MIKE MENTZER: "OVERTRAINING CAN BE LIFE-THREATENING"
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- Опубліковано 2 лип 2023
- To learn more about Mike Mentzer's life, legacy and teachings, please visit: www.hituni.com/about/mike-men...
This may be the most important communication Mike Mentzer ever delivered. At a time when the entire culture was advocating more and more exercise, Mike, perhaps, due to his pre-med background, was arguing that this could be medically dangerous.
You can imagine his surprise when he read the latest (1995) offering from the founder of aerobics (indeed, the man who minted the very term), Dr. Ken Cooper, which stated that overtraining was not only dangerous, but life-threatening. The good doctor had come around to Mike's side of the ledger and was no longer advocating vigorous exercise to be performed every day (as Joe Weider and other bodybuilders had believed and promoted for decades). Mike had actually written about the dangers of overtraining as far back as the late 1970s and continued writing and lecturing about its dangers during the 1980s and 90s. And yet, despite Mike’s efforts, as well as the about-face that Dr. Ken Cooper performed with regard to how often one should engage in demanding exercise, the general public for the most part has ignored the message and continue to do so at their peril.
To see more of Mike Mentzer check out these videos by Wayne Gallasch of GMV:
MIKE & RAY MENTZER TRIPLE PACK DVD SET (V-209SP-DVD) tinyurl.com/ym4vdkta
MIKE & RAY MENTZER - GYM WORKOUT DOWNLOAD (V-121) tinyurl.com/2ua7p8rj
MIKE MENTZER - FINAL CHAPTER DOWNLOAD (V-208) tinyurl.com/yc4efn8y
Overtraining can be just as bad as any other harmful addictions such as alcohol or drugs. It has serious impact on mental health. Sure it sounds real great to workout 6 days a week but then you can't even miss a day or two of your workout sessions without feeling depressed all day long with the guilt of it eating you alive from the inside resulting in skipping the gym entirely. Thank you so much for running this channel, it's literally life saving.
You’re welcome. Thanks very much for your post.
My thoughts are the exact same as yours, im so sick of people glorifying being addicted to the gym and act like its something to be proud of, its disgusting, i saw so many videos people doing just that the classic "i train 7 days a week to keep the voices in my head away" or something like that. You are destroying your body for your mental and emotional benefits, sounds just like an addiction if you ask me. The word "Addiction" is never used in a good context, even if you go to the Gym to lift just for fun and not for results, and don't care about how much muscle youre making, you still should avoid overtraining.
I can confirm this from personal experience. I found out that every time you work out. It lowers your immune system. I lifted and did cardio 6 times a week for years. Always got a sinus infection or injured. Started giving myself more time off. Finally, I found Mike. I don't get sick or injured anymore from exercise. Go %100 whenever you lift, but also rest %100 whenever you must. Walk or bike ride on days off from lifting. (Edit: spelling)
No, let the muscle rest, don't bike since it engaged muscles only walk if you can as it is normally done on daily basis!
No biking. Or EXTREMELY slow easy biking. Better to walk. Zero recovery issues. Biking can impair optimal recovery
Happened with me, lifted 6 times per week for 6 months, and got tuberculosis. Now i'm treatment with anti-biotics and lifting 3-4 per week and feeling great besides recovered what I loss.
@@DarkoFitCoachif i bike like sprinting after tommorow days of training, how much days i take off for better recovery? i hope u seeing this.
I remember one specific time when I had gone to the gym nearly 40 times in a month. Sometimes 3 sessions a day because I thought it would get me to my goals faster. Somehow, I managed to make it through that month of consistent workouts, cardio, and diet without crashing immediately. However, at the end of the month the exhaustion and fatigue from overtraining hit me all at once and I had 3 or 4 days where I was so sore and tired all over that I had to drag my body to the bathroom and kitchen before crawling back to my bed where I slept 30+ hours straight. When I woke up from that 30 hour slumber, I still felt terrible and that's when I started to realize I was doing something terribly wrong if this is the result of training so hard. This is when I started to change my training to model more like Dorian Yates/Mike Menzter and my progress from then on has increased dramatically
30 hours? First sip of water after that must've been something else
The employees at your gym must of thought there was something mentally wrong with you.😂
I suffered for years from insomnia and anxiety, and I didn't know why until I discovered Mike Mentzer and his philosophy. I started allowing more time for my body to rest, and gradually, my body began to recover, reducing cortisol levels. As a result, my sleep improved, my muscles grew, and my mental health also improved. Now, I understand the importance of low weekly volume and adequate intervals of rest. Thanks, Mike Mentzer.
Same, ive overtrained hard for 12 year to the point when i feel asleep i got jolted awake with the feeling of a heartattack about 10 times before i could fall asleep. Looking back it was high levels of cortisol. Wish i'd knew sooner.
I think even in this day and age we forget that the body is an amazingly complex interconnected machine/organism that requires "some" exercise to function optimally as well as a plethora of other needs. Going to an extreme in any one of these "needs" will have consequences. It's up to us as humans to use our brain and understand and set our own limits lest the entire organism be compromised. Bodybuilding, intense cardio, certain sports etc. are areas where we need to pay close attention to crossing that line. Mentzer"s analogy of a sunburn is a good one.
Great way to put it
When your young ( 25 and under )you can get away with it , for awhile , but as you age overtraining can seriously damage the body ( bring on a state of high cortisol ) , leading to so many disease states , cancer , heart disease , diabetes, this is confirmed by more recent studies.
I believe Mike's system was purposely suppressed cause I had never heard of it until recently. If you think about it his system is bad for business; gyms-supplements-magazine industries all stand to lose a lot of money if more people took up Mike's system. This is why most programs promote training styles that resulted in poor overall health - helps the pharmaceutical industry out as well.
I believe you have raised some very interesting and valid points.
@@tmackn6592yes , but didn’t endorse Mike as he did Arnold , Schwarzenegger was Joes golden boy 😏
I just love how he speaks like a textbook I can listen to him for hours.
I would pay over $100 for this channel, thank you John!
You’re very welcome. I’m glad you like the content!
This exactly had brought me to HIT training. For the last 14 months I have been going to the gym very consistently. I have been going 7 days a week in the beginning and gradually decreased it to 4 times a week because my law studies and work took up too much time. Although I made good progress going from 70kg to 93kg at 186cm I totally burned my self out.
I felt tired and even dizzy after workouts, I felt sluggish and had tol lay in bed all the time, joints started hurting in shoulder and elbow, my muscles became very stiff i.e. my neck always hurt and I became sick very often. I even got headaches when working out that stopped me from lifting entirely because they were so painful.
I took 8 days of, working out (HIT) every 4-7 days now and when I returned the headaches were no more, and I was feeling less fatigued. My muscles felt less stiff. And the best thing is that my strength increases are similar, if not better focusing on just the mayor compound movements (I train full-body).
I can only suggest that if anyone has any of those symptoms, take some time of and see how your overall health increases.
P.S.: The best thing about going 1-2 in contrast to 4 or more times is the time you safe. I have so much more time for family and friends and even my studies.
U didnt overtrain if u needes 8 days off. U were just overreaching. Real overtraining takes weeks or months or sometimes years off working out
If you are getting exertion headaches you need to take a half tsp of good quality salt on the back of the tongue chased down with water before a workout. I promise no more headaches.
It’s insane to realize just now that I’ve been overtraining for basically the majority of my training years, I’ve started training since 2013 , 6 years of those were consecutive training years, after 2.5 years of training i peaked ( nooby gains ) and stalled ever since, i always thought it’s normal to be that way because I’m a natural trainee, i always thought that my diet is to be blamed , or my body type as an ectomorph of why i can’t see anymore progress, I remember from the very first week of training i was doing push pull legs twice a week with tons of volume for total of 6 days a week. I was GROSSLY overtraining … after a long layoff (1.5-2years) due to financial issues i came back to training and injured my lumbar spine and my rotator cuff , so i had to train more efficiently, been doing mentzer’s HIT for almost a month now, im leaner than ever, more muscular than ever , at the highest body weight than ever , way less exhausted , more time for school or to rest , if you use it and train intensely ( as you should ) you’ll see why it’s the real deal… most are not on steroids , we can’t train and most importantly recover as one.
Mentzer videos make you feel better about taking days off
That’s not the point bro, the point on high intensity isn’t to be a bitch who feels good never goes to the gym, it’s to understand and build muscle as fast as possible.
Your motivation shouldn’t change, you should just concentrate it into one workout
I think this is a great video! Mega important knowledge here.
This channel is treasure
Human physiology is not an economy of scale 👍
I’m kicking myself for not finding Mike sooner. I’ve been on his program for about two weeks and my arms and legs are visibly larger and more defined
Thanks for posting Mike Mentzer's training, advice, and philosophy. Because of his teachings, I have made major gains in lifting using 4 days off recovery, lost weight. Enjoying and loving the gym cuz I feel full of energy to go. Thank you for what you do
Congratulations on your progress and thanks for your post.
Back in the late 80's/early 90's my training partner & I did 4hr + (at times) workouts. The youth club we trained at had an extension to the rear & I was SO keen I would get there 1st to open up. I would spend a good 40 mins+ just dragging out all the benches, squat stands, bars, weight plates and rubber matts into the main hall (basically a 5 a side football sized room) lol 😂
.....then stretching for 10 mins + 3 sets of 20 reps press ups before commencing on the weights.
Eventually my training partner got shingles as our immune systems were being destroyed beyond any ability to recover. This was quite common in those days & although 1 felt like 1 had worked hard, felt pumped etc etc the cool, hard truth of the matter was we were all massively over training.
I wish I had discovered Mike's system 20+ years ago - perhaps I would of enjoyed a better physique & had more time to explore other pursuits 🤔😊
I believe his system was purposely suppressed cause I had never heard of it until recently. If you think about it his system is bad for business; gyms-supplements-magazine industries all stand to lose a lot of money if more people took up Mike's system.
@@R251400very good points ! And even with the hard evidence against overtraining it’s constantly being ignored, even ridiculed by so called commentators, which seem planted ( controlled opposition ) .
It's surprising to hear so many social media juicers say overtraining doesn't exists. Mentzer said if you made gains training twice a day then people would work out all day
Throughout my journey in bodybuilding i have tried numerous splits such as, bro-splits, Arnold split, PPL, PPL x2, Full Body x3, calisthenics 3x a week, and a whole load more. I have to say the best results i have had was from the P/P/L (Mon, Wed, Fri). As you may know Mike Mentzer was a subject of Arthur Jones who swore by the 3x Full Body, however like Mike, it was simply too much for my body among working long hours which therefore meant less sleep. I would definitely say if you are young and subsequently do not work, absolutely do full body!
I am in the process of recovery from an injury however i am looking forwards to trying Mike's 2 day split routine of Push & Pull with legs included within those sessions, 3x a week. I feel like this may be better than P/P/L.
How did push pull work?
100% agree suprised Mentzer never mentions how when the body runs out of energy stores, the body consumes muscle. So not only is it dangerous you will in fact get weaker overtraining
He actually does mention this in a different video on this channel in which he speaks about the importance of carbohydrates for training purposes.
Something about glycogen which the body depletes during a workout and must replace and if it cant it metabolizes muscle
Yes glycogen stores, I learned that the hard way when I went zero carb , all protein , glucose is muscle sparing, with out glucose cortisol spikes as the body will turn muscle into sugar ( as glucose is important for liver and brain function ), now my muscles pop out and no longer look like a Stalin survivor.
When I first started training I used to have glands in my neck that would hurt but 41 years straight I did my upper body every single day at 15 years old LOL I did make games but I was a beginner I'm trying this one set system 3-day rest between workouts to see what happened so far not noticing super game but I like it
Wow feeling your lymph nodes respond is an extreme immune response. Very over trained.
Volume trainers getting results are juicing up big time. Test, gh, anavar, deca. I did this in my 20s so i know. It's impossible to lift 20-30 sets almost every day and still grow without juice
I started experiencing fatigue and even muscle loss after training 5 days a week for a while. I took a month off and am now going to train using Mentzer's philosophy of intense, brief, and infrequent workouts.
Have you checked all the contributing factors? Stress, sleep, nutrition, even your workout itself?
@roflolmaomgf I work as a refrigeration mechanic full time and was finishing up the semester at school. I'm in my late 30s and finally beginning to feel my age.
In regards to training, at the start of 2023, I switched from weighted calisthenics to bodybuilding using Doug Brignole's principles of biomechanics. I noticed very good results the first couple of months, and then I was forcing myself to go to the gym, even when exhausted.
I took a month off. I'm back now. I am planning to continue to use Brignole's exercises, but I will try to allow for more rest time as Mentzer would recommend.
I just want a good physique. Any input would be fantastic. Thanks very much. This is a great channel.
@@charliecool17I too am a big Doug Brignole fan ( except his take on the vaccines (rip) ), but his biomechanics is spot on , and I use his principles infused with Mikes , with great results!
Jerry Brainum stated that he over trained his calves so bad they were essentially ‘ gone ‘ , burnt off from overtraining ( his words ), so why not get the best bang for your buck? And the best results?
@@charliecool17late 30’s isn’t even old. Not like your 65
Ruined so much. I had no information about that.
Physical job, training, i had only bicycle to move to work and gym. Or walk.
Started feeling cold all the time, even in the sauna, every move hurted.
It took a decade before i could start training again.
I train that intense now all i do is an upper body sunday lower body Thursday give everything i got in those workouts the time the workout comes around again you will be all recovered, and do better then your last workout. Make sure you get good sleep and eating good every day. Results will come.
It's sad that even though this knowledge was found years ago. The vast majority today still do the same.
They don't though cause 95 percent sit on the bench looking at there phone for most of there workout looking at there phone!
Very timely, considering Joe Lindner's death. It was a combination of issues in his case, but overtraining played a part.
AND ROIDS.
Im 39 and started last month. Using Mike's philosophy. I have lost a stone and my body has got a lot more toned and my muscles are starting to build. I'm currently 220lb so was 234 and I'm 6"3. I go to failure still had a few cheat days I'm lifting more every time I go gym max 3 times a week working different muscle groups. Usually 2 times a week due to work and me not needing to go because my muscles are still sore. It's been great
Esses problemas cardíacos relatados não podem ter a ver com o abuso de anabolizantes em vez do overtraining?
Im upping my calories. Training less often and only 40mins every other day or 2 depending on intensity. Waking up later. More naps. 2 coffees instead of 4. Stress less and not overthink.
Sounds like a plan 🤜🤛
Hi John, is there any video or any information related to occasional sickness during our training days. Example - incase if we fall sick or get fever, no doubt that we cannot workout for 2 or more days depending when we recover from the sickness. So our rest or days of gap increases. usually such sickness can reduce our weight or muscle development. So how would you advice on how to cope up & maintain our weight or progress during such times till we recover?
Should we take a lay off from gym till we fully recover or anything else?
If you are sick, your body needs all of the energy it has to fight the virus 24 hours a day, seven days a week. A workout will simply syphon off the ammunition the body needs to fight the virus. You’re better to wait until you’re feeling better and then resume your training.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE - Thanks alot for the advice. Love from India!! :)
Facts
John, I almost didn't recognize your channel with the name change but your growth has exploded so the name change may have helped.
I wanted to ask what exactly is the problem if every single attempt I have made with HIT resulted in no greater strength gain past the second time I've hit each bodypart? I was doing the whole 2 seconds concentric 1 second pause, 4 seconds eccentric every workout and it didn't help.
Rep cadence is only one segment of the totality of what Mike recommended. Another is going to true positive failure. Another would be the volume and frequency. If you were not making progress, but staying the same, then you were not allowing enough time for adaptation, assuming you trained with sufficient intensity to stimulate an adaptive response from your muscles. This is why keeping a training journal is very important. When you bump up against the wall, make the necessary adjustments. You didn’t mention how many exercises you’re performing, or how frequently you were training. Assuming you are training with sufficient intensity to stimulate growth, then the only other variables are you were still doing too much volume in terms of what your system can recover from, or your training too frequently to allow for both recovery and growth.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE I wanted to take the time to answer you in full and also ask: is there a way to get in touch with you aside from youtube like an email or something where we can have a more in-depth conversation?
i still wanted to respond to your reply. When you mentioned positive failure, my first response was that I actually believe a lot of people including myself do not conjure up the intensity necessary to reach true failure as Mike intended. But then logic kicked in and I realized because Mike consistently had to provide assistance to his trainees on their work sets, it really becomes a moot point. And so from that conclusion, I regress and have to say most people who wish to utilize HIT without a partner are probably going to have to utilize two sets per exercise.
That in and of itself will mean frequency and volume will have to be adjusted. I suspect now that it is possible that I actually rested too long. I began to have Mike's mindset that more rest is better and was resting on average 96 hours between session for any bodypart. So that would be training every bodypart every 4 days. Regarding exercises, because of the sheer exhaustion true HIT tends to put me or any trainee into, I could probably only do 2 exercises per bodypart, not excluding back which probably requires 4-5 exercises for the many bodyparts that comprise of the back from the traps, to the lats, to the rear delts, and even lower back. So for my situation, I now believe the only variable I could play with is probably frequency in that I probably needed to train sooner between sessions for every bodypart considering I went all out on every set. Maybe.....volume wasn't enough but exhautsion I would feel after each session probably was enough indication I had done enough.
I love the jellybean analogy 😁
hes right; look at everyone with injuries, surgeries, life time impairments; a lot of them being someone of YOUR fav people on the internet LOL God bless Mike, NO BS sorry if you don't like it! :)
Anyone think Jo Linder overtrained and over dieted? He definitely over caffeinated. He was such a “real dude” …. Always positive. Unlike that loudmouth little Napoleon in Canada. Hopefully they find out why he died. I don’t think anyone will learn anything and take precautions themselves, but I’d like to know personally. RIP Jo.
Defo overdieted from the pressure he put on himself to look chiselled 24/7
@@infinitystone6421 Vax doesn't go well with heavy training, that much is clear.
This was very interesting and I’m starting to see the benefits of rest. However, you get ppl like Arnie who stateside that he trained 3 to 4 hours a day ! So how does that work ? Surely he couldn’t have been training high intensity with every work out ??
Well some people have genetics for it. I seen clips of Mike talk about Genetics and the taking of performance enhancing substances. They usually help you recover faster so you can workout more. But most people who are natural can't handle that.
I swear to God I got almost heart attack doing overtraining at she of 25
overtraining leads to high blood pressure. high blood pressure leads to heart attacks, strokes and brain aneurysms. if your blood pressure is over 180/100 you are on the verge of having a heart attack. when you lift weights you are putting a stress on your body which leads to high blood pressure which will lead to a heart attack. you can lift weights and it is very good for you but when you over do it and dont allow your body at least 5 days of rest to get your blood pressure down you are asking for trouble, especially if you are continually overtraining over a very lengthy period of time ie a year.
Overtraining killed Jostetic (He was also probably on an absurd amount of anabolic drugs)
Who? What’s his full name?
The vaccine definitely didn't help him either, he talke dabout it on podcast with Bradley martin
Many factors most likely contributed to @xRaFFniX death. His lifestyle was far from healthy. Lately, bodybuilders are dropping like flies. Yes, overtraining is definitely a contributing factor.
Just the steroids. Professional athletes, who btw train much harder than bodybuilders aren't dropping at the age of 30.
@@WeSaveWe neither do they bulk up and cut down all the time. And anaerobic stress is different on your body. Steroids didn't help him, vaxxine did not either apparently, and I wonder how many other people have fucked up blood right now, and his low bodyfat definitely didn't help either. I was cutting down as natty to under 6% (took me half a year to achieve) and now I have chronic sinus infection for like 2 months already, apparently also had a lung infection which they saw in the hospital after I took a lung photo and my ears were infected as well. Normally I rarely ever got sick, doctor first didn't want to point to my period of cutting since I was natty , but after a couple of doctor visits down the lane he agreed with me it probably is due to training so intense on low calories for such a long time. Never again lmao. 10% at the most. It's not worth it to go any lower since you won't be able to enjoy life on lower than that. Even 10% takes pretty good dedication to maintain.
It’s easy to overtrain but if you follow Mikes training you won’t. It’s to intense
Gotta be careful. Did a leg workout today. Very slow reps of leg curls and got dizzy.
@@chrisweidner4768ust started and for lack of a better term, I’m basically lifting baby weight. However, with slow reps through positive, static and negative, on the most intense last reps I want to scream with all my might but don’t out of embarrassment and just try to continue lifting.
@@chrisweidner4768probably down to not staying hydrated or training with an empty stomach, make sure to be breathing during the sets and not moving your head or neck too much when doing the set and you should be able to train with the same intensity without the dizziness
@@vToneehhthat’s good, up the weight if you can and go for 6-10 rep range to failure for optimal hypertrophic results
@@mono5401 Thanks. I think it’s also the being 65 thing. 😁
I am not certain if I was ever overtraining, just training like shit. I was surely training way too frequently.
With this high intensity stuff I have found that if I get good at it the stress and shock to the body is alot. I can tend to do too much and go beyond where im about to pass out or puke, or throw in a drop set and get in beast mode. I took 2 weeks off and came back stronger so I loaded up all the weight stacks on the machines adequately and did alot of weight.
Others are probly wondering "wtf is he doing" because I dont look like a bodybuilder, if I did i'd get a pass. I like Mike, I also like Tom.
All this combined with a shit-ton of extra biking put me in Bed for 48 hours.
Thats why I train only every other day🙂
Try every 3 days and see how much better you feel and look.
I got Chronic Fatigue Syndrom (cfs/me) after years of overtraining - so he's right--
Even if you did overtrain did u still make good muscle gains? And hope your well now buddy👍💪
@@Liam266 Tnx for that! I trained both cardio as well a weights. It started when I about once every 2 months felt severely ill, like having influensa, after a workout. Interestingly it didn't occur until ~14 hours after a workout, because just after it I felt very well. Then, over the span of 3 years this gradually happened more and more frequently, once a month.. once every three weeks ... every 14 days .. every week.
At that stage, when testing the pulse on an ergometer-cycle (which I did regularly) the pulse - which previously had steadily decreased between each test (signalling that the heart pumped more blood with each beat, indicating better cardiovascularity) - instead started to increase between every test (bicycling at a resistance of constant 200 watts). More and more rapid each time when I tested at 200 watts workload. Then had to quit workouts. And thereupon had the crashes after doing simple menial household chores.. With incredible rapid pulse.
I should not have trained both cardio and weights, but concentrated on only one of them. + I turned 35 years old, then you have to be a little more careful. + Few years earlier I went thru a few days of mononucleosis (but after that very healthy, so forgot about it, however, the virus might have persisted, hidden somewhere and triggered by the intense training).
Now, finally, I'm better and started carefully exercising again. MSM supplement (biological sulphur) esp have helped tremendously. Also whey protein, beets & citrulline with gluthation.
So be aware of very unnatural fatigue after workouts, several world class athletes have contracted cfs.