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RINGS II: a documentary on star citizens toxic underworld
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- Опубліковано 26 лис 2023
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Be sure to check out the "CORE SKILLS PLAYLIST" for your first steps into PVP
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Thanks for putting that together A1. The SC community is one of the most passionate gaming communities I've ever seen. Sadly the opposite end of the passion can be a high level of toxicity which has expressed itself in many forms over the years. Seeing people so organized toward hurting others is truly discouraging and I hope videos and work like this can make some headway toward fostering a more positive space.
I hope @missgabiz knows that she's a valued member of the community. I don't know her well but in the brief moments I have interacted with her, she has been nothing but positive and generous with her time and knowledge.
Thank you brother 🙏 💙
thank you so much lvlcap 😔❤️ it means a lot
Liberties Creepers are greoos.
Dude, please stop giving validity to this guy. He’s such a hack when he gets killed in game. Now he’s trying to stir up drama with his Michael Bay style documentaries in an effort to hold relevance.
@@reveille1289 Stop minimizing this, how people behave in the game no matter whether one does right or wrong, it doesn't matter. Fantastic work by A1 for exposing these bastards who take the harassment outside the game, who expose people, spit on people. Focus on the problem
I think the only thing A1 forgot from the end there was to say that if anyone out there feels alone and helpless, you are not alone, there is help for you and people care about you. Life has meaning no matter what your brain tries to tell you.
Be open to your friends, reach out to a professional, it is never too late.
Also be considerate of your friends who are in a dark place, don't leave them there.
100% agree, well said
Well said, Kappa. Good man.
100%
❤️
Love you Kappa
This isn't even toxic anymore, this is straight up evil.
😂😂😂😂 hahahahahhahaha😂😂😂😂
@@djm6431 the fact you found this funny is disturbing.
"Oh but iz juzt jokes, hurrdurr"
@@3081s1k LR : Smacks you in the head with hammer
Also LR : iz juzt prankz broz
Those who are evil see themselves as the heroes of their own stories and believe what they is right. These guys, these guys do it because they can and for the lolz. They are not evil, they are worse
When I started dogfighting two years ago, those were my role models. I measured myself against them and wanted to be like them. It's just shameful to see how former role models can be such disgusting people. At first I felt nauseous, then I felt angry at players like that, who outwardly carry the idea of fair play. What hypocrites.
Thank you very much for this video and all your efforts.
This is half the reason I don't stay with any one org for more than a few weeks, max. Almost every single PVP dogfighting Org I've joined or been aquianted with have ended up showing themselves to be toxic. Deep South Aerospace, Blackwater, hell I even flew with a couple LR people for a while.
Every single one of them end up being shitlords.
That’s because LR wasn’t always like this. Whistleblowers in LR said that it was a gradual progression of toxic behavior over time.
"Never meet your heroes."
This is disturbing. It's not just toxic, it's cyberbullying. It would hold up in court.
Your right
No. Considering the conclusions of A1s claims is "I feel like" and "you decide", it would get thrown out in an instant.
should report them on YT honestly. YT itself has guidelines for online harassment. people like the basement dwelling trolls should NOT monetize on the mental state of other gamers. ITS WRONG!
@@IdleWorker he provides clear evidence. Authorities would get MORE evidence. My opinion is that they should be held accountable. 🤷🏾♂️ Let's not act like any of this is ok.
@@IdleWorkerHe's doing that because he's not a lawyer, nor actually going to court, so it's safer to just say things like feel. If this goes to court of course he wouldn't be the one making the claims, but the evidence WOULD present a clear case of cyberbullying and harrasment. Nobody is saying that whatever he says here are literally legal claims.
LR hides behind "memes" and "jokes" or "private chat" trying not to take any responsibility for their actions.
In reality, their actions in private reflect who they truly are.
Liberty reapers are nothing but a sad joke. They need to grow up and hopefully one day they will become real men.
Thank you for showing us their despicable behavior. A1, you are a true man. Much respect brother.
I’m kind of astonished. The fact that some grown ass adults do stuff like this over a game that is not even out yet is incredible. What a bunch of losers. They even try to sound like super villains or something. Fedora tip to them.
it's astonishing that at least one of them is a parent.
these are the people who really need other hobbies than gaming.... it would help humanity honestly
They game is out, it's not finished. There's a difference. What has been talked about in this video isn't that bad compared to some situations; adults are just as insane as children, but they have nobody to answer to if the law doesn't get involved.
This does not surprise me at all. Having been target of very intense bullying in my childhood not just from other kids but teachers and parents of the bullies. This is what causes some victims to lash out, cave in mentally or commit suicide. People like this destroy any community not just the victims they target
You know what's great here is that all you needed to do was show this conversation, and anyone with a brain can see how toxic these guys are. And cig should 100% remove them this is beyond "just a game"
Thats the joke. Such people coming up with "chill it's just a game, it's just fun." Yup, as long as they get what they want, It's all just a game and no one else should complain... These people are just floating in their narcissistic bubble. Even if they fell they wouldn't be able to touch grass.
100% agree, IMO CIG should delete and non refund any purchased ships. itll be for their betterment to just rejoin the real world
the ones foudn to be partaking cyber bullying (directly contacting someone after they ask you to stop etc) or doxing 100% agree CIG should ip ban there accounts etc as for memes in a org discord good luck you would need to ban most of the players as lets be honest every single person alive as laughed at someone else at some point in time behind there back with friends right.
as for the other org vs org talk about pushing to dosband orgs and black ops etc that existed in eve for decades its all part of the higher tier org vs org lifestyle and not for casuals (like myself which is why i dont try to get involved with those kind of big name orgs they allways come with added drama and toxic behaviour on both sides and as avenger himself says "there is always three sides to a story, theres, his and the truth....)
These mfkrs probably believe they are not doing something literally ilegal, they think nothing could happen IRL, specially to them...That's how much of an idiot they are, sociopaths like them think that shit is normal.
@@darthhatespeech5329
"What if your life got posted in public?"
"Well that's, that's not my problem, you know."
"Thats not your problem?"
"Of course not! ... My life? Or your life? What are you talking about?"
"What I'm saying is, what if someone posted your personal information in a public space? What if someone doxxed the shit out of you?"
"Yeah, that's wrong!"
What a POS
The more I watched this, the angrier I got. Having been close to some of what was talked about in the video, I appreciate you making this video.
Same...
small ass world aint it?
Right there with you, quite literally.
CIG needs to ban the people involved in the making of those heinous acts from their IRL events. The spitting happened on their ground and they have to take actions so this never happens again. Truly despicable.
I have had this convocation with kraiklyn (Former Lead Community Moderator) multiple times in the past to the point I was warned if I continue, I would be banned from the game... was told repeatedly, "As moderation, we can only operate within cig's own official domain" ~ I have shown cig blackmail, doxing, threats of violence, hacking, recordings and offered to bring a 4gig+ usb of these peoples actions, confessions and communities.... even of people talking about what happened to them with witness testaments along with all available evidence and was told again and again that it's not their problem and that I myself was part of the problem.
So no. They won't get banned and if you Hunt them in-game, you run the risk of being banned, but it's fine for them to kos/hunt/greif you.
There is no "Justice" ~ and if you seek it yourself within cig's domain, they will come after you...even posting this here may get me in trouble despite having all the information to back up what I've said and all parties involved, including cig's lawyers being well aware of the truth of my words.
I'm afraid, it's down to the big voices to push this rock up the hill and unlike sisyphus, reach the summit. I did my part and nearly lost everything.
Agreed. They should be dis-invited to future events held by CIG forever.
Permanently ban them all from the game too, and report them to the police where appropriate.
Indeed. All because he could not control his kid brother. Where are the parents! So now they harrass Gabi under "it's my family" and "somebody's life" arguments. And yet, what about the lives of people getting doxxed and harraed.
I can’t believe how insane this is. I literally just want to low fly and do box missions. Can’t believe this is part of the SC community.
That's why I don't usually play online games. I hate RL drama and play games to avoid having that.
you can just do that and ignore all this bullshit. I do. I only came to the video to see if it was karl that was being talked about lol
Don't worry man, it's just a tiny fringe part. Overall one of the best game communities you will find.
its rare to find "That Group" that fits you best. but when you do find it, it changes the game completely. I hope you find yours soon brother!
Who tf spits on people in public? Been pretty sad to see how some people treat Gabs, our orgs have done events together and she legitimately is just trying to build a great place for herself and anyone who wants to be a part of that. Really no reason to attack any of that. :/
you're so nice, thank you so much for this 😭♥
What the heeellll, thats fuckin insane
On god, if I was there and saw that there would have been hands thrown. What kind of pathetic degen do you have to be to do something that ridiculous.
When people think spitting on or near people is a good social interaction, they are part of the problem... sorry. No matter where someone comes from, if they dish out nastiness casually like this, they are deeply toxic.
@@missgabiz Never be afraid to press charges or go to the authorities. Even if it happened in the past.
Former LR, left about a year ago. Just shut down discord and put SC in a cold storage HDD rather than log into stress of what was supposed to be a fun game. One dude (generally cool dude) contacted me about 4 months after I just got fed up and just went AFK due to drama. None of the other peeps even checked in. People were moved into positions of "authority" that were emotionally unstable. I thought I had friends there. The only real friend apparently was my cousin who also left.
I remember you AI were around for a couple of cool events that I really enjoyed last nov-ish? A race and a scrim I think (fuzzy memory). (i remember being irritated at a ship that was spotlighting us ground dudes)
After watching this, wow, I'm really glad I left after my "leadership element" screamed at me in during a training event. I don't get it, they're supposed to be adults.
I was sold that it was an "elite" organization. As a filthy casual around that time, this is eye opening. I don't have sticks so I was crap at flying and just a ground guy, (i liked the tanks and ballistas). Hearing the "Just a prank bro," attitude is kinda stomach churning. The fact it left the game is totally unacceptable. Play the villain in game, be a pirate.
Gabs, if I ever did anything to offend you, I sincerely apologize.
I'm no angel, but this level of toxic is not ok, and speaking out should have been more important than fitting in.
To the community, I'm sorry for not doing a better job of being my brother's keeper.
(not that they would have listened to me from the sounds of it)
Fkn_Ra
Thank you brother 🙏
Does this not seem criminal to anyone else? Someone died... This makes me so mad... The whole thing.
Also spitting on someone is a crime.. at least where I’m from.
@@MishaDark I agree. @missgabiz should go to the police and file charges if they live in CA or if their laws provide coverage. People shouldn't be afraid to challenge their attackers. Especially if she goes public with the fact she pressed charges. People will support that. In my life, I've had to make the challenging decision to go to the police and press charges. Did it go anywhere? Not legally because at the time I lacked hard evidence, but there was an investigation. People learned boundaries.
I know these types of trolls and assholes have always existed but it feels like in the last few decades it's slowly exited the games. It's absolutely batshit that people are taking it out of the game and demands sweeping action. I appreciate all the effort that you've put towards verification and bringing an overwhelming amount of evidence. Also thanks to the moles who revealed this disgusting behavior
Goonswarm in EVE Online did this continuously as well. Their alliance leader, on a council of player leaders, threatened physical assault on a player that said on the forums that they didn't like him, among other things, at a meeting, where they were being recorded, in the presence of CCP Games employees, and was immediately permabanned. They should have banned the whole corp. He was _that comfortable_ with making physical threats of harm, aka, assault, that they do it in public in a place where they're surrounded by people they should keep their horrible thoughts to themself around, and they _still can't keep their mouths shut._ These horrible shitbags always out themselves.
They deserve to be banned! Bunch of liars!
ButteryPancakes using "What if it wasn't my little brother ...." bull*** to justify his actions is pathethic!
The feuds, the rivalries, the highs and the lows are essential to the game and its authenticity as a sandbox
but it shouldn't follow you home or the real world 😥
Agreed
Agreed, taking things outside the realm of the game is patently disgusting.
While I do fully agree with you I do have to point out that Streamers put themselves in the spot light willingly for profit. It's a double-sided blade.
Also going after other orgs with the aim to destroy them or deliberately killing the livelyhood and career of streamers because "completely destroying the competition is what gamers do" is massively f-ed up.
@@Biggiejohn being a streamer doesn’t invite people to harass or spit on you. L take tbh
Wow how unhinged and completely unacceptable, Thanks A1 for being a leader in the community and exposing this toxic filth.
Perfect example of why I don't have much use for Orgs unless they are just very loose and fun. Some people take stuff way too seriously and it just leads to toxic crap like this. It's just a game.
Same. .. games are supposed to be a fun way to pass some time but some of these gangs are full of people who blur the lines between the virtual world and real life. They have serious issues inside their heads as far as I can see.
Yes I experienced that too. I don’t feel comfortable when org members constantly talking shit about A1, berks, vergil and many others. Its taking too serious all the time.
Lot of Org out there that do dirty shit but first I've seen to this extreme 😳 what a bunch of shit bags
thank you for bringing the truth to light ❤
You're telling me, I didn't know I was living rent-free by this much. A few of my LR friends would DM me about their orgmates crying about me here and there, but I did not know they were crying about me that much. Like good grief, its a game.
I don’t know you as I’m a week into SC but I know what bullying and toxic behavior looks like. These “people” are straight losers in life and frankly disgusting. They have dark hearts and are dead inside. I wish you nothing but peace in your life. You seem like a really good person and I’m sorry this BS happened to you. All these guys are weak “men” and it’s truly gross. Absolute losers. They haven’t won in life, and are mad at people living theirs. They truly are worthless weak and cowardly boys. o7 o7
Are you the Gabi being discussed in the video?
This is absolutely shocking behaviour from Liberty Reapers. The behaviour around Gabi should have been stamped out immediately.
😢❤
This^ Org leaders should have extinguished this fire well before it took hold, people got burnt, hurt and now everything you have built up may well burn to the ground. If you are taking this video game that seriously that you are prepared to cause others real harm then please go touch grass and above all seek help.
We've always known they were like this. It's the reason we got away from that discord and them.
That's what happens when you don't go to the police and make a report about assault or battery. The entire org needs to get investigated by fucking law enforcement. They're making plans to attack people physically as a group and applauding the others.
I agree. The whole "we don't control what they do" narrative is an excuse for lack of accountability and consequences. Yes, you cannot control what they do, but they can control what happens afterwards. weak leadership.
Imagine needing to take it further than the confines of a video game that allows the level of greifing of the star citizen PU. Great video.
The toxic people in those types of groups got swirleys and beat up in grade school, this is their way of feeling a bit of power when IRL they are powerless.
Couldnt have said it better myself
What they are doing is bullying, the same type of behaviour that you are for some reason assuming they are the victims of. Seems like a bit of wishful thinking, and also unreasonably generous towards them.
As B.D.E. said this is a fallacy. This is giving them an out when they are just shitty people. Sure some of them are like this but after over 30 years in PVP games I have seen these type of toxic people from the nerdy, geeky, outcast, popular, jock style gamers. It runs the gamut of the "type" of gamer... only thing that unites them is their shittyness.
@@B.D.E. most bullies are bullied, which is why they do it
@@TierDvik I know people from all circles they all get bullied the same jocks get beat up jocks got swirly it’s not just the geeks you’re the one who sat there and made the judgment call
Fantastic work Avenger One. The community owes you a great gratitude for your efforts. I really love this game and it has brought myself and my children some of the most amazing fun ever, and that is a very special thing for us. I will support you in every way I can. Thank you for your brilliant efforts!
THE ABSOLUTE FALL FROM GRACE, I remember when I began dogfighting in 3.9, Liberty Reapers was a place where I was able to join and increase my skills as a pilot. I remember watching Lykosar's videos, even getting to dogfight against him in those days of Arena Commander. I'm not only disgusted but ashamed that this is what their community has devolved into...
You believe everything AV1 says?
@@B0b-a.The conversations are pretty convincing.
So are the chat clips.
Unless you think it is all AI generated😂
Considering the evidence and recordings are right there? It isn't about believing A1.
@DarthBoba. No need. There's also plenty of video, photo, and audio evidence too. The real question is whether you believe that evidence or not. In this case AV is just the person collecting and delivering said evidence.
@@B0b-a. did YOU see the video? or wait.... your one of them... makes since
This is what happens when "PvP" becomes a fanatical creed. It becomes a way of life to have to destroy other people by any means possible.
It's no longer about playing a game and having somewhat immersive gameplay, especially in an MMO. It's about fighting the person behind the screen, on the other end of the line. Be it by preventing others from being able to play any gameplay at all, or be it by terrorizing them via other platforms or even in RL.
This is not a problem exclusive to SC, but precisely because SC has been advertised as a quasi-anarchist sandbox for years, people who just want to set everything around them on fire are particularly openly represented here.
It is also time for PvPers to take a clear position. For too long, people have protected griefers or played along with their semantic hair-splitting.
This is what comes out of it. A minority of psychopaths who find confirmation in what they do and then always go one step further.
If these people don't destroy the games they use as a platform for their personal wars, then in the long run they are destroying the people they see as their enemies in RL.
ngl i've had similar attempts to fuck with my life from anti pvp crowd in mmorpgs for casually rp wpvping in those games. i've seen similar unhinged and abusive language in game and on the subreddit and spectrum from anti pvp folks in this game. i've gotten harrassing comments on my dogfight videos on youtube from the anti pvp crowd. ive had anti pvp folks try to phish me for personal information, call me a rapist and a psychopath and other colourful rhetoric. all for the crime of *checks notes* pvping in a game that provides gameplay solutions to said pvp in an intentional fashion. in other games i've also seen the hardcore high pve crowd harass dox and swat competitors and attempt to suicide them. it's less a pvp vs pve thing it's a high end hardcore mindset thing heavily inspired by the out of game actions of goons over the past 25 years over a large swarth of online video games and social media platforms and forums.
@@Speaker4200
In pure coop games such as: Deep Rock Galactic for example, I don't see such behavior from the community. A PvEer who is not in competition with other players is unlikely to show toxic behavior towards others, or thinks up semantic contortions to justify it. The triggering factor for a competition that also attracts lunatics is simply PvP, that's part of the truth and I say that as a PvPer. In this sense, the hardcore PvEer in an MMO in which PvP is possible is also a PvPer, because as soon as you are in any form of competition with others(fight, trade, exploration, data run all mixed together), there is only PvP/coop PvP with other players. The question is how to do this. Some try to push the gameplay to the edge of immersion, while others try to prohibit exactly that. A few of these people then take it too far and attack the player instead of the in-game character. And this is where the shit show begin.
In-game, the question, especially in SC, should not be PvP or PvE, because in the finished vision of this game, this difference should be almost irrelevant, You will not do PvP or PvE, you will play a gameloop. Mostly against NPCs, and sometimes against players.
The question should be, immersive gameplay and immersive player behavior yes/no?
Immersion-breaking behavior is harmful to the game and community and should be handled accordingly by devs.
So much for the in-game topic.
Bringing in-game conflicts into reality as a personal vendetta, or simply as antisocial bullying, is a step further and should be handled accordingly harshly, also by the devs and, if necessary, by law enforcement.
there is tonnes of documented abuse and poor behaviour in deep rock there's literally been mulitle scandals of horror shows wtf are you on about. @@darthhatespeech5329
@@darthhatespeech5329 you d be wrong though and this isn’t deep rock either
@@Speaker4200
I know it's not DRG, that's the point. What is your point? What am I wrong about?
well done in staying calm in those conversations man. Must have been very frustrating listening to all those lies without getting audibly angry. I don't think I could have held my voice so low and calm.
When you know the truth coming in, it's alot easier.
Just when the LR leader was acting tough with his speech, you nailed the timing with that screenshot. I hate cheaters and trolls. CIG should ban them all.
Listening to that was something else
they arnt sorry at all, they are on embarrassed that this is in the lime light. REAP what you SOW REAPERS. serious question reapers? do you believe in karma now? its not that great to be viewed the way you truly act. This is a good thing and i hope each of you LEARN that others have issues too and problems. the shear arrogance of the Pancake spitter was astonishing. truly should be ashamed of yourself ESPECAILLY RASING KIDS! Dont train your kids up to incite the next kid to shoot up the place! FFS BE ADULTS
"This is to end in a good note" "Dont post this or we are gonna have problems"
"Is that a threat?"
"Na man, na its just a game!"
Classic
This video is absolute fire, Thank you Avenger One! I'm proud to know that people like Avenger One are fighting the good fight and highlighting poor behavior in our verse. There's a line in the sand and someone just crossed the wrong Squadron. Stay safe Avenger, much love to you and your family.
This is criminal... Thanks for all the effort of putting this together and bringing this to our attention. I have been gaming for over 20 years now and saw some serious stuff, but this is on another level. Kudos to the whistleblowers!
I love the logic that "it's in private" doesn't reflect on their character. So much of the justification for this was "well we did it in private," and "if you go into someone's house and see a poster, then someone takes a picture, it shouldn't matter because it's in private." No. If you're an douche in private, that is a reflection on who you are.
We at LBH find the actions of LR disgusting. The behavior that LR engaged in is absolutely deplorable. We may not always see eye to eye A1 and our orgs may not be the best of friends but we tip our flight helmets to you and Gabi. I hope CIG do something about LR before they can hurt more people IRL.
LBH-Rap-o
If they're willing to lie about planning to dox and petty assault from chronically online activity to this degree, imagine what could have escalated if they felt they got away with it. Their actions and words paint a guilty story, they didn't bother to even look at it to see if it would escalate into something worse, they went straight to defense even before they were accused of anything. Everything they said was taken out of context was never provided further screenshot context. They just had excuses, deflected the subjects, and were absolute cowards when confronted. They're not the masterminds they think they are. Those two have a lot of tells/red flags that they're casually dishonest people and care that you don't see them for what they did.
Listening to all of them talk during the interviews and during their recorded group voice call gave me some major fight or flight response. It goes to show that there are tell tale signs that we can learn from this and hopefully people can learn from this exposure of their playbook.
Man I really love this vid. The way you disassembled their lies with proof and the way you actually let them try to defend themself by stumbling on more lies, its truly an art. You behaved calm and mature, and also maintained respectable demeanor towards them even though throughout the conversation you knew they were lying. It is honestly amazing, you have my respect. Keep it up!
If it would actually hold up as proof in court, thats where A1 would have gone. This video is a mishmash of unrelated events and chats put in a progression to seem connected, with a somber soundtrack in the background. I work in the actual film industry, this is not a documentary, this is a shitpiece.
@@IdleWorker "I work in the actual film industry" 🤣🤣🤣
This level of harassment needs to be punished severely.. not gonna lie… it’s pretty disgusting.
Please keep making videos like these.
Your efforts on your platform will have a much greater affect in improving the community of Star Citizen than these evil people trying to corrode it.
I Remember when Azure was a young lad wearing a helmet and posting flight videos. His innocence is lost, and his name is mud.
I LOVED his videos too :(
@@larrymitchell6470 To see him go down this path, is disappointing to say the least. I looked up to him in my early days as a pilot. He was warm, welcoming and invited me to train with him.
I don't even want to play SC at this point. If this is the level that people stoop too in a video game, fk that game. I'm moving on.
Hundreds lost in support, no fucks given. The underbelly of this community is pure trash, and this series proves it.
This is not something CIG can solve, bad actors gunnah act bad. Fuck the internet cultists who breed and form this crap.
Brain rot on all levels.
Wow the evidence is overwhelming. LR is a disgrace. They sound pathetic trying to justify any of this. I hope CIG takes the proper action to prevent toxicity like this.
CIG should ban the idiots and then donate the amount equal to their ships to a charity to prevent online bullying. THAT would be a message.
It feels good to realize there are good people around here to stand up against... angry people with so little empathy and, a spine. Thank you for this wind of Hope. I wish it will lead the way for a brighter futur in and out of the SC community.
As an outsider who will be coming to the Star Citizen community soon, I find videos such as this very informative. Yet, very alarming. Thanks for the work you do A1.
As alarming as this is, LR represents an exceptionally small subset of the SC community. This video to out them is outing them as the exception, not the rule, because they are breaking the rule, so to speak, and people are tired of them doing this.
@@discodan3367 definitely understandable . While I’ve seen some toxic things in communities before, this here is on another level. I can’t wait to play amongst the good folks of the community tho.
I have never experienced this sort of thing. I am sure if you look hard enough you can find stuff like this is any multiplayer game but it is not common.
I've been with Starcitizen for 10 years, didn't know shit like this goes on, my org we don't play these fking games, we're mostly older though, and boring in this regard, but love the game. It isn't like this, trust me.
The thing that makes everything so shocking to me is the fact that these are all adults who very likely have some sort of real life social interactions, a job and probably a family. This isn't a skirmish between a group of middleschool kids that pvp in fortnite after school. These are "adults".
I have no words. WTF is wrong with people? This is beyond toxic...this is straight up evil. I mostly play solo, so I've had no idea any of this even existed at least not at this level. I am mortified. The community is lucky to have you A1 - I respect and thank the hell out of you for putting this together.
“It’s just a meme bro”
30 seconds later
“Yeah if you trash talk us we’re going to go after you…”
"It's just a meme..." What does that even mean?
Thank you A1 for exposing these douchebags.
this was a really well done video, appreciate the effort that went into it
No surprise here. They've always been like this just people refused to see it. Sorry this happened and i know we've had our differences avenger but good job here.
Wow how far they fell, I remember when they had integrity... I would have bet money against them cheating... I'm shocked and appalled.. spitting on people, macros, damn... Great video 10/10
The thing is, they never did. They just had people fooled.
@@acidrom Unless the leadership changed... more then likely this is the right answer.
Hey Avenger_One. I really appreciate you taking the time to put a video like this together. I'm a father of two young boys i.e. gamers and at times find it difficult to allow them to game in a public forum. I hear the most hateful speech coming through those speakers and ask them to just shut it down and try again another night. I'm going to watch this video again with them this weekend and get their feedback. Those young men you interviewed have no moral compass and hold no value. As a parent, those are the people I want to keep my kids away from!!! They lied and defended shitty behavior even when you called them out on it. LR breads toxicity, and the way it sounded, it started at the TOP. I hope they are smart enough to learn from this however something inside me tells me they will not change. I really can't imagine what Gabi went through with Shock. My heart goes out to her and Shock's real family! Keep up the great work, I love your videos and see you in the verse!
Thank you brother 🙏
These are adult men too. Where is their sense or honor, and pride? It truly is scary to have no compulsion to stand up and own your actions in the face of real evidence, nor the inclination to say - we will clean this up. Their fathers and father's fathers are ashamed to be sure.
On the other hand,, I am really happy about the global chat in SC. Aside from the occassional outburst over the bugs, it is very friendly and helpful. I am glad you have a place to enjoy gaming with your children. It's on all of us to keep it this way.
@@mikerentiers the first part of your message reminds me a lot of this old quote " “...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” ― Michael Caine "
Honestly sitting here with tears in my eyes. This was shocking and horrendous. Thank you A1 for standing up for people and taking steps that so many others are understandably too scared to take. I know you can look after yourself but still, stay safe man. And as others have said, thank you to those on the inside who were brave and stepped forward. I'm starting an org and it's really giving me things to think about, in order to keep my members, myself and the wider SC community safe. I still say for the most part we have one of the best communities in gaming, so we need to be vigilant and strong to prevent these kinds of people creeping in and destroying what we all love.
The call witn the two people was so infuriating to listen too. 0 accountability for literally anything that happens with people who represent them. "How can we control what they do" meanwhile they have whole ass campaign meetings with 15+ members.
"That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it."
The Narcissist's Creed.
@@aaronjukes2223
On point.
Yeah it's nice to see how MANLY they are, they talk about that kind of stuff so casually, but when they get confronted, this is how the rats act.
Bunch - of - rats. Nothing more.
This is the kind of shit I left EVE Online for. 2 decades ago.
This is illegal in many countries and jurisdictions then, let alone now. CIG, no matter where or what they do, are on the hook if they dont do something, *on top of* everything else, like the aforementioned "battery" crime. That would be considered targeted assault where I am, a major crime (or felony).
Oh yeah, doxxing? Yeah, definitely a major crime across most of the world.
EDIT: Looked it up, in several of where CIG operates offices, the actions taken in the real world as well as the conspiracy to commit *actual fucking crimes* for a *videogame* are all criminal actions, with legitimate jail times involved. CIG is on the hook for this legally if they dont dispense actual law down on this. If CIG does not act, then they set the tone for the rest of the game.
Exactly this
CIG doesn't dispense the law, what are you talking about? They're not part of the justice system, this needs to go through proper channels, i.e. law enforcement.
@@Derzull2468 they have to act to save their own ass from the law, not be the law is my point. My english is not the best im sorry.
@@kazzsaru CIG is not liable for the actions of an individual completely outside of the game. There's also nothing they could do to prevent some jackass from spitting on somebody at CitizenCon. How could they be responsible?
I'd assume they would have to proceed with proper reporting through the proper channels rather than just acting off the back of a UA-cam vid.
Oh Boy, here we go for round two...
First of all, I'm sorry about the loss. We've lost a fellow player, possibly also because of this very group, which only underlines the need to stop those people...
It's incredible to me, that this is happening in a game I love, in a community I mostly see as one of the most welcoming and friendly in gaming. And probably, most people are nice, it's just these bad examples that can ruin the reputation for all others.
And, wow, what a very bad example we have right here. Stream sniping, harming other communitys, doxxing, even attacking people irl, and the list goes on, that's simply just not acceptable in any way. And them trying to talk themselves out of it, not taking responsibility for their actions and the actions of their members, even supporting the hate makes this all the more infuriating. Stopping them is probably not easy, they will persist, dwelling in their cave, only to come out when the time is right. We just have to show that the SC-community as a whole is better than this, we will not tolerate this.
Again, thank you and all the people helping for uncovering all of it! And I'm sorry for everyone that was affected by them and had to endure this group and their actions.
Treat everybody like you yourself would want to be treated.
O7
Jesus ok these ppl need hardware bans >.>
you can just buy another pc and get a different modem. hardware bans dont work
@@TravisSvedbergyea but you're costing these guys money hardware banning them.
@@yeawhateverdudesure u think those guys are worried about money??
Hell I got 10 cards laying around.
Absolutely crazy and infuriating to hear how they would try to rationalize themselves, and try to justify targeting individuals. Just sub-human behavior in a echo-chamber. For those who haven't interacted with Gabi, she genuinely cares about all members in her community and puts a lot of effort into making a place for people to feel safe, listened to, and enjoy themselves.
I never had the opportunity to fly with Shock, but reading his words and knowing the impact hes had on the community shows a lot to the person he was. Remember all, never feel like a bother reaching out if you need. You're voices and opinions always matter. Much love, respect, and support to anyone who's had to tolerate and been dealing with LR or any form of harassment in/outside of the community.
o7
thank you so much Rayzor, means a lot 😭♥
Imagine sitting here watching this video as someone who managed both their private LR and academy discord server for 2 years , knowing who these people are on a familiar basis and then hearing them trying to justify everything.
Agree, just human behavior in an echo-chamber.
"You can't insult someone if you put it on a funny picture and it is a meme." My god, those people...
I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt, sometime you have a guild or an org with 1 or 2 toxic members and it can be hard to educate or remove them, but damn, hearing them say over and over "it's just a meme bro", "we don't police our members bro", "it's not my problem bro", those people are dangerous!! And I bet it's not the only Org with similar mentalities... Edit: they don't even respect their own Org rules...
bingo
Just wanted to wish you all the best of luck going forward. I was just about to go to sleep when this video was posted and I was in the LR discord, people saying how they are leaving the server after all the things being exposed here. I thought it was a joke at first, but then again I was about to go to bed. Woke up this morning, the LR general chat flooded with angry people saying they are leaving, I had to see what this was about. Some of the people in the discord trying to counter the video werent really arguing against the things shown, it was more like a personal attack against avenger one. Not even trying to deny the things shown here, just trying to justify it by accusing avenger one of random bullshit. Talking for the millionth time about that one video where you combat logged, stuff like that. Right after watching this video in its entirety I can recall at least TWO times where the LR leaders in the voice chat threatened you. One of them was along the lines of "If you never accused us of cheating you wouldnt even know we exist", implying that the cheating allegations somehow warranted the doxing and harassment. And the second time the guy saying something like "If you dont want problems with us just leave us alone" or something. Absolutely disgusting. Im at a point where I no longer take anyone seriously who trash talks avenger one, or attempts to debunk this video and the first one about the cheating rings. Because as far as im aware, avenger one doesnt have voice chat meetings with his members discussing plans to target and harass people using their mental health to try and get them to quit or kill themselves. Avenger one doesnt form an army of alts to target and harass people. Disgusting. But anyway, i wish the best of luck to you and your members. Thanks for sharing this video.
Doxxing and swatting are synonymous. With knowledge of someones adress they can easly be swatted. No sympithy for anyone with this behavior.
Hello,
I just wanted to let you know that I have made parts of your video available on my channel for the German-speaking community. Of course, I have also expressed my thoughts on this.
There are some Germans who don't understand English very well and I wanted to explain the context to them. In any case, there was a lot of encouragement in my comments section and very unanimous talk about how reprehensible the content is.
I wanted to let you know that the events are being viewed with outrage by the wider community across all countries.
"We have to stick together" is also the title of my video.
Your calm manner and work is valuable for the community. Thank you.
The only way for evil to happen is when good men do nothing. Kudos A1 + Whistle Blowers for standing up and doing something. I am so saddened the person did not get the help needed, and many of society's 2-4 letter groups are filled with those types of people being led by someone often with ulterior motives. That motive is often to sow chaos, and we can see it in society today. I am saddened Gabi got caught in that circle, and this is why professionals need to get involved in psychological cases. There are always ways to help people, and there are groups all across the world who deal with these things daily. It is harder on the internet to help someone, for text messages can be taken out of context. Language barriers exist, and when you see someone crying for help it is not easily done with chat. Anyone struggling with psychological issues should see a professional.
Man I'm getting EVE flashbacks here. I have unfortunately interacted with these types more than I want in gaming.
Good work AV1, has to be such a mental drain to put this together. Glad you are bringing this behavior to light before the game officially releases.
Hope all is well! RIP Shock.
Id argue that even EvE wasn't this bad even after the whoe mittani bullying at evevegas. Most of the meta game and propaganda that flew around on reddit was for in game wars, none of it was legit personal (i say as a former WIDOT Pilot) id go to meetups and we'd trash talk about 'oh you're goonswarm gross' but this, this is like, taking a few admittedly tasteless acts in eve's history and multiplying it by 1000
@@TheRealChappieguess you weren’t around when goons were doxxing Lady Scarlet. They exposed her address, her job, found photos of her, posted them, then made fun of her, body shaming her is their videos. Don’t even get me started on what Mittens personal directed at Talon Scorpio. None of this SC toxicity is a surprise. Sad anyway.
It's funny how they spew out a stream of arguments, but if you ask them a single simple question in return, suddenly they are unable to understand simple language. xD
All their backpedaling says a lot.
As terrible as this is it's not even the tip of the iceberg when it comes to videogame toxicity. If the devs do not actively work against this behavior and diligently close gameplay loops they abuse it will only get worse.
If Devs do nothing about toxic players then they are just as guilty and IMO are to be blamed just as harshly as the online morons. I truly hope CIG stops the EVE Online shitbags before they expand here.
SC community got a taste of what day to day life in the game Rust is like.
If base building ends up materializing the way that it was presented during Citizencon Con, SC will go through a period where it is essentially Space Rust.
I can’t believe these are adults. That Hybaa dude is literally the most pathetic. “You gonna come in my house and take pics of my nazi flags?! Wtf bro that’s private!” Yeah it doesn’t work like that
It actually does. Find a different analogy
@@user-iu6sd8su3esorry dude but if you’re a nazi, you’re a nazi. It’s that simple.
I'd expect this sort of crap from an org in Call of Duty, but in SC... wow. This sort of planned, engineered harassment of individuals is criminal. How messed up do you need to be to think this is ok for a GAME!
SC has the friendliest, most accepting community I've seen in online gaming since the late 90s. Just last night I spent 3 hours just talking with strangers in my server and doing coordinated rescues and recoveries of vehicles to prevent lost cargo. 2 days earlier a complete stranger gifted me a golden ticket so I could finally buy myself an F8c. For those new to SC, please understand this sort of heinous toxicity is not the norm.
Come join us in creating the gold standard of gaming communities.
If anyone is old enough to remember The Sims Online, that had a massive toxic underground community. No matter how you tried to stay above it, the underworld ruled the aboveworld basically. No player was free from the tendrils of the toxic underground community. It is still my belief the community destroyed the game, because EA would not deal with this toxic underground community.
If CIG will not deal with this and insists on letting the community police itself, we are heading in the same direction. No sandbox game has ever survived an unpoliced toxic community.
53:51 - "We're not policing our people" . Then how do you hold anybody accountable for anything?
LR is making themselves look horrible.
Even if CIG aren't private detectives and they shoudnt... once this kind of people are proven to be so toxic and are using their game, they should get instantly perma banned. Alts included. This kind of behaviour shoudnt be tolerated, there´s no pretext to be such an a**hole. I can't understand how someone can be so sick and lack of empathy.
Wow, these guys have lost touch with reality and CIG need to straight out ban them. This level of toxicity should not be tolerated. I wanna send my love to gabz ❤️
❤
Yea so assault. She needs to file a police report. If people like this this their immune to real life consequences, it will only embolden them
when i was a kid we where playing Battlefield 2142, and i had a friend who was year younger than me. We would play battlefield ALOT, he was one constant during my thous days, one weekend we played till like 2 in the morning, and we talked about how we should keep going tomorrow ! we had a bunch of good games and good mood ! next day i ring him up so we could play, its his brother who answers the phone, and tells me that my friend had killed himself. It was surreal, it was my first actual factual time i faced death. i still have him as a friend in discord just to remember him. remember punching a bully in the mouth because he talked shit about him after. wierd to write this down, but still out in world out of me. i hope you all get over this. Star citizen is such a cool game !
My lord, the game isn't even fully released yet and look at all the drama there is. Imagine after full release.
Yep, its when all the clowns who said it was a scam comes crawling out of their basements & tries to ruin it with their cheats because they can't play the game.
That's when it really gets bad.
I expect we could reach EVE level dramas depending on what CIG allows us to do.
Yeah I am about 30 minutes in and this is really screwed up. The real life spitting and the purposely targeting people who are vulnerable IRL is too much.
This reaches some of the worst seen in other games.
This sort of drama comes from people, not a video game. A person doesn't magically become a scumbag because of a video game.
@@kensmith2829 absolutely. It's not the games fault. It's the people. That being said, some games seem to bring out behaviors like this. I personally think it depends on the amount of freedom and the in game risks. Look at EVE. A world that for the most part is fairly lawless. It's a game where destroying your enemies from the inside, setting up psyops and infiltrating corps, and even planning in game assassinations that take nearly a year to stage, is a way to handle business. It's so common it is almost normal.
Yet, it is not EVEs fault, it's the people who play in it. Just like if CIG gives similar freedoms, risks, and rewards, we will see the same thing happen, but not the game's fault.
That being said even in Eve online there are certain lines where if you cross, it is too far. An event from years ago with a prominent EVE community member joking about making another player end it, comes to mind.
I guess it is up to us to set that do not cross line. We the community control that.
That's not toxic behavior, it's antissocial behavior 100%.
It's like the game is just an excuse for them to be evil. Those people should be banned from star citizen with no refunds. They are a parasite that will hurt our game's future.
Now I'm going to be that guy for a moment. I don't agree with everything you do Avenger. Hell in some circles we even poke some fun (even though I'm average at best as a pilot and fly circles around them). But this is one thing that I'll be 100% behind you on. Good job on bringing this to light, and I hope that everything can be solved in some way that doesn't affect those undeserving.
I just got into SC and had no idea that this was a thing. I saw you in different channel and wanted to check out your sick piloting skills and saw this as your latest video. It saddens me that people can be so derogatory and disgusting. The misogyny of these miserable cretins is absolutely sickening. I am glad you are shining a light on these terrible people.
"No that poster in my house of the Nazi swastika is just a meme bro"
This is absolutely digusting to say the least. Great fucking job. I absolutely appriciate what u did and what this video rappresent for the community
I know there are a few not crap people in LR, but CIG needs to forfibly disband them and ban the people activly coordonating doxing and trying to "break" people.
Same with Griefernet and a few other orgs like this.
They destroying SC if they can just keep goin.
Trash talk is one ting. Doxing and going after people is criminal behaviour. CIG should just perma band them. Even giving the doxers info to the victim so they can take legal action. Its a good that there are people whit a conscience to share this crap and call out AHoles.
So CIG, the ball is in your court.
Gabi is a really sweet person. I’m proud to be in her Org. She didn’t deserve this.
TLDW; Terminally adolescent people who have no semblance of a meaningful life outside of playing a video game for unhealthy amounts of time struggle with the moral, legal, and social implications of reconciling their online and IRL behavior.
Av one been watching you for awhile now and taking your flight combat vids to get better . I have known of this kind of thing from another life time ago... EVE online the infamous Fanfest Alliance Leader Panel 2012 I had hope back then that this would have a light shed on it to get more eyes on it to help to curb this, this is not the kind of behavior we want . Thank you for this and your compassion and shedding light on this matter.
Cheaters suck and should be permanently banned and loose all their Star Citizen assets.
Jeezus this generation of PEOPLE* are screwed... You seem like a good guy, A1. Having not only been doxxed but to have to talk to these folk, investigate, and live in this conflict -- And then edit it all together... I worry for you, too man. I hope this puts a bow on it for you. Keep making better pilots! 👏
The 'its a prank/meme' defense is so old & tired. Its the last defense of those called out for despicable behavior. One would hope its a mentally that u grow out of by ten years old. That fact that grown men justify spitting on someone cuz they 'looked away & ignored' them is both sad & maddening. CIG and the sc community need to make these folks the shunned pariahs they deserve to be.
Kind of wish I hadent watched. I was kind of naive to the toxicity in Star Citizen and already wary of Orgs in general for being toxic. Makes me want to avoid orgs at all costs.
Organizations like DTOXs IMI or Hydrosas Atlas Defense are good places to go to that are warm and welcoming 🙏 don't give up, just avoid the bad ones
Permanent bans. No temporary ones.
Thanks, Avenger1 for bringing this activity to light.
Not that this will make much difference, if any, in the grand scheme of things. However:
Several of the admins of the Bar Citizen Coordinators discord and the Bar Citizen Regional Events discord servers agreed - and, ButteryPancakes was banned from the server in which he was a member.
We do not feel that spitting on anyone should ever be tolerated at a Bar Citizen event. Our group has no desire to control any BC groups and don't take banning any member lightly.
Speaking PERSONALLY, some conduct is just intolerable and I hope that other Bar Citizen coordinators will agree, regardless of their location, and will ban him from any Bar Citizen server in which he might be a member.
Scrapped - Austin Bar Citizens and one of the five that coordinated the CitCon Bar Citizen meetup/giveaways on Fri/Sat nights.
Thanks again for exposing the toxic behavior so others can be aware.
It's kind of shocking to see people take this half-baked game so seriously with malice. Why would anyone be afraid of anyone in SC? There's literally no consequences to losing except for wounded pride. It's actually quite disturbing and a tell that some of these individuals have serious issues in their lives that need to be resolved. Healthy, well-balanced individuals do not behave this way, especially towards, as I said before, a half baked game where the bugs are as or more likely to kill you than another player.
In a way, it's good to see this come out early in SC. It will give CIG time to decide how they're going to enforce their TOS. How they handle these issues will likely determine whether I choose to continue to support the project. This type of behavior is unacceptable and I do not want to be part of a gaming community where the developer does not enforce their TOS.
Same, if it isn't addressed, at least the worst of it, I'll be out
Thank you for putting this together and exposing it to the community so we can act. This behaviour is inexcusable, and has no place in the world, much less Star Citizen.
The saddest part is that these people don’t gain literally anything by doing this. There is nothing in the game that will change due to these actions.
its time to get rid of these incells before the game launch
LR members involved in this should search for some professional help