that's not the woman's fault for appealing to the male gaze whether accidentally, neutrally or purposely. I feel like this conversation always comes with a big qualifier that wanting to be attractive to men in the conventional way especially makes you part of the problem but this is just so wrong. Men are allowed to love attention from women and without feeling threatened, why does this not go both ways? Men should be able to find a woman attractive and act responsibly toward her and that's a conversation to have with men and hopefully they have amongst themselves.
perfectly said
This is the best comment in this comment section and actually feels like it would make a better video than the video it is referencing
@@elvis4868 Thank you, although I'm sure not in terms of the second part. Maybe, maybe not. But this stems from my inability to relate to people in these comments dressing solely for themselves yet also not feeling this makes me man's property all of a sudden. If it was socially acceptable I'd be lazing it up every single day and maybe dressing with my usual sense of style just because I feel like it twice a year? So why don't I just do that, hmm. So there's truth in the idea that I dress for other people men included (How I dress does come down to preference though, otherwise I'd wear makeup and trend chase too, which I do not), but this doesn't mean I need some sort of intervention or I invite being seen as a piece of meat.
Some time after making this comment some old bastard drove slowly alongside me and sped away after extricating a greeting. In what world is this acceptable, do I deserve to feel unsafe or cheap for dressing decently no matter the reason? That same week a woman my age complimented me on my dress and whether it's from a man or a woman, these more respectful comments just make me happy and they're what I do it all for because I can't really feel good about myself no matter how hard I try, so seeing myself through other people's eyes helps. The idea that dressing solely for yourself is attaining better self-esteem for everybody just isn't true, and people who do this aren't the only ones who should get to feel good about how and why they dress.
I do apologize for the novella reply, but now you will have a better idea if my video on the subject would do I guess.
@@bespectacledheroine7292 Hey thanks for the great reply, i wasn't expecting it but I'm really happy that you did. As a guy ik I won't really know how it's like to be a woman so I hope I'm not implying ik but once I walked by a mirror and just checked myself out in the mirror, a girl noticed and told her friends to check me out and I was wearing headphones so maybe they thought I couldn't hear what they were saying then some of them walked quickly in front of me to 'look back at their friends' but it was obvious what they were doing. I honestly felt happy that they thought I was good looking but I guess I didn't feel like I was just a piece of meat cuz society doesn't place men's value solely on their appearance and also I didn't feel unsafe so that helped, I suppose the male gaze is such a big deal to women because for a long time women were just supposed to look pretty for men and be a prize, things are changing but there are still antiquated and chauvinistic men or atleast men who overly objectify women, I would know because my friend is the kinda guy to walk around and point out attractive women to me like dude chill out, I don't understand why he has to look at so many pictures of attractive women on Instagram a day, I just don't understand the need, when I'm out in public sure I'll notice attractive women but I'm not going to stare or do anything I wouldn't to a man, I think it's a sense of entitlement and societal values that mold young men into feeling that entitlement towards women that makes them think it's OK to treat women like objects
Well said
I thought that you where joking when you started saying that corsets are painful and harm your rib cage. Saying that corsets are painful is the same as saying that bras are painful. Neither are true and corsets where actually better at supporting your chest and your spine, the only downside is they a corset has to be custom fit to your body, and as someone who has made/makes corsets they ARE more comfortable than bras if you know what your doing. The reasons actors complain is because 1: they weren’t made for the actor, or 2: they are laced to tight or 3: they weren’t seasoned (aka breaking it in and wearing it, just like you do with a new pair of shoes)
wrong according to my spine doctor, stop trusting youtubers, the custom fit thing is also a myth there is NO good compression on the spinal cord, NONE
Dress for yourself. If you like the way it looks on you, wear it. I don't understand why things have become so complicated 😕
can we stop the evil corset myth already? jeez. it was the ultimate boob holder before the invention of bra. and it was made to fit you like a glove and support your chest more comfortably that any morden bra ever could. go watch some historian fashion researchers videos for a change
hey i understand that you’re frustrated that zoe was spreading misinformation, but i don’t think she meant to. most people have no idea about the truths unless they spend time researching. modern media feeds in thai narrative that they were horrible and so i completely understand how she thought that. it isn’t helpful to bring someone down if you want them to learn :)
@@youtubeaccount7172 sorry, i didnt intend to hurt zoe in any way. my comment is addressed to general public. its 2022 my dudes, get in, we are on our way to stopping calling corsets “an undergarment from hell” 😄
regardless of the intention of it's invention and original use, it's purpose evolved over the years into a method of binding the waist....and it's very design is the methodology behind the functioning of today's waist trainers. Most women do not use it for it's original intent.....so regardless, in the modern day it is impractical and dangerous for the current uses that it's advertised for. We have very advanced bras nowadays that do the job just fine.
@@chelsea_entropy but she only touched on the modern day use briefly. All of the misinformation was said while she talked about their historical use and while historical photos were on screen. No one would argue that in most cases modern corsets and waist trainers can be harmful but she was specifically talking about historically. No hate to Zoe but using false information to prove a point just makes your point look weak even if it's not
@@youtubeaccount7172 They aren't bringing Zoe down. It's completely reasonable to point out the wrong information someone is spreading through a channel with soo many subscribers. Yk people can believe her and spread that misinfo further so, that's a thoughtful thing to correct her. Moreover, she could have done better research and listen to knowledgeable people before talking about this :)
Loving all the comments in support of properly fitted corsets :)
In cultures where its more accepted and normalized for women to dress more revealing the rate of sexualizing is also lower for instance in tribe women often dont wear anything to cover their breast; the breast arent sexualized and in countries where women cant show any part if their bodies everything is also sexualized.
The thing is on tiktok people quickly make assumptions and spread those as what they think the truth us without thinking about what is actually is and means.
So by starting to dress less naked and more typically masculine etc in order to avoid the male gaze, it actually gets worse.
I loved wearing feminine, cottage core and coquette-esque clothes but I always thought that it would attract unwanted male attention or people would not take me seriously, so I switched to like more dark academia and formal silhouettes. And now I don't feel like myself wearing either of them.
A corset is a shaped garment it gives you a shape by creating an illusion of a tinier waist with the help of padding not by tightening. Its for support like a bra it should and supposed to be comfortable when worn.
Corseting is different from tight laciiiiiiinnnnnnngggg if you’re wearing a properly sized corset it will not be uncomfortable
It’s ridiculous how people tell us to always having to please men, but then they tell us to stop begging for attention with our clothes. I hope the world changes and how we look doesn’t matter soon :c
Do people (in general) really tell a girl to please a guy?
@@BentaGan_Shorts a lot. My own parents have a different way to tell me this, like when I’m angry and yelling at anyone they tell me that boys should be rough and tough and girls should be soft and delicate, and they begin to mimic my yelling🤦♂️
I love ur name 🤣
@@lulululu3584 tysm
@@BentaGan_Shorts We (woman) are literally raised by society to this function.
Leave it to Zoe to break down negative social norms 👏🏽🧡
idk i would like to dress differently than i do at the moment but i'm often not comfortable with it because of a lot of men. i love wearing tight or short clothes and sometimes cleavage because i personally feel really comfortable in my body and a lot of those pieces would suit me in my opinion. but when i do wear those kind of outfits then i often get catcalled, followed or just bothered by men. and it frustrates me because we all should be allowed to wear whatever we want to without having to feel unsafe.
Imagine a lady sitting in her car wearing a polo with a scarf and jeans WITH A MASK on and still receive "male glances". That was the day I realised clothing doesn't invite those creepy glances
me, literally with a tailored suit not showing AYTHING
men in the street: oh hello...
me: FACEPALM
DISCLAIMER: I dont use suits to avoid men, I wear threm bc they are comfortable to walk and run (I live in the city)
Great points, but:
The women in the 16th century example part, actually includes photos of people from the 1800s-early1900s.
I think the most common image of old timey corsets that we have actually comes from the Victorian era (mid 1800s to 1901, at least in the context of England).
It's because only those type of corsets formed the body into an hourglass shape. In the 16th century, the corset was more cylindrical, and was rigid and straight. Many of the photos of women and corsets were also altered to accentuate the small waists. Bernadette Banner made an excellent video talking about that.
Why can't we just leave it be and let everybody wear whatever they like. There is no need to overanalyze who wears what. If it makes you happy and nobody is suffering then do it. I think these days, every trend that starts positive ends up with people tearing down other.
Zoe's videos are always so relaxing to watch. Her voice is really calm and I love it! I could binge watch her videos for days and would never get tired of them.
this is slander against the corsets. I OBJECT. if you talk to a good fashion historian, they'll tell you that a proper corset of that time, made to fit a specific person (not the badly mass-produced made ones ppl buy today) would be comfortable and might actually make you more comfortable since it could help support the weight of heavy garments/dresses. i mean, just look at those women doing active things in those photos! they're fine!!!
now, a badly/poorly made one, or one that was made far too exaggerated (probably made for someone who had some kinda body dysmorphia like we see today with ppl who get surgery to remove rib cages and stuff) would definitely cause damage and mess with your ribcage. but the average one was fine! a lot of the stuff ppl say about corsets is not really backed up and is more sensationalized rumor
I think the trend should be
Pov:you started dressing up for yourself and listening to your body
And then people should just wear whatever they feel is most comfortable and best for them
Elle woods will for ever be the best example of NOT dressing for the male gaze 😍 an icon
The thing about the male gaze is I don’t think it’s meant to have to be a term that extends outside of the content we create. That said, when we turn life into content, I guess it’s kind of hard to tell the difference.
Like Corsets - we view them a certain way because of how media informs us and how critique of that media evolves. Corsets weren’t invented by men and it was women not men that embraced them. The structure they provided and the shape they created for was something pleasing to women and there’s evidence that in the early adoption of them men basically thought they were weird and useless. It’s like saying Bras are for the male gaze. Like sure, what they were sexualized into, but in general? Originally? Not really.
I feel like when we have this conversation we ignore that women just like things? Women like hourglass figures; women like symmetry; women like the appearance of breast; women like the look of modest clothing; women like short skirt; women like oversized jeans; _women like things_ . It’s a really chicken or the egg conversation whether you truly like something because you actually like the look of it or whether you like it because of the patriarchal society you live in but I feel like that’s something we can leave up to the women actually questioning themselves. I feel like someone puts together an outfit and think it looks cute and that’s where it ends, they shouldn’t have to be subject to others asking them “do you just wear stuff like that to impress guys? Why do you REALLY dress like that?”
corsetry is not misogynistic or harmful to health in any way (unless you're dressed by modern costume designers that don't know how to properly construct them)
edit: *modern costume designers as in costume designers who happen to live in the modern age and aren't skilled in corsetry.
there are highly skilled modern corset makers who have perfected the older practices and may even make better corsets.
but i understand you meant sewists who aren’t specifically skilled at corsetry.
@@EmmaJohnsonShenanigans yes! thank you for understanding! i've updated the language.
@@RapidObsessor thank you! i feel like zoe unintentionally summoned both the Karolina Zebröwska and Bernadette Banner fans at the same time 😂
(idk how to spell karolina’s name correctly, sorry if it’s misspelt)
@@EmmaJohnsonShenanigans Żebrowska
@@flaccid6pancake thank you 😅
corsets were like underwear they weren't wearing it for the male gaze
just because someone is wearing something tight doesn't mean its for the male gaze just let them wear what they want to wear
fr these people think everything is about men. i dress for me not for a man. i like tight fitting clothes bc it’s comfortable am i dressing for the male gaze absolutely not. i’m gay LOL if u think every girl who shows skin is dressing for a man that inherently misogynistic. not everything is about men.
I don’t think I dress for the “male gaze” at all even on dates or whatever, but I really love feminine/shape-defining dresses & skirts and I also love baggy pants and big blazers that make me feel more masculine
I think caring about anyone's opinion on how you dress can be annoying and damaging regardless of gender.
When I wore tighter clothes (which I loved at the time) my parents would tell me I looked like a slut.
Now that I wear looser fits that I feel more comfortable in they call me a grandma.
I switched my style out of my own choice. This doesn't mean I might not bounce back to tighter clothing or a mix between the two. But I know that if you don't find strength within yourself to just be yourself, you will be at the mercy of stupid trends, perceptions and so called 'fashion rules'.
If I want a man in my life, he better love me for the naked me and accept the styles I choose to express myself through.
The key is to be comfortable and at peace with your own choices, regardless of the comments you receive.
No offense but the corset history part had a couple of fallacies in it:
1- corsets haven’t always been “hourglass shaped” in the 1700s stays, the predecessor of corsets, had a cone shaped curve less silhouette, and in the Edwardian period (1900s-1910s) the shape was more pigeon-like (full around the rib cage, flat elsewhere).
2- The main purpose of a corset wasn’t even to “cinch the waist” it was a tool to support the bust, corsets and stays were just old timey bras.
(I apologize in advance for the grammar and spelling)
Usually I love your videos and I love the message in this one, but your section about corsets is seriously misinformed and spreading that misinformation. Corsets were only super uncomfortable if they weren't fitted to the person correctly (though most all were) or were tight laced which was extremely uncommon. They were basically just bras with back support and acting like they were these torture devices made by men to make women more appealing is just false.
Only we know if we're dressing for the "male gaze" or not. We can never judge another person according to their style or preferred fashion. 😃
can we stop spreading misinformation about corsets already?
👏👏👏
I love how educating Zoe’s videos are. but they are so simple and entertaining!
I like it too however this video was not one of the educated ones. What she says about corsets are basically all lies. If you want to really know something about corsets you can watch Bernadette Banner or Karolina Zebrowska who made a specific video on how actually it was men who told us to hate corsets. ❤
Here is my opinion on this label (that nobody asked). I disagree with this trend because as zoe said, it's contradictory. What's wrong with wearing a short skirt or a tight dress? Even if it's not my style, I don't think that certain ways of dressing should be categorized for male gaze, and it must be remembered that wearing a short skirt or tight clothes (or whatever other) is not an invitation for men. Again, it seems like it's women who blame themselves for dressing "for men" instead of the men who learn that women don't dress for them. Everyone should dress freely without feeling any shame or guilt (tbh im scared that im off topic lol)
The way...... the way zoe expresses what she thinks...which i surprisingly love because it expands my thinking capacity of a simply issue..... exposing what lies beneath all those trends their pros and then their cons...i hate her so much for that....i hate how much change she bought to my mind... watching her videos make me feel a little more unrestricted to simply take another breath....
Advice: WEAR WHATEVER YOU WANT AND DONT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT OUTHER’S CLOTHING! Sometimes I feel judged by other women because I have an hourglass body shape (thanks mama and papa, love you ;3) and have a feminine fashion sense and get lectured about how I am oPpReSsEd like tf? Let me live lolol
Personally I love wearing clothes that are deemed revealing! It makes me feel good about myself and at the end of the day I show up and show out for me.❤️
I really love the message of the video I actually love to dress in thight and more feminine clothes and I hate when man have the nerve to say that I am dressing like that for atention or for other men.
Because of that I research a lot about corsets and learned that corsets werent bad for our health but tight lacing was. Tight lacing is the practice of getting the corset that tight to the point of being difficult to breath but corsets were to give structure to the body even the working class had some tipe of corsets.
i’d like to include that there were athletic corsets as well, they had removed some unnecessary fabric from between the boning channels for breathability
At the end of the day we ALWAYS dress for other people. You may think it’s for yourself but why would u dress up in fancy clothes or more feminine clothes if its not for other people and what others think? We wear those clothes to be more appealing, sociable, and likable.
The only time wear women will wear what they want is when your at home and theres no one watching you. And what we usually wear is comfortable clothes like sweat pants or oversized shirts.
I agree on this. People are just in denial. If we don't really care that much, we should just dress up at home instead. But, most don't.
I personally would love to dress up at home but that's quite tiring.
Compliments really boost people's self-esteem and there's nothing wrong with it. The fixation on this maybe is starting to annoy me.
Otherwise, how would you know you looked great when nobody told you so or someone else says it's great and the society already agreed to it.
I REALLY NEEDED THIS VIDEO!! THANK YOU SO MUCH ZOE
Some men are humans, some men are animals. It's the last category causing the problems.
It's a shame, though, that animal men "force" women indirectly to change their dressing style.
Women should be able to wear what they want.
Exactly 👏
Are some women animals?
@@invisiblerevolution yeah but this video isn’t about that
@@boejiden9350
Yet funnily...
it's never a good time, to speak about women's toxicity is it????
@@invisiblerevolution No one said that. And you were clearly trying to insult women and trying to prove that both men and women can be animals. Guess what? No one said “only men” are animals. Why did you think you needed to reply with that when there was no reason to?
i've never dressed for the male gaze i wear what i like and feel comfortable wearing it doesn't matter if i'm in sweats or a tight dress if i feel comfy that's all that matters (unless it's a special occassion then blending in is also important)
I am so surprised that nobody thought that the clothes or style that come under male gaze will eventually change over time so no matter whatever u wear it's gonna come under it ! Why has nobody thought about wearing whatever the fuck u want FOR YOURSELF
As someone who's not a woman but attracted to men person i know how hard it can be especially since women have more extra pressure to look good for men POWER TO U ALL
U are literally giving them the power by changing your style just because u don't want to get away from male gaze don't do it wear whatever u want ❤️
As a person who wears a corset and tightlaces, I can breathe just fine!
I wear a corset for my posture and to smooth out my clothing, but the only reason why corsets caused discomfort and complications in the old age were because corsets were worn very early on in life (childhood/teens) where your body is still developing.
Corsets that aren’t fit for the wearer will end up unbreathable or uncomfortable but anything that’s measured for you will work just fine.
Waist trainers aren’t exactly the same as corsets either. Same concept, but different
Adding to the corset discourse because after the many videos and essays about how its not *BAD* people still say that it is 😩😩😩😩😩
I stopped dressing for my gaze
I personally like wearing tight tops beacuse i feel most confident in a bit bigger jeans or pants which are not tight and in a tighter top. That's just my style that i feel the most confident in, i don't feel confident in baggy clothes. I think the male gaze is definetly a thing but i just like tight shirts and tops and i am wearing what in my opinion looks the best on me
Ah, yeah, revealing clothes. I actually own really pretty leather shorts, but they are kinda short and accentuate my pretty good figure. I love how I look in them, but jeez amount of cat calling I receive in them is just unbearable. One time some man on the street just walked behind me and tried to ask me out while he hadn't even seen my face yet. When I refused he got offended and actually took pictures of my bare legs in these shorts and walked away! So yeah, every time I put them on I really should consider how well I'm mentally right now and can I deal with this shit. It annoys me to no end
It was only in the 19th century that tight-lacing became a thing, making them uncomfortable. Before that they were literally a bra that also helped with back pain. They weren't supposed to be painful because they would be made to YOUR body and overtime it would mold to your body. I hate when people say corsets were bad when that was only in a 50 year period
love your vids regarding gender differences and how we subconsciously subject our actions towards each other
Anyone who says clothing or any form of self adornment are NOT forms of communication clearly has no exposure to human history! Throughout ALL of our species' history, all around the world, we have communicated using fabric patterns and colors, elaborate hair braiding, jewelry, tattoos, footwear.... You name it, humans have been doing it for THOUSANDS of years to let others know who they are and where they come from. It's a major feature of our species' communication and behavior, and it's interesting as heck!!!
The male gaze isn't exclusively skimpy clothes either. When I had a lot of male friends, I used to never wear the things I wanted because every time I did, I was criticized. I felt pressured to stay to the same blue jeans and t-shirts to fit in when I desperately wanted to wear new things. I was too scared to even grow my nails longer than the tips of my fingers because I'd be criticized for being too girly. Now that I have new girl friends I stopped dressing for men and started wearing all the crop tops, shorts, skirts, cardigans, and nail polish I wanted. Looking in the mirror, I've really never been happier. You can dress for others, but never feel limited or trapped because of what other people think about you.
exactly the same happened to my friend!! she dresses so fun now that she let people like that go
I actually thought that I was safe from the "male gaze" bc I dress like Rue from Euphoria (but make it baggier) but then I watched another video on the male gaze and in it there was that one quote that I will never forget- " You not appealing to a male fantasy is a male fantasy in itself. " We're never safe, never free from it...
Girl this not true. Most men are not into tomboys.
@@gb917 this is one of my insecurities I need to get the hell over lmao
I think what matters is intent. Are you dressing specifically to avoid the male gaze? Or are you just dressing how you want or at random. You can't be blamed for dressing for the male gaze if you unknowingly adhere to some gross fantasy of theirs after all
@@gb917 Damn girlie, ok tell that to all the men who have catcalled me or been creepy while I'm just walkin in my slacky outfit.🤷♀
I don't think that the girls saying that they stopped dressing for the male gaze were demonising girls who wore revealing clothes, lots of them were still wearing revealing clothes after they 'stopped dressing for men', they were more saying that they developed their own sense of style or a more 'edgy' or 'artsy' style which guys might be more likely to make fun of or put off by. Really interesting video tho and I love ur channel :)
I say Dress for YOUR OWN GAZE! wear whatever makes you happy. who cares about the male gaze anyway. They still catcall you whenever you wear full covered clothing or mini clothing anyways. We as woman is the male gaze already 🤣 Wear whatever the fuck you want boys and gals. ❤️
anyways i only dress up so i can get compliments from my girlfriends and not from men. my bf for instance dont know shit about fashion so yeah 🤣
I'm sorry, but you are wrong about corsets. You haven't done good enough research. Basically, corsets were back and breasts support. And most of negtive connotation came from men, who were against it. Check that polish historian chanel, she explained veery well.
she's @karolina zebrowska (for the people who wanna check her content out)
I have to clear the misconception right here, because it’s killing me:
Corsets we’re NOT torture devices that damaged Women’s organs. Back then they functioned as a bra, adding stability and a good posture all while giving a fashionable silhouette. They were made specifically for the wearer, which made them comfortable and not damaging.
They were only tight laced in rare cases, which was an extreme.
So please do your research before demonizing something you don’t understand :)
I love your point, but as a historical dress fan...... I just can't let the corset comments go. A well fitting corset is a support garment, just like a bra. An ill fitting corset would certainly be uncomfortable, but that doesn't mean corsets are oppressive (I'd recommend checking out Bernadette Banner's corsetry videos for more information. Or Abby Cox. Really there's a whole host of channels, but those are the two I've learned the most from).
(edit: turns out like half the comments are about this. oop. I'll just mention though, for further clarity, that Bernadette Banner approaches the topic of corsetry as someone who wore a back brace for much of her life, and she compares the two)
I do not wear a lot of loose clothes however it’s not like I dress for anyone else. if I like the piece I will wear it for myself not for my boyfriend or not to look cute. I want to feel comfortable and if something short or tight makes me feel good about myself I will wear it.
ah yes the 16th century *19th/20th century photos with clown music*
GURL YOU NEEDD TO START A PODCAST!!!💗💗
I love you're vids, and I totally get the concept of this video, and I agree with almost all of it EXCEPT the corset thing. Deformed ribcages and organ shifting were not a thing, and they were worn more for support than figure, which is why they (technically stays, but they're constructed similarly) wear still worn in the regency period when you couldn't even see the natural waist. As long as your not tight lacing, which no one in their right minds would during everyday, they're actually pretty comfortable. (and they dong dig like bras do). In a weird way it feels similar to wearing a binder, you're just compressing your chest upwards instead of outwards. The fact that actresses are reportedly tight laced on historical set is completely ridiculous, and I absolutely agree that the "look" of a snatched waste is not worth that kind of discomfort. Waist trainers on the other hand, fuck those, the lack of structure offers no support, and they're just not cute in the slightest. Love your thoughts on this topic tho, you're vids always slap!!
Why was it told a certain way for so long in terms that corsets were used to deform a rib cage. How did it get dubunked up until now??
I really like your videos but I hope you update informations about corset. Yes it makes you look hourglass but it's not harmful to body unless you tightlacing it which working class women didn't do.
It wasn't corsets that caused the health issue, it's thigh lasing caused the issues. And most of the people who talked about how bad the corset IS MEN, who had no idea what it was like to wear a corset. And corset today a mass produced unlike corset back then is custom fitted and made for the person who is wearing it. Most women at the time like to wear it because it gives them support. Btw Victorian "Photoshopped" their photos too. It's good to check out some different perspectives from dess historians.
I don’t even see why it would be bad for women to dress to appeal to men , that’s kind of how life works , attract , mate , die . I mean I think everyone should mainly dress for themselves first and actually enjoy their outfits before anything
I have a video on this on my channel, but it basically boils down to wear whatever you want, and it doesn't matter if you "dress for yourself" or to attract men. There's nothing morally wrong with wanting to be attractive to the people you're attracted to, its literally the reason we all exist (sex). I just wish other women would stop trying to control how women dress and moralizing them for wanting to look good (or male-gazey, or however you want to put it.)
I'm a dude but trust me, we will find literally ANYTHING attractive as long as you're fit and have good skincare, the basics.
I've always dressed for myself, from when I used to wear tight short dresses with fishnet stockings in my 20s to wearing loose trousers with crop tops and maxi dresses in my late 30s. Men being pleased by my look was never my problem. They can stare if they want. You're welcome sir!!!
i was reading the comments and my eyes turned into hearts.. love how people are talking about the disinformation about corsets!! also, loved the videooo
Maybe do research on corsets before you shame on them first.
Corsets if not worn properly are really bad for your health, but that is not by design, please check out Bernadette Banner's videos on this thank you.
imma let the people who are better versed in historical fashion do the bulk of the job, which is explaining why the corset wasn't uncomfortable, dangerous or oppressive. i just wanna add, that to maybe not show pictures from the 19th century and early 20th century of women doing sports (which was very new and revolutionary at the time) while talking about the 16th century.
even if i know i’ll only be seeing girls that day i sometimes like dressing highly feminine and showing a bit of skin, i like my body and i feel best showing it off a bit.
I recommend to see Karolina Żebrowska's youtube video about corsets
Dress in what u feel comfortable in and not to please any gaze
after only watching the first two minutes I can already say that I absolutely love this video ❤️
Fun fact most people are wrong about corsets even back then you were told to wear one that’s comfortable and were made in many shapes and how people use them now aren’t how they were intended
I have a video that explains it better
hi!! i wanted to say that women in the past actually wore corsets as bras, they didn't actually wore them that tight and the only ones that did were models or actress :)
I honestly don't really care about "feminine" or "masculine" clothing style I just Wear loose tees if I feel lazy and cute laces if I feel fancy
Giirl, you're really still going on about the "corsets are evil" Narrative? They were literally just the first bras
Imagine if we do a 180: "pov you started dressing for the male gaze"