Really enjoy this podcast. It’s becoming my go-to that I listen to first. Probably because you guys are in my age wheelhouse lol, but more importantly, seem like good guys. Thanks for your hard work in providing content with value.
I just bought 3 models of the Joola Gen 3 paddle: Hyperion, Perseus, and Scorpeus (16mm). My intention was to compare the weight, shape, and swing feel in person before deciding which one to keep. (I live in a small town with no shops or clubs that demo Joola paddles.) I've noticed a huge difference between the three paddles in terms of grit. The Scorpeus feels very smooth, almost no grit at all. The Hyperion feels quite gritty. The Perseus is somewhere between the two. And the grit is also inconsistent on each paddle. This is most noticeable on the Hyperion, where one side of the face is much grittier than the other. And, on the side that has more grit, there's a 2-inch strip toward the left edge that is smooth with almost no grit. Not sure what to do here. I'm leaning toward returning these, but 1) I'm not sure if Joola will allow it for this reason (they aren't known for great customer service), and 2) I'm not confident the next ones will be better, given the obvious QC issues.
What do you think about the skins which are coming out? Do you think if they bring back RPM/spin back to your paddle Would you use it and do you think is this the future?
So I just played a few relaxed games with a brand new 16mm Perseus. I noticed ridiculous spin on drives, but the power was much more noticeable on volleys/counters, etc.. I also felt I could hit really nice drives without swinging very hard. All that being said, how much do you think the incoming velocity has to do with the power return? Also, do you think these paddles will make a bigger difference for those who already have lots of power and swing speed, or those who don't have that much power to begin with? My initial feeling is it really helps in that intermediate range more than the high-end.
Do you think we are going to see a ban on certain power paddles in pro tournaments and have pros use gen 1/2 paddles sort of like how baseball uses wooden bats in the MLB? What are your thoughts on this.
Question- with “power paddles” now including the Gearbox as well as the new Joolas (and possibly new Vatic Oni?,) do you think that a new category should be opened to describe a paddle? Now we have power/ control/ and all-court. Should we have power+ added? Will the other brands have to include one of these to stay relevant, whether or not it’s good for the game?
John, any thoughts on durability of the foam to core contact point? Seems the constant flex from the core would separate the foam from the honeycomb. Just a thought.
Nerd question about the difference in power between Generations of paddles that could be framed a couple of different ways... What is the exit velocity difference for same brand paddles with the same swingweight but different tech? Or - What is the swingweight difference in order to achieve the same exit velocity or would your serve velocity be a comparable metric? My current paddle is a R3.16 and I would like some more power mainly for singles, but I'm still a control player overall. I'm considering the Huarache-X Control, Volair M2F, or maybe even the Ronbus FX depending on what they bring.
For the wattage test for maneuverability - will the calculation have to take into account limb lengths and leverages? You had mentioned different muscles needing to be used. A longer arm would surely require more energy for the same amount of movement in the same amount of time.
Hi John. I'd like to hear your thoughts/ratings on the Coretek Alpha paddle if you've had the chance to hit with it. It's honeycomb core is foam filled and presumably gives it Gen. 3 levels power and pop while still being a 'legal' paddle. It's a bargain at just $125, so I went ahead and bought one and am really starting to enjoy playing with it. Because the foam filling, the paddle is a bit on the heavy side out of the box (~8.5 oz.), but it's also head heavy with the swing weight of 127, which certainly limits it's appeal to fewer players. I've customized mine by adding 3 grams of weight to base of the handle and 1.5 grams at about 4:30 & 7:30 to increase the sweet spot and plow through while lowering the swing weight/balance point. Like the Gearbox and Joola Gen. 3 paddles it has a break in period and definitely hits harder the longer it's played with.
Mine was 8.2oz and I felt it was terrible to control. Swing weight was way too heavy, and even with lead tape the sweet spot felt tiny. Its saving grace was power on serves and overheads. My lead tape was at 4 and 8. Maybe I should remove those and just try lead in the handle to counterbalance the head-heaviness. Also, you can't lower swing weight; you might shift it more to the handle, but any amount of lead tape is going to objectively make a paddle heavier (static weight) and increase SW.
Love that you guys thought about Jolla edge guard tape! I bought the Hyperion and that was my immediate thought so I wrote to Jolla to request that they manufacture matching edge guard tape. 😊
I actually have the opposite thoughts on the hyperion. I think the hand speed on it is so much better than the perseus. Whenever I used the gen 2 and gen 3 perseus it felt so hard to move around. But it did have a little less power and spin. Ive tried them all out and the hyperion is by far my favorite
When you say you've tried them all out, are you referring to the Gen 3 paddles? I'm trying to decide between the Perseus, Scorpeus, and Hyperion, but none of the reviewers seem to have the Hyperion, so I haven't seen as much info about it. I have a 2-hand backhand, so I like the 5.5" handle of the Perseus and Hyperion. I generally prefer paddles with lower swing weight and higher twist weight, so the Hyperion seems like a better fit than the Perseus.
@@mrswitters1974 Pickleball Effect has the Hyperion in their database. 115 SW vs 121 on the Perseus. Same spin (~2000 RPM from Braydon, but John Kew can generate more).
@@zachcarmichael699 Thanks. I didn't realize the twist weight on the Hyperion was so low (about the same as the Perseus). This pushes me toward the Scorpeus. The low swing weight/high twist weight is way better for me. Although I'd prefer a 5.5" handle to 5.25", I've played with a Scorpeus Gen 2 and I didn't have too much trouble with my twoey.
@@mrswitters1974 That's because the gen 2 Scorpeus actually had a 5.5-inch handle, despite advertising 5.25, at least that's what Chris Olson measured it as. Not sure if the "corrected" it with the gen 3 or are still misadvertising.
Hey John. Will you please comment on why the gen 3 Scorpeus 16 has lower spin than the gen3 14mm scorpeus? It seems like the all of the gen 3 16mm in your data have more spin except the Scorpeus 16.
Save yourself the time/money, just buy something really nice now and your game will adjust/elevate to the paddle! (the nicer paddles last longer too) 😅
I'm sure it's it the works by others. They did not invent theromoformed tech. And the paddles sound like they added EVA foam in the edge. The sound the paddle makes has that same thump, only lighter than full EVA foam paddles. I don't think they can keep people from adding rubber or foam like theirs. Wonder what would happen if GearBox added that to their Pro paddle which was the fastest. Even faster and more spin?
Kevlar is used as battle protection by displacement of energy across an area. Does this have the same effect on the paddle surface and reduce power? Or are there other materials under the Kevlar that help maintain the power and pop?
While playing locally, we had a bit of controversy. The server dropped the ball for their serve and swung at it but completely missed hitting it with the paddle. Does this mean the sever looses his serve? As a rec player, I didn't think so (especially since we are just rec players), but others disagreed. What is the rule?
What is your primary paddle? I was using the Gearbox Power Pro Fusion for my main for 4 months, but it’s just too hard to control so I’m not planning on using it as my main paddle anymore.
Great podcast as usual guys! I especially enjoyed your review the Kineon! At 72 I spend as much time healing from sprains and various ‘itises as I do playing. Dealing this week with plantar fasciitis for the first time. So anything that gets me on the court more is greatly appreciated! Usually I’m doing rehab exercises, using various creams and salves, or just icing, but they are all slow healing solutions. I’ll definitely check out the research on the Kineon to see if it’s for me. Healing quicker would be great! I would appreciate any other health reviews in addition to the paddle reviews in the future! Thanks!
I'd love to see some discussion about paddle selection strategy. By this, I mean is it best to choose one paddle and always play with it, or to have multiple paddles that you use in different situations. I'm a surfer and skier. I have different boards/skis for different conditions, and that's part of what increases the fun. If there's no fresh snow, I take out my race-oriented skis and have a blast on the groomers. But I'm on my all-mountain/powder skis if it's a powder day. Similar with surfing-I choose which board to use based on the size and shape of the waves. I'm surprised this isn't more common with pickleball-especially given the huge range of paddles available now. For example, if I'm playing full-on bangers, maybe I want a paddle with fast hand speed and a lot of stability so I can reset better. Maybe I want an all-court paddle for typical matches and then a power paddle like these Gen 3 Joolas for those times when I want to be more aggressive. But I don't see pros doing this-they seem to stick with the same paddle no matter what. And I don't see much discussion about it elsewhere.
Agree with you here. I switch paddles all the time depending on indoor vs outdoor, wind/temp conditions, opponents, singles vs doubles, preferred style of play for that game etc.... Of course the pros are often bound by their sponsorship deals, but maybe they change configurations with weight/grip etc... would be great like you mentioned to have more discussion on strategic paddle modifications.
Very interesting question. I know that pro tennis players tend to use the same type of racquet and strings (of course using many different identical racquets) for years or even decades, but will vary the tension of their strings within a range depending on the conditions. It seems like pro pickleball players switch paddles more often than this, but this might be because paddle technology is evolving so fast at the moment, and it might also have to do with sponsorship deals. Still, a lot of pros play with "Gen 1" paddles even when their sponsor produces something supposedly more advanced. Using an old paddle with the new paddle's paint job, like Ben Johns is supposedly doing now, is extremely common in tennis, and I wouldn't be surprised if it happens more often in pickleball going forward. What this suggests to me is that for a high level player, having a single paddle that you become extremely familiar with and learning to be consistent with it is more valuable than switching paddles constantly. But maybe that lesson doesn't apply to lower level players who won't ever hit millions of strokes with a single paddle. And it's definitely possible to make mistakes in the other direction. In tennis, Roger Federer famously played with a more "old-school" tennis racquet for years after most of his peers had switched to lighter racquets with larger heads, and he had a late-career resurgence after he finally switched to a bigger racquet.
@@johnclikeman5041 Great points. I've played exclusively with the Ruby for the past 6 months. Prior to that, I was switching back and forth between 2-3 paddles. I do feel I've benefitted from sticking with a single paddle. I'm going to try the Gen 3 Scorpeus and the J2K (similar to Ruby) and see if I prefer one over the other. (Still love my Ruby, but the spin has decreased dramatically, so I don't want to get another one.)
I had no trouble adjusting to the pop of the new Joolas and I came from a Gen 1 paddle. Do you think Ben and Collin know that the paddles are going to be capped and that’s the reason they aren’t using the new tech?
@Johnkew I've watched your review on the Sixzero Ruby and now this video on the Gen-3 Joola paddles. How do they compare in power, spin, control, touch, twist weight, swing weight? Can we have a video on that?
I am wondering what is your, John & Eddie, opinion about adding maneuverability to your criteria for evaluating paddles. I, personally, am of the opinion that maneuverability is meaningfully underweighted by many recreational (non-pro) players, and I see lots of people (too many, IMO) playing with powerful elongated paddles while struggling with hitting the ball cleanly/accurately due to slow hand speed.
Hi John, instead of the infrared , have you ever tried using a tens machine? It’s a home, compact version of what you might have been introduced to at PT. The cost is about $20, and it’s quite helpful. No infrared use or cellular changes. Just a bit of electrical stimulation to promote blood flow and healing in target areas
Enjoyed you pod and always look forward to listening to the content. I like the "energy" metric but as with all other paddle metrics, does this take into account the variations from like paddle to like paddle? It would be interesting to see how close manufacturing tolerances are amongst the different paddle manufacturers.
One nice thing about Gen 1 and Gen 2 paddles was that competition led to availability of very good paddles for great prices. 3rd generation paddles are touting "patent-pending" core technology. Of course, the reasoning behind patents is to encourage innovation, but do you think there is any danger of one or two paddle brands being too dominant? Will rec players feel like they have to spend $280 just to compete on a level playing field?
When you think of Kevlar, I think everyone thinks the softness of Ruby, but with the thrive release and others, seemingly all Kevlar is not implemented the same. How do you classify these paddles, or is Kevlar not enough of a descriptor to understand how a paddle will be like carbon fiber is?
What's the good measurement for sweet spot? Twist weight can't tell the whole story, heavier paddles with higher twist weight not necessary have better sweet spot. A method came to my mind: drop a ball 3' high to the paddle every half inch, bounce to the height no more than 10%(to be determined) difference, the area in square inch is the sweet spot, the height is the pop. For spin, a ball cannon could be used, 50 mph shooting 45 degrees from 12". So we could eliminate the human factors for testing.
seems like your spin numbers typically higher than pbstudios. is there an ideal serving technique to maximize spin? best direction to strike the ball (south to north, east to west) of the surface of the paddle?
Love the podcast info, I'm kinda nerdy like that. Here's one for you. What are the kind of foams companies use. What are the differences/characteristics between "regular" foam and like EV foam.
Would be interested in seeing you review the slyce speed cap and how that affects paddles that you liked but thought were too high a swing weight. The product is a weighted butt cap that replaces the stock one that comes on paddles. Similar concept to gryp’s
So im playing exclusively with the Ruby now, which one is MOST comparable to the Ruby? Im leaning hard on trying the Colin 16. would really love to see the comparison of the Ruby to the Colin 16. Great stuff you guys, thank you!
@@kyler5595 I have two Rubys, ive only been using one . I haven't played with the second one yet. I cant FEEL the difference of the texture on the face in the most hit sweet spot center area, once I switch to the second one I hope to see if there is a difference. In my mind there is a nagging feeling of loss of spin on my drives.
I bought a J2K to replace my Ruby, which I love. The J2K has a touch better control, a bigger sweet spot, more spin, and just as much power. It's also readily available and cheaper. Check it out! I'm also going to buy one of the Joola Gen 3 paddles. I'm leaning toward the Hyperion. It's a similar shape to the Ruby, same handle size (5.5"), and will have similar swing and twist weight, especially with a bit of lead tape.
Is the power and pop of the Hyperion 16mm on par with the Perseus 16mm? Mine is coming in the mail today and I mainly got it because I wanted Perseus power but slightly quicker hands.
It seems to depend on who you ask! Luca at Rackets & Runners said the Hyperion is his favorite for exactly the reason you mentioned: faster hand speed/maneuverability than the Perseus, but still plenty of power and pop. But John and Eddie ranked the Hyperion last. Most people agree that the Hyperion has a smaller sweet spot than the Perseus, which in turn is smaller than the Scorpeus.
I really appreciate your work in developing testing procedures and establishing quantifiable metrics for paddle comparisons. Ultimately, however, it seems that those raw numbers need to be translated back into a “feel factor” for individual players to make their paddle purchasing decisions. Should a player choose a paddle that compliments and enhances their strengths, or choose a paddle that bolsters a weakness? Or should players choose paddles that provide a needed “lift” to an attribute or skill that is more challenging to learn? In baseball, it’s said that you can’t teach speed or a 500’ homer. I wonder if control isn’t easier to learn than mastering techniques to improve power in pickleball. If this is true, with practice, a player should be able to learn to control a powerful paddle than develop power with a paddle designed for control. What are your thoughts on this?
If four 4.5 players play a round robin each switching games between a Vatic Prism Flash and a Gen 3 Joola, which paddle will have more points at the end of the day ? And is there a significant enough difference to justify a 3X greater cost for the Joola?
Once they have extensive experience and get used to both paddles, the Joola should dominate. Better power, pop, spin, and arguably no lesser control. It's BOTH the Indian and the Arrow. In any sport, the better the skill, the more equipment makes a difference. It's the lower level that are not capable of wringing out performance from cutting edge equipment.
Since you are obviously a Thomas Wilson fan, I wonder if you might review the CRBN TW12 and provide the specs in your database (esp SW, balance pt TW, spin & sweetspot.
Great channel guys, update after 2, 3 hour sessions stock Magnus 14mm core crushed….Gearbox Pro Elongated lasted a week….at least the Magnus peel ply out lasted the paddle! Any thoughts on reviewing Alshon paddle the Paddletek?
Hey guys, good stuff! Question: With your commitment to accuracy, have you given any thought to developing a "serve machine" to help standardize your spin, and power numbers. For instance, the review channel Project Farm does an awesome job with staying true to the Scientific Method with his testing by using (near) perfectly repeatable mechanisms. I feel like with some clamps, springs, and framing, you could have something. It might not result in a typical serve, but it would be precise. Keep up the good work!
Love your channel, thanks for all you do! I am pretty sure Lea was there, she lost to schneeman? Question for next week: "How does the size of the polymer cells (diameter) and the thickness the cell walls in the core of the paddle affect its power, control, and vibration dampening during gameplay?"
Is it typical for someone to have an indoor or outdoor paddle that plays differently based on the environment / condition. Account for soft or stiff balls.
Agree on the paddles, 14mm Scorpeus is my fave right now as someone that gets tennis elbow. I liked the Perseus, but it might have aggravated my tennis elbow. Would definitely be interested in a video on devices to help with injuries. I’ve been researching led therapy, started doing that to supplement my cold laser and prp injections. I’ve been interested in the difference in quality of led bulbs between devices e.g. tendlite pro vs lifepro. Also interested in the achedaway cupper with red light therapy with the revo as the “generic” version. Gonna research your device too. Thanks!
I'd like to hear what you find. I've used one of those $50 red light therapy belts from Amazon. It did help some when I had pain but nothing as dramatic as Kew reported.
I’m interested in his device, it is 30 day risk free, so might be worth a shot. I like my $70 lumicure pro torch from lifepro. I use the pulsed setting, and I do notice results, but barely. Prp has made the largest difference, and swapping to a lower swing weight and lower twist weight paddle, Mach 2 forza, has really helped me be able to play more with less pain.
Been using the Gearbox for a few months. Felt like I had it really dialed in to control it. Today I took the 16mm Perseus 3G to the park. The power doesnt seem as much as the Gearbox at all. My serve returns were ending up just past half court with the same effort. I tend to hit my returns low with lots of top spin. I did notice additional spin so maybe that could be some of the reasons it was hitting shorter. I think I may switch though as I did feel a considerable amount of control over the Gearbox and like I mentioned increased spin. It also seems like the Gearbox is poppy in the upper middle to a large degree. I will miss the superior construction of the Gearbox and the sound. It just feels like a better engineered paddle. I imagine my game will change to more of a drip type 3rd shot as opposed to a drive (3rd) and then drop (5th). When dropping aggressively I'll have to put in 20% more effort to make it over the net. Just my thoughts after one day with it. And the other main reason is I feel 20% faster at the kitchen in hands battles and attacking but overheads will require 40% more effort for the same power. Pop felt about the same but more controlled.
Great podcast! I can definitely tell you guys apart, even if I didn't watch it on YT...😂 Eddie, are you coordinating any play locations while you're in Raleigh? I work pretty close to Method, but my primary play location is Flaherty in WF.
Flaherty is an awesome community. I bet we know a lot of the same people. Won't get there next week however... I'll probably be at Lifetime if the weather is bad; Method if it's good. Maybe I'll see ya!
Do you foresee manufacturers following a yearly release cycle? With so many paddles being released this April/May, it feels like many manufacturers are targeting the Spring season to unveil their new products.
Agree with Eddie.. Lower level players will have a tough time with their soft game with these paddles.. 4.5 - above have much better hands and can soften up their game and adapt way easier then lower levels..
@johnkewpickleball is it possible to have Bryan add a calculator or part of the spreadsheet to predict how the common paddle weighting points would change swing weight/twistweight/maneuverability. If you put it on your site with a good UX and maybe a printable compare page available that would be a cool v3.0 edition.
Hey John, i like your podcast and your Paddle Database. I like to use a lot of top spin, so would you recommend Kevlar or Kevlar /carbon fiber or carbon fiber for maximum spin. Also which of those three will maintain spin quality the longest.
@johnkewpickleball did you notice if the “diving board” design moved the sweet spot higher on the face? I’ve theorized if paddles were designed to flex and flick powerfully like a diving board it would effectively place the sweet spot at the top edge. Also, this would increase player reach more than the .5-1” difference in paddle length. Which could potentially make the scorpius have a sweet spot in a location equivalent to a standard hybrid or elongated length paddle.
Great question! You'd think the sweet spot would move towards the top edge, but subjectively, I did not find that to be the case. Perhaps John noticed something different.
Yes, good question. I feel like the sweet spot on the elongated paddles (Perseus, Hyperion, Magnus) is located about right where it normally is, so not really higher. But there might be something to it being a little higher on the Scorpeus. I usually have a harder time adjusting to standard sized paddles, coming from longer paddles, but these don't seem to throw me off
In your opinion have the new Gen 3 Joolas made a significant impact on the pro game? Have you observed any differences in players behavior when playing with it or against it? Keep up the awesome content!
I noticed that the power and pop of the new Jewett battles are about 4 mph faster than my Mach 2 Forza. It’s got to be more than that. Doesn’t it or is 4 miles an hour that big a deal
Although 3-4 MPH doesn't sound like much, it actually makes a big difference on a pickleball court, given its small dimensions (20 x 44 ft). A better way to use the database is to look at the percentiles. For example, the Perseus 3 falls at the 95th percentile for power, versus the Volair M2F, which falls at the 55th percentile. The average human reaction time is 250 milliseconds, so what appear to be small differences in speed on paper translate into a much more impactful difference on the court. E.g., the Perseus 3-16mm clocked 57.6 MPH on serves. At that speed, it would take the ball 520 ms to travel baseline to baseline (44 ft). And the M2F clocked 54.7 MPH, so the ball would take 550 ms to travel the same distance. Thirty milliseconds may sound minuscule, but that's actually taking away 12% of your reaction time. And where speed differences become REALLY important is at the kitchen, because you're only standing 14 feet away from your opponent. So taking my punch volley speeds (37.3 MPH for the Perseus 3 and 34.0 MPH for the M2F), the Perseus ball covers 14 feet in 255 ms (right up against the average human reaction time), versus the M2F at 280 ms. So you're getting 10% more time to react to the M2F than the Hyperion 3. And when you're dealing with the limits of human reaction time, every millisecond counts. And here's the most interesting thing: the Anna Bright Scorpeus 14mm paddle is the first to break the human reaction time for punch volleys. It clocked an average of 38.6 MPH, which translates into 247 ms for the ball to travel across both kitchens. So unless you're anticipating where the ball is going with a high degree of accuracy, you're not going to have time to react.
@@HowieB-isMe3885 No. This is not an objective standard time. It is how fast John Kew pops. A pro can generally pop it much faster. And 3.0 woman will generally pop it a lot slower. So the number Kew provides is helpful, but only evaluated against his other numbers. Not another tester's number. Further, good players READ the opponent's paddle and not just the ball so before the ball even contact their paddle for the return, the players are already reacting. Hence, their reaction time is much faster than one would be if the reaction time began only at point of contact. I hope this makes sense. I believe that Dr. Kew will confirm this. And I believe that the only Pickleball tester on youtube with an earned doctorate is John. :)
Enjoyed your time and energy you put into this conversation. I do feel these paddles are to powerful for the Game of Pickleball. Better used in the game of Wiffle Ball. This are to powerful and people have and will keep on being hurt more often due to mis use. I feel this is heading in the Direction of Racquetball. Which when points became to short due to power people stopped playing the game. That is what is happening at the pro level and is starting to happen at the Rec Level with the Gen3 Joola and the Gearbox pro's. May the players of Pickleball decide to safe the fate of Pickleball. The Paddle is a Weapon more so then Ever. Watch out, get out of the way, let the ball fly and always wear eye protection. Blessings on and off the Court.
Given the amount of pickleball paddles you graciously review and provide metrics on how they differ. Do you plan on doing reviews on tennis/pickleball shoes in the near future? Given that the paddles are 1 variable piece of equipment you use when playing pickleball. Would be good to know what you’ve worn and what you liked (both you and Eddie).
Someone on discord said they sat by Ben in the last tournament when he was watching his brother play and asked about his paddle about using the old one with new graphics, and Ben replied you’re not entirely wrong. He’s using the old core with the new technology I believe.
This issue with different grit on different sides of the same paddle or even 2 different paddles of the same model having different grit is absolutely infuriating. Quality control is seriously lacking in paddle manufacturing and while Chris/you might think it's harder for Joola because of their size I take the opposite opinion. Joola might sell the most paddles in the indrusty and thus have the biggest budget and at $280 a paddle they should be investing in QC such that differences in grit should be minor. I'm tired of hearing "but the manufacturing is in China and we should just accept poor QC". With the amount of profit in paddles QC should be improved with much tighter tolerances.
I will wait to buy my paddles until Joola work out all the bugs. $280 is too much to pay for a paddle that has grit & handle diameter/ sharpness issues.
Okay so as of now I know and have played with 6 people using the new Gen 3 Joola's. And all of them are hitting balls long. Especially when the pace is speed up. They can't keep the springboard effect the new paddle has from deflecting the ball at too high of pace. I think in the next few weeks you're going to see a lot of paddle returns to stores, used ones for sale, and a sharp decline within 2 months as word gets out this paddle series is way too hot for most players. To much pop, too much deflection.
@@johnkewpickleball I’m 63 and took atorvastatin for a year until I had joint pain bad enough to quit using it. But it left my hands with what felt like permanent inflammation. I bought a red light panel from Mito Red Light and use it about 3 times a week for 5 minutes and it really helps.
@@2musiclover534 Red light therapy is a field of study and quite interesting. My panel came from Mito Red Light and it has four wave lengths. Some wave lengths penetrate deeper than skin. If you are interested I’d recommend watching some credible youtube videos about it.
Having watched my friends using the gearbox, their play is way too careful to use as the paddle should be used, the swings are guarded, dinks guarded, similarities to a bull in a China shop!
@@johnkewpickleball I was using the prism flash and the ronbus pulsar r1. I was hoping to find something in between the two in terms of pop. Never experienced tennis elbow before in my life. Any recommendations? Great videos btw the best there is. 👌
Really enjoy this podcast. It’s becoming my go-to that I listen to first. Probably because you guys are in my age wheelhouse lol, but more importantly, seem like good guys. Thanks for your hard work in providing content with value.
I just bought 3 models of the Joola Gen 3 paddle: Hyperion, Perseus, and Scorpeus (16mm). My intention was to compare the weight, shape, and swing feel in person before deciding which one to keep. (I live in a small town with no shops or clubs that demo Joola paddles.) I've noticed a huge difference between the three paddles in terms of grit. The Scorpeus feels very smooth, almost no grit at all. The Hyperion feels quite gritty. The Perseus is somewhere between the two. And the grit is also inconsistent on each paddle. This is most noticeable on the Hyperion, where one side of the face is much grittier than the other. And, on the side that has more grit, there's a 2-inch strip toward the left edge that is smooth with almost no grit.
Not sure what to do here. I'm leaning toward returning these, but 1) I'm not sure if Joola will allow it for this reason (they aren't known for great customer service), and 2) I'm not confident the next ones will be better, given the obvious QC issues.
What do you think about the skins which are coming out? Do you think if they bring back RPM/spin back to your paddle Would you use it and do you think is this the future?
So I just played a few relaxed games with a brand new 16mm Perseus. I noticed ridiculous spin on drives, but the power was much more noticeable on volleys/counters, etc.. I also felt I could hit really nice drives without swinging very hard. All that being said, how much do you think the incoming velocity has to do with the power return? Also, do you think these paddles will make a bigger difference for those who already have lots of power and swing speed, or those who don't have that much power to begin with? My initial feeling is it really helps in that intermediate range more than the high-end.
Do you think we are going to see a ban on certain power paddles in pro tournaments and have pros use gen 1/2 paddles sort of like how baseball uses wooden bats in the MLB? What are your thoughts on this.
Question- with “power paddles” now including the Gearbox as well as the new Joolas (and possibly new Vatic Oni?,) do you think that a new category should be opened to describe a paddle? Now we have power/ control/ and all-court. Should we have power+ added? Will the other brands have to include one of these to stay relevant, whether or not it’s good for the game?
John, any thoughts on durability of the foam to core contact point? Seems the constant flex from the core would separate the foam from the honeycomb. Just a thought.
Nerd question about the difference in power between Generations of paddles that could be framed a couple of different ways...
What is the exit velocity difference for same brand paddles with the same swingweight but different tech?
Or - What is the swingweight difference in order to achieve the same exit velocity or would your serve velocity be a comparable metric?
My current paddle is a R3.16 and I would like some more power mainly for singles, but I'm still a control player overall. I'm considering the Huarache-X Control, Volair M2F, or maybe even the Ronbus FX depending on what they bring.
For the wattage test for maneuverability - will the calculation have to take into account limb lengths and leverages? You had mentioned different muscles needing to be used. A longer arm would surely require more energy for the same amount of movement in the same amount of time.
Hi John. I'd like to hear your thoughts/ratings on the Coretek Alpha paddle if you've had the chance to hit with it. It's honeycomb core is foam filled and presumably gives it Gen. 3 levels power and pop while still being a 'legal' paddle. It's a bargain at just $125, so I went ahead and bought one and am really starting to enjoy playing with it. Because the foam filling, the paddle is a bit on the heavy side out of the box (~8.5 oz.), but it's also head heavy with the swing weight of 127, which certainly limits it's appeal to fewer players. I've customized mine by adding 3 grams of weight to base of the handle and 1.5 grams at about 4:30 & 7:30 to increase the sweet spot and plow through while lowering the swing weight/balance point. Like the Gearbox and Joola Gen. 3 paddles it has a break in period and definitely hits harder the longer it's played with.
Mine was 8.2oz and I felt it was terrible to control. Swing weight was way too heavy, and even with lead tape the sweet spot felt tiny. Its saving grace was power on serves and overheads. My lead tape was at 4 and 8. Maybe I should remove those and just try lead in the handle to counterbalance the head-heaviness.
Also, you can't lower swing weight; you might shift it more to the handle, but any amount of lead tape is going to objectively make a paddle heavier (static weight) and increase SW.
What kind of characteristics do you think a Ronbus Nova paddle with the tight Kevlar weave found on the J2K Pro would have?
Love that you guys thought about Jolla edge guard tape! I bought the Hyperion and that was my immediate thought so I wrote to Jolla to request that they manufacture matching edge guard tape. 😊
I actually have the opposite thoughts on the hyperion. I think the hand speed on it is so much better than the perseus. Whenever I used the gen 2 and gen 3 perseus it felt so hard to move around. But it did have a little less power and spin. Ive tried them all out and the hyperion is by far my favorite
When you say you've tried them all out, are you referring to the Gen 3 paddles? I'm trying to decide between the Perseus, Scorpeus, and Hyperion, but none of the reviewers seem to have the Hyperion, so I haven't seen as much info about it. I have a 2-hand backhand, so I like the 5.5" handle of the Perseus and Hyperion. I generally prefer paddles with lower swing weight and higher twist weight, so the Hyperion seems like a better fit than the Perseus.
@@mrswitters1974 Pickleball Effect has the Hyperion in their database. 115 SW vs 121 on the Perseus. Same spin (~2000 RPM from Braydon, but John Kew can generate more).
@@zachcarmichael699 Thanks. I didn't realize the twist weight on the Hyperion was so low (about the same as the Perseus). This pushes me toward the Scorpeus. The low swing weight/high twist weight is way better for me. Although I'd prefer a 5.5" handle to 5.25", I've played with a Scorpeus Gen 2 and I didn't have too much trouble with my twoey.
@@mrswitters1974 That's because the gen 2 Scorpeus actually had a 5.5-inch handle, despite advertising 5.25, at least that's what Chris Olson measured it as. Not sure if the "corrected" it with the gen 3 or are still misadvertising.
@@zachcarmichael699 Good to know. I have a Scorpeus Gen 3 coming on Sat. I'll measure it and see where it lands.
Hey John. Will you please comment on why the gen 3 Scorpeus 16 has lower spin than the gen3 14mm scorpeus? It seems like the all of the gen 3 16mm in your data have more spin except the Scorpeus 16.
What’s a good starter paddle and when should I switch to a more expensive paddle
Save yourself the time/money, just buy something really nice now and your game will adjust/elevate to the paddle! (the nicer paddles last longer too) 😅
Stoked to hear about the Kew Factor, can’t wait to hear more 👍
Will copycat companies be able to bypass Joola's patent on their paddles and copy this? An extra layer of foam seems so easy and simple to do.
I'm sure it's it the works by others. They did not invent theromoformed tech. And the paddles sound like they added EVA foam in the edge. The sound the paddle makes has that same thump, only lighter than full EVA foam paddles. I don't think they can keep people from adding rubber or foam like theirs. Wonder what would happen if GearBox added that to their Pro paddle which was the fastest. Even faster and more spin?
Glad to win the paddle giveaway!! I messaged you on instagram and emailed you
can you register the scanning thing on Joola Gen 3 if you werent the original buyer as long as hasnt been scanned yet?
You also need the original order number and sales date. If you have those then yes.
Kevlar is used as battle protection by displacement of energy across an area. Does this have the same effect on the paddle surface and reduce power? Or are there other materials under the Kevlar that help maintain the power and pop?
While playing locally, we had a bit of controversy. The server dropped the ball for their serve and swung at it but completely missed hitting it with the paddle. Does this mean the sever looses his serve? As a rec player, I didn't think so (especially since we are just rec players), but others disagreed. What is the rule?
What is your primary paddle? I was using the Gearbox Power Pro Fusion for my main for 4 months, but it’s just too hard to control so I’m not planning on using it as my main paddle anymore.
Could you do a review of the Hyperion C2? I am curious how it compares to others on your database. Thanks!!
Great podcast as usual guys! I especially enjoyed your review the Kineon! At 72 I spend as much time healing from sprains and various ‘itises as I do playing. Dealing this week with plantar fasciitis for the first time. So anything that gets me on the court more is greatly appreciated! Usually I’m doing rehab exercises, using various creams and salves, or just icing, but they are all slow healing solutions. I’ll definitely check out the research on the Kineon to see if it’s for me. Healing quicker would be great! I would appreciate any other health reviews in addition to the paddle reviews in the future! Thanks!
I hear ya! At 55, not a day goes by without something hurting... Looking forward to seeing what new technology might help keep these issues at bay.
I'd love to see some discussion about paddle selection strategy. By this, I mean is it best to choose one paddle and always play with it, or to have multiple paddles that you use in different situations. I'm a surfer and skier. I have different boards/skis for different conditions, and that's part of what increases the fun. If there's no fresh snow, I take out my race-oriented skis and have a blast on the groomers. But I'm on my all-mountain/powder skis if it's a powder day. Similar with surfing-I choose which board to use based on the size and shape of the waves.
I'm surprised this isn't more common with pickleball-especially given the huge range of paddles available now. For example, if I'm playing full-on bangers, maybe I want a paddle with fast hand speed and a lot of stability so I can reset better. Maybe I want an all-court paddle for typical matches and then a power paddle like these Gen 3 Joolas for those times when I want to be more aggressive. But I don't see pros doing this-they seem to stick with the same paddle no matter what. And I don't see much discussion about it elsewhere.
Agree with you here. I switch paddles all the time depending on indoor vs outdoor, wind/temp conditions, opponents, singles vs doubles, preferred style of play for that game etc.... Of course the pros are often bound by their sponsorship deals, but maybe they change configurations with weight/grip etc... would be great like you mentioned to have more discussion on strategic paddle modifications.
Very interesting question. I know that pro tennis players tend to use the same type of racquet and strings (of course using many different identical racquets) for years or even decades, but will vary the tension of their strings within a range depending on the conditions.
It seems like pro pickleball players switch paddles more often than this, but this might be because paddle technology is evolving so fast at the moment, and it might also have to do with sponsorship deals. Still, a lot of pros play with "Gen 1" paddles even when their sponsor produces something supposedly more advanced. Using an old paddle with the new paddle's paint job, like Ben Johns is supposedly doing now, is extremely common in tennis, and I wouldn't be surprised if it happens more often in pickleball going forward.
What this suggests to me is that for a high level player, having a single paddle that you become extremely familiar with and learning to be consistent with it is more valuable than switching paddles constantly. But maybe that lesson doesn't apply to lower level players who won't ever hit millions of strokes with a single paddle. And it's definitely possible to make mistakes in the other direction. In tennis, Roger Federer famously played with a more "old-school" tennis racquet for years after most of his peers had switched to lighter racquets with larger heads, and he had a late-career resurgence after he finally switched to a bigger racquet.
@@johnclikeman5041 Great points. I've played exclusively with the Ruby for the past 6 months. Prior to that, I was switching back and forth between 2-3 paddles. I do feel I've benefitted from sticking with a single paddle. I'm going to try the Gen 3 Scorpeus and the J2K (similar to Ruby) and see if I prefer one over the other. (Still love my Ruby, but the spin has decreased dramatically, so I don't want to get another one.)
I had no trouble adjusting to the pop of the new Joolas and I came from a Gen 1 paddle.
Do you think Ben and Collin know that the paddles are going to be capped and that’s the reason they aren’t using the new tech?
@Johnkew I've watched your review on the Sixzero Ruby and now this video on the Gen-3 Joola paddles. How do they compare in power, spin, control, touch, twist weight, swing weight? Can we have a video on that?
Thanks for the Spotify timestamps
Oh there are timestamps on Spotify? I don't even know how that happened, ha
Can’t wait for the Kevlar paddle battle!!!
wooohooo love this John! Great review of the MOVE+ :)
I am wondering what is your, John & Eddie, opinion about adding maneuverability to your criteria for evaluating paddles. I, personally, am of the opinion that maneuverability is meaningfully underweighted by many recreational (non-pro) players, and I see lots of people (too many, IMO) playing with powerful elongated paddles while struggling with hitting the ball cleanly/accurately due to slow hand speed.
Hi John, instead of the infrared , have you ever tried using a tens machine? It’s a home, compact version of what you might have been introduced to at PT. The cost is about $20, and it’s quite helpful. No infrared use or cellular changes. Just a bit of electrical stimulation to promote blood flow and healing in target areas
Have there been any paddles that taper to a thinner top? I.e 16mm near the base and maybe 10mm at the top?
No.
Enjoyed you pod and always look forward to listening to the content. I like the "energy" metric but as with all other paddle metrics, does this take into account the variations from like paddle to like paddle? It would be interesting to see how close manufacturing tolerances are amongst the different paddle manufacturers.
One nice thing about Gen 1 and Gen 2 paddles was that competition led to availability of very good paddles for great prices. 3rd generation paddles are touting "patent-pending" core technology. Of course, the reasoning behind patents is to encourage innovation, but do you think there is any danger of one or two paddle brands being too dominant? Will rec players feel like they have to spend $280 just to compete on a level playing field?
When you think of Kevlar, I think everyone thinks the softness of Ruby, but with the thrive release and others, seemingly all Kevlar is not implemented the same. How do you classify these paddles, or is Kevlar not enough of a descriptor to understand how a paddle will be like carbon fiber is?
How the proton séries 1 , type A 11 mm perform on the pack of Power paddles?
The Solaire was an awesome and overlooked paddle. I'd like to try the Mach 2, but my wife won't let me buy anymore paddles.
Too bad! The VM2 is pretty incredible!
What's the good measurement for sweet spot? Twist weight can't tell the whole story, heavier paddles with higher twist weight not necessary have better sweet spot.
A method came to my mind: drop a ball 3' high to the paddle every half inch, bounce to the height no more than 10%(to be determined) difference, the area in square inch is the sweet spot, the height is the pop. For spin, a ball cannon could be used, 50 mph shooting 45 degrees from 12". So we could eliminate the human factors for testing.
seems like your spin numbers typically higher than pbstudios. is there an ideal serving technique to maximize spin? best direction to strike the ball (south to north, east to west) of the surface of the paddle?
Great questions! BTW - John can smack the crap out of a serve, so your results may vary! LOL
@@EddieK-PB haha that's what they all say! would love more videos of John playing
Hi John,
Are you going to review the Coretek alpha and omega? I think these should be on the same tier in terms of power
What is the future in pickleball as far as the development of paddles?
Love the podcast info, I'm kinda nerdy like that. Here's one for you. What are the kind of foams companies use. What are the differences/characteristics between "regular" foam and like EV foam.
Would be interested in seeing you review the slyce speed cap and how that affects paddles that you liked but thought were too high a swing weight. The product is a weighted butt cap that replaces the stock one that comes on paddles. Similar concept to gryp’s
So im playing exclusively with the Ruby now, which one is MOST comparable to the Ruby? Im leaning hard on trying the Colin 16. would really love to see the comparison of the Ruby to the Colin 16. Great stuff you guys, thank you!
My Ruby lost so much spin that I won’t buy it again. What about yours?
@@kyler5595 I have two Rubys, ive only been using one . I haven't played with the second one yet. I cant FEEL the difference of the texture on the face in the most hit sweet spot center area, once I switch to the second one I hope to see if there is a difference. In my mind there is a nagging feeling of loss of spin on my drives.
I bought a J2K to replace my Ruby, which I love. The J2K has a touch better control, a bigger sweet spot, more spin, and just as much power. It's also readily available and cheaper. Check it out!
I'm also going to buy one of the Joola Gen 3 paddles. I'm leaning toward the Hyperion. It's a similar shape to the Ruby, same handle size (5.5"), and will have similar swing and twist weight, especially with a bit of lead tape.
Is the power and pop of the Hyperion 16mm on par with the Perseus 16mm? Mine is coming in the mail today and I mainly got it because I wanted Perseus power but slightly quicker hands.
It seems to depend on who you ask! Luca at Rackets & Runners said the Hyperion is his favorite for exactly the reason you mentioned: faster hand speed/maneuverability than the Perseus, but still plenty of power and pop. But John and Eddie ranked the Hyperion last. Most people agree that the Hyperion has a smaller sweet spot than the Perseus, which in turn is smaller than the Scorpeus.
Hey john have any thoughts on the spartus apollo
I really appreciate your work in developing testing procedures and establishing quantifiable metrics for paddle comparisons. Ultimately, however, it seems that those raw numbers need to be translated back into a “feel factor” for individual players to make their paddle purchasing decisions. Should a player choose a paddle that compliments and enhances their strengths, or choose a paddle that bolsters a weakness? Or should players choose paddles that provide a needed “lift” to an attribute or skill that is more challenging to learn? In baseball, it’s said that you can’t teach speed or a 500’ homer. I wonder if control isn’t easier to learn than mastering techniques to improve power in pickleball. If this is true, with practice, a player should be able to learn to control a powerful paddle than develop power with a paddle designed for control. What are your thoughts on this?
If four 4.5 players play a round robin each switching games between a Vatic Prism Flash and a Gen 3 Joola, which paddle will have more points at the end of the day ? And is there a significant enough difference to justify a 3X greater cost for the Joola?
Once they have extensive experience and get used to both paddles, the Joola should dominate. Better power, pop, spin, and arguably no lesser control. It's BOTH the Indian and the Arrow. In any sport, the better the skill, the more equipment makes a difference. It's the lower level that are not capable of wringing out performance from cutting edge equipment.
Bought the Kineon Move+ Pro to treat my tennis elbow. Hope it help and I will be very grateful.
Since you are obviously a Thomas Wilson fan, I wonder if you might review the CRBN TW12 and provide the specs in your database (esp SW, balance pt TW, spin & sweetspot.
Also, were your Gearbox test results on your database used with a fresh new paddle or a broken in paddle?
The results in my database for the Gearbox are for a new paddle
Great channel guys, update after 2, 3 hour sessions stock Magnus 14mm core crushed….Gearbox Pro Elongated lasted a week….at least the Magnus peel ply out lasted the paddle! Any thoughts on reviewing Alshon paddle the Paddletek?
Will the power on the gearbox ever be controllable?
Hey guys, good stuff! Question: With your commitment to accuracy, have you given any thought to developing a "serve machine" to help standardize your spin, and power numbers. For instance, the review channel Project Farm does an awesome job with staying true to the Scientific Method with his testing by using (near) perfectly repeatable mechanisms. I feel like with some clamps, springs, and framing, you could have something. It might not result in a typical serve, but it would be precise.
Keep up the good work!
On other channel, they used the Titan ball machine to generate and keep the power consistent in their paddle testing.
Love your channel, thanks for all you do! I am pretty sure Lea was there, she lost to schneeman? Question for next week: "How does the size of the polymer cells (diameter) and the thickness the cell walls in the core of the paddle affect its power, control, and vibration dampening during gameplay?"
What about players who grip their paddle choked up (like Rob Cassidy) what paddle would you guys recommend? Thanks for the content!
Is it typical for someone to have an indoor or outdoor paddle that plays differently based on the environment / condition. Account for soft or stiff balls.
Agree on the paddles, 14mm Scorpeus is my fave right now as someone that gets tennis elbow. I liked the Perseus, but it might have aggravated my tennis elbow. Would definitely be interested in a video on devices to help with injuries. I’ve been researching led therapy, started doing that to supplement my cold laser and prp injections. I’ve been interested in the difference in quality of led bulbs between devices e.g. tendlite pro vs lifepro.
Also interested in the achedaway cupper with red light therapy with the revo as the “generic” version. Gonna research your device too. Thanks!
Gotta love the 'Anna"! Does a lot of the work for ya... Hope your elbow gets better soon. I struggled with it for 6 months, so I know the feeling.
@@EddieK-PBwhat makes it eventually goes away.
I'd like to hear what you find. I've used one of those $50 red light therapy belts from Amazon. It did help some when I had pain but nothing as dramatic as Kew reported.
I’m interested in his device, it is 30 day risk free, so might be worth a shot. I like my $70 lumicure pro torch from lifepro. I use the pulsed setting, and I do notice results, but barely. Prp has made the largest difference, and swapping to a lower swing weight and lower twist weight paddle, Mach 2 forza, has really helped me be able to play more with less pain.
@johnkew I’ll see you at the dink and rally I’m in the mixed bracket with you! Enjoyed the podcast as well
Nice! I think we've met before, right? Your avatar looks familiar
We did. We played in a dupr league a year ago and I saw you at the PPA
The Kineon link is actually the Gearbox link in the description. Just letting you know. Thanks for the great pod!!
Fixed, thanks!
I enjoyed your video a lot, but my Hudef viva pro gen 3 is blue and beautiful, its control is excellent, and pop and power are enough for me.
Been using the Gearbox for a few months. Felt like I had it really dialed in to control it. Today I took the 16mm Perseus 3G to the park. The power doesnt seem as much as the Gearbox at all. My serve returns were ending up just past half court with the same effort. I tend to hit my returns low with lots of top spin. I did notice additional spin so maybe that could be some of the reasons it was hitting shorter. I think I may switch though as I did feel a considerable amount of control over the Gearbox and like I mentioned increased spin. It also seems like the Gearbox is poppy in the upper middle to a large degree. I will miss the superior construction of the Gearbox and the sound. It just feels like a better engineered paddle. I imagine my game will change to more of a drip type 3rd shot as opposed to a drive (3rd) and then drop (5th). When dropping aggressively I'll have to put in 20% more effort to make it over the net. Just my thoughts after one day with it. And the other main reason is I feel 20% faster at the kitchen in hands battles and attacking but overheads will require 40% more effort for the same power. Pop felt about the same but more controlled.
The Perseus will break in to gain more power. Just as your Gearbox did.
@@2musiclover534 True, didnt think of that. Hopefully so and hopefully will keep all the advantages too of the Perseus! Thanks!
@@clintroberts1 I heard that you do give up a bit of control, but not much. Best wishes - you have one of the best paddles currently on the market.
@@2musiclover534 I feel there is more control with the Perseus, not sure if that is what you meant
Great podcast! I can definitely tell you guys apart, even if I didn't watch it on YT...😂
Eddie, are you coordinating any play locations while you're in Raleigh? I work pretty close to Method, but my primary play location is Flaherty in WF.
Flaherty is an awesome community. I bet we know a lot of the same people. Won't get there next week however... I'll probably be at Lifetime if the weather is bad; Method if it's good. Maybe I'll see ya!
@@EddieK-PB Cool that's awesome, we probably do! Thursday is looking like my best opportunity to get to Method, but we'll see how the week shakes out.
Do you foresee manufacturers following a yearly release cycle? With so many paddles being released this April/May, it feels like many manufacturers are targeting the Spring season to unveil their new products.
Why did you compare 8 Joola’s to only 1 Gearbox? How would the other 3 Gearbox compare?
Agree with Eddie.. Lower level players will have a tough time with their soft game with these paddles.. 4.5 - above have much better hands and can soften up their game and adapt way easier then lower levels..
@johnkewpickleball is it possible to have Bryan add a calculator or part of the spreadsheet to predict how the common paddle weighting points would change swing weight/twistweight/maneuverability. If you put it on your site with a good UX and maybe a printable compare page available that would be a cool v3.0 edition.
Will companies start to engineer and develop disposable peel ply sheets?
The brand “Pikkl” has them for sale on their site already.
Hey John, i like your podcast and your Paddle Database. I like to use a lot of top spin, so would you recommend Kevlar or Kevlar /carbon fiber or carbon fiber for maximum spin. Also which of those three will maintain spin quality the longest.
Watch his review on the proton series one paddles. That has a special surface coating that has much longer durability than other surface types.
@johnkewpickleball did you notice if the “diving board” design moved the sweet spot higher on the face? I’ve theorized if paddles were designed to flex and flick powerfully like a diving board it would effectively place the sweet spot at the top edge. Also, this would increase player reach more than the .5-1” difference in paddle length. Which could potentially make the scorpius have a sweet spot in a location equivalent to a standard hybrid or elongated length paddle.
Great question! You'd think the sweet spot would move towards the top edge, but subjectively, I did not find that to be the case. Perhaps John noticed something different.
Yes, good question. I feel like the sweet spot on the elongated paddles (Perseus, Hyperion, Magnus) is located about right where it normally is, so not really higher. But there might be something to it being a little higher on the Scorpeus. I usually have a harder time adjusting to standard sized paddles, coming from longer paddles, but these don't seem to throw me off
In your opinion have the new Gen 3 Joolas made a significant impact on the pro game? Have you observed any differences in players behavior when playing with it or against it? Keep up the awesome content!
I noticed that the power and pop of the new Jewett battles are about 4 mph faster than my Mach 2 Forza. It’s got to be more than that. Doesn’t it or is 4 miles an hour that big a deal
Although 3-4 MPH doesn't sound like much, it actually makes a big difference on a pickleball court, given its small dimensions (20 x 44 ft). A better way to use the database is to look at the percentiles. For example, the Perseus 3 falls at the 95th percentile for power, versus the Volair M2F, which falls at the 55th percentile.
The average human reaction time is 250 milliseconds, so what appear to be small differences in speed on paper translate into a much more impactful difference on the court.
E.g., the Perseus 3-16mm clocked 57.6 MPH on serves. At that speed, it would take the ball 520 ms to travel baseline to baseline (44 ft). And the M2F clocked 54.7 MPH, so the ball would take 550 ms to travel the same distance. Thirty milliseconds may sound minuscule, but that's actually taking away 12% of your reaction time.
And where speed differences become REALLY important is at the kitchen, because you're only standing 14 feet away from your opponent. So taking my punch volley speeds (37.3 MPH for the Perseus 3 and 34.0 MPH for the M2F), the Perseus ball covers 14 feet in 255 ms (right up against the average human reaction time), versus the M2F at 280 ms. So you're getting 10% more time to react to the M2F than the Hyperion 3. And when you're dealing with the limits of human reaction time, every millisecond counts.
And here's the most interesting thing: the Anna Bright Scorpeus 14mm paddle is the first to break the human reaction time for punch volleys. It clocked an average of 38.6 MPH, which translates into 247 ms for the ball to travel across both kitchens. So unless you're anticipating where the ball is going with a high degree of accuracy, you're not going to have time to react.
So the league should consider limiting the pop speed based on exceeding humanreaction time
@@HowieB-isMe3885 No. This is not an objective standard time. It is how fast John Kew pops. A pro can generally pop it much faster. And 3.0 woman will generally pop it a lot slower. So the number Kew provides is helpful, but only evaluated against his other numbers. Not another tester's number. Further, good players READ the opponent's paddle and not just the ball so before the ball even contact their paddle for the return, the players are already reacting. Hence, their reaction time is much faster than one would be if the reaction time began only at point of contact. I hope this makes sense. I believe that Dr. Kew will confirm this. And I believe that the only Pickleball tester on youtube with an earned doctorate is John. :)
If you could get a lesson with any pro on one shot who would it be and what shot.
I'm excited to see that J2K behind you! Review coming soon??
Solid offering from HPC! Looking forward to talking about it soon...
Question of the week: "How much weight and weight placement effect the sweet spot of different thickness paddles: 10, 14, 16 etc..."
Enjoyed your time and energy you put into this conversation. I do feel these paddles are to powerful for the Game of Pickleball. Better used in the game of Wiffle Ball. This are to powerful and people have and will keep on being hurt more often due to mis use. I feel this is heading in the Direction of Racquetball. Which when points became to short due to power people stopped playing the game. That is what is happening at the pro level and is starting to happen at the Rec Level with the Gen3 Joola and the Gearbox pro's. May the players of Pickleball decide to safe the fate of Pickleball. The Paddle is a Weapon more so then Ever. Watch out, get out of the way, let the ball fly and always wear eye protection. Blessings on and off the Court.
Given the amount of pickleball paddles you graciously review and provide metrics on how they differ. Do you plan on doing reviews on tennis/pickleball shoes in the near future? Given that the paddles are 1 variable piece of equipment you use when playing pickleball. Would be good to know what you’ve worn and what you liked (both you and Eddie).
We do plan to discuss shoes on the pod at some point
They upped the price so dont want to hear excuses on quality control. When I get my paddle it better be perfect. 300 with shipping no excuses
Someone on discord said they sat by Ben in the last tournament when he was watching his brother play and asked about his paddle about using the old one with new graphics, and Ben replied you’re not entirely wrong. He’s using the old core with the new technology I believe.
What's the new tech that's being used if he's using the old core?
The Simone will have a smaller grip circumference even on the 16mm.
Joola is advertising both as the same circumference: 4.25 inches
Lea Jansen was at Los Cab and lost to Lacy Schneeman. It was Brook Buckner against Stratmen in the Singles final. Brook dominated with her Gen3 Joola.
Thanks for the clarification!
Can wait to try the new Joola’s. Do you think they will add Kevlar versions this year?
Great Podcast!
My Joola Gen 3 Perseus 14mm was amazing for about two weeks, then suddenly lost power and pop.
You guys sound like two people with different voices that are TRYING to sound the same! That’s what that is!
This is getting meta, haha
Eddie told me to subscribe so technically he has pulled 5 subs.
Plus we get your 10K subscribers too, right?!
This issue with different grit on different sides of the same paddle or even 2 different paddles of the same model having different grit is absolutely infuriating. Quality control is seriously lacking in paddle manufacturing and while Chris/you might think it's harder for Joola because of their size I take the opposite opinion. Joola might sell the most paddles in the indrusty and thus have the biggest budget and at $280 a paddle they should be investing in QC such that differences in grit should be minor. I'm tired of hearing "but the manufacturing is in China and we should just accept poor QC". With the amount of profit in paddles QC should be improved with much tighter tolerances.
Good points, thanks
I will wait to buy my paddles until Joola work out all the bugs. $280 is too much to pay for a paddle that has grit & handle diameter/ sharpness issues.
The competition is over. Joola is disqualified. Maverix Havik-15, what's your take on that?
Okay so as of now I know and have played with 6 people using the new Gen 3 Joola's. And all of them are hitting balls long. Especially when the pace is speed up. They can't keep the springboard effect the new paddle has from deflecting the ball at too high of pace. I think in the next few weeks you're going to see a lot of paddle returns to stores, used ones for sale, and a sharp decline within 2 months as word gets out this paddle series is way too hot for most players. To much pop, too much deflection.
Red light therapy is legit! And I was skeptical. Works great on my hands.
I'm glad you had a similar experience as me. What sort of issues are you treating on your hands?
@@johnkewpickleball I’m 63 and took atorvastatin for a year until I had joint pain bad enough to quit using it. But it left my hands with what felt like permanent inflammation. I bought a red light panel from Mito Red Light and use it about 3 times a week for 5 minutes and it really helps.
If I'm right, red light therapy is different from what Kew reviewed? Sounds like his added lasers.
@@2musiclover534 Red light therapy is a field of study and quite interesting. My panel came from Mito Red Light and it has four wave lengths. Some wave lengths penetrate deeper than skin. If you are interested I’d recommend watching some credible youtube videos about it.
The grips are too thick for female players with smaller hands.
The specs say 4.25" which is pretty standard. I assume you are referring to the Joola.
@@robertw4196Yes…this issue had been mentioned in various UA-cam reviews. Poor quality control.
add Maverix Havik-15 Pro to this
Having watched my friends using the gearbox, their play is way too careful to use as the paddle should be used, the swings are guarded, dinks guarded, similarities to a bull in a China shop!
I bought shapeshifter and sad to say it started to give me tennis elbow 😭
Sorry to hear that! What paddle were you playing before?
@@johnkewpickleball I was using the prism flash and the ronbus pulsar r1. I was hoping to find something in between the two in terms of pop. Never experienced tennis elbow before in my life. Any recommendations? Great videos btw the best there is. 👌
When is Eddie going to get a melin hat?
These pickle nerds stole my Melin vibe, so I gotta move on to something else!
Eddie's gonna be sporting a fedora on the next pod
Sheshh. I’m certified color blind and that sh*t is pink all day 😂
I've got next-level color blindness
@@johnkewpickleball just messing with you. Luv that. I don’t feel so alone 🤣
This sounded more like a Joola commercial than a paddle review .
In hindsight, total disaster launch for Joola. Lots of money lost.