Hi Geoff, there's also been a recent change getting the tube through central London to Heathrow. There is now a "Heathrow Surcharge" . You can get around this by tapping out at Hatton Cross. Anyone travelling to Heathrow whose journey begins in zone 1 or simply passes through zone 1 has a 'special' fare of £5.50 at all times. It used to be £3.50 off-peak. Therefore if you travel to the station before Heathrow which is Hatton Cross this higher fare doesn't apply (it only applies to LHR). The journey from Hatton Cross to Heathrow is free because it is used for people changing terminals (say T5 to T4). Therefore you have only paid £3.50 overall.
@@robdavies8702 I've just put Hatton Cross to Heathrow into TFL journey planner; Fastest by public transport Option 1: Piccadilly line, 11 minsDepart at:23:09 - Arrive at:23:20Total time:11minsCost of fare:free anytime
@@robdavies8702 This is a recent change (presumably introduced at the same time as the new Heathrow Piccadilly line surcharge?). Previously, normal tube fares were charged between Hatton Cross and Heathrow Terminals. Quite welcome as Hatton Cross is more convenient for many local bus routes than Heathrow Central.
In Sydney, we had a funny situation when the Govt brought in a weekly cap, after 10 trips in a week it was free to travel. The clever people would walk 300 meters from one stop to the next in the city & tap in & out during their lunch break on Monday for a one-stop fare then their longer trips were free for the rest of the week. The nightly news actually showed people tapping in & walking off to the next station. You could save 50% while it lasted.
LOVE IT! Landed at Manchester Airport back in 2018; went down the the kiosk near the train platforms and asked for a ticket on the Transpennine Express to Edinburgh Haymarket. The very nice lady helping me said I'll save ya a bit of money with two paper tickets; one was to Manchester, the other to Edinburgh Haymarket. She said just stay on the train and show the appropriate ticket. I think it saved about 12 pounds. Happy day!
I remember a McDonalds advert that suggested the cheapest way to Gatwick was to book your car into a garage near Horley for a minor defect repair (new wiper blade), and then pick it up two weeks later! It must have been in the 90s when that advert ran! I think it was part of a “money saving advice” campaign where they would boast how cheap they themselves were.
A friend of mine who is a football fan used to drive to matches and get his car valeted (which he would have done sooner or later anyway) at a nearby car wash place and pick it up after the match. Another wheeze of his was to book several hotels in several places if he didn't know exactly when or where he'd be travelling, all booked with cancellable bookings, then cancel them all including the one he wanted to use once he had decided, and rebook that one with the lower, non-cancellable price.
Geoff - James is a fantastic addition, and your continual happy nature is just great. This was a fantastic video. Informative, but still fun because of your personality.
Crosscountry is probably the richest source of split tickets! I once did a day return Nottingham to Cardiff central (an endurance test in its own right). This involved splits at Long Eaton, New Street, Cheltenham, and Gloucester. All on the same trains. Saved approximately £60
I'm amazed that Geoff and not a single person in the comments has mentioned ticket splitter. Like there are whole websites dedicated to calculating the cheapest fares by splitting tickets. Whenever I travel from Cornwall to Leeds I use split ticketing and have about 8 separate tickets and often save £40-50 in the process
One thing to bear in mind are for journeys over 75 miles. A very long time ago British Rail stopped cheap day returns for journeys over this distance. They were replaced with saver fares which were usually more expensive. It’s always worth checking. Birmingham to Sheffield was always worth splitting at Derby.
Why is it only 20 pounds to fly to Cork from Manchester for a day visit cheaper than anywhere to 66-75 percent of the whole mileage to Cork in comparison to what it does cost on a train in the UK? Dublin - Charleroi is 26 pounds and many more can be found under 50 pounds. (Worth to do a max of 80 pounds considering it's a plane and consider the destination) Crazy is it not?
Yup, used to do this coming cross country from Berkshire to Leeds… splitting at Banbury (to make use of my network card), Birmingham, Derby, Sheffield would save a fortune compared to the single RDG-LDS fare.
I met James at show bus last Sunday on the e400EV when there were some noisy kids at the back of the bus being annoying, thanks James for sorting them out.
No problem :) I didn’t want the risk of an accident causing none of the company buses to attend rallies in future, plus they were disturbing the other passengers
I use the double split for work now from Three Bridges to Gatwick and then the same as in the video. Costs me 1 train, about 5 minutes, at East Croydon but saves over £70 a month (travelling 10 days per month). It's even cheaper then the new flexis.
I love content like this...... It's so genuine. So honest...... In a world of 'UA-cam wannabe famous" idiots........ This is the antidote to all that is bad in the on-line world. Thanks lads The world needs more of you x
Yeah it's so nice and refreshing to see an open minded, tolerant and outgoing "straight cis male", which we hate upon in the community very often, at least in some circles. (which is toxic and unfair too btw). Love, like, dislike and hate people for the personality, and not purely their identity.
It would be interesting to do a cost vs time analysis. If you are in a rush, sometimes it is worth spending the $$$ for the direct connection if it means making the flight.
@@lisakaz35 oh for sure, I find these little loopholes really interesting I just factor in what your time is worth too. That said if I commuted constantly about 4 quid a day adds up FAST.
If you're in a rush, it's worth knowing that the Gatwick "Express" actually takes longer than the stopping train, so you can still save money and time by just paying the £9.
@@MakeItWithCalvin Yep. I like knowing of oddities of schedules and stuff. Ya never know when you run across a starving student who'd benefit from saving every little bit possible. When I was doing my PhD research and had a decent deal on a room for a week, I knew exactly when the first off-peak Tube train time was, so I could get from my location to research library near the Colindale stop (that was a branch of the British Library that housed periodicals in storage or microfilm). I tried to live on such a shoestring budget it wasn't funny. I sometimes feel like Monty Python's King Arthur getting info on swallows' migration patterns.
If you are carrying large or heavy luggage it would make sense to pay the extra £1.70 and get the direct train. (Not the outrageously priced GX of course!)
Thanks Geoff for pointing out the ridiculous fare structure. I know this is one of many from my trips from London to Exmouth. Splitting the journey without having to change trains, has saved me a lot of money in the past.
I do believe he’s single currently if you fancy your chances? Might be hard to bump into him mind. I suggest hanging around King Cross at all hours of the day in some sort of tight fitting skirt.
I now live in the Merseyside area (ex Surrey/SW London). If I look up fares to London from Liverpool it's just Avanti eyewatering fares, but if I do Liverpool-Crewe (using Avanti or LNWR) then Crewe-London I can get the LNWR only fare from Crewe, which can come including a Z1-6 Travelcard for only a couple of pounds more. It's far cheaper than the direct fare, I can leave from Liverpool earlier, even the peak fare to Crewe is reasonable. The journey time isn't bad from Crewe to Euston as the services are now direct and not via Northampton, as was the case in the past.
There are LNWR only fares from Liverpool/Runcorn etc. too. The connections between their Liverpool-Birmingham and Crewe-Euston services are generally decent. In most cases it's cross-platform or same-island at Crewe.
Southern trains can leave from Gatwick Express platforms 13&14. They do make you use the barriers on platform 12 to gain access to it. If your travelling GEX you use the barriers on 13&14.
I can't remember how much I saved as it was about 15 years ago but I remember it being quite a large amount but I travelled from Birmingham International down to Southampton Central and the ticket guy at the station sold us Birmingham- Banbury- Oxford- Southampton. Being able to stay on the same train as it stopped at those stations anyway. Also a few years before that there was mega train available from Southampton to Birmingham New Street and quite often got a fare of £1 each way. I miss those days of Mega Train.
Splitting at Banbury still works - I've done off peak singles from Derby to Oxford, splitting at Birmingham and Banbury and it saved me a few quid. Often you can get very cheap advance singles on that route if you split at Leamington Spa as well - I saved a fortune after my housemate let me in on that secret! Leamington Spa to Derby for ~£8 with a railcard if you get lucky
My commute from Leamington to Marylebone can be cheapest with a triple split sometimes! eg. split at Banbury, Haddenham and Thame, and High Wycombe (all staying on the same train)
Worth noting that, going off the TFL Single Fares Finder, there is no evening peak period to travel from Gatwick into London, unlike the reverse journey. I discovered this by accident coming home off a flight on a midweek evening using Contactless
I used to travel regularly in the morning peak from Euston to Milton Keynes. At one particular time window it was cheaper to buy a ticket to Northampton, which is further, on the same train but get off at MK. The barriers at MK would open and it was perfectly allowed. The reason was the same physical train was an off-peak when booked to Nton but peak to MK.
Yeah I have a weird train which from Didcot is a peak train to Bristol, Weston super mare and every station in that area except for Nailsea and Blackwell where it is off peak and substantially cheaper
I've noticed this on journeys into London - depending on whether it's peak, off-peak, or super off-peak it is sometimes more expensive to get, say, a ticket to tottenham hale instead of liverpool street (or finsbury park for kings cross), but at other times it's cheaper!
It's also the same with Heathrow via the Elizabeth Line - Paddington to Heathrow T4 is a flat £11.50, however if you go Paddington to Hayes & Harlington it's £3.40 off-peak, and tap back in at Hayes & Harlington to Heathrow T4 and that's £6.40 making it only £9.80 instead of the £11.50 saving you £1.70
From Kettering where I live, a peak 1 day travelcard is £123.50, but by splitting the journey at Luton Airport Parkway it is £33.90 Day return Kettering - Luton Airport Parkway and then £40.20 For a day travelcard from Luton Airport Parkway, saving £49.40. The same thing happens for just a standard return too, except that a return to/from Kettering will be to London Terminals {St Pancras) but the return from Luton Airport Parkway will be to London Thameslink (St Pancras, Farringdon, City Thameslink, Blackfriars) so you can actually travel further for less.
I save around £5 daily just by tapping in and out at upminster station when traveling by c2c, the reader is at the platform so on the journey back to Essex you can even get into the same train
Excellent video highlighting the absurdities of the railway fares in this country! For me, the cheapest way of getting to Gatwick is getting someone to drive me to the long stay car park (it’s only a couple of miles away!)
Back in 2000 I worked in Birmingham for a couple of years, tried the M6 for a week, didn't fancy that so Stoke to New Street it was 6.56 am . Tripped over the fact that a Stoke to Stafford and Stafford to New Street ticket was a pound cheaper each way, same train. Must have been BR trying to get more Stafford commuters on the train. A class 47 and coaches was ok to get a seat, but if a Voyager was on, Manchester to Bournemouth it was rammed to New Street then probably pretty empty after that.
In deciding whether to split, you need to ask yourself: does the through fare seem expensive? If Cross Country Trains are involved, it probably will. For large parts of their routes there will be other operators to depress the local fares, but for example Bristol to Birmingham there's little choice. Chelteham is usually a good point to split. Recently going from Exeter to Durham it was substantially cheaper to go via London. Much further, quicker (yes!) and cheaper.
Not only quicker but also nicer trains, less overcrowding, better catering and based on my experience at least, less likely to be late. CrossCountry has very little going for it in my opinion. Needs must if you're heading from the North East to Birmingham/West Mids stations though.
@@orientalmoons Have you tried Transpennine to Leeds, Sheffield or Manchester, then south from there? Or ECML to Peterborough and then west? That last bit would be slow, I admit.
that's so strange, that when I just arrived to live in London (exactly one year ago, more or less when the video was made) and found out that this is an extremely expensive city in terms of transportation fares, I played with a fare calculator and found out more or less the same thing: changing in East Croydon reduces the fare. But my way is even more tricky: I traveled from Wapping station by tapping out on West Croydon and tapping in on East Croydon (and 15 mins walking between them) - and the whole trip costs 2 + 3.7 off-peak (used to be even cheaper last year, probably below 5 pounds) Thanks for the video, will be waiting for new interesting money-saving lifehacks.
Great video. I'm going to Gatwick next month and I think I'll do this route, otherwise I have to pay nearly £40 to get from Victoria to Gatwick on the Gatwick express
its crazy that things like this exist, basically punshing customers who dont wanna look for splits, from what i gather this happens all over our the UK
It's almost like it's run for profit by competing companies who don't care to make it an integrated simple service for the customer and use tricks to make us pay more than we necessarily should. Oh...
It's not really punishing customers, because the UK train network isn't an integrated system any more, it's a bunch of competing companies with truly Byzantine fare structures that throw up oddities like this. It used to be so much simpler (and cheaper) under British Rail.
Some years ago, I was off to the US. So (from clapham Juntion) I got a cab to pick the family up, off to Heathrow. Proper cab, black cab. In we got, hurrah, I just check I have everything - all the passports, check the tickets. ARGGHHHH! It goes from Gatport Airwick! The cab driver didn't miss a beat. As it happened, the flight was 3 hour delayed we go stuck overnight in a blizzard in Atlanta; just one of those trips where everything went slightly wrong. But at least I read the bloody boarding card.
I did that returning from our first foreign trip, to Belgium. Kids in tow. Taxi at Victoria off the boat train, asked for Paddington. Half way there, I remembered we wanted Kings X. Driver, cool as. Round all kinds of back streets, got there with 5 minutes to spare. London Cabbies are awesome.
The East Croydon trick savings are bigger if you're going from a Zone 1 station via Victoria to Gatwick. The savings are also bigger if you're going from a Zone 2 station via Clapham Junction to Gatwick.
The most interesting fare discrepancy on this route, is the Redhill Hump, (and its sorry status where there has been a campaign including the woefully in effective MP Crispin Blunt), where fares from Gatwick or Coulsdon South can both be cheaper than from Redhill/Salfords/Earlswood. But you'd need to speak to a fares expert, I gave up of the unreliable and slow service a few years ago. They priced me back into the car.
Used to use the 'TrainPal' app when I was still in the UK, absolutely amazing app that works all this stuff out for you and gives you the cheapest ticket possible, just have to put in your start point and destination
My current favourite fare lunacy is Bath to Bicester via Didcot and Oxford for £22.80 off peak return but Bath to Dicot off peak return for £23.90. It’s cheaper to get to London via Bicester than Reading!
Good video Geoff and James. Could you split journey from zone 1 to heathrow by getting off at hatton cross leaving and tapping in again to get to Heathrow?
It would have been more realistic if you did this trip with luggage, which is what most people will have to deal with when going to Gatwick. An idea for a future video perhaps.
I honestly thought you would get a Pret Coffee since there one round the corner at East Croydon. I have found that Worcestershire Parkway has a good use for split ticketing if you want to get from Birmingham to Swindon/Cheltenham/Gloucester or even Bristol, Great Video
Some have mentioned difference between 2 x cheap day returns rather than saver return. The other issues this can offer is not just cheaper but also possibly using peak time trains
This video succinctly demonstrates the madness and chaos that is the British rail charging system. It's completely incomprehensible and needs a major overhaul. Likewise Manchester Picc to the Airport has about 6-7 fares for a single, a journey of around 5 miles. From 3.30 for a Northern ticket to over 5er for a TPE one with TFW coming in somewhere in the middle. It's an insane position we have got ourselves into. Funny videos are a great side effect don't get me wrong. Compare with the Netherlands however, one price and you don't need to split or be a clever dick on the internet. It needs sorting by government and soon!
If I'm not in a rush I just take the tram from Market Street, it's only £3.20 then, not that it's all that different. It's like 30-40mins ish on either. As a bonus it's much closer to where I get off the bus at Piccadilly Gardens which is nice when I have a big backpack and a carry on wheel suitcase! It's also more reliable in my experience haha. This kind of mess is why places like the Netherlands shine because it's publicly owned.
My 1/3 disabled railcard is the same price as the Netherlands train prices LOL Meanwhile in Ireland: disabled people travel for free on all public transportation.
There is a guy behind the counter at one of the railway stations near London who is a mine of information on split fares and must have saved his customers a fortune over the years. I have deliberately not mentioned the station or his name in case this prompts his employers to tell him to stop doing this. It is quite depressing that the fare structure in much of Great Britain is so labyrinthine although a plan to simplify fares was announced about a year ago - but wonder if it will ever see the light of day. P.S. I understand that Geoff is 6'3" or 6'4" so however tall is James?!
East Croydon is intriguing, it must have the best London service of any station anywhere. I've just counted 26 trains to London stations in the next hour!
southerns metro routes technically are 5 coaches but it’s told in a misleading way. the only ones are london bridge - east croydon and london bridge - beckenham junction, not all of them. first class is declassified when the train is full
For children it's a little confusing you could use their zip, but on some zips its the only journey it would be charged for so it's not really worth loaded money on it
I have just done a fare calculation starting at a zone 4 South Western railway station, changing at Clapham Junction, splitng at East Croydon. Fare was 3.10 + 3.50 so 6.60 in total The same route from zone 4 to Gatwick without splitting is showing as 9 pounds. I wonder if using the validators on Southern platforms at Clapham Junction would make a difference Decent hack !!!
There is a zone 6 boundaries Where you can buy cousldon station to Gatwick airport £4.50 it even works for Brighton for £18.00 isn’t it good value From the ticket conter at London Victoria but you have to prove you have zone 6 ticket
I did Christchurch, Dorset to Telford, Shropshire via New Street, a few years ago using a split ticketing site and ended up with about five different tickets.
Hello Geoff, will you be doing a video about the Oxford Station improvement works? If you are, I am more than welcome to help! The new 'Varsity Line' should be open by the end of 2023ish.
You can avoid the Heathrow always-charge-peak when you go to Zone 1 by doing a tap out and tap in at Ealing Broadway. You can save more than in this video!
Andrew Wade It's worth adding that if you link your railcard to your Oyster card you'll get a further third off these bargain fares. It can be done at any overground or underground station in London or a travel centre as far as I'm aware. It's not possible to link your railcard to your contactless card.
I've found that by splitting I could get advance fares that didn't exist for my full journey. E.g. Wakefield to Loughborough - something like £46 return. Split at Sheffield and Advance single SHF - Loughborough is £7 or £8 and a cheap day return Wakefield to Sheffield is around £10 (sorry I don't memorise exact fares). Or Glasgow - Wakefield. Buy Edinburgh - Leeds separately and it gives you advance fare options but for the full route it does not.
I think ECR is way better to split especially because, when I've hit the cap on my contactlesd, why would I spend extra by then paying for the remaining zones to 6? If I go Brighton, I usually split at ECR. Same with LGW, I split at ECR.
Hey geoff if you ever want to ride a pacer again then the East kent railway in sheperdswell has 2 or 3 pacers and I think at least one of them is a 142 with the original bus style seats.
when I used to work in Guildford it would save me £2 to get a return to Farncombe from Aldershot in Peak times rather than a standard return - one stop further, never went there
I lived in Farncombe (a station south of Guildford) and was option surprised that my fare going north was oftern less than if I caught the train from Guildford.
Just looked at the TFL website and it says the following £11.50 Gatwick to Victoria (off peak) £3.50 Gatwick to East Croydon (off peak) £5.40 East Croydon to Victoria (off peak) Correct as off January 10th 2023
Try contactless from an outer zone via London Bridge to Gatwick. Cheaper than your journey I think because no need to zap in and out at London Bridge. I started at Chislehurst.
@@OneKnifeYeHand Not in the US. Public transit may be limited but what does exist is very straight forward. There is one price, one service, one schedule, one operator. That's it.
In Melbourne Australia on Gippsland line, it cost $18.40 to go from Warragul to southern Cross. But if you split the trip at Pakenham. Tap off/ tap on the trip will only cost you $10.34 and you use the same train 😂
Hang on? The train hangs around at Pakenham long enough to do that? Plus the conductor let you back on? Pakenham is on the timetable as drop-off only on the inbound timetable
@@rod.h8064 yeah when vlines arrives in Pakenham, they stop for 1-5mins waiting for there gap in the metro network. Conductor don't care because of the volume of metro people jumping onto the train because it gets to the city in half the time
Same. Via Clapham is so much more expensive. Then again Southern is cheap but only gets me there 20% of the time 😂 I remember in January coming back to Southampton that there was an issue on the line so had to do Gatwick- Brighton- Southampton..... which ended up being Gatwick- Brighton- Barham- Fratton- Southampton. almost 4 hours long 😂
My local station is Whitechapel and if I change at Farringdon instead of Blackfriars going to Gatwick the system charges an avoiding zone 1 fare as you don't go through any barriers
so glad we got a unified ticketing system in Denmark so we no longer have to deal with crap like this. Our problems were more going across country rather than a city, but we had situations where going on a massive detour and taking a ferry could be cheaper than a direct train because that ferry was a different operator, and yet take about as long. And before the unification every region had its own zone and ticketing systems with greatly varying prices, so it was a massive ballache if you were to travel away from the national rail
Unified ticketing system doesn't prevent this stuff from happening. Here in the Netherlands, we have a unified ticketing system too (OV-chipkaart), but these anomalies still happen over here.
James is the kind of dude you wish was working in the ticket booking office, sorting you out the best fare with his encyclopedic knowledge.
Hi Geoff, there's also been a recent change getting the tube through central London to Heathrow. There is now a "Heathrow Surcharge" . You can get around this by tapping out at Hatton Cross.
Anyone travelling to Heathrow whose journey begins in zone 1 or simply passes through zone 1 has a 'special' fare of £5.50 at all times. It used to be £3.50 off-peak. Therefore if you travel to the station before Heathrow which is Hatton Cross this higher fare doesn't apply (it only applies to LHR). The journey from Hatton Cross to Heathrow is free because it is used for people changing terminals (say T5 to T4). Therefore you have only paid £3.50 overall.
GREAT HACK AHHHH thank you!
Isn’t it that you can travel VIA Hatton Cross for free when changing terminals, but you are charged if tapping in/out there?
@@robdavies8702 I've just put Hatton Cross to Heathrow into TFL journey planner;
Fastest by public transport
Option 1: Piccadilly line, 11 minsDepart at:23:09 - Arrive at:23:20Total time:11minsCost of fare:free anytime
@@priorktj in which case I stand corrected!
@@robdavies8702 This is a recent change (presumably introduced at the same time as the new Heathrow Piccadilly line surcharge?). Previously, normal tube fares were charged between Hatton Cross and Heathrow Terminals. Quite welcome as Hatton Cross is more convenient for many local bus routes than Heathrow Central.
Geoff is an icon for balancing the coffee, Oyster Card and the Camera.
he has mad skillz.
@@SamSitar defo agree
And there's me thinking that the coffee was the star of the show.....
Surely someone has designed a reusable coffee cup with an Oyster card holder built in?
It’ll no doubt be a Tea
In Sydney, we had a funny situation when the Govt brought in a weekly cap, after 10 trips in a week it was free to travel. The clever people would walk 300 meters from one stop to the next in the city & tap in & out during their lunch break on Monday for a one-stop fare then their longer trips were free for the rest of the week. The nightly news actually showed people tapping in & walking off to the next station. You could save 50% while it lasted.
LOL! Made my day!
Presumably they stopped it because they didn't like the fact people were using it to save money.
lol how was this not foreseen. Our weekly caps are based on price (max spend), not number of journeys.
@@Abi-bi6cb NSW now does daily and weekly price caps, but you also get half off the fare if you make a certain amount of journeys in a week.
James is brilliant. I haven’t been to a bus rally where James wasn’t a controller. He just keeps everything running smoothly.
I see him at all of them 🤣
LOVE IT! Landed at Manchester Airport back in 2018; went down the the kiosk near the train platforms and asked for a ticket on the Transpennine Express to Edinburgh Haymarket. The very nice lady helping me said I'll save ya a bit of money with two paper tickets; one was to Manchester, the other to Edinburgh Haymarket. She said just stay on the train and show the appropriate ticket. I think it saved about 12 pounds. Happy day!
I remember a McDonalds advert that suggested the cheapest way to Gatwick was to book your car into a garage near Horley for a minor defect repair (new wiper blade), and then pick it up two weeks later! It must have been in the 90s when that advert ran! I think it was part of a “money saving advice” campaign where they would boast how cheap they themselves were.
A friend of mine who is a football fan used to drive to matches and get his car valeted (which he would have done sooner or later anyway) at a nearby car wash place and pick it up after the match. Another wheeze of his was to book several hotels in several places if he didn't know exactly when or where he'd be travelling, all booked with cancellable bookings, then cancel them all including the one he wanted to use once he had decided, and rebook that one with the lower, non-cancellable price.
Geoff - James is a fantastic addition, and your continual happy nature is just great. This was a fantastic video. Informative, but still fun because of your personality.
Crosscountry is probably the richest source of split tickets! I once did a day return Nottingham to Cardiff central (an endurance test in its own right). This involved splits at Long Eaton, New Street, Cheltenham, and Gloucester. All on the same trains. Saved approximately £60
I'm amazed that Geoff and not a single person in the comments has mentioned ticket splitter. Like there are whole websites dedicated to calculating the cheapest fares by splitting tickets. Whenever I travel from Cornwall to Leeds I use split ticketing and have about 8 separate tickets and often save £40-50 in the process
Hi Geoff, I used to run ticket office courses for a TOC. I can tell you lots of similar journeys with fare anomalies.
James is what trains is all about
Many People don't get it, but his passion is what it means
Thank you Geoff for bringing him to my attention
Agreed! He is so awesome!
One thing to bear in mind are for journeys over 75 miles. A very long time ago British Rail stopped cheap day returns for journeys over this distance. They were replaced with saver fares which were usually more expensive. It’s always worth checking. Birmingham to Sheffield was always worth splitting at Derby.
Why is it only 20 pounds to fly to Cork from Manchester for a day visit cheaper than anywhere to 66-75 percent of the whole mileage to Cork in comparison to what it does cost on a train in the UK? Dublin - Charleroi is 26 pounds and many more can be found under 50 pounds. (Worth to do a max of 80 pounds considering it's a plane and consider the destination)
Crazy is it not?
If going from Birmingham to Sheffield you should check out Birmingham to Burton on Trent then Derbyshire Wayfarer
Yup, used to do this coming cross country from Berkshire to Leeds… splitting at Banbury (to make use of my network card), Birmingham, Derby, Sheffield would save a fortune compared to the single RDG-LDS fare.
I met James at show bus last Sunday on the e400EV when there were some noisy kids at the back of the bus being annoying, thanks James for sorting them out.
No problem :) I didn’t want the risk of an accident causing none of the company buses to attend rallies in future, plus they were disturbing the other passengers
@@metrowake11 If we could clone you and have one on every bus/train to sort out the numpties that would be great.
I use the double split for work now from Three Bridges to Gatwick and then the same as in the video. Costs me 1 train, about 5 minutes, at East Croydon but saves over £70 a month (travelling 10 days per month). It's even cheaper then the new flexis.
I love content like this......
It's so genuine. So honest......
In a world of 'UA-cam wannabe famous" idiots........ This is the antidote to all that is bad in the on-line world.
Thanks lads
The world needs more of you x
My wife first eye rolls when I tell her I'm watching this, but she will be the first in line to use this technique!! Great work guys!
nice to see the variety of Geoff's friends, would love to have someone in my network doing this kind of thing! very helpful!
Yeah it's so nice and refreshing to see an open minded, tolerant and outgoing "straight cis male", which we hate upon in the community very often, at least in some circles. (which is toxic and unfair too btw). Love, like, dislike and hate people for the personality, and not purely their identity.
@@offichannelnurnberg5894 live and learn as I myself fall into this category 😇
There is so much knowledge in this comment section than anywhere else and i love it. great video
It would be interesting to do a cost vs time analysis. If you are in a rush, sometimes it is worth spending the $$$ for the direct connection if it means making the flight.
Or how much do you value the extra minutes of sleep/shower/whatever?
@@lisakaz35 oh for sure, I find these little loopholes really interesting I just factor in what your time is worth too. That said if I commuted constantly about 4 quid a day adds up FAST.
If you're in a rush, it's worth knowing that the Gatwick "Express" actually takes longer than the stopping train, so you can still save money and time by just paying the £9.
@@MakeItWithCalvin Yep. I like knowing of oddities of schedules and stuff. Ya never know when you run across a starving student who'd benefit from saving every little bit possible. When I was doing my PhD research and had a decent deal on a room for a week, I knew exactly when the first off-peak Tube train time was, so I could get from my location to research library near the Colindale stop (that was a branch of the British Library that housed periodicals in storage or microfilm). I tried to live on such a shoestring budget it wasn't funny. I sometimes feel like Monty Python's King Arthur getting info on swallows' migration patterns.
If you are carrying large or heavy luggage it would make sense to pay the extra £1.70 and get the direct train. (Not the outrageously priced GX of course!)
Thanks Geoff for pointing out the ridiculous fare structure. I know this is one of many from my trips from London to Exmouth. Splitting the journey without having to change trains, has saved me a lot of money in the past.
I love that high angle in the corner of the train Geoff your creativity never ceases honestly!
Geoff the TV presenter we deserve. Knowledgeable, personable and obviously a genuinely nice guy with a passion for trains.
I do believe he’s single currently if you fancy your chances?
Might be hard to bump into him mind. I suggest hanging around King Cross at all hours of the day in some sort of tight fitting skirt.
I now live in the Merseyside area (ex Surrey/SW London). If I look up fares to London from Liverpool it's just Avanti eyewatering fares, but if I do Liverpool-Crewe (using Avanti or LNWR) then Crewe-London I can get the LNWR only fare from Crewe, which can come including a Z1-6 Travelcard for only a couple of pounds more. It's far cheaper than the direct fare, I can leave from Liverpool earlier, even the peak fare to Crewe is reasonable. The journey time isn't bad from Crewe to Euston as the services are now direct and not via Northampton, as was the case in the past.
There are LNWR only fares from Liverpool/Runcorn etc. too. The connections between their Liverpool-Birmingham and Crewe-Euston services are generally decent. In most cases it's cross-platform or same-island at Crewe.
Southern trains can leave from Gatwick Express platforms 13&14. They do make you use the barriers on platform 12 to gain access to it. If your travelling GEX you use the barriers on 13&14.
Your account seems to have been hacked by the Southern Rail Network.
Omg we need James in more videos! He’s awesome! 👏🏽
I can't remember how much I saved as it was about 15 years ago but I remember it being quite a large amount but I travelled from Birmingham International down to Southampton Central and the ticket guy at the station sold us Birmingham- Banbury- Oxford- Southampton. Being able to stay on the same train as it stopped at those stations anyway. Also a few years before that there was mega train available from Southampton to Birmingham New Street and quite often got a fare of £1 each way. I miss those days of Mega Train.
Splitting at Banbury still works - I've done off peak singles from Derby to Oxford, splitting at Birmingham and Banbury and it saved me a few quid. Often you can get very cheap advance singles on that route if you split at Leamington Spa as well - I saved a fortune after my housemate let me in on that secret! Leamington Spa to Derby for ~£8 with a railcard if you get lucky
My commute from Leamington to Marylebone can be cheapest with a triple split sometimes! eg. split at Banbury, Haddenham and Thame, and High Wycombe (all staying on the same train)
Worth noting that, going off the TFL Single Fares Finder, there is no evening peak period to travel from Gatwick into London, unlike the reverse journey. I discovered this by accident coming home off a flight on a midweek evening using Contactless
Generally (LHR Excepted) Evening Peak fares only apply out of London Z1 , not into London z1 (but appear ? to apply if going into Z2 etc )
Yes, journeys from anywhere outside zone 1 ending in zone 1 are charged off-peak in the evening peak.
@@highpath4776 Yes the evening peak doesn't apply when going into zone 1, but it does apply when going out of zone 1 and when avoiding zone 1!
That's a pretty decent saving and over a year, it all adds up. Great little workaround James and Geoff!
I used to travel regularly in the morning peak from Euston to Milton Keynes. At one particular time window it was cheaper to buy a ticket to Northampton, which is further, on the same train but get off at MK. The barriers at MK would open and it was perfectly allowed. The reason was the same physical train was an off-peak when booked to Nton but peak to MK.
Yeah I have a weird train which from Didcot is a peak train to Bristol, Weston super mare and every station in that area except for Nailsea and Blackwell where it is off peak and substantially cheaper
I've noticed this on journeys into London - depending on whether it's peak, off-peak, or super off-peak it is sometimes more expensive to get, say, a ticket to tottenham hale instead of liverpool street (or finsbury park for kings cross), but at other times it's cheaper!
It's also the same with Heathrow via the Elizabeth Line - Paddington to Heathrow T4 is a flat £11.50, however if you go Paddington to Hayes & Harlington it's £3.40 off-peak, and tap back in at Hayes & Harlington to Heathrow T4 and that's £6.40 making it only £9.80 instead of the £11.50 saving you £1.70
jumping off a train for 3 pound is long
Omg I should've known this!! Will try it the next time I'm in Heathrow lizzie
Oh! So Jay gave back your soul! Nice!
From Kettering where I live, a peak 1 day travelcard is £123.50, but by splitting the journey at Luton Airport Parkway it is £33.90 Day return Kettering - Luton Airport Parkway and then £40.20 For a day travelcard from Luton Airport Parkway, saving £49.40.
The same thing happens for just a standard return too, except that a return to/from Kettering will be to London Terminals {St Pancras) but the return from Luton Airport Parkway will be to London Thameslink (St Pancras, Farringdon, City Thameslink, Blackfriars) so you can actually travel further for less.
I travelled from Reading to Gatwick often. I never paid a fare and I always got a seat. It was the one with the best view too.
You were the driver?
I save around £5 daily just by tapping in and out at upminster station when traveling by c2c, the reader is at the platform so on the journey back to Essex you can even get into the same train
Omg I should've tried this 😂 but in Essex they have gated platforms as well
@@justmeajah you buy ticket from your station to Upminster and then continue your journey on Oyster card
@@greatoxcroft5692 oh wow!! Will try this!!
Excellent video highlighting the absurdities of the railway fares in this country!
For me, the cheapest way of getting to Gatwick is getting someone to drive me to the long stay car park (it’s only a couple of miles away!)
Back in 2000 I worked in Birmingham for a couple of years, tried the M6 for a week, didn't fancy that so Stoke to New Street it was 6.56 am .
Tripped over the fact that a Stoke to Stafford and Stafford to New Street ticket was a pound cheaper each way, same train.
Must have been BR trying to get more Stafford commuters on the train.
A class 47 and coaches was ok to get a seat, but if a Voyager was on, Manchester to Bournemouth it was rammed to New Street then probably pretty empty after that.
If I ever have to go to Gatwick, I will remember that Geoff’s videos always have my back lol
In deciding whether to split, you need to ask yourself: does the through fare seem expensive? If Cross Country Trains are involved, it probably will. For large parts of their routes there will be other operators to depress the local fares, but for example Bristol to Birmingham there's little choice. Chelteham is usually a good point to split. Recently going from Exeter to Durham it was substantially cheaper to go via London. Much further, quicker (yes!) and cheaper.
Not only quicker but also nicer trains, less overcrowding, better catering and based on my experience at least, less likely to be late. CrossCountry has very little going for it in my opinion. Needs must if you're heading from the North East to Birmingham/West Mids stations though.
@@orientalmoons Have you tried Transpennine to Leeds, Sheffield or Manchester, then south from there? Or ECML to Peterborough and then west? That last bit would be slow, I admit.
James seems like a top bloke. Great video, the £20 odd fare for Gatwick Express I’m cynically going to say exists to rip off tourists.
split tickets is cheaper using national rail as well. Clapham junction to Gatwick discounted is £10.40 single, but split at east croydon is £6.98
Great to see James on the channel.
Thanks James (and Geoff), really brilliant explanation. And so helpful cos Gatwick's a journey I do loads. Great video 👌
that's so strange, that when I just arrived to live in London (exactly one year ago, more or less when the video was made) and found out that this is an extremely expensive city in terms of transportation fares, I played with a fare calculator and found out more or less the same thing: changing in East Croydon reduces the fare. But my way is even more tricky: I traveled from Wapping station by tapping out on West Croydon and tapping in on East Croydon (and 15 mins walking between them) - and the whole trip costs 2 + 3.7 off-peak (used to be even cheaper last year, probably below 5 pounds)
Thanks for the video, will be waiting for new interesting money-saving lifehacks.
Great video. I'm going to Gatwick next month and I think I'll do this route, otherwise I have to pay nearly £40 to get from Victoria to Gatwick on the Gatwick express
its crazy that things like this exist, basically punshing customers who dont wanna look for splits, from what i gather this happens all over our the UK
Once they see this it will soon be closed down.
Not only in the UK. I've witnessed this in Germany as well.
It's almost like it's run for profit by competing companies who don't care to make it an integrated simple service for the customer and use tricks to make us pay more than we necessarily should. Oh...
@@TalesOfWar So these never existed under British Rail?
It's not really punishing customers, because the UK train network isn't an integrated system any more, it's a bunch of competing companies with truly Byzantine fare structures that throw up oddities like this. It used to be so much simpler (and cheaper) under British Rail.
Some years ago, I was off to the US. So (from clapham Juntion) I got a cab to pick the family up, off to Heathrow. Proper cab, black cab.
In we got, hurrah, I just check I have everything - all the passports, check the tickets. ARGGHHHH! It goes from Gatport Airwick!
The cab driver didn't miss a beat.
As it happened, the flight was 3 hour delayed we go stuck overnight in a blizzard in Atlanta; just one of those trips where everything went slightly wrong. But at least I read the bloody boarding card.
🤣
I did that returning from our first foreign trip, to Belgium. Kids in tow. Taxi at Victoria off the boat train, asked for Paddington. Half way there, I remembered we wanted Kings X.
Driver, cool as. Round all kinds of back streets, got there with 5 minutes to spare. London Cabbies are awesome.
I use to work with James, nicest and most decent guy you could ever meet! Great vid!
The East Croydon trick savings are bigger if you're going from a Zone 1 station via Victoria to Gatwick. The savings are also bigger if you're going from a Zone 2 station via Clapham Junction to Gatwick.
happy 9th anniversary of your Tube Challenge world record, Geoff!!!!
The most interesting fare discrepancy on this route, is the Redhill Hump, (and its sorry status where there has been a campaign including the woefully in effective MP Crispin Blunt), where fares from Gatwick or Coulsdon South can both be cheaper than from Redhill/Salfords/Earlswood. But you'd need to speak to a fares expert, I gave up of the unreliable and slow service a few years ago. They priced me back into the car.
If you're travelling from Birmingham to Oxford you can save a huge amount by splitting your ticket, usually at Banbury if I remember correctly.
Used to use the 'TrainPal' app when I was still in the UK, absolutely amazing app that works all this stuff out for you and gives you the cheapest ticket possible, just have to put in your start point and destination
Nice one that guy really knows his numbers 👍
Saw your great performance of Frank Pick on Jay Foreman's latest upload.
My current favourite fare lunacy is Bath to Bicester via Didcot and Oxford for £22.80 off peak return but Bath to Dicot off peak return for £23.90. It’s cheaper to get to London via Bicester than Reading!
Good video Geoff and James.
Could you split journey from zone 1 to heathrow by getting off at hatton cross leaving and tapping in again to get to Heathrow?
It would have been more realistic if you did this trip with luggage, which is what most people will have to deal with when going to Gatwick. An idea for a future video perhaps.
I honestly thought you would get a Pret Coffee since there one round the corner at East Croydon. I have found that Worcestershire Parkway has a good use for split ticketing if you want to get from Birmingham to Swindon/Cheltenham/Gloucester or even Bristol, Great Video
what an editing, and what a content.. marvelous as usual. thanks geoff. ❤️ from a rail fan in 🇮🇳
Some have mentioned difference between 2 x cheap day returns rather than saver return. The other issues this can offer is not just cheaper but also possibly using peak time trains
This video succinctly demonstrates the madness and chaos that is the British rail charging system. It's completely incomprehensible and needs a major overhaul. Likewise Manchester Picc to the Airport has about 6-7 fares for a single, a journey of around 5 miles. From 3.30 for a Northern ticket to over 5er for a TPE one with TFW coming in somewhere in the middle. It's an insane position we have got ourselves into. Funny videos are a great side effect don't get me wrong. Compare with the Netherlands however, one price and you don't need to split or be a clever dick on the internet. It needs sorting by government and soon!
If I'm not in a rush I just take the tram from Market Street, it's only £3.20 then, not that it's all that different. It's like 30-40mins ish on either. As a bonus it's much closer to where I get off the bus at Piccadilly Gardens which is nice when I have a big backpack and a carry on wheel suitcase! It's also more reliable in my experience haha. This kind of mess is why places like the Netherlands shine because it's publicly owned.
My 1/3 disabled railcard is the same price as the Netherlands train prices LOL
Meanwhile in Ireland: disabled people travel for free on all public transportation.
There is a guy behind the counter at one of the railway stations near London who is a mine of information on split fares and must have saved his customers a fortune over the years. I have deliberately not mentioned the station or his name in case this prompts his employers to tell him to stop doing this. It is quite depressing that the fare structure in much of Great Britain is so labyrinthine although a plan to simplify fares was announced about a year ago - but wonder if it will ever see the light of day.
P.S. I understand that Geoff is 6'3" or 6'4" so however tall is James?!
East Croydon is intriguing, it must have the best London service of any station anywhere. I've just counted 26 trains to London stations in the next hour!
southerns metro routes technically are 5 coaches but it’s told in a misleading way. the only ones are london bridge - east croydon and london bridge - beckenham junction, not all of them. first class is declassified when the train is full
Double or triple splits are quite common on CrossCountry trains, particularly those South-North Voyagers via BHM. You can save quite a bit!
Avoiding fares priced by that awful company is nearly always cheaper, avoiding their awful trains (HSTs excepted) is also a good idea.
@@alang5764 I know, when I travel from the ECML to the GWML via London on LNER and GWR
⚡ *He needs his own channel!* Knows his stuff 🤙🏼🤙🏼
For children it's a little confusing you could use their zip, but on some zips its the only journey it would be charged for so it's not really worth loaded money on it
I have just done a fare calculation starting at a zone 4 South Western railway station, changing at Clapham Junction, splitng at East Croydon. Fare was 3.10 + 3.50 so 6.60 in total
The same route from zone 4 to Gatwick without splitting is showing as 9 pounds.
I wonder if using the validators on Southern platforms at Clapham Junction would make a difference
Decent hack !!!
There is a zone 6 boundaries
Where you can buy cousldon station to Gatwick airport £4.50 it even works for Brighton for £18.00 isn’t it good value
From the ticket conter at London Victoria but you have to prove you have zone 6 ticket
Hi Frank Pick
I was sure that somebody will do that 😂
🤣
LOL
This is geoff's life now
He's been reanimated.
Ha! This just came up the night before I've to go to Gatwick. Thanks Geoff (and James)!
Love the IOW Beer and Buses badge James is wearing
Genius. It would take three years at least for the company to invoke your value countermeasures and stiff you for another ten quid. Love it.
I did Christchurch, Dorset to Telford, Shropshire via New Street, a few years ago using a split ticketing site and ended up with about five different tickets.
James is the bees knees! One of life’s good guys.
Hello Geoff, will you be doing a video about the Oxford Station improvement works? If you are, I am more than welcome to help! The new 'Varsity Line' should be open by the end of 2023ish.
Brilliant video, thank you Geoff and James!
You can avoid the Heathrow always-charge-peak when you go to Zone 1 by doing a tap out and tap in at Ealing Broadway. You can save more than in this video!
Will try this!!!!
Andrew Wade
It's worth adding that if you link your railcard to your Oyster card you'll get a further third off these bargain fares. It can be done at any overground or underground station in London or a travel centre as far as I'm aware. It's not possible to link your railcard to your contactless card.
Yes, I'm thinking of Geoff should've had one of these rail cards!!!
I've found that by splitting I could get advance fares that didn't exist for my full journey. E.g. Wakefield to Loughborough - something like £46 return. Split at Sheffield and Advance single SHF - Loughborough is £7 or £8 and a cheap day return Wakefield to Sheffield is around £10 (sorry I don't memorise exact fares).
Or Glasgow - Wakefield. Buy Edinburgh - Leeds separately and it gives you advance fare options but for the full route it does not.
As the title says ‘The Cheapest way to get to Gatwick airport’ technically it will be walking as it doesn’t say by any form of transport hehe
Love James’ badges!!
I’m going to Gatwick Sunday morning, having to get the coach because of the strikes 😮
Nice vid Frank!
I think ECR is way better to split especially because, when I've hit the cap on my contactlesd, why would I spend extra by then paying for the remaining zones to 6? If I go Brighton, I usually split at ECR. Same with LGW, I split at ECR.
I once used a split ticket site for Paddington to Cardiff Central, it split twice, which I think was at Reading and Bristol Parkway.
I really enjoyed this video. James was also excellent.
Hey geoff if you ever want to ride a pacer again then the East kent railway in sheperdswell has 2 or 3 pacers and I think at least one of them is a 142 with the original bus style seats.
when I used to work in Guildford it would save me £2 to get a return to Farncombe from Aldershot in Peak times rather than a standard return - one stop further, never went there
I lived in Farncombe (a station south of Guildford) and was option surprised that my fare going north was oftern less than if I caught the train from Guildford.
Just looked at the TFL website and it says the following
£11.50 Gatwick to Victoria (off peak)
£3.50 Gatwick to East Croydon (off peak)
£5.40 East Croydon to Victoria (off peak)
Correct as off January 10th 2023
Geoff the only guy to get excited going to Gatwick and not going on holiday lol
Try contactless from an outer zone via London Bridge to Gatwick. Cheaper than your journey I think because no need to zap in and out at London Bridge. I started at Chislehurst.
Unbelievably complicated. I can't imagine people in many other countries putting up with such a complex system.
These anomalies exist in at least the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany and the US too.
@@OneKnifeYeHand Not in the US. Public transit may be limited but what does exist is very straight forward. There is one price, one service, one schedule, one operator. That's it.
In Melbourne Australia on Gippsland line, it cost $18.40 to go from Warragul to southern Cross. But if you split the trip at Pakenham. Tap off/ tap on the trip will only cost you $10.34 and you use the same train 😂
Hang on? The train hangs around at Pakenham long enough to do that? Plus the conductor let you back on? Pakenham is on the timetable as drop-off only on the inbound timetable
@@rod.h8064 yeah when vlines arrives in Pakenham, they stop for 1-5mins waiting for there gap in the metro network. Conductor don't care because of the volume of metro people jumping onto the train because it gets to the city in half the time
not a split but living on the SWT line i have always used via Barnham tickets to get to Gatwick. so much cheaper and easier than via clapham.
Same. Via Clapham is so much more expensive. Then again Southern is cheap but only gets me there 20% of the time 😂 I remember in January coming back to Southampton that there was an issue on the line so had to do Gatwick- Brighton- Southampton..... which ended up being Gatwick- Brighton- Barham- Fratton- Southampton. almost 4 hours long 😂
James is ace. More please.
My local station is Whitechapel and if I change at Farringdon instead of Blackfriars going to Gatwick the system charges an avoiding zone 1 fare as you don't go through any barriers
Wow
Caught the train from Stevenage to Brighton via Gatwick airport 1st class 2 wks ago. Cost us nothing, cause no one checks..lol
so glad we got a unified ticketing system in Denmark so we no longer have to deal with crap like this. Our problems were more going across country rather than a city, but we had situations where going on a massive detour and taking a ferry could be cheaper than a direct train because that ferry was a different operator, and yet take about as long. And before the unification every region had its own zone and ticketing systems with greatly varying prices, so it was a massive ballache if you were to travel away from the national rail
Unified ticketing system doesn't prevent this stuff from happening. Here in the Netherlands, we have a unified ticketing system too (OV-chipkaart), but these anomalies still happen over here.