$4000 vs. $6000 Headphones - Audeze LCD-5 vs HiFiMan Susvara
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- Опубліковано 19 жов 2021
- Audeze's LCD-5 headphones are one of the best new headphones released in 2021. In 2022, how do they hold up to one of the best pairs of headphones ever made, the HiFiMan Susvaras?
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The APOS cable used on the Susvaras:
www.hear.audio/go/APOS
HiFiMan Susvaras:
www.hear.audio/go/Susvara
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Way to go, Amos!! Thank you and well done. You help the buying perspective to be greater and more understanding why these headphones cost the amount that they do. ;)
You put everything into its context, great video. I agree to make some headphones sing you really have to dig deep for a good amp and DAC. And at the end of the day, that's still down to personal preference. My LCD2f is now pretty much at its peak with the neo idsd as a DAC and the violectric V200 to drive it. I can really tell when for example some Dream Theater recordings lack depth. Their Falling Into Infinity album is still a joy to hear and kinda contrasts in quality with a few albums coming after.
Thanks for this comparison Amos
I think it would be cool to see a video about dealers, how to negotiate discounts, how much of a discount to expect, etc.
Thanks for the review, very happy with my zmf verite open currently, hoping to go for the hugo 2 soon.
i'm looking to pair my Verite with Denafrips
Thanks for the comparison and good to see how you are driving both headphones. I have a 1266 as my main headphone and just ordered an lcd-5 through the trade in program so am looking forward to seeing how they compare.
Same I have the phi tc and looking hard at the lcd5 as my 2nd flagship
I wished he'd put in utopia as well 😁
@i-mm-o res d8000 pro.. And one headphone named solitaire everyone comes up with..
Have you tried a Benchmark AHB2 to power the Susvara? Or something with a Purifi Eigentakt technology?
A video that reminds me there are levels to this hobby. Informative and oddly frightening review. The more you said "optimum" the more I winced due to the cost involved with that word. I'm happy to enjoy these things vicariously, thanks for allowing me to do so ✌️
Buy 650/Sundara and a shiit stack. If you really want to splurge buy and lcd-x
same with any hobby... hifi, cars, cameras, wines.... all are black holes once got sucked in, really hard to get out
I love how these $4K-$6K headphones can still sound annoying.
I think the target for a lot of these end game headphones is a unnaturally natural sound over an enjoyable sound so... it's kind of a living contradiction as the source won't be flawless so it's a bit of well... a different flavor I guess
One thing I was hoping you might address (and maybe you did by implication): do the LCD-5's have that thick, creamy low end that Audeze isfamous for or have they really eliminated that sound signature? I ask because I'm a Susvara owner and I find the bass to be a bit anemic and lacking in impact. (In case you're wondering, I'm running the Susvaras throug a pretty optimal setup: high-end powerful speaker amp and Yggdrasil DAC).
They don't sound like regular Audeze cans, so not really, no.
Do you have any thoughts on a Woo Audio WA7 3rd gen driving LCD-5s?
Thanks for this, Currawong.
My pleasure!
Thank you for the great review. I have been on the fence about getting the Susvara, How is the Susvara with rock and metal type musis? I know that they're great for classical and jazz which I love but I also listen to rock and metal and wonder how the Susvara is with that? If it's not could you recommend a headphone that's close to the Susvara that would handle these genres somewhat equally? I would be using an AmpsandSound tube amp and using the TT2 as my DAC. Thank you again!
I too am about to go in the market for a headphone for those genres, Lemme know your findings
Please & Thank You.
Which one would you recommend for male vocals like dean Martin or Marvin gaye? I love thick vocals and musical midrange
Can I ask anyone's opinion on using Luxman p750u to drive Susvara?
Very nice review as usual Currawong, are you going to make a review to the Chord TT2?
Yes. I know what I'm going to say (this video helped with that). I just have to shoot it, as well as all the other overdue videos.
@@Currawong your channel is very cool. Congrats!. I'll be looking forward for that review. very curious about how the TT2+ Mscaler compare to the Dave alone.
I like your accent. ;-) And your reviews. One comment on a somewhat controversial topic, though: I tend to be skeptical regarding the statements about the importance of cables in this context. As long as the resistance, inductance, and capacitance of the cable under consideration are sufficiently low, everything should be fine. Example: I recently measured the stock cable of my Hifiman Arya, and its resistance turned out to be 0.4-0.5 Ω throughout the audible range. It thus increases the Arya's frequency-independent input impedance of about 35 Ω by only a negligible amount. Upgrading to a more expensive cable with 0.2 Ω would not result in a discernible difference for the listener. So unless the stock cable sucks completely, there may be better ways to invest one's money IMHO. :-)
Most of the time I've found it makes a difference is indeed when the stock cable isn't so great. That being said, there seems to indeed be a complex science behind how audio signals are altered by cable designs. If there weren't, I wouldn't have had multiple, independent people tell me how a change in guage, geometry, braiding or materials had affected something. I'd happily prefer not to have to care about them too.
@@Currawong Yes, the resistance of a cable is proportional to (L/A) where L is the cable length and A its the cable cross-section. To keep the resistance small, a cable should be short and thick, relatively speaking. Materials also matter to some degree: the specific resistivity of silver / aluminium is 5% smaller / 58% larger than that of copper. The goal should be to keep the cable's resistance very small compared to the headphone's impedance. This is usually the case. - Cables with a large capacitance may induce crosstalk. Good cables don't do that, though. - In any case, there appears to be no reason to get 'esoteric' about cables. As long as the technical specifications are good (enough), everything should be fine. The rest is looks and feel... :-)
Would the ifi pro iDSD be enough for the LCD 5? I remember you said you liked the Susvara with that unit but it wasn’t as powerful to drive it.
Should be. It drove the Susvaras basically well from memory.
Currawong, you nailed the difference in the Susvara when being driven by an adequate amp, and an amp with plenty of effortless power driving them. I use a Pass Labs XA30.8 and I could not love the sound more.
That is quite the amp.
If i were to use sub-optimum setup i.e. amp like violectric v281/gsx mini/phonitor xe, will LCD-5 be better than Susvara?
I used the LCD-5 from the GS-X Mini for most of my review of it.
I hesitate between the SR1a, Susvara, SR-X9000 and Shangri-La Jr as my potential "endgame" HP. Do you think the Shangri-La Jr might be a good contender? (resolution, soundstage and natural timbre are my main criteria and of course, I will have to hear them before buying, not just hearing the sound demos available on the internet...) :)
Great Review. Please review T+ A Solitaire P. I heard them with my Hugo 2 and they are mind blowing. Would love you to review it. Thanks
hear.audio/faq
I agree with you. Tried them recently, and was also quite impressed. I should note, however, that after a while, I realized that it's a good idea to boost the 2-4 kHz region by a few dB to get optimal results for music that has a lot going on in that frequency range (like much guitar-based rock). Generally makes the midrange more natural in many situations. With this small change, I find them to be among the world's best headphones. Natural, beautiful soundstage, high resolution, articulate bass, smooth treble, wonderful coherence and musicality... :-)
Tuning seem better on Susvara. Only thing you may need to do is fill the 1.5k Hifiman scoop if you are up for it.
Can you drive these headphones with the Apollo Twin X? I’m trying to experience the Apple Lossless Audio with high end headphones and trying to figure it all out.
According to the manual, the HP output has: "Maximum Output Power (into 300 ohm load) 96 mW RMS". It doesn't specify the power output into lower impedance headphones. I wouldn't be confident of it being able to drive them well at all. You'd need a separate headphone amplifier for them.
thanks for the subtitle
No problem. If UA-cam offers it now, I'll try and fix them up for each video.
Question, I have RME adi2 dave FS I also have Sony mdr-z1r along with Arya’s. If I switched to the Chord Hugo TT2 might there be a huge difference upgrade. Or not enough to make it worth it.
Auto correct put dave in there
It depends on what you're chasing. That Sony is a bit more laid back so a more detail oriented dac like the chord series would probably be a good choice. Go have a listen somewhere if you can. All good dealers allow demo.
I just purchased the Cayin ha6a tube amp. My first foray into tube sound. Have you an opinion on this amp?
No. It would sound different but not better.
All about synergy! Thanks for the vid
Will you review the STAX sr-x9000?
I hope so. I haven't asked yet. I'm too far behind!
@@Currawong totally understand!
How would you compare bass slam between these two and an Utopia?
Utopia better slam than both of these, utopia more artificial sounding.
LCD 4 has best slam.
High End headphones sound more boring and less engaging while being technically more capable.
How about susvara vs lcd5 on the luxman p750 or mass Kobo 394 mkii?
hear.audio/faq
@@Currawong Sorry to ask again, I didn't find anything on FAQ other than "go to do your own research" feeling. Since you've done a review on p750 3 weeks ago, will you now give some comments on using p750 to drive Susvara? Thanks.
Odd question but can anybody tell the chair he is using?
Herman Miller Aeron.
I'm wondering how they compare to the Arya. I'm looking for your Arya review but I can't find it. Maybe you haven't done one.
The latest Aryas arrived a few days ago, so that will come at some point.
@@Currawong pls do a comparison of the Arya stealth vs the v2 🙏🏼
Awesome comparison of the Susvara with the LCD5! But who am I kidding, I'll never buy that level of headphones lol
@@Currawong thanks.
@Albert Guevara Can't do that as I don't have them here.
@@albertguev if you want an Arya vs Arya comparison here's a short segment.
ua-cam.com/video/e7WHdlisS04/v-deo.html
Hi - I’m your experience, would a Master 19 drive Susvaras?
It'll drive them. Not as well as their higher-end models (or speaker amps) might though.
@@Currawong thanks, do you have a pair in your collection? If so, could you please share your chain?
I hope you get to review the Meze Elite~
I just shot the review of it and am editing it. The DCA Stealth and Sennheiser HD820 arrived as well.
@@Currawong great!
So after spending $5k on headphones and a similar amount ( or more) on the rest of the chain …you’re still going to deal with imperfections in the recordings….such is this hobby.
Have you tried DACs that are more expensive than DAVE?
Not yet. That may come though.
If you have a susvara... don't get an LCD-5. Get a 4, bring some soul or color into your music. Get a ZMF in rare wood.
Don't get two summit fi technical ice queens for different types of reference. That's over 5k for messing around with high end cabling (snake oil) to attempt to tease out psychosomatic EQ in the least important part of the chain.
agree.... they're too similar to compliment each other
I have susvaras and i dont think they are icy at all, i think they actually lean pretty warm/neutral. Bass slaps if you add a bass shelf with EQ.
Please tell us about the genre and playlist details earlier, had to wait 60 percent into the video to realize u listen to Jazz which effects my perspective and interest… - thank you :))
It’s not only the amplifier that plays a massive role with the SUS, just you wait until you get to throw the SUS on something like a holoaudio Spring or May, I just finished shoot in the spring 3KTE review and most of the testing was done with the SUS, there is an organic nature to DAC that FPGA and delta sigma just can’t touch
I hope you get an opportunity to throw one of those DAC on there, it’s sublime the SUS will reveal whatever system you throw it on and that slight V shape kind of disappears
Lol I have the Spring 2 KTE. I'm curious to buy a Toping d90 and Yggdrasi A2 Unison USB and A/B them for a couple of weeks to see if Dacs make ANY difference.
@@Nutritional-Yeast by all means go ahead. I personally bought, didn't use, then traded in the questyle cma400i for a ifi neo idsd. This was all in the dac.
Do you say lcd-x and lcd-5 are not far away from each other except the price tag?
Nope.
@@Currawong Are you able to quantify the differences in key aspects such as soundstage, detail retrieval, bass slam, etc? For example, if LCD-X is the reference point of 1 for each element, how would you index LCD-5 in your own experience? Thanks.
Audeze nuts
Thanks for an interesting review, however, I don't think it's very helpful to compare these headphones, each with different amps etc. to optimize each one. Most viewers can't do this. It's kind of like using EQ on each headphone. Yes, that may help, but we want to know how the headphone sounds on its own. However, you did help me decide not to buy an LDC-5. I don't want to have to take steps to deal with its frequency response, and I don't think it would be comfortable due to the clamping force.
My LCd-5 sounds absolutely TERRIBLE compared to my 64 Audio U12t!
You cannot frequently switch two around, you won't tell any difference. You got to keep listening to one for a month, then switch for another, the contrast comes really obvious after that.
Or, you listen to a wide variety of music with headphones for a decade or more on dozens of different amplifiers and the differences are pretty obvious to discern in a few minutes.
How about you start making videos before telling someone else how to do their job?
Suuu swur uh i.e. sundara swer i.e. beautiful/melodious words/vocals/wordings
I don't know why a Chinese man living in usa uses Sanskrit/Indian/Buddhist names for his products
Mr. World-wide i guess ;)
Yeah, the LCD-5 have really unbalanced midrange that noticably alters the mix of most music. Like to hear more drums? Well here is more guitars, vocals and handclaps. Want more sub bass? Well here is more high hat. Otherwise great HP, but the existence of digital EQ (which not everyone uses) seems to have made Audeze a bit lazy in their tuning. Having a good OTB tuning is worth more than speed and resolution.
I don't think any laziness was involved whatsoever. They had very specific goals in mind, centred around studio use. But, you're not wrong that the Reveal plug-in is an important thing for them too.
@@Currawong I used to mix on the LCD-XCs with spotty results and I do think that the LCD-5 would be better for that. But part is that it seems to also go beyond neutral with the midrange boost, so to compensate you end up creating recordings/mixes that are quite safe/tamed in that frequency band. You know that an end listener is definitely not going to get too much upper midrange.
For me as a listener, I'd prefer an LCD-X like turning. I was pretty stunned that my XC and Empyrean sounded more similar to each other than the LCD-5.
@@Currawong Are you sure? without the reveal plugin they dont sound very good and really has unbalanced midrange/ treble?
@@saarxee19 You just listen to poor recordings.
Was listening to the nuances until the topic of “brighter cable” came up. Sigh
Where on the doll did the cable touch you? ;)