🖖 Star Trek's Lost Enterprise: Legal Ownership Revealed
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- Опубліковано 14 лип 2024
- 🚀 Embark on a fascinating journey through the legal intricacies surrounding the ownership of the recently discovered Star Trek Enterprise model. This video delves into the complex world of California law, storage unit auctions, and the concept of legal ownership.
🎬 Discover the rollercoaster story of how this iconic piece of Star Trek history resurfaced in a storage unit auction and the ensuing legal battle. We'll explore:
• The California Self Storage Act and its implications
• The concept of "purchaser in good faith" and "bonafide purchaser"
• Gene Roddenberry's letter and the ancient document doctrine
• The difference between civil and criminal law in this context
👨⚖️ Whether you're a die-hard Trekkie or a legal enthusiast, this video offers a unique perspective on the intersection of pop culture and law. Learn how seemingly simple concepts like lending an item can have far-reaching legal consequences.
🖖 Live long and prosper, and don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more exclusive Star Trek content!
00:00** - Introduction to the Enterprise model discovery
03:35** - Explanation of California Self Storage Act
06:08** - Gene Roddenberry's letter and its implications
10:25** - Legal definitions of ownership
15:40** - Conclusion and future implications
#StarTrek #EnterpriseModel #LegalOwnership #CaliforniaLaw #StorageUnitAuction #GeneRoddenberry #StarTrekHistory #PopCultureLaw #TrekkieLegal #StarTrekMemorabilia #LegalPrecedent #StarTrekAuction #BonafidePurchaser #StarTrekLegacy #TVPropHistory - Розваги
You managed to have the complicated timeline of events _and_ all that legal information, while presenting it in a way that I could understand it! No sensationalising, no hype or accusations, just facts, but in a way that keeps it interesting.
Thank you so much for your kind words.
You've become the go to guy regarding this .
I never cease to be amazed at how people now reach out to me instead of others when they have information or need confirmation. Sometimes I feel like Alice in Wonderland. LOL
I resemble the “old man” statement. It is this kind of “who-dun-it” that is intriguing to fans. Thanks for taking the time because although we all are fans, could not do what you have done.
Thanks for the kind words. I figure there are very few things that someone can be a part of in his life that are so far removed from his life that it feels like Alice in Wonderland.
Through a unique set of circumstances, I have been able to communicate with a wide variety of people who never would come in contact with each other otherwise. And that has allowed me to become involved with some things like I have with this.
I never expected to be able to freely communicate with all the parties involved in a situation like this. And I think that as long as I can stay focused and impartial, then we have some amazing discoveries just around the corner that will lay the entire story out from who Gene "loaned" the model to... Through where has it been all these years. I can account right now for the last 39 years or so of it's life. I just have to nail down the last few remaining people and years. Obviously, I will let you guys know as soon as I make discoveries along the way.
Excellent explanation of the situation. One wrinkle that I don't think you alluded to however is the fact that if Gene had a verbal agreement when he loaned the model that it would be returned, that would be something that was considered a contract. The borrower would be under legal obligation to return it according to that contract, or they would be in violation of that contract.
Keep in mind that the whole situation exists today because the person Gene loaned it to was obviously not wanting to return it. So in that case, it would extremely unlikely that that person would admit to having a verbal contract with Gene. And without any further evidence, it would be Gene’s word versus the borrower. At this point, the California Self Storage Act completely releases that buyer of any and all responsibility that the previous owner may have had. The only thing right now that could change the ownership status at this point would be someone actually presenting a bill of sale or a police report documenting the loss of the model.
Jim, this story will pour blessings on your channel. Even more than you've already experienced.
Wow, thank you! It’s kind of crazy that we are this close to actually solving one of the great unsolved mysteries in Star TRek.
7:25 The people speculating that you had inside knowledge are silly. There’s a great example from about a year ago of The Knight Rider Historians posting a hail-Mary request video asking for help finding the screen-used F.L.A.G. semi-trailer. A few hours after the video went live, they got an e-mail from a guy who decided he didn’t want to watch a Lifetime channel movie with his wife, and so started watching UA-cam. Their video randomly came up in his feed, and he realized he had it out in his yard.
Random stuff happens.
Hi Pete! One of the things that I’ve come o understand since becoming a content creator is that the whole “6 degrees of separation” scenario is absolutely true. And because of that, I see the kind of coincidences that you are talking about almost every day. It almost seems like magic.
Those two posts were mine. Never said Trek world had inside knowledge. I said the guys who HAD the model may have watched his videos and promptly put it up for fear they had stolen property. It was only a theory and we now know the two guys were almost completely ignorant of what they had. Never said Trek-World knew someone had the model.
Anyhow we now all know it was now just pure coincidence .
Hi there! Good to see you!
You did the first post that I showed; but the second post was Dar70. I made sure to display them each on the screen so that folks could read them for themselves.
But both of the posts came right out and said that my video had somehow incentivised the sellars to put the model up after seeing my video.
But if they had, they most certainly would have done things differently. At the end of the day, it really was a coincidence that the model showed up after I did the video.
And I only did the video because no one else had done a video that centered only on the disappearance of the model up to that point.
@@TREK-WORLD Haha. Yeah. That's me at Trek today also. 😂 That's why both posts were similar. A lot of us were going between both sites that week. (It was an exciting week for us Trek Fans. 😀) But I was in no way suggesting you had inside knowledge as Pete Suggested. At the time I was not convinced this guy had not known what he had till he saw your video. But as I now know it really was just a coincidence as we all know now and he was kinda ignorant of what he had. Although he put a starting price of $1000 for a beat looking up old model. So I guess he wasn't that ignorant.. 😉
@@TREK-WORLDThis should blow your mind. Back around 2009, I was playing The 6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon with friends online. I kept winning and finally they asked how I couldn’t seem to lose. Then I told them in my web-searches I stumbled on a college that had a supercomputer that had all 3 million or so celebrities and all movies. You just asked it the shortest path and tada.They were of course aghast and said that I cheated. I told them that we were all using computers and web searches but that my searching found a better computer. Well, we stopped playing. 🤣 The point of this was that I found a note on the university website that said that the computer revealed that Kevin Bacon wasn’t the “center of Hollywood” after all (!). It was Harvey Keitel. 😱 This just goes to show that things are not always what they seem. 😁
Great video, Jim, for making this very clear. You really do great work!
Thank you kindly!
Jim, thank you for your deep dive into this issue, and for keeping everyone informed.
You layed it out as best as it possibly can be, Everything you sighted is correct from my understanding. Hopefully those that are still confused by the facts will be helped by your presentation. Thank you very much for keeping the rest of us informed. 🖖💚💛💙❤
Ahh...the development of it being revealed Roddenberry received it as a gift and then wrote the letter complaining about it missing kind of absolve him. My theory had been that he had been loaned it and hocked it. Gene was probably too embarrassed to really pursue a police report, etc.
The explanation about the self-storage act really put things in perspective.
As I dig more and more into this; the stuff I am finding is very unexpected. I can definitely tell you that as of 1979, Gene's letter had been written. But I'm finding something that supposedly happed in the early 1980s that is completely crazy. I have some details to track down, but the story is definitely a suspenseful page-turner.
@@TREK-WORLD You are the MVP of Star Trek right now. Thanks for the sleuthing.
Ok, this makes a lot more sense. Gene was always going on about an adversarial with the studio. That's where I assumed he was trying to get on over on the studio.
It seems the guys that bought the storage unit, were entitled to a payday. But giving the model away to another party really throws a wrench in all this.
Yeah, the situation is muddy. But the scenarios is common with Star Trek Props... Someone finds one, takes it to the auction house and then sells it. The real issue here is that Heritage contacted Rod *after* they signed paperwork committing to the July auction. And then they negotiated a finders fee for much less than the value of the model. Then they asked the sellers to give them the ownership of the model in exchange for $500K out of the $600K finders fee. Then Heritage would transfer ownership to Rod. This scenario is wrong in 100 different ways as Heritage shouldn't have contacted anyone to arrange for a transfer of ownership prior to the auction. They've never done that before with any of the Trek items up for auction.
@@TREK-WORLD It makes Heritage look pretty bad. Taking advantage of those guys, it also looked like they believed the stolen story. Somebody wasn't thinking things through. But how common is that.
Watch the model not break $100k(that's a joke, but not without some basis in fact. The Refit did get less than the D).
At least most of these props have a paper trail. I would be curious where the Little E has been. I would like to think is was on someone's shelf. But a lot of guys in the industry would just stash it in a closet.
I think you are closer to the truth than you knew. I've managed to trace the model back to when it was put in the storage unit. But I still have to figure out whose hands it went through before it was locked away. Stay tuned!
@@TREK-WORLD How long ago was it put in storage?
It's only in very recent times did any of these props have any real value. An old friend of mine had all sorts of screen used props in his possession(he worked in the industry). He would give them away, or trade them for something else. He had no idea that what he had would ever have any real value. He had them for the cool factor or I worked on that.
It's been in that unit for longer than I expected. There's a whole backstory and side story I am documenting. It's almost like Curse of Oak Island - the treasure is nice, but the real goal is the whole story of who, when, and why.
Great. So, what about the original renters of the unit? How and why did the model get placed in there?
Either the next video, or the one after that will go over that. I have verified the previous owner, and the circumstances that resulted in the auction sale. But there are more pieces that have to fall into place for me to lay out the scenario.
I know right? I have been waiting for this simple piece of info for the longest time: who owned the storage unit .. this is much more of a priority to talk about ..
I'm working on that piece now. But, as you can imagine, there's all sorts of reasons for people to not want to talk while this is stirring. So I'm collecting what I can, but will respect the timelines of the individuals concerning any statements I can make. I can tell you I'm really close - but there are still things for me to confirm. And I will post as I go along to keep people up to date as I can.
I have a hard time believing that Jon Povill, who was one of the sharpest people associated with Trek back in those days, would have simply forgotten to whom he delivered such a valuable item. Something about this doesn’t add up.
You're right. The whole story that Gene put in the letter has always struck me as odd. I too do not think that Jon would have simply said he didn't remember who he gave it to or when.
Ahhhhh, the late 60s, early 70s, very, very different times, there's a lot of folks who can't remember a lot of things, including what they did and when they did it.
One other thing to consider, props like this model were not considered all that important. The film was in the can, that's what had value back in those days. Today it's a very different case. The studios eventually learned props have value, when guys were dumpster diving around the studios(I know a guy that did this back in the day).
@@earth2006 Roddenberry being among them. He was a heavy drinker and did quite a few drugs himself...
It's not just age that destroys the memory. A lot of people still don't want to admit to themselves that their recreational drug use is fuzzying up their memory. In the quest to forget their pain or relax with self-medicating, they're killing off brain cells at a faster than normal rate.
@@earth2006 Like...Dennis Hopper, perhaps?
Great work, Jim! There are SO many pieces to the puzzle - thanks for finding and assembling them for all of us.
My pleasure!
You got it right.
If Rod had made a copy of the model, aged it and released a press release stating that he, Rod, had the model, he could have avoided all this nonsense.
Looks like It's going to cost him .
Fantastic and looking forward to learning what happened next. I'd always thought Gene kept the model like he did clips for Lincoln Enterprises but that it was really Paramount's property. AND the didnt care since the show was cancelled. So I appreciated learning about the Ancient Documents thing. Thanks for the hard work.
Well done on your update, Jim. You might remember that I was the one who emailed you regarding the eBay auction first, as you didn’t know about it. I’m not heartbroken (much) that you didn’t mention me as the first to inform you. I did it because of your “Missing/Stolen” video. When you made your update video, you only mentioned that many people had notified you. Anyway, I’ll be looking for more about this enigma.
Hi there! I’m sorry about that. I believe you 100% percent that you were the first. Much of that night is still a blur for me as it all happened However! I will make a final full length documentary style chronicalling all the events as they happened. What’s your full name? You’ve mentioned this to me before, but I have a terrible time associating UA-cam handles with names as time goes along. Jim
@@TREK-WORLD Darell Phillips. I think I also sent you the photos of the model, as I wasn’t certain that the listing would still be up. Also, it was a long time friend and Trekkie (Greg Saum) that alerted me to the listing. I had remembered your video and thus found your email. I wanted you to know ASAP of course as this was very important news. As a bit of side trivia, the daughter of Richard C. Datin lives in my community. I purchased her book about her growing up and her father building the model and the K-7 space station and also the shuttle craft hanger bay filming model. As you know, he was given the job to build the 11’ model but because he was working on models for Petticoat Junction he delegated it. He still supervised and did work on it and delivered it. A year later, he added the lighting and did other modifications. It’s a great book. It’s called The Enterprise NCC 1701 and The Model Maker by N Datin McDonald and Richard C. Datin Jr.
As it happens, I have my own personal connection to Star Trek. Back in 1986-87, I was the master model maker for part of the tabletop figures line for Star Fleet Battles. Back then, the game was published by Task Force Games. My first two figures were the Federation Starbase (Really Star Feet Headquarters) and the Klingon D-5. The game is now sold by the designer Stephen V. Cole.
I'd be interested in knowing if Gene Roddenberry actually tried trademarking or copyrighting any of the physical ship models. He was incredibly business savvy when it came to this kind of stuff. And we know he wrote lyrics for the main star trek theme to get performance royalties, so I wouldn't rule him out pulling something like that.
I mention this as your answer as to who owns the model might actually reside at the patent & trademark office. Incredibly small, but not impossible. And who knows? You might even uncover something completely unrelated that Gene registered that's worth sharing with the fandom?
The only other thing that could legally tie up the 3ft model would be if it was a part of a trust fund.
The issue with that approach is that Gene shared ownership with Paramount jointly. So he still wouldn’t have been able to lay claim to any ownership rights on his own. When Trek was cancelled, Paramount offered to sell him their part of the ownership - but did not take them up on his offer. I believe they want somewhere between $100K-$150K at the time. So it was a lot of money.
@@TREK-WORLD Did Gene's attitude toward the models suddenly change at a particular point in your research? Or has he always felt a sense of guardianship towards them despite their legal status?
The 33" model was the only one that he ever really laid claim on. He was also given the 18" Refit model that they used in TMP. I'm not sure where that is right now.
From what i understand, the reason Paramount gave the big 11' model to the Smithsonian was to explicitly keep it out of Gene's hands, as he'd been pretty vocal at the time about wanting that one for himself as well.
@@TREK-WORLD I was just curious because a change in Gene's attitude towards the model would have implied that some legal stuff did take place that we just don't have any record of. But it sounds like that despite Gene acting like he was the owner of the model he never exclusively was. I guess the only hope we have, short of someone who worked on TMP who saw something or admitted to something, would be if an audit occurs. But I don't think there could ever be grounds for such a thing, and even if there were the general public still wouldn't know anything.
This is going to make a fantastic movie!
It is amazing that you are documenting in nearly real-time today the culmination of events beginning nearly 50 years ago regarding a model which had an intended lifespan of somewhere around five years or less. It is almost like a TV episode in which scenes flip back and forth between the past and the present with actions in each affecting the other as the story plays out. It has been a pleasure to watch the channel grow from Trek history documentation to Trek history participant. You are literally as much a part of the action as Woodward and Bernstein were of Watergate. I look forward to the near future as you continue to report on this story.
Curiouser and curiouser...
I wonder if the letter that Gene wrote was like a gentle reminder to whoever had the model to return it. Maybe he didn't want to outright say that someone had stolen it but just wanted them to return it. Just a random thought.
Hmmm a bit dramatic… made a bit more complicated… happy it’s been found though
Hi Chris, nice to meet you! Yeah... my style is very "animated", so the dramatic interpretations and presentations are all part of the package. And I hate to disagree on making it a bit more complicated.... I've made it a bit more detailed... Which is necessary in today's world when trying to establish an acceptance of a new opinion. But I realize that it makes a five word premise into a 30 word thesis. However, I can tell you that I've mapped the entire story from who it was that had it in the 70s and how it made it's way into a storage unit to be discovered over 40 years later is very close to being demonstrably illustrated. I'm still trying to get verbal confirmation from several key players; but I expect to be able to lay the whole thing out within the next month or so along with the supporting information and the people who contributed. Then it will be up to the viewers to decide. But the names and people will be a bit of a surprise to people. - Jim
That night I was with a friend watching The Monster Squad and I got a text message that said “Is this what I think it is?” I didn’t even even know what “it” was but I turned my phone off because I was trying not to be rude. By the time I turn my phone back on I was flooded with messages from all sorts of people including people who work with Rod! 😂
Only thing I am not clear on is if the Storage Unit was actually IN California. I had some idea it was in the Valley, but I checked online and all i found was "it was discovered in a storage unit." If it was outside the state than obviously different laws applied.
Hi Chris! Yes, the unit was located in Los angles. The company and their location is recorded in the complaint filed as part of the lawsuit.
Ironically, you will not find much real facts online about the situation. The two parties to the lawsuit are not making public comments just yet. And no one else besides me has dug in this deep yet. I did a livestream in May that went over the entire 46 page complaint in detail - and many of the things being said on the internet sites did not check out when compared to the complaint. Which just means that everyone seems to be trying to determine what has occurred, but they have no actual interface with anyone actually involved in the lawsuit.
I suggest, that as a compromise, all parties agree that I own it and deliver it to my house posthaste.
So somewhere out there, someone may have made a mold of the 3 foot model. Maybe?
Actually, you have touched something that most people are not aware of. But there is a chance that a second model could exist. But it would not have all the modifications that Richard Datin made to this one as the seasons progressed. I'm going to do a quick video in the next day or so discussing what we do - and do not - know concerning any remaining Enterprise models.
Thanks for wading through this, so we don't have to! 👍
Any time!
If the model has been returned to the Roddenberry family, as has been reported, then isn't all of this moot since they now have possession of it and it was voluntarily given to Rod? The same laws would now make them the owner, regardless of those circumstances.
Unfortunately, that's not exactly how it stands at the moment. The Sellers gave the model to Heritage on consignment with a signed contract to auction the unit. Heritage indicated that they gave the model to Rod, but if they did so, it still would not belong to Rod as Heritage never had legal custody of the model.
Let them fight😆 ,...i just hope it gets restored soon🙂
The plan right now is to only do a conservation restoration. Meaning that they do not intent to make it look like it did in the 60s. They imply want to correct any structural damage so that it will not get any worse than it currently is. This is also what Paul Allen did with the AMT screen used Enterprise when he bought it from Matt’s auction.
So if I happened by incredible timing to see it on eBay, and bid $1,000 and eventually won, I would have been it's rightful owner ... wow.
Yes. If you had seen it, and bid, you would have had title claim on the object. But it was an auction and not a buy it now; so they probably would have cancelled the auction anyway if it had bids on it.
Which is why us three should have bid on it and kept our mouths closed. One of us would have gotten it cheap...and we could donate it if we wanted to.
We need to keep that plan in mind when the next item shows up! LOL
How do we know for sure they found it in the storage unit? Is there any proof of that, other than the guy who won it saying he found it in a plastic bag?
Hi Ross. Yes, I've actually been in contact with the family that lost the unit for non-payment. They also confirmed the story. I'm working on verifying everything that everyone is saying... But I will be able to lay it out in detail in the next few videos on the subject. Each will go into a specific step on the journey and explain all the evidence and people who were involved. It's going to be a wild ride!
If the so-called legal owners had any morality, they would gift the model back to the family for the original purchase price of the storage unit; if not, and if the studio had any integrity, they would purchase the model from the legal owner, regardless of price, and return the model to the GR family; despite no paperwork of the loan, the studio undoubtedly knew it was being used as a reference for the ST movie.
It's not quite that simple. Paramount has never attempted to lay claim on any of the items that have been auctioned off over the years. For them to even think about attempting to do so in this case, they would have to come up with a legal reason why the particular item is the only item in what is literally a total of well over $10M in auction sales over the past 50 years.
@@TREK-WORLD You're doing great work, Jim! The complexities are so frustrating; seems something just isn't right.
Thanks! I suspect that the family that owned the unit wasn't the same family that the model had been loaned to. But I can't be certain until more research. Nothing ever ends up being as simple as it seems when searching for Trek history. lol.
@@TREK-WORLD We'll all be standing by for updates; hopefully, the mystery unfolds in a favorable manner. BTW ... Thank you for your efforts!
❤
"Codified" is pronounced like the fish.
Thank you! It saves me from future embarrassment. I had mistakenly assumed it was related to the word "Codex". Oops!
So, if I borrow money from the bank with a loan, I don’t have to pay it back?
Unfortunately, it’s not quite that easy. LOL. If you borrow money from a bank; they make you sign a legally binding contract not only for the amount; but for the interest. However, if the bank were literally take money out of their cash drawer, then give it to you without requiring any paperwork… Well, then you would own the money. Since they would be giving it to you voluntarily with no strings attached.
So if the guys who found it in the storage space have now given it to Rod, then they no longer own it the same way the gut who lent the weedwhacker no longer owns that?
So they have no claim?
If they had done that, then yes. But what they actually did was give it to Heritage on consignment for auction. So that means that the paperwork they signed when given the unit to Heritage clearly indicates that they retain the ownership until after the auction - when it would be given to the winner in exchange for payment.
16:10 Thats called conversion if you sell something you borrowed....that is against the law...you don't lose ownership by lending something FFS
I don't make up the laws my friend. I simply report on them. For what it is worth; I consulted with an LA lawyer who handles these Auction lawsuits all the time. An example of this was Nist Vs. Hall.
Wrong! The buyer is immunized from CRIMINAL liability, but the item does not belong to the buyer. Not in California, not anywhere in the United States. Stick with running a fan site and leave interpretation of law to professionals.
and...the question is... are you a lawyer? Jim says in the video that he encourages people to check his logic, as he wants detailed clarification if he's wrong.. Jim has cited laws in his argument. Simply saying "Wrong" without proof.. puts you in the same position you are claiming.
Actually, I did leave it to professionals. How else did you think I get the detailed citations and doctrines? From an LA based law firm who specializes in these kind of lawsuits. And it’s research like *that* that no one else in fandom is doing. However, if you feel that your professional legal knowledge contradicts that, I would love assistance in vetting why these codes wouldn’t be defensible. We need people who want to roll their sleeves up and assist with the work . Not people shout “idiot” over their shoulder as they walk away.