My friends just told me about this while I was venting about my mom, and when they used the term, I was really grossed out until I looked it up and it’s spot on. I’ve been this outlet for my mom since my dad left when I was 15. My mother is borderline and still relies on me for all of her emotional problems. Honestly, I’m almost 30 and I’ve been too mentally ill to hold a steady job, so I’m still at home taking care of her, and she’s always telling me she doesn’t know what she’s do without me. Learning about this is really fucking me up today. I have no idea how to get out.
Get a job and start saving, start dating …build other relationships to get away from her. Cut off the guilt . Narc parents are evil and don’t want you to prosper.
Yikes, the situation is very similar to mine. My mother is also a borderline. I am in my 30s. She is a single mother with no man in the equation. She wanted to keep me at home, stuck and dependent on her. She discouraged me from trying to be an independent adult and live life, unless it directly benefitted her. She would also say how lucky I am to have a loving and caring mother who would never kick her son out or make him pay rent, but she was a financial parasite and abusive with money. She was also psychologically abusive. The whole situation was emotional incest. I bought my first house with my girlfriend, and we have a son. I have a car and a steady job. Find a job, and stick to it. Grind it out, save your money and get the FUCK OUT mate. If you can live with a friend/family member to get out of the toxic situation ASAP then do that, otherwise put all of your focus on leaving. Your mother pissed her life away, don't feel responsible and guilty for it, that's her shame and guilt to burden herself with. You do the best you can to live your life as a young adult. Talk to many friends/family that you trust and confide in them. Don't give up and keep strong 💪
@@ddench5132 I’m fortunately out now!! I’m living with my amazing girlfriend now, ty!! I’m working on lots of this stuff with a therapist, and my gf has been very supportive. 💖 Ty for your kind words, I’m glad you’re out, too! 💖
@@thatwitch4455 you just gave me so much hope man ty. i’m in a similar situation right now and me and my partner have plans to move into our own place once we’ve saved enough. i’m so happy to hear it’s worked out for you
My mom did all of that but as an adult, we once had to share a bed. She tried to snuggle and spoon me and said "your father and I used to do this". It was like she wanted me to meet her needs for physical affection as well. Talk about bad boundaries!!
I was caught in a marriage with my husband ( now ex) who insisted his mother's emotional needs (and any whim that came into her sick head) came before me and his daughter. She was first and foremost 24/7 365. This was all hidden from me before we married. But, WOW! The only thing I was there for was to have a child which they decided should be "theirs". My husband insisted our child was "Her Child" and Her Kid"; I was told, "Don't be surprised when the police pull you over and they find drugs planted in your car. You'll go to jail and then my mother and I will have her child!"; and "Don't be surprised when you find the baby gone. My mother has enough money to see to it you'll never see that baby again!" (bear in mind, I was a teacher, didn't drink and never used drugs. There was no abuse of my baby. I'd rather kill myself than hurt my little one) This was Emotional Incest to the MAX. They thought and acted like a married couple and yes, the father was very much alive but their marriage was horrible. This was SICK! I grabbed my child and ran. Divorce with supervised visitation for the "father" only.
The pain of your situation has struck me deeply. I am wishing you all the best from afar. God help you protect your children from that mess. God help you disentangle from your husband if that is what you wish/need
Wow!! I've been in a situation kinda like your. Its craziness. And they'll always try to make you seem like your the crazy one. I was almost convinced, but I got the heck out of that situation.
Glad that you got out of there. What a horrible situation. From the other side, I was the emotionally abused man, victim of emotional incest. My mum used to tell me before my child was born "when you have children, your children are my children, just like your brother's children are my children, and they are also your children too". My brother's children call my mom "momma". My niece one time was upset with my mom and called my mom "grandma" in front of my brother and she told her off for doing it. Her response was "she is my grandma though". My partner was there and witnessed it. She asked my brother why he scolded her for pointing out the truth and he responded "she never calls my mom grandma, always momma".
I was chosen at a very young age as a "confidant" of my Mom. I was asked "advice" for such things from my Mom as 'Should I continue to go to wife-swapping events with Dad when I don't like them.' She would cry and I'd tell her 'No. Don't go.' What you say about the effects of this sort of relationship is true. I have had struggles with depression and anxiety and expressing myself (e.g., public speaking was unnerving).
Great video....my mother did this to me and my father was angry, critical, controlling (wonder if part of that was that he saw my mom doting on me and was jealous or something)....but it left me royally screwed because my dad would yell and criticize me and then I would run to my mom and and she would smother me and do everything for me...so I always going back and forth trying to make them both happy....looking back now I realize I was used by them both...a slave to my dads demands (out of fear) and my mom (for her emotional needs and to be her good little boy)...your absolutely right I was NEVER asked by either of them how I felt, thought, etc....so no voice was allowed just people pleasing and becoming whoever was around me to be liked and accepted...NO IDENTITY....I felt so alone growing up because of this like some muted golden boy who was given everything (entitled), but taught nothing(no life skills) had everything done for him (smother) and can't do anything right (father)...this has resulted in crippling learned helplessness, toxic shame, social anxiety (no voice), shaky sense of self, seeking external validation (I was never seen so how could they validate me), no boundaries, not knowing my wants or needs....basically cptsd in a nutshell....all while looking to outsiders as "he had it so good, why is he such a train wreck"....narc parents suck!
@@etphonehome4511 thanks for your comment.....there's a good chance that your father felt "locked out" and powerless, and this may have led to his yelling and criticizing----clearly, his wife, (your mother), had "won", which in essence was a loss for all.....
big 5150 This was my family dynamic also brother. It’s amazing that everything you said was spot on with how everyone communicated with each other (triangulation). You end up so conflicted inside as you feel like your always disappointing one or the other. It’s so unfair to be put in that position as a child. I can totally relate to all the after effects of the abuse also. I’m getting better in some areas because of therapy and making a point to work through some of my fears and hang ups. Did you ever struggle with any addictions? I’ve had issues with pornography since I was a kid. It seems to be a common theme with this type of abuse. Thanks so much for sharing your story brother. I wish you the best on your healing journey.
@@adamrocks19 hey Adam, not really addictions per say but I've leaned on substances to cope with social anxiety. Average porn watcher lol....no addiction with it. Yeah I'm pretty pissed about this shit upon discovering all this. Of course my parents won't admit shit, and everyone says u can't blame your parents ....Fuck that I do blame them...their selfish narcissists that used me...my dad to dump his shame on me....and my mom to fill up her neediness. ..and I'm caught holding the bag....Fuck em
Something that stood out to me....my mother would tell me over and over when I did things she didn't want as an adult is that "it's normal for a child to want to do things to please their parents." Then she would give me examples of how she only did what her parents wanted to do.(back story...I was in my early 30s and told my parents about the man I wanted to marry. They tried to talk me out of it for three years both directly and indirectly by getting my other family members to try and break it up. A little different because my mom was 19 when she got married. I was 34 when I was able to leave their house, because they wouldn't "let" me before I got married and trust me I tried but was sent rage attacks from my father...and mother telling me that I would never be able to live on my own....). I finally got married but had to do a lot of lying and complying to what my parents wanted, not what I wanted. For example, they had a say in my wedding, put religious demands on my husband (I have to pretend I am their religion or else they will disown me or possibly worse), and they even dictated how far I could live away from them. How convenient that my father has his real estate license, so they were the ones showing me houses. I wanted to see a house that was 45 minutes away from them and they refused. They only accepted up to 30 minutes away from them...I could go on but hopefully that paints a picture. I was suicidal for years because I didn't see a way out from their control. And the thing that made it worse was the denial, and my parents pointing out that my brothers were raised the same way....so why am I the only one having the "problem." Things are a bit better because at least I don't have to see them every day, but I'm realizing I will never be away from their grasp. I tried to set boundaries, but when I stopped calling my mom as much, I got my dad demanding I call daily, and my brothers in on it. My mom likely told them something because how would they know how long I'm talking to her over the phone. The thing that is pissing me off is I see my parents, especially my mom doing this to my brother now. But my brother is completely under her spell. He's a doctor for gosh sake, and my mom treats him like a child. She doesn't want him to marry his girlfriend and has tried to get me to talk him out of it. Now in a way, my mother is trying to align with me again (she did more when I was younger and having marital problems with my dad...then once I got older, she stopped confiding in me and took his side I think because she knew he could use more force to control me. Interestingly, my mom didn't stand up for me much when I was a kid and my dad would emotionally/verbally abuse me...which apparently is all in my head according to them....they "had it worse" than me and I should consider myself lucky I didn't deal with what they did....according to them). They don't like my brother's girlfriend is standing up for herself and won't allow my parents to make demands. She refuses to convert to their religion, and many other things. This is unlike my husband, who basically did whatever my parents wanted because he did everything he could to marry me. I thought that once we got married they would get off my back. Not the case as much as I had hoped. My parents are like parasites in a way. None of my other siblings see this except for me. My brother who I described above still goes over my parents house bi-weekly to spend the weekend because he works out of state a couple hours a way. He has said that he will not marry his girlfriend if my parents don't approve. I told him I will support him no matter what and that he shouldn't make a decision based on them. He is afraid that he will cause an issue in the family. I reminded him that he wouldn't be doing it, our parents are. But now I'm seeing from another perspective how my mother is playing the victim, that my brother's girlfriend is so terrible and unfriendly. I actually met her and my parents were pissed they didn't know (apparently they feel like they have a right to know who comes over my house, even though I'm 37 years old). She is a very nice young woman, well-educated, and going to finish med school soon. I'm glad she is not taking my parents crap. She is much wiser than me. Sorry this is long, writing it is cathartic. I've been in a lot of therapy to deal with my parents and am still in therapy. There isn't enough time to process everything. I have accepted they will not change and no longer desire trying to have a meaningful relationship with them, especially my mother. As I reflect, I see that I was used as her therapist from a young age. Although they did provide me financially when I was younger their emotional needs came first. I do what I need to do as the bare minimum. If I don't come over every week and don't call minimum every two days it becomes a problem and my mom plays victim and gets her "cronies" to whip me back into shape. I don't give her much personal details about my life, although our conversations are mostly just a barrage of her asking me a bunch of questions. Even when she asks me what I ate for dinner I just tell her the same thing every time. I think that because the control is still going on I still have a lot of resentment towards my parents, which I know is not healthy.
I was used as her therapist her husband …. Her whipping post her best friend and her worst enemy…She used me to martyr herself and to play the victim… I hadn’t the right to my own boundaries And in many instances had absolutely no care or concern or empathy for me whatsoever when I was sick…I had had a 30 day stay in the hospital and I had to through her out of my room on several occasions!! She really went on a rampage as many of my family and extended family put their concern and FOCUS ON ME… I was raining on her parade after all !!!! Ad infinitum ….. And yes Believe it or not she’d always refer to me as he precious one as she was throwing under the bus…. And to conclude she was the catalyst for having 2 sisters drowning in hostility me…. I’ve long since gone no contact with all of them… THANKYOU for this marvelous pod cast…. NAMASTE🕉️💯
I had no boundaries at home. Even when I was entering my 20s. Anything I kept private, my mother would be personally offended by and would act as though whatever it was was somehow incriminating or wrong, even if it wasn't (which was all of the time). She'd put me in positions where I would feel obligated to tell her (and even show her) all of my conversations with friends, I used to enjoy writing scripts for fun, but I couldn't keep that private either. For a long time, it would be the sense of "well I'm close to my mum" or "it makes her happy to tell her and involve her in these things" so I wouldn't really consider my emotions. As I got older and retrospectively was uncomfortable about this, I found it very difficult to stop. And even now, when I am around her or on the telephone to her, anything I withold from her, I feel like a bad person and like I am wrong to have a life separate to her.
I can relate to this. My mom felt like I had to share everything with her. No secrets about anything. She loved to gossip and if I didn't tell her everything what was going on with friends/partners and their conversations that they had with me, she would take it personally and shame me for it. Was not fully allowed privacy. If I was having a shower/bath and she wanted to use the sink, she wouldn't go to the kitchen, she would demand i open the door. When I covered up my private bits, she would make comments like "oh come on, I changed your nappy since you were a baby, you don't think I've seen your bits...whats wrong with you". If she was having a bath, she would leave the door open. She would come out the bath and be stark naked. She would go into my brother's room and get herself dressed whilst my brother was in his room playing his video games, or doing whatever he was doing. Really fucked up to be honest
My boyfriend has always been his mothers goto for emotional incest, and once he met me she swears i ruined everything, she hates me and never can give me a reason. Im afraid that it will affect our relationship forever. He deals with it by just ignoring her behavior. She does things like keeps his siblings away from him when shes angry. Calls me bad names, mimics the fact that he might marry me. Hes very silent, doesnt talk more observant. He used to hate expressing emotions but ive literally had to guide him thru and teach him that its ok to express and not everything will be anger Sooooo much and we’ve only been together 5 years 🙄🙄🙄🙄
Hi Mishell, best case scenario is that your boyfriend, out of his love for you, will learn/begin to implement healthy boundaries with his mother.....I hope that's what he chooses, I wish you the best.....
Thank you for all the videos on emotional incest. I'm 54 and just figuring out my mother was a narcaccist and proctored emotional incest. I am totally lost in my self identify. I don't know who I really am. Working with therapist. But I am so sad and depressed that nothing was real.
You described exactly the relationship between me and my brother, thanks. Emotional incest makes a lot more sense to me than the term ‘golden child’, because a golden child never comes out unscathed (as much as discussions on the internet seem to assume), and emotional incest describes much more accurately how damaging this family dynamic is to the more ‘favoured’ child.
sister was my mom's golden child. sister was my scapegoat. I became narc. later broke and become my mom's ... like I wanted to help fix her and my dad. but I became spouse. then I became narc.
This helps me understand why I felt like, simultaneously that I was going crazy, but that everyone around me was crazy. If I ever complained about my dad, they’d chime in about how much he loves me, and how sweet his affections are for me, and suggest I go to my parents for help. Meanwhile, my dad would say I was “making things up” if I ever told him I was violated by a man or when I suffered psychosis (maybe I’m not sure) or if I was depressed. Every time I said I was sad or that I might cry he acted annoyed and told me I should stop being sad and for the sake of everyone else be happy instead. He said this when my friend was kidnapped and brutalised, losing her home and job in the aftermath. Yet, everyone else can’t see it. It’s like they’re blind, or so distracted about the glory he gives me behind my back that they can’t see how volatile he is around my negative emotions. He read this book, “I’m ok, you’re ok.” I think he interpreted it as, “I’m ok if you’re ok.”
Thanks for sharing your story Amy.....your comment that "if I ever complained about my dad, they’d chime in about how much he loves me" is a classic sign of Emotional Incest.
I have to stop your videos couple times before I watch it because it all makes sense and it hurts my head and I have to distract myself with something. Currently listening to Cannibal Corpse - Make Them Suffer, Caged...Contorted and Scourge of Iron. It's just so much to process and my wounds open and now I understand. There's so much grief that comes with it, the what ifs, the missed opportunities, my anti natalistic attitudes, misanthropy, depression, anxiety, feeling lost and confused. But I'm ready to straight myself out. I don't know if it's good but I live for revenge and my revenge is to live good life for myself and away from my parents. Enough of submission.
You are the only person online who totally "gets this", probably because you lived it yourself. I married a man who was his mother's surrogate husband and it was awful. I tried so hard to help him, but he was so scared of being taken over that he denied my ability to be assertive - seeing all assertiveness as aggressiveness. He was toxic to me and I believe he transferred his hate for his mother on to me. I can't say how much this dynamic affected our marriage and children. Awful, awful, awful.
I was the parentified child by my father and I had a boyfriend once he was emotionally incested by his mother. It was a disastrous relationship dynamic between the two of us. One thing I would like to add from our experience though, we were both quite expressive of our opinions. His mother wouldn't care offending others and he was the same. My father wouldn't care for others' feelings and as a child I was the one my class room always raising my hand and not afraid of being seen. Because at the time, it was my way of receiving love and affection. Only later on, when my father also became physically abusive with me during my teenage years and was so mad at me for 'leaving him' then I started developing severe anxiety and fear of public opinion.
Your videos really helped me put language to what happened to me as a kid and well into my adult years. I've been in therapy and healing from this and finding my voice and stopped all contact with my parents so that I could heal. I am so happy there are videos like yours to raise awareness to this insidious form of abuse.
It not only affects the person that has been through this but if they (the victim) now have children of their own it affected them too. Until the victim heals or finds help the effects of this will continue to fester and that's really sad. Great video ...loved both vids you did on this topic....a real eye-opener to what I'm dealing with rn... Thanks Brad!
I watched all 3 videos you have on emotional incest. It’s a very interesting topic and feel like this is what my MIL has with my husband. I tried once talking to him or bringing up that I think his mom uses him as a surrogate spouse but he didn’t want to hear it so I just dropped the subject. But the more he puts up boundaries with his mom for our marriage it seems we get quite a push back and she will say she forgot about the boundaries and still do them. But as soon as I say anything and set the boundaries she doesn’t push them at all. His mom has been divorced twice and he’s the baby of the kids so when her 2nd marriage started to fall apart I think that when she started relying on my husband. But I think both of them are completely unaware of it.
Yes it seems you are having some GREAT insight on the family dynamics.....I'm so happy to hear that when YOU "say something" she doesn't push the boundaries at all.......any yes, the majority of affected families are completely unaware of this sick dynamic playing out within the family....thanks for watching!
Brad, thanks so much for posting about emotional incest and the toxic effects it has on us. Add my name to the list of victims ala Dear Ole Mom. Weak father who had no voice and it certainly was as you describe. The effects are precisely as you outline and yes, in tx for depression, being a doormat to obnoxious women and so much more. Again, thank you for explaining in simplistic terms the horror of this concept.
glad it was helpful.....half the battle is being willing to 'see' it and 'admit' it, and clearly you are well on your way in understanding all of this.....take care.
A thought about your intamacy point... I wonder if it always necessarily manifests in a FEAR of intimacy...I wonder if it could manifest in the complusion to CREATE intimacy! Like....one becomes so accustomed to this boundaryless hyper-intimate relationship that anything less than that feels vulnerable, inauthentic, and impermanent.... Anyway...thank you endlessly for this supportive resource. God bless you.
I apparently portrayed the role of my Mother's social and emotional immature "husband". As a smothered child who had to assume the role of "scapegoat" to feel even slightly accepted into my dysfunctional family group I was forced to assume the weight of a lot of unearned guilt over not just the things I was perceived as doing "wrong" or "imperfectly I had the hate(unearned guilt and much projected anger) projected onto me from whatever my carnal Father did that was found unacceptable. As an adult I've done much personal growth work to regain some semblance of identity other than being a disorganized-preoccupied-anxious- codependent love avoider. None of it has been easy, though many could claim it's a simple process and they'd be right. It's taken years of experience and self-reflection and self-directed study of Attachment Theory, Jungian Psychology, Bernian Psychology(see... the games people play by Eric Berne). More self-reflection and quiet time without outside distractions(covid's mixed blessing to me) like other people's agendas or to-do lists. Then I started internalizing my own locus of control that had nothing to do with "friends or family's or an employer's agenda. If you can relate to much I have written here please be patient and gentle with yourself. I have back-slidden many times. The key is of course keep getting back at the process of reclaiming your life for yourself. No one...repeat No one will ever be a better advocate for improving the quality of your life than you. Keep after it...the love of conscious choice. Until the choice of self-care and betterment consistently BEATS out the choice for self-sabotage. Good luck or May God Bless.
My mother latched on to my brother and my step-mother and father latched on to me! How sad and so misunderstood the trauma of this sickness. My brother has a lot of hidden angry at her ( she had a lot of emotional issues obviously her brother molested her.)My stepmother was so emotionally starving for intimacy with my emotionally retarded father(he had many issues )His mother died when he was 7 yrs old. I did not like the way my father interacted with me when he was around ( I felt gross being around him like he wanted to molest me or an unhealthy attraction to me. he molested his sister growing up )My dads father went to jail for rape and incest of his own daughters. My family had so many issues .I remember many things he did to me. As of now I choose to live alone and isolated. sad
Can someone be the Golden Child and Scapegoat alternating? She'd have me as a confidant, therapist but blame me for her problems. And would scream at me if I wanted to just be alone. She was angry at me for leaving home, sometimes. When I had a bipolar breakdown, she said something like "that's what you get for moving to San Francisco". But she can also be sweet and kind. Very confusing
Thank you for making these videos. I am only recently coming around to understand my upbringing and listening to your experiences help so much. My defense and lashing out was sneaking out at night and having sex as a way to control one part of my life. . I do believe 100% that it was the only option I had at to cope with my home life and have some sense of self and it was the only way I felt I could “be a kid”. All of my friendships were sabotaged by my mother by lying to me or fighting with my friend’s parents. For a few years in my early teens it was like I had two lives and I was very exhausted at school. It was very sad. I used to feel very shameful of it, now I don’t. I didn’t know at the time that it wasn’t an authentic me. I was scared and confused and wanted to have one thing to me, but it came and bit me in the butt multiple times. I developed a false reputation of a promiscuous and disobedient girl and my self esteem and self worth, which barely existed at all, disappeared. My ex boyfriend spread pictures of me to all of my neighbors. And I became a shell of a person. I left school. I basically checked out of life. Damn... I am much better now after I moved away from home.
Hi Hannah, my favorite sentence from what you wrote: "I used to feel very shameful of it, but now I don't." I LOVE that! It shows you're not letting your mother win----you've reclaimed your 'self'. Keep up the good work and valuable insight......
@@BradShore Thank you for responding to my comment! Is it possible for a parent to inflict this on multiple children, not just the chosen one? I think my mom did it to my brothers too and they don't know it.
Hannah Adams I know from my experience, I was the preferred one with respect to being used, but my mom would occasionally go to my brother. It is also possible to be enmeshed with both parents at one time or another. I was enmeshed with my mom up till late teens or so and then it switched to my dad until I figured out what was going on. I’ve been in therapy the last 5 years and have established healthy boundaries with my family now. It’s a lot better than it was. Best of luck on your healing journey Hannah!
As a past worker with disadvantaged/disassociated youth and recidivist young offenders, I often would see/meet family/victims where the often single mother had turned their male child son into "weapons" against anyone who pissed her off, or the type of person that the youth "believed" were like the ones who re-presented what the mother had conditioned them to believe. Anyway, a complex subject that causes complexities and complexes with and within those who have been exposed to these unhealthy family/parent dynamics. Thanks, you’re doing excellent presentation/info.... 👍🏽👍🏼👍🏾🇦🇺
Mother to daughter .....I dealt with this' having been taken over'. Being invisible is not up to the victim. We were allowed to speak up. Parts fit. I got cleared with my youth psych .In my 20's. TY
Yeah, this "princess" was Cinderella with ACOA issues, called the golden child....one who worked her ass off and it wasn't enough. I never heard any doting, praise, etc yet the older siblings tagged me as golden. I feared abandonment so was as good as I knew how to be. Golden.
Brad, I appreciate this discussion on emotional incest. I suffered this type of abuse all throughout early childhood starting around four years old all the way into my twenties. The topic about not having a voice really spoke to me as I have realized of late that it’s hard for me to state my opinion or say no. I also have a paralyzing fear of public speaking also. I’m a lead engineer with my company so public speaking is a necessary evil. Anyways, I noticed that you do Skype therapy according to your profile on psychology today. I would be interested in doing some sessions with you as you have experienced this abuse yourself and would have the best understanding of what struggles I’ve been enduring. I have been seeing a Christian based counselor in my area for a couple of years but I am interested in a different perspective because he’s not experienced with the covert incest component. Please let me know.
Hi Adam, glad it was helpful, and glad to see how you seem to be 'putting the pieces together' about your childhood. In answer to your question I do offer Skype counseling sessions, but I am only permitted to do that with clients who live in the state of California which is where I live (this is a rule of the Board of Behavioral Sciences that it must be in-state); let me know if you live in California(?). If not, be sure to find a therapist in the state where you live to fully explore this issue, and definitely with a therapist who has a broader perspective than what you had in the past. Best wishes to you!
Brad Shore, LMFT [Ask A Shrink!] I don’t live in California unfortunately. I should have figured it was a state licensure thing. No worries. I do appreciate the insight you bring to your videos. I wish you the best. Thanks!
Thank you for this video! I have a question... I’ve recently been serving as a therapist/emotional support system for both my mother and father respectively (nasty divorce going on right now,) but I’m 20, and this started at 18 for me (from what I can tell.) Even though I’m not technically a child, is this still something I should try to rectify?
Hi Maggie, there's no reason a daughter of any age should be a 'therapist/emotional support system' for both of their parents, especially when there is a divorce going on. They are grown adults who chose to marry each other and they need to figure all of this out on their own. Remove yourself, both emotionally and physically if necessary, and concentrate on YOUR life, YOUR goals and YOUR dreams.......best wishes to you.
This was so insightful. Thank you so much. I'm really just beginning to unpack the relationship I have with my Mum, now that I'm an adult. My mother (a shrink!! (child psychiatrist) of all things) and had this relationship with me from a young age when my father would be absent. As the youngest child, the naturally made HUGE strife with me and my older brother. And as an adult, all these ramifications you're talking about deeply resonate with me. Plus, everything else you were saying in your previous video resonated SO MUCH with me, honestly. So, thank you. Deeply. Aloha.
You're welcome! Glad to see you're having a great deal of insight about this, and as you say 'unpacking' it. It can be a long process to unpack it all but very well worth it.......best wishes, Brad
Thank you so much!!!! Could you please make a video about narcissistic in laws? I’ve been with my husband for almost 28 years. His mother is a covert narcissist and several times tried to destroy my marriage . I’m in no contact with her, but my husband talks to her. She’s constantly manipulative by making my husband feel guilty … how come that my husband finds excuses for her bad behaviour ?? I don’t understand my husband … he’s almost 50 and craves for his mother approval .. it’s so strange .it makes me sick from my stomach …thank you so much !!!
Ya I totally got the insanity of being the Chosen One and also getting the jealousy of my siblings and my Dad who made things worse by telling them that my mom only loved me. I never asked for that She also made me be her defender against my father and my siblings so essentially making me her chosen one but also marking her shield. I took the most damage. It didn’t help that she can be incredibly narcissistic and would attack them and manipulate them when I wasn’t around and didn’t see it, then when they reacted to that abuse.. she would run to me about how they were abusing her and not giving me what really happened and manipulated me into defending her when she was being the abuser. I really hate that she did that. This in Turn, made them absolutely hate me. Also because I’m autistic.. she always treated me like I had no agency because of my autism. Then there was the fact she really regarded me as her partner, sometimes it crossed over to physical incest I’ve tried talking to therapists about it ..!they just kinda gloss over it and move on to other things. I’ve talked to 3 different therapists about it and same response. I don’t know how to really get it out and they don’t know what to look for However being forced to be her protector.. I did learn to be assertive even if she forced me to take on a mother bear role.. so I don’t have a problem with being assertive But setting boundaries I relationships is very new to me ... learning healthy emotional language is new to me. Luckily my partner had a mostly stable home life growing up and has taught me a lot That said ... I don’t think I will ever feel like an adult and I’m 45. I feel like a child in an adult body
What about siblings that are incest and spending time in family reunions? Explain the physical and emotional incest between siblings. Everyone only mentions parents. What about the mother that is emotionally incestuous, a sibling that is physically incestuous. Would clumsy stealthy footsie under a dinner table be a red flag for the couple of one of the siblings?
Excellent video. My experience mirrors yours except that I received no doting or special treatment. My parents were alcoholics, she poured it on me and my step father avoided her spending his time at the Elks Lodge. lol. This treatment really does a number on a persons ability to be intimate as an adult, youo lose your childhood and as you said, even to this day the invisability has become ingrained in me.
I was raised with emotional incest by my mom...but I was the scapegoat, I didn’t had anything to want; not allowed to say no; my opinion was laughed away and my interests were devaluated. I experience the same problems you describe. Can you do a movie about this..?
Hi there, I've made about 11 or 12 videos on Emotional Incest.......check out these other videos and maybe they will help you in answering any other questions you may have. I'm sorry you had to go through this as a child-----being a "scapegoat" only amplifies the suffering even more.
Thanks for your insight. A note - your audio needs to be a consistent level across making your intro music match your vocal. I almost ran off the road when your music erupted🌋. Cheers
THIS IS ABUSE REPORT IT TO COPS..THESE PARENTS NEED STRICT SUPERVISION..YOU AS A CHILD ARE A SEPARATE HUMAN WITH RIGHTS TO GOOD CARE..THIS IS OBJECTIONABLY SICK..THEY ARE OFTEN SEXUALLY ABUSED ALONG WITH THIS STYLE OF GROOMING...
Your channel deserves way more views. Have you thought of doing a program with Amanda Bank Lees another important voice in this area. Thank you for your work
Can I get your advice? I'm 23, I split with my narc ex boyfriend father of my only child, about 3 yrs ago. Domestic violence aside from the question, I live in my own unit with my toddler, I get cranky and I tell him ..I'm sad.. IFi am because he asks if I'm okay, but I don't talk about why and I sort of wave him off to keep playing as he was, whilst I do what ever I was doing aswel, Until I'm then ready to make plans to go out and then we go on adventures etc, he goes to daycare's in and off due to reasons out of my control, I have no family or friend support.. Non of which are my fault, I call phone helplines when I want or need emotional support. Am I doing this right? I don't want to be emotionally incest to my son, I don't want to rob him of his innocence.
Hi Candice it sounds like you're doing fine, and you have good insight as to what Emotional Incest is all about (i.e. when you say "I don't talk about why and I sort of waive him off").......that's a great response, you're naming your feeling which is appropriate but then not continuing into emotionally unloading on him in any way. Keep up the good work----keep the focus on his developmental needs, not yours. Take care and best wishes!
Do you have any recommendations on what sort of therapy or therapist victims of covert sexual abuse should look into? I want to see someone but I’m also worried that this topic is very specialized? Thank you so much. 🙏
Hi Siobhan, it's a good rule of thumb to talk with/interview several licensed therapists before you start therapy----ask them if they're familiar with a "psychodynamic" approach---a Behavioral or Cognitive Behavioral (CBT) approach is not as helpful with this issue in my opinion. Let the therapist know that one of the primary issues you'll be bringing up is related to having been emotionally smothered by a parent, and watch to see if they seem familiar with and/or comfortable with dealing with this topic. It's also a good idea to ask a therapist if they're still in their own individual therapy with their own personal therapist. The most competent therapists, in my opinion, continue with their own therapy throughout their career as a therapist. Go with your gut feeling as to whether you feel safe with the therapist and that they truly understand your core issue. You are the interviewer and get to pick the best therapist for you. Best wishes to you on your journey of discovery!
HELP can the parent switch the golden child ...? younger sister moved out and I tried to take care of my parents.. mom said it's not right. but I said let me. also. sister was protected from narc dad. but mom is co depentant. and narc-ish too
Look/Ask/Google in your area----or perhaps you can do online/Skype therapy with a licensed professional. The main thing is to begin working through your feelings with a therapist, even if the therapist is only vaguely aware of Emotional Incest. Best wishes to you....
This situation is the exact thing that is going on with my 42 year old boyfriend and his mom. She always likes to control him and tell him what to do. Everything she says is right everyone else is wrong. 😭😭 I love him what should i do???
You can only control yourself......there's a good chance he'll permit this the rest of his life.....so the question is not about him----the question is about whether or not YOU'RE willing to tolerate this in a partner....
My mom recently made me buy her a vibrator cause she is too embarrassed... please tell me thats some sick shit... 1at I was flattered that we have super deep relationship but now that Ive been watching all these videos Y feel used, disgusted gross my stomach feels sick with this whole sibjetc... i am married now, live in another country with my husband and kids and i dread talking to my mother... she acts like a child its fucking disgusting, she is almost 60 and now that Im not there my younge rbrothers are now used for emotional incest to vent from her repressed marriage with a man that is 15hyrs younger than ger and always has been so full of drama... i feel for my brothers cause I can tell they are getting sick all the time, struggle with depression etc...
I know of 2 twenty plus year old girls that have this but both of them are quite the opposite of your video. They demand control cuz daddy gave them control over the house.
"Soul mate" for my mother "scapegoat" for my big sister. Feel like a voodoo doll.
Lord gave mercy. I am so sorry.
Me too, brother. We'll get through this!
Felt you are talking about me mother died sister no contact bliss😎
I hope and pray you get your healing 🙏
My friends just told me about this while I was venting about my mom, and when they used the term, I was really grossed out until I looked it up and it’s spot on.
I’ve been this outlet for my mom since my dad left when I was 15. My mother is borderline and still relies on me for all of her emotional problems. Honestly, I’m almost 30 and I’ve been too mentally ill to hold a steady job, so I’m still at home taking care of her, and she’s always telling me she doesn’t know what she’s do without me. Learning about this is really fucking me up today. I have no idea how to get out.
Get a job and start saving, start dating …build other relationships to get away from her. Cut off the guilt . Narc parents are evil and don’t want you to prosper.
Yikes, the situation is very similar to mine. My mother is also a borderline. I am in my 30s. She is a single mother with no man in the equation. She wanted to keep me at home, stuck and dependent on her. She discouraged me from trying to be an independent adult and live life, unless it directly benefitted her. She would also say how lucky I am to have a loving and caring mother who would never kick her son out or make him pay rent, but she was a financial parasite and abusive with money. She was also psychologically abusive. The whole situation was emotional incest.
I bought my first house with my girlfriend, and we have a son. I have a car and a steady job. Find a job, and stick to it. Grind it out, save your money and get the FUCK OUT mate. If you can live with a friend/family member to get out of the toxic situation ASAP then do that, otherwise put all of your focus on leaving. Your mother pissed her life away, don't feel responsible and guilty for it, that's her shame and guilt to burden herself with. You do the best you can to live your life as a young adult. Talk to many friends/family that you trust and confide in them. Don't give up and keep strong 💪
@@ddench5132 I’m fortunately out now!! I’m living with my amazing girlfriend now, ty!! I’m working on lots of this stuff with a therapist, and my gf has been very supportive. 💖
Ty for your kind words, I’m glad you’re out, too! 💖
@@thatwitch4455 Glad to hear! 🎉
@@thatwitch4455 you just gave me so much hope man ty. i’m in a similar situation right now and me and my partner have plans to move into our own place once we’ve saved enough. i’m so happy to hear it’s worked out for you
My mom did all of that but as an adult, we once had to share a bed. She tried to snuggle and spoon me and said "your father and I used to do this". It was like she wanted me to meet her needs for physical affection as well. Talk about bad boundaries!!
I was caught in a marriage with my husband ( now ex) who insisted his mother's emotional needs (and any whim that came into her sick head) came before me and his daughter. She was first and foremost 24/7 365. This was all hidden from me before we married. But, WOW! The only thing I was there for was to have a child which they decided should be "theirs". My husband insisted our child was "Her Child" and Her Kid"; I was told, "Don't be surprised when the police pull you over and they find drugs planted in your car. You'll go to jail and then my mother and I will have her child!"; and "Don't be surprised when you find the baby gone. My mother has enough money to see to it you'll never see that baby again!" (bear in mind, I was a teacher, didn't drink and never used drugs. There was no abuse of my baby. I'd rather kill myself than hurt my little one) This was Emotional Incest to the MAX. They thought and acted like a married couple and yes, the father was very much alive but their marriage was horrible. This was SICK! I grabbed my child and ran. Divorce with supervised visitation for the "father" only.
The pain of your situation has struck me deeply. I am wishing you all the best from afar. God help you protect your children from that mess. God help you disentangle from your husband if that is what you wish/need
Wow!!
I've been in a situation kinda like your. Its craziness. And they'll always try to make you seem like your the crazy one.
I was almost convinced, but I got the heck out of that situation.
Glad that you got out of there. What a horrible situation.
From the other side, I was the emotionally abused man, victim of emotional incest. My mum used to tell me before my child was born "when you have children, your children are my children, just like your brother's children are my children, and they are also your children too". My brother's children call my mom "momma". My niece one time was upset with my mom and called my mom "grandma" in front of my brother and she told her off for doing it. Her response was "she is my grandma though". My partner was there and witnessed it. She asked my brother why he scolded her for pointing out the truth and he responded "she never calls my mom grandma, always momma".
Thank you so much for making this. I'm losing my fucking mind. An only child that grew up with crazy parents, up on a hill away from others. Goddam.
Even though it may feel like it you're not losing your mind, and just the fact you're having these insights shows you're on your way to recovery......
@@BradShore Thank you :)
I was chosen at a very young age as a "confidant" of my Mom. I was asked "advice" for such things from my Mom as 'Should I continue to go to wife-swapping events with Dad when I don't like them.' She would cry and I'd tell her 'No. Don't go.' What you say about the effects of this sort of relationship is true. I have had struggles with depression and anxiety and expressing myself (e.g., public speaking was unnerving).
I'm glad you found and watched this video.....perhaps it'll help clarify and "put a name" to what you went through as a child. Best wishes to you.....
Great video....my mother did this to me and my father was angry, critical, controlling (wonder if part of that was that he saw my mom doting on me and was jealous or something)....but it left me royally screwed because my dad would yell and criticize me and then I would run to my mom and and she would smother me and do everything for me...so I always going back and forth trying to make them both happy....looking back now I realize I was used by them both...a slave to my dads demands (out of fear) and my mom (for her emotional needs and to be her good little boy)...your absolutely right I was NEVER asked by either of them how I felt, thought, etc....so no voice was allowed just people pleasing and becoming whoever was around me to be liked and accepted...NO IDENTITY....I felt so alone growing up because of this like some muted golden boy who was given everything (entitled), but taught nothing(no life skills) had everything done for him (smother) and can't do anything right (father)...this has resulted in crippling learned helplessness, toxic shame, social anxiety (no voice), shaky sense of self, seeking external validation (I was never seen so how could they validate me), no boundaries, not knowing my wants or needs....basically cptsd in a nutshell....all while looking to outsiders as "he had it so good, why is he such a train wreck"....narc parents suck!
@@etphonehome4511 thanks for your comment.....there's a good chance that your father felt "locked out" and powerless, and this may have led to his yelling and criticizing----clearly, his wife, (your mother), had "won", which in essence was a loss for all.....
big 5150 This was my family dynamic also brother. It’s amazing that everything you said was spot on with how everyone communicated with each other (triangulation). You end up so conflicted inside as you feel like your always disappointing one or the other. It’s so unfair to be put in that position as a child. I can totally relate to all the after effects of the abuse also. I’m getting better in some areas because of therapy and making a point to work through some of my fears and hang ups. Did you ever struggle with any addictions? I’ve had issues with pornography since I was a kid. It seems to be a common theme with this type of abuse. Thanks so much for sharing your story brother. I wish you the best on your healing journey.
@@adamrocks19 hey Adam, not really addictions per say but I've leaned on substances to cope with social anxiety. Average porn watcher lol....no addiction with it. Yeah I'm pretty pissed about this shit upon discovering all this. Of course my parents won't admit shit, and everyone says u can't blame your parents ....Fuck that I do blame them...their selfish narcissists that used me...my dad to dump his shame on me....and my mom to fill up her neediness. ..and I'm caught holding the bag....Fuck em
Something that stood out to me....my mother would tell me over and over when I did things she didn't want as an adult is that "it's normal for a child to want to do things to please their parents." Then she would give me examples of how she only did what her parents wanted to do.(back story...I was in my early 30s and told my parents about the man I wanted to marry. They tried to talk me out of it for three years both directly and indirectly by getting my other family members to try and break it up. A little different because my mom was 19 when she got married. I was 34 when I was able to leave their house, because they wouldn't "let" me before I got married and trust me I tried but was sent rage attacks from my father...and mother telling me that I would never be able to live on my own....). I finally got married but had to do a lot of lying and complying to what my parents wanted, not what I wanted. For example, they had a say in my wedding, put religious demands on my husband (I have to pretend I am their religion or else they will disown me or possibly worse), and they even dictated how far I could live away from them. How convenient that my father has his real estate license, so they were the ones showing me houses. I wanted to see a house that was 45 minutes away from them and they refused. They only accepted up to 30 minutes away from them...I could go on but hopefully that paints a picture. I was suicidal for years because I didn't see a way out from their control. And the thing that made it worse was the denial, and my parents pointing out that my brothers were raised the same way....so why am I the only one having the "problem." Things are a bit better because at least I don't have to see them every day, but I'm realizing I will never be away from their grasp. I tried to set boundaries, but when I stopped calling my mom as much, I got my dad demanding I call daily, and my brothers in on it. My mom likely told them something because how would they know how long I'm talking to her over the phone.
The thing that is pissing me off is I see my parents, especially my mom doing this to my brother now. But my brother is completely under her spell. He's a doctor for gosh sake, and my mom treats him like a child. She doesn't want him to marry his girlfriend and has tried to get me to talk him out of it. Now in a way, my mother is trying to align with me again (she did more when I was younger and having marital problems with my dad...then once I got older, she stopped confiding in me and took his side I think because she knew he could use more force to control me. Interestingly, my mom didn't stand up for me much when I was a kid and my dad would emotionally/verbally abuse me...which apparently is all in my head according to them....they "had it worse" than me and I should consider myself lucky I didn't deal with what they did....according to them). They don't like my brother's girlfriend is standing up for herself and won't allow my parents to make demands. She refuses to convert to their religion, and many other things. This is unlike my husband, who basically did whatever my parents wanted because he did everything he could to marry me. I thought that once we got married they would get off my back. Not the case as much as I had hoped. My parents are like parasites in a way. None of my other siblings see this except for me. My brother who I described above still goes over my parents house bi-weekly to spend the weekend because he works out of state a couple hours a way. He has said that he will not marry his girlfriend if my parents don't approve. I told him I will support him no matter what and that he shouldn't make a decision based on them. He is afraid that he will cause an issue in the family. I reminded him that he wouldn't be doing it, our parents are. But now I'm seeing from another perspective how my mother is playing the victim, that my brother's girlfriend is so terrible and unfriendly. I actually met her and my parents were pissed they didn't know (apparently they feel like they have a right to know who comes over my house, even though I'm 37 years old). She is a very nice young woman, well-educated, and going to finish med school soon. I'm glad she is not taking my parents crap. She is much wiser than me. Sorry this is long, writing it is cathartic. I've been in a lot of therapy to deal with my parents and am still in therapy. There isn't enough time to process everything. I have accepted they will not change and no longer desire trying to have a meaningful relationship with them, especially my mother. As I reflect, I see that I was used as her therapist from a young age. Although they did provide me financially when I was younger their emotional needs came first. I do what I need to do as the bare minimum. If I don't come over every week and don't call minimum every two days it becomes a problem and my mom plays victim and gets her "cronies" to whip me back into shape. I don't give her much personal details about my life, although our conversations are mostly just a barrage of her asking me a bunch of questions. Even when she asks me what I ate for dinner I just tell her the same thing every time. I think that because the control is still going on I still have a lot of resentment towards my parents, which I know is not healthy.
I was used as her therapist her husband …. Her whipping post her best friend and her worst enemy…She used me to martyr herself and to play the victim… I hadn’t the right to my own boundaries And in many instances had absolutely no care or concern or empathy for me whatsoever when I was sick…I had had a 30 day stay in the hospital and I had to through her out of my room on several occasions!! She really went on a rampage as many of my family and extended family put their concern and FOCUS ON ME… I was raining on her parade after all !!!! Ad infinitum ….. And yes Believe it or not she’d always refer to me as he precious one as she was throwing under the bus…. And to conclude she was the catalyst for having 2 sisters drowning in hostility me…. I’ve long since gone no contact with all of them… THANKYOU for this marvelous pod cast…. NAMASTE🕉️💯
I had no boundaries at home. Even when I was entering my 20s. Anything I kept private, my mother would be personally offended by and would act as though whatever it was was somehow incriminating or wrong, even if it wasn't (which was all of the time). She'd put me in positions where I would feel obligated to tell her (and even show her) all of my conversations with friends, I used to enjoy writing scripts for fun, but I couldn't keep that private either. For a long time, it would be the sense of "well I'm close to my mum" or "it makes her happy to tell her and involve her in these things" so I wouldn't really consider my emotions. As I got older and retrospectively was uncomfortable about this, I found it very difficult to stop. And even now, when I am around her or on the telephone to her, anything I withold from her, I feel like a bad person and like I am wrong to have a life separate to her.
I can relate to this. My mom felt like I had to share everything with her. No secrets about anything. She loved to gossip and if I didn't tell her everything what was going on with friends/partners and their conversations that they had with me, she would take it personally and shame me for it. Was not fully allowed privacy. If I was having a shower/bath and she wanted to use the sink, she wouldn't go to the kitchen, she would demand i open the door. When I covered up my private bits, she would make comments like "oh come on, I changed your nappy since you were a baby, you don't think I've seen your bits...whats wrong with you".
If she was having a bath, she would leave the door open. She would come out the bath and be stark naked. She would go into my brother's room and get herself dressed whilst my brother was in his room playing his video games, or doing whatever he was doing.
Really fucked up to be honest
Omg. It is mind control. It os horrible😢
My boyfriend has always been his mothers goto for emotional incest, and once he met me she swears i ruined everything, she hates me and never can give me a reason. Im afraid that it will affect our relationship forever. He deals with it by just ignoring her behavior.
She does things like keeps his siblings away from him when shes angry.
Calls me bad names, mimics the fact that he might marry me.
Hes very silent, doesnt talk more observant.
He used to hate expressing emotions but ive literally had to guide him thru and teach him that its ok to express and not everything will be anger
Sooooo much and we’ve only been together 5 years 🙄🙄🙄🙄
Hi Mishell, best case scenario is that your boyfriend, out of his love for you, will learn/begin to implement healthy boundaries with his mother.....I hope that's what he chooses, I wish you the best.....
Thank you for all the videos on emotional incest. I'm 54 and just figuring out my mother was a narcaccist and proctored emotional incest. I am totally lost in my self identify. I don't know who I really am. Working with therapist. But I am so sad and depressed that nothing was real.
You described exactly the relationship between me and my brother, thanks. Emotional incest makes a lot more sense to me than the term ‘golden child’, because a golden child never comes out unscathed (as much as discussions on the internet seem to assume), and emotional incest describes much more accurately how damaging this family dynamic is to the more ‘favoured’ child.
sister was my mom's golden child.
sister was my scapegoat.
I became narc.
later broke and become my mom's ... like I wanted to help fix her and my dad. but I became spouse.
then I became narc.
This helps me understand why I felt like, simultaneously that I was going crazy, but that everyone around me was crazy. If I ever complained about my dad, they’d chime in about how much he loves me, and how sweet his affections are for me, and suggest I go to my parents for help. Meanwhile, my dad would say I was “making things up” if I ever told him I was violated by a man or when I suffered psychosis (maybe I’m not sure) or if I was depressed. Every time I said I was sad or that I might cry he acted annoyed and told me I should stop being sad and for the sake of everyone else be happy instead. He said this when my friend was kidnapped and brutalised, losing her home and job in the aftermath. Yet, everyone else can’t see it. It’s like they’re blind, or so distracted about the glory he gives me behind my back that they can’t see how volatile he is around my negative emotions.
He read this book, “I’m ok, you’re ok.”
I think he interpreted it as, “I’m ok if you’re ok.”
Thanks for sharing your story Amy.....your comment that "if I ever complained about my dad, they’d chime in about how much he loves me" is a classic sign of Emotional Incest.
I have to stop your videos couple times before I watch it because it all makes sense and it hurts my head and I have to distract myself with something. Currently listening to Cannibal Corpse - Make Them Suffer, Caged...Contorted and Scourge of Iron. It's just so much to process and my wounds open and now I understand. There's so much grief that comes with it, the what ifs, the missed opportunities, my anti natalistic attitudes, misanthropy, depression, anxiety, feeling lost and confused.
But I'm ready to straight myself out. I don't know if it's good but I live for revenge and my revenge is to live good life for myself and away from my parents. Enough of submission.
You are the only person online who totally "gets this", probably because you lived it yourself. I married a man who was his mother's surrogate husband and it was awful. I tried so hard to help him, but he was so scared of being taken over that he denied my ability to be assertive - seeing all assertiveness as aggressiveness. He was toxic to me and I believe he transferred his hate for his mother on to me. I can't say how much this dynamic affected our marriage and children. Awful, awful, awful.
I was the parentified child by my father and I had a boyfriend once he was emotionally incested by his mother. It was a disastrous relationship dynamic between the two of us. One thing I would like to add from our experience though, we were both quite expressive of our opinions. His mother wouldn't care offending others and he was the same. My father wouldn't care for others' feelings and as a child I was the one my class room always raising my hand and not afraid of being seen. Because at the time, it was my way of receiving love and affection. Only later on, when my father also became physically abusive with me during my teenage years and was so mad at me for 'leaving him' then I started developing severe anxiety and fear of public opinion.
I like that you're aware of that "line" and how it changed after your father became physically abusive......good work on your part!
Your videos really helped me put language to what happened to me as a kid and well into my adult years. I've been in therapy and healing from this and finding my voice and stopped all contact with my parents so that I could heal. I am so happy there are videos like yours to raise awareness to this insidious form of abuse.
Thank you NaTasha! :)
It not only affects the person that has been through this but if they (the victim) now have children of their own it affected them too. Until the victim heals or finds help the effects of this will continue to fester and that's really sad. Great video ...loved both vids you did on this topic....a real eye-opener to what I'm dealing with rn... Thanks Brad!
thanks so much and glad it was helpful! :)
I watched all 3 videos you have on emotional incest. It’s a very interesting topic and feel like this is what my MIL has with my husband. I tried once talking to him or bringing up that I think his mom uses him as a surrogate spouse but he didn’t want to hear it so I just dropped the subject. But the more he puts up boundaries with his mom for our marriage it seems we get quite a push back and she will say she forgot about the boundaries and still do them. But as soon as I say anything and set the boundaries she doesn’t push them at all. His mom has been divorced twice and he’s the baby of the kids so when her 2nd marriage started to fall apart I think that when she started relying on my husband. But I think both of them are completely unaware of it.
Yes it seems you are having some GREAT insight on the family dynamics.....I'm so happy to hear that when YOU "say something" she doesn't push the boundaries at all.......any yes, the majority of affected families are completely unaware of this sick dynamic playing out within the family....thanks for watching!
Brad, thanks so much for posting about emotional incest and the toxic effects it has on us. Add my name to the list of victims ala Dear Ole Mom. Weak father who had no voice and it certainly was as you describe. The effects are precisely as you outline and yes, in tx for depression, being a doormat to obnoxious women and so much more. Again, thank you for explaining in simplistic terms the horror of this concept.
glad it was helpful.....half the battle is being willing to 'see' it and 'admit' it, and clearly you are well on your way in understanding all of this.....take care.
omg, when I went away to college, I was so depressed, I know why I run back home, I fail to run back home and hopefully get nurtured
Thank you for putting this content out in the world. It is not talked about enough and desperately needs to be. Thank you!
You're welcome!
A thought about your intamacy point...
I wonder if it always necessarily manifests in a FEAR of intimacy...I wonder if it could manifest in the complusion to CREATE intimacy!
Like....one becomes so accustomed to this boundaryless hyper-intimate relationship that anything less than that feels vulnerable, inauthentic, and impermanent....
Anyway...thank you endlessly for this supportive resource. God bless you.
Every single word you said here is trueee. No body understood what I was going through thanks for the videos.
I apparently portrayed the role of my Mother's social and emotional immature "husband".
As a smothered child who had to assume the role of "scapegoat" to feel even slightly accepted into my dysfunctional family group I was forced to assume the weight of a lot of unearned guilt over not just the things I was perceived as doing "wrong" or "imperfectly I had the hate(unearned guilt and much projected anger) projected onto me from whatever my carnal Father did that was found unacceptable.
As an adult I've done much personal growth work to regain some semblance of identity other than being a disorganized-preoccupied-anxious- codependent love avoider.
None of it has been easy, though many could claim it's a simple process and they'd be right.
It's taken years of experience and self-reflection and self-directed study of Attachment Theory, Jungian Psychology, Bernian Psychology(see... the games people play by Eric Berne).
More self-reflection and quiet time without outside distractions(covid's mixed blessing to me) like other people's agendas or to-do lists.
Then I started internalizing my own locus of control that had nothing to do with "friends or family's or an employer's agenda.
If you can relate to much I have written here please be patient and gentle with yourself.
I have back-slidden many times.
The key is of course keep getting back at the process of reclaiming your life for yourself.
No one...repeat No one will ever be a better advocate for improving the quality of your life than you.
Keep after it...the love of conscious choice.
Until the choice of self-care and betterment consistently BEATS out the choice for self-sabotage.
Good luck or May God Bless.
My mother latched on to my brother and my step-mother and father latched on to me! How sad and so misunderstood the trauma of this sickness. My brother has a lot of hidden angry at her ( she had a lot of emotional issues obviously her brother molested her.)My stepmother was so emotionally starving for intimacy with my emotionally retarded father(he had many issues )His mother died when he was 7 yrs old. I did not like the way my father interacted with me when he was around ( I felt gross being around him like he wanted to molest me or an unhealthy attraction to me. he molested his sister growing up )My dads father went to jail for rape and incest of his own daughters. My family had so many issues .I remember many things he did to me. As of now I choose to live alone and isolated. sad
Can someone be the Golden Child and Scapegoat alternating? She'd have me as a confidant, therapist but blame me for her problems. And would scream at me if I wanted to just be alone. She was angry at me for leaving home, sometimes. When I had a bipolar breakdown, she said something like "that's what you get for moving to San Francisco". But she can also be sweet and kind. Very confusing
Yes, it can alternate just as you mentioned...
Thank you for making these videos. I am only recently coming around to understand my upbringing and listening to your experiences help so much. My defense and lashing out was sneaking out at night and having sex as a way to control one part of my life. . I do believe 100% that it was the only option I had at to cope with my home life and have some sense of self and it was the only way I felt I could “be a kid”. All of my friendships were sabotaged by my mother by lying to me or fighting with my friend’s parents. For a few years in my early teens it was like I had two lives and I was very exhausted at school. It was very sad. I used to feel very shameful of it, now I don’t. I didn’t know at the time that it wasn’t an authentic me. I was scared and confused and wanted to have one thing to me, but it came and bit me in the butt multiple times. I developed a false reputation of a promiscuous and disobedient girl and my self esteem and self worth, which barely existed at all, disappeared. My ex boyfriend spread pictures of me to all of my neighbors. And I became a shell of a person. I left school. I basically checked out of life. Damn... I am much better now after I moved away from home.
Hi Hannah, my favorite sentence from what you wrote: "I used to feel very shameful of it, but now I don't." I LOVE that! It shows you're not letting your mother win----you've reclaimed your 'self'. Keep up the good work and valuable insight......
@@BradShore Thank you for responding to my comment! Is it possible for a parent to inflict this on multiple children, not just the chosen one? I think my mom did it to my brothers too and they don't know it.
Hannah Adams I know from my experience, I was the preferred one with respect to being used, but my mom would occasionally go to my brother. It is also possible to be enmeshed with both parents at one time or another. I was enmeshed with my mom up till late teens or so and then it switched to my dad until I figured out what was going on. I’ve been in therapy the last 5 years and have established healthy boundaries with my family now. It’s a lot better than it was. Best of luck on your healing journey Hannah!
As a past worker with disadvantaged/disassociated youth and recidivist young offenders, I often would see/meet family/victims where the often single mother had turned their male child son into "weapons" against anyone who pissed her off, or the type of person that the youth "believed" were like the ones who re-presented what the mother had conditioned them to believe. Anyway, a complex subject that causes complexities and complexes with and within those who have been exposed to these unhealthy family/parent dynamics. Thanks, you’re doing excellent presentation/info.... 👍🏽👍🏼👍🏾🇦🇺
Thanks for the compliment David!
A heartfelt thank you to you Mr Shore for these videos, putting this topic into the open. This really helps. All the best to you.
Thank you kindly....
Mother to daughter .....I dealt with this' having been taken over'. Being invisible is not up to the victim. We were allowed to speak up. Parts fit. I got cleared with my youth psych .In my 20's. TY
Thanks for sharing your experience Maria....
I was chosen as the scapegoat, not the princess. My sister was treated better than I was..
Yeah, this "princess" was Cinderella with ACOA issues, called the golden child....one who worked her ass off and it wasn't enough. I never heard any doting, praise, etc yet the older siblings tagged me as golden. I feared abandonment so was as good as I knew how to be. Golden.
Brad, I appreciate this discussion on emotional incest. I suffered this type of abuse all throughout early childhood starting around four years old all the way into my twenties. The topic about not having a voice really spoke to me as I have realized of late that it’s hard for me to state my opinion or say no. I also have a paralyzing fear of public speaking also. I’m a lead engineer with my company so public speaking is a necessary evil. Anyways, I noticed that you do Skype therapy according to your profile on psychology today. I would be interested in doing some sessions with you as you have experienced this abuse yourself and would have the best understanding of what struggles I’ve been enduring. I have been seeing a Christian based counselor in my area for a couple of years but I am interested in a different perspective because he’s not experienced with the covert incest component. Please let me know.
Hi Adam, glad it was helpful, and glad to see how you seem to be 'putting the pieces together' about your childhood. In answer to your question I do offer Skype counseling sessions, but I am only permitted to do that with clients who live in the state of California which is where I live (this is a rule of the Board of Behavioral Sciences that it must be in-state); let me know if you live in California(?). If not, be sure to find a therapist in the state where you live to fully explore this issue, and definitely with a therapist who has a broader perspective than what you had in the past. Best wishes to you!
Brad Shore, LMFT [Ask A Shrink!] I don’t live in California unfortunately. I should have figured it was a state licensure thing. No worries. I do appreciate the insight you bring to your videos. I wish you the best. Thanks!
thanks much Adam!
Thank you for this video! I have a question... I’ve recently been serving as a therapist/emotional support system for both my mother and father respectively (nasty divorce going on right now,) but I’m 20, and this started at 18 for me (from what I can tell.) Even though I’m not technically a child, is this still something I should try to rectify?
Hi Maggie, there's no reason a daughter of any age should be a 'therapist/emotional support system' for both of their parents, especially when there is a divorce going on. They are grown adults who chose to marry each other and they need to figure all of this out on their own. Remove yourself, both emotionally and physically if necessary, and concentrate on YOUR life, YOUR goals and YOUR dreams.......best wishes to you.
Wow it’s like you’ve been watching me throughout my life!
So sad that we were taught not to have a voice.
This was so insightful. Thank you so much. I'm really just beginning to unpack the relationship I have with my Mum, now that I'm an adult.
My mother (a shrink!! (child psychiatrist) of all things) and had this relationship with me from a young age when my father would be absent.
As the youngest child, the naturally made HUGE strife with me and my older brother.
And as an adult, all these ramifications you're talking about deeply resonate with me.
Plus, everything else you were saying in your previous video resonated SO MUCH with me, honestly.
So, thank you. Deeply.
Aloha.
You're welcome! Glad to see you're having a great deal of insight about this, and as you say 'unpacking' it. It can be a long process to unpack it all but very well worth it.......best wishes, Brad
Thank you so much!!!! Could you please make a video about narcissistic in laws? I’ve been with my husband for almost 28 years. His mother is a covert narcissist and several times tried to destroy my marriage . I’m in no contact with her, but my husband talks to her. She’s constantly manipulative by making my husband feel guilty … how come that my husband finds excuses for her bad behaviour ?? I don’t understand my husband … he’s almost 50 and craves for his mother approval .. it’s so strange .it makes me sick from my stomach …thank you so much !!!
Ya I totally got the insanity of being the Chosen One and also getting the jealousy of my siblings and my Dad who made things worse by telling them that my mom only loved me.
I never asked for that
She also made me be her defender against my father and my siblings so essentially making me her chosen one but also marking her shield. I took the most damage. It didn’t help that she can be incredibly narcissistic and would attack them and manipulate them when I wasn’t around and didn’t see it, then when they reacted to that abuse.. she would run to me about how they were abusing her and not giving me what really happened and manipulated me into defending her when she was being the abuser.
I really hate that she did that. This in Turn, made them absolutely hate me.
Also because I’m autistic.. she always treated me like I had no agency because of my autism.
Then there was the fact she really regarded me as her partner, sometimes it crossed over to physical incest
I’ve tried talking to therapists about it ..!they just kinda gloss over it and move on to other things. I’ve talked to 3 different therapists about it and same response. I don’t know how to really get it out and they don’t know what to look for
However being forced to be her protector.. I did learn to be assertive even if she forced me to take on a mother bear role.. so I don’t have a problem with being assertive
But setting boundaries I relationships is very new to me ... learning healthy emotional language is new to me.
Luckily my partner had a mostly stable home life growing up and has taught me a lot
That said ... I don’t think I will ever feel like an adult and I’m 45.
I feel like a child in an adult body
What about siblings that are incest and spending time in family reunions? Explain the physical and emotional incest between siblings. Everyone only mentions parents. What about the mother that is emotionally incestuous, a sibling that is physically incestuous. Would clumsy stealthy footsie under a dinner table be a red flag for the couple of one of the siblings?
Excellent video. My experience mirrors yours except that I received no doting or special treatment. My parents were alcoholics, she poured it on me and my step father avoided her spending his time at the Elks Lodge. lol.
This treatment really does a number on a persons ability to be intimate as an adult, youo lose your childhood and as you said, even to this day the invisability has become ingrained in me.
I was raised with emotional incest by my mom...but I was the scapegoat, I didn’t had anything to want; not allowed to say no; my opinion was laughed away and my interests were devaluated. I experience the same problems you describe. Can you do a movie about this..?
Hi there, I've made about 11 or 12 videos on Emotional Incest.......check out these other videos and maybe they will help you in answering any other questions you may have. I'm sorry you had to go through this as a child-----being a "scapegoat" only amplifies the suffering even more.
This is so relatable
I'm going through it right now I'm 64 years old and I'm the one taking care of my 85 year old mother
Thanks for your insight. A note - your audio needs to be a consistent level across making your intro music match your vocal. I almost ran off the road when your music erupted🌋. Cheers
THIS IS ABUSE REPORT IT TO COPS..THESE PARENTS NEED STRICT SUPERVISION..YOU AS A CHILD ARE A SEPARATE HUMAN WITH RIGHTS TO GOOD CARE..THIS IS OBJECTIONABLY SICK..THEY ARE OFTEN SEXUALLY ABUSED ALONG WITH THIS STYLE OF GROOMING...
Your channel deserves way more views.
Have you thought of doing a program with Amanda Bank Lees another important voice in this area.
Thank you for your work
Thanks! I can't seem to find Amanda, is on UA-cam??
@@BradShore It helps to get her name right 🤦🏽♀️
Adena Bank Lees- my apologies 😊
This describes me to a tee, but it was emotional neglect, not emotional incest. 🤔
one neglects
one overprotects
Can I get your advice?
I'm 23, I split with my narc ex boyfriend father of my only child, about 3 yrs ago. Domestic violence aside from the question, I live in my own unit with my toddler, I get cranky and I tell him ..I'm sad.. IFi am because he asks if I'm okay, but I don't talk about why and I sort of wave him off to keep playing as he was, whilst I do what ever I was doing aswel,
Until I'm then ready to make plans to go out and then we go on adventures etc, he goes to daycare's in and off due to reasons out of my control,
I have no family or friend support.. Non of which are my fault, I call phone helplines when I want or need emotional support. Am I doing this right? I don't want to be emotionally incest to my son, I don't want to rob him of his innocence.
Hi Candice it sounds like you're doing fine, and you have good insight as to what Emotional Incest is all about (i.e. when you say "I don't talk about why and I sort of waive him off").......that's a great response, you're naming your feeling which is appropriate but then not continuing into emotionally unloading on him in any way. Keep up the good work----keep the focus on his developmental needs, not yours. Take care and best wishes!
@@BradShore thank you for your encouragement 💓
🖐. Me, parentified oldest of 4, parents textbook narcissistic father codependent mother.
Do you have any recommendations on what sort of therapy or therapist victims of covert sexual abuse should look into? I want to see someone but I’m also worried that this topic is very specialized? Thank you so much. 🙏
Hi Siobhan, it's a good rule of thumb to talk with/interview several licensed therapists before you start therapy----ask them if they're familiar with a "psychodynamic" approach---a Behavioral or Cognitive Behavioral (CBT) approach is not as helpful with this issue in my opinion. Let the therapist know that one of the primary issues you'll be bringing up is related to having been emotionally smothered by a parent, and watch to see if they seem familiar with and/or comfortable with dealing with this topic. It's also a good idea to ask a therapist if they're still in their own individual therapy with their own personal therapist. The most competent therapists, in my opinion, continue with their own therapy throughout their career as a therapist. Go with your gut feeling as to whether you feel safe with the therapist and that they truly understand your core issue. You are the interviewer and get to pick the best therapist for you. Best wishes to you on your journey of discovery!
Brad Shore, LMFT [Ask A Shrink!] Thank you so much, Brad! This is so helpful. You are truly making the world a better place. 👏
HELP
can the parent switch the golden child ...?
younger sister moved out
and I tried to take care of my parents.. mom said it's not right.
but I said let me.
also. sister was protected from narc dad. but mom is co depentant. and narc-ish too
I think I am a victim of this problem. I live in Europe (Czech Republic/Germany area) any idea where to go for any kind of therapy ?
Look/Ask/Google in your area----or perhaps you can do online/Skype therapy with a licensed professional. The main thing is to begin working through your feelings with a therapist, even if the therapist is only vaguely aware of Emotional Incest. Best wishes to you....
This situation is the exact thing that is going on with my 42 year old boyfriend and his mom. She always likes to control him and tell him what to do. Everything she says is right everyone else is wrong. 😭😭 I love him what should i do???
You can only control yourself......there's a good chance he'll permit this the rest of his life.....so the question is not about him----the question is about whether or not YOU'RE willing to tolerate this in a partner....
@@BradShore what a great answer
Parental alienated parents do this to the child.Cluster B
Yep
Thank you so much, this was really hepful. I'll tell my story when I'm ready.
Looking forward to hearing your story.....
This video hits close to home. Well said!
thank you Elizabeth!
Can u please do a video on what happens after the mother dies?....how does this effect the son?
Every freaking one! ..thank you
.I love your channel and wisdom..much love..x
Thanks for the compliment Angel!
Sept îles Québec Canada
Thank you so much for these videos!
Thanks for watching!
My mom recently made me buy her a vibrator cause she is too embarrassed... please tell me thats some sick shit...
1at I was flattered that we have super deep relationship but now that Ive been watching all these videos Y feel used, disgusted gross my stomach feels sick with this whole sibjetc... i am married now, live in another country with my husband and kids and i dread talking to my mother... she acts like a child its fucking disgusting, she is almost 60 and now that Im not there my younge rbrothers are now used for emotional incest to vent from her repressed marriage with a man that is 15hyrs younger than ger and always has been so full of drama... i feel for my brothers cause I can tell they are getting sick all the time, struggle with depression etc...
very good video..thank you for it
Great ovne
Thank you for this.
You're welcome----thanks for watching!
Omg 😮😢. This is me. 😓
I know of 2 twenty plus year old girls that have this but both of them are quite the opposite of your video. They demand control cuz daddy gave them control over the house.
chakra healings help me alot
Fantastic!
Sept îles Québec Canada yurky
😐