The Darksaber Rules Make No Sense in Star Wars: The Mandalorian
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- Опубліковано 10 бер 2023
- The Mandalorian's darksaber is cool, but the rules make no sense. From Darth Maul to Sabine Wren, we explain how Din Djarin's sword is in the wrong hands.
- Фільми й анімація
if you beat the holder of the dark saber you have the right to claim it. none of the people who beat maul cared about it
Then Din shouldn't get it either. They acted like he had to take it.
@@joshuaworkman1 true, i guess moff gideon just tricked him into it
@@romanphilson9275 Also, how did Gideon get it from Bo? Was she trapped and disarmed like Din was with that creature? Bo seems like a better warrior overall, yet she loses to Gideon, but Din beats him? I really hope they explain the situation more this season.
@@joshuaworkman1 he took it from Gideon to give to Bo not knowing that she wouldn’t take it. But even if he had known the rules he was still the one who defeated Gideon so the only other option would’ve been to let him keep it. I swear y’all watch the shit but don’t pay attention at all
@@joshuaworkman1Din claimed the Darksaber when he defeated Gideon. Wether he actually wanted it or not is irrelevant. He defeated Gideon and claimed the saber. It is now his by right, as he has the right to rule Mandalore. Wether he wants it or not, it’s not something he can just give away. He must be defeated in combat and his opponent has to claim the saber. Mandalorian culture is a warrior culture and everything for them (those who practice the “old ways” as opposed to the pacifist society that Mandalore has become) is predicated on that warrior culture and mentality.
To win the darksaber in combat, you have to challenge the person using it and once you win, you need to claim it. So really, the last true ruler of Mandalore was indeed Maul.
I mean Din won it in combat and then defended his right to hold it in combat so I’d say he has a pretty good claim too
That would be true, if not for the Mandalorian Duel in "Book of Boba Fett."
Din defended his claim over the Saber agains Paz Viszla, which solidified him as its owner.
@@pocketmarcy6990 Yeah true true. But before him, I'd say it's either Maul or Moff Gideon, but we don't know yet how Gideon got it, so I'll stick with Maul
@@Xashe_ we know that he took it from Bo-Katan Kryze, who was handed it by sabine wren as a gift that Bo-Katan "can" rule but that broke the code of the blade so thats why the night of thousand tears happend or atleast the mansalorians blame it to that. So if we want to really say who got a claim it is Din and if his claim is not accepted because of the code, the last rightful leader is Tar Vizsla because nobody has beaten him in combat and took the claim.
Thank you for reading 😊
This guy makes no sense of course they don’t get the darksaber just because they beat someone who once held it. I don’t even think that the custom is well known outside of the creed
It's a symbolic tradition. Before the darksaber, Mandalore would be chosen through single combat and claiming the Mandalore's mask. The last one to lay claim to the mask (To my knowledge) was Mandalore the Preserver, Canderous Ordo. He forged the mask into his helmet. After him, there were several others after him that earned the title of Mandalore, but none of them had any set item that defined their role until the darksaber was recovered from the Jedi temple.
Personally I would say it was less “recovered” and more “stolen” from the Jedi Temple. We don’t really know a lot about the Mandalorian Jedi’s rule over Mandalore. All we know is that a Jedi that was also a Mandalorian United all of Mandalore, ruled it for a time, died, had his lightsaber, the Darksaber, taken back to the Jedi temple to be laid to rest with the rest of the lightsabers of the fallen Jedi before it was stolen by the Vizla clan. For all we know, it was the Mandalorians after the Mandalorian Jedi’s passing that came up with the idea that the darksaber is the new defining characteristic of the Mandalore and stole the darksaber from the Jedi to have it be that trinket they would believe in with clan Vizla obviously supporting it. But again, that’s speculation. We don’t even know what kind of person the Mandalorian Jedi truly was or how he ruled Mandalore
Exactly it’s not supposed to make sense. It’s more of a superstition among the Mandalorians, which Moff Gideon exploits at various points to manipulate them.
I think the difference is that you have to challenge somebody specifically for the saber. Maul challenged Vizsla for it others didn't.
It wasn’t “passed down” to Visla’s descendants, it was placed in a Jedi temple and Visla’s descendants stole it from that temple many years later.
No after the death of Tar Viszla his people stole it from the temple. Their descendants passed down the saber to Pre Viszla
@@alpborakirte801 What is the passing of the weapon when the owner dies with no defeat? Does it become free real estate until the next owner or finder boots up the tradition again?
@@valthenvega2434 I mean, I’m pretty sure thats how it works. It makes sense to me.
@Valthen Vega I mean yea they have a warrior culture it makes sense that if someone dies wo being defeated it would just go to the descendants.
Yoink
It's symbolic, and that's where its power and influence come from. It should be a symbol to unite Mandalore, but when it is improperly won it becomes a cursed symbol that divides the clans.
The symbol to unite the Mandalorian clans is the mask of mandalore.
@Matthew Christian
The Mandalorians are a factional society splintered and squabbling.
They have need of any damn symbol of unity they can get their hands on.
And unless anyone can produce that mask, the saber will have to do.
Or riding a Mythosaur.
Or something.
Yeah, there are no hard rules. Because rulership is sort of chaotic and self-justify
@@matthewchristian9591 that's old Mandalore
It's Bad Disney Fan Fiction McMuffin
@@notmephisto1375 Nah that is the only Mandalore. Though I doubt we would get to see the mask since making that Canon would mean making parts of the old Republic including Revan Canon as well since he is the one who took and hid it, and I doubt they would make that stuff Canon. However I do feel with the Mythosaur brought into play that may be an alternative to the throne that would overrule the saber. Taming one was last done by a Mand'alor long before the creation of the darksaber and if someone were to tame one now that may give them more right since that beast is probably the only thing held in higher regard than the saber.
Ray being the rightful ruler of anything has me dead 😭
Ruler of Mary Sues
Ruler of sarlack should be her claim
Don’t worry she wasn’t alive at this point,
@@redwiltshire1816lol
I think a key feature is dueling with the intent to gain control of the Darksaber and rule Mandalore. Bo Kataan tried to use it as proof of her worthiness to rule when she was given it and didn't calim it through combat.
I mean it's not the Elder Wand, it doesn't actually matter who beat who, it's all symbolism. I actually think that's a fun thing they are doing this season with Bo and Din on Mandalorian Culture. You have Bo who wants to use the symbols like magic even though she's a cynical non-believer and then you got Din who doesn't care if its magic and does things because they are symbolic.
I literally came here to say this
I thought she didn't accept it from Din and believes in this specific thing was because a bunch of bad shit happened after she was given the saber and thought her not winning it was the reason why
When Maul won it from Pre Vizla, it was a duel specifically for power and the rule over mandalore, so maybe that could be it? Looking at Mandalorian traditions you see people directly challenge each other, Tar Vizla challenging Din in BoBF and Sabine challenging the leader of the Protectors in Rebels come to mind. Fairly certain Sabine challenges Gar Saxon in Rebels too. Looking at examples like this I feel like the stakes for rightful possession would be lain out before the duel
You mean Paz Vizla not Tar Vizla
Yes this is the way. We can’t select random duels. That’s not elder wand.
So how did Din get it from Gideon with that logic?
You mean paz?
@@Justrelaxx101 Gideon did point out that Din couldn’t just give the Darksaber to Bo Katan because she didn’t win it in a trial by combat, which could mean that he now sees Din as the rightful owner if the Darksaber because he no longer claims it, idk
I always thought the rule was just that ownership of the Dark Saber makes you rightful ruler, but then a superstition developed later that if you get it outside of combat then your reign is cursed.
Imagine Obi-wan ruling Mandalore with Satine......
It’s only important to the Mandos. You have to win a battle against it, and also claim it after.
Mando didn't claim it
@@legodeathstarproductions5513 He does claim it as his property at the moment.
@@Voix1000x He claimed the sword but not the throne
He doesn't claim anything. All he cares about is protecting Grogu, and fulfilling his mission. The reason he keeps the blade is because Bo refused to accept it.
And if you
Have to claim it why does Sabine pass it down to Bo? That’s exactly what Djin was trying to do but Bo wouldn’t take it…?
Guess she could build a jedi school there
Someone pointed this out recently, (I don't remember where) that the reason Maul was allowed to claim the dark saber is because he didn't rely on the force (ie. Push or choke) to win it in the pre-established dual. Instead he only used his combat skills. Obi-Wan and sidious did.
I swear if I see Ray even have a edited dark saber...
You right, except he definitely used the darksaber against Sidious. Sabine could’ve been the rightful owner winning it against Gar Saxon, but it was actually her mother Ursa Wren who killed him… so maybe it belongs to Ursa?
I mean just because you kill the user doesn’t mean you gain right to the saber. I mean if you smothered the current wielded in their sleep with a pillow would that really count as you beating them?
@dustyfedora4916 probably. That just shows how stupid and underdeveloped this rule is. It's just plain bad writing and they never intended this to be a rule until the mandalorian
@@dustyfedora
*Looks back at Legends*
Yeah, that would actually work.
The Mandalorians are meant to be prepared at all times and shouldn't be surprised in any way.
So if you killed them in their sleep and explained it to the rest, they would see it as a sign of weakness of that person.
That is stupid.
But that's the Mandalorian Creed for you.
It's not about who kills their opponent it's defeating them in combat
@@Stigma-ba115 That, or rather than lazy writing its a reflection of real life, where the sorts of traditions applied to symbols and the whole "You kill it you bought it" idea don't necessarily make sense either. As far as we know, at least, the Force (or any other mystical force for that matter) doesn't actually divine who's the rightful owner or not.
Shouldn’t Bo be the owner now? Din lost it in combat to the bug-cyborg, then she came around and used it to defeat the bug-cyborg. It’s her Darksaber now.
I guess the rule is you have to defeat whoever is using the darksaber.
@@samuelstephen8147 I think that's the problem. The rules aren't completely stated, so people are going to say ownership is transferred when disarmed, when the person is pursuing mando leadership, an actual fight, etc. And it's all bullshit until Dave/George finally confirms it for us.
Thats what i thought
I’m pretty sure it’s a one on one combat with the person who has it rightfully and they make it clear that I want the dark saber all the other ones were just duels for life and death but to be the leader of the Mandalorians you have to win it in combat can’t take it or find it
Didn't she use it and just let Mando keep it? Like that proves that the rules aren't actually rules
its exactly like finding out whos the rightful head of a royal house through family trees
I can see disney just adding that into her feats just to label hiw different, powerful and awesome they make their new characters
I think it doesn’t work like Harry potters elder wand… it’s more of a symbolic fight, so the stakes of the duel whether stated or implied is for the dark saber/the rule of mandalore… if it worked like the elder wand than Sabine would never have been the leader
@screencrush the rule of the dark saber is that you have to be challenged for the weapon not just beat them
that just isnt true
@@Dest66 Maul says it in clone wars season 5
@@wjrbrent1601 no you can still beat them without challenging them and still get the darksaber if you claim it... you dont need to challenge them for it... the only reason no one had ownership of the darksaber after beating maul is because they didnt claim it they didnt want to so its ownership stayed with maul. then maul left it for years in a cave not being used made it so he gave up ownership of the darksaber and thats when sabine came along and took it and then claimed ownership after beating i cant remember the mandalorians name in combat, and in turn gave the darksaber to bo katan who the clans all sworn loyalty to recognising her as the new owner of the dark saber in which she then lost it during the mandalorian wars to moff gideon who then lost it in a battle (not a challenge) to mando, the reason bo katan then couldnt take it back is because she lost the right to it when she lost it to moff gideon and let the empire bomb mandalore making the mandalorians now be scattered through the galaxy.
so in short you dont have to challenge them to win the darksaber nor is it you have to beat them in battle this isnt the elder wand.
Thank you so much guys, you really made my week better. This is my most viewed short. 🙏
i think i remember something about having to win the saber, not just the duel. like they have to win the fight, then also actually physically take the saber
The Darksaber is an ornament, either for someone who can unite the Clans of House Vizsla, or someone who can unite Mandalore. Note, I said *ornament.*
The Mask of the Manda'lor is the real symbol of the ruler of Mandalore.
That depends.
The Mask was the Symbol in the Legends.
The Darksaber was stated multiple times to be that Symbol in the Canon.
The Mask doesn't exist in the Canon, so it can't be the Symbol of Rule.
My head cannon is Satine wasn't always a pacifist. She won the darksaber in combat againist her sister Bo-Katan by stunning her and spared her life.Satine later placed the Darksaber in a vault in her museum of mythos on Kalevala.Pre Vizla then stole the Darksaber after bombing the Museum vault/government building(whiched killed Deputy Minister Jerec)..
That is interesting but almost definitely impossible. Bo would have mentioned that I think.
@@spencersholdenidk man, if I dove into a pool to save my drowning friend and saw a living T-Rex just vibing down there, I would NOT shut up about it
The “rightful ruler of mandalore” is just a spoken thing they don’t follow it. Also the dark saver appears heavy at first, but once you connect with the saber emotionally and stuff then it feels lighter and easier to use. 👍
"What is your name?"
"Rey... Rey Mandalore..."
Love that Obi wan is the rightful ruler of mandalore
He's not
Vader beat him
Then Luke beat Vader
So technically Luke owns it
But since it could also be Palpatine who owns the dark saber then it's Luke again
Anakin killed Palpatine
But Anakin died so Luke still owns it since he's his son
@@KupiecKorzenny_EmhyrVarEmreis fair enough 😂
I need an edit of this exact clip but near the end Mr. Plinkett starts yelling “SHUT UUUUUUUUUUUUPPPPPPP”
"I feel like it's more of a challenge me to win the honor" thing, and not a "bing bong fuck ya life im King" thing
Rey walking around on Tatooine, someone comes up: hey Rey by the way, you are the reitfull owner of Mandalor. Rey: um, ok.
If palps is the rightful owner of the dark saber it would be Vader that has the right to own it
@Penguin but kylo didn't kill him
Rey being the ruler of Mandalore would put it in worse condition than when the empire turned it into an emerald wasteland.
Yeah because she's a girl and NoGurlzAloud in our club!
@@gamecokben nah Ahsoka or bo katan could rule
I’m with you with Luke being the rightful ruler of Mandalore but not Rey Nobody 😂😂😂🤣
“BuT iT’s NoT LiKe tHE eLdER wAnD!”
He's truly mastered the ability to talk without saying a damn thing.
I think wee can all agree that Star Wars fandom would universally love if Rey wielded the Dark Saber and ruled Mandalore.
She’s a Palpatine, let her rule the whole galaxy 🤣
Does She had fans?
The Darksaber is one of those wonderful plot devices that the rules of its use can magically metamorphose into whatever the story needs them to be. There is an term for such wonderful and mystical powers called “lazy writing”.
No, Obi Wan didn’t challenge Viszla for the dark saber, neither did Sidious nor Ahsoka, meaning they have no right to lead mandalore, that is why they have the right to decline leading mandalore
Tell me you dont know mandalorian lore without telling me you dont know mandalorian lore:
I'm telling you that lights ever has no loyalties it's been in everyone's hand.
My head canon is that it requires a formal challenge for the dark saber specifically to be passed down through combat
Before Mando I thought it was only if they specifically challenged for it … however it is like Pre Vizla and Maul to not give up the saber if someone didn’t know the rules
I love how Disney made the easiest Right to Rule system the most complicated and god awful system in history.
For context, Pre-Disney Mandalorian Right to Rule was centered around the Helmet (or mask) of Mand’alor (didn’t need to be a specific one, just one that was worn by a previous Manda’lor) and by having that Helmet YOU became Mand’alor with all the rights and powers that came with it.
Bro are we not gonna talk about how that one cyborg on Mandalor who defeated Mando then Bo-katan defeated the Cyborg so Bo-Katan is actually the rightful ruler. NOW she is she wasn't before she won it in battle.
We often forget that the dark saber is not the elder wand.
There are 2 ways I think we could look at this:
1) It's not so much the immutable will of the Force as it is the interpretation by Mandalorians that the Darksaber is won in combat. Like Jedi and swearing off attachments; or...
2) The only fights that count are challenges for the throne, where there is an understanding that the contest is for the right to rule Mandalore. So any random fight like sparring or fighting for survival (but not necessarily for the throne) wouldn't count.
Holy crap, didn’t think Star War’s lore would get mor complicated.
I think writers later on made it far more significant that it was as a symbol of leadership, there was nothing that really indicated that the dark saber wielder should be the ruler of Mandalore in the clone wars series in which it was introduced
That’s the issue with items with Elder Wand rules, there’s always gonna be things that break the rules since the definition of “being defeated in battle” could be misleading, and everytime it’s used in fiction, the creators always have to insert some weird loophole to make one character the owner but ignores previous examples of possible owners
Thats why we ended up in this situation. The saber if to be held by someone outside of the family of the Mandalorian Jedi needs to be dueled either for rulership or for the saber itself, and thus, rightful rulership. Because Bo did not win it the first time, her rulership failed, along with the fact that Moff Gideon claimed it. Then came Din, and after his loss to sewer grevious, we hit a strange impass. The saber was not dueled for, but the person who defeated the sewer grevious, Bo, was then given the darksaber with the claim that she bested that witch bested Din, thus leading to a strange situation of weather it is allowed or not allowed.
Just give it to her and call it a day. And after that make her the democratic elected empress of the universe. Give her eternal Life and Disney has made their Mary Sue perfect. Just do it already so we can bury it already, I give up.
Rey should just be ruled out of this equation. You know what, just rule her out of everything
I know its not the point of the video but I get so mad when people say ahsoka beat maul. Maul wasn't even trying, he wanted ahsoka to join him or at the least escape. Meanwhile Ahsokas number one priority was defeating maul if maul tried he would have beat her.
Problem being that the times where the saber is transferred is when there is a direct challenge.
How I always fix that idea is by not thinking of it as the elder wand. Instead of it being a magical item, it could just be superstition that surrounds its myths. Or maybe the force dictates who shall own the saber but if the victor doesn’t choose to take the saber then it doesn’t become inherited. Even still there obviously isn’t a clear inheritance line as owners of the saber have taken it rightfully from people who didn’t own it rightfully. So I suppose it doesn’t matter who you’re taking it from, just as long as you take it from someone rightfully.
It’s less of a rule of law and more so a tradition backed by superstition. We learn in Book of Boba Fett that while Bo Katan had the saber, the Children of the Watch believed that because she didn’t win it in battle, her rule was destined to fail, which it does. Circumstances make the Mandalorians including Bo Katan believe that about the darksaber, much like how we have the notion of Groundhog Day where the groundhog seeing it’s shadow will determine how long winter will be.
Neither obi-wan or palpatine wouldn’t be the rightful ruler because you also have to claim the darksaber and neither are of them did
It belongs to Lando. Obi Wan killed Maul. Vader killed Obi Wan. Palpatine killed Vader. The Death Star killed Palpatine. Lando blew up the Death Star. Lando rules Mandalore
That darksaber belongs to darth maul.
@@nilesclifford9704 proof
Give Din Grogu the Dark Saber and his Robot Body back then he can run Around Swinging it around hitting his YES & NO Button
I think there’s a “Jedi don’t count” rule with it, or something lol
I always thought that was more of a tradition than a rule
See...that last one...that one rubbed me the wrong way🤨
Just here to high five Doug!
🤘🧙♂️🤘
My head canon is the victor has to envok the rule in order to claim it and in order to claim it they have to take it after combat
The Elder Wand has entered the chat.
Rey is officially non cannon. The entire sequel trilogy is considered non cannon
Coming from the guy who can’t spell canon
@@zacharybarnett8866 blame autocorrect. It's the ducking worst. DUCK!
I think you have to formally challenge the current owner for it to change hands
If only Pre Vizsla could have passed on the dark saber to his descendant, Post Vizsla.
I think it means you need to directly challenge someone who has the dark saber to actually claim it
The idea behind the saber is that it is won in some form of combat, not after beating the previous owner.
I thought it only counts if there is a formal challenge
The battle has to be explicitly for the Darksaber, and over the course of the battle the Darksaber has to be taken from the the wielder. Moff Gidien fucked with the rules knowing Din wasn't aware of them to trick him into claiming it.
Rebels: Here Bo, have this dark saber to rule over your people "cool thanks"
Mandolorian: Here Bo, have this dark saber to rule over your people "NO THATS NOT HOW THAT WORKS!!!!"
I always saw it as, it needed to be an actual duel where it was used but even then it doesn’t work, so I guess just whenever the majority of the mandalorians decide it’s yours
An idea for Star Wars what if series: Obi Wan leaves Jedi order to become new ruler of Mandalore alongside Satin
The dark Saber is a trial by combat Saber only held at pinnacle because it's a ornamental Saber that still is functioning but only to true duelist like dooku
There was a reddit post, probably in r/prequelmemes, that said why the Dark Saber belongs to no one at the moment. Long story short, technically it should belong to Vader after he "killed" Palpatine in the end of Return of the Jedi, but because he died right after but wasn't directly killed by anyone then the Dark Saber is left without a rightful owner.
My man just broke star wars
The mandalorians are no less than sheep when it comes to the dark saber. He who leads the mandalorians with the dark saber is like herding sheep with a staff.
What makes no sense is that sabine could give the darksaber to bo katan easily but when din gets it he's not allowed to yield and give it back.
you could argue Ezra aswell, Maul fled from the nightsisters when they attacked him and Ezra and whilst possessing Sabine, the nightsisters took the weapon and attacked him. Ezra managed to defeat possessed Sabine and then took the saber to destroy the alter, killing all the nightsisters. He then left the weapon which Sabine took dishonorably.
Maybe the challenger has to exclaim their challenge
"rey who? "
You have to be challenged for the Darksaber, otherwise it’s like winning a bet then deciding what the stake is
The rules don't make a whole lot of sense because, as I saw somebody else point out _very_ emphatically on a ScreenRant article, The Darksaber is _not_ the Elder Wand. There's no actual mystical power deciding who's worthy of it or not (as far as we know). Like Gideon says, it's the story that has power. If we want to try and establish a solid rule, I think the rule of "Take it in combat from somebody, regardless of whether they won it in combat or not" applies. But let's be honest, the Mandalorians can chose to interpret the idea however they want, depending on whether or not they like the person currently holding it.
You take that last part back
The person who beats the bearer of the darksaber has to accept the title as the ruler of mandalore, and with that, the darksaber itself.
As someone who understands warrior cultures. You've got this a little sideways. The Darksaber isn't just a weapon. It's sort of like a crown or the title of "king". The Mandolorians are not dynastic. They hand the power to whomever can control the darksaber, or defeat the one who does. Now. Possession of the darksaber, or the crown, or the title of king. Does not immediately demand respect, so people will challenge you for It. Think of how Lions will fight eachother for leadership of a pride. It's a test of strength. Now since the Mandalorians are a warrior culture. They do war. That's kind of their thing. With that comes the expectation of victory and defeat, so id guess ownership of the darksaber comes with its own set of rules such as "X challenger wants ownership of the darksaber as a reward for defeating you in a duel. Do you accept." Now of course there are exceptions to this, such as when Din defeated Gideon. Gideon offered the darksaber afterwards, presumably as a plot to turn his enemies against eachother since he knew that Mandalorians would fight tooth and nail for it, Bo-Katan being a prime example of this considering all she did for ownership of the blade. Obviously this plan failed. But there you go. Now. Conceptually honor bound societies end up being kind of silly, which is kind of why Mandalore fell apart In the first place. But it's hard to say, because I'm not sure that much thought was put into it.
It seems to be more of the victor has to claim the saber “officially”
Don't give Disney any ideas. The last thing we need is another complex backstory about how Sidous needed a second genetic template in order for his clones to not look like snoke and so he used the last of the Jango fett sample to make the clone that will go on to be reys father.
It doesn't count until you claim the saber, it's like winning a free car, it's not yours until you pick it up
The Mandalorians snuck into the Jedi temple and stole the Dark saber, it was not won in battle, the "rule" was made up after that, it's a legend, a story.
Satine ruled Mandalorian for decades without it and exiled Death Watch, who had the Dark saber to Concordia, it didn't help them.
If Bo shows up on the Mythosaur, nobody is going to care about the Dark saber, Din isn't even carrying it anymore.
The weight is because the crystal is apparently picky about who it serves, right now it serves Bo.
I we’ll be honest, your right about how the Star Wars have have change who, what were how the darksaber belongs too someone!!
Rey have the dark Saber. Go wash your mouth with soap sir! 😂
Anybody but Rey. Give it to BB-8, just not Rey
When you think abt it, Luke was the technical owner of the dark saber. Vizla>maul>sidious>vader then luke after vader dies and passes it on. If it follows bloodline, an argument could also be made that the saber would be Ben/Kilo and after that it falls into molten lava before Rey can get her slimy hands on it.
It’s not the elder wand that has to be passed down from battle to battle. It just has to be won in combat from whoever currently has it
So far, I think the biggest issues with the Mandalorian, are Grogu, the Darksaber and the fckin not showing your face rule.