Is the Harley Evo really that good, Is the Twin Cam Really That Bad
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- Опубліковано 14 січ 2021
- Harley-Davidson Evo engines have had a long standing reputation for being one of the most reliable Harley motors out there. The Evo does have some issues of its own which are seldom talked about. Then there's the Twin Cam which always seems to never have anything good said about it. The Twin Cam engine does have some advantages over the Evo and maybe it's not all that bad.
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What's your opinion on the Twin Cam, do you feel like it's a good engine or a failure on Harley's part?
I've got 60,000 on my twin cam ...
Most reliable bike I've owned
Timken roller-bearings. Need them!
My 103 has been strong, I think alot of the failures and disaster stories have some truth. But the more a story is told the worse it gets and crazier it becomes. If you take care of your twin cam it will take the miles down.
But each have their own weak links. My 2000 needed the cam plate upgrade
I got 40,000 miles on my 2003 Ultra classic! I've had zero problems with it. I'm about to crack it open and put new cam chain tensioners & TW6 Woods cams in her off Gixxer foo's recommendations!!!
Every HD motor has it's own flavor of issues. Just deal with it as needed and RIDE IT🤘
At the end of the day that's true with just about everything out there!
On god
Absolutely true. I had a 1991 1200 Sportster EVO and had the rear lifter.go out.on it. Man what a F en noise 🤔Thing is it had Jack Shit milage on it . I don't think the Mo Co ever had a motor design that didn't have some.B/S going on with it.
While i agree with you, i disagree. Even just simple maintenance like changing your fluids will always save you thousands of headaches.
Amen 🙏🤘
I'll keep my Evo, all my friends wish they never got rid of them ✌️
The most desired Evo is the 1997 & 1998 once the Motor Company improved the castings of the cases. A cam bearing swap from the INA bearing is a simple job that can easily be done in a few hours. Ive put well over 300,000 miles on these motors and wouldn't want anything else even if it was in an even exchange for mine. I like throttle cables & a carburetor. Simple reliable design
100% my brothers Twinkie got him around , but he babied it like a old women with two broken hips . road it 40,000 miles . never jumped on and road it like he just stole it not 1 time .
Couldn’t believe my luck when I got a hold of a 1998 night train. Will forever be chuffed on that bike.
97 Dyna wide glide here
@davidfaria6194 perfect bike right there!
Awesome video!
The reason that H-D went with the caged INA cam bearing was to reduce the lateral thrusting of the cam. The clearance necessary between the rollers in an uncaged needle bearing results in needle rollers that are not kept parallel to the shaft, resulting in a “scrubbing” action, causing the shaft to thrust.
The consequence of the camshaft thrusting wasn’t apparent until around ‘88 through ‘90 when it was commonplace to see the timer cup, fastened to the end of the camshaft, cutting its way through the timer plate.
The timing of these failures was undoubtedly the result of misalignment between the cam bearing in the crankcase and the cam bushing in the gear cover, as well as the texture on the surface of the cam gear.
In extreme cases where the timer plate was seen to have cut deeply into by the rotor, upon disassembly you would discover that the thrust shoulder of the cam bushing was worn off completely.
When you compare stock EVO cams that have been run with an INA caged bearing to those running in an uncaged Torrington bearing, there is a stark difference in the amount of visible polishing and wear that you see on the bearing end of the cam as well as the thrust surface of the cam gear.
When the load on the cam is increased through cam profile and lift, along with heavier valve springs, chit can go south in a big hurry with an INA bearing. The additional rollers in an uncaged bearing will simply accommodate a greater load; at this point thrusting is a secondary issue.
Adding additional rollers in a caged bearing can be done by increasing the diameter of the bearing, as was done with the Twin-cam, but there wasn’t room for that in the EVO.
It turns out that if you significantly increase valve train loads in the Twin-cam, the larger diameter caged needle bearings of the Twin-cam will also soil the nest, so the SE uncaged Twin-cam bearing was introduced.
Caged needle bearings are commonly used in high load applications, like those used with the late H-D transmission; although they are better sized to accommodate the expected loads. In the early days that was not the case. If the load capacity and thrusting can both be managed effectively, that’s a win win.
I've just turned 135k on my twin cam, stage two. Full synthetic and regular maintenance. Loved my Evo too, still got my shovel!
Love to hear that! I just did some upgrades to my '99 ultra with 57k miles and hope to that I can get that many more miles on it before it worn out.
Matthew Greene What year twin cam?
Damn how long have you been riding that bike to put 132K on it?! I got a soft spot for a good old Shovel Head, they are fun to ride but they aren't for someone who doesn't turn their own wrenches.
@@GixxerFoo One day I will own a 1976 Shovel, which is the year I was born.
@@GixxerFoo depends on the shovel. I have a 71 FLH that CONSTANTLY needs work. Then an 82 FXR [first year] I am still in process of attempting factory correct restore of the FXR. I also have an 83 FLHT . Its NOT AMF. Its a Harley and so far it just starts and runs. However the shovelhead motto is ride wrench repeat. LOL.
98 FXDL. I love my Evo. Was wimpy as hell when it was bone stock. Bumped it up to Stage 2 and she woke the hell up. Very reliable too, never had any mechanical issues at all.
That's awesome, just a jet kit, air cleaner and a set of pipes really wakes them up quite a bit! Add a nice little bolt in cam and it will really rip (for an Evo).
What type of cam?
Don't forget the Evo was designed during the 55 MPH speed limit.
That's a really good point! Lol I didn't even think about that honestly.
It's not the engine so much as the drivetrain, the 4 speed transmission got a reprieve in the early 70's when the National Speed Limit law was enacted, had it not been for that Harley would have had to develop a 5 speed transmission before '79, that law gave the 4 speed an extra 10 years of life.
The 5 speed is good for 65 MPH roads, but with the increased speed limits that have come about in the past 15 or 20 years even it falls a little short nowadays which is one of the reasons Harley went to the 6 speed.
I put a DD6 in my 05 Ultra and increased the front pulley 2 teeth with a Baker steel pulley, now it only turns over 2,600 RPM's at 75 MPH and I'm getting 47 MPG at that speed loaded up and with a passenger.
@@dukecraig2402 Mine has the 5 speed. 65 MPH 2600 to 2800RPM. I wish I had one more gear, lol
@@dukecraig2402 I've seen that done. I have a Softail that mainly stays on black top and gravel. I ride it all summer to work on the back roads. It's about 13 miles to town. I like the lower gearing and wouldn't mind if it was lower. I rarely break 50. It's one of the reasons I've never traded this bike in. Softails aren't great handlers but they make surprisingly nimble dirt bikes. LOL.
@@slowpokebr549
The Baker DD6 conversion for 5 speeds works out that the first 5 gears come out the same as the stock 5 speed and the 6th gear is like having an overdrive but without the frictional power losses of an overdriven transmission.
The way it works is the kit comes with a larger compensating sprocket and the longer chain needed for it to work in the primary drive and the 1st gear in the assembly is much deeper than the 1st gear in a stock 5 speed, then 1st through 5th gear works out the same as a 5 speed but you've got that 6th gear everyone wants at today's highway speeds, if you put one in without changing the primary drive you'd have a 1st gear that was so deep you'd be able to pull stumps out with it and it'd probably red line the engine at 20 MPH in 1st gear, I've never ask them but Baker might sell you one without the larger compensating sprocket and chain that goes with it.
I stand by a running harley with an Evo, listen, and I smile. I stand by a running harley with a twin-cam, listen, and I don't.
That's awesome! You know that's kinda like that saying if don't look back at your bike walking away you bought the wrong one.
"Is the Harley Evo really that good, Is the Twin Cam Really That Bad" YES
The Twin Cam accomplished it's job of more power, but in my opinion at the cost of reliability.
Great infotainment. Have an 86 EVO with over 120,000 miles on her!
That's impressive! Is that on the stock motor? Hell even if it's been rebuild a bike like that obviously deserved a refresh!
@@GixxerFoo I've rebuilt it with 10 over pistons EV38 cam and some new valves.
@@denniscassillo2032 and that was all? Good job.
EVO was by far the most reliable engine Harley ever made. If they went with a 6 speed transmission I would ride one today even. The Twin Cam models after 2007 with the hydraulic cam chain tensioner and 6 speed are really good too.
I put a 6 speed in my FXR and never looked back.
The Flatheads were Harley's most reliable engines, in truth.
Sadly rather slow in stock form though, but could be woken up fairly simply.
6 speed in dynas and softails have the same final drive ratio … 1:1. All Harley’s have the same final except for touring bikes with cruise drive (over drive) swap pulleys if some rpm bothers
I still rock my 98 Evo. 5 speed moves me well enough. I’m not winning any races but I’m getting where I need to go fast enough that I’m in no danger.
@@ChrisSmoove77 But...you can bump things up and get some lower revs at higher speed with a chain.
In the early 2000s, we bought a brand new Harley Davidson Twin Cam Fatboy. The Wife & I loved that bike. Back then our payments were $350 a month. a short time after we bought the FatBoy I got laid off from my job. We decided we had to get out from under those HD payments, so we sold the Fatboy. As a experienced Machinist, I soon found a new job and we saved our dollars and pennies until we had enough to by a used Harley Davidson FatBoy with cash. We were lucky to find a Bad Ass Fatboy owned by a Los Angles Police Officer who was asking $10,000 for a Custom 1992 Fatboy, with Harley Davidson Factory 57' Chevy Blue & Cream paint, Fat Bob tanks, PM wheels & Disk brakes and a stock Evo 80ci motor and cobra long shots pipes. After a little negotiation and whipping out an $8,000 stack of one hundred bills, the Bike was ours! 20 years later and attending the Sturgis Bike Rally for 17 years, we are still riding our 1992 FatBoy and still loving that Evo.
I sold my twin cams even though I never had any issues myself and they had more power than my 98 Evo has. After working on a few twin cams I sold the twin cams. I'll stick with my stock Evo and my 72 FLH Shovlehead.
There's a lot less potential issues on those older engines, the twin cam produces the power but at the cost of reliability. A twin cam can be bullet proofed but were talking some big bucks in parts alone.
@@GixxerFoo agreed . I did a gear drive and cams with my 09 Dyna Street Bob. Its reliable and worry free now. I just replace tires. over 80,000 miles now. Even does OK in our 115 degree phx heat. Keep in mind I kill the motor at long red lights in the heat . Thats something I learned a long time ago with my pans shovels and ironheads. Gotta worry about the rear cylinder and over heating!
Lemon law my 2001 Twinkie, love my 78 FLH Shovel and 99 FLSTC Evo too!
Just stumbled onto your channel, thank UA-cam for that, and I'm really enjoying your wealth of knowledge. I'm new to the Harley world (although a bit long in the tooth) but learning as I go. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
I appreciate you watching the videos! I hope your finding the information you need!
2006 Road King 88 Twin Cam love it 50,000 miles and still going strong.
Damn, have you done any tensioner work or anything?
@@GixxerFoo nope just regular maintenance.
I've had both and installed big bore kits on both. They each have a special place in my heart for different reasons...
What are those different reasons? I'm torn between a 124 evo and a 124 twin cam
That's where I'm at myself, I see the good and the ugly in both motors. Both have their place, just depends how you weigh the options and what you want to do with it.
I have 195K plus on my 07 FLTR stock original drivetrain. A mechanic replaced the cam chain tensioners and lifters at 160K. Occasionally on long trips fully loaded I'll get ~50mpg still. A mechanic diagnosed a stuck injector last year ~190K and recommended Seafoam liquid (follow the directions). 94 FXR stock EVO has just over 86K but was rebuilt by Harley in 2014 at ~72K due to oil pump failing. 14 FLSTC with stock 103 at ~26K and FXR are both hard to start below 50F if they've been sitting more than 2 weeks. Road Glide starts right up. All bikes on battery tenders all year. Thanks for another informative vlog.
I watch your videos over and over, love the info
I have a 1994 Custom Softail with 220,000 KM. Ported and polished, changed cam bearing when fairly new, and changed cam back and forth a few times. Never rebuilt bottom end but did rings on pistons. Most regular maintenance was done by me in my garage. Bigger jobs I'm not equipped to do were done by Danny Brown from Edmonton Harley Davidson owned by Ken Kent owner-operator of Prairie Fire Canadas first 200 MPH Harley Davidson. I've ridden northern Alberta gravel roads, winter with snow in the ditch but clear roads in -10 C. I keep thinking of having it fully rebuilt but at age of 77 I'd unlikely ride it enough, but maybe I'd ride it more if everything worked well.
Great summary and visuals on engine comparisons. Always interesting material here, thanks.
Thank you very much! We appreciate your support!
My 2017 dyna wide glide last production year, kinda hoping all issues have been ironed out. Love my bike. Thx for the information
I will stick with the TC . As long as you take care of your ride Keep up maintenance And give it a good going over every now and then Instead of just putting fuel it in and riding it with no regard to upkeep you will be ok
That's the key to it right there! Most Twin Cams I have worked on I didn't get the whole story from the customer. But when you start tearing the motor down you can start to get the story. Lack of oil changes, hard use etc.
True and that applies to every thing mechanical being it watches, trains planes and automobiles😎
Love your channel and how you generally keep the length to an attention keeping 10 or so minutes. Subscribed. And yeah, not getting rid of my 02 twinky RKC. Did the tensioner upgrade at 52K. 77K+ miles on the clock now and humming along like new. Been running synthetic oil since the breakin oil change. Why synthetic? There's a reason jet engines use synthetic oil. So there you go. 'Nuff said.
Awesome, thank you! The 88 is a great engine with that tensioner upgrade!
I have a 1998 Harley-Davidson Road King Classic with the Magnetti marelli fuel injection ( which has always gotten a bad reputation). My bike has 120,000 miles on it and still runs great. Most of the issues I've had have been sensors....cam position sensor, crank position sensor,throttle position sensor.. these were very easy to fix myself.
1992 FLHTC 88 S&S Stroker 195 PSI cold static compression ,Powerhouse 500 performer cam, S&S Shorty E carb, Baker 6Sp ODtransmission (.086) & A thunderheader . runs away from Twin Cams with Stage 2 kits Very Street~able ,a bit lumpy for slower speed cone course/ parking lot floorboard scraping maneuvering until I got used to it . IMHO Evo the most reliable engine ever made by Harley (or S&S) . Love the Evolution. Twist the throttle & GO!
Love your videos keep up the good work awesome job
My 1 and only Harley is a 2009 Ultra Classic Twin Cam. When I got my 2009 FLHTCU, I had no idea what to expect. Well, I've learned a lot about the Twin cam and it"s issues as well as the Primary, compensator and the auto tensioner. Over all, it is my favorite bike out of all my other bikes.
I put 40k miles on my 88 tc (Andrews conversion cams at 10k). Currently have 50k on my 103HO. Both of my twin cams have been 100% reliable.
That's awesome, that Andrews conversion made it a dead solid motor. What years are your bikes?
2006 Fatboy traded in for 2014 Street Glide Special. The only "failure" on my street glide has been a brake light switch at 40k-ish
Love the Evo in my 87 FXRC...its got a few things done to it and fun as hell to ride. Great video!
Great video. Thank you for sharing
The base gasket problem is from the cylinder heads and cylinder surfaces not being true to the bore. My 1990 evo heads had to be milled .040 to true them up, the cylinders weren't as bad but had to be trued up as well. I would take an evo over the newer engines for the simplicity of maintenance and not needing a lot of special tools.
The problem was cheap, flimsy paper gaskets. If you replace them with Cometic coated metal base gaskets the problem is solved.
I have a 99 Softail Custom with an EVO. I only have 60,000 miles on it, and have had no problems. I did change out the cam brg. at 23,00 just for peace of mind. I have left the motor stock other than that. The cam brg. was an easy replacement in my own garage. I am 80 years old and started riding back in 55 when I was 14 on a 42 flat head. The EVO has a lot more power stock than that 45 flat head. But it was fun to ride. I loved the hand shift foot clutch.
Most of my riding is and hour or so on the back roads around where we live a couple of miles from a small town. I love the simplicity of the EVO motor, and for the kind of riding I do it has plenty of power. But if I want to get on the interstate I have no problem running 75. I rode an 84 Iron Head Sportster for 23 years.
Great videos with lots of good info. I don’t mind watching over and over. Thank you. I’d like to have an evo 👍
Awesome, thank you! Evo's are fun bikes to own and play with, very reliable and easy to work on. Parts are a lot less expensive than twin cams so if you like to experiment with different engine combos you can without going broke.
I have an 2011 96", with over 73K miles with no major issues. Did have to replace a worn compensator at around 69K. Except for having to chase the occasional oil leak it's been solid and still runs great.
That's what I've been saying about the twin cam, just minor maintenance and repair. Compensator at 69K, that's nothing to get upset about at all.
The greatness of the Evo is it's similarity to previous Big Twins -- Shovelhead, Panhead & Knucklehead. The Twin Cam has so many changes it's like a totally different engine. That's not bad, but it kinda feels like it is.
You are correct, they built on the design of previous engines but engineered out the known issues and it just worked! The Twin Cam to me was really strangled by emissions and the styling department. We would of had a redesigned Evo if it wasn't for Harley's styling department.
@@GixxerFoo
Why if not for HD'S styling department we would have had an updated Evo instead of the Twin Cam? Please explain, sounds interesting.
@@GixxerFoo
PS: I just remembered hearing this from an old dealer years ago. The Evo engine was just supposed to be a cheap stopgap measure to serve in the lineup until the Porsche developed Nova modular engine platform was ready. But the new Evo turned out so much better than they expected and guys liked it so much that its success helped kill the entire Nova project. Ever hear that?
The Evo is really an evovled Shovelhead
@@Prairie_Barbarian
Yes, just like Shovelhead is an evolved Panhead which is an evolved Knucklehead, etc.
I love my EVO. 1998 Road King Classic (fuel injection)with 15,000 miles. Bought it from the original owner in May 2019. Bike looks like it just came off the assembly line. Not a flaw or scratch. It just goes and goes! All my riding buddies on their TC's are so jealous! Lol
now you are saying words that i can understand concise clear and to the point i wish my shop teacher spoke more like you do i wouldn't have had to figure out so much on my own.. who knows maybe i learned more that way cheers
Own a Shovel , an Evo and a TC 88 . Proudly ride them all equally. Harleys forever.
You got the trifecta of engines that had some sound!
Had an 87 EVO Sporty, only real problem I had was that 1rst gear tooth broke off and tore up the alternator stator. Because of that, battery was frequently dead. Dealership found the problem, then also found that there was a recall for that gear issue. Only cost me the fluids for repair. Ran great until I sold it. Thanks for the informative video, as usual.
Good content..my son rides a 92 flhs EVO n I have an 08 RK Twin..we like both bikes of course..but u r right on the base gaskets on my son's bike has a little seepage..nothing horrible..has a 39k right now..other than that it rides like a charm
...😀
.
My dad had a 99 superglide that he sold with something like 68k miles on it and the engine still ran and sounded fantastic. Didnt leak or burn any oil, would always fire up immediately, etc. It was actually the rest of the bike that was clapped. He ended up giving it to me abut 10-12 years ago and I was on a Husky 450 supermoto at the time so I had no interest in riding it, especially after one ride around the block where EVERYTHING was loose on it. I swear even the levers had half an inch of play up and down while the bike was idling and i ended up selling it for pennies on the dollar a week later.
Fast forward to last week and I grabbed a 2006 Dyna (after actually watching your video about the '06).
The general consensus i seem to have gathered around youtube and the internet is that the TC88 isnt the greatest for making power, but if you leave them relatively stock, then theyll last forever. My dad did nothing to his besides change oil something like every 6-8k miles (again, maintenance is not in his vernacular), rode the thing for 40k miles or so and the ONLY issue he had for the entire time he had the bike was my brother had the drive belt snap on him in the late 40k mile range, while borrowing the bike to get to work (due to his car being broken down also due to lack of maintenance hahaha).
I guess what I'm saying is my family had this bike, both my brother and dad rode it for a while with absolutely zero maintenance as theyre the typical rednecks who wait till something breaks to do any sort of maintenance and the '06 I grabbed has 20k miles and runs AMAZINGLY. Makes no funny noises, in fact the engine is a lot quieter than even my last buell was. I got it for a steal too, $4999.99 from the harley dealership.
Another great video thanks for sharing ☝️👍
Great video!
I ride 1st year evo.
Soft tail.
1984.
Runs great!
Thanks for the great video!!
Wrist pin keeper popped out on my 89 evo. This happened just when the twin cam came out. The first twin cam came into the dealer from the factory and the dealer was trying to get me to trade in my broken evo. I was told it was mine after they performed a dyno test. The cam case exploded during the dyno run.
After 30 years I finally traded in my evo for a M8. I completely skipped the twin cam models. The dude who owns my evo loves it. I put 40mm cv carb, bolt in cam and polished the ports in the heads and gave it a two into one exhaust. Among other goodies. For a evo dresser, it would spin up fast and haul ass.
The M8 received similar treatment to the evo. Good Lord!
It's hard to beat a good Evo, those are some awesome motors! Those M8's are no joke, they will lay down the power in short order. We put a Red Shift 468 in my friends 2018 Street Glide, holy crap that thing pulls hard and it's a 107.
Sooo, I’ve been a Harley rider for almost 50 years and my experience has been do your maintenance as prescribed along with replacing any worn parts that you WILL find as is true with anything with moving parts and you’ll be fine. I currently have a 2014 RG CVO tc that I do ride hard at times. Went to a set of Fueling 574 cams about 10k miles ago and the bike does real good with them. I now have 52k miles on it,(most I’ve ever had on a bike) so right now it’s torn down and am putting in the HD 117 big bore. Did the cam chain tensioner @ 24k and I’ll do it again now since I’ll be in there anyway.
That's the way to do it, just keep up on the maintenance and know your motor. Replace those know wear items before they become an issue. Too many people never do any of that and blame the motorcycle when it fails.
@@GixxerFoo thanks for the reply. Very proactive on your part. I’m usually one of those quiet listeners. Your videos are very informative and I tell a lot of people about how you speak, clear and structured.
I'm just finishing my 3rd rebuild and 4th paint job on my 1990 fxr superglide. I bought her new and she's out lasted 2 wives.
My 05 XL883L is a great bike! Thankfully I haven't had any issues with it since I bought it. It has great power and with a cam and Thunderheader exhaust it has a lot of punch! Power wheelies are easy as hell!
Love my EVO 1200! It has a lot of aftermarket stuff in it, and it's a 1995 with 15K miles. It has a Crane cam in it and also had their programable electronic module, until that exploded on me one day Of course they went out of business so I had to replace it with another brand. It's no longer in race mode :) Next weekend I'm gone look at a 97 Road King with an EVO 1343. They're so easy to work on, and that's why I love them. I'm not a motorcycle mechanic but I've done all but a little of my own work just from watching guys like you on here! Thanks for what you do, and wish me luck with my next purchase Saturday. You've helped me out already!
Did you get your Road King ..??
@@jerrybigrig9475 I found a "97" FLHR RK with an EVO (99 was the last year I believe) 75K miles, and purrs like a kitten. Only changed front bearings, brake pads, and riser bushings. Also fresh oils. I'm loving it :)
Love my 02 RK. Twin cam. I already replaced the tensioners 4 years ago and I’ll do it again if need be. , checked them this spring , they were still 100%.
That's awesome! You've got the Timken bottom end too, I wouldn't let that bike go!
Gday gixxer foo it’s been a while,I have a 2001 fxdwg that I bought with 9800km on the clock 11 years ago .It now has 180 000km still on original top end. Had the se cam plate upgrade done at 65000km. It’s still running fine but I’ve decided to rebuild it and it’s getting the S&S stroker flywheels with my cylinders bored to 95 which will make it a 103 stroker. Really looking forward to the extra torque 🙂👍🏼
I love my EVO, it's not perfect, but the reliability can't be beat.
I've got the Evo Sportster 2006 1200 my only complaint is it needs another gear otherwise it's great
Except by any japanese motor.
@@seanbutler2291 wouldn't own a Japanese bike.
@@thomaskirkpatrick4031 makes sense as to why u think the evo is soooo reliable. Btw u already do, harleys are choc full of japanese, Chinese, mexican, taiwanese parts. Its like a man who hates the sea but only ever been in a bathtub. The honda shadow ace was literally built here in america by americans. And harley sued them cuz it was too good. Valkyrie made here, goldwing.... Hell id argue the japanese out do harley in american made. At this point shit.
@Swamp Gas Pilot If I was rich I would have a couple from each model year, but I've got to be honest the Twin Cam and the M-8 are way down on my list of Harley engines I wish to own. The M-8 is a throw away motor, not really designed or manufactured with decades of usefulness in mind, it's not like you will see someone restoring a bike with an M-8 in 70 years from now.
Your close , so first off early small block twin cam heads 99 though 05 do not out flow evo heads. The twin cam is more powerful due to better combustion chamber design providing more squish area and a better burn. The stud locations didn’t have anything to do with leaky cylinder bases . Twin cams don’t leak because they use an oring not a base gasket spacing had to be spread due to larger bore size . Evos are mediocre at best no power and the cylinders are absolutely garbage they are way to thin everywhere they warp at the bottom causing the base leaks and the bores are round like a stop sigh.. Harleys oil rings are amazing. Twin cams don’t leak oil everywhere .
Straight garbage huh. 60k and still going. But its garbage right? Gtfoh
Just pulled the trigger on an Ultima 113CI Evo. Can't wait to get it on the road
Thanks for the great videos!
How could you forget about the porosity problem on the early Evo cases? And you are correct as the head and base gaskets from Harley on the Evo were not good at all.
And besides the cam tesioner problems on the Twin cam.
What about the oil pump on the Twin Cams that did not scavenge enough, and would blow oil out the air cleaner, until they fixed the oil pump and cam tensioner problem. Was it in 2006? And you were right about the cranks going to shite after 2002/2003. As they went to a cheaper cast crank, (China?) cheaper bearings, and the runout on the cranks got so bad that on most of them you could not run geared cams on the stock cranks anymore.
I'm on the 107 Milwaukee 8, 2018, and so far I've got 42k on it. I had to get a new transmission at 30k because 6 th gear straight up broke. I've had a cracked header pipe, and leaky seals. I don't red line this engine I just ride this thing EVERYWHERE. Good thing I got the extended warranty because all this work was covered
Got a 96 evo and 99 twin cam. The only problems I've had are the tensioners on the twin wearing out and the primer flaking in the tank on the 99. I put a gear kit in the twin to get rid of the tensioner issues. No issues with the evo.
i like your videos.Good questions and discussions.
103 TC here. First HD and love it. No problem apart of drained battery in freezing weather:)
Twin Cam isn't a bad engine at all, just keep up on the maintenance and give it a good once over now and again!
40k on my 103 with no real issues.
Very Informative. We Have a Gentleman in Australia with a 1987 FXST with Close to now 500 000 Thousand Ks who's Never had the Heads off.. Regular Oil Changes . Oh ,,and his Rear guard is Signed by Mr Bill Davidson..
Love the Evo. Thanks Gixx!
Evo is one of my favorite engines, the sound of one really sticks out at bike night!
Thanks Foo! Great video, always FULL of INFO-TAIN -MENT.
Gixx... Can you do a video on washing bikes?!? Give a detailed run down on all the different parts or wiring you dont wanta get wet and if there's any different types of oaint like the black denim that can only be washed with a non chemical based soap. ThanQ Gixx! Love the channel. You get straight to the point and give the better perspective when it comes to situational instances. 👍💪👊
I'll look into doing one when it starts to warm up here, lol bike really need a good wash but it's below freezing here right now.
Cylinder studs pull because either there all corroded or someone jumped on that band wagon where they were told to change the stock studs out for high tensile ones . If you have to replace corroded studs it’s the stock ones they never break because there designed to have some stretch the high strength ones do not stretch well guess what happens when the cylinder grows when it gets hot the threads give out . Stock studs have never failed me on any engine build from mild to 13:1 you need the stretch
That makes a lot of sense about the high tensile studs, Harley did have some casting issues at one point on Evo cases. High tensile studs either way in a stock case would contribute to the issue. That goes back to saying any engines main problem is the owner lol.
love the evo content!
I still own a TC 110 . I have 64,000 miles on it and still running excellent. My M8 114 is very nice though.
What's your thoughts on that 114 compared to your 110?
@@GixxerFoo the 110 I have. I gutted the cat,put a SE ventilator,did a power commander 5 and Rhinehart slip ons. The true Dyno numbers were 100 hp and 119 tq. Runs pretty strong. For a 900lb. Bike. I love it. My 114 has a stage2 with SE ventilator, V&H power duals head pipe, 4.5" krome werks slip ons and street tuner and auto tuner. It's a beast for being 900lbs. The technology between the two are night and day difference though. The new Roadglide has everything. Navigation, gts2,I updated and redid most every part of the bike. I'll keep both of them forever. I don't want or need a newest version. Harley is giving less these days for a bigger sticker price. I'm 57 years old and I'm set . That is unless I see something that I JUST GOT TO HAVE. I'm sure alot of us know that deal.
I remember when the evo came out.
Hear no EVO
See no EVO
Speak no EVO
People hated them at first. Called them junk.
No they love it
I have that sticker 😁 was reluctant to put it on the shovelhead -
Right! Lol that's just Harley in general, now I may eat my words but I don't see us all loving the Live Wire anytime soon.
@@GixxerFoo the new green deal 😁🤮
@@GixxerFoo Same thing happened when the M8 was released and now people are finally starting to warm up to it.
Love my twin cam, but have no problem adding a evo to my stable at some point.
Those Evo's are starting go up in price, especially if they are clean. Now low miles and clean you might be paying more than what you'd like, but it's worth it!
@@GixxerFoo there would have to be a reasonable cut off, but for me if I pay the premium I'll never sell, just ride the wheels off.
@@GixxerFoo Great to hear that! I own a '94 Heritage Classic with only 10k miles :D
Really informative and interesting. Thanks a lot!
I have an adv bike but looking to buy an old HD. I don't know much about HD models but I am currently falling in love with the slow "potato" sound of an Heritage Softail with a carburator I heard. Now wondering if that would be a wise buy. Videos like this one are really great for learning. Thanks again.
No problem at all, what year are you looking at? There's quite a bit of difference in a Evo and even in the carbed twin cam years. The carbed 88's had some tensioner issues but the 99 to 02 models had the better lower end.
@@GixxerFoo it's more about the sound that I like than the year I think. Really like the slow "potato" sound and I think the models with carburator are the more satisfying for my ears. But at the same time, I like to ride à lot and here in Quebec, the temperature can change from 40°c to 12°c (104 to 53°f) in few days. So injection is a lot more efficient. So for the reliability I think the M8 from 2018nand up could be a better choice. And since I like cornering, maybe the Fat Bob 114 should be my better choice. But maybe not a good one for long trips like I like to do... 😕 Maybe I'll have to keep my adventure bike for my ride style...
Is the pushrod angle on the shovel pan etc the same as the Evo? Great channel
Great video!
Thanks! We appreciate your support on the channel!
Had my TC for about a year now, great engine. Smooth and easy to maintain. Sounds great.
"The twin cam engine isn't all that bad".
LOL, my 2000 has 85,000 miles on it. No leaks, nothing broke and it starts and runs like a new one. I have done basic maintenance and always used synthetic oils. The engine is factory stock condition, no modifications and I never beat it. I do need to check those cam tensioners. The dealer took care of them at the 36000 mile check up so they are due. This time I'm doing it myself. Bought a shop manual and I'm reviewing several YT videos on that issue. Seems to me that twin cam is an amazing engine.
They are great motors if you take care of them. Too many let them go and wonder why they fail 🤷♂️.
Got a 2000 twin cam and got rid of it a year later , went back to 98 road king which I still ride today with Torrington bearing put in it . Still runs great, No twin scam for me.
Evo not as fast as twin cam. but don't care the sound and feel of an evo you know you are riding a harley
Evo has a sound and feel the Twin Cam can't replicate, a nice cam and exhaust in a Evo and you can get them up there in the 75 horse range. A little more with some added compression but you get too much in a Evo and there's a whole new set of problems that start happening.
Currently trying to decide between an Evo and early TC Softail for my next bike...really appreciate this video!
You're welcome, the Evo just cruises and it's not in a big hurry. The Twin Cam has more power and it will creep up on the speedo running down the highway. That's been my experience between the two motors.
@@GixxerFoo thanks for the reply! My last bike was a 103” Road Glide, and I def get what you mean. Take a hundred lbs off going to a softail and I can see that could be an issue haha
@@JW23551 Softails ride really nice, you just don't have the width and weight of the touring frame. The weight is nice running down the highway but trying to maneuver one in a parking lot can a lot of fun lol.
My 2001 FXSTB has a 136K miles on it. Minor maintenance on it at home. 2007 rode it from Jacksonville Florida to Sturgis SD. Still running. No I haven’t increased horsepower besides pipes and breather. Not fast but I don’t race but it goes on down the road.
Love the evo best harley i ever own.
That sound the reliability on the Evo says a lot to me, to me they are modern classics.
@@GixxerFoo classic indeed the Evo is now taught as early model at MMI. Its interesting to note that at MMI early model is not a mandatory class as most dealerships wont touch those bikes or sell you parts for them . A HD dealership isnt allowed to UNLESS they are enrolled in the factory early model program.
@@chopperchopster Most of us agree that Evos are far from obsolete; but HD's parts dept says otherwise frequently. The aftermarket wont serve you for many peripherals. Im surprised how few evos I see on the roads in NZ....no idea where they all went? Do many folks ride them where you are as a regular ride Adam?
@@David-og7di I still see evos here in phx. However the vast majority of hd i see are twin cam. No idea where all the evolution bikes went. I find them for sale on craigslist though. I'm thinking I should get one to park next to my pans shovels and ironheads. Not park . I ride all of my bikes.
@@David-og7di here in CA there's a ton of people riding evos still
If the Twin-Cam had been made with a gear drive for the cams instead of the chains it would have been a very reliable engine.
Love my twin 2015 cam run's great gonna put s&s 583 cams in next week gonna be great. 07 Sportster evo was a fine engine for me also.
Your new cams is gonna wake that bike up! Those Sportster motors are a bullet proof design!
I bought a "98 Evo for my wife's bike new and a "98 TC for me new. We put a bigger cam in the EVO at about 30K, Stage one was already done @ 500 miles. We then rode it to 80,000 miles and the top end was worn out. We put new S&S cylinders, Pistons, and rings along with new valve guides and seals and are at just under 100K now on that bike. During that time we had to replace two starters and three Stator's. OK service but certainly not great I would say.
On the TC I had a gear drive set up installed with a mild cam at 15,000 miles because of all of the issues around the cam chain tensioners as a preventative strike before something happened. The new design for the hydraulic tensioners had not come out yet. We then rode that bike to 85,000 miles and it was still going strong in fact on my last trip before I sold it it used a half a pint of oil in 3500 miles. That's it. nothing else ever went wrong with that motor, not even any leaks. On both bikes the oil was changed every 2500 miles. The TC is still going strong today at nearly 100K for the person I sold it to.
So for me the TC is and has been a lot better motor especially when I consider the huge gain in power over the EVO. I replaced the '99 with a '14 so I'll see how that goes. Wife still has the EVO and I have added an M8 to the livery.
You've got some nice bikes! Twin Cams aren't all bad if you take the steps you did with it! Now Evo, that's just basically an indestructible big twin.
I had over 59k miles on my twincam with no issues.
That's what I like to hear, the Twin Cam isn't a bad engine at all. As with anything there's gonna be failures on anything mass produced. I bet you've really kept up on your maintenance too!
i got almost 70k on my 02 FSXT! i love it
@@GixxerFoo I always take care of my bikes and respect them.I have to remind myself that I'm not motorbike racer though. If I don't things don't end well.
Personally, my first choice of upgrading from an Ironhead Sporty, was an EVO FXR. But, here, in Honolulu, that was wishful thinking, because I didn't want to go the shipping one in from the Mainland route. So, settled on an '05 FXDWG(carb'd), with less than 4,000 miles on the odometer. This was in Nov., 2019, shortly before the start of COVID19.
I feel, the EVO is a better platform to start with, from the dual Timken case bearings, and the all gear to gear design within the camchest. Simpler, proven reliable design, massive aftermarket performance available. Really wasn't enamored with the Twin-Cam's failure prone(pre hydraulic) cam chain tensioners, and, in my case, The Motor Co. taking a few steps backwards, by removing the pinion side Timken Bearing, for a weaker(cheaper) , straight roller style INA bearing, all in the name of cutting manufacturing costs! Only time will tell, dependability wise, about my misgivings!
Also, now that I have this '05 WG, an EVO FXR was offered for sale recently, here on O'ahu, for $8k! Ugh! 😑
After decades of riding from Pans to Twinkies, I decided to go back to a 92 Evo. Always warm up engine to cook gaskets and do your maintanence. Evos are bulletproof if kept maintained.
I have a friend with two motorcycles . Both Harley’s . He bought the 74 EVO when it was two years old . He has rebuilt that bike three times over the years and it’s still as road worthy as most any motorcycle today . He runs it with a mild cam and it runs right along side my twin cam 88 any day of the week .
I wouldnt mind a new bagger with an Evo motor. I have a 103 TC in my 13 Streetglide and ive had good luck with it. MPG sucks though. If they had stuck with the Evo and really dialed them in and lightened up the bike by 50lbs that would of been cool. I will say my 103 TC rides pretty great, like no vibration on the highway, just smooth as glass and burns less oil then my Evo did. Great video btw
My buddy has a 111 (i think that's what it is) EVO in his 2016 SE CVO StreetGlide because the 110 had too many issues and got too hot. It's alot quicker, reliable now and has that big EVO sound 👍. He still has the 110 put aside for resale value if he ever sells the bike.
That's pretty cool! Very good idea actually too, did he get the S&S motor?
@@GixxerFoo
Yes, it's an S&S. He was going to get an Ultima but got a decent deal on the S&S.
I have had a head stud give out on a set of s&s cases, so its not just a HD case issue. Also an inner cam bearing issue on a stock evo, and indeed it was a catastrophic failure... I was able to salvage the carb and the heads.
I have a 1999 Softail custom Evo and I also have a 2008 96 in Softail custom and I like them both
You've got the best of both world there! Which one do you ride more often?
@@GixxerFoo all right the evil most often within 150 mile radius and my 96 for long distance rides out of state
I absolutely love my 96 tc in my 07 sg.. my 98 wg with 88 ran good also..
😮🎉 thanks I appreciate the info
Getting my first HD next week 93 Dyna. I can’t wait to rip this Evo motor around
Good choice! The Evo is an awesome motor, parts are more inexpensive and they are easy to work on.
I love my 96 cu inch Twin Cam. 53 K original miles and still going strong.
That's awesome! They are some bikes to keep forever!
Bought my 2011 dyna street bob new and left it bone stock till 2017 when I put in the SE 110 tire shredder kit (106hp/122tq). Bike has only 13500 mi on it as we have a extremely limited riding season here in Wisconsin. I'm pretty soft on it actually for how fast it is, I do the "basic" maintenance so far so good. I have yet to ride a M8 though!!
I bet that really woke that bike up with that kit!
Wow, man. Well said. You NAILED it.
Thank you! A lot people know your video about trading your Twin Cam for the Evo. I turn a lot of people onto it if they don't! Your video really said it all trading your 103.
OK the cyclinders stud issue would never have been an issue untill HD started putting in the studs upside down the base gasket issue is mainly cause from no engine warm up & cheap ass paper gaskets they get brittle with age & crack causing the leak the lifter issue was a too small axle on roller that cam bearing issue is crap bearing & should be replaced on all Evo & twin cam motors period the cyclinders stud location is not an issue the only problem with an Evo is you can't build a big motor because of the small deck area ! Any TC motor after 2006 is junk ! My everyday bike is a 91 FXR that is about 90 hp & has been running for at least 8 years like that good luck making a hot rod Twinkie motor run that long !
FXR is one sweet ride, finding a clean one and they are gold. Most will come in boxes that are cheap or they don't know what they have.
Actually any TC after 2002 is junk, it's when the internals were being made out of cheap pot tin.
Just run 20w-50 racing in your EVO and you will not have any wear. Ever. Run the same in your primary. Keep it clean. Enjoy the ride.
I love my evo, (I also have a twin cam). Great video because sometimes we get rosy colored glasses and forget about thin cases(especially around lifter blocks), gasket sealing issues, bad bearings, spun bearings etc.. just like the twin cam, the after market is your friend. But the evo is still my favorite and yes I have owned Shovelheads as well. Great channel.
When are you going to do a build??????????????!!!!
@@jimleathers7747 starting on building out a fxdf with some engine work. I build when it snows....Ride when it isnt lol
Another great video thanks!!
I love my SE110 Twin Cam!
#16FLSS
That 110 is a fun motor to run on!
I think the more I work on her and learn about her the more I appreciate her. My 02 Road King.
That's the beauty of working on your own bike, you really get a sense of pride in it and become one with the machine.
100% Bro !!!
A 95" twin cam with an upgraded camchest is a formidable powerplant.
They are some serious power producers and they do it very reliably, I would liken one of those motors with a upgraded cam chest to Sportster reliability level.
Yeah, for sure. With that shorter stroke it rev's quick.
When I bought my Softail twin cam brand new in 04 no one told me about the cam tensioners it doesn't even say anything in the owner's manual about the cam tensioners .At 36,000 miles I had my tensioners changed from Spring tensioners to hydraulic also had to have high performance oil pump installed. While they were at it I had them install new cams nothing stupid. my little 88 twin cam runs pretty good.
I did the exact same thing to my twin cam 88 2006 Softail with the hydraulic tensioners and high flow oil pump and upgraded to Screaming Eagle 203 cams, but I went a step further and did the big bore to 95 ci's and added new pistons with hand porting of the heads and it runs beautifully now with a nice loping idle to boot!