Great talk, David! Your expanded definition for a Symphonic Poem makes me think of Rebel's remarkable "Les Elements" with each movement representing stuff like Chaos, Land and Water, Fire, and so forth.
Biber's Battalia would also seem like an early example. Perhaps because it is not for a full symphony orchestra it doesn't qualify as "symphonic"? Do we need a new category of "chamber ensemble poem"?
GREAT video! I've been listening to Le Chasseur maudit, particularly your recommendations Barenboim, Munch. I have also greatly been enjoying the version smashed into that newish Complete Franck Orchestral Music box set by that orchestra and conductor I've never heard of. It's hard to get over the fact that Franck really knew how to tell a story with an orchestra. His orchestration is brilliant.
As I've already mentioned, Franz Berwald wrote his first symphonic poem (called "tonmålning" - "tone painting" in Swedish) in 1828: The battle of Leipzig. Then he wrote six more of them in 1841-42, while he was living in Berlin and Vienna: Humoristisches Capriccio (lost), Elfenspiel, Ernste und heitere Grillen, Erinnerung an die norwegischen Alpen, Bayaderen-Fest and Wettlauf. They were very successful and repeatedly played in his lifetime. And they are genuine symphonic works in one movement with a program, not overtures, and can't be considered other than symphonic poems. And I agree with Dave that Beethoven and Mendelssohn and others had already created symphonic poems early in the 19th century. Program symphonies had also been written long before Liszt by many, including Dittersdorf, Beethoven, Spohr, Berlioz etc. For Berwald, I recommend the recordings with Ulf Björlin and Royal Phil on EMI, coupled with Berwald's excellent violin and piano concertos and the four symphonies!
Thank you for this! I really enjoy the recording by Arming that you mentioned, but it is a really engaging work, so having another interpretation of it is always valuable. And this was a particularly fun video. Origin stories are always interesting ... providing one doesn't get dogmatic about them.
I've got a 1987 recording of the Franck (Schwann Musica Mundi CD 11855). It claims to be the world premiere recording (could well be true - who am I to know better?). It also says it is a "realisation" by Brian Priestman, who also conducts - whatever that means. I've always cherished it as a rarity. It is cleverly coupled with eight pieces (pièces brèves) for orchestra, taken from the 1890 organ bundle "The Organist" and orchestrated by Henri Büsser. These are conducted by Alfred Walter. Büsser was a pupil of Franck (and Massenet, and Gounod) who lived to be nearly 102 in 1973.
I bought the Fuga Libera disc. Really enjoy it. Got it used and in like new condition. You can find some good and off the beaten path releases at bargain prices that way.
I guess Alpha agrees with your appreciation of Mikko Franck's Franck's Symphony because they recorded it again less than 3 years later! Alain Altinoglu and the Frankfurt Radio Symphony recorded it with le Chasseur maudit and Rédemption (the first version I believe), and that version is simply excellent, powerful and lively. It's my preferred version. As you say: "excellence is its own justification".
Question: would Beethoven 6 be counted as a poetic symphony or so, in other words, a symphonic poem? Thanks for expanding my horizons. I guess what Liszt did what not really creating the symphonic poem but establishing it and branding it.
No, it's a symphony with a program (that is, with an idea that refers to something external to itself other than abstract emotion). But as I think your question suggests, the lines have always been blurry and we don't need to be pedantic about it.
Great talk, David! Your expanded definition for a Symphonic Poem makes me think of Rebel's remarkable "Les Elements" with each movement representing stuff like Chaos, Land and Water, Fire, and so forth.
Biber's Battalia would also seem like an early example. Perhaps because it is not for a full symphony orchestra it doesn't qualify as "symphonic"? Do we need a new category of "chamber ensemble poem"?
GREAT video! I've been listening to Le Chasseur maudit, particularly your recommendations Barenboim, Munch. I have also greatly been enjoying the version smashed into that newish Complete Franck Orchestral Music box set by that orchestra and conductor I've never heard of. It's hard to get over the fact that Franck really knew how to tell a story with an orchestra. His orchestration is brilliant.
As I've already mentioned, Franz Berwald wrote his first symphonic poem (called "tonmålning" - "tone painting" in Swedish) in 1828: The battle of Leipzig.
Then he wrote six more of them in 1841-42, while he was living in Berlin and Vienna: Humoristisches Capriccio (lost), Elfenspiel, Ernste und heitere Grillen, Erinnerung an die norwegischen Alpen, Bayaderen-Fest and Wettlauf. They were very successful and repeatedly played in his lifetime. And they are genuine symphonic works in one movement with a program, not overtures, and can't be considered other than symphonic poems.
And I agree with Dave that Beethoven and Mendelssohn and others had already created symphonic poems early in the 19th century.
Program symphonies had also been written long before Liszt by many, including Dittersdorf, Beethoven, Spohr, Berlioz etc.
For Berwald, I recommend the recordings with Ulf Björlin and Royal Phil on EMI, coupled with Berwald's excellent violin and piano concertos and the four symphonies!
Thank you for this! I really enjoy the recording by Arming that you mentioned, but it is a really engaging work, so having another interpretation of it is always valuable. And this was a particularly fun video. Origin stories are always interesting ... providing one doesn't get dogmatic about them.
Side question. Why is Franck Les beatitudes not more known and played?A towering masterpiece …
I've got a 1987 recording of the Franck (Schwann Musica Mundi CD 11855).
It claims to be the world premiere recording (could well be true - who am I to know better?). It also says it is a "realisation" by Brian Priestman, who also conducts - whatever that means. I've always cherished it as a rarity.
It is cleverly coupled with eight pieces (pièces brèves) for orchestra, taken from the 1890 organ bundle "The Organist" and orchestrated by Henri Büsser. These are conducted by Alfred Walter. Büsser was a pupil of Franck (and Massenet, and Gounod) who lived to be nearly 102 in 1973.
I bought the Fuga Libera disc. Really enjoy it. Got it used and in like new condition. You can find some good and off the beaten path releases at bargain prices that way.
- Transcendental Hoo-Harr. Whahaha! Oh Dave you're such a...
Definitely up for a transcendental hoo-haw showdown.
I guess Alpha agrees with your appreciation of Mikko Franck's Franck's Symphony because they recorded it again less than 3 years later! Alain Altinoglu and the Frankfurt Radio Symphony recorded it with le Chasseur maudit and Rédemption (the first version I believe), and that version is simply excellent, powerful and lively. It's my preferred version.
As you say: "excellence is its own justification".
A physics professor told our class that you never want to be the first person to discover something, you want to be the last to discover it.
It doesn't matter because all of the equations are fully reversible.
Hey - *I* need another Symphony in D minor!
Try Balakirev 2. Or Gouvy 4. Or Raff 6. Or...
Richard Sargeant also edited the modern editions of the Holst 1st and 2nd Suites for Band. What a weird repertoire to have edited...
Question: would Beethoven 6 be counted as a poetic symphony or so, in other words, a symphonic poem? Thanks for expanding my horizons. I guess what Liszt did what not really creating the symphonic poem but establishing it and branding it.
No, it's a symphony with a program (that is, with an idea that refers to something external to itself other than abstract emotion). But as I think your question suggests, the lines have always been blurry and we don't need to be pedantic about it.