We can’t see every end, most likely everyone would agree with what your comment including me,I think the show in its entirety is a masterpiece and should be more popular. Same thing goes for musicians and the like too. But Hollywood and the devil are in the details somewhere between all the drugs and pedophilia. It’s no surprise to me that true talent and entertainment gets buried beneath all the greed and immorality behind the scenes. But the entertainment industry is, was and always will be a dirty cut throat business.
The only person I can even think to be as good in Flints role as Toby Stephens might be Russel Crowe... But Toby Stephens is so good there is really nobody that could`ve played Flint apart from Stephens
@@1999deshan Im so glad it was underrated while shootings ongoing. So the story ve been told very well without any pressure of audience expectations. Because pirate era has material enough for 20 seasons, and there is this GOT example.
This. I understand where the criticism for the ending comes from in this video, but i really liked it. It is one of those very few and far between moments where homosexual romance is involved that actually feel touching and genuine and not forced for ...reasons...
@@rofl0rblades yeah I liked the ending, but I disagree with questioning why flint is still alive. he isn't. flint was a creation of james mcgraw. a creation that no longer exists once he steps away from the sea. flint is very very dead. it is james mcgraw who survives. he talks very explicitly about shedding the pirate life in both season 1 and 2, and he does just that. and in regards to the issue of slavery, it is highly questionable, but that plantation is likely far preferable to thomas having spent all that time in a sanitarium. and there is only one shot of them there, who's to say they don't escape?
I think it's because they ended by their own choice, versus going too long and eventually getting cancelled. I find shows that end on their own have the best endings. :)
It´s outrageous that this video isn´t more widespread. No clickbait, no flamboyance, no pretense, straight to the point, full of well-selected information and meaningful. Keep on the good work and I´m sure it´ll pay off!
I just finished this show after watching the first season when it aired years ago. I got about 5 episodes in and somewhat forgot about it. After shows like GOT, Vikings and some of my other favs started making writing decisions I didn’t like, I found myself re starting this show, about a month ago. I watched every single episode in that month. This show blew me away with how amazing the writing, acting, filming and pretty much everything about it. It’s a show I truly hopes will form a somewhat cult following in years to come. To everyone reading this, keep spreading the word about black sails even though it’s long over. People need to watch this show.
One of the writers states that the last image of Madi and Silver, with them at that distant was to display the closest that those two will ever become, stating that madi did not believe silver. Silver did not seek the treasure in understanding it would empower people to continue the fight. At the end, Silver is an outcast such as how he was when the show started. Alone. Also great video!
One of the best shows of the 21st century. An intentionally fictional narrative which blends historical figures and classical fictional characters into a wild fantasy of action has no obligation or intent to give a morsel of acknowledgment of historical truths. As a legit historian, I just find it petty when folks insist on judging intentionally, honestly non-historical period shows based on real history. That is so exhausting and unnecessary. Might as well just Game of Thrones for not following European history correctly, it's nonsensical.
I absolutely loved how they mixed literature fiction with actual history (I'm a bit of a pirate nerd), giving it a good back story to the origin of Captain Flint and "Long John" Silver. A very good analysis of the show! well done
I found the ending with Flint going to the plantation to be heaven. Everything was pale, Thomas was wearing white, and he even had to walk through gates. I think he died at the end without being obvious about it.
I’m in the camp that James McGraw died on the island. But the ending worked both ways for me. Flint (the persona) died either way, which was the whole point of his character’s journey.
I personally prefer the Silver kills Flint ending then fabricates the story to make Maddie forgive him. Fits his character in Treasure Island more. Also they didn’t officially retcon anything. The writers themselves discussed this. They’re reasoning for things not lining up had more to do with the underlining implications of the story. A series about how narratives shape society and the power that comes with them. In Black Sails, and Treasure Island both stories have characters spinning narratives. Like look at Billy’s arc of inventing the narrative of John Silver. Then pair that with everything he said in Treasure Island. It begins to paint him as something of a master fabricator. Honestly, the only things we can say happened for sure are the events within A: The story of Treasure Island, and B: Black Sails. Everything else. How the map was made, how flint actually died. (Even If Flint died in the forest, they told everyone he went to savannah so of course the narrative stems there) Also on a side note about the pick your own ending: I don’t see it as a cop out. I actually think it’s much better. One of the reasons generally prequels suck is because there’s no ambiguity left. Nothing left to theorize or talk about. Only what happened. And if what happened sucks, then your equally fucked. Even if it’s awesome, your still kinda fucked. Red Dead Redemption 2 also had this level of ambiguity surrounding Dutch. At the end of the game, even though it ties directly into Red Dead 1, you don’t know why Dutch went insane and it’s left up to you to speculate. It keeps you in the story after it’s ended. The writer implies the reader infers. The pick your own ending of Black Sails is essentially the same thing. Like I’m rereading Treasure Island with the idea that what went down in Black Sails is exactly what happened and it completely redefines some of these characters in a really intriguing light. Maybe it’s an unpopular opinion, but that’s why I love the Black Sails ending and actually think it’s one of the better endings I’ve seen a TV show receive.
But on a separate note great video!! I really appreciate you making this because it’s given me a chance to talk about what’s honestly been my favorite show of the last few years that no one talks about
I know they didn't retcon anything. Another reviewer pointed it out so hence the disclaimer in the description. Also that's fine if you like ambiguity. I personally loathe it that's why I begged people not to let my opinions influence their own. So enjoy the book.
Movie Monarch sorry I hope I didn’t seem like I was trying to discredit your opinion or anything. I just really loved the story and everything it got at. It’s not a story I get to talk about very often cause of how criminally underrated it is
I read the ending a bit differently. To me, it’s not necessarily pick your own ending, but a focus on the power of story, which all the main characters, especially Flint, had used to their advantage, no matter the ending, we know that this is all a temporary win for the pirates and the Jamaicans. So while I can see someone not like one of the endings, I don’t think the choice is necessarily important.
"So while I can see someone not like one of the endings, I don’t think the choice is necessarily important." Yet you made one. To focus on the power of the story. I would argue that's your bliss with the ending. It gives you comfort. And there's nothing wrong with that. True, yours is not one I presented in my analysis but it is an ending an audience member can pick given the context of the overall narrative. So...yeah. It matters.
Movie Monarch I meant with the, which ending is real, an explicitly told one that wraps up all nice and neat or the more morbid one that is what people believe based on the final scene between Silver and Flint. I think looking at the power of that story is more important as it, no matter what, gives a bitter sweet ending for our characters who have a semblance of hope, but the audience already knows that story goes sour for them later on. Just as the story Flint convinces those on the Walrus to dream big and for hope because of the Urga De Lima, Silver’s story weaved a story for Madi, and by extension, the audience to dream and hope for something better, there’s still that feeling that thing isn’t quite as it seems. A kernel of mistrust, that causes doubt. Is there issues with those two scenarios? Absolutely, but I think the writers wanted to circle back around to the first episode and focus on the theme throughout the show, the power of a good story. At the end of the day, we don’t know which, of either of those scenarios are true, but it both scenarios are a means to an end for a very temporary happiness, which seems to be the objective for most of the characters. And I hope you don’t see this as me trying to shit on your opinion by any means. I very much enjoyed the video as a whole.
@@zacharybryant9881 I know you're not trying to shit on my opinion and I appreciate that. Just like I know you meant your stance to be confined between the two absolutes I presented. However, I have strong opinions loosely held. I concede that your stance is a valid option for the endings interpretation. You chose it. It is a choice. That is the power of storytelling. "The stories we want to believe survive." Jack said it himself. You are choosing to believe this about the writers intent and it's supported by the material. But it's still unconfirmed by the writers. That's what makes it your opinion. And I get it. I respect the hell out of it. But I don't agree with it. I'm sorry. I really wish I did (because I think I would be a much happier person) but I don't. Agree to disagree.
I believe it’s a bit of both. You can pick whatever ending if you want. But your right it really doesn’t matter what the ending is. Because the story is effective in it of its own.
I agree with you. I don't think it's important to determine which of the two endings is the right one. The beauty of the ending is in the power of story telling, which was also a theme appearing throughout the whole series.
When silver confronted flint he said he understands why flint fought the war. When he thought he had lost Madi he just wanted to see the world burn. In other words flint doesn't care about the cause he just wants revenge. That's why he goes to the plantation at the end he no longer needs revenge. Jack rackham is recorded in history as a coward and vane is a sadistic bastard. But who wrote these accounts? Like the young woman in Boston said "it's more interesting that way". Eleanor's grandmother explains how they use the pirates to extort money in Boston harbour. I think that what Jack is saying at the end is that what we know about pirates is what the British government wants us to believe. There be monsters.
I just remembered how much I liked this series so decided to search for an analysis, I was happy to find someone made one an hour ago. Great work, couldn't agree with you more on the ending.
The reason the reintroduction of the pardons by Rogers works so well is that he directly confronts flint, trying to speak to his former self who was seeking the same outcome. When Flint rejects the pardons it's clear he almost entirely cut himself loose from the person he was at that time.
True, which is why I hate how the fandom treats Eleanor. Like...she really was Flint's equal. In creating that scenario, Eleanor's the one who forced Flint to talk to Rogers and you can tell she was hoping Roger's would make Flint see reason. Of course, she had no idea what Flint lost in Peter Ashe and Miranda because if she had I think Eleanor would have insisted in joining them at the table. As it is: that scene was beautiful. Loved the civilized coming together, opposite sides of the table, and declaring absolute war on one another. Probably one of my top 10 favorite moments in television. Pure perfection.
@@moviemonarch1617 I'm no ton season 4 yet, but as of season 3 I think considering them to be one and the same is a bit of a disservice to Flint. Flint was just a far FAR more self-aware person about how own nature, his motivations, and his flaws. He was so much more self-aware and he had the help of someone who was able to, and willing to, understand him and restrain him but also walk with him. Eleonore didn't really have that in the same way (at least, not as of season 3), But yeah Eleonore doesn't really deserve all the hate. She's kind of an idiot at times, but she is a great character
I always saw the ending as Silver having sent along a bribe to free Thomas. He left him there till he sent Flint to collect him as it kept him where he knew he would be and thus able to use him to draw away Flint from interfering in any of his plans. Fantastic analysis of a criminally underrated show :)
My favorite show of all time. Inspired me to study and work on some projects in the era. Idk if you're still around but I could listen to you analyze the show all day lol
So I got my father to watch this show after he started to take an interest in 18th century naval warfare and he absolutely loved it. I've seen it far too many times myself. We exchanged our theories after he had finished it and I told him about the "Silver might have killed Flint on skeleton island" theory but he struck me with a theory I never heard or seen. Flint, Silver, Billy and all the fictional characters from treasure island never existed in the first place but are rather Pirate "legends". John Silver was made into a legend, so was flint and the whole "legend" theme becomes very popular in the last two seasons. The woman in Boston further reinforces the whole legend theme as she seems only interested in Rackham and Vane (two pirates that existed historically) but only mentions Flint once as she asked if he had really stolen the treasure from him (which can be interpreted that Flint never found the treasure at all, Rackham did which could very well be the case) But that's just a theory... A pirate theory!
I was completely captivated by this show, and I think it is as good, qualitatively speaking, as an show I've ever watched. The writing, the acting, the production were all top notch and I can hardly remember an episode that ever disappointed me, including the finale. Black Sail left me wanting so much more than the 5 seasons it offered and I'm hoping the producers can follow this with another series with the same level of quality....perhaps a western....about some a particular gang of train robbers?
I’d like to see Louis Lamour’s Walking Drum novel made into a series. To bring to life Moorish southern Spain, Constantinople, and the middle east of that era. Then the second book / sequel that Lamour never got to write (he died not long after Walking Drum) - where the main character goes to the very rich and powerful land of Hind (India). If someone could do Paulo Coelho’s The Alchemist, that would be cool too. And while I’m at it, Christoper Healy’s Series of books “A Hero’s Guide To Saving Your Kingdom”.
Great video! As i believe that the final message about the truth of stories goes along with whom which tells them, I think it's clear that Flint is dead. That last question from Madi to Silver gives out the hint..but story, true or not, another hidden theme of this saga is forgiveness between people, and that's Madis last action in the show (it would rather seems that way). Thanks for making this video, there's not much of this kind going around!
Personally, I love the ending. But I completely understand why people don’t like it, and that’s perfectly fine. I love that it gives us a choice while also making us question weather or not the ending we think happened was what actually happened. Art is interpretative and it should always be that way.
My headcanon for "Black Sails - Treasure Island" connection is that "Flint is alive" is the canon ending. He lived in captivity with his lover, but eventually Thomas died, which made McGraw switch back to his Flint persona. Unfortunately, time has taken toll on him and he wasn't able to get the treasure by himself. He draw the map, but died before he could get a ship and a crew. If they'll ever make Black Sails version of Treasure Island, I suspect it will be Flint himself who will replace Billy Bones in the opening chapter. He didn't really have anyone loyal to him in the end of the show, so I don't see him giving the map to anyone.
Very well done on this. I loved the show, even before I started looking at it from a more analytical point of view. Thank you for making a well thought out analysis that was informative and, yes, quite entertaining.
i actually really really loved the ending! i think that its SO cathartic for all these characters to have a happy ending after everything they've gone through!!! and i think calling flint a "mass murderer" is a bit of an over-simplification of his actions. flint in particular, i loved his ending. one of his main themes was him wanting to "return" this persona of captain flint to the sea (the scene b/w him and miranda where he tells her the story of his pirate name at peter ashe's house is one of my favorites in the whole series), and that's exactly the ending he gets. and to push my love of this ending even further, one of his largest weaknesses to overcome in the series is his shame; his ending has him confront this feeling SO wonderfully. i think they portray his absolute relief and happiness to see thomas again perfectly. like can you imagine being so openly and traumatically shamed by the world and then having to believe that your love for a person was what got them killed and destroyed y'all's lives for almost a decade? i honestly have never been so fulfilled by the ending of something in my life!!!!!
I'm happy you loved the ending, but I'm probably not the best person you want to engage with in this conversation. However there is one point I really can't overlook and that's your assertion that, "one of [Flint's] largest weaknesses to overcome in the series is his shame." I don't agree with this at all. The definition of shame is, "a painful feeling of humiliation or distress caused by the consciousness of wrong or foolish behavior." What Flint felt with Thomas was never shame. Well maybe at first but Thomas convinced him quickly to cast it aside and they were happy. So when you write, "being so openly and traumatically shamed by the world and then having to believe that your love for a person was what got them killed and destroyed" I have to ask what your evidence is for this? Because for my arguments I'm going to defer you to season 2 episode 5. Flint's relationship with Thomas was the excuse NEVER the cause for Thomas' fate/supposed death. The only thing Flint felt ashamed of was not doing something to save Thomas when he had the chance. That he listened to Miranda when she begged him to leave England at the cost of abandoning Thomas. That is it. And I believe him because if you listen to the writers end blurb interviews, they state Flint's homosexual acts with Thomas were used as a political weapon against Thomas. It was an ad hominem. An easy way for the men of Whitehall to stop Thomas' proposal for Nassau and that's what really pisses Flint off because he knows it. If Parliament had truly believed that what Thomas and Flint were doing was morally wrong, Flint could understand--not forgive!!--but he could wrap his head around it. The notion that these narrow minded assholes thought what they were doing was right. But the men of Parliament didn't. They didn't care what a man did in his own bed, they cared that Thomas' political agenda towards the pirates was radical and gaining traction. Otherwise they would have broadcasted it. But if you pay attention to season one Mr. Guthrie believes Flint fled from England because Thomas' wife was having an affair with Flint. Not Flint being in love with Thomas. Their relationship wasn't exposed outside of Parliament at all. Probably because Thomas' father wanted it kept a secret for the sake of propriety but if Whitehall truly cared....why keep it under wraps? But that's a whole other kettle of fish. My point being is its fallacious to believe Thomas and Flint had to keep their relationship a secret because of shame. I believe what you you think is shame is really Flint's cocktail of anger, grief, and self loathing that he didn't do something to help Thomas when he had the chance.
@Adam elle I don't think it was too much for media companies to allow to become popular because where's the profit in that? This aired on Starz so it's not like it was getting $ from conservative commercial sponsors like 'Boston Legal' was from ABC (who actively tried to cancel them by switching time and date slots without telling viewers). Anyway Starz doesn't operate like that. They had a financial incentive to see it do well. 'Black Sails' (IMHO) was just really overshadowed by a heavily criticized first season, and other shows like GoT, TWD, Vikings, and Stranger Things. As for the maroons casting Flint as a martyr---I think that's a bit of a stretch considering how many slaves were themselves divided about the pirates. Like Madi's maroons were for the rebellion but Julius' sure as shit weren't. And Julius had the numbers. All he wanted was peace in his lifetime. Like...the slaves on Nassau were used as whipping boys for the pirates actions. Sure, Flint stood up for them, but would that one instance be enough to rally those slaves to bring that terrifying prospect to others? Especially when a leader they trust, almost implicitly, is telling them suing for peace is the best option? Probably not. Because remember Madi didn't rule the maroons--her mother and Julius did. And Julius made a very convincing argument to the Queen. Add that to the fact Madi herself almost died and (I don't know about you) but I could see it being enough to get the Queen to reconsider and think more like a mom. "The queen even instantly sided with Flint over not exchanging the gems for Madi, they respect him as a leader." Yes. As a leader. Flint had value to them being intimately familiar with British battle tactics on sea and on shore. So what use would fighting in his memory serve when NONE of them have any real exposure to the British army/navy? Like the opportunity cost doesn't add up when you look at the potential loss the maroons are likely to incur when they don't have Flint as a leader, versus what they would could gain. Why? Because they'd have to take into consideration everything working against them like: their lack of weapons, the lack of a brothel's intelligence they'll have in the Americas, lack of committed agitators willing to risk life and limb to stir up sympathy for a slave rebellion, deeply unfamiliar terrain, no organized army to speak of, no safe supply routes should England and Spain decide to team up together for the sake of mutual interests (such as: keeping their slaves in slavery), etc. Like the pirates had a natural advantage in taking Nassau because it was their home. They knew it and the people living there, and even then it was still hard to retake. The Americas would be so much worse because there would be no home field advantage to draw from. Just the slaves themselves and a VERY few white influential sympathizers. That's it. Strategically everything would be working against them. Plus the lack of their two best military commanders: Flint & Blackbeard. So...yeah. I think any leader could figure out it would do more harm than good to continue fighting without a plan, or a person well versed in the enemy to help plot a plan. But that's just me.
In my mind Flint 100% died. I'm basing this only on the fact that when the camera pans away from Flint and Silver birds can be heard flying away. So I figure Flint was shot and the birds got spooked and flew off.
I love this analysis so much. I love your ending too! I wanted Thomas to live too personally but Flint being killed by Silver would have been ideal. But I think the writers wanted to go with this idea of Flint choosing some sort of happiness and stop destroying anything in his path just to satisfy his loss and betrayal.
this series is still genuinely underrated to this day, it does so much really good dialogues, great action, perfect acting, the level of the series remains the same from start to finish.
Having just finished the series, this was a great video to remind myself of the scale of it all. To think of how far the characters came, especially John Silver... This was a very well made anslysis and I really enjoyed hearing your thoughts on things, especially the LGBT+ aspects. Your info on the history surrounding that period was also very helpful. Thank you!
You're welcome. And thank you for your lovely comment! You would not believe how much the LGBTQIA+ stuff has gotten me into trouble from all sides. People think because I'm criticizing the ending I'm anti-LGBT...when in fact I REALLY liked that aspect about Flint's character. I thought it brought so much more depth to his hatred for English rule and politics. Especially after Peter Ashe's betrayal. But because I'm not fully 100% on board with him and Thomas living "happily ever after" in slavery either, I'm a sexist monster. When...NO. It's not fair to Thomas. Why should Thomas live and die in slavery when all he was "guilty" of was loving a man? A man who was fighting against slavery and is now joining into it because...Thomas is there?? It makes no sense!! Sure, Flint deserves to work and die in captivity. He's murdered way too many people not to have that coming to him, but Thomas? What did Thomas do to deserve captivity and back breaking labor without wages? Also why should Thomas be a reward? We don't like it when women are rewards for men so why should men be any different? That particular ending makes no sense to me, and I don't understand how anyone else could like it or think it's romantic. I just...don't.
great analysis, i absolutely love this series. so many good points made, and it never even occurred to me that contemporary politics could have influenced the ending (that which didn't settle well concerning my opinion of this masterpiece.)
I hope you don’t mind me unearthing this video two years after it was made, but I really appreciated your analysis and the thought you put into it, and as I’ve just wrapped up my first watch my emotions and thoughts are still very much alive and spinning, which is why I’d like to share my own two cents. I will disregard the transition into Treasure Island argument, not only because I have not read it but also because I believe the stakes lay elsewhere. I enjoyed watching the last episode. I am dissatisfied with both endings. I also think both endings needed to be portrayed. Rationally, the logical and best conclusion would be that Silver killed Flint and spun a narrative that could have a chance to appease Madi, as doing otherwise would not only suggest a discrepancy with canon (which I don’t think is that important but that’s another can of worms) but also create a moral conundrum, as you have suggested. Having said so, I am absolutely convinced that portraying a scenario in which Flint lives and rejoins Thomas, even if fictional, was fundamental, for reasons that go well beyond the “bury your gays” trope, of which I believe the authors of the show were at least to some extent aware. In episode 2 of season 1 Flint recounts a particular passage from the XI book of the Odyssey that I believe is crucial both in the understanding of Flint’s narrative and of the general meaning the show was trying to convey (It’s also very dear to me and I’m currently studying it at uni which makes it really hard not to info-dump). The ghost of Teiresias tells Odysseus that he needs to pick up an oar and travel inland until he’ll find a wayfarer who’ll mistake it for a shovel, at which point he must plant the oar in the earth and sacrifice cattle to Poseidon. If he does so, the prophet promises to him he’ll find a peaceful death in his old age, far from the sea. Anciently the sea was considered an harbinger of instability and turmoil, and of complete and all-encompassing oblivion, for the sea often reveals itself to be a cause of death and it leaves no trace after it has swallowed you whole. Earth, on the contrary, represents growth, stability, a life made possible and sustainable, far from the uncertainty and perils of the Great Blue, it symbolises rebirth. In order to be reborn and to make sense of the horror he’s gone through, to make the reconnection with his roots possible, Odysseus must first forget his past as a war hero and leave the sea behind. This theme resurfaces again in the series when James tells Miranda how he came about the name Flint and confesses he’s been hoping to return it to the sea for a long time. In the last episode, when Flint and Silver return to Skeleton Island to retrieve the cache, particular attention is placed by the camera on two shovels laying in the boat. Arguably, the point where Flint stops to rest and confront Silver is also the point where the metaphorical oar is planted, and the chance of reuniting with Thomas is finally presented to him. I believe the plantation scene was used not only as a means of justifying Thomas’ presence, but also to establish the earth symbolism. What Silver says about a man waking from a nightmare and readjusting to life as he knew it before he closed his eyes also seems to suggest a parallel to Odysseus’ journey. I am convinced James as a character could not be removed from the narrative until Flint’s mask, the embodiment of all the cruelty he had suffered and inflicted, of the war he had waged against the world and himself, was shed for good. Captain Flint needed to be killed in order for a man to be reborn, and you can’t kill a name with a gunshot. Wether Silver’s story truly happened or not is secondary, what matters is that it was there. I also think it ties in really neatly with the theme of stories generating other stories and shaping reality, as this particular element of Homer’s epic ended up giving birth to a whole new group of myths and literary works concerning Odysseus’ end, since it was never revealed in the main canon. However, the thought of James surrendering to slavery in order to get the closure he needs is simply insufferable, I don’t know if the reason it was there is that the authors thought it was the only possible scenario in which Flint could get his Ithaca back, but it undoubtedly sours the whole ordeal, making his death at the hands of John somewhat preferable. I am not satisfied with either of the possibilities, so I chose to focus on the role these endings play in the story and as a story itself, but if somehow they had found a way to make both endings plausible and coherent I have no doubts on which one I would’ve chosen as the true one.
It's entirely possible the writers layered the story with Odysseus' considering all the other literary easter eggs that were in the show. It's why I left the clip of Flint lingering over La Galatea by Miguel de Cervantes because what's revealed in the episode mirrors the conflict of that book. Two men seemingly in love with the same woman but vowing to be friends no matter what. Only Black Sails turned it on its head when we discover it's Miranda and Flint who vow to stay friends because they both love Thomas. But Galatea also has roots in Greek mythology that, again, kinda parallel Flint's arch. That being Acis dies by the hands of Polyphemus but Galatea transforms her lover into a river. One could argue that Miranda transforms James into Flint after Thomas' supposed death by urging him to go after Thomas' father. But I could be overthinking it. Still it's a lot of fun and I'm glad you shared your insights. Especially considering how nicely they tie in with all the other Greek legends and myths sprinkled throughout the show.
This show truly is an underrated masterpiece. Sooo many beautiful monologues and goosebumps moments. And the deaths on the show.... I love a good death, and there were some truly stunning ones. I'm certain it'll remain high on my list of faves for a long time. (It's 2nd only to The Get Down. Another underrated masterpiece, that one) I unfortunately don't have much of an analytical mind. I never even realized abt the choose your own ending thing, I just assumed Thomas in Savannah was real! But that's why I love videos like this so much! It adds another level for the next re-watch, and makes it all the more interesting. I think your video is great, and I especially enjoyed learning all the historical stuff. If you ever did another video on this show talking more about the "sub-plots, themes and hidden messages," I would watch the heck out of that too!
I absolutely love black sails I have the box set and I must have watched it more times then I can count. Billy, Randel and Charlies are my favourites on the show.
In my headcanon Silver actually shot Flint at the ending, but he survived. Then he was taken to the plantation on Savannah, where Thomas was at one point but had since passed away (That's the reason Silver did not use Thomas whereabouts to stop Flint on Skeleton Island. If Thomas was alive and in Savannah, why wouldn't Silver just tell it to Flint?). So Flint, badly injured and without any possibility of escape, and without any motivation having lost everything and everyone, and being betrayed by the only friend he had left, turned to rum (something he actually does in the show S1E8). Billy escaped the Island via contrabandists or other pirates and eventually got to Savannah where he found Flint in a alcohol induced delirium and got the map from him. I guess that over the years Flint thought of escaping sometimes, and he planned to use the treasure in some way, so he draw the map early on, before he lost every strenght and spirit to escape. Silver told Madi the story about Flint reunion with Thomas in Savannah, telling, as his character used to, a half truth, and thus triying to lie to her about Flint's true fate and his betrayal of him. Madi eventually forgave him, though she never believed Silver story and that shadow kept flying over them and their relationships for years, until Silver grew tired of that living and thought of reclaim the treasure for him as his last adventure. Aaand then you have Treasure Island.
I just finished watching Black Sails on Netflix and I thoroughly enjoyed your analysis. I also enjoy our kindred spirit. I am most critical of the things I really love in the hopes for the always unattainable perfection. Unfortunately, that can be very frustrating and perplexing for some of the people I love. That being said, this show was as close to perfect in all aspects as you could expect from any!
I just found this 3 days ago too. I binged it as well. Spent my 2 days off from work in Nassau, so to speak. It was amazing. I visited Nassau in 1987 and it was wonderful to see a little of the back story of such a beautiful place.
It was such a deep, multi-layered show. Absolutely one of the greats. These were real people with real agendas. Throw pirate tropes out the window, this show changed the whole stereotypical pirate personality.
This is like the first analysis I've seen for this amazing show, and tho the ending was very underwhelming, the series as a whole was pretty damn great. Loved this video.
I've always found it especially difficult for any serial show to keep me hooked from start to finish, usually due to the showrunners running out of steam and wanting to do something else by the time of the last few seasons or just because of other unfortunate hits to the quality of the production or the writing or too many changes of critical actors. But of all the different ones, that have come and gone before and after this one, and which also have incredible production values or writing or acting, this single show stands alone in one regard. It might not be perfect, but its strengths outshine its weaknesses (like historical realism in terms of guns, ships, ect. which I also usually care about a fair bit) to such a degree that I just...forgive it everything. Which is extremely odd for me, because I always try to remember that TV shows are just things, in the end, that are not 'real'. And yet...with this one it just completely blows past all of those rational arguments against it and it can do no wrong by me. In short, I think it's safe to say it has captured my heart fully - a feat I simply can't say any other show (no matter how good) has truly managed.
I miss sitting down every morning and binging (about 3 ep. a day) this show two years ago. Wish we got more. Hell i would love to see a treasure island one season series.
Wow, you're name and your icon couldn't be any better for this if I had planned it myself. So I don't know if you know but back 2012 the BBC (at least I think it was the BBC) did a pretty decent mini series of 'Treasure Island' staring Eddie Izzard, Rupert Perry Jones, and Elijah Wood. It's not perfect but if you haven't seen it you should def. check it out.
I watched the last episodes last night and the ending was very well done. Although it was a mix of history and fantasy both complemented each other very nicely albeit with a fair bit of poetic licence. The ending has now left open a window to make a new series based on the new version of Nassau and the characters who survived. I would love to see a new version of Treasure Island. All in all it was a thoroughly enjoyable and almost addictive series.
Nicely done, and that last comment to push past the first season really is the main hardship. One of my best friends wasn't able to get past it because of at first the Starz of it all, but really got to her was what happened to Max, she couldn't get past it.
I get that. It's why I can't watch "Outlander" anymore. I can't stomach rape. I was fortunate enough to be watching 'Black Sails' with a friend who warned me in advance it was coming so I was able to skip over it. But I had to watch it for this video, and seeing Max afterwards 'servicing' Vane's men was somehow worse. So I understand your friend's position and she has my sympathies.
I like to think the perfect ending would’ve been a close on and fade out of the stories of black sails and then a zoom in of a seaside village in England (or was it on the Thames) with a disclaimer of how many years laterr. Then a view of inside the Admiral Benbow Inn and tavern and then a close up of a blind man entering in. And young Jim looking up, seeing him. With a view from behind a man with a peg leg a block down the street looking toward the tavern.
It's a very underrated series that probably didn't get much notice because the first season was underwhelming. It relied too much on sex and sadism and not enough on character and plot, but once they got over that, the show really took off. In regards to the ending ... the city of Savannah didn't exist until 1733, more than a decade after the events of Black Sails. That means Flint couldn't have been sent to a plantation outside of Savannah. Yeah, yeah, the show mixes truth and fiction, and totally invents persons, places, and things, but ... that's a pretty good clue in my book that Silver and Rackham were lying about Flint's fate. I totally think the ending was influenced by the Twitter mob, which is a shame. It makes total sense for Flint to die on that island, killed by Silver. Toby Stephens was great in this role. I read an interview with him where he talked about being the Dad on Netflix's "Lost in Space" and how he had to do something lighter after playing Flint for 4 years. What's great about this show, though, is that while the narrative is awesome, the real life events and people are just as interesting. And while some of the events aren't as dramatic, others are way more so than the show portrays.
I know Savannah didn't exist until 1733. So did the writers. It's why Max only refers to it as a plantation north of Spanish Florida. Robert Louis Stevenson's book, however, is set some time shortly after 1754. That's when Billy Bones is bequeathed Flint's map in Savannah Georgia.
When I first watched the finale I was baffled that Flint would willingly choose to abandon the war. But then I thought about how his death was depicted in Treasure Island, and considering that he died of alcohol related problems it kind of makes sense to think he made the choice to bail out and then regretted it for the rest of his life.
It kinda made sense to me, because his pain and loss was what drove him to fight. When he saw Thomas, he must have lost a great deal of his grief. Besides since season 1 Flint`s dream was that of retiring into the countryside and leaving the sea behind.
I just finished binge watching after 2 weeks. It was excellent to say the least. The passion and emotions in each character was certainly deep. The writers had stunning scripts. Costumes were very true to form. Great series, one of the best I've seen in years!
Wow. Excellent information and analysis. I had no idea that Flynt's survival or that possibility could've been influenced by factors outside of the story.
Well I misspoke about Flint's survival. I remember reading an article saying the writers wanted him to survive, but the internet ate so I can't certify that was their intent. But thank you for your lovely words. I'm glad you liked the video.
Kinda shit that Woods Rogers, a man who was horribly scarred before he got anywhere near Nassau, is played by such a handsome, clean dude. Still, love this show.
I've given up on expecting historical accuracy of hygiene in media, it's just not going to happen. Ever. They're always going to push a romantic ideal that didn't exist down our throats for the sake of being hashtag relatable.
I just discovered this series. WOW. It was so good! Your analysis is top notch. One of the best analyses I've watched about any show/movie. I agree about how they wrapped up on Flint but its ambiguity helped swallow it, though felt it weak comparative to the rest of the writing in the show. You helped me understand why the showrunners did what they did.
The best show ever made. I get so unbelievably sad when I'm on the last episode. I just want more. To live in it. And see the treasure island show with these characters! God I wish that happened.
You got yourself a sub. Phenomenal summary, I love the historical tidbits you included. Treasure Island was probably the first book I ever read. I have loved pirates ever since.
Brilliant show and a great video breaking everything down. I thought season four fell off the rails a bit but it didn’t Game of Thrones itself to death.
let me tell you a story..bout a spaniard named Vazquez.. one of the best show i ever seen, beautiful story from start to finish. they perfectly captured the era it was set in.
I've been a lifelong James Bond afficionado and for the longest time my only contact with Toby Stephen's was as the main antagonist in "Die Another Day". I'm sure Toby did his best but it is a very lackluster and forgettable performance. I just recently finished Black Sails and was absolutely mesmerized by Toby. It honestly took me a few episodes to place where I knew him from. He has a certain tendency to clench his jaw and show his lower teeth when he conveys anger that I had seen somewhere before. Now his performance on Black Sails and his portrayal of Gustav Graves is so starkly different it should be studied. I understand one is a movie and one is a series but even if any one episode is held against his portrayal in the movie it is glaringly different. Toby Stephen's absolutely blew me away as Capt Flint. Bravo!
Yeah the ending didn't sit well with me either. I vowed to myself that if they every create a spinoff or sequel to the show, say treasure island itself, I wouldn't watch it, but now I'm rewatching the entire show because there is literally nothing good coming out right now.
This was such good analysis and exactly what I need to listen to after finishing the show. I do think the ending is actually a lot bleaker than it would at first seem, and that's exactly what the creators intended. I read Flint's ending as ambiguous and Silver's desire for comfort over revolution realistic. I appreciate you saying the "happy ending" for Flint isn't actually very happy at all. Spending the rest of his life as an indentured servant on a plantation in Georgia? Not convinced this would be good even if it did happen (which I don't think it did fwiw). An actual idealistic/optimistic ending would have had the maroons and pirates joining together in radical abolitionist and anti-imperial solidarity that was ongoing and strong. Historically, as you point out, that just did not happen. Abolitionist revolutions in the New World were difficult to sustain, though the Maroons probably did better than most groups. Jamaican maroons were also able to hold on to autonomy longer than maroons in any other part of the New World I believe. Anyways, I thought the ending where imperial forces got the better end of compromise, and counterculture insurgency still remained in some form in revolt and piracy was definitely realistic. Silver was no revolutionary, he loved Madi, but he did not love her war. I assumed she still loved him but never fully forgave him...I love your idea of him trying to spend his life making it up to her. Anyways, I like this analysis a lot...even parts I disagreed with. :)
I sympathise with frustration over the ending. I do think it's well done, partly because the ending is the very thing that makes it so I can't leave the show alone. The show says, people believe what they want to believe/choose your ending, and for me at least, I don't want to believe either version. Flint killed and his death covered up as well as the revolution of the Maroons dashed forever? Horrible! Flint ALIVE, a person who WILLINGLY gave up that revolution and submitted himself to chains to be with a person who may not even recognize him? And Madi forgiving Silver for either of these things? That's WORSE. I've never before seen such a fucking tragic and bitter "happily ever after"
THANK YOU!!! OMG!!! You are the first fucking person to comment on my video who has ever fucking got it!!! I am so sorry if my expletives seem out of place, but I have been trying to explain this to EVERYBODY and nobody gets it. You are the first to see it without needing an explanation. You have made my month. Seriously. THANK. YOU.
I never got the impression that there was any sort of happily ever after. Silver has entirely alienated Madi as a result of his actions in the forest, with Flint, and then (seemingly) suddenly not giving AF about the treasure. Then again, Silver is the greyest of grey characters - he purposefully has no backstory (writers commented on this themselves), he's always lying and spinning/twisting for his own advantage. I'm sure romantics hoped he'd at least have a different reaction with Madi, but it would have been out of character. Maybe they reconcile to some degree, as she does seem to be the wife referred to in Treasure Island, but I can't imagine they had many happy times. He may have cared for her, but she was always a means to an end for Silver. As for Flint... Flint is dead. James is left, but he's still broken. I don't know why Thomas wouldn't recognize him physically. Maybe as a person, who he'd become, I can believe that. But that would be the case with a matter of time and distance anyhow. Regardless, Jack says it - "a story is true; a story is untrue. As time extends, it matters less and less."
@@moviemonarch1617 Why does all fantasy need blissful happy ever afters? If you know ANYTHING about treasure island then you know that Flint and Silver can never end a prequel seeing eye to eye. You know the gold can never actually be recovered. You know Silver and Madi don't end up together.
@@branthall1787 I wouldn't call Black Sails fantasy and I don't believe every fantasy story tries to have a happily ever after ending. Certainly, many try for satisfactory endings, but that's different and not uncommon for every genre ever. As for Silver and Madi not ending up together, I have to question what book you read because Treasure Island does mention Long John being married to a woman of color. So...yeah.
@@moviemonarch1617 "I wouldn't call a prequel to a fantasy novel fantasy" Well you would, by definition, be wrong. Black sails is about 1% actual, tangible, timelined history and 99% fantasy.
I rather think that after Captain Flint's speech he was killed by Long John Silver and when Flint was bleeding to death he had some type of hallucination where he saw how it would be like to be reunited with Thomas if somehow he was alive, similar to what happened when he dreamed of Miranda when she was already dead (IMO that would have been a better ending for the story and would fit more with Long John Silver the "Treasure Island" who doesn't mind kidnapping a child to achieve his goal) but still Flint ending with Thomas and both being alive fits perfectly into Treasure Island, Flint was known but he becomes a slave and ends up being another unknown slave and the other pirates think he's dead, anyways great video and that's why I probably didn't liked the end since I prefer to have one clear ending so you can understand everything, I don't like to be hyped for Flint's slaves revolution to takeover Nassau for then Flint agreeing to become a slave when he found out Thomas was alive, I would liked an ending where Flint found Thomas is alive and being a slave then Flint's howsoever rescue Thomas and the series ends with both going elsewhere becoming anonymous persons again
OMG YES!! You have just put into words my exact feelings of rage for Flint's ending!! HOW would anyone interpret his reunion with Thomas as a happy satisfying ending is BEYOND me. This man spent literal YEARS fighting the British Empire only to in the end literally enslave himself to that empire? I'm not buying it. Also the very concept of "humane slavery" disturbingly undermines a good 56% of the show's own theme. I dislike the bury your gays as much as the next person, but narratively speaking resurrecting the character whose death was the main motivation of your protagonist is not a particularly smart move. Although I admit, it was probably the only way to get Flint to give up the fight. Still, why the hell could they not but Thomas out of slavery instead of committing Flint to the same fate? Like, ugh????!!!?? I also absolutely agree with your point that Thomas would not still be in love with this version of Flint. SO much water has been under the bridge, and Flint is literally not the man Thomas knew anymore. I have literally thought the same exact thing upon finishing the series, and never really found anyone else to share this sentiment before. Really great analysis, I thoroughly enjoyed it!
Agree with the really great analysis as well. And Maven's corrections. I didn't feel betrayed by the ending. I thought (or bought, really) they began softening Flint even before the Maroons joined the cause. Even the idea that he would take LJS as his equal showed a softening of his armor. Anyway, my eyes are opened with these possibilities. The last season's storylines seemed rushed. It could've easily been doubled to explore these better possibilities. Still, they artistically wove the "They tell their children the world is full of monsters..." to, "You've only read what I want you to know about me..." to, a young girl sharing sensational pirate fables to Jack, and to his ambiguous series-ending monologue. Like or hate it, they've been consistent with it. And godammit better than Tyron's, "There's nothing in the world more powerful than a good story," speech. NO, I"M NOT OVER IT!
You want to know my theory on why they kept Thomas enslaved instead of busting him out? It's fucked up but it falls within Flint and Silver's characters at that stage of the war. Silver needs Flint to remain out of circulation for Madi to give up the fight, right? Right (even though it's wrong and smacks of white savior bullshit). Well what better way to do that than get Flint to agree to slavery with Thomas. But why not just bust Thomas out? Easy. Flint doesn't benefit from Thomas being free. Not just yet. Because if Thomas was free first thing he'd want to know is what's happened since he's been on the other side of the world in isolation and chains. Imagine how grieved he would be if word were to get back to him that Flint killed his father, encouraged Miranda's rage, which directly led to her death, burned Carolina to the ground to fulfill her desires for revenge, and then went against Nassau's governor who was just trying to carry on Thomas' original plan for the place all because of him. Only to try do something good for selfish reasons only to back track on it because of what this mad man imagines to be love? By becoming Flint James abandoned everything Thomas lived, fought, and was eventually enslaved for. The only chance Flint has to keep Thomas is if he keeps Thomas there. If you get what I'm saying. Which is fucking evil and not love at all. But...I can see Flint agreeing to it. And I can see Silver offering it. Because in the end they're not good guys. At all.
I had NEVER heard of this show. Was about to cancel my Starz trial on Amazon Prime and saw it's thumbnail. Thought, bah. Let's give it a shot. I think it took one or two episodes, but I was totally hooked. Binged watch the entire thing over the last 2 weeks. After having finished it it's seriously it's probably one of my favorite shows. And talk about a real proper subversion of your expectations with the ending. I hated the ending, but as it unfolded I accepted it. It took me a few minutes. But at least it didn't take me a day, a week or a year. Oh? So the show writers confirm that Flint was truly alive? The convenience of having already found the location before the Spanish invasion, and Flint's line "You'll never be able to craft a story good enough for her to believe you.". Really made me think that he ended up killing Flint. So I agree with Movie Monarch's take on the 'better' ending.
Well if you look in my description you'll find I admit that I misspoke when I said the writers confirmed that Flint living was the official ending. I think I was watching an interview of the cast and crew and misremembered one of them saying they HOPED that was the real ending, but the writers have never confirmed or denied it.
This is one of the very few shows that I actually own. Probably my favorite since "Profit" in 1996 which was about a decade ahead of its time. Toby Stephens should have won every award available to him, as should the writers, special effects team, and at least a few of the supporting cast. It was significantly better than any show contemporary with it, and probably a top 10 all times series comparable in quality to the likes of "The Wire", "Justified", or "Breaking Bad". I always warn folks who ask about it that it starts slowly. It really doesn't pace well for the first 6-7 episodes. But after that, it's amazing for the rest of the show. The investment of slogging through the beginning of the series is worth the remaining 30ish episodes.
"Toby Stephens should have won every award available to him" Hard agree. "It was significantly better than any show contemporary with it, and probably a top 10 all times series" Agreed. Although I would have to add M*A*S*H onto that list because the ending was perfect. "I always warn folks who ask about it that it starts slowly. It really doesn't pace well for the first 6-7 episodes. But after that, it's amazing for the rest of the show." Some of the best TV shows take their time with the first season. It's there to establish characters and the world, while second season plays with them. It happened in "Buffy", "Hannibal", and "Community" so I knew it was coming in "Black Sails." Well...that and I read the book so I knew what was coming I just didn't know how.
@@deltagamma1442 "House" - which you've probably already seen. "Luther" - which you might not have. Both shows maintained a decent quality for the whole run, which is sadly not the case quite often. "Mr. Robot" for example, started out great, but lost steam through becoming enamored with its own cleverness, and ended up mediocre.
OMG, I had to check your comment twice lol, I ha e the same top series BB, The Wire, and Justified!! Justified IMO was so fricken good, especially the ending, top 3 endings ever to me. I have BS in my top 6, with MASH at number 1. I know MASH is a different animal, but it has enough drama to make my all time favorite, again IMHO. , but off topic, yes Black Sails was AWESOME, and Tobey Stephens deserved every award he could have been able to.
It's actually a trend I've been noticing for a while now. I think it's a side effect of there being one massive story arc that extends over multiple seasons as opposed to one. Examples include: 'Avatar the Last Airbender', 'GoT', 'She-Ra', 'Hannibal'. The first seasons of all of these shows are, arguably, good but were overshadowed by later seasons because the emotional payoff was placed on the VERY last episode of said first season. Take my examples. Fans remember the attack of the North Pole, Ned Stark's execution, the battle of Brightmoon, and Will Graham's arrest. But the lead up to those things takes all season. And while it's either cathartic or devastating these events create a bigger question that's yet to be answered. One that fans desperately need to know of what happens next? Which is great but a gamble. People are not known for their long attention spans. But see, my theory is that's it worth it. For big overacting plots the first season exists to (primarily) establish the cast of characters. Things like who they are, what they're like (personalities), what motivates them, and how they interact with others. If done right, it gives the audience a reason to care enough to continue on until the plot eventually kicks in (read: the finale). Thus when the second season airs it's usually MUCH better than the first because the writers have already done the work in establishing character dynamics. Now they get to play with them. Thus giving the illusion that the first season was kinda slow. Which, in comparison, it was. But it's absolutely critical if you want a show that just get's better and better with every season like 'Black Sails' did. Sorry I rambled at you...
As someone who just finished the series, I think S1 was pretty good but S2 was my absolute favourite. Those final 2 episodes were just something different. I liked the rest a lot too but the standout moment was the end of season 2
@@britishnerd3919 I’m on season 3 and I don’t get how people say it’s bad season 1 was amazing it was slow but my attention was grasped every second the dialogue and charceetrs and world were amazing season 2 was a masterpiece and so far seaosn 3 has been really good I can’t wait to finish this show
Literally just finished binging the series. The ending... As I was watching, thought maybe they intentionally muted the sound of the gunshot as the birds fly away abruptly and the men move to a change in the air. Flint had just been killed.
At 1 point Flint was asked by Silver if he could have Thomas back, have some semblance of a life, would he give up the bigger causes for it and Flint responded that he honestly wasn't sure but it could be very likely. So it's not that farfetched that especially after Flint sees how the cause starts to lose fervour chiefly among Silver who at that time had the majority of the loyalty of the fighting force, and if Silver walked away being a pirate king and legend then most likely much of the pirates would've gave up the war too. Yes like Rackham said, Flint had some diehard supporters like Maddy but it wouldn't have been enough alone so Flint conceded his revolution especially after learning that Thomas was alive which was all the more reason for him to yield. Billy wasn't marooned in place of Ben Gunn cause Ben was marooned 3 years before the events of Treasure Island sailing with a whole different crew at that point so Billy's time on the island is just added in the prequel since you never hear about that in the book
"Flint was asked by Silver if he could have Thomas back, have some semblance of a life, would he give up the bigger causes for it and Flint responded that he honestly wasn't sure but it could be very likely." You may want to revisit season 4 episode 4 because that is NOT how that conversation went down. Flint responded with 'I think if [Thomas] knew how close we were to the victory he gave his life to achieve he wouldn't want me to.' Silver responded with 'Yeah, but that's not what I asked' and then detailed how maybe it was possible that Thomas' dad didn't kill Thomas but cast him out and Flint responded with 'well he didn't' and gave Silver a look that said 'drop it' right as the doors to the fort opened allowing the exchange of prisoners. So...while it may not be farfetched that Flint would drop out of the cause it is a bit much to ask that Thomas would be okay with James once he finds out all the blood that's on Flint's hands. Blood (including his father's and most of Charlestown) that Flint spilled in Thomas' name. And for what? Silver said when he thought Madi was dead he understood, for the first time, what Flint must have gone through. "The need to make sense of the loss...to exalt her memory with battles." Battles only matter if the war is won. Churchill was right when he said "history is written by the victors". A concept Flint clearly understands when he talks to Silver in the last episode. (Read: the 'England paints the world in shadows' speech.) Thus the ending (where Flint abandoned the cause) makes those battles/deaths meaningless. Why? Because England is still free to paint POC and LGBTQIA+ people as something subhuman. And if Flint is smart enough to understand this, what makes you think Thomas wouldn't? That he wouldn't be horrified at the lengths his former lover went to ALL in Thomas' name? Then KNOWING that the only reason he's is still a slave is because he's being used to keep Flint in check? That Flint has a better chance at convincing him he's still worthy of love when Thomas has no freedom or resources to run away? That is why I don't buy into that particular ending. As for your Billy/Ben Gunn thing, you may have a point. I'm still not satisfied because now I'm thinking of Billy hitching a ride with the crew who abandons Ben Gunn. "Alright Ben, you failed to help us find the treasure. We put it to a vote and we're abandoning you here." "Oy," Billy shouts from the shores. "Can I come with you?" "Who's this bloke?" "My name's Billy Bones. I've been here for a REALLY long time." The pirates stroke their chins. "Do you know where the treasure is?" Billy goes shifty eyed. "No~o." "Damn! All right, climb aboard you tall weirdo." "Huzzah!" As Billy splashes into the launch, Ben looks on forlornly. "Before you leave can I have some cheese? Fellas? Fellas!"
@@moviemonarch1617 Love has made people overlook a lot of things in history and fiction. It doesn't make sense to you sure but it just is what it is and no I do remember the episode, I get what you're saying but what I said holds water
I also think the ending was bad and agree with you. Set up for this big war and nothing happens. Felt extremely rushed. First 3 seasons were excellent but season 4 turned into some weird romance drama. Long monologues with no payoffs.
Best show I've seen. Watch this if the last few seasons of GoT disappointing you. Thanks for the analysis! I like to think of it as a good story apart from the actual history and the book (the show is very loose with the history anyway). To me Flint lived because Flint needed to die, become McGraw again, as a symbol of the end of strife. When I was watching I did not think about the LGTBQ+ in the same way, in the setting of the show I don't think it's a statement as we perceive it now, pirates fuck what they want to.
Best show ever, tied with Supernatural for me, my wife is watching it now and cant get enough, Covid 19 binge watching. Im watching for second time and for those of you that havent done a second watch, just two words, DO IT, you wont regret. We(wife and I) are stagehands in the Denver/Boulder area and can say that the sets, costumes, props, acting, music, sound, editing, and overall production value are second to none. Yes, it GOT production, lol, although I think they should share the thro...helm. I see much talk of happy ending and Treasure Island. Is there a spinoff or a RLS run coming? If anywhere near a good as this, I say Yo Ho Hoe and a bottle of rum! Thank you cast and crew, Oscar worthy one and all. Thank you writers for your work. This will live on for many decades aye even centuries. Treasure! Argghh!!
"Is there a spinoff or a RLS run coming?" Not to my limited knowledge, no. Jon Steinberg has gone on record with a 'never say never' attitude towards a sequel, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen any time soon. However, if you're interested, there was a miniseries of 'Treasure Island' made back in 2012 that's pretty good. Not terribly loyal to the book, but what it adds and changes make sense. Or do in my opinion. It stars Eddie Izzard and has a few other very familiar faces.
A very good analyses of a very good show! I enjoyed watching Black Sails, mostly because of the wonderfully written and played characters. That to me was the backbone of the show. As you mentioned, the dialogues were already very strong and then they were brought to life perfectly by the actors, that was refreshing to watch. My one gripe I have with the show is that they deployed plot twists a little bit too liberally. Yes, this makes for an exciting and unpredictable spectable, but it started to bother me that NO plan or future came to be as it was so beautifully explained by the actors. I'm all for a good twist, but only if it actually serves the story. There are HOURS of (good) dialogue that are in my eyes a bit wasted as they lead nowhere or there contents are simply ignored later on. A good example of this was the "emancipation" of Silver. Silver was at the verge of finally breaking loose, when he gets distracted and all of it just fades away into the next new plot. There are SO much of these unsatisfied plots that fade away into the next one, it took my focus away from the story and by season 3 i was no longer invested in any of the plans or schemes brought forward, since they wouldn't go anywhere anyway. Though this would be a major show stopper for most series, Black Sails makes up for it with the well built, strong characters and the portrayels there of. Also it's production quality is so high, it rivals the very best.
Thank you for your lovely comment. I'm going to be honest, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by 'the emancipation of Silver'. I think this is reference to season 2 and Silver almost getting the treasure but, please, correct me if I'm wrong. Also, I'm curious, how do you define 'plot twists' because I think we have differing parameters. For example: Eleanor's arrest was a plot twist. The writers spent a good amount of time teasing the audience with Eleanor and Charles having a civil war on Nassau. Especially after Max visits her and tells Jack: "I've seen what Eleanor can do when she is feeling ambitious and I've seen what she can destroy when she is angry...[this Eleanor is] something else entirely." Then we see Jack and Max's reaction to Eleanor mad-dogging them from the window, and that was set up. That was SUCH good set up. So for it to end with Eleanor's arrest was a massive twist (not to mention one hell of a cliffhanger for those of us who actually really liked Eleanor). So, again, I'm curious what you thought was a twist and why.
@@moviemonarch1617 With the emancipation of Silver I meant his breaking out of Flint's shadow. It's basically his entire arc. Going from being captured by Flint to slowly gaining his trust and eventually rising as high and maybe even above him. But there is a lot of build-up towards Flint really breaking free and killing Flint and then when that moment arrives, it's interupted and they are simply friends again because the situation demands it. That is an example of whay I mean by dedicating al lot of time and effort into a specific plot-move and then twisting the plot to go in an unforseen direction. That can be a really cool trick, but the problem I found is that they did this too often, especially in seasons 3 and 4. It caused me to no longer care for any of the plans and shemes they were setting up, because it would end up a different way anyway, so why bother giving attention to it. The problem isn't the writing. All of the build-ups and twists were written very well and they never went in an unbelievable direction, it's just that by season 3 it was obvious that with every plan they made, some crazy twist would come along and that spoiled the surprise a bit and made me lose focus in some of the storylines. But again, this is my personal nitpicking of an awesome show! I loved it and would very much recommend it to other people too.
That one death scene in season 4, yea, that was probably the most gruesome thing I've ever seen on television. It was fucking amazing. The whole way that scene played out, at first I was like "oh, that doesn't look so bad.." then he comes up and I wonder "why is he all shredded?".. then they show you. My favorite thing about it though is that, while not how that man saw is end historically, it was a way that many men did, and I don't think I've ever seen it portrayed before, and if I have, it certainly wasn't done that well. This show was such a 10 out of 10, I'm upset it took me so long to find it. Rare to see a show start this good, and literally get better every season until it has an almost perfect ending, and then you can read a 150 y.o. book to hear what happens next lol. EDIT: I had no idea people didn't like the first season, I was hooked from the start. The quality of writing, and elevation of narrative above all else was so refreshing to me. I think it may be due to the tv shows we've had in recent years, and their tendency to fall apart shortly after starting. It definitely left me craving something better, and that had depth, and Black Sails has that in spades.
It needs be said that this show is also funny as shut. There're scenes and dialogues that just makes you laugh. Some shows are so serious that they forgot to actually entertain the watchers.
The story was a good pirate story, (minus some elements weaker), the actors were well-casted and acted very well, the characters are mainly good and lovable (I hate only a few of them), you want to see them win, and feel genuine fear or sadness when they are in trouble, plus some of them have a very good alchemy between one another. I hated the fact that, quote : "Black Sails, in some ways, is designed to be a punk series", meaning it raises good point about the problems in our society, but proposes nothing in return. Pirates are just robbers who feed an olicarchy on the island, which allows said oligarchy to make big profits on their backs. They do not fight to make a better society, they just fight for the place, and to control the trade. Plus, they do not sow, build or raise families on the island, they just live like squatters and look for gold. In conclusion, I have no problems with the series itself, but with it's subtext.
It may be an unpopular opinion, but season 1 has something special too. It has a raw realism that the other seasons haven't, specially since season 3. I love all the show but for me, the first two seasons are the heart and soul of the black sails.
I respect that. For me, personally, I felt like the first season was largely set up. It established who these characters are, their relationships to each other and Nassau, and gave us a glimpse of their motivations for the Urca gold. The second season then took that foundation and shook it up.
Good God you have presented a ton of history into this! I for one never read treasure island. And I never put the correlation between John Silver and Long John Silver until Billy Bones stated it in the show. Which gave me goosebumps and left me with that Ho!y $hit moment. Flint I loved most of 1st season. By Second season I began to dislike him. I understood his motives but I my self wouldn't want anything to do with him it I was in that world. Jack Rackam I wasn't that much of a fan at first but man is that character enjoyable! I was turned onto this show buy a tabletop wargame called Blood and Plunder. This show is amazing and their are several episodes that are emotionally difficult to wade through. Excellent over view!
Aw thank you! I recommend reading "Treasure Island". It's very episodic in nature and was meant to be enjoyed by 12 year old boys. Plus it'll give you an idea of where they got the name "McGraw" from. The 2nd season is where I fell in love with Flint. I know not everybody is expected to feel that way but honestly I adore that ending so much. Miranda Barlow was phenomenal in her last minutes. Just...brilliant! The ticking clock is my favorite. One of the few shows where I loved every character for different reasons.
yeah flint lives was a bad idea just from the shows story line(and treasure island) yes he is the main character and all that u wanna see him happy but he was a monster a killer,sinner,betrayer,pirate he did all theses awful things like he said u can't go back it will become stale after all hes done
I recently watched your video and was thinking about the things you said about the ending. How Madi couldn't have forgiven Silver after betraying her, how they used sending Silver to be a slave so they wouldn't end up with a kill the gays thing and how it would have been better for Flint to have died and how Flint was terrible boyfriend material because of the awful things he did. And after thinking a bit on what you said it the ending actually made more sense to me than before. I mean, we can all agree Flint has done some awful things even to his crew (like taunting Dufresne to be captain again and leading them into the storm), and that a lot of times people wanted to punish him, ban him from the crew, depose him, even what he did to Silverton, he was an asshole but he definitely wasn't a thief. So maybe the only way for Madi to trust him again and for Silver to be himself, to trust that he would not be manipulated again by someone he was so scared of was to send him away. But also he probably believe Flint should be punished for the awful things he did. So he sent him to the plantation, he could have sent him anywhere, but to feel better about himself Silver was graceful enough to sent him where he knew Thomas was, to be with someone he loved even if it was in a terrible condition. And also, when they first find each other Thomas doesn't know about anything Flint did, that first and beautiful moment we saw was just two lovers reconecting, but also i feel like Thomas is a good and merciful person, even more after living such an awful life for so many years, so who knows how their relationship progressed after. Now, yeah, they could have killed Flint, but to such awful things he did, I don't think it would have been enough.
You're entitled to whatever opinion gives you the most comfort, but I personally don't approve of the idea that people are rewards or punishments. Thomas is being kept a slave as a reward for Flint and I don't condone that--I can't.
Flint didn't really care about the war, the freedom of Nassau and the pirates, he was broken and had nothing to lose and that makes a man dangerous as silver said in their final onscreen moments.
So much things I want to talk about this serie too haha But I'll give my 2 cents for the dialogues that is alike: even though some people are very different, sometime in life because of external favors they can be the same person. And that means alot, Like Eleanor / Flint / Vane / Silver doing similar things even disapproving when others do. Man I like this serie and will watch again
These are my opinions. No more no less.
I love your options...
agree about the lame ending
You have made me look up the show. Love your passion.
@@dwinsemius aw thanks!
@@ENIGMAXII2112 opinions*
I can't believe that Toby Stephens didn't get any awards for his portrayal of Flint. He was fantastic in that role.
I agree hard-core 100%
We can’t see every end, most likely everyone would agree with what your comment including me,I think the show in its entirety is a masterpiece and should be more popular. Same thing goes for musicians and the like too. But Hollywood and the devil are in the details somewhere between all the drugs and pedophilia. It’s no surprise to me that true talent and entertainment gets buried beneath all the greed and immorality behind the scenes. But the entertainment industry is, was and always will be a dirty cut throat business.
Because it's underrated
The only person I can even think to be as good in Flints role as Toby Stephens might be Russel Crowe... But Toby Stephens is so good there is really nobody that could`ve played Flint apart from Stephens
They were too busy sucking off GoT back then
Most underrated show ever
Just finished season 4 and I'm so sad there aren't anymore episodes
@@1999deshan Im so glad it was underrated while shootings ongoing. So the story ve been told very well without any pressure of audience expectations. Because pirate era has material enough for 20 seasons, and there is this GOT example.
Seriously! I just found it and its incredible 😍
I loved watching this show.
💯
It’s one of the few shows where I actually truly loved the ending. It was cathartic seeing Flint genuinely happy and at peace finally.
This. I understand where the criticism for the ending comes from in this video, but i really liked it. It is one of those very few and far between moments where homosexual romance is involved that actually feel touching and genuine and not forced for ...reasons...
@@rofl0rblades yeah I liked the ending, but I disagree with questioning why flint is still alive. he isn't. flint was a creation of james mcgraw. a creation that no longer exists once he steps away from the sea. flint is very very dead. it is james mcgraw who survives. he talks very explicitly about shedding the pirate life in both season 1 and 2, and he does just that. and in regards to the issue of slavery, it is highly questionable, but that plantation is likely far preferable to thomas having spent all that time in a sanitarium. and there is only one shot of them there, who's to say they don't escape?
There’s also the idea that Silver just killed Flint and lied about everything.
I think it's because they ended by their own choice, versus going too long and eventually getting cancelled. I find shows that end on their own have the best endings. :)
It was the worst kind of ending... -_-
It´s outrageous that this video isn´t more widespread. No clickbait, no flamboyance, no pretense, straight to the point, full of well-selected information and meaningful. Keep on the good work and I´m sure it´ll pay off!
*blush* Wow. Thank you! I think this is the most lovely comment I've ever received.
Just as the show, something this good goes largely unnoticed. I’m still furious how this show was and still is underrated.
I just finished this show after watching the first season when it aired years ago. I got about 5 episodes in and somewhat forgot about it. After shows like GOT, Vikings and some of my other favs started making writing decisions I didn’t like, I found myself re starting this show, about a month ago. I watched every single episode in that month. This show blew me away with how amazing the writing, acting, filming and pretty much everything about it. It’s a show I truly hopes will form a somewhat cult following in years to come. To everyone reading this, keep spreading the word about black sails even though it’s long over. People need to watch this show.
One of the writers states that the last image of Madi and Silver, with them at that distant was to display the closest that those two will ever become, stating that madi did not believe silver. Silver did not seek the treasure in understanding it would empower people to continue the fight. At the end, Silver is an outcast such as how he was when the show started. Alone.
Also great video!
But Silver did seek for the treasure years later, he was looking for Flint's treasure in "Treasure Island"
@@CaptainDasttie - Flint told him in the finale that one day his life would feel hollow and he’d return. Nice touch in the writing.
One of the best shows of the 21st century. An intentionally fictional narrative which blends historical figures and classical fictional characters into a wild fantasy of action has no obligation or intent to give a morsel of acknowledgment of historical truths. As a legit historian, I just find it petty when folks insist on judging intentionally, honestly non-historical period shows based on real history. That is so exhausting and unnecessary. Might as well just Game of Thrones for not following European history correctly, it's nonsensical.
I absolutely loved how they mixed literature fiction with actual history (I'm a bit of a pirate nerd), giving it a good back story to the origin of Captain Flint and "Long John" Silver.
A very good analysis of the show! well done
I found the ending with Flint going to the plantation to be heaven. Everything was pale, Thomas was wearing white, and he even had to walk through gates. I think he died at the end without being obvious about it.
Really cool theory
Yeah the scene right after silver had a gun on him the birds flew away like they were startled from a gun shot..
I’m in the camp that James McGraw died on the island. But the ending worked both ways for me. Flint (the persona) died either way, which was the whole point of his character’s journey.
I personally prefer the Silver kills Flint ending then fabricates the story to make Maddie forgive him. Fits his character in Treasure Island more. Also they didn’t officially retcon anything. The writers themselves discussed this. They’re reasoning for things not lining up had more to do with the underlining implications of the story. A series about how narratives shape society and the power that comes with them. In Black Sails, and Treasure Island both stories have characters spinning narratives. Like look at Billy’s arc of inventing the narrative of John Silver. Then pair that with everything he said in Treasure Island. It begins to paint him as something of a master fabricator. Honestly, the only things we can say happened for sure are the events within A: The story of Treasure Island, and B: Black Sails. Everything else. How the map was made, how flint actually died. (Even If Flint died in the forest, they told everyone he went to savannah so of course the narrative stems there) Also on a side note about the pick your own ending: I don’t see it as a cop out. I actually think it’s much better. One of the reasons generally prequels suck is because there’s no ambiguity left. Nothing left to theorize or talk about. Only what happened. And if what happened sucks, then your equally fucked. Even if it’s awesome, your still kinda fucked. Red Dead Redemption 2 also had this level of ambiguity surrounding Dutch. At the end of the game, even though it ties directly into Red Dead 1, you don’t know why Dutch went insane and it’s left up to you to speculate. It keeps you in the story after it’s ended. The writer implies the reader infers. The pick your own ending of Black Sails is essentially the same thing. Like I’m rereading Treasure Island with the idea that what went down in Black Sails is exactly what happened and it completely redefines some of these characters in a really intriguing light. Maybe it’s an unpopular opinion, but that’s why I love the Black Sails ending and actually think it’s one of the better endings I’ve seen a TV show receive.
But on a separate note great video!! I really appreciate you making this because it’s given me a chance to talk about what’s honestly been my favorite show of the last few years that no one talks about
I know they didn't retcon anything. Another reviewer pointed it out so hence the disclaimer in the description. Also that's fine if you like ambiguity. I personally loathe it that's why I begged people not to let my opinions influence their own. So enjoy the book.
Movie Monarch sorry I hope I didn’t seem like I was trying to discredit your opinion or anything. I just really loved the story and everything it got at. It’s not a story I get to talk about very often cause of how criminally underrated it is
@@Striker163videos I get it. No worries. You're not the first to make the retcon comment and I doubt you'll be the last.
I enjoyed the ending they chose, it was sweet and touching. But feelings aside, I totally get what you’re saying.
I read the ending a bit differently. To me, it’s not necessarily pick your own ending, but a focus on the power of story, which all the main characters, especially Flint, had used to their advantage, no matter the ending, we know that this is all a temporary win for the pirates and the Jamaicans.
So while I can see someone not like one of the endings, I don’t think the choice is necessarily important.
"So while I can see someone not like one of the endings, I don’t think the choice is necessarily important."
Yet you made one. To focus on the power of the story. I would argue that's your bliss with the ending. It gives you comfort. And there's nothing wrong with that. True, yours is not one I presented in my analysis but it is an ending an audience member can pick given the context of the overall narrative. So...yeah. It matters.
Movie Monarch I meant with the, which ending is real, an explicitly told one that wraps up all nice and neat or the more morbid one that is what people believe based on the final scene between Silver and Flint.
I think looking at the power of that story is more important as it, no matter what, gives a bitter sweet ending for our characters who have a semblance of hope, but the audience already knows that story goes sour for them later on.
Just as the story Flint convinces those on the Walrus to dream big and for hope because of the Urga De Lima, Silver’s story weaved a story for Madi, and by extension, the audience to dream and hope for something better, there’s still that feeling that thing isn’t quite as it seems. A kernel of mistrust, that causes doubt. Is there issues with those two scenarios? Absolutely, but I think the writers wanted to circle back around to the first episode and focus on the theme throughout the show, the power of a good story. At the end of the day, we don’t know which, of either of those scenarios are true, but it both scenarios are a means to an end for a very temporary happiness, which seems to be the objective for most of the characters.
And I hope you don’t see this as me trying to shit on your opinion by any means. I very much enjoyed the video as a whole.
@@zacharybryant9881 I know you're not trying to shit on my opinion and I appreciate that. Just like I know you meant your stance to be confined between the two absolutes I presented. However, I have strong opinions loosely held. I concede that your stance is a valid option for the endings interpretation. You chose it. It is a choice. That is the power of storytelling. "The stories we want to believe survive." Jack said it himself. You are choosing to believe this about the writers intent and it's supported by the material. But it's still unconfirmed by the writers. That's what makes it your opinion.
And I get it. I respect the hell out of it. But I don't agree with it. I'm sorry. I really wish I did (because I think I would be a much happier person) but I don't. Agree to disagree.
I believe it’s a bit of both. You can pick whatever ending if you want. But your right it really doesn’t matter what the ending is. Because the story is effective in it of its own.
I agree with you. I don't think it's important to determine which of the two endings is the right one. The beauty of the ending is in the power of story telling, which was also a theme appearing throughout the whole series.
When silver confronted flint he said he understands why flint fought the war. When he thought he had lost Madi he just wanted to see the world burn. In other words flint doesn't care about the cause he just wants revenge. That's why he goes to the plantation at the end he no longer needs revenge.
Jack rackham is recorded in history as a coward and vane is a sadistic bastard. But who wrote these accounts? Like the young woman in Boston said "it's more interesting that way". Eleanor's grandmother explains how they use the pirates to extort money in Boston harbour. I think that what Jack is saying at the end is that what we know about pirates is what the British government wants us to believe. There be monsters.
I just remembered how much I liked this series so decided to search for an analysis, I was happy to find someone made one an hour ago. Great work, couldn't agree with you more on the ending.
Thanks! Yeah the ending was beautiful garbage but still garbage.
The reason the reintroduction of the pardons by Rogers works so well is that he directly confronts flint, trying to speak to his former self who was seeking the same outcome. When Flint rejects the pardons it's clear he almost entirely cut himself loose from the person he was at that time.
True, which is why I hate how the fandom treats Eleanor. Like...she really was Flint's equal. In creating that scenario, Eleanor's the one who forced Flint to talk to Rogers and you can tell she was hoping Roger's would make Flint see reason. Of course, she had no idea what Flint lost in Peter Ashe and Miranda because if she had I think Eleanor would have insisted in joining them at the table. As it is: that scene was beautiful. Loved the civilized coming together, opposite sides of the table, and declaring absolute war on one another. Probably one of my top 10 favorite moments in television. Pure perfection.
@@moviemonarch1617 I'm no ton season 4 yet, but as of season 3 I think considering them to be one and the same is a bit of a disservice to Flint. Flint was just a far FAR more self-aware person about how own nature, his motivations, and his flaws. He was so much more self-aware and he had the help of someone who was able to, and willing to, understand him and restrain him but also walk with him. Eleonore didn't really have that in the same way (at least, not as of season 3),
But yeah Eleonore doesn't really deserve all the hate. She's kind of an idiot at times, but she is a great character
I always saw the ending as Silver having sent along a bribe to free Thomas. He left him there till he sent Flint to collect him as it kept him where he knew he would be and thus able to use him to draw away Flint from interfering in any of his plans. Fantastic analysis of a criminally underrated show :)
Thank you. And if that's your bliss I am super happy/envious of you. Wish I could get there myself.
My favorite show of all time. Inspired me to study and work on some projects in the era. Idk if you're still around but I could listen to you analyze the show all day lol
So I got my father to watch this show after he started to take an interest in 18th century naval warfare and he absolutely loved it. I've seen it far too many times myself. We exchanged our theories after he had finished it and I told him about the "Silver might have killed Flint on skeleton island" theory but he struck me with a theory I never heard or seen. Flint, Silver, Billy and all the fictional characters from treasure island never existed in the first place but are rather Pirate "legends". John Silver was made into a legend, so was flint and the whole "legend" theme becomes very popular in the last two seasons. The woman in Boston further reinforces the whole legend theme as she seems only interested in Rackham and Vane (two pirates that existed historically) but only mentions Flint once as she asked if he had really stolen the treasure from him (which can be interpreted that Flint never found the treasure at all, Rackham did which could very well be the case)
But that's just a theory... A pirate theory!
I was completely captivated by this show, and I think it is as good, qualitatively speaking, as an show I've ever watched. The writing, the acting, the production were all top notch and I can hardly remember an episode that ever disappointed me, including the finale. Black Sail left me wanting so much more than the 5 seasons it offered and I'm hoping the producers can follow this with another series with the same level of quality....perhaps a western....about some a particular gang of train robbers?
ddland45 wait “5 seasons?” You must have misspoken... I seriously searched google, hoping I was wrong 😂😂😂
Philip Simmonds Lol, probably a typo but me too dude lol.
Just finished binging this in quarantine aha
I’d like to see Louis Lamour’s Walking Drum novel made into a series. To bring to life Moorish southern Spain, Constantinople, and the middle east of that era. Then the second book / sequel that Lamour never got to write (he died not long after Walking Drum) - where the main character goes to the very rich and powerful land of Hind (India). If someone could do Paulo Coelho’s The Alchemist, that would be cool too. And while I’m at it, Christoper Healy’s Series of books “A Hero’s Guide To Saving Your Kingdom”.
One of the creators is doing the Percy Jackson series. I'm so excited!
Ooh, I love the idea of Treasure Island starting with Silver looking for the treasure as a way to redeem himself in the eyes of the woman he loves.
Thank you. If anybody wants to take the idea and run with it in fanfiction...I won't stop them.
Great video! As i believe that the final message about the truth of stories goes along with whom which tells them, I think it's clear that Flint is dead. That last question from Madi to Silver gives out the hint..but story, true or not, another hidden theme of this saga is forgiveness between people, and that's Madis last action in the show (it would rather seems that way). Thanks for making this video, there's not much of this kind going around!
Personally, I love the ending. But I completely understand why people don’t like it, and that’s perfectly fine. I love that it gives us a choice while also making us question weather or not the ending we think happened was what actually happened. Art is interpretative and it should always be that way.
My headcanon for "Black Sails - Treasure Island" connection is that "Flint is alive" is the canon ending. He lived in captivity with his lover, but eventually Thomas died, which made McGraw switch back to his Flint persona. Unfortunately, time has taken toll on him and he wasn't able to get the treasure by himself. He draw the map, but died before he could get a ship and a crew.
If they'll ever make Black Sails version of Treasure Island, I suspect it will be Flint himself who will replace Billy Bones in the opening chapter. He didn't really have anyone loyal to him in the end of the show, so I don't see him giving the map to anyone.
Very well done on this. I loved the show, even before I started looking at it from a more analytical point of view. Thank you for making a well thought out analysis that was informative and, yes, quite entertaining.
Aw thanks!!
i actually really really loved the ending! i think that its SO cathartic for all these characters to have a happy ending after everything they've gone through!!! and i think calling flint a "mass murderer" is a bit of an over-simplification of his actions. flint in particular, i loved his ending. one of his main themes was him wanting to "return" this persona of captain flint to the sea (the scene b/w him and miranda where he tells her the story of his pirate name at peter ashe's house is one of my favorites in the whole series), and that's exactly the ending he gets. and to push my love of this ending even further, one of his largest weaknesses to overcome in the series is his shame; his ending has him confront this feeling SO wonderfully. i think they portray his absolute relief and happiness to see thomas again perfectly. like can you imagine being so openly and traumatically shamed by the world and then having to believe that your love for a person was what got them killed and destroyed y'all's lives for almost a decade? i honestly have never been so fulfilled by the ending of something in my life!!!!!
also, i think the ending is a really clever twist on the "bury your gays" trope (though probably not on purpose)
I'm happy you loved the ending, but I'm probably not the best person you want to engage with in this conversation.
However there is one point I really can't overlook and that's your assertion that, "one of [Flint's] largest weaknesses to overcome in the series is his shame." I don't agree with this at all. The definition of shame is, "a painful feeling of humiliation or distress caused by the consciousness of wrong or foolish behavior." What Flint felt with Thomas was never shame. Well maybe at first but Thomas convinced him quickly to cast it aside and they were happy. So when you write, "being so openly and traumatically shamed by the world and then having to believe that your love for a person was what got them killed and destroyed" I have to ask what your evidence is for this?
Because for my arguments I'm going to defer you to season 2 episode 5.
Flint's relationship with Thomas was the excuse NEVER the cause for Thomas' fate/supposed death. The only thing Flint felt ashamed of was not doing something to save Thomas when he had the chance. That he listened to Miranda when she begged him to leave England at the cost of abandoning Thomas.
That is it.
And I believe him because if you listen to the writers end blurb interviews, they state Flint's homosexual acts with Thomas were used as a political weapon against Thomas. It was an ad hominem. An easy way for the men of Whitehall to stop Thomas' proposal for Nassau and that's what really pisses Flint off because he knows it.
If Parliament had truly believed that what Thomas and Flint were doing was morally wrong, Flint could understand--not forgive!!--but he could wrap his head around it. The notion that these narrow minded assholes thought what they were doing was right.
But the men of Parliament didn't. They didn't care what a man did in his own bed, they cared that Thomas' political agenda towards the pirates was radical and gaining traction. Otherwise they would have broadcasted it. But if you pay attention to season one Mr. Guthrie believes Flint fled from England because Thomas' wife was having an affair with Flint. Not Flint being in love with Thomas. Their relationship wasn't exposed outside of Parliament at all. Probably because Thomas' father wanted it kept a secret for the sake of propriety but if Whitehall truly cared....why keep it under wraps? But that's a whole other kettle of fish.
My point being is its fallacious to believe Thomas and Flint had to keep their relationship a secret because of shame. I believe what you you think is shame is really Flint's cocktail of anger, grief, and self loathing that he didn't do something to help Thomas when he had the chance.
@Adam elle I don't think it was too much for media companies to allow to become popular because where's the profit in that? This aired on Starz so it's not like it was getting $ from conservative commercial sponsors like 'Boston Legal' was from ABC (who actively tried to cancel them by switching time and date slots without telling viewers). Anyway Starz doesn't operate like that. They had a financial incentive to see it do well. 'Black Sails' (IMHO) was just really overshadowed by a heavily criticized first season, and other shows like GoT, TWD, Vikings, and Stranger Things.
As for the maroons casting Flint as a martyr---I think that's a bit of a stretch considering how many slaves were themselves divided about the pirates. Like Madi's maroons were for the rebellion but Julius' sure as shit weren't. And Julius had the numbers. All he wanted was peace in his lifetime. Like...the slaves on Nassau were used as whipping boys for the pirates actions. Sure, Flint stood up for them, but would that one instance be enough to rally those slaves to bring that terrifying prospect to others? Especially when a leader they trust, almost implicitly, is telling them suing for peace is the best option? Probably not. Because remember Madi didn't rule the maroons--her mother and Julius did. And Julius made a very convincing argument to the Queen. Add that to the fact Madi herself almost died and (I don't know about you) but I could see it being enough to get the Queen to reconsider and think more like a mom.
"The queen even instantly sided with Flint over not exchanging the gems for Madi, they respect him as a leader."
Yes. As a leader. Flint had value to them being intimately familiar with British battle tactics on sea and on shore. So what use would fighting in his memory serve when NONE of them have any real exposure to the British army/navy? Like the opportunity cost doesn't add up when you look at the potential loss the maroons are likely to incur when they don't have Flint as a leader, versus what they would could gain. Why? Because they'd have to take into consideration everything working against them like: their lack of weapons, the lack of a brothel's intelligence they'll have in the Americas, lack of committed agitators willing to risk life and limb to stir up sympathy for a slave rebellion, deeply unfamiliar terrain, no organized army to speak of, no safe supply routes should England and Spain decide to team up together for the sake of mutual interests (such as: keeping their slaves in slavery), etc.
Like the pirates had a natural advantage in taking Nassau because it was their home. They knew it and the people living there, and even then it was still hard to retake. The Americas would be so much worse because there would be no home field advantage to draw from. Just the slaves themselves and a VERY few white influential sympathizers. That's it. Strategically everything would be working against them. Plus the lack of their two best military commanders: Flint & Blackbeard.
So...yeah. I think any leader could figure out it would do more harm than good to continue fighting without a plan, or a person well versed in the enemy to help plot a plan. But that's just me.
Long john did not have a happy ending, he lost everything and became alone
In my mind Flint 100% died. I'm basing this only on the fact that when the camera pans away from Flint and Silver birds can be heard flying away. So I figure Flint was shot and the birds got spooked and flew off.
I love this analysis so much. I love your ending too! I wanted Thomas to live too personally but Flint being killed by Silver would have been ideal. But I think the writers wanted to go with this idea of Flint choosing some sort of happiness and stop destroying anything in his path just to satisfy his loss and betrayal.
this series is still genuinely underrated to this day, it does so much really good dialogues, great action, perfect acting, the level of the series remains the same from start to finish.
Having just finished the series, this was a great video to remind myself of the scale of it all. To think of how far the characters came, especially John Silver...
This was a very well made anslysis and I really enjoyed hearing your thoughts on things, especially the LGBT+ aspects. Your info on the history surrounding that period was also very helpful. Thank you!
You're welcome. And thank you for your lovely comment! You would not believe how much the LGBTQIA+ stuff has gotten me into trouble from all sides.
People think because I'm criticizing the ending I'm anti-LGBT...when in fact I REALLY liked that aspect about Flint's character. I thought it brought so much more depth to his hatred for English rule and politics. Especially after Peter Ashe's betrayal.
But because I'm not fully 100% on board with him and Thomas living "happily ever after" in slavery either, I'm a sexist monster. When...NO. It's not fair to Thomas. Why should Thomas live and die in slavery when all he was "guilty" of was loving a man? A man who was fighting against slavery and is now joining into it because...Thomas is there?? It makes no sense!! Sure, Flint deserves to work and die in captivity. He's murdered way too many people not to have that coming to him, but Thomas? What did Thomas do to deserve captivity and back breaking labor without wages?
Also why should Thomas be a reward? We don't like it when women are rewards for men so why should men be any different?
That particular ending makes no sense to me, and I don't understand how anyone else could like it or think it's romantic. I just...don't.
One of my favorite shows ever. My favorite part was the ending, though. Still leaves me with chills. Inspired a book I'm writing.
great analysis, i absolutely love this series. so many good points made, and it never even occurred to me that contemporary politics could have influenced the ending (that which didn't settle well concerning my opinion of this masterpiece.)
I hope you don’t mind me unearthing this video two years after it was made, but I really appreciated your analysis and the thought you put into it, and as I’ve just wrapped up my first watch my emotions and thoughts are still very much alive and spinning, which is why I’d like to share my own two cents.
I will disregard the transition into Treasure Island argument, not only because I have not read it but also because I believe the stakes lay elsewhere.
I enjoyed watching the last episode. I am dissatisfied with both endings. I also think both endings needed to be portrayed.
Rationally, the logical and best conclusion would be that Silver killed Flint and spun a narrative that could have a chance to appease Madi, as doing otherwise would not only suggest a discrepancy with canon (which I don’t think is that important but that’s another can of worms) but also create a moral conundrum, as you have suggested. Having said so, I am absolutely convinced that portraying a scenario in which Flint lives and rejoins Thomas, even if fictional, was fundamental, for reasons that go well beyond the “bury your gays” trope, of which I believe the authors of the show were at least to some extent aware.
In episode 2 of season 1 Flint recounts a particular passage from the XI book of the Odyssey that I believe is crucial both in the understanding of Flint’s narrative and of the general meaning the show was trying to convey (It’s also very dear to me and I’m currently studying it at uni which makes it really hard not to info-dump).
The ghost of Teiresias tells Odysseus that he needs to pick up an oar and travel inland until he’ll find a wayfarer who’ll mistake it for a shovel, at which point he must plant the oar in the earth and sacrifice cattle to Poseidon. If he does so, the prophet promises to him he’ll find a peaceful death in his old age, far from the sea.
Anciently the sea was considered an harbinger of instability and turmoil, and of complete and all-encompassing oblivion, for the sea often reveals itself to be a cause of death and it leaves no trace after it has swallowed you whole. Earth, on the contrary, represents growth, stability, a life made possible and sustainable, far from the uncertainty and perils of the Great Blue, it symbolises rebirth.
In order to be reborn and to make sense of the horror he’s gone through, to make the reconnection with his roots possible, Odysseus must first forget his past as a war hero and leave the sea behind.
This theme resurfaces again in the series when James tells Miranda how he came about the name Flint and confesses he’s been hoping to return it to the sea for a long time.
In the last episode, when Flint and Silver return to Skeleton Island to retrieve the cache, particular attention is placed by the camera on two shovels laying in the boat. Arguably, the point where Flint stops to rest and confront Silver is also the point where the metaphorical oar is planted, and the chance of reuniting with Thomas is finally presented to him. I believe the plantation scene was used not only as a means of justifying Thomas’ presence, but also to establish the earth symbolism. What Silver says about a man waking from a nightmare and readjusting to life as he knew it before he closed his eyes also seems to suggest a parallel to Odysseus’ journey.
I am convinced James as a character could not be removed from the narrative until Flint’s mask, the embodiment of all the cruelty he had suffered and inflicted, of the war he had waged against the world and himself, was shed for good. Captain Flint needed to be killed in order for a man to be reborn, and you can’t kill a name with a gunshot. Wether Silver’s story truly happened or not is secondary, what matters is that it was there. I also think it ties in really neatly with the theme of stories generating other stories and shaping reality, as this particular element of Homer’s epic ended up giving birth to a whole new group of myths and literary works concerning Odysseus’ end, since it was never revealed in the main canon.
However, the thought of James surrendering to slavery in order to get the closure he needs is simply insufferable, I don’t know if the reason it was there is that the authors thought it was the only possible scenario in which Flint could get his Ithaca back, but it undoubtedly sours the whole ordeal, making his death at the hands of John somewhat preferable. I am not satisfied with either of the possibilities, so I chose to focus on the role these endings play in the story and as a story itself, but if somehow they had found a way to make both endings plausible and coherent I have no doubts on which one I would’ve chosen as the true one.
It's entirely possible the writers layered the story with Odysseus' considering all the other literary easter eggs that were in the show. It's why I left the clip of Flint lingering over La Galatea by Miguel de Cervantes because what's revealed in the episode mirrors the conflict of that book. Two men seemingly in love with the same woman but vowing to be friends no matter what. Only Black Sails turned it on its head when we discover it's Miranda and Flint who vow to stay friends because they both love Thomas. But Galatea also has roots in Greek mythology that, again, kinda parallel Flint's arch. That being Acis dies by the hands of Polyphemus but Galatea transforms her lover into a river. One could argue that Miranda transforms James into Flint after Thomas' supposed death by urging him to go after Thomas' father. But I could be overthinking it. Still it's a lot of fun and I'm glad you shared your insights. Especially considering how nicely they tie in with all the other Greek legends and myths sprinkled throughout the show.
This show truly is an underrated masterpiece. Sooo many beautiful monologues and goosebumps moments. And the deaths on the show.... I love a good death, and there were some truly stunning ones. I'm certain it'll remain high on my list of faves for a long time. (It's 2nd only to The Get Down. Another underrated masterpiece, that one)
I unfortunately don't have much of an analytical mind. I never even realized abt the choose your own ending thing, I just assumed Thomas in Savannah was real! But that's why I love videos like this so much! It adds another level for the next re-watch, and makes it all the more interesting. I think your video is great, and I especially enjoyed learning all the historical stuff. If you ever did another video on this show talking more about the "sub-plots, themes and hidden messages," I would watch the heck out of that too!
Aww thank you. Just reading that makes me want to do another one 🤔🤔🤔
I absolutely love black sails I have the box set and I must have watched it more times then I can count. Billy, Randel and Charlies are my favourites on the show.
In my headcanon Silver actually shot Flint at the ending, but he survived. Then he was taken to the plantation on Savannah, where Thomas was at one point but had since passed away (That's the reason Silver did not use Thomas whereabouts to stop Flint on Skeleton Island. If Thomas was alive and in Savannah, why wouldn't Silver just tell it to Flint?). So Flint, badly injured and without any possibility of escape, and without any motivation having lost everything and everyone, and being betrayed by the only friend he had left, turned to rum (something he actually does in the show S1E8). Billy escaped the Island via contrabandists or other pirates and eventually got to Savannah where he found Flint in a alcohol induced delirium and got the map from him. I guess that over the years Flint thought of escaping sometimes, and he planned to use the treasure in some way, so he draw the map early on, before he lost every strenght and spirit to escape. Silver told Madi the story about Flint reunion with Thomas in Savannah, telling, as his character used to, a half truth, and thus triying to lie to her about Flint's true fate and his betrayal of him. Madi eventually forgave him, though she never believed Silver story and that shadow kept flying over them and their relationships for years, until Silver grew tired of that living and thought of reclaim the treasure for him as his last adventure. Aaand then you have Treasure Island.
I just finished watching Black Sails on Netflix and I thoroughly enjoyed your analysis. I also enjoy our kindred spirit. I am most critical of the things I really love in the hopes for the always unattainable perfection. Unfortunately, that can be very frustrating and perplexing for some of the people I love. That being said, this show was as close to perfect in all aspects as you could expect from any!
I found this show by chance last week and watched it all in 3 days can honestly say it's one of the best iv seen would love to see a continued story
All I can recommend for that is either the book or the Eddie Izzard Treasure Island mini series. You may even see a familiar face in there.
I just found this 3 days ago too. I binged it as well. Spent my 2 days off from work in Nassau, so to speak. It was amazing. I visited Nassau in 1987 and it was wonderful to see a little of the back story of such a beautiful place.
It was such a deep, multi-layered show. Absolutely one of the greats. These were real people with real agendas. Throw pirate tropes out the window, this show changed the whole stereotypical pirate personality.
This is like the first analysis I've seen for this amazing show, and tho the ending was very underwhelming, the series as a whole was pretty damn great. Loved this video.
I've always found it especially difficult for any serial show to keep me hooked from start to finish, usually due to the showrunners running out of steam and wanting to do something else by the time of the last few seasons or just because of other unfortunate hits to the quality of the production or the writing or too many changes of critical actors.
But of all the different ones, that have come and gone before and after this one, and which also have incredible production values or writing or acting, this single show stands alone in one regard. It might not be perfect, but its strengths outshine its weaknesses (like historical realism in terms of guns, ships, ect. which I also usually care about a fair bit) to such a degree that I just...forgive it everything. Which is extremely odd for me, because I always try to remember that TV shows are just things, in the end, that are not 'real'. And yet...with this one it just completely blows past all of those rational arguments against it and it can do no wrong by me. In short, I think it's safe to say it has captured my heart fully - a feat I simply can't say any other show (no matter how good) has truly managed.
I agree. The ending doesn't ruin the show for me because it's so good everywhere else, I love it.
Really respect your take here, as strong as my impuse is to deny any criticism of this show I love so much haha
I understand completely.
I miss sitting down every morning and binging (about 3 ep. a day) this show two years ago. Wish we got more. Hell i would love to see a treasure island one season series.
Wow, you're name and your icon couldn't be any better for this if I had planned it myself. So I don't know if you know but back 2012 the BBC (at least I think it was the BBC) did a pretty decent mini series of 'Treasure Island' staring Eddie Izzard, Rupert Perry Jones, and Elijah Wood.
It's not perfect but if you haven't seen it you should def. check it out.
@@moviemonarch1617 yeah, personal views of izzard aside, he smashed the role of long john silver, completely changed himself to play him.
I watched the last episodes last night and the ending was very well done. Although it was a mix of history and fantasy both complemented each other very nicely albeit with a fair bit of poetic licence. The ending has now left open a window to make a new series based on the new version of Nassau and the characters who survived. I would love to see a new version of Treasure Island. All in all it was a thoroughly enjoyable and almost addictive series.
Nicely done, and that last comment to push past the first season really is the main hardship. One of my best friends wasn't able to get past it because of at first the Starz of it all, but really got to her was what happened to Max, she couldn't get past it.
I get that. It's why I can't watch "Outlander" anymore. I can't stomach rape. I was fortunate enough to be watching 'Black Sails' with a friend who warned me in advance it was coming so I was able to skip over it. But I had to watch it for this video, and seeing Max afterwards 'servicing' Vane's men was somehow worse. So I understand your friend's position and she has my sympathies.
I like to think the perfect ending would’ve been a close on and fade out of the stories of black sails and then a zoom in of a seaside village in England (or was it on the Thames) with a disclaimer of how many years laterr. Then a view of inside the Admiral Benbow Inn and tavern and then a close up of a blind man entering in. And young Jim looking up, seeing him. With a view from behind a man with a peg leg a block down the street looking toward the tavern.
I would've liked this as well but with a better motivation than 'the comfort will grow stale'
It's a very underrated series that probably didn't get much notice because the first season was underwhelming. It relied too much on sex and sadism and not enough on character and plot, but once they got over that, the show really took off.
In regards to the ending ... the city of Savannah didn't exist until 1733, more than a decade after the events of Black Sails. That means Flint couldn't have been sent to a plantation outside of Savannah. Yeah, yeah, the show mixes truth and fiction, and totally invents persons, places, and things, but ... that's a pretty good clue in my book that Silver and Rackham were lying about Flint's fate.
I totally think the ending was influenced by the Twitter mob, which is a shame. It makes total sense for Flint to die on that island, killed by Silver.
Toby Stephens was great in this role. I read an interview with him where he talked about being the Dad on Netflix's "Lost in Space" and how he had to do something lighter after playing Flint for 4 years.
What's great about this show, though, is that while the narrative is awesome, the real life events and people are just as interesting. And while some of the events aren't as dramatic, others are way more so than the show portrays.
I know Savannah didn't exist until 1733. So did the writers. It's why Max only refers to it as a plantation north of Spanish Florida. Robert Louis Stevenson's book, however, is set some time shortly after 1754. That's when Billy Bones is bequeathed Flint's map in Savannah Georgia.
When I first watched the finale I was baffled that Flint would willingly choose to abandon the war. But then I thought about how his death was depicted in Treasure Island, and considering that he died of alcohol related problems it kind of makes sense to think he made the choice to bail out and then regretted it for the rest of his life.
Well said.
It kinda made sense to me, because his pain and loss was what drove him to fight. When he saw Thomas, he must have lost a great deal of his grief. Besides since season 1 Flint`s dream was that of retiring into the countryside and leaving the sea behind.
I just finished binge watching after 2 weeks. It was excellent to say the least. The passion and emotions in each character was certainly deep. The writers had stunning scripts. Costumes were very true to form. Great series, one of the best I've seen in years!
Wow. Excellent information and analysis. I had no idea that Flynt's survival or that possibility could've been influenced by factors outside of the story.
Well I misspoke about Flint's survival. I remember reading an article saying the writers wanted him to survive, but the internet ate so I can't certify that was their intent. But thank you for your lovely words. I'm glad you liked the video.
Kinda shit that Woods Rogers, a man who was horribly scarred before he got anywhere near Nassau, is played by such a handsome, clean dude. Still, love this show.
I've given up on expecting historical accuracy of hygiene in media, it's just not going to happen. Ever. They're always going to push a romantic ideal that didn't exist down our throats for the sake of being hashtag relatable.
Thanks so much for covering this amazingly underrated show
I just discovered this series. WOW. It was so good! Your analysis is top notch. One of the best analyses I've watched about any show/movie. I agree about how they wrapped up on Flint but its ambiguity helped swallow it, though felt it weak comparative to the rest of the writing in the show. You helped me understand why the showrunners did what they did.
I recommend this show to everyone! I try to spread the word. It’s one of the most underrated series of all time!
The best show ever made. I get so unbelievably sad when I'm on the last episode. I just want more. To live in it. And see the treasure island show with these characters! God I wish that happened.
Came across this by accident...Best accident I have ever experienced. Cannot fault it and the acting, just wow!
You got yourself a sub. Phenomenal summary, I love the historical tidbits you included.
Treasure Island was probably the first book I ever read. I have loved pirates ever since.
this just proves that you are a person of culture and taste. welcome aboard!!
this video was really well done!
Thank you. It cost me half of my sanity in research and time so it means a lot to heart that.
@@moviemonarch1617 we can tell, definitely. don't know if you're only starting out on UA-cam but you'll go far!
Brilliant show and a great video breaking everything down. I thought season four fell off the rails a bit but it didn’t Game of Thrones itself to death.
let me tell you a story..bout a spaniard named Vazquez..
one of the best show i ever seen, beautiful story from start to finish. they perfectly captured the era it was set in.
I've been a lifelong James Bond afficionado and for the longest time my only contact with Toby Stephen's was as the main antagonist in "Die Another Day". I'm sure Toby did his best but it is a very lackluster and forgettable performance.
I just recently finished Black Sails and was absolutely mesmerized by Toby. It honestly took me a few episodes to place where I knew him from. He has a certain tendency to clench his jaw and show his lower teeth when he conveys anger that I had seen somewhere before.
Now his performance on Black Sails and his portrayal of Gustav Graves is so starkly different it should be studied. I understand one is a movie and one is a series but even if any one episode is held against his portrayal in the movie it is glaringly different.
Toby Stephen's absolutely blew me away as Capt Flint. Bravo!
Thanks, I had the same delusion watching the last episode. An incongruent end for a great character. Anyway, it's a masterpiece, worth to be seen!
Yeah the ending didn't sit well with me either. I vowed to myself that if they every create a spinoff or sequel to the show, say treasure island itself, I wouldn't watch it, but now I'm rewatching the entire show because there is literally nothing good coming out right now.
This was such good analysis and exactly what I need to listen to after finishing the show. I do think the ending is actually a lot bleaker than it would at first seem, and that's exactly what the creators intended. I read Flint's ending as ambiguous and Silver's desire for comfort over revolution realistic. I appreciate you saying the "happy ending" for Flint isn't actually very happy at all. Spending the rest of his life as an indentured servant on a plantation in Georgia? Not convinced this would be good even if it did happen (which I don't think it did fwiw). An actual idealistic/optimistic ending would have had the maroons and pirates joining together in radical abolitionist and anti-imperial solidarity that was ongoing and strong. Historically, as you point out, that just did not happen. Abolitionist revolutions in the New World were difficult to sustain, though the Maroons probably did better than most groups. Jamaican maroons were also able to hold on to autonomy longer than maroons in any other part of the New World I believe. Anyways, I thought the ending where imperial forces got the better end of compromise, and counterculture insurgency still remained in some form in revolt and piracy was definitely realistic. Silver was no revolutionary, he loved Madi, but he did not love her war. I assumed she still loved him but never fully forgave him...I love your idea of him trying to spend his life making it up to her. Anyways, I like this analysis a lot...even parts I disagreed with. :)
I sympathise with frustration over the ending. I do think it's well done, partly because the ending is the very thing that makes it so I can't leave the show alone. The show says, people believe what they want to believe/choose your ending, and for me at least, I don't want to believe either version. Flint killed and his death covered up as well as the revolution of the Maroons dashed forever? Horrible! Flint ALIVE, a person who WILLINGLY gave up that revolution and submitted himself to chains to be with a person who may not even recognize him? And Madi forgiving Silver for either of these things? That's WORSE. I've never before seen such a fucking tragic and bitter "happily ever after"
THANK YOU!!! OMG!!! You are the first fucking person to comment on my video who has ever fucking got it!!!
I am so sorry if my expletives seem out of place, but I have been trying to explain this to EVERYBODY and nobody gets it. You are the first to see it without needing an explanation. You have made my month. Seriously. THANK. YOU.
I never got the impression that there was any sort of happily ever after. Silver has entirely alienated Madi as a result of his actions in the forest, with Flint, and then (seemingly) suddenly not giving AF about the treasure. Then again, Silver is the greyest of grey characters - he purposefully has no backstory (writers commented on this themselves), he's always lying and spinning/twisting for his own advantage. I'm sure romantics hoped he'd at least have a different reaction with Madi, but it would have been out of character. Maybe they reconcile to some degree, as she does seem to be the wife referred to in Treasure Island, but I can't imagine they had many happy times. He may have cared for her, but she was always a means to an end for Silver.
As for Flint... Flint is dead. James is left, but he's still broken. I don't know why Thomas wouldn't recognize him physically. Maybe as a person, who he'd become, I can believe that. But that would be the case with a matter of time and distance anyhow.
Regardless, Jack says it - "a story is true; a story is untrue. As time extends, it matters less and less."
@@moviemonarch1617 Why does all fantasy need blissful happy ever afters? If you know ANYTHING about treasure island then you know that Flint and Silver can never end a prequel seeing eye to eye. You know the gold can never actually be recovered. You know Silver and Madi don't end up together.
@@branthall1787 I wouldn't call Black Sails fantasy and I don't believe every fantasy story tries to have a happily ever after ending. Certainly, many try for satisfactory endings, but that's different and not uncommon for every genre ever.
As for Silver and Madi not ending up together, I have to question what book you read because Treasure Island does mention Long John being married to a woman of color. So...yeah.
@@moviemonarch1617 "I wouldn't call a prequel to a fantasy novel fantasy"
Well you would, by definition, be wrong. Black sails is about 1% actual, tangible, timelined history and 99% fantasy.
Your video was sooo good that forced me to write down first comment in a few years. Great work.
One of the best shows I've seen, the acting role set, settings, cinematography all spectacular
I rather think that after Captain Flint's speech he was killed by Long John Silver and when Flint was bleeding to death he had some type of hallucination where he saw how it would be like to be reunited with Thomas if somehow he was alive, similar to what happened when he dreamed of Miranda when she was already dead (IMO that would have been a better ending for the story and would fit more with Long John Silver the "Treasure Island" who doesn't mind kidnapping a child to achieve his goal) but still Flint ending with Thomas and both being alive fits perfectly into Treasure Island, Flint was known but he becomes a slave and ends up being another unknown slave and the other pirates think he's dead, anyways great video and that's why I probably didn't liked the end since I prefer to have one clear ending so you can understand everything, I don't like to be hyped for Flint's slaves revolution to takeover Nassau for then Flint agreeing to become a slave when he found out Thomas was alive, I would liked an ending where Flint found Thomas is alive and being a slave then Flint's howsoever rescue Thomas and the series ends with both going elsewhere becoming anonymous persons again
I wouldn't have minded that either
OMG YES!! You have just put into words my exact feelings of rage for Flint's ending!! HOW would anyone interpret his reunion with Thomas as a happy satisfying ending is BEYOND me. This man spent literal YEARS fighting the British Empire only to in the end literally enslave himself to that empire? I'm not buying it. Also the very concept of "humane slavery" disturbingly undermines a good 56% of the show's own theme.
I dislike the bury your gays as much as the next person, but narratively speaking resurrecting the character whose death was the main motivation of your protagonist is not a particularly smart move. Although I admit, it was probably the only way to get Flint to give up the fight. Still, why the hell could they not but Thomas out of slavery instead of committing Flint to the same fate? Like, ugh????!!!??
I also absolutely agree with your point that Thomas would not still be in love with this version of Flint. SO much water has been under the bridge, and Flint is literally not the man Thomas knew anymore. I have literally thought the same exact thing upon finishing the series, and never really found anyone else to share this sentiment before.
Really great analysis, I thoroughly enjoyed it!
Agree with the really great analysis as well. And Maven's corrections. I didn't feel betrayed by the ending. I thought (or bought, really) they began softening Flint even before the Maroons joined the cause. Even the idea that he would take LJS as his equal showed a softening of his armor. Anyway, my eyes are opened with these possibilities. The last season's storylines seemed rushed. It could've easily been doubled to explore these better possibilities. Still, they artistically wove the "They tell their children the world is full of monsters..." to, "You've only read what I want you to know about me..." to, a young girl sharing sensational pirate fables to Jack, and to his ambiguous series-ending monologue. Like or hate it, they've been consistent with it.
And godammit better than Tyron's, "There's nothing in the world more powerful than a good story," speech. NO, I"M NOT OVER IT!
You want to know my theory on why they kept Thomas enslaved instead of busting him out? It's fucked up but it falls within Flint and Silver's characters at that stage of the war.
Silver needs Flint to remain out of circulation for Madi to give up the fight, right? Right (even though it's wrong and smacks of white savior bullshit). Well what better way to do that than get Flint to agree to slavery with Thomas.
But why not just bust Thomas out? Easy. Flint doesn't benefit from Thomas being free. Not just yet. Because if Thomas was free first thing he'd want to know is what's happened since he's been on the other side of the world in isolation and chains.
Imagine how grieved he would be if word were to get back to him that Flint killed his father, encouraged Miranda's rage, which directly led to her death, burned Carolina to the ground to fulfill her desires for revenge, and then went against Nassau's governor who was just trying to carry on Thomas' original plan for the place all because of him. Only to try do something good for selfish reasons only to back track on it because of what this mad man imagines to be love?
By becoming Flint James abandoned everything Thomas lived, fought, and was eventually enslaved for. The only chance Flint has to keep Thomas is if he keeps Thomas there. If you get what I'm saying. Which is fucking evil and not love at all. But...I can see Flint agreeing to it. And I can see Silver offering it. Because in the end they're not good guys. At all.
I had NEVER heard of this show. Was about to cancel my Starz trial on Amazon Prime and saw it's thumbnail. Thought, bah. Let's give it a shot. I think it took one or two episodes, but I was totally hooked. Binged watch the entire thing over the last 2 weeks. After having finished it it's seriously it's probably one of my favorite shows. And talk about a real proper subversion of your expectations with the ending. I hated the ending, but as it unfolded I accepted it. It took me a few minutes. But at least it didn't take me a day, a week or a year.
Oh? So the show writers confirm that Flint was truly alive? The convenience of having already found the location before the Spanish invasion, and Flint's line "You'll never be able to craft a story good enough for her to believe you.". Really made me think that he ended up killing Flint. So I agree with Movie Monarch's take on the 'better' ending.
Well if you look in my description you'll find I admit that I misspoke when I said the writers confirmed that Flint living was the official ending. I think I was watching an interview of the cast and crew and misremembered one of them saying they HOPED that was the real ending, but the writers have never confirmed or denied it.
This is one of the very few shows that I actually own. Probably my favorite since "Profit" in 1996 which was about a decade ahead of its time.
Toby Stephens should have won every award available to him, as should the writers, special effects team, and at least a few of the supporting cast. It was significantly better than any show contemporary with it, and probably a top 10 all times series comparable in quality to the likes of "The Wire", "Justified", or "Breaking Bad".
I always warn folks who ask about it that it starts slowly. It really doesn't pace well for the first 6-7 episodes. But after that, it's amazing for the rest of the show. The investment of slogging through the beginning of the series is worth the remaining 30ish episodes.
"Toby Stephens should have won every award available to him"
Hard agree.
"It was significantly better than any show contemporary with it, and probably a top 10 all times series"
Agreed. Although I would have to add M*A*S*H onto that list because the ending was perfect.
"I always warn folks who ask about it that it starts slowly. It really doesn't pace well for the first 6-7 episodes. But after that, it's amazing for the rest of the show."
Some of the best TV shows take their time with the first season. It's there to establish characters and the world, while second season plays with them. It happened in "Buffy", "Hannibal", and "Community" so I knew it was coming in "Black Sails." Well...that and I read the book so I knew what was coming I just didn't know how.
Because of your comment I'm going to check out Justified and Profit. Would like some more recommendations. You seem to have good taste :)
@@deltagamma1442 "House" - which you've probably already seen. "Luther" - which you might not have. Both shows maintained a decent quality for the whole run, which is sadly not the case quite often. "Mr. Robot" for example, started out great, but lost steam through becoming enamored with its own cleverness, and ended up mediocre.
OMG, I had to check your comment twice lol, I ha e the same top series BB, The Wire, and Justified!! Justified IMO was so fricken good, especially the ending, top 3 endings ever to me. I have BS in my top 6, with MASH at number 1. I know MASH is a different animal, but it has enough drama to make my all time favorite, again IMHO. , but off topic, yes Black Sails was AWESOME, and Tobey Stephens deserved every award he could have been able to.
i love how literally everyone agrees that the first season is just something you've got to endure to get to the really good stuff
It's actually a trend I've been noticing for a while now. I think it's a side effect of there being one massive story arc that extends over multiple seasons as opposed to one. Examples include: 'Avatar the Last Airbender', 'GoT', 'She-Ra', 'Hannibal'. The first seasons of all of these shows are, arguably, good but were overshadowed by later seasons because the emotional payoff was placed on the VERY last episode of said first season.
Take my examples.
Fans remember the attack of the North Pole, Ned Stark's execution, the battle of Brightmoon, and Will Graham's arrest. But the lead up to those things takes all season. And while it's either cathartic or devastating these events create a bigger question that's yet to be answered. One that fans desperately need to know of what happens next?
Which is great but a gamble. People are not known for their long attention spans. But see, my theory is that's it worth it. For big overacting plots the first season exists to (primarily) establish the cast of characters. Things like who they are, what they're like (personalities), what motivates them, and how they interact with others. If done right, it gives the audience a reason to care enough to continue on until the plot eventually kicks in (read: the finale).
Thus when the second season airs it's usually MUCH better than the first because the writers have already done the work in establishing character dynamics. Now they get to play with them. Thus giving the illusion that the first season was kinda slow. Which, in comparison, it was. But it's absolutely critical if you want a show that just get's better and better with every season like 'Black Sails' did.
Sorry I rambled at you...
Which is strange because I really like season 1 too
As someone who just finished the series, I think S1 was pretty good but S2 was my absolute favourite. Those final 2 episodes were just something different. I liked the rest a lot too but the standout moment was the end of season 2
@@britishnerd3919 I’m on season 3 and I don’t get how people say it’s bad season 1 was amazing it was slow but my attention was grasped every second the dialogue and charceetrs and world were amazing season 2 was a masterpiece and so far seaosn 3 has been really good I can’t wait to finish this show
I love season 1 tbh
Literally just finished binging the series. The ending... As I was watching, thought maybe they intentionally muted the sound of the gunshot as the birds fly away abruptly and the men move to a change in the air. Flint had just been killed.
At 1 point Flint was asked by Silver if he could have Thomas back, have some semblance of a life, would he give up the bigger causes for it and Flint responded that he honestly wasn't sure but it could be very likely. So it's not that farfetched that especially after Flint sees how the cause starts to lose fervour chiefly among Silver who at that time had the majority of the loyalty of the fighting force, and if Silver walked away being a pirate king and legend then most likely much of the pirates would've gave up the war too. Yes like Rackham said, Flint had some diehard supporters like Maddy but it wouldn't have been enough alone so Flint conceded his revolution especially after learning that Thomas was alive which was all the more reason for him to yield. Billy wasn't marooned in place of Ben Gunn cause Ben was marooned 3 years before the events of Treasure Island sailing with a whole different crew at that point so Billy's time on the island is just added in the prequel since you never hear about that in the book
"Flint was asked by Silver if he could have Thomas back, have some semblance of a life, would he give up the bigger causes for it and Flint responded that he honestly wasn't sure but it could be very likely."
You may want to revisit season 4 episode 4 because that is NOT how that conversation went down. Flint responded with 'I think if [Thomas] knew how close we were to the victory he gave his life to achieve he wouldn't want me to.' Silver responded with 'Yeah, but that's not what I asked' and then detailed how maybe it was possible that Thomas' dad didn't kill Thomas but cast him out and Flint responded with 'well he didn't' and gave Silver a look that said 'drop it' right as the doors to the fort opened allowing the exchange of prisoners.
So...while it may not be farfetched that Flint would drop out of the cause it is a bit much to ask that Thomas would be okay with James once he finds out all the blood that's on Flint's hands. Blood (including his father's and most of Charlestown) that Flint spilled in Thomas' name. And for what? Silver said when he thought Madi was dead he understood, for the first time, what Flint must have gone through. "The need to make sense of the loss...to exalt her memory with battles." Battles only matter if the war is won. Churchill was right when he said "history is written by the victors". A concept Flint clearly understands when he talks to Silver in the last episode. (Read: the 'England paints the world in shadows' speech.)
Thus the ending (where Flint abandoned the cause) makes those battles/deaths meaningless. Why? Because England is still free to paint POC and LGBTQIA+ people as something subhuman.
And if Flint is smart enough to understand this, what makes you think Thomas wouldn't? That he wouldn't be horrified at the lengths his former lover went to ALL in Thomas' name? Then KNOWING that the only reason he's is still a slave is because he's being used to keep Flint in check? That Flint has a better chance at convincing him he's still worthy of love when Thomas has no freedom or resources to run away?
That is why I don't buy into that particular ending.
As for your Billy/Ben Gunn thing, you may have a point. I'm still not satisfied because now I'm thinking of Billy hitching a ride with the crew who abandons Ben Gunn.
"Alright Ben, you failed to help us find the treasure. We put it to a vote and we're abandoning you here."
"Oy," Billy shouts from the shores. "Can I come with you?"
"Who's this bloke?"
"My name's Billy Bones. I've been here for a REALLY long time."
The pirates stroke their chins. "Do you know where the treasure is?"
Billy goes shifty eyed. "No~o."
"Damn! All right, climb aboard you tall weirdo."
"Huzzah!"
As Billy splashes into the launch, Ben looks on forlornly. "Before you leave can I have some cheese? Fellas? Fellas!"
@@moviemonarch1617 Love has made people overlook a lot of things in history and fiction. It doesn't make sense to you sure but it just is what it is and no I do remember the episode, I get what you're saying but what I said holds water
@@BmoreCelt It may hold water with you but it's not convincing me, and that's fine. You don't have to. We can agree to disagree.
I also think the ending was bad and agree with you. Set up for this big war and nothing happens. Felt extremely rushed. First 3 seasons were excellent but season 4 turned into some weird romance drama. Long monologues with no payoffs.
Excellent analysis - and a great intro to the show!
Haha. Thanks.
I just finished this last night, such a great show
Best show I've seen. Watch this if the last few seasons of GoT disappointing you. Thanks for the analysis! I like to think of it as a good story apart from the actual history and the book (the show is very loose with the history anyway). To me Flint lived because Flint needed to die, become McGraw again, as a symbol of the end of strife. When I was watching I did not think about the LGTBQ+ in the same way, in the setting of the show I don't think it's a statement as we perceive it now, pirates fuck what they want to.
I have to say... this is an excellent analysis. And the mind who made the video speaks very well, almost like she's from another age.
Ohh mate, not many shows get me hyped for a re-watch. but Black Sails ooohhhh it's just so good
Best show ever, tied with Supernatural for me, my wife is watching it now and cant get enough, Covid 19 binge watching. Im watching for second time and for those of you that havent done a second watch, just two words, DO IT, you wont regret. We(wife and I) are stagehands in the Denver/Boulder area and can say that the sets, costumes, props, acting, music, sound, editing, and overall production value are second to none. Yes, it GOT production, lol, although I think they should share the thro...helm. I see much talk of happy ending and Treasure Island. Is there a spinoff or a RLS run coming? If anywhere near a good as this, I say Yo Ho Hoe and a bottle of rum! Thank you cast and crew, Oscar worthy one and all. Thank you writers for your work. This will live on for many decades aye even centuries. Treasure! Argghh!!
"Is there a spinoff or a RLS run coming?"
Not to my limited knowledge, no. Jon Steinberg has gone on record with a 'never say never' attitude towards a sequel, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen any time soon. However, if you're interested, there was a miniseries of 'Treasure Island' made back in 2012 that's pretty good. Not terribly loyal to the book, but what it adds and changes make sense. Or do in my opinion. It stars Eddie Izzard and has a few other very familiar faces.
A very good analyses of a very good show!
I enjoyed watching Black Sails, mostly because of the wonderfully written and played characters. That to me was the backbone of the show. As you mentioned, the dialogues were already very strong and then they were brought to life perfectly by the actors, that was refreshing to watch.
My one gripe I have with the show is that they deployed plot twists a little bit too liberally. Yes, this makes for an exciting and unpredictable spectable, but it started to bother me that NO plan or future came to be as it was so beautifully explained by the actors. I'm all for a good twist, but only if it actually serves the story. There are HOURS of (good) dialogue that are in my eyes a bit wasted as they lead nowhere or there contents are simply ignored later on. A good example of this was the "emancipation" of Silver. Silver was at the verge of finally breaking loose, when he gets distracted and all of it just fades away into the next new plot. There are SO much of these unsatisfied plots that fade away into the next one, it took my focus away from the story and by season 3 i was no longer invested in any of the plans or schemes brought forward, since they wouldn't go anywhere anyway.
Though this would be a major show stopper for most series, Black Sails makes up for it with the well built, strong characters and the portrayels there of. Also it's production quality is so high, it rivals the very best.
Thank you for your lovely comment.
I'm going to be honest, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by 'the emancipation of Silver'. I think this is reference to season 2 and Silver almost getting the treasure but, please, correct me if I'm wrong.
Also, I'm curious, how do you define 'plot twists' because I think we have differing parameters. For example: Eleanor's arrest was a plot twist. The writers spent a good amount of time teasing the audience with Eleanor and Charles having a civil war on Nassau. Especially after Max visits her and tells Jack: "I've seen what Eleanor can do when she is feeling ambitious and I've seen what she can destroy when she is angry...[this Eleanor is] something else entirely." Then we see Jack and Max's reaction to Eleanor mad-dogging them from the window, and that was set up. That was SUCH good set up. So for it to end with Eleanor's arrest was a massive twist (not to mention one hell of a cliffhanger for those of us who actually really liked Eleanor).
So, again, I'm curious what you thought was a twist and why.
@@moviemonarch1617 With the emancipation of Silver I meant his breaking out of Flint's shadow. It's basically his entire arc. Going from being captured by Flint to slowly gaining his trust and eventually rising as high and maybe even above him.
But there is a lot of build-up towards Flint really breaking free and killing Flint and then when that moment arrives, it's interupted and they are simply friends again because the situation demands it.
That is an example of whay I mean by dedicating al lot of time and effort into a specific plot-move and then twisting the plot to go in an unforseen direction.
That can be a really cool trick, but the problem I found is that they did this too often, especially in seasons 3 and 4. It caused me to no longer care for any of the plans and shemes they were setting up, because it would end up a different way anyway, so why bother giving attention to it.
The problem isn't the writing. All of the build-ups and twists were written very well and they never went in an unbelievable direction, it's just that by season 3 it was obvious that with every plan they made, some crazy twist would come along and that spoiled the surprise a bit and made me lose focus in some of the storylines.
But again, this is my personal nitpicking of an awesome show! I loved it and would very much recommend it to other people too.
That one death scene in season 4, yea, that was probably the most gruesome thing I've ever seen on television. It was fucking amazing. The whole way that scene played out, at first I was like "oh, that doesn't look so bad.." then he comes up and I wonder "why is he all shredded?".. then they show you. My favorite thing about it though is that, while not how that man saw is end historically, it was a way that many men did, and I don't think I've ever seen it portrayed before, and if I have, it certainly wasn't done that well. This show was such a 10 out of 10, I'm upset it took me so long to find it. Rare to see a show start this good, and literally get better every season until it has an almost perfect ending, and then you can read a 150 y.o. book to hear what happens next lol.
EDIT: I had no idea people didn't like the first season, I was hooked from the start. The quality of writing, and elevation of narrative above all else was so refreshing to me. I think it may be due to the tv shows we've had in recent years, and their tendency to fall apart shortly after starting. It definitely left me craving something better, and that had depth, and Black Sails has that in spades.
The final scene of Rackham bringing “Mark” Mary Reed on board was foreshadowing his known fate. Historically he didn’t live much longer after that.
It needs be said that this show is also funny as shut. There're scenes and dialogues that just makes you laugh. Some shows are so serious that they forgot to actually entertain the watchers.
well said
Great analysis! One of my favourite shows ever, shame it didn't have more seasons :(.
Well the title says “analysis,” and by God this was an analysis.
❤️😎
The story was a good pirate story, (minus some elements weaker), the actors were well-casted and acted very well, the characters are mainly good and lovable (I hate only a few of them), you want to see them win, and feel genuine fear or sadness when they are in trouble, plus some of them have a very good alchemy between one another. I hated the fact that, quote : "Black Sails, in some ways, is designed to be a punk series", meaning it raises good point about the problems in our society, but proposes nothing in return. Pirates are just robbers who feed an olicarchy on the island, which allows said oligarchy to make big profits on their backs. They do not fight to make a better society, they just fight for the place, and to control the trade. Plus, they do not sow, build or raise families on the island, they just live like squatters and look for gold. In conclusion, I have no problems with the series itself, but with it's subtext.
It may be an unpopular opinion, but season 1 has something special too. It has a raw realism that the other seasons haven't, specially since season 3. I love all the show but for me, the first two seasons are the heart and soul of the black sails.
I respect that. For me, personally, I felt like the first season was largely set up. It established who these characters are, their relationships to each other and Nassau, and gave us a glimpse of their motivations for the Urca gold. The second season then took that foundation and shook it up.
One of the best shows ever created!
Good God you have presented a ton of history into this! I for one never read treasure island. And I never put the correlation between John Silver and Long John Silver until Billy Bones stated it in the show. Which gave me goosebumps and left me with that Ho!y $hit moment. Flint I loved most of 1st season. By Second season I began to dislike him. I understood his motives but I my self wouldn't want anything to do with him it I was in that world. Jack Rackam I wasn't that much of a fan at first but man is that character enjoyable! I was turned onto this show buy a tabletop wargame called Blood and Plunder. This show is amazing and their are several episodes that are emotionally difficult to wade through. Excellent over view!
Aw thank you! I recommend reading "Treasure Island". It's very episodic in nature and was meant to be enjoyed by 12 year old boys. Plus it'll give you an idea of where they got the name "McGraw" from.
The 2nd season is where I fell in love with Flint. I know not everybody is expected to feel that way but honestly I adore that ending so much. Miranda Barlow was phenomenal in her last minutes. Just...brilliant! The ticking clock is my favorite.
One of the few shows where I loved every character for different reasons.
This is a great analysis. Thank you for sharing!
Unfortunately European history shows us how often the violent offender does indeed receive reward.
Great piece! I especially loved the very subtle rewrite towards the end. Eloquently executed!
That was the absolute best overview of the ending of that show I have ever seen
yeah flint lives was a bad idea just from the shows story line(and treasure island) yes he is the main character and all that u wanna see him happy but he was a monster a killer,sinner,betrayer,pirate he did all theses awful things like he said u can't go back it will become stale after all hes done
I recently watched your video and was thinking about the things you said about the ending. How Madi couldn't have forgiven Silver after betraying her, how they used sending Silver to be a slave so they wouldn't end up with a kill the gays thing and how it would have been better for Flint to have died and how Flint was terrible boyfriend material because of the awful things he did.
And after thinking a bit on what you said it the ending actually made more sense to me than before. I mean, we can all agree Flint has done some awful things even to his crew (like taunting Dufresne to be captain again and leading them into the storm), and that a lot of times people wanted to punish him, ban him from the crew, depose him, even what he did to Silverton, he was an asshole but he definitely wasn't a thief. So maybe the only way for Madi to trust him again and for Silver to be himself, to trust that he would not be manipulated again by someone he was so scared of was to send him away. But also he probably believe Flint should be punished for the awful things he did. So he sent him to the plantation, he could have sent him anywhere, but to feel better about himself Silver was graceful enough to sent him where he knew Thomas was, to be with someone he loved even if it was in a terrible condition. And also, when they first find each other Thomas doesn't know about anything Flint did, that first and beautiful moment we saw was just two lovers reconecting, but also i feel like Thomas is a good and merciful person, even more after living such an awful life for so many years, so who knows how their relationship progressed after.
Now, yeah, they could have killed Flint, but to such awful things he did, I don't think it would have been enough.
You're entitled to whatever opinion gives you the most comfort, but I personally don't approve of the idea that people are rewards or punishments. Thomas is being kept a slave as a reward for Flint and I don't condone that--I can't.
Just finished this show and it’s easily top 5 for me. So incredible
I like the ending :(
That's fine. Nobody here is saying you have to feel like me. :)
Flint didn't really care about the war, the freedom of Nassau and the pirates, he was broken and had nothing to lose and that makes a man dangerous as silver said in their final onscreen moments.
I love watching Black Sails ..I think the writing and acting was stellar
So much things I want to talk about this serie too haha
But I'll give my 2 cents for the dialogues that is alike: even though some people are very different, sometime in life because of external favors they can be the same person. And that means alot, Like Eleanor / Flint / Vane / Silver doing similar things even disapproving when others do.
Man I like this serie and will watch again