Excellent job with this video. My father has been with NetJets for over 20 years and with those 20 years of service he’s missed half my life. He’s missed countless holidays, birthdays and family events all for this job to treat him like a cog in the machine with little to no respect. The pilot group has always suffered at NetJets and you all deserve better. Don’t back down from this fight!!
The difference was the bar to entry at NJ used to be pretty high just to get your foot in the door. Now they’re taking less experienced pilots than they ever have. It works out in my favor, but I completely understand these senior pilots’ grievances and respect their knowledge and experience.
True, we all have to learn, but when NJA hires a min time 1,000 flight instructor, who’s NEVER flown at the flight levels, and NJA mins use to be 2,500 that is a 60% decrease in experience. That’s a lot of lost experience.
it's not just that... they're hiring people just because they have a pulse, just because you got all your certs and flight time doesn't mean you're good at it or are willing to become better at it. I've had both types as FOs, I've flown with people who have no business being in a jet and the companies know it.
@@VictoryAviationit’s funny that in most of the developed world you can get into the right hand seat of commercial planes much bigger than what NJ flies and responsible for >230 pax with 250 hours but American pilots aren’t considered capable before 1000s of hours
@@abingdonboy I think ATP minimums are a joke tbh. That being said, it used to be that you needed WELL above ATP minimums to get hired on at NJ. That was not by accident. It was to ensure pilots getting hired already knew what time it was. It decreased the chances for a pilot that had no business being there.
I had 40 years at Ozark, Midway, TWA and AA. During every contract negotiation, I voted no. Airlines’ offers were never enough. Draw a line in the sand; 100% of netjet pilots call in sick. Only then, will you get what you should/deserve! Rich people who charter, should care about their safety. They should tell Berkshire/Buffett, to competitively compensate their highly experienced pilots. Retention is important, otherwise they’ll have many fewer experienced pilots transporting the rich and famous! Go, Dan Cary!👍🏻
I ‘retired’ after 18 years with NJA in February 2020 at age 69… really bad timing thanks to COVID… and I always thought it was ludicrous that NJA, a Berkshire Hathaway company didn’t have an actual ‘retirement’ plan. I still feel NJA was the best company I ever worked for, however, it took the pilot group to stand firm on multiple occasions and contract negotiations to ‘force’ the company to finally come accross with a reasonably fair contract. I wish you all good luck… the work, the hours and the conditions with which NJA crews have to operate is incredibly challenging and the risks and liability is much higher than any mainline airline job.
Back in the 90's at the commuter airlines, we flew turboprops in and out of the worlds busiest airports to smaller uncontrolled airports working 12+ hour days at 25,000 or less (in the wx). with lots of schedule changes. But we made $16,000/year.
Netjets only hire military with 3000 hours not 10 years ago, really cant believe anybody is complaining at 120k per year....btw the GI bill pays for 90 percent of flight school flying, let that sink in tax payer
This fatigue issue is also across many budget airlines especially in the Middle East. Fly Dubai I’ve heard nightmares about from Pilot friends from when I was living in the uae for so many years. I was also required to fly them on business trips so that was never a great exp. Good luck to these pilots.
As an American Airlines pilot, we are not eliminating 1st class. Second is Net Jets has always been a fallback job for pilots that didn’t get hired at a major or a place for a retired major captain to go after 65. Third is that many great corporate flight departments closed because net jets offered a contract financially cheaper than operating a in house flight department.
If I was a fractional owner....I'd be raising hell with NetJets. If I'm paying a load of money for a 1/4 or 1/8th ownership...I DON'T want limited experience up front!
Back in my early pilot days in the 90s and 2000s, you needed space shuttle time to get a good job, now, wow. I fully understand getting more money, but these pilots at least have options. Wish the profession was like this way back when.
I agree that they deserve far more pay...I seriously do. So, hearing one of their pilots tell an outright lie that they have heard mainline pilots say they only work six to seven hours a day is SO not helpful. He said he works twelve to thirteen hours a day. So did I. At a major carrier, for my entire career. six to seven hour days were abnormal. Come on guys, I'm pulling for you...don't do this kind of BS propaganda. Be factual. Like a pilot.
I've worked for a number of airlines and private jet outfits in Asia. The duty days are far longer in the private jet world and these NJ pilots deserve a better compensation like their airline counterparts for sure!
Very interesting. I work for a European low-cost. There are many differences but also many similarities here. Many good points to take home. A good buddy is a senior skipper with NetJets, so good luck
120k for 7 days on 7 days off is not highway robbery.....go work for spirit if that is your dream. And single engines ain't in your way tuff guy, they pay taxes as well and can use the airport fookhead. NetBabies.....back in my day netjets would not look at your resume with 5000 hours unless you were military....quit your beaching captain.
Not completely convincing … but the bottom line is costs ie inflation of everything has gone up. Major airlines are paying more and you all should go for it! Same story over and over and over again. Good luck.
I've flown with netjets a few times and the staff was very friendly and they went out of their way to make me comfortable! They deserve what international pilots with huge airlines make!
@@HedgeflexlfzHope you’re not a parent. Horrible life lesson and attitude. You may not want to fight for what you deserve and let the world walk all over you but normal people with self respect don’t do that.
@@PietenpolNX899TDcorporate aviation has always been like this. One could spend their life trying to change the way the entire industry works, or simply find an existing job that suits them better. One of these options is less stressful than the other. I think that's what the other person was trying to say, just in a shorter statement. I currently work for an air cargo company and it's nice to do a walkaround, then get on board and turn left. Cockpit setup, wait for the final paperwork, then go fly.
Guess what guys? Those low time pilots are being hired at the airlines too. CFIs are entry level pilots at the airlines now. And if you think that your schedule will get better at the airlines, think again. Sitting on reserve is terrible. And it could last awhile. Better off going to GoJet and be a street Captain with longevity and a nice bonus!
However, fractional pilots do A LOT more then an airline pilot. Schedules at a fraction are constantly changed and sometimes mid-flight. The days of building block learning are gone.
The guy that said this airline was owned by Berkshire Hathaway said it all. I have tried to think of one company that they have grown besides shareholders pockets. I can name countless companies they have run into the ground or even pilfered and shut down completely. I’m not saying they have done anything illegal. I’m making an observation.
I quit flying professionally and now make 3X the money I ever made as a Lear pilot. I'm home every night, I'm here for my children, I can have a beer at lunch and I don't have to answer the phone. I also own a '47 Bonanza, which I could have never afforded on the pay of a profession pilot. It's been a long time since flying was a positive way to make a living.
You can't raise your children remotely. I would never fly for a 121 carrier. I have two 121 captains as current customers and they always comment that they are jealous of my current arrangement. I restore Porsches for a living these days.@@burncycle4621
Most don’t realize the scope of Netjets. It’s the largest fractional in the world , they have somewhere in the neighborhood of 800 aircraft with hundreds more on order. That rivals nearly any of the major airlines and certainly the regional carriers. The support staff and logistics to run this I would say are far and beyond the scope of the airlines.
Lots of stuff here I agree with but simple math tells you that what you are asking for will never be given. The majors can pay what they pay because they have the revenue generated by 200-300 seats paid for every flight. You don’t generate that kind of revenue per flight. They might pay it but if they do, probably won’t survive as a business.
Try "Quitting" when you already have a house and homebase setup. I can just tell my wife outta nowhere "I quit.....don't worry it will work itself out" xD
These Netjet drivers do realize the airline guys are crying just as much about their treatment ,company problems and have threatened strikes right? I have been around 60 years and can't remember any pilot and management group love-fests.
I think anyone who’s done both side of the industry can make the comparison. Listen to the video, not hear it, and you’ll get the differences. No one at NJA is saying airline pilots don’t work or don’t work hard. They are saying they do more, and they do, and deserve better compensation as their employer makes huge profits.
I'd guess most netjet pilots made this choice because they weren't flying the same place everyday. They knew when they took the job it paid less than the airlines and required more than just flying the plane. This just seems like whining, If you don't like it the airlines will take you right now.
I wonder if Pilot Pip of the Plane Safety podcast in the UK has watched this, and what his feelings are. Probably no-comment because we don't really know who he flies for.✈☠🤔
This pilot shortage problems are also in the major airlines for mechanics 10 years ago the ratio for experienced mechanics was 80% to 20% non experienced and today it is totally reversed because most older guys are fed up with management attitude as managers look at only how many mechanics they have and not the experienced ones are leaving at an alarming rate most new hires have never worked on an airplane or they have only worked on small single engine Cessnas piston engines and they’re experienced level is about 1-2 years this is very concerning for safety and its not if a major tragedy will occur but when as there isn’t enough experienced mechanics left to train these new hires but management cover their ears and don’t want to hear it I am glad I will retire soon after 39 years at this crummy profession
I hear individuals complaining that their investment in a company isn't showing the same results. If you want to get paid the same as elsewhere, go there to experience that. All of this video is complaining about mainly the job experience, none of these comments makes sense why you'd continue to be there?
you know, I get sick of hearing about "experience" and how pilots need 10,000 hours to "be safe". BS. I watch and read the accident reports and videos- PICS with 5,000+ hours still making rookie mistakes, killing everyone onboard. Too bad we as a nation don't put that same "needing experience" BS for 18 year olds with 5 months of training into a combat zone.
To be fair, it seems to me that he was referring to tasks that deserve compensation. Flying a jet, single engine guys are “in the way” a lot. He wasn’t dogging single engine pilots.
He's talking about going into places that don't get a lot of jet traffic and the difficulties associated with such. Zero arrogance there. You've simply projected your own insecurities.
Zero arrogance. Flying into and out of an uncontrolled field or (let’s say) Vero Beach in a Global with a 120KIAS REF speed while single engine aircraft is all around is unnerving and challenging.
Older pilots talking down about less experienced pilots is sickening, like they just got thousands of hours in a couple days and already knew what to do. I’m in the same position and no one will hire me with low flight time. Netjets need to fire all these old crabby bast*$ds and let us young low time pilots step up. These old pilots should be fired, and them looking down on us isn’t helping the pilot shortage. Anyone interested in being a pilot stay away, you’ll be $120,000+ plus in debt, 5-10+ years of training and will still not get hired. I love flying but would never do it over again.
121 is a like factory job huh? Yet you had another person in this same video say it doesn’t matter whether you fly 200 people or 2 people . All contradictory bull shit. No fact of the matter is you have to fly the the 737 jus as good as you have to fly citation no matter what the conditions. And it’s because we’re flying 198 extra passengers is why the factory job is jus as critical . Local news and blancolirio will come out to report 5 bodies at a crash a site…..everybody!! will come out to report 200 bodies and 7 crew at a crash site. So give me a damn break
Cant take the heat get out of the kitchen. BLANCO, FANS and company have done nothing wrong. Your on public airspace and runway. NETJETS pilots are being babies.....Just give two week notice and bounce......
If we have to have 1500 hours and an ATP to be a private jet pilot, I don't see how the hell anyone would want to do it, to have to be a sky server, I personally just want to be a pilot not a sky janitor.
Clearly you don't belong in the private jet business, fractional or not. There are plenty of pilot jobs where you won't have to clean the plane. Go find one. There are plenty of pilots willing to do the wide variety of things the job requires. Maybe because of the equipment, maybe because of the "owner" passengers and/or their lifestyle, maybe because of the variety of destinations and flying, or 100 other reasons. For sure, if the pluses don't outweigh the minuses, find a different job more to your liking.
People want to know their pilots. There are a lot very experienced 91 pilots. Asking those pilots to leave their 2-3 plane max operations, flying the same people, from the airport down the street is a lot more attractive than airline like schedule the Netjets guys do. If these guys aren't happy, why aren't they doing real part 91 work?
There is no connection between pay and qualifications. It’s a supply and demand issue. If your airline is running just fine (and even growing), then your pay scale is appropriate, you are not worth a 60% pay raise.
Am I the only one that's hearing, "Pilots are in crazy high demand" and then "NetJets needs to do better"... well it seems like you've already solved your own problems, not sure why you're striking when you can bounce to a nicer job.
Seniority doesn’t transfer, you’d be starting at the bottom level of a major airline effectively cutting your pay in half if not more, and putting yourself at risk of furlough should the economy go south. It would take probably 3-5 years to get back the pay, and security you gave up.
So if NetJets has so many problems and the legacy carriers are paying so much more, why not just go to them and put NetJets out of business due to lack of pilot? This makes no sense. If there are enough pilots where this is a problem, just start their own competing service to NetJets. Nobody is holding a gun to the heads of these people and forcing them to take these jobs. One guy asks for a 60% raise across the board. He’s Looney. AA is discontinuing first class service because the space of a first class seat is not worth the square footage it takes up. Business class and premium economy are the bread and butter of legacy carriers. What are these guys smoking, the cost of fuel has spiked so much so that airlines are now charging passengers $200-$600 or more in a fuel surcharge on their tickets. Prices are sky high. And with the continued issues around the world, the conflict in Ukraine, Saudi Arabia at max pumping and refining capacity, and the Obama-Biden administration restricting pumping capacity domestically, the fuel prices are only going to go up further. If you don’t like it, just go somewhere else. Chinese airlines are paying $350,000/year for qualified pilots. Emirates is paying big money, so is Qatar, so is Japan Airlines, so is Singapore airlines.
The rule seems to be when you work for a paycheck, you are not in charge of how big those checks are. It's a tougher road initially and even during, but find a way to make money outside of being a pro pilot. Should you succeed at that, couldn't you purchase an aircraft that fits your lifestyle and fly that on your own time, when you are refreshed, relaxed and really ready to fly? It's kinda of ironic that the wealthy, who can afford net jets aircraft services, are being flown by the most disgruntled pilots, apparently. That will ultimately lead to a safety and focus issue in the cockpit. Focus, concentration, awareness, checklist style decision making, good judgement and ability to execute. These need to be all present in the cock pit 100% of the time. These pilot's have to carry luggage and clean the cabin? Shouldn't pilots be planning alternative landing routes, what if scenarios for engine failure on takeoff, etc. ? That's kind of a joke really, a sad joke because the pilot should be 100% focused on preflight before the flight, and flight during the flight. For everyone's sake, if you don't want to be in that cockpit because of low pay, find something else to do, and fly yourselves or your family as a pastime or lifestyle choice.
I spoke with Netjets recruiters at NGPA and just laughed at them. I asked why in the world would anyone go there, and what kind of applicants do they get. He answered they get lots of older family oriented guys who wanted the 7/7 schedule...
Unions aren’t rare in the airline industry I just don’t see private jet operations unionizing. I have the impression their customers might be more price sensitive and will just return to flying commercial.
Safe to say i'll never be flying netjets🤣, but that being said I worked at places like this, and after 21 yrs I left best frigging day of my life, life is to short to live with being treated like this
It’s the same everywhere .. as a retired AA international captain hired in 1986 I upgraded to captain 1997 I was a military trained pilot and 90% of my class was military My peers still working tell me “At AA new hires are upgrading to 737 Captain in 3 years . Many they wouldn’t put their family on the jet flown by these former FO The generic AA wide body Captain is pulling down $400K per year now
It's how I explain it to my non-aviation, friends and family. There are qualified, and experienced pilots. Airlines want the cheapest qualified pilots they can get away with. Then they will look at hiring experience in their hiring practices.
Listen, I understand the need for a pay increase and support pay increases but NJASP literally rejected a 52% pay increase! Sorry but no sympathy when you reject such a massive pay increase especially when your contract which you agreed to runs out by 2029. I just see a bunch of angry children that they arent getting paid massive wages for running a charter operation.
Aviation is a business. The people who run the company know lower experience will shorten the time between now and the next fatal accident. They've run the numbers and know if that happens they'll still make lots of money. That is their bottom line. Planes will crash. The CEO and PR guys will handle the blowback, and if they do that well they'll be given raises.
Executive team and shareholders getting the majority of profits and everyone else is mearly an expense/employee. Only way out of the rat race is to start your own company and become executive...which is challenging.
This is what it is; babies, try doing 270 days away per year with 24hr flight duty periods and 36hr crew duty days for 10 or 15 years. Do that in a 60 year old POS you have to always fly with deferred maintenance issues. NetJets has it right, buy stock in the company and you will see your pay increase. Or get out of the way for a younger hungry pilot to gain experience and you go drive a part 121 bus.
Of course, the fucking faa with their 1500 hours minimum rule is fucking things up and then if you're lucky and find a "low-hour" job, you're still needing over 800 hours in multi-engine/turboprop/jet.
Right, that's why a friend got hired by a regional the month month after he turned 21 with just over 1500 hours. Mostly built his time working as a CFI. Try again......
I'm bummed for these pilots. They signed up for a gig that pays over 100k, thinking they'd just be zooming in jets for a 9-5 shift. But nope, they also gotta clean planes and put bags on the plane. And on top of that, they're hardly ever home because they're always on the go. I mean, shouldn't someone have given them the heads up about all this travel before they committed to flight school? Sure, it seems obvious but maybe it needed to be said more times. They say working for airlines pays well and has a good quality of life. It's in the news that commercial airlines are in desperate need of pilots. But yet these Netjet pilots are still working for a company when it seems like an easy transition. I think maybe the pilots that stuck around are in a good place but just want money. Making 100k+ and not being able to afford to live just means these families are living above their mean. Imagine firefighters, military soldiers getting paid half what pilots make and they work so much harder. Stop complaining. If you don't like the company you work for then move on. especially if there is a high demand for what you do elsewhere.
They keep talking about experience. How the hell are you going to get experience being a CFI for am extended period of time. This shit coast a stupid amount of money to get this CPL. Amd you want us to Pay that money and then make shit money for years and then go to net jets and still make shit money, when we have the option to go to a airline and make big money.
This makes no sense. Netjets sells a premium service to extremely wealthy people and they can't pay their pilots decently? Extreme greed at its worst. There is no pilot shortage, there is a shortage of jobs that pay well enough and get enough respect for people entering the workforce to choose to pay for pilot training. Don't pay well and treat your pilots like sh*t and you won't have any pilots.
Excellent job with this video. My father has been with NetJets for over 20 years and with those 20 years of service he’s missed half my life. He’s missed countless holidays, birthdays and family events all for this job to treat him like a cog in the machine with little to no respect. The pilot group has always suffered at NetJets and you all deserve better. Don’t back down from this fight!!
That is sad to hear, and I’m sorry abt that, no disrespect when asking but why didn’t he move to an airline job or just leave Netjets?
thats his problem. No one forced him to be a pilot
I love how experienced pilots seem to forget they were once inexperienced pilots who benefited from learning from experienced pilots.
The difference was the bar to entry at NJ used to be pretty high just to get your foot in the door. Now they’re taking less experienced pilots than they ever have. It works out in my favor, but I completely understand these senior pilots’ grievances and respect their knowledge and experience.
True, we all have to learn, but when NJA hires a min time 1,000 flight instructor, who’s NEVER flown at the flight levels, and NJA mins use to be 2,500 that is a 60% decrease in experience.
That’s a lot of lost experience.
it's not just that... they're hiring people just because they have a pulse, just because you got all your certs and flight time doesn't mean you're good at it or are willing to become better at it. I've had both types as FOs, I've flown with people who have no business being in a jet and the companies know it.
@@VictoryAviationit’s funny that in most of the developed world you can get into the right hand seat of commercial planes much bigger than what NJ flies and responsible for >230 pax with 250 hours but American pilots aren’t considered capable before 1000s of hours
@@abingdonboy I think ATP minimums are a joke tbh. That being said, it used to be that you needed WELL above ATP minimums to get hired on at NJ. That was not by accident. It was to ensure pilots getting hired already knew what time it was. It decreased the chances for a pilot that had no business being there.
I had 40 years at Ozark, Midway, TWA and AA. During every contract negotiation, I voted no. Airlines’ offers were never enough. Draw a line in the sand; 100% of netjet pilots call in sick. Only then, will you get what you should/deserve! Rich people who charter, should care about their safety. They should tell Berkshire/Buffett, to competitively compensate their highly experienced pilots. Retention is important, otherwise they’ll have many fewer experienced pilots transporting the rich and famous! Go, Dan Cary!👍🏻
You’re my hero sir. Thank you for your service !
Well done.
I ‘retired’ after 18 years with NJA in February 2020 at age 69… really bad timing thanks to COVID… and I always thought it was ludicrous that NJA, a Berkshire Hathaway company didn’t have an actual ‘retirement’ plan. I still feel NJA was the best company I ever worked for, however, it took the pilot group to stand firm on multiple occasions and contract negotiations to ‘force’ the company to finally come accross with a reasonably fair contract. I wish you all good luck… the work, the hours and the conditions with which NJA crews have to operate is incredibly challenging and the risks and liability is much higher than any mainline airline job.
You dont fly 500 passengers in one day so how would a corporate baby like you know what challenges and risk are associated with it
Excellent content. Great video and summary of the challenges.
Excellent video
Fantastic production job and portraying the current labor dispute. This video says a lot
Back in the 90's at the commuter airlines, we flew turboprops in and out of the worlds busiest airports to smaller uncontrolled airports working 12+ hour days at 25,000 or less (in the wx). with lots of schedule changes. But we made $16,000/year.
Netjets only hire military with 3000 hours not 10 years ago, really cant believe anybody is complaining at 120k per year....btw the GI bill pays for 90 percent of flight school flying, let that sink in tax payer
This fatigue issue is also across many budget airlines especially in the Middle East. Fly Dubai I’ve heard nightmares about from Pilot friends from when I was living in the uae for so many years. I was also required to fly them on business trips so that was never a great exp. Good luck to these pilots.
Oh my, if netjets goes away, who will bring Tiffany and chad to vail
As an American Airlines pilot, we are not eliminating 1st class. Second is Net Jets has always been a fallback job for pilots that didn’t get hired at a major or a place for a retired major captain to go after 65. Third is that many great corporate flight departments closed because net jets offered a contract financially cheaper than operating a in house flight department.
If I was a fractional owner....I'd be raising hell with NetJets. If I'm paying a load of money for a 1/4 or 1/8th ownership...I DON'T want limited experience up front!
Back in my early pilot days in the 90s and 2000s, you needed space shuttle time to get a good job, now, wow. I fully understand getting more money, but these pilots at least have options. Wish the profession was like this way back when.
Great video!
I agree that they deserve far more pay...I seriously do. So, hearing one of their pilots tell an outright lie that they have heard mainline pilots say they only work six to seven hours a day is SO not helpful. He said he works twelve to thirteen hours a day. So did I. At a major carrier, for my entire career. six to seven hour days were abnormal. Come on guys, I'm pulling for you...don't do this kind of BS propaganda. Be factual. Like a pilot.
Interesting to hear that. I’m part 91 corporate so I didn’t know but that didn’t ring true.
Depends on you airline. I pulled up to the gate at 5 am ..push back at 556 … blocked in my last leg at 1144.
Just go guys! You have control.
I've worked for a number of airlines and private jet outfits in Asia. The duty days are far longer in the private jet world and these NJ pilots deserve a better compensation like their airline counterparts for sure!
The world's greatest investor definitely knows how to squeeze his employees
This is a fantastic Video. Makes me sick I intended to make Netjets my final stop. I had to move on for better schedule and pay.
Oooof. This makes me reconsider applying to 135 operators.
Same. I’m really worried about being restricted on what I can fly commercially outside of my full time job though.
135 got me where I needed to go quickly. 121 now and have no regrets.
There’s one truth about pilots, they will always tell you how underpaid they are. Signed…a pilot.
Very interesting. I work for a European low-cost. There are many differences but also many similarities here. Many good points to take home. A good buddy is a senior skipper with NetJets, so good luck
120k for 7 days on 7 days off is not highway robbery.....go work for spirit if that is your dream. And single engines ain't in your way tuff guy, they pay taxes as well and can use the airport fookhead. NetBabies.....back in my day netjets would not look at your resume with 5000 hours unless you were military....quit your beaching captain.
Not completely convincing … but the bottom line is costs ie inflation of everything has gone up. Major airlines are paying more and you all should go for it! Same story over and over and over again. Good luck.
Got distracted by the 747 and 737 cockpit footage when describing Netjets flying. Not what I'd expect for quality production.
I've flown with netjets a few times and the staff was very friendly and they went out of their way to make me comfortable! They deserve what international pilots with huge airlines make!
This explains what nobody realizes. We don't get to just board the plane and turn left.
Then go somewhere else
@@HedgeflexlfzHope you’re not a parent. Horrible life lesson and attitude. You may not want to fight for what you deserve and let the world walk all over you but normal people with self respect don’t do that.
@@PietenpolNX899TDcorporate aviation has always been like this. One could spend their life trying to change the way the entire industry works, or simply find an existing job that suits them better. One of these options is less stressful than the other. I think that's what the other person was trying to say, just in a shorter statement. I currently work for an air cargo company and it's nice to do a walkaround, then get on board and turn left. Cockpit setup, wait for the final paperwork, then go fly.
Guess what guys? Those low time pilots are being hired at the airlines too. CFIs are entry level pilots at the airlines now. And if you think that your schedule will get better at the airlines, think again. Sitting on reserve is terrible. And it could last awhile. Better off going to GoJet and be a street Captain with longevity and a nice bonus!
However, fractional pilots do A LOT more then an airline pilot.
Schedules at a fraction are constantly changed and sometimes mid-flight.
The days of building block learning are gone.
So quit, and become an airline pilot. It's a free country. @@HoldTheLine1990
Seniority is present at all jobs.. you have to take your turn and that includes reserve more newbies come in.
The guy that said this airline was owned by Berkshire Hathaway said it all. I have tried to think of one company that they have grown besides shareholders pockets. I can name countless companies they have run into the ground or even pilfered and shut down completely. I’m not saying they have done anything illegal. I’m making an observation.
BINGO !!!!!!!
Geico
Corporate pilots always catered and served the boss/owners. Just like chauffeur in luxury cars cars while bus drivers don't.
I quit flying professionally and now make 3X the money I ever made as a Lear pilot. I'm home every night, I'm here for my children, I can have a beer at lunch and I don't have to answer the phone. I also own a '47 Bonanza, which I could have never afforded on the pay of a profession pilot. It's been a long time since flying was a positive way to make a living.
Maybe not as a Lear pilot, but as an airline pilot, you can make a damn good living. You can easily afford a bonanza not long into your stint.
Airlines pay military pilots top dollar....All CFI hour builders got a tuff road ahead of him. Pilot job suck for non military applicants
You can't raise your children remotely. I would never fly for a 121 carrier. I have two 121 captains as current customers and they always comment that they are jealous of my current arrangement. I restore Porsches for a living these days.@@burncycle4621
What do you do for a living?
@@robertd7073 Pure ignorance that I’d guess is coming from second or third hand knowledge based on a gripe you once heard.
Flying FlexJet until Netjet can get their ducks in order.
Given the differences in scale of operations, how do NetJet pilots expect to get paid like mainline pilots? Genuinely curious.... THx
It is the same as the WNBA and 'female' USA soccer team.
Most don’t realize the scope of Netjets. It’s the largest fractional in the world , they have somewhere in the neighborhood of 800 aircraft with hundreds more on order. That rivals nearly any of the major airlines and certainly the regional carriers. The support staff and logistics to run this I would say are far and beyond the scope of the airlines.
Supply and demand, leave if it’s rubbish…
Lots of stuff here I agree with but simple math tells you that what you are asking for will never be given. The majors can pay what they pay because they have the revenue generated by 200-300 seats paid for every flight. You don’t generate that kind of revenue per flight. They might pay it but if they do, probably won’t survive as a business.
💯 just being realistic.
That's what I was thinking as well.
Keep fighting the good fight! Stay strong
I’m sorry, but I would love to have your job, and the pay. So many others share my sentiments, I’m sure.
Why are pilots not leaving Netjets if things are so bad ?
Try "Quitting" when you already have a house and homebase setup. I can just tell my wife outta nowhere "I quit.....don't worry it will work itself out" xD
Some are. Many more will. Most hope that things will get better and they won't have to.
You apply and get a new job first, then quit. Man up. @@FlightX101
@@FlightX101 That's your problem not the company.
These Netjet drivers do realize the airline guys are crying just as much about their treatment ,company problems and have threatened strikes right? I have been around 60 years and can't remember any pilot and management group love-fests.
Except NJ is getting paid much less in comparison to work much more. Their grievances have a great deal of merit.
I think anyone who’s done both side of the industry can make the comparison.
Listen to the video, not hear it, and you’ll get the differences.
No one at NJA is saying airline pilots don’t work or don’t work hard.
They are saying they do more, and they do, and deserve better compensation as their employer makes huge profits.
I'd guess most netjet pilots made this choice because they weren't flying the same place everyday. They knew when they took the job it paid less than the airlines and required more than just flying the plane. This just seems like whining, If you don't like it the airlines will take you right now.
If you love flying and want to be a boss how about starting or buying a charter company.?
News alert - management serves the shareholders. In this case a billionaire and a bunch of people that own small pieces of jets.
These guys all said there is a pilot shortage yet instead of moving to greener pastures they stay in a job they are not happy being at. Not logical.
for real.
I’m not sure what they’re hoping to achieve with this video
Excellent video. It is sad to watch how far this company has fallen from the Legacy carriers.😢
They talk about experience. Where do they expect to find new guys with experience?
Way back in 2001 I interviewed and was hired by net jets. I declined, glad I did.
I wonder if Pilot Pip of the Plane Safety podcast in the UK has watched this, and what his feelings are. Probably no-comment because we don't really know who he flies for.✈☠🤔
It’s warren buffet. Warm and smiles on camera but ruthless in business. Not my favorite guy.
This pilot shortage problems are also in the major airlines for mechanics 10 years ago the ratio for experienced mechanics was 80% to 20% non experienced and today it is totally reversed because most older guys are fed up with management attitude as managers look at only how many mechanics they have and not the experienced ones are leaving at an alarming rate most new hires have never worked on an airplane or they have only worked on small single engine Cessnas piston engines and they’re experienced level is about 1-2 years this is very concerning for safety and its not if a major tragedy will occur but when as there isn’t enough experienced mechanics left to train these new hires but management cover their ears and don’t want to hear it I am glad I will retire soon after 39 years at this crummy profession
Come on now. The size of the equipment and income productivity generated always reflects in pay.
nah, now it's going to be demand on labor supply, deal with it.
I hear individuals complaining that their investment in a company isn't showing the same results. If you want to get paid the same as elsewhere, go there to experience that. All of this video is complaining about mainly the job experience, none of these comments makes sense why you'd continue to be there?
How is the young pilot supposed to get the time you pass your experience along
you know, I get sick of hearing about "experience" and how pilots need 10,000 hours to "be safe". BS. I watch and read the accident reports and videos- PICS with 5,000+ hours still making rookie mistakes, killing everyone onboard.
Too bad we as a nation don't put that same "needing experience" BS for 18 year olds with 5 months of training into a combat zone.
Yep, it’s sobering that the head of AOPA Safety Institute died last week in a plane crash. It can happen to anyone at any time.
Buffet should share the wealth...
Millionaires and billionaires watch every penny and you guys are just their drivers. So not shocked by the treatment.
“Single engine guys that are in your way”. What arrogance. Don’t forget you used to be single engine guys.
To be fair, it seems to me that he was referring to tasks that deserve compensation. Flying a jet, single engine guys are “in the way” a lot. He wasn’t dogging single engine pilots.
Agree!
He's talking about going into places that don't get a lot of jet traffic and the difficulties associated with such. Zero arrogance there. You've simply projected your own insecurities.
Zero arrogance. Flying into and out of an uncontrolled field or (let’s say) Vero Beach in a Global with a 120KIAS REF speed while single engine aircraft is all around is unnerving and challenging.
He's been hanging around with rich guys too much. That kind of talk is contagious.
Older pilots talking down about less experienced pilots is sickening, like they just got thousands of hours in a couple days and already knew what to do. I’m in the same position and no one will hire me with low flight time. Netjets need to fire all these old crabby bast*$ds and let us young low time pilots step up. These old pilots should be fired, and them looking down on us isn’t helping the pilot shortage. Anyone interested in being a pilot stay away, you’ll be $120,000+ plus in debt, 5-10+ years of training and will still not get hired. I love flying but would never do it over again.
121 is a like factory job huh? Yet you had another person in this same video say it doesn’t matter whether you fly 200 people or 2 people . All contradictory bull shit. No fact of the matter is you have to fly the the 737 jus as good as you have to fly citation no matter what the conditions. And it’s because we’re flying 198 extra passengers is why the factory job is jus as critical . Local news and blancolirio will come out to report 5 bodies at a crash a site…..everybody!! will come out to report 200 bodies and 7 crew at a crash site. So give me a damn break
Cant take the heat get out of the kitchen. BLANCO, FANS and company have done nothing wrong. Your on public airspace and runway. NETJETS pilots are being babies.....Just give two week notice and bounce......
If we have to have 1500 hours and an ATP to be a private jet pilot, I don't see how the hell anyone would want to do it, to have to be a sky server, I personally just want to be a pilot not a sky janitor.
Clearly you don't belong in the private jet business, fractional or not. There are plenty of pilot jobs where you won't have to clean the plane. Go find one. There are plenty of pilots willing to do the wide variety of things the job requires. Maybe because of the equipment, maybe because of the "owner" passengers and/or their lifestyle, maybe because of the variety of destinations and flying, or 100 other reasons. For sure, if the pluses don't outweigh the minuses, find a different job more to your liking.
Then the solution is to avoid corporate jets.
People want to know their pilots. There are a lot very experienced 91 pilots. Asking those pilots to leave their 2-3 plane max operations, flying the same people, from the airport down the street is a lot more attractive than airline like schedule the Netjets guys do. If these guys aren't happy, why aren't they doing real part 91 work?
These young guys and gals need to bail to the majors.
There is no connection between pay and qualifications. It’s a supply and demand issue. If your airline is running just fine (and even growing), then your pay scale is appropriate, you are not worth a 60% pay raise.
Am I the only one that's hearing, "Pilots are in crazy high demand" and then "NetJets needs to do better"... well it seems like you've already solved your own problems, not sure why you're striking when you can bounce to a nicer job.
Seniority doesn’t transfer, you’d be starting at the bottom level of a major airline effectively cutting your pay in half if not more, and putting yourself at risk of furlough should the economy go south. It would take probably 3-5 years to get back the pay, and security you gave up.
My 777 retired friend said it best, "After all the talk, only we have control of the throttles"
So if NetJets has so many problems and the legacy carriers are paying so much more, why not just go to them and put NetJets out of business due to lack of pilot? This makes no sense. If there are enough pilots where this is a problem, just start their own competing service to NetJets. Nobody is holding a gun to the heads of these people and forcing them to take these jobs. One guy asks for a 60% raise across the board. He’s Looney. AA is discontinuing first class service because the space of a first class seat is not worth the square footage it takes up. Business class and premium economy are the bread and butter of legacy carriers. What are these guys smoking, the cost of fuel has spiked so much so that airlines are now charging passengers $200-$600 or more in a fuel surcharge on their tickets. Prices are sky high. And with the continued issues around the world, the conflict in Ukraine, Saudi Arabia at max pumping and refining capacity, and the Obama-Biden administration restricting pumping capacity domestically, the fuel prices are only going to go up further. If you don’t like it, just go somewhere else. Chinese airlines are paying $350,000/year for qualified pilots. Emirates is paying big money, so is Qatar, so is Japan Airlines, so is Singapore airlines.
I wonder what Warren Buffet has to say about this.
He wouldn’t comment there is nothing to gain he knows better.
The rule seems to be when you work for a paycheck, you are not in charge of how big those checks are. It's a tougher road initially and even during, but find a way to make money outside of being a pro pilot. Should you succeed at that, couldn't you purchase an aircraft that fits your lifestyle and fly that on your own time, when you are refreshed, relaxed and really ready to fly?
It's kinda of ironic that the wealthy, who can afford net jets aircraft services, are being flown by the most disgruntled pilots, apparently. That will ultimately lead to a safety and focus issue in the cockpit. Focus, concentration, awareness, checklist style decision making, good judgement and ability to execute. These need to be all present in the cock pit 100% of the time. These pilot's have to carry luggage and clean the cabin? Shouldn't pilots be planning alternative landing routes, what if scenarios for engine failure on takeoff, etc. ? That's kind of a joke really, a sad joke because the pilot should be 100% focused on preflight before the flight, and flight during the flight.
For everyone's sake, if you don't want to be in that cockpit because of low pay, find something else to do, and fly yourselves or your family as a pastime or lifestyle choice.
I spoke with Netjets recruiters at NGPA and just laughed at them. I asked why in the world would anyone go there, and what kind of applicants do they get. He answered they get lots of older family oriented guys who wanted the 7/7 schedule...
I would prefer the 7/7 schedule than the slapped together schedule most legacy carrier pilots get stuck with
Unionize !!!
Unions aren’t rare in the airline industry I just don’t see private jet operations unionizing. I have the impression their customers might be more price sensitive and will just return to flying commercial.
Do you realize you are saying that on a video created by the pilots union……
Safe to say i'll never be flying netjets🤣, but that being said I worked at places like this, and after 21 yrs I left best frigging day of my life, life is to short to live with being treated like this
It’s the same everywhere .. as a retired AA international captain hired in 1986 I upgraded to captain 1997
I was a military trained pilot and 90% of my class was military
My peers still working tell me
“At AA new hires are upgrading to 737 Captain in 3 years . Many they wouldn’t put their family on the jet
flown by these former FO
The generic AA wide body Captain is pulling down $400K per year now
More like $700k/yr now...all in
It's how I explain it to my non-aviation, friends and family. There are qualified, and experienced pilots. Airlines want the cheapest qualified pilots they can get away with. Then they will look at hiring experience in their hiring practices.
I understand when it comes to safety, and I agree with that, but cry me a river, you ladies need to go to 121 step aside.
Listen, I understand the need for a pay increase and support pay increases but NJASP literally rejected a 52% pay increase! Sorry but no sympathy when you reject such a massive pay increase especially when your contract which you agreed to runs out by 2029. I just see a bunch of angry children that they arent getting paid massive wages for running a charter operation.
Why would you take this job? Why keep it? Quit! Don't take a crappy job....
Yes, seems silly. They should all quit and become an airline pilot, no shortage of jobs.
Why would you work for this company?
Time for all the aviation companies to pay pilots for the actual risk they take on every flight
Maybe management is the issue
The cartel pays more ! What these greedy owners are worse than killers . They dont care about someones life .
Trouble makers.
I mean, hell. I guess we just must have ourselves an a#÷×ole shortage, huh? (Point Break 1990's)
Aviation is a business. The people who run the company know lower experience will shorten the time between now and the next fatal accident. They've run the numbers and know if that happens they'll still make lots of money. That is their bottom line. Planes will crash. The CEO and PR guys will handle the blowback, and if they do that well they'll be given raises.
lol the comments 😂
sooooo how much is NJ paying? Our pilots are making 250kish and I can't believe the amount of complaining they do.
Quit the whining and go somewhere else. Don’t know any pilot who has been at the same company for 20 years. Move along.
21 years at NJA. Does that count? But then, you don't know me.
Executive team and shareholders getting the majority of profits and everyone else is mearly an expense/employee. Only way out of the rat race is to start your own company and become executive...which is challenging.
If I don't like a movie I get up and leave.
Seems like a puff cake job compared to healthcare.
This is what it is; babies, try doing 270 days away per year with 24hr flight duty periods and 36hr crew duty days for 10 or 15 years. Do that in a 60 year old POS you have to always fly with deferred maintenance issues. NetJets has it right, buy stock in the company and you will see your pay increase. Or get out of the way for a younger hungry pilot to gain experience and you go drive a part 121 bus.
I would not clean bathrooms. Nope, not happening.
Of course, the fucking faa with their 1500 hours minimum rule is fucking things up and then if you're lucky and find a "low-hour" job, you're still needing over 800 hours in multi-engine/turboprop/jet.
if you're not willing to get an R-ATP you're not serious about the profession. cry about it.
wahwahwah fuck your union
@@calansmith9561
Right, that's why a friend got hired by a regional the month month after he turned 21 with just over 1500 hours. Mostly built his time working as a CFI. Try again......
yeah because 1500 hours in a fucking cessna with
Congress changed the minimum requirement to 1500 hours, not the FAA.
Give netjet pilots a raise,you got enough cash Warren Buffett. Quit being so stingy.
Better use unjabbed
I'm bummed for these pilots. They signed up for a gig that pays over 100k, thinking they'd just be zooming in jets for a 9-5 shift. But nope, they also gotta clean planes and put bags on the plane. And on top of that, they're hardly ever home because they're always on the go. I mean, shouldn't someone have given them the heads up about all this travel before they committed to flight school? Sure, it seems obvious but maybe it needed to be said more times. They say working for airlines pays well and has a good quality of life. It's in the news that commercial airlines are in desperate need of pilots. But yet these Netjet pilots are still working for a company when it seems like an easy transition. I think maybe the pilots that stuck around are in a good place but just want money. Making 100k+ and not being able to afford to live just means these families are living above their mean. Imagine firefighters, military soldiers getting paid half what pilots make and they work so much harder. Stop complaining. If you don't like the company you work for then move on. especially if there is a high demand for what you do elsewhere.
They keep talking about experience. How the hell are you going to get experience being a CFI for am extended period of time. This shit coast a stupid amount of money to get this CPL. Amd you want us to Pay that money and then make shit money for years and then go to net jets and still make shit money, when we have the option to go to a airline and make big money.
This makes no sense. Netjets sells a premium service to extremely wealthy people and they can't pay their pilots decently? Extreme greed at its worst.
There is no pilot shortage, there is a shortage of jobs that pay well enough and get enough respect for people entering the workforce to choose to pay for pilot training. Don't pay well and treat your pilots like sh*t and you won't have any pilots.
I’ll do your job for half the pay, see ya 👋
exactly. that what the free market is all about. But when it doesn't benefit them they cry lol I hope you get their job.
I'm sure you are qualified...😂
Be interesting when the airlines go full diversity hiring.
There's no getting around qualifications. You're either qualified or you're not.
Is that what fox news told you lol go cry
Just leave and move on. You have skills, sell them
FBI open up