TOLKIEN EXPERT Talks Rings Of Power, Black Dwarves, +MORE | KnewBettaDoBetta | Luke and Friends Ep 6
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- Joining me today is Tolkien Superfan KNEWBETTADOBETTA to talk All Things Lord of the Rings!
Find his content here!
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Conteact me: Paronmedia@outlook.com
Aragorn is described as "pale":
"Frodo found that Strider was now looking at him, as if he had heard or guessed all that had been said. Presently, with a wave of his hand and a nod, he invited Frodo to come over and sit by him. As Frodo drew near he threw back his hood, showing a shaggy head of dark hair flecked with grey, and in a pale stern face a pair of keen grey eyes."
Elves "fair of skin":
"Elves has been used to translate both Quendi, ‘the speakers’, the High-elven name of all their kind, and Eldar [...] They were a race high and beautiful, the older Children of the world, and among them the Eldar were as kings, who now are gone: the People of the Great Journey, the People of the Stars. They were tall, fair of skin and grey-eyed, though their locks were dark, save in the golden house of Finarfin..."
Fair means white/pale complexion.
Some Hobbits "browner of skin":
"Before the crossing of the mountains the Hobbits had already become divided into three somewhat different breeds: Harfoots, Stoors, and Fallohides. The Harfoots were browner of skin, smaller, and shorter, and they were beardless and bootless; their hands and feet were neat and nimble; and they preferred highlands and hillsides. The Stoors were broader, heavier in build; their feet and hands were larger; and they preferred flat lands and riversides. The Fallohides were fairer of skin and also of hair, and they were taller and slimmer than the others; they were lovers of trees and of woodlands."
Fairer here refers to complexion as well.
All quotes from LotR
Yeah like I said my mental picture of Aragon and memory of the text could have been HEAVILY influenced by the animated film. Thanks for checking out the video!
@@LukeParon cmon Stephen king audiobook
Yep!!!! This is propaganda and people do read , he misunderstood and definitely didn’t listen to Tolkien on the old radio shows
@@jimlahey749 You hear that Rander? That's the whispering winds of shit! :p Miss ya Jim, RIP
@@LukeParon You’re joking right? That’s the equivalent of saying, “well my vision of the characters from Mulan were heavily influenced by the Disney film.
Man I wish I could have conversations where names like Maeglin and Turgon get tossed around because everybody knows what's up with Gondolin. Ha.
This guy doesn't know English History. Can he find me the Black ruler of Britain who built Londonium? All I'm aware of is Septimus Severus who was Half North African and North Africans being stationed at Hadrians wall in the 2nd Century.
His justification for having diverse Elves and dwarfs is just "well it's never mentioned but it doesn't explicitly say they didn't exist!!!"
Here's why this take is stupid and how you should reflect on that stupidity and possibly grow. Tolkeins legendarium doesn't reflect a cultural history, it reflects an indigenous legend or religion. Every major religion that has had a migration or two has artistic representations that vary from region of adoption to region of adoption. The artistic representations of those stories and figures change. Sometimes dramatically. These stories don't reflect "the history of great brittain" in the 2nd age, the map of arda represents an area roughly the size of Europe Eurasia and parts of North Africa. You are wrong.
Look at the origins of the indo European religions, how they effected a vast region of the world and inspired Norse and Hindu origins. Don't look too deep, you will find some nazi shit, and some Hindu nationalist shit too. But there is some truth to it. Something that inspired the majority of world religion.
@@SAGERUNE wow no shit. I'm aware of the Yamnayans and Indo-European migrations. I was referring to his comments about English history exclusively.
I applaud you for taking the historical perspective, but the question can be specifically answered by was written in the books about what the elves looked like.
If you like to be fancy, the fact that the elven race as well as the dwarves were born in star light before the existence of the sun. Their skin would have very low melanin. Meaning they would be white, really white.
In all honesty this topic is on the back on my mind considering the other blatant offensives that have overall prematurely destroyed the show. If you want it to be like lotr, you have to take what Tolkien wrote into consideration otherwise this is not lotr. It is merely a shell of it and a whisper in the wind. It's pulling a dead man out of a grave and saying he is alive. Lotr, in this case, is merely a face shown to make money and nothing more. A lure of temptation offering power and solitude that it is truly Tolkien, but alas do the hands of evil offer gifts to bring the good at heart astray. Do not take it as your own for what it does to the heart can only be cured by a journey to mystical valinor which we do not possess.
@@joshuaworral5857 Since they were wholly created instead of evolving, they could be any color. I don’t think evolution has a place in Middle-earth.
Great conversation!
And Gandalf looked upon Sting and noticed the blue glow "Orcs are close...y'know what I'm saying"
Knowbetta has the best outlook on the internet for this fandom and this show.
No he doesn’t. Bro is bought and paid for
i was more asking why the black dwarf woman lacked a beard then her skin color
Beards for dwarf woman is more Peter Jackson than Tolkien.
@@wpsam52 Hi there :) _it was said by Gimli that there are few dwarf women. They are in voice and appearance so like to the dwarf men that they eyes and ears of other people cannot tell them apart_ Return of the King Appendice A
_the Naugrim (dwarves) were, as ever, strong in the arm and stout in the leg, and their beards were long. Indeed this strangeness they have that no Man nor Elf has ever seen a beardless Dwarf - unless he were shaven in mockery and would be more like to die of shame than of many other hurts that would seem more deadly. For the Naugrim have beards _*_BOTH MALE AND FEMALE ALIKE_*_ from the beginning of their lives; nor can their women folk be discerned by those of other race be it in feature or gait or in voice._
History of Middle Earth vol 11 War of the Jewels :)
@Darg - for some reason they have disregarded so many aspects of the lore that her lacking a beard is one of the _least_ surprising aspects to me :c For some reason they have cast an old man with wrinkles and jowls to play Celebrimbor (the elf who forged the rings for Sauron) despite elves being described as ageless, and only growing more beautiful as time passes, many, many times throughout all the texts, including the texts that Amazon has the rights to. This is such a basic and widely known aspect of the lore that I cannot begin to understand why they'd be driven to change it? There are many other issues of course, but for some reason that one in particular seemed particularly grievous to me.
While Jackson's adaptations also had flaws, he'd actually initially included a lot of footage of dwarf women with beards per Tolkien's description of them having beards. But for some reason the majority of the footage didn't make it into the final films :c
Here's how you can tell if a person claiming to be a Tolkien expert in 2022 is for real:
They're not.
He never claimed to be. I did, for algorithmic purposes. He only ever claimed to be a superfan and frequent reader.
@@LukeParon the word Superfan may potentially have also spiked the algorithm given the controversy over Amazon's 'superfan' videos (ie interviews with social media influencers who seem to have never read the books or even watched Jackson's movies) :D
I've been immersed within Tolkien lore since my early childhood, would fall asleep listening to The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings on audio cassette, and now in my 30s still listen to the audiobooks and read the books regularly, including Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales. I own the Atlas of Middle Earth and the histories etc. HOWEVER I am still constantly learning things about Middle Earth I was unaware of :o
And I have seen even _actual_ Tolkien scholars (official PHD holders) making very basic mistakes in interviews discussing the lore etc. What I'm getting at is that Tolkien's lore is so vast and all-encompassing that it would probably take a lifetime to fully understand every aspect of it. I have no idea how he managed to write so much - he also worked full-time and fought in (at the time) the most horrific war the world had ever seen :o He's a total badass ^_^
It's always interesting to hear what other fans have to say though of course, it's just quite mind-bending as you slowly discover how much there is still to learn even after decades of being a hardcore fan! :D
#DamageControl
Tolkien wrote it for the Anglo Saxon people PERIOD. No ifs, ands, or buts. No political agendas. The lore was for us of Anglo descent
"for" is not the right word here. He didn't write it "for" anyone, he wrote it ABOUT them.
No, he really did write it as a mythology for Anglo-Saxons.
@@anon-yw4wd Yeah but not really, it was more-so that it's about them. Tolkien wrote his books "FOR" literally anybody that would buy them.
@ABurntMuffin - Tolkeins mythology was literally written as a substitute for Anglo-Saxon and Briton mythology, which he felt was missing a lot in comparison to the Nordic because of the Prose and Poetic Eddas, which are more complete vision. He wanted to "fill im the blanks" as it were.
Saying otherwise is disingenuous. The only people in his mind were British, and by way of other groups in the stories, Northern Europeans. How do I know this? I know this because Tolkein said it plainly.
@@ABurntMuffin read his letters. He explicitly states he is creating a mythology for the English in Britain. Stop trying to deconstruct everything..
Tolkien expert… sure 🙄🙄🙄… even his history is off
He sure didn’t listen to the old radio shows when at least 10 different times he was asked if there were any black elves … he very plainly said this was a mirror of ancient European culture, I have no animosity what so ever of those beautiful people but my book is based on European ancient culture end quote
@@davemathis4215 Absolutely sir, and that doesn’t make you and I racists in any sort of way. Many uneducated people nowadays are conclusive to when they hear words like, Black, Dark, Swarthy,etc. in European folklore. For instance, in Norse mythology Dwarves or Swarthy Elves are often described as black BUT WAIT, when they say black they’re are not talking in the sense of a black skinned individual from Africa, they are talking about black as in black as ink or shadows which have a sort of ominous or corpse like quality. Indeed the Black skinned peoples of Africa DO have a rich and beautiful history, and it’s not a bad thing to accept there are variations of people in this wonderful world we live in, we don’t need to be clones, let’s all celebrate our cultures independently but also respectfully.
@@tylerbrubaker6642 it’s the modern educational system, they have changed definitions so much and English language been slanged to the point this younger generations are giving to much modern context to words like dark or brown and just stretching it to fit an agenda and ignorant or purposely subverting what the author himself explained a million times on live Radio you can listen to them anytime I think they are even on UA-cam but I heard them live back in the day he very clearly outlined exactly what elves were along with all the other races that s why he knew the rich people would try to change his work after he died and that’s why he did all those recorded radio shows there is no wiggle room they are trying to destroy his work for some reason, I read Tolkien to enjoy ancient European culture because I like other cultures stories besides mine ,I watch old kung fu movies to enjoy that culture ect , ect and it’s not racist
@@davemathis4215 Indeed! Oh yes,many of them including interviews from the 50’s and 60’s are on UA-cam. I love stories of feudal Japan but I don’t see any reason to appropriate upon that culture with European peoples and poison such a beautiful culture because of agenda or private feeling.
KnewBettaDoBetta is awesome!
Whenever I hear black people call themselves 'people of color', I really don't want to hear anything else they have to say.
This black man knows so much about LOTR, except how to respect Tolkein's work.
Dude this comment is so fucked up on like multiple levels lmfaooooo. Everyone else here is disagreeing but not a single person brought race into into so disrespectfully. Like WOW. How does the way someone choose to describe their racial identity Invalidate their point?
@@LukeParonbecause they don’t even know they’re own history. “Coloured people” was literally used as discriminatory language during the Jim Crow era. If you don’t know your own history how could you be expected to know the story of Tolkien and his influences. You’re a clown and knewbettadobetta (who blocks people on tik tok for disproving them) is a bought and payed for fraud
I hate that the algorithm thinks i do or should want to watch this clickbaity bullshit. I've been avoiding anything to do with the amazon lord of the rings like the plague. I don't care that there's black this or black that, I just don't want to watch it because I know it will be crap. It will be crap because everything these days is crap, I truly believe the diversity thing is just shoe horned in to these 're-imaginings' of classic IP's so that when it inevitably is crap because of bad writing etc they can cover their arses by blaming 'toxic fans'. You will never have good original fantasy or sci fi IPs because everything has to be a guaranteed hit because all that matters is some mega corps stock. Current modern global economics has ruined everything including movies, videogames and TV which are meant to be the good things about a free-market: the people get what they want. Well apparently not anymore. This will be utter dog poo just like all the new starwars crap.
First of all, not click bait. This is a level headed discussion about everything in the title from an extremely knowledgeable Tolkein superfan.
2nd of all, you should watch more movies outside the hollywood sphere of you want good movies. Hollywood is a factory, of course they're factory produced. Outside of hoywood and in the foreign film sphere there are incredible films being made.
Some fantasy reccomendations for you though are THE GREEN KNIGHT and THE NORTHMAN.
Also only about 20 mins of this discussion is about Amazon. All the rest is about the books, the nature of adaptation, and Jackson's films.
@@LukeParon I didn't watch your video, I just don't know why it's recommended to me. I'm sure it's full of wonderful insightful commentary. The point I'm making is Amazon lotr is going to be garbage precisely because as you say it's hollywood. I'm not a huge cinefile but I don't watch much hollywood stuff, you must understand where I'm coming from, not mad at you just youtube. goodluck with it all mate.
Watch out Mellon. You’re speaking the truth. People don’t like that.
What a joke
"Yes sir, I do know what you are saying. You don't have to keep asking."
I kept my love of Tolkien to myself growing up. Did that make me a Grima Wormtongue? Well, it sure as Udûn didn't make me Beren.
I honestly couldn't give a fuck about black dwarves, because honestly of course dwarves could have varying features, but what bothers me is the rest of the show that is completely unfaithful and dismissive of the source material to the point of feeling resentful.
How did you see the show already? Would love an early screening link if you have one :)
@@LukeParon I mean just judging by the press and interviews on top of leaked props and images it seems like the people involved in the show don't care about LOTR proper and are basically hijacking it to tell some generic fantasy story. I foresee this turning out similarly to the Halo show.
I don't exactly have high hopes for it either. Still will be watching day one haha
@@LukeParon I meant generic not genetic lol. I'm going to wait and see what my friend say before I commit to a subscription.
So awesome you've seen all 5 seasons! Do you have a time machine?
"I don't know why hateful people spend so much time spouting negativity at things that they hate!"
*Spends over an hour ranting about people who dislike modern-day, poltically motivated deviations from Tolkien lore*
Nice to know you didn't watch the video. We spoke about Amazon's lord of the rings for about 20 minutes. The rest is about Peter Jackson's films, Tolkeins Prose, other authors and movies.
Nice try man.
@@LukeParon And what's your excuse for the first 20 minutes then?
Or for listing this man as a "Tolkien Expert" when you even admitted in another comment it was just a cheap trick to game the algorithm? You want to know the difference between the "haters" and you (besides the fact that they don't have to use algorithm tricks to get clicks)? They insult bad writing. You insult people. The fans. And you certainly aren't winning any over with this type of click bait trash. Do better.
Stop rewriting genius tier material.
You are not more intelligent than Tolkein.
The Rings of Power shits on Tolkein.
Do you feel the same about Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings who made hundreds of changes ranging from minor to major?
Jackson kept the to the overall spirit of the lore. The changes he did make were minor to compress a massive story into three movies without making them 5, or more, hours long. He did not change basic lore, at all. No major characters were changed or removed.
The Rings of Power changes basic lore on so many levels it's insane. To say otherwise is a blatant lie. The story omits characters, such as Celeborn, who was with Galadriel through out the entire time period the Rings of Power is set in. Why cut him out? It is ridiculous.
Trying to argue that the Rings of Power is honest to the lore is laughable at best.
This is fan fiction with people writing it who think they know better than Tolkein. They are not more intelligent or creative than him. Otherwise they would create their own fantasy epic, instead of bastardizing Tolkeins.
Tom Bombadil, completely removed.
Gildor Completely removed.
Glorfindel, GLORFINDEL, swapped for Arwen who they make an op sword weirder (I love it no complaints here). They remove the Westford storyline and characters completely. Not a single mention of Behren and Luthien. The elves come to help and Helms Deep, Barrow Wights taken out, not hunt for gollum. On and on and on.
Peter Jackson is fan fiction. His fan fictions is superb so its excusable.
All I'm saying is the show isn't even out yet. Perhaps we wait and see what changes they made and why.
We only touch on the prime show for like 20 min to talk about could their be black people in middle earth. I wouldn't get so hung up on that. Just enjoy the friendly discussion. Thanks for checking out the video 💝
You probably think the Wheel of Time show is good too.
Dear Lord.
Also, all the things you point out are minor to medium tier plot points. Jackson did not change the lore.
The writers of the Rings of Power have. Period, end of.
They should stop being cowards and just admit the truth, that they re-wrote Tolkein for the modern era. Stop lying. It's pathetic. Same for the rest of you.
Also, no, there were no dark skinned people in the West of Middle Earth. That is changing the lore. The dark skinned people lived in the East and South.
But then you already know that and are just pretending changing that doesn'r change the lore.
You people are disingenuous cowards.
i never liked seeing Gandalf with a sword , it undercuts the whole wizard part of your cv (i never read the books)
Totally valid! I do like a good blend tho haha.
@@LukeParon Imagine this you are a part of the top secret meeting where Frodo is given his ring and bodyguards and sent on his way. You just like everyone else in this world are a billion years old and know who is who in the land of middle earth. You know that Galadriel can literally weaponize bottled water turning it form a time machine portal thing to a weapon that can punch Sauron clear past the horizon , Saruman can sit on top of his badass tower and using nothing that a little song split a mountain in two a thousand kilometers away throwing lightning bolts like Zeus all mighty, and Radagast a man who can bring the dead back to life and beat the dead back to death with his staff .And what does Frodo get ? The the village pyrotechnician armed with a sword and his trusty weed pipe!
Tolkien Expert 🤣 maybe on Tik Tok...
Friggin amateurs.