I think that people are like ummm.. really stupid.. but I like umm.. still have faith they are like.. umm.. still like.. cognitive to important issues and also.. you know.. give peace a chance.. ya know?
10 Mins in, you just have to ask a conservative if superman (aka jesus) should have human rights. Superman, is literally an illegal alien, so fucking illegal that he doesn't even have human DNA.
Destiny, a fetus having an undeveloped consciousness means nothing. The fact a fetus is human and alive inherently makes killing it meditated premature killing murder. If I have a asshole friend who kills my pet fish, you'd say he murdered your fish. the fishs lack of consciousness means nothing. He still murdered your fish. A child is a mutually owned property by both parents. Intercourse is defined as business and commerce. sexual Intercourse is therefore sexual business and commerce. The fetus is called the product of conception. Literally the product of 2 business partners sexual business and commerce. Since the fetus is a mutually owned product /property regardless if it has a consciousness when a mother decides to get a willful abortion she automatically is engaging in the wrongful destruction of someones property which by definition is a crime. Just like if your friend murders your fish, if your sexual business partner kills your fetus you can therefore claim she murdered your baby. Its the same thing. A sexual union is the legal consummation of marriage. In marriage union the partners are no longer legally considered independent beings. By law your spouse literally is considered a part of yourself. Thats why married couples cant be compelled to testify against their partner in court, beceause your spouse is literally and legally yourself. The bible says the two married people shall become 1flesh and is why a marriage union is treated as such in our secular court system. After a woman has sex which is technically the finalization of a marriage there no longer exists this idea of 'my body my choice' no beceause you have legally and sexually entered a union. A wife's body no longer is her own but is also her husbands and vise versa the wife literally owns the husbands body too. Thats what a union is, a combining of 2 into 1. The Bible also says it as well, says that the man owns the woman and the woman owns the man. there is no independence nor individuality in a legal union. When a woman aborts a fetus yes she destroys her own body but since her body is owned also by her husband it also means she is wrongfully destroying his property as well, which is a crime.
By arguing a toddlers consciousness is sufficient to call it alive than clearly a fetus kicking in the womb should be sufficient proof to call it conscously alive. Destiny unwittingly was arguing the other guys point. Besides if a single celled organism is fundamentally considered alive, No life anywhere is measured by consciousness. Even if AI becomes coscious and self aware it wont be considered alive. Though id still be wrong to destroy someones robot even though the destruction of it isnt murder , its destruction would still be a willful crime just the same as destroying a fetus except a gestating fetus is objectively alive and so we call its destruction murder
A fetus is not a potential life its actually alive although parasitic in its nature a born child will die if left on its own and so even the born baby is a parasite doesn't justify killing it . PARASITIC life is still alive
I'm interested to hear Destiny's opinion on abortion, as you often hear conversations such as these monopolized by men, it's refreshing to get a woman's perspective.
what i love about this is that destiny isn't here to win, he's here to talk. and the millisecond the talk devolves, he puts the discussion back on track, and when the talk has been talked, he's quick to conclude and thank the participant. there is absolutely zero aggression, and so much courtesy. absolutely wonderful.
@@alrulz6402 The terms Destiny uses to describe himself is "Omniliberal" (a term coined by Destiny to represent his "better" version of neoliberalism) and "a very big social democrat".
@ToonahFish he's talking about the guests. Right wing people in general are infinitely more likely to have discussions like this. Even destiny admits right wing people are "nicer" than left wing. Destiny is also considered an enemy of the left, so he's much more "right wing" optically. Left wing people just show up public debates to hold signs and scream.
@@whatNtarnation90 If you wholeheartedly believe that political stances on complex topics that require extensive debate dictate one's temper and their ability to have a conversation, then maybe consider that the media that you personally consume is literally tailored to what you desire to see.
It's definitely a different approach but don't you think that arguments are meant to be conclusive? Otherwise you'll talking endlessly. Destiny does not have a good point and no one can convince him so it would have been fine to end the conversation quicker
@@monadouroboros because then there's no debate. and a lot of times those "sufficient convincing points" are not points at all. they're just plain dunks or gotchas and there's little to learn from those types of "debates"
@@alexhendrickson5388 you might see it that way, when debating you're presenting relevant information to counter the opponent. You're ideas will be challenged and if you don't have the resources you will feel that way.
Leaving the final word always to the other person is a really great gesture of good faith, possibly it will encourage more people to come and chat in the future
While he is nervous, I think he is still very well-spoken. I understood what he was talking about. When I am nervous, I stutter and stumble, and become wholely incoherent. ಥ‿ಥ
@@iamhereblossom1588 Not giving a value-judgement on his argument. Nor am I saying I didn't understand his argument. I am not sure what you are getting at with this comment.
@@cesper554 he's been kind of duo-ing as a moderator during this little segment of vids from the looks of things. i think it's nice that he's giving a chance to college kids to debate but not making it entirely hostile despite the weight of the subject.
Student 2 Yash, had a way better take and line of reasoning to counter Destiny than 99% of the people Ive heard him debate and discuss. Great conversation.
No he didn't. He kept asserting that the potential for life is attached to the fetus but contradicted that earlier when he attached the potential for life to action, when he claimed that having sex has the potential for life thus a person concedes agency by having sex.
@@Voidapparate I imagine if he had more time he would've gone deeper on the subject, but at the end he mentioned a difference between a positive action of getting an abortion to end the potential vs a negative action of avoiding the fetus developing in the first place
i think ur getting wrong idea. 1st guy said any kind of potential life is important even fetus, but destiny said he define life with consciousness thus fetus arnt really life. so 1st guy said in his view toddler have not fully develope consciousness so does toddler worth less then fully develpoed consciousness is what he wants to say. i think.
@@jameslee-kh5xt That’s the problem though. He doesn’t understand Destiny‘s arguments. He doesn’t seem to understand that just because the toddlers conscious thoughts are not done developing. That doesn’t mean that they are not there. A toddler can laugh. Cry learn a new language faster than most adults. There are so many complex processes going on in a toddlers brain in order to help it grow. The idea that toddlers don’t have a consciousness is just an insane statement to make if you are pro life, or even if you’re pro-choice. It shows that he either doesn’t understand what Destiny is talking about or is just a psycho.
@@jordanwhite8718 no they just don't agree on each others points. they just view what fetus are like every other pro-choice pro-life people. To me Destiny point of view does not make sense because i see life as conception/fertilization. Destiny said fetus is like construction materials in construction site and finished building is human, but for me materials are sperm n egg, n as fertilization happens the building is being built automatically n 9 month it is finished.
@@jameslee-kh5xtbut why conception? if sperm and eggs are left to the process they will eventually fuse together so why not consider basic genetic material? The issue is that in no other cases after birth do you consider this to be the definition of life. A brain dead person can have their life support turned off and it's not considered murder because we don't see a person there anymore. Why are you only considering cell replication life during pregnancy but not considering it life at the other end?
@@jeffparent2159 Ur example of ' Human being in process of dying(Brain dead)' and ' Sperm n Egg creating new life' like they are same thing is not right example to give. One is process of death(brain dead) and other is beginning of life(fertilazation). The reason why " A brain dead person can have their life support turned off and it's not considered murder" is because life support are used to stop natural process of dying. But if person is on life support waiting for essential organ and some one just pull the plug for him to die, it will be murder. If you leave both case to process, fetus will became human being and brain dead person will be corpse.
Damb, mad respect to the second guy, Yash. A bit nervous but still well spoken. No disconnects from reality or hyper emotional arguments. I understand everything he said, I respect his arguments and think they're pretty good for his side, even if I disagree. Mad Props
I mean, its the same argument every pro-lifer gives: fetuses have the potential for life and its this potential that makes it wrong to get an abortion....except then you'd have to concede that sperm and eggs have the potential for life as well which anyone would agree isn't true and therefore demonstrates this argument is garbage lol.
What you are doing is admirable. It shows that college kids do still care about developing their positions. As someone a generation older than you, I see much of my own maturity and development through your journey to understand yourself, the universe, and seek fulfillment through purposeful action. Probably a lame non-meme comment but whatever. Keep it up!
@@KoRNeRd Destiny clearly pointed out the hypocrisy and contradictory nature of his point and he sort of just ignored it. Yash's point is this. . . "abortion shouldn't be allowed if a woman is just being an irresponsible slut." The problem with this position is that you are forced to allow abortion if the woman was raped. . . thus meaning you don't consider the fetus a person deserving rights. Yash's entire "potential" position is totally irrelevant if he agrees that it is acceptable to end that potential when the woman isn't being a slut but not ok to end that potential when she is.
I think Yash sounded like a younger version of destiny. Very fast spoken and concise. And got further down the line than a lot of pro life people make it. Better debates from college students than I would have expected.
I think the only time Yash started running into contradictions was at the end of the conversation where he started getting into the potentiality stuff, where destiny correctly pointed out that he was kind of dancing between the two concepts of referring both to potentiality and to the thing itself.
so much better than crowder: (1) no controlling the mic (so you can cut off your opponent from making complete arguments) (2) no bovine audience to applaud your sarcastic one-liners (so you can further unsettle your inexperienced opponent) (3) no avoidance of pre-event publicizing (so you can avoid experienced debaters)
The thing is you want to try to avoid publicizing it or else all you are gonna get is fans. In the Livestream, destiny had a hard time finding people to argue cause the audience was nothing but fans. The more of a surprise the event is, the more your opposition will come.
@@austinhale5699 good point, i often wonder if crowder only lets his fans know when he does his because he is always surrounded by fans that cheer on all his gotchas
@@kevinmcdonald6560 not as much as you think. I used watch crowders change my mind videos all the time (though stopped watching him after seeing his live streams are nothing but screw you jokes to the left and his content at one point for 2 months was about how the election was stolen) the video don't usually contain that many cheers or jeers from the crowd. Hell he had people cheer for him and he has had people boo him
@@austinhale5699 yeah i used to watch him too, i do recall some guy called yusef(?) who got the crowd to cheer him on against crowder, was interesting, i recall nick fuentes interviewing him afterwards
I wouldn’t want to discount the good discussions Crowder has had - he’s been at this for a while now and of course theres been some bad ones, like with that socialism debate for example where Crowder was getting mad.
What I like about Destiny is that He seems to be debating in good faith. I am a Christian and a pro lifer and I have not seen much of Him but I really liked the first debate. Not dumbing down and trying to help and debate in good faith. God bless!
if you’re interested in an apposing position check out abolitionists rising on youtube, great channel that gives some interesting arguments against abortion and from a christian perspective 🤝
The worst part about the abortion conversation is that we have only 2 sides, pro-life and pro-choice, but it is such a nuanced conversation that I feel like two people could have the exact same beliefs but identify differently as pro-life/pro-choice. At the end of the day no one wants abortions to happen and I think this common ground is often ignored when debating this topic.
"No one wants abortions to happen" Then, ban it. The fact is; people want the choice to abort and not carry a child to term. Otherwise, they would carry the child to term and give the child up for adoption or keep the child. Abortion is an unnecessary and evil choice.
@@awilson8521 Fair enough, and how do you feel about exceptions for rape or instances where if the pregnancy is carried to term the life of the mother is greatly endangered?
Even thou I dont agree with Yash's perspective I can't deny that it is such a great way of seeing things. He was so nervous talking about this whole thing. Thumbs up for Yash!
Reverse-empathy is real.. so many people’s faux-empathy (like: i’d keep all braindead individuals sustained by machinery, no matter the cost/resource required, on the basis that they COULD possibly wake up) is actually just the fear of a world in which THEY themselves could be wronged/neglected/eradicated. The whole mentality is not ‘killing a being that has potential is wrong’, it is ‘killing me if i have potential’ or ‘removing my chance of achievement’ is wrong. The big argument is whether or not a foetus has any sentient feeling. I believe all living creatures have a similar level of life-awareness and personal value for existence. I DO NOT believe that any creature is objectively less valuable than a human. This is where the debate loses me because it is soaked in human self-preservation and essentially, narcissism. Now, if i have a being inside of me, that i did not want, although it was admittedly my fault/mistake, silly constructs and principals of ‘A means B and ‘If C is C then D must mean E’, will not be of more value to me than being free to not accept a life-changing and health/body changing process that involves a being existing inside me that is parasitic by nature. I cut through all the BS, life is not precious, it is abundant and only worth what other beings deem it to be but objectively it is not worth anything in the scheme of things so if i have a choice of limiting my life (by accepting a circumstance that i did not desire) or not, then i would be comfortable in ending a very basic version of ‘a life’ to preserve my life/health/wellbeing/freedoms.
@@phantasticmrphasma9874 So you have characterized the larger pro-life take of not turning life support off for people as narcissism, but don't recognise the irony of then saying you would snip the umbilical cord to prevent something that was the result of your own actions.
@@phantasticmrphasma9874 Technically speaking, sure. Children are parasites. But you auto-lose all credibility when you literally want to say that foetuses are parasites. And no, "parasitic in nature" does not fix anything. I understand what you're trying to say, but you _need_ to use different language to describe it. Talking about kids as parasites is just absurdly cringe.
@@fourtyseven47572 The counter to that was that you value the conscious experience of the friends and family of the person involved, and that you value the conscious experience of people who would feel better with the assurance that they wouldn’t have their corpse defiled once they died.
Yash's arguments were such a pleasent surprise. I was always very mathematical in my approach to moral statements (i.e. invoking rational agency arguments) in order to walk through heated discussions like this, but the last couple of years of internet debate bros made me lost in the spectacle. Major shoutout to Yash for rejuvenating my interest and I sincerely hope Destiny takes some notes from that exchange for future debates.
I'd literally bet money that Yash has an I.T. or STEM major, he seems to have that "engineer mind" where you logically go from one section of the problem to another. "Thinking like a computer" is what it was called by my programming professor, because to be a good programmer you literally have to get into the mindstate of a dumb ass machine [It sounds really stupid but it's a thing trust me, ask programmers or even network security folks like me.] Some people use that way to analyze lots of things in life and while it can be good lots of times, a dash of creativity is always welcome.
He was fine, but his consequential argument can be pushed back on really hard. Destiny chose not to for whatever reason, but saying "agreeing to have sex is agreeing to potentially become pregnant" is not a winning stance. Which seemed to be the crux of his position.
@@deebo429__ Because it's a stupid standard to apply that we don't apply to most actions we take. You stepped outside, you agree to the consequences of second hand smoke, one of which is lung cancer. You got in a car, you agree to the consequences of being T-Boned. You went on a date with a stranger, you agree to the consequences of potentially meeting a predator, one of which is r@pe. etc etc etc. Just because an action has an outcome that is POSSIBLE does not mean engaging in an activity consents to that possible outcome. Especially in the case of sex where often specific measure are taken to avoid the undesired outcome The issue with abortion is that people assign moral weight to both sex and to abortion, so they want to apply special scrutiny. But the logic behind this scrutiny is not at all well founded imo.
I’m finding the first student’s attempt to dismantle what Destiny is saying really interesting. In what universe can the first 2-5 years of a person’s life simultaneously is the most important to their lifelong wellbeing, and overall trajectory for their life, but also be “less important” than the rest of their life’s conscious experience? He didn’t really think this one through too much, and I’m surprised that Destiny didn’t bring up the fact that these formative years stick with you all your life whether you remember them or not.
You didn't get it. He was arguing by contradiction. It is dubious toddlers have the same full consciousness as an adult, but concluding they are worth less is absurd. (BUT: Brave New World/WEF types do see newborns as candidates for abortion, as evidenced by new laws being proposed, but then again they would extend this to all non-elite people--just beasts of burden.)
I’m pro-mind yo business. I’d like to ask these pro-life people.. if your wife or daughter was in a extremely high risk labor and the obgyn doctor came out of the room and said.. you have one choice.. either the child survives or your wife dies. What would be their choice? If they’re pro-life.. how do they let either the mom or child die?
Thats im just gonna tell ya disingenuous. Why tf do you think a pro choice person wouldnt have trouble choosing between there child and their partner. 😂😂😂😂😂😂 why do you think id or anyone would go well if its 50 50 im choosing for the woman here. Because she has zero agency in a 50 50. Now if youre saying its going to kill the mother to have the baby. The question becomes what does she want. Police, doctors, security, jail workers, SOLDIERS choose others lives over their own allot. In terms of i can catch a deadly disease, i could be shot, i could be a pow and tourtured for life. If these people can choose that for people they probably dont even know. Why is it that we shouldnt ask the mother in this situation "do you want to live or die for them to live. Theres going to be a sacrifice made and youre the one that has any understanding of your position in this"
Yash is based, he addressed most of Destiny's probing with a pretty consistent principle. Probably the best pro-life proponent Destiny has debated on the abortion topic.
Most pro-life people would not consider him pro-life since he conceded he would allow abortions for rape victims and minors. By that standard even Destiny is pro-life - he would criminalise abortions >20weeks.
Really enjoyed this... You're not talking down to people or disrespecting their opinion, but simply engaging in an amicable discourse in hopes of reaching a rational point of view
To me it's pretty simple, you can't debate this argument (as a secularist/humanist) using simplistic morality or zoning in on "when something is alive". That can go to ridiculously complicated places, like not jerking off to commit mass genocide of sperms... The simple thing is, value human life. There're two humans here, the mother and the baby. Which one has more value? Well, I'd say most people would subjectively believe the mother does, because she objectively is more useful (can make more babies) and she has a deep, rich life experience, memories, loved ones, maturation, goals etc. The baby, is a clean slate regardless of "if it's alive" or not. Now, the baby is still a life at that point. It's a simple life, much less developed than even a dog at that point, though. However, it has the potential to be fully developed human, the most advanced life form we know of. That makes it more valuable than a dog. It's not only objectively more advanced, it's the parent's child. So, subjectively and objectively the baby has a lot of value. BUT, most would still argue less value than the mother of the child... so.... If the mom is in danger... If the mom is emotionally scarred in the way she got the baby... if the mom has no support to properly raise this baby... the mom gets to decide. A healthy, happy mom in a good relationship will most likely never decide to get an abortion. A mom with lots of support will most likely not decide to get an abortion. But a mom that has been raped, a mom who's life is in danger, a mom who has been thrown away by her partner and family... let's just say you need to save yourself before you can take care of others. In a healthy society, abortions would not happen no matter how many clinics existed. I use the same argument for guns. In a healthy society, school shootings wouldn't happen no matter how many guns get sold. Abortion is NOT the problem. And the argument (at least mine) has nothing to do with when life starts. Life is already there. It's in the dad, the mom, the sperm. Consciousness is a cloud of abstraction. But what's real is the value humans give to different people, at different times.
i consider myself in the center but lean right, absolutely love watching destiny and these change my minds. Destiny is sharp and articulate. I don't always agree with him but its refreshing to hear someone who is as well spoken as him
Well spoken doesnt mean start. The man has 0 knowledge about what he is talking about. He said cancer is normal. And that toddlers have complex understanding. They cant even shit in a toilet. But they recognize they are alive? Lol
@@edwardlynch6550 a complex understanding in the way their able to take in the environment and interact with it and able to learn right and wrong. Also yes cancer is normal, you can get cancer out of nowhere simply because your cells like to “protest” but your government secret police (immune system) stomps them and commit genocide against the “protesters”. I just used geopolitics to describe a immune response lmao.
I consider myself in the center and lean center lol The right and left have become far to extreme for my taste but when it comes to abortion I’m pro life .
To student 1: I would even go as far as saying the experiences a toddler makes are some of the most important ones in a human life. We learn the basic things at that point like balancing and understanding other humans.
Yea honestly the first few years of life are the most formative! Let's say you have a person who was severely abused as a baby. They might not remember that when they are grown, but it would have a significant impact. So many neural pathways are being solidified in those years. Anyhow there is an inherent value in consciousness. If I had the choice to save a newborn baby or 1 thousand embryos in a lab, I am going to save the baby.
Student 1 was trying to say is that your memories define make who you are. If you lost all ur memories u wouldnt be the same person that you once were.
I don’t think you’re right here. If the importance of consciousness is based on how fundamental the cognitive properties being formed are, it would suggest that the foetus’ is greater since the groundwork for what you are referring to is laid at that stage. This would mean the foetus’ consciousness would be superior to everything after it, degrading as age progresses.
It is so refreshing to hear a respectful, mutual conversation about a hot political topic. The conversation flows so much better when both parties are respectful. This is done way better than Crowder! Love the new content!
It's better content because conservatives actually talk about what they believe. The last change my mind video Destiny (a girl's name) did, wasn't exactly bad content; but dude, it's just night and day. The average college progressive/"liberal" is brain rotted. It's clear these students have engaged with their own positions.
but, its not crowders fault directly. people hate him bc he is on the right. if his name was joe blow with no show and a vocal republican, it would be just as nice as this. this is also polite bc destiny is largely seen as ON THE LEFT> there fore he does not cause TDS or auto hate syndrome. if you watch crowders CMM, he is beyond respectful and nice and gives benefit of the doubt to the person who sits down.
@@rttp-righttothepoint6656 Crowder uses tactics to rile the other person up if he can (if you watched his CMM you know this is true), he'll use his binder as a bludgeon in debates against people but never actually reference it and does surprise visits so no one can actually challange him. He has zero intention of changing his mind because his mind is his brand and that's his living. Contrasted, Destiny schedules the event, is way more respectful and I fully expect that the thumbnail for any CMM could say, "This student totally changes my mind on this", in big bold red letters as has been the case before
I watched crowder for years previously because he had the only conversational platform. He would instigate the other party which would obviously make the other person uncomfortable and that is when someone is less likely to say or argue the points they may actually feel. When the conversation flows in a comfortable manner, the other person tends to feel comfortable enough to argue their side properly. That is where Crowder fails. I stopped watching because I was looking for a mutual, respectful conversation. I wanted to hear both sides evenly.
@@connorcampbell5274 oof just say you're hyperpolarized and move on brother, no need to waste your time looking for other seals to clap with you. like xo you really think talking like this, does anything positive for anything other than ostracizing the other side? just got to get that dunk huh? but Republicans for sure are just the intellectual paragon of politics I guess
The second guy had some really great points, but was just hampered by his confidence and ability to articulate those points. I’d like to see what he is like in a few years and has some more life experience under him.
acting as if 90% of people on campus wouldn't be the same if under the same circumstances. And of those people how many would have the courage to use their own reasoning
@@Ludwig1625 not a single thing in their comment implied that others on campus wouldn’t be nervous too. All they said was that they’d like to hear their arguments in a few years. That’s it. Nothing more. Nothing less
@@Ludwig1625the fact that your name is meant to reference Beethoven and you're being smug and trying to either purposefully misinterpret the comment or be dumb is rich
I don't agree with abortion but I don't agree with stupidity either. If a woman or child is raped they should NEVER be sentenced to now expand the bloodline of the rapist
Brother, you are on to something here. Your practicing what everyone preaches. Almost anyone doing what you're doing will take shitty shots at opponents, talk down to them, in general, some of them that are good can make it subtle but it's just not in good faith and I feel like the more these videos you do the more it's going to shine a light on those behaviors you see like people are so used to seeing that they just think that's just the way you need to debate that's the way you have to act I mean people are are that kind of ignorant and I think it's important that officially younger folks have the opportunity to see what it looks like when somebody truly in good faith is there to have a discussion and and well trying to persuade the person treating them with respect I mean it's amazing the way you're treating these kids I mean I flew off the handle watching the video I was so pissed off at a couple of them keep doing what you're doing bro this is this is some powerful s***
My dad was in a coma and we had to pull the plug. They said to him, it felt like he was drowning. Every gasp of breath was painful. He was kept alive by machines but was basically being tortured. We pulled the plug to release him from the pain and suffering we were causing just to keep him alive. The first kid just doesn’t get it.
So you think it's equal to stop a life of a person that's being tortured by being alive and stop a life that is healthy and normally developing and everything is fine, lol
facts. i literally came to comments to see what ppl were saying after that and everyone is quiet. I've never seen destiny lose a debate like that. i was like fuck he got smoked.
@@westerngroovetv I don't think Destiny got smoked. Yosh fared much better than the rest of the students imo, but Destiny kind of caught him at the end when he brought up the different "what if" scenarios. What I believe Yosh did extremely well was stay fairly consistent with his viewpoints, and despite being nervous articulated them very well.
I think Yash did great, but I think near the end, destiny was displaying that his argument was pretty arbitrary - just like destiny's. Why wouldn't the act of condoms or birth control be immoral itself?
Except it's not arbitrary. Using Destiny's own metaphor, having building materials and then destroying them is not the same as destroying a building. But as soon as you begin putting the pieces together (egg + sperm) then the potential of that building comes into play because they are no longer separate parts.
I can’t say I’m a huge fan of destiny but after watching his debates I have so much respect for the manner in which he debates in good faith, and also the fact that he seems to not cherry pick silly college freshmen with little knowledge to make himself look good, I.e. Steven crowder
Why not just say that you don't like Crowder? They're doing the same exact thing here. Also, Crowder holds these in all sorts of locations, not just colleges. The videos are out there, so there's no excuse to not know this unless you just don't care or you're just lazy.
Whatever you believe, I appreciate Destiny and have a new found respect for him. That's coming from a conservative. He is a great example of having a conversation. Doesn't matter if I agree or disagree with him, I just enjoy hearing his views. It's important to share like this.
I disagree. Yash's position made no sense. It was all post hoc justifications for his personal opposition to people avoiding consequences for sexual activity. Pretty obvious that he actually does support abortion, but is personally against people being able to have sex for the purpose of pleasure and not pregnancy.
@@paulmd7747 I'm curious where you got that from. Sounds like you're only assuming. There is no such thing as having sex only for pleasure. There is always a risk for pregnancy, unless the man/woman is sterile or have had their tubes tied or a vasectomy, and whether you ignore that or not does not change the reality that one of the results of sex is conception followed by pregnancy. People that use the sex for pleasure argument are merely dodging their own accountability for the pregnancy.
I appreciated the nervousness. It's very human and he articulated himself so well in spite of it. Destiny comes across arrogant even though I appreciate his intent with these segments.
Actual best Destiny content, love these real world conversations. This is way better than those Crowder vids where he just plays gotcha. These conversations feel way more good faith and real, plus the college kids seem way smarter than Crowder vids (wow when you put in the best and smartest people you talk with rather than the dumbest people you end up with good discourse rather than hammering down talking points, who could have guessed lol). I'm pro choice, but I thought the 2nd guy Destiny talked with made some decent arguments and stood his ground even though he was nervous, although he wasn't able to sway me over to his side.
@@Charge11 Is it? The format is the same but Destiny feels like he is engaging in much better faith. No book of stats to pull gotchas out of and no interrupting of the students. He had more conversations that are in this video and he did them all live so we know all of them, he isn't just selectively choosing the ones that make him look best like Crowder does.
@@sdjslkdjlsskldjslkdjsl8262 I've noticed that, he suddenly gets upset at the use of some words but at the same time he claims to be all about free speech and anyone who gets upset over words is a snowflake
I’m pretty pro life, but I do appreciate the conversation coming from Destiny. It’s rare to have an articulate conversation coming from the left without personal attacks and it’s nice to see. Thank you Destiny for not attacking my beliefs or character for holding an opinion.
bro yash is on top of his shit i thought he was gonna fold multiple times but nope he was able to articulate his position very well and stay morally and logically consistent
I do agree that he stayed morally and logically consistent, but his argument still fell apart upon scrutiny. But he is consistent which I very much appreciate.
saying something is right because it's "natural" or "comes naturally" is a logical fallacy. anytime i hear someone bring up that logically fallacy in arguments about where life begins and abortion debates i wanna so badly explain why it's not a proper explaination or justification for a pro-life or even a pro-choice argument. as always these videos are so interesting and important, thank u
I dont understand, life literally does begin at conception and willfully killing your offspring out of convenience (as in the vast majority of cases) in abortion is objectively wrong. “bu-bu-but the woman cant care for the baby!” As I said, a convenience issue that couldve been solved in the bedroom where the female willfully engaged in an action that not only could, but is literally designed to get her pregnant (and not to mention penetrative sex is not the only way for both individuals to get their orgasms there are safer alternatives or just pull out) and as such when you take that risk and inevitably get pregnant that is on you. And not just you, but the newly formed life that is inside of you which is an entirely separate human lifeform biologically which you *do not* have the right to straight up murder it out of your own personal sense of convenience because it violates your hedonistic and degenerative life style of having trains ran on your holes. Simple as that. Morality is objective, Murder of the innocent is wrong.
@@samuraidog1510 "because it violates your hedonistic and degenerative life style of having trains ran on your hole" Casually generalizing people that get abortions as whores, nice. ""out of your own personal sense of convenience" You're seriously downplaying the potential harm that a potentially single, financially incapable mother could have on a child. Sure, there are people that go above and beyond to support their family in dire situations, but not everyone is equipped that way. Them going through 20+ years of financial and mental hardship is not a correct punishment for getting pregnant even though you used protection and all the necessary precautions to not get pregnant. "entirely separate human lifeform": What makes a clump cells defined as this? Until the last-ish few weeks of pregnancy, there is no conscious experience, there is no active brain, there is no memory, etc. There's not much genetically that defines a clump of human cells as having specific human attributes, therefore there is no intrinsic human value. "life literally does begin at conception" Sure, biological functions like cell replication, the very basic formation of bones and organs, etc., but, as stated in the above point, personhood doesn't. "As I said, a convenience issue that couldve been solved in the bedroom" They can't be solved though, they can be marginally prevented. Condoms and pills only work so well. So you think people should just stop having causal sex because of the risk of getting pregnant? Delusional. But you might say 'Oh, but the fetus still has the POTENTIAL to become a human' Sure, there are lots of things that have the potential to become a lot of valuable things. But why does the prevention of something that has valuable potential designate that thing at that very moment, in this case a clump of human cells or a fetus during the early stages of pregnancy, to have the same value as the thing that it has the potential to be? A 9 year old girl as the potential to be a hot 22 year old that I could have sex with, but that doesn't mean I am allowed to treat her the same way as that potential 22 year old.
the first student is well spoken. at some point he was trying to follow argument to a conclusion that destiny wasn't making i think. he was saying that since destinys claim is that life begins when you develop consciousness, that means a toddler who has a comparatively less developed brain is a lesser life because its not as conscious (?) , which is not what destinys argument concludes to. this was not resolved, destiny instead took the path of arguing that toddlers do have a complex conscious experience which the student fumbled by not conceding that because to my understanding the first couple years of your life are VERY important for shaping who you will become because so many complex things are happening that are fundamental for children. I think the point destiny was trying to make in the first place was a human life begins when a fetus first develops that specific human consciousness and that the level of cognitive ability doesn't matter, as long as it has that uniquely human experience it is a human life
His argument did have a HUGE blunder by relying on the word "natural." That word was doing some heavy lifting for him. Destiny was nice to let him get away with it, but I get it -- it's supposed to be an abortion debate, not a a philosophy one.
The reason the first few years are important is because they unconsciously take everything in. Which was his point. Like destinys example a single cell and light. But if we did use your logic the 9 months is very important in shaping an individual for the whole of life. His point was since consciousness is developing even after birth how do you justify pre birth being the cut off.
thank god someone that actually knows how to debate is doing change my minds now, and actually uploading the clips of the discussions with students that know how to debate
Destiny understands that the kids on these campuses are not debaters or professional stans like a lot of the people he deals with online. These kids might have thought through their positions, but they might not have the vocabulary, public speaking ability or confidence like those who argue for a living. So Destiny being charitable is the best course of action to facilitate a conversation, especially when the people coming into these debates aren't immediately devolving into bad faith or fallacious arguments. Destiny does try to match the energy of his opposite and it's why when he finds someone who argues in good faith, those conversations tend to be some of the most productive; even if they aren't the most "entertaining."
Really well done by the students discussing. Cred for showing up in this public scenario, it's an valuable experience. Good points was brought up! Well done guys!
that was super fun and interesting. I appreciate how civil it was, and obviously some of these students are nervous so kudos to steven for sometimes helping them make their point before giving his rebuttal! I would love move videos like this.
I used to be extremely pro choice, now I'm a little on the fence. I've spoken to a few women who've had abortions and they told me that they feel quite depressed after the procedure, they felt like they lost something important. While I still somewhat agree with pro choice, I think the abortion movement has gone too far, where the first option is abortion and not putting safe sex first. I think abortion should be a last option. Nowadays you have a lot of promiscuous men and women who don't care about safe sex, they're obsessed with sex, they just do it raw and think who cares just get an abortion after.
thats where youre wrong. It is majority of the time everyone's last option. Most people are not promiscuous, the average woman has only had three sex partners
I think it's fine to say you are against abortion but also not make it illegal. I think alcohol consumption is a net negative but it doesn't need to be illegal
A lot of pro choice people like myself agree with you that safe sex is paramount and abortion should be a last resort. It might only appear to be a primary option being pushed....because it's the thing being taken away. And doing so is literally killing vulnerable women.
@Aliya Anwald I thought average was actually 7 I guess it depends on your source. But you're right I think most people are only single digits in people they slept with. I'm married and I've been with 5.
Yo these are so fun, more of this! Props to 2nd guy, he was interesting and well spoken. Not sure I could follow his logic in the end but it was a good conversation.
I never understand why nobody mentions or makes an argument of the fact that fetus can literally not survive without being sustained by the womans body, I'd like to hear that being discussed.
In regards to the coma argument: You most definitely know that the embryo or fetus will develop a conscious experience. Thus I think the coma argument directly counters this conscience POV, if you say that doctors will tell you that it is "worth" keeping a patient alive because they will eventually wake up. You would be in favor of keeping a 2 week old embryo alive accdoring to that logic,as it will most definitely aquire its conscience in a matter of weeks. Also: How do you know the fetus is conscious or not if phenomenon starts between week 24 and 28? I myself am not truly sure about how to conceptualize this entirely. But so far, I think conception is the only non-arbitrary point in time to have a coherent argument from. That still doesn't mean one should disregard all arguments from the pro-choice side.
The fundamental difference is that the patient would CONTINUE their conscious experience whereas the fetus will only BEGIN it. If it begins, it implies there is none to speak of currently.
@@oliver374 So do you want to balance the extreme uncertainty of a coma patient re-gaining consciousness versus the extreme likely beginning of consciousness of a fetus? To be honest, I don't see a difference... why would the continuation trump the beginning... the result is the same.
You do this structure far more effectively than Crowder ever did. It is refreshing to see mature discourse between two parties. I believe it is imperative that both sides (myself conservative leaning) TALK to each other calmly to help understand each other's reasoning and where we can potentially meet in the middle for sane policy to help move this country forward. Subscribed!
I wonder how much is the interviewer's(crowder vs destiny) influence, how much is editing (crowder leaving out boring/good debaters), and how much is the quality of the people engaging (college leftys being more chaotic than rightys).
@@schwann145 "Bad faith" arguments involve pretending to believe something which he does not. Having a large sign saying "This is what I believe change my mind" doesn't appear to be bad faith. He doesn't hide the terms of the deal and doesn't appear to edit things deceptively, how is it in bad faith? If you mean he is rude, well I agree Crowder appears more rude to those across from him than Destiny does but that may be a function of any one of the options I pointed to. I would argue if anything Destiny acts more out of bad faith (in general) because while he is actually a leftist, he often displays a more measured centrist tone in hopes to move conservatives closer to leftism. He explained this position when Mr. Girl challenged him for having conversations with hard right folks.
@@link10909""Bad faith""arguments involve pretending to believe something which he does not." This is not how most people understand the term "bad faith." Bad faith is understood to mean engaging in dishonest tactics during a debate to muddy the waters or derail a certain point (using any tactic) instead of honestly engaging with the points the way your opponent presents them. Just because you have a large sign announcing your actual belief or just because you were initially honest about your bias and where you're coming from doesn't stop you from engaging in bad faith arguments during the course of a debate. It simply does not follow. If you watch Crowder's "Change My Mind" vids and compare them to Destiny, you'd notice how Crowder is less interested in having an actual discussion to reach a better understanding and more in winning the debate no matter what (the same goes for a lot of Vaush's content, depending on subject), including using dishonest tactics like strawmanning and shifting the goal posts, ie arguing in bad faith. A primary example is his discussion with a college student called Yousef. Iirc Yousef was challenging Crowder's position with some really good arguments, but all it took was him calling a basic doctrine of Crowder's belief system (I think it was the non-aggression principle) autistic for Crowder to latch onto that, pearl-clutch derail the entire discussion instead of letting Yousef make his point.
@@ihsahnakerfeldt9280 the way you described that Yousef argument makes Yousef sound like the one acting in bad faith and Crowder just responding in kind.
I'm glad Destiny says "I feel like" before he says what he thinks life is because it is literally what he feels like it is and not what it actually is. The students debating him messed up when they didn't challenge him on that point.
@@millipedie You are absolutely right, in a moral debate basically everything can be contended, I was just saying they would have had really strong argument against him if they said "hey wait you can't just make up when life starts 🤔 look at basic biology and the fact that doctors, scientists, and many people on the pro-choice side also say that life starts at conception."
@@mlindquist8942 life starts at conception but that’s not really the point. a lot of things are living that we destroy. the argument is when does it become worth protecting. if a fetus is worthy of human rights and protections at the moment of conception, should a woman who has a miscarriage be charged with reckless homicide?
@@millipedie first of all thank you for responding, I really like when people respond to my comments without cussing me out or calling me an idiot 😊 I will try to answer all three points in a way that makes sense #1 we both know life starts at conception, it is very hard to argue that it doesn't, it was frustrating to see the students not contending Destiny on that point and just give in to what he says he thinks life is, it's like they lost the argument before it started. #2 we do destroy a lot of living things (animal farms, plants, fighting wars) but all of those things if done ethically are all justifiable, obviously some killing (like defending yourself or hunting) is not an evil thing and some killing (like first degree murder) is an evil thing, now the sad thing is that people used the same kind of argument to defend slavery by saying that Black people are like cattle so we should be able to own them, that's why we need to uphold rights for all humans no matter their age, color, intelligence or anything else. #3 talking about the potential problems with the laws surrounding unborn humans is a moot point because if fetuses are human beings (which of course they are) then they should be protected like anyone else no matter how difficult it is, right? I certainly don't think we should base our laws on protecting lives off of how difficult it would be to protect certain groups of people.
@@mlindquist8942 im not talking about potential problems when i am asking that. its not to say “well wouldn’t this be tricky!” it is moreso a direct question to you. if a woman has a miscarriage should she be criminally charged with the death of a human being, in your opinion?
The last guy lost me. But that Yash kid was tight. He was ultra nervous, knees weak arms heavy eminem type beat, but when he got more into the convo, man's was actually really solid. Good points, clear engagement, solid counter arguments... Shake off that mom's spaghetti fam, you're good.
this is so much better content than talking with people that cant develop an original thought and apply critical thinking to topics or towards themselves like sneako or others that u have "debated" with.
@@dennyduane consciousness and learning are just stages of developed in one's life. They are not defining factors of the definition of life. The big bang was the beginning of the universe. Not the first star, or the first planet, or the first bacteria, or the first person. It was the big bang. That was what began it all. Same goes with human life, its the fertilization that begins it all.
@@dennyduane technically yes. Because if something does not develop right in the womb, it can impair consciousness and the ability to learn later. A woman must choose the best man to create the best genetics with. Then she must treat her body like a temple to maximize the potential of the baby. She must have positive emotions as well. The baby is connected to her and feeds off that energy. The mother is also contributing more to that development during pregnancy, than the sperm has. Babies only take a fraction of characteristics from the father. Nearly 85% comes from the mother and that is because its spending 9 months inside of her.
This is my first time watching this channel, and I gotta say Destiny is perhaps one of the most articulate and intelligent pro-choice individuals I have ever seen. I guess my only criticism on the arguments made in this video is no one actually makes the distinction between "potential life" and "eventual life" (ie. the probability of life happening in each case should be a significant determining factor on the morality of abortion). Other than that, kudos to Destiny. An absolutely joy to watch.
I am really enjoying these exchanges. Keep it up dude. It's amazing how good intentioned and good faithed you can be when exchanging with these inexperienced dudes. You look great and benevolent. Not at all smug or condecending. Really polished, honest and respectful. Good.
"The broadest scientific definition might be that life is what enables plants and animals to consume food, derive energy from it, grow, adapt themselves to their surroundings, and reproduce." - Dr. Beverly Crusher (STNG) In the context of the episode "cells".
I'm pro-life in the sense that I can't say when life begins, so I don't want to risk killing a life at all. I haven't heard a strong enough argument for when life starts, so I don't choose to risk it. The only thing I'm lenient on is like birth control, health risks or rape, or maybe first week abortion.
At least you acknowledge it's the risk and that's it. Regardless not sure why you justify forcing something on someone who is an alive human as opposed to one that is not proven to have one especially with the worse outcomes of aborted babies being born in foster care.
Well your position it starts a few days after conception, it not conception. Pretty clear, you're not unclear on that. You just can't explain it well. Just where you personally feel the line should be drawn. Which yeah, is garden variety moderate pro-life.
@@DistantKingdom Not really as one can not determine scientifically when this happens during fetus development as not enough current evidence. We can only determine when it definitely can not be given brain not created.
Whoever you agree with more, we can all agree, this is a proper debate, respect on either side for the others opinion and the value of public discourse, love to see it!
I'll always inherently be on the side for an individuals right to choose. I still think a fetus is a life, as much as any single-celled organism and heart beat. Do I care all that much? Not really
It's baffling to me how difficult it is with most of these people to engage with the idea of what conscious experience. They seem to have a really difficult time understanding what it means to experience being alive. It felt like half of the discussion with each person was Destiny trying to explain what a conscious experience is.
@@christianlima987 OP brought up an interesting sticking point which is probably just a way of looking at things that few consider about a fetus since it is isolated and mute and experiences of consciousness are strictly qualitative from current science as far as I'm aware. But that is a consciousness born of a collection of groups of cells throughout the body, not a single cell. A single cell or even a few stages along in development is not "aware" in any sense, it strictly responds to its environment and divides into other cells based on its genetic information like computer instructions, or a math formula. We do not place the weight we do on human life because of any awareness human fetuses have that other mammals do not.
@@MrGgabber In what way? Did you even listen to his reasoning? (The Emergence of Human Consciousness: From Fetal to Neonatal Life. Hugo Lager- crantz and Jean-Pierre changeux in Pediatric Research, Vol. 65, no. 3, pages 255-260; march 2009)
This is why I like Destiny better than people like Charlie Kirk and Ben Shapiro. Those two are looked at as true conservative media when there is 100% better examples. This guy, unlike the two I mentioned, does not try to bait the people he's talking to, isn't rude, and isn't trying to be there to "win" anything by putting people down. Also does not use strawman arguments like those two constantly do.
First guy trips up when stating that the early live of a toddler/child isn't important. Just because one can't remember these moments consciously they are some of the most formative moments of one's life. The emotions and experiences a child has can define the rest of their lives and the possible trauma they have to deal with upon years if the early stages of their live was traumatic. They'll never remember it, but it will stick with them forever.
I feel like he was being misunderstood. I don't think he meant that it wasn't important. It seemed like he meant that it wasn't as sophisticated and developed. It's ghoulish in my opinion for Destiny to imply that a fetus lacks value simply because it hasn't been afforded a chance to develop yet.
Student two is brilliant. I don’t have a strong opinion in favor of him or destiny but the way he presented his arguments were very well thought out especially considering how nervous he was to begin with.
I appreciate that Destiny stays respectful. There's a few other youtubers that do this on campuses, and they are just personally destroying students, calling them dumb, be respectless. Gets no one nowhere.
I feel the online political streamers try to use speed talking without facts or little facts to run past the conversation while others are observing what is being said and responding.
Pro-lifer here. There were some really good conversations in this video and strong arguments presented on both sides, which is great to see. I would like to add my two cents in a couple of places, though, mostly pertaining to the 2nd conversation with Yash. Overall, it seems to me like Destiny's position largely hinges on the usage of the word "potential." As he correctly points out, "potential" can mean a lot of things and be applied in a lot of ways. However, the fundamental flaw with this argument is that "potential" is not the right way to classify/describe a fetus. A fetus is not a "potential" life, it is an *actively developing* life. This might seem like semantics, but I'll provide 2 specific arguments in which it matters a lot: 1) The building analogy where Destiny describes having all the materials and schematics as a "potential" building. The key problem with this analogy is that the building still requires deliberate action in order to be completed. By contrast, the fetus is already actively developing, and barring some sort of medical complication, will only fail to reach completion if there is *deliberate action taken AGAINST it happening*. This, to me, is an incredibly important distinction when discussing morality 2) The discussion about coma patients with a 0.1% chance of living. Similar to above, this is also not an apples to apples comparison. With a fetus, we know that there is an incredibly high chance, barring medical complications, that it will reach consciousness within 24 weeks. The correct comparison here would be "What if we had coma patients with a 98% chance to regain consciousness within 24 weeks." Once again, this changes the discussion quite a bit, in my opinion. I think this is what Yash was trying to get around to at the end of his discussion, but just couldn't quite get there. Overall, this was a fantastic video. Thanks for sharing!
@@Zripas If this is an honest question and not just an argument in bad faith, you're going to have to clearly describe, in exact terms, how you think pregnant women have "less rights than a dead human body." Also, I recommend making sure you actually understand the points Yash makes at around 18:50 - 19:45 and 20:39 - 21:01 before writing that up.
@@kingcars Legally you have no right to do anything with dead body against its previous "owners" or relatives if owner dint expressed any will about it. Yet when it comes to pregnant women you think that you should be able to decide for her what she should do with her body. So in this case pregnant women have less rights than dead body. Its not in bad faith, its pointing out obvious issue with pro lifers arguments here... Its not up to YOU to decide what women should do with her body. If you want to argue otherwise then by this same logic we should be able to take your blood by force against your will to save someone's life. Or take one of your kidneys... Right? After all, it will be saving potential life, so lets use that same rule across everything and not just make special rule for pregnant women... Right?
@@Zripas Again, I recommend watching and actually understanding what's being said in the clips I timestamped in my previous response. Yash perfectly explained the pro life position on this topic in the two clips I linked. The woman isn't being forced to do anything. She made her choice when she decided to parttake in an activity that runs a good chance of resulting in pregnancy. This is also why your attempted analogy is a swing and a miss, not to mention your continued use of the phrase "potential life" when my whole original post explained why that's not a correct classification. A more proper analogy would be if I were to go base jumping, and even with all the best equipment, there was a failure and I broke my legs. I can't then turn around and say "well I didn't consent to having my legs broken." I knew the risks going into it, therefore I must be prepared for any of the potential outcomes.
@@kingcars Your clips are silly... I can debunk it really easily. When you decide to drive a car you have a chance to get into accident and be shredded into pieces, does that mean that you give consent to be shredded into pieces when you sit into car? Consent for sex isn't consent for pregnancy and consent for pregnancy isn't consent to remain pregnant. And just to education people here even more. Abortion is termination of pregnancy, not a killing of fetus as requirement. You can still have abortion at 8 months and get viable fetus/child afterwards, which sometimes is required to save BOTH lives. Will ask you analogous question which should hopefully make it clear for you: Imagine situation where you wake up and you find yourself being attacked to another human with tubes and all, you never agreed to it, but if you disconnect that person will die. Now, question of the century: Do you have right to disconnect?
Life begins at conception, biology is pretty universal with this concept. Destiny tried to argue from vague standards of "consciousness". He didn't even argue if it was alive or not, because it clearly is. Yes, arguing about a soul is arguing from a religious standpoint, and is less effective
Part 1 Wokeness Has Gone Too Far ►ua-cam.com/video/y2PJ7wYU_8Y/v-deo.html
Rest of the abortion debates ►ua-cam.com/video/W_-FPLm1zoc/v-deo.html
I think that people are like ummm.. really stupid.. but I like umm.. still have faith they are like.. umm.. still like.. cognitive to important issues and also.. you know.. give peace a chance.. ya know?
10 Mins in, you just have to ask a conservative if superman (aka jesus) should have human rights. Superman, is literally an illegal alien, so fucking illegal that he doesn't even have human DNA.
Destiny, a fetus having an undeveloped consciousness means nothing. The fact a fetus is human and alive inherently makes killing it meditated premature killing murder. If I have a asshole friend who kills my pet fish, you'd say he murdered your fish. the fishs lack of consciousness means nothing. He still murdered your fish. A child is a mutually owned property by both parents. Intercourse is defined as business and commerce. sexual Intercourse is therefore sexual business and commerce. The fetus is called the product of conception. Literally the product of 2 business partners sexual business and commerce. Since the fetus is a mutually owned product /property regardless if it has a consciousness when a mother decides to get a willful abortion she automatically is engaging in the wrongful destruction of someones property which by definition is a crime. Just like if your friend murders your fish, if your sexual business partner kills your fetus you can therefore claim she murdered your baby. Its the same thing. A sexual union is the legal consummation of marriage. In marriage union the partners are no longer legally considered independent beings. By law your spouse literally is considered a part of yourself. Thats why married couples cant be compelled to testify against their partner in court, beceause your spouse is literally and legally yourself. The bible says the two married people shall become 1flesh and is why a marriage union is treated as such in our secular court system. After a woman has sex which is technically the finalization of a marriage there no longer exists this idea of 'my body my choice' no beceause you have legally and sexually entered a union. A wife's body no longer is her own but is also her husbands and vise versa the wife literally owns the husbands body too. Thats what a union is, a combining of 2 into 1. The Bible also says it as well, says that the man owns the woman and the woman owns the man. there is no independence nor individuality in a legal union. When a woman aborts a fetus yes she destroys her own body but since her body is owned also by her husband it also means she is wrongfully destroying his property as well, which is a crime.
By arguing a toddlers consciousness is sufficient to call it alive than clearly a fetus kicking in the womb should be sufficient proof to call it conscously alive. Destiny unwittingly was arguing the other guys point. Besides if a single celled organism is fundamentally considered alive, No life anywhere is measured by consciousness. Even if AI becomes coscious and self aware it wont be considered alive. Though id still be wrong to destroy someones robot even though the destruction of it isnt murder , its destruction would still be a willful crime just the same as destroying a fetus except a gestating fetus is objectively alive and so we call its destruction murder
A fetus is not a potential life its actually alive although parasitic in its nature a born child will die if left on its own and so even the born baby is a parasite doesn't justify killing it . PARASITIC life is still alive
I'm interested to hear Destiny's opinion on abortion, as you often hear conversations such as these monopolized by men, it's refreshing to get a woman's perspective.
Ok I’ll accept this one
Guys the joke is that destiny is a girl's name. If destiny was a girl, this wouldn't be funny. AMAZIN
Hahaha
YOU
@@johnlonne7062 I don't understand why you would think reproductive rights were meant to be a joke..? Not a good look man.
what i love about this is that destiny isn't here to win, he's here to talk. and the millisecond the talk devolves, he puts the discussion back on track, and when the talk has been talked, he's quick to conclude and thank the participant. there is absolutely zero aggression, and so much courtesy. absolutely wonderful.
Shows you the difference between left and the right
@@alrulz6402 The terms Destiny uses to describe himself is "Omniliberal" (a term coined by Destiny to represent his "better" version of neoliberalism) and "a very big social democrat".
@ToonahFish he's talking about the guests. Right wing people in general are infinitely more likely to have discussions like this. Even destiny admits right wing people are "nicer" than left wing. Destiny is also considered an enemy of the left, so he's much more "right wing" optically. Left wing people just show up public debates to hold signs and scream.
@@whatNtarnation90 If you wholeheartedly believe that political stances on complex topics that require extensive debate dictate one's temper and their ability to have a conversation, then maybe consider that the media that you personally consume is literally tailored to what you desire to see.
u mean when he lost the argument, hes quick to end it
It’s actually refreshing to see destiny help them out in formulating their arguments rather than massively dunking on em at every given chance.
It's definitely a different approach but don't you think that arguments are meant to be conclusive? Otherwise you'll talking endlessly. Destiny does not have a good point and no one can convince him so it would have been fine to end the conversation quicker
@@monadouroboros that is quite literally the opposite of how a debate is supposed to work lol
@@alexhendrickson5388 well if you can't argue with sufficient convincing points then the conversation ends what's the matter with that
@@monadouroboros because then there's no debate. and a lot of times those "sufficient convincing points" are not points at all. they're just plain dunks or gotchas and there's little to learn from those types of "debates"
@@alexhendrickson5388 you might see it that way, when debating you're presenting relevant information to counter the opponent. You're ideas will be challenged and if you don't have the resources you will feel that way.
Leaving the final word always to the other person is a really great gesture of good faith, possibly it will encourage more people to come and chat in the future
Sounds like your just coping with the fact that your boy destiny got completely NUKED FROM ORBIT by the first guy.
@@balooojeffersong4234 Lmao
@@diversitydeliverer7094 got something to say tough guy?!!
@@balooojeffersong4234 Yeah your dumb comments are hilarious
@@balooojeffersong4234 are you 15? It's a rhetorical question, don't answer...
That second kid was so nervous... kudos on him for going through it anyways.
While he is nervous, I think he is still very well-spoken. I understood what he was talking about. When I am nervous, I stutter and stumble, and become wholely incoherent. ಥ‿ಥ
@@iamhereblossom1588 Not giving a value-judgement on his argument. Nor am I saying I didn't understand his argument. I am not sure what you are getting at with this comment.
and kudos to Destiny for kindly throwing him a quick life raft to get him back on track and reorganize his thoughts in that opening moment
@@cesper554 that was good on Destiny. Otherwise.... Things might have gone off the rails quick for the young man.
@@cesper554 he's been kind of duo-ing as a moderator during this little segment of vids from the looks of things. i think it's nice that he's giving a chance to college kids to debate but not making it entirely hostile despite the weight of the subject.
Student 2 Yash, had a way better take and line of reasoning to counter Destiny than 99% of the people Ive heard him debate and discuss. Great conversation.
Why do you believe destiny didn’t push back more on some things?
@@ucouldtell3326 he wanted to try his reasoning without priming too much probably
No he didn't. He kept asserting that the potential for life is attached to the fetus but contradicted that earlier when he attached the potential for life to action, when he claimed that having sex has the potential for life thus a person concedes agency by having sex.
@@Voidapparate I imagine if he had more time he would've gone deeper on the subject, but at the end he mentioned a difference between a positive action of getting an abortion to end the potential vs a negative action of avoiding the fetus developing in the first place
@@Astric24 timestamp?
Honestly, that first debater really flips hard. He went from saying all life is precious, to toddlers, ain’t worth shit.
i think ur getting wrong idea. 1st guy said any kind of potential life is important even fetus, but destiny said he define life with consciousness thus fetus arnt really life. so 1st guy said in his view toddler have not fully develope consciousness so does toddler worth less then fully develpoed consciousness is what he wants to say. i think.
@@jameslee-kh5xt That’s the problem though. He doesn’t understand Destiny‘s arguments. He doesn’t seem to understand that just because the toddlers conscious thoughts are not done developing. That doesn’t mean that they are not there. A toddler can laugh. Cry learn a new language faster than most adults. There are so many complex processes going on in a toddlers brain in order to help it grow. The idea that toddlers don’t have a consciousness is just an insane statement to make if you are pro life, or even if you’re pro-choice. It shows that he either doesn’t understand what Destiny is talking about or is just a psycho.
@@jordanwhite8718 no they just don't agree on each others points. they just view what fetus are like every other pro-choice pro-life people. To me Destiny point of view does not make sense because i see life as conception/fertilization. Destiny said fetus is like construction materials in construction site and finished building is human, but for me materials are sperm n egg, n as fertilization happens the building is being built automatically n 9 month it is finished.
@@jameslee-kh5xtbut why conception? if sperm and eggs are left to the process they will eventually fuse together so why not consider basic genetic material?
The issue is that in no other cases after birth do you consider this to be the definition of life. A brain dead person can have their life support turned off and it's not considered murder because we don't see a person there anymore. Why are you only considering cell replication life during pregnancy but not considering it life at the other end?
@@jeffparent2159 Ur example of ' Human being in process of dying(Brain dead)' and ' Sperm n Egg creating new life' like they are same thing is not right example to give.
One is process of death(brain dead) and other is beginning of life(fertilazation). The reason why " A brain dead person can have their life support turned off and it's not considered murder" is because life support are used to stop natural process of dying. But if person is on life support waiting for essential organ and some one just pull the plug for him to die, it will be murder.
If you leave both case to process, fetus will became human being and brain dead person will be corpse.
“Maybe you’re just not a fan of toddlers… are you a pit bull fan?” Best destiny joke ever
10:26
I hate that I was trying to make a connection between Mr Worldwide and toddlers for a good 5 minutes.
@@alexandermasters7827 hahahaha
Damb, mad respect to the second guy, Yash. A bit nervous but still well spoken. No disconnects from reality or hyper emotional arguments. I understand everything he said, I respect his arguments and think they're pretty good for his side, even if I disagree. Mad Props
Word. He seems like someone who you could compromise with.
@@edmaldonado8207 For sure. Definitely a person looking to expand their view instead of just trying to play defense.
Yeah I agree with what he says for the most part
I mean, its the same argument every pro-lifer gives: fetuses have the potential for life and its this potential that makes it wrong to get an abortion....except then you'd have to concede that sperm and eggs have the potential for life as well which anyone would agree isn't true and therefore demonstrates this argument is garbage lol.
Don't let this facade distract you from the fact that Destiny is actually pro-women's names
@@johnlonne7062 🤓🤓
Preach!
Probably why shes so interested in women's rights.
AHAHAHAHAAHAAAHAHAHAHAAAA 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Getting lame now
What you are doing is admirable. It shows that college kids do still care about developing their positions. As someone a generation older than you, I see much of my own maturity and development through your journey to understand yourself, the universe, and seek fulfillment through purposeful action. Probably a lame non-meme comment but whatever. Keep it up!
Tbh, he was criticizing right wingers for doing what he does.
@@notoriousriot250 how so?
@@IRepko but destiny doesnt only debate college kids
@@IRepko oh now i understand what you meant
Great comment.
Yash's journey was fantastic to watch. It's always cool to see someone get more comfortable with their environment in real time. Kudos Yash.
Too bad his position is totally unintelligible.
@@paulmd7747 quite the opposite. He had the most concrete and grounded in moral and legal theory point.
@@KoRNeRd Destiny clearly pointed out the hypocrisy and contradictory nature of his point and he sort of just ignored it. Yash's point is this. . . "abortion shouldn't be allowed if a woman is just being an irresponsible slut." The problem with this position is that you are forced to allow abortion if the woman was raped. . . thus meaning you don't consider the fetus a person deserving rights. Yash's entire "potential" position is totally irrelevant if he agrees that it is acceptable to end that potential when the woman isn't being a slut but not ok to end that potential when she is.
@@paulmd7747 another way of saying you couldnt follow it
@@paulmd7747 lmao jokes on you
I think Yash sounded like a younger version of destiny. Very fast spoken and concise. And got further down the line than a lot of pro life people make it. Better debates from college students than I would have expected.
I thought you said YAUSH for a second there
not enough gay f words
I think the only time Yash started running into contradictions was at the end of the conversation where he started getting into the potentiality stuff, where destiny correctly pointed out that he was kind of dancing between the two concepts of referring both to potentiality and to the thing itself.
son of the CEO of google
@@edclink5068 the conservative arch enemy of Vaush
so much better than crowder:
(1) no controlling the mic (so you can cut off your opponent from making complete arguments)
(2) no bovine audience to applaud your sarcastic one-liners (so you can further unsettle your inexperienced opponent)
(3) no avoidance of pre-event publicizing (so you can avoid experienced debaters)
The thing is you want to try to avoid publicizing it or else all you are gonna get is fans. In the Livestream, destiny had a hard time finding people to argue cause the audience was nothing but fans. The more of a surprise the event is, the more your opposition will come.
@@austinhale5699 good point, i often wonder if crowder only lets his fans know when he does his because he is always surrounded by fans that cheer on all his gotchas
@@kevinmcdonald6560 not as much as you think. I used watch crowders change my mind videos all the time (though stopped watching him after seeing his live streams are nothing but screw you jokes to the left and his content at one point for 2 months was about how the election was stolen) the video don't usually contain that many cheers or jeers from the crowd. Hell he had people cheer for him and he has had people boo him
@@austinhale5699 yeah i used to watch him too, i do recall some guy called yusef(?) who got the crowd to cheer him on against crowder, was interesting, i recall nick fuentes interviewing him afterwards
I wouldn’t want to discount the good discussions Crowder has had - he’s been at this for a while now and of course theres been some bad ones, like with that socialism debate for example where Crowder was getting mad.
What I like about Destiny is that He seems to be debating in good faith.
I am a Christian and a pro lifer and I have not seen much of Him but I really liked the first debate.
Not dumbing down and trying to help and debate in good faith.
God bless!
Get well soon
@@johnl6192 Jesus Christ died for our sins!
if you’re interested in an apposing position check out abolitionists rising on youtube, great channel that gives some interesting arguments against abortion and from a christian perspective 🤝
The worst part about the abortion conversation is that we have only 2 sides, pro-life and pro-choice, but it is such a nuanced conversation that I feel like two people could have the exact same beliefs but identify differently as pro-life/pro-choice.
At the end of the day no one wants abortions to happen and I think this common ground is often ignored when debating this topic.
"No one wants abortions to happen"
Then, ban it.
The fact is; people want the choice to abort and not carry a child to term. Otherwise, they would carry the child to term and give the child up for adoption or keep the child.
Abortion is an unnecessary and evil choice.
@@awilson8521 Fair enough, and how do you feel about exceptions for rape or instances where if the pregnancy is carried to term the life of the mother is greatly endangered?
you'd be surprised to know lots of people celebrate the abortions, as if its something to be proud of.
@@out_of_orbit1968 Lot's of people as in more than 0.5% of the population?
Clearly some people want abortions to happen
Even thou I dont agree with Yash's perspective I can't deny that it is such a great way of seeing things. He was so nervous talking about this whole thing. Thumbs up for Yash!
Yosh actually put the most compelling argument forth out of everybody although he was so nervous.
Reverse-empathy is real.. so many people’s faux-empathy (like: i’d keep all braindead individuals sustained by machinery, no matter the cost/resource required, on the basis that they COULD possibly wake up) is actually just the fear of a world in which THEY themselves could be wronged/neglected/eradicated. The whole mentality is not ‘killing a being that has potential is wrong’, it is ‘killing me if i have potential’ or ‘removing my chance of achievement’ is wrong.
The big argument is whether or not a foetus has any sentient feeling. I believe all living creatures have a similar level of life-awareness and personal value for existence. I DO NOT believe that any creature is objectively less valuable than a human. This is where the debate loses me because it is soaked in human self-preservation and essentially, narcissism.
Now, if i have a being inside of me, that i did not want, although it was admittedly my fault/mistake, silly constructs and principals of ‘A means B and ‘If C is C then D must mean E’, will not be of more value to me than being free to not accept a life-changing and health/body changing process that involves a being existing inside me that is parasitic by nature.
I cut through all the BS, life is not precious, it is abundant and only worth what other beings deem it to be but objectively it is not worth anything in the scheme of things so if i have a choice of limiting my life (by accepting a circumstance that i did not desire) or not, then i would be comfortable in ending a very basic version of ‘a life’ to preserve my life/health/wellbeing/freedoms.
@@phantasticmrphasma9874 So you have characterized the larger pro-life take of not turning life support off for people as narcissism, but don't recognise the irony of then saying you would snip the umbilical cord to prevent something that was the result of your own actions.
I feel the best counter to Destiny would be asking him if necrophilia is motally neutral. If he only values experience then he should think so
@@phantasticmrphasma9874 Technically speaking, sure. Children are parasites. But you auto-lose all credibility when you literally want to say that foetuses are parasites. And no, "parasitic in nature" does not fix anything. I understand what you're trying to say, but you _need_ to use different language to describe it. Talking about kids as parasites is just absurdly cringe.
@@fourtyseven47572 The counter to that was that you value the conscious experience of the friends and family of the person involved, and that you value the conscious experience of people who would feel better with the assurance that they wouldn’t have their corpse defiled once they died.
Yash's arguments were such a pleasent surprise. I was always very mathematical in my approach to moral statements (i.e. invoking rational agency arguments) in order to walk through heated discussions like this, but the last couple of years of internet debate bros made me lost in the spectacle. Major shoutout to Yash for rejuvenating my interest and I sincerely hope Destiny takes some notes from that exchange for future debates.
Which person was Yash? The first dude?
Oh, nevermind. He’s the second dude, I hadn’t watched that far yet. Yeah he seems pretty smart.
I'd literally bet money that Yash has an I.T. or STEM major, he seems to have that "engineer mind" where you logically go from one section of the problem to another. "Thinking like a computer" is what it was called by my programming professor, because to be a good programmer you literally have to get into the mindstate of a dumb ass machine [It sounds really stupid but it's a thing trust me, ask programmers or even network security folks like me.] Some people use that way to analyze lots of things in life and while it can be good lots of times, a dash of creativity is always welcome.
He was fine, but his consequential argument can be pushed back on really hard. Destiny chose not to for whatever reason, but saying "agreeing to have sex is agreeing to potentially become pregnant" is not a winning stance. Which seemed to be the crux of his position.
@@deebo429__ Because it's a stupid standard to apply that we don't apply to most actions we take.
You stepped outside, you agree to the consequences of second hand smoke, one of which is lung cancer.
You got in a car, you agree to the consequences of being T-Boned.
You went on a date with a stranger, you agree to the consequences of potentially meeting a predator, one of which is r@pe.
etc etc etc.
Just because an action has an outcome that is POSSIBLE does not mean engaging in an activity consents to that possible outcome. Especially in the case of sex where often specific measure are taken to avoid the undesired outcome
The issue with abortion is that people assign moral weight to both sex and to abortion, so they want to apply special scrutiny. But the logic behind this scrutiny is not at all well founded imo.
I appreciate the amount of decorum Destiny exhibits talking to random college students. It's very nice
"maybe you just hate toddlers, are you a pitbull fan?" deceased
The dog or the rapper
@@MediumDSpeaks the rapping dog
@@MediumDSpeaks
The group of breeds colloquially referred to as pit bulls
Such a good joke deserved at least a chortle, not the dead silence it got
That guy destroyed destiny so bad destiny had to attack his character.
I’m finding the first student’s attempt to dismantle what Destiny is saying really interesting. In what universe can the first 2-5 years of a person’s life simultaneously is the most important to their lifelong wellbeing, and overall trajectory for their life, but also be “less important” than the rest of their life’s conscious experience? He didn’t really think this one through too much, and I’m surprised that Destiny didn’t bring up the fact that these formative years stick with you all your life whether you remember them or not.
I'd say your time in the womb is pretty formative as well haha
You didn't get it. He was arguing by contradiction. It is dubious toddlers have the same full consciousness as an adult, but concluding they are worth less is absurd.
(BUT: Brave New World/WEF types do see newborns as candidates for abortion, as evidenced by new laws being proposed, but then again they would extend this to all non-elite people--just beasts of burden.)
I love these "Change My Mind" vids! Thank you for keeping this format alive. I think it's a really neat way to get discussions going!
I’m pro-mind yo business.
I’d like to ask these pro-life people.. if your wife or daughter was in a extremely high risk labor and the obgyn doctor came out of the room and said.. you have one choice.. either the child survives or your wife dies. What would be their choice? If they’re pro-life.. how do they let either the mom or child die?
Doctrine of double effect?
Thats im just gonna tell ya disingenuous. Why tf do you think a pro choice person wouldnt have trouble choosing between there child and their partner. 😂😂😂😂😂😂 why do you think id or anyone would go well if its 50 50 im choosing for the woman here. Because she has zero agency in a 50 50.
Now if youre saying its going to kill the mother to have the baby. The question becomes what does she want. Police, doctors, security, jail workers, SOLDIERS choose others lives over their own allot. In terms of i can catch a deadly disease, i could be shot, i could be a pow and tourtured for life. If these people can choose that for people they probably dont even know. Why is it that we shouldnt ask the mother in this situation "do you want to live or die for them to live. Theres going to be a sacrifice made and youre the one that has any understanding of your position in this"
Yash is based, he addressed most of Destiny's probing with a pretty consistent principle. Probably the best pro-life proponent Destiny has debated on the abortion topic.
Most pro-life people would not consider him pro-life since he conceded he would allow abortions for rape victims and minors. By that standard even Destiny is pro-life - he would criminalise abortions >20weeks.
jesus seems like pro life and pro choice are just arbitrary terms haha@@cyrusp100
Yash has a large brain, he'll be going places
Really enjoyed this... You're not talking down to people or disrespecting their opinion, but simply engaging in an amicable discourse in hopes of reaching a rational point of view
It must’ve been difficult because anti-choice people are idiots
To me it's pretty simple, you can't debate this argument (as a secularist/humanist) using simplistic morality or zoning in on "when something is alive". That can go to ridiculously complicated places, like not jerking off to commit mass genocide of sperms... The simple thing is, value human life. There're two humans here, the mother and the baby. Which one has more value? Well, I'd say most people would subjectively believe the mother does, because she objectively is more useful (can make more babies) and she has a deep, rich life experience, memories, loved ones, maturation, goals etc. The baby, is a clean slate regardless of "if it's alive" or not.
Now, the baby is still a life at that point. It's a simple life, much less developed than even a dog at that point, though. However, it has the potential to be fully developed human, the most advanced life form we know of. That makes it more valuable than a dog. It's not only objectively more advanced, it's the parent's child. So, subjectively and objectively the baby has a lot of value. BUT, most would still argue less value than the mother of the child... so....
If the mom is in danger... If the mom is emotionally scarred in the way she got the baby... if the mom has no support to properly raise this baby... the mom gets to decide. A healthy, happy mom in a good relationship will most likely never decide to get an abortion. A mom with lots of support will most likely not decide to get an abortion. But a mom that has been raped, a mom who's life is in danger, a mom who has been thrown away by her partner and family... let's just say you need to save yourself before you can take care of others.
In a healthy society, abortions would not happen no matter how many clinics existed. I use the same argument for guns. In a healthy society, school shootings wouldn't happen no matter how many guns get sold. Abortion is NOT the problem. And the argument (at least mine) has nothing to do with when life starts. Life is already there. It's in the dad, the mom, the sperm. Consciousness is a cloud of abstraction. But what's real is the value humans give to different people, at different times.
Now that's a really good argument ya got there man.
Very Very well Said . That should really be the discussion really.
The Yosh discussion was really good, you should debate him again with more time. He really made me think.
i consider myself in the center but lean right, absolutely love watching destiny and these change my minds. Destiny is sharp and articulate. I don't always agree with him but its refreshing to hear someone who is as well spoken as him
Well spoken doesnt mean start. The man has 0 knowledge about what he is talking about. He said cancer is normal. And that toddlers have complex understanding. They cant even shit in a toilet. But they recognize they are alive? Lol
@@edwardlynch6550 a complex understanding in the way their able to take in the environment and interact with it and able to learn right and wrong. Also yes cancer is normal, you can get cancer out of nowhere simply because your cells like to “protest” but your government secret police (immune system) stomps them and commit genocide against the “protesters”. I just used geopolitics to describe a immune response lmao.
I consider myself in the center and lean center lol
The right and left have become far to extreme for my taste but when it comes to abortion I’m pro life .
Said well
very important to listen to people we don't always agree with. I try that with ben sharpiro, he just gets way to extreme too often
To student 1: I would even go as far as saying the experiences a toddler makes are some of the most important ones in a human life. We learn the basic things at that point like balancing and understanding other humans.
Yea honestly the first few years of life are the most formative! Let's say you have a person who was severely abused as a baby. They might not remember that when they are grown, but it would have a significant impact. So many neural pathways are being solidified in those years. Anyhow there is an inherent value in consciousness. If I had the choice to save a newborn baby or 1 thousand embryos in a lab, I am going to save the baby.
Student 1 was trying to say is that your memories define make who you are. If you lost all ur memories u wouldnt be the same person that you once were.
How can you not say the same of a fetus' experiences?
I don’t think you’re right here. If the importance of consciousness is based on how fundamental the cognitive properties being formed are, it would suggest that the foetus’ is greater since the groundwork for what you are referring to is laid at that stage. This would mean the foetus’ consciousness would be superior to everything after it, degrading as age progresses.
Really enjoyed the conversation between Destiny and Yash. I admire the way they both argued in a productive way.
It is so refreshing to hear a respectful, mutual conversation about a hot political topic. The conversation flows so much better when both parties are respectful. This is done way better than Crowder! Love the new content!
It's better content because conservatives actually talk about what they believe. The last change my mind video Destiny (a girl's name) did, wasn't exactly bad content; but dude, it's just night and day. The average college progressive/"liberal" is brain rotted. It's clear these students have engaged with their own positions.
but, its not crowders fault directly. people hate him bc he is on the right. if his name was joe blow with no show and a vocal republican, it would be just as nice as this. this is also polite bc destiny is largely seen as ON THE LEFT> there fore he does not cause TDS or auto hate syndrome. if you watch crowders CMM, he is beyond respectful and nice and gives benefit of the doubt to the person who sits down.
@@rttp-righttothepoint6656 Crowder uses tactics to rile the other person up if he can (if you watched his CMM you know this is true), he'll use his binder as a bludgeon in debates against people but never actually reference it and does surprise visits so no one can actually challange him. He has zero intention of changing his mind because his mind is his brand and that's his living.
Contrasted, Destiny schedules the event, is way more respectful and I fully expect that the thumbnail for any CMM could say, "This student totally changes my mind on this", in big bold red letters as has been the case before
I watched crowder for years previously because he had the only conversational platform. He would instigate the other party which would obviously make the other person uncomfortable and that is when someone is less likely to say or argue the points they may actually feel. When the conversation flows in a comfortable manner, the other person tends to feel comfortable enough to argue their side properly. That is where Crowder fails. I stopped watching because I was looking for a mutual, respectful conversation. I wanted to hear both sides evenly.
@@connorcampbell5274 oof just say you're hyperpolarized and move on brother, no need to waste your time looking for other seals to clap with you. like xo you really think talking like this, does anything positive for anything other than ostracizing the other side? just got to get that dunk huh? but Republicans for sure are just the intellectual paragon of politics I guess
The second guy had some really great points, but was just hampered by his confidence and ability to articulate those points. I’d like to see what he is like in a few years and has some more life experience under him.
acting as if 90% of people on campus wouldn't be the same if under the same circumstances. And of those people how many would have the courage to use their own reasoning
@@Ludwig1625 not a single thing in their comment implied that others on campus wouldn’t be nervous too. All they said was that they’d like to hear their arguments in a few years. That’s it. Nothing more. Nothing less
@@Ludwig1625the fact that your name is meant to reference Beethoven and you're being smug and trying to either purposefully misinterpret the comment or be dumb is rich
his arguments were also so much more thought out. he was considering many nuances of the idea before presenting his point
That last guy couldn’t stop. “ when I say DNA I mean biologically.“ then five minutes later “ when I say DNA I mean philosophically“
I don't agree with abortion but I don't agree with stupidity either. If a woman or child is raped they should NEVER be sentenced to now expand the bloodline of the rapist
Brother, you are on to something here. Your practicing what everyone preaches. Almost anyone doing what you're doing will take shitty shots at opponents, talk down to them, in general, some of them that are good can make it subtle but it's just not in good faith and I feel like the more these videos you do the more it's going to shine a light on those behaviors you see like people are so used to seeing that they just think that's just the way you need to debate that's the way you have to act I mean people are are that kind of ignorant and I think it's important that officially younger folks have the opportunity to see what it looks like when somebody truly in good faith is there to have a discussion and and well trying to persuade the person treating them with respect I mean it's amazing the way you're treating these kids I mean I flew off the handle watching the video I was so pissed off at a couple of them keep doing what you're doing bro this is this is some powerful s***
I love how destiny slips a joke in every once in a while to make the person feel comfortable
It certainly made me feel comfortable and I’m hidden behind a screen.
Drama is fun but I think content like this should be encouraged, amazin job
My dad was in a coma and we had to pull the plug. They said to him, it felt like he was drowning. Every gasp of breath was painful. He was kept alive by machines but was basically being tortured. We pulled the plug to release him from the pain and suffering we were causing just to keep him alive. The first kid just doesn’t get it.
You mu rdered your own father.
@@ravichandrakumarchouturi1900 And I’ll do it again! Bop bop!
So you think it's equal to stop a life of a person that's being tortured by being alive and stop a life that is healthy and normally developing and everything is fine, lol
@@buusteed99 yes
@@seaurchin4451
Iq -10000000
The experience and net consciousness of a toddler is waaaaaay closer to the 30 year old than to that of a sub 24 week fetus.
A toddler is still aware they exist, while a fetus at that stage does not. Most pro lifers struggle with that.
Yeah but a baby that was just born would have a closer conscious to a fetus than a 30 year old man. Is it ok to kill a baby right after it's born?
@@loadingerror9975 Are you arguing that's what happens?
the discussion with the 2nd guy was really, really good
i would even go so far as to say i would really like to see a follow up debate with that guy.
yash was spitting some fire
facts. i literally came to comments to see what ppl were saying after that and everyone is quiet.
I've never seen destiny lose a debate like that.
i was like fuck he got smoked.
@@westerngroovetv I don't think Destiny got smoked. Yosh fared much better than the rest of the students imo, but Destiny kind of caught him at the end when he brought up the different "what if" scenarios. What I believe Yosh did extremely well was stay fairly consistent with his viewpoints, and despite being nervous articulated them very well.
I think Yash did great, but I think near the end, destiny was displaying that his argument was pretty arbitrary - just like destiny's. Why wouldn't the act of condoms or birth control be immoral itself?
Except it's not arbitrary. Using Destiny's own metaphor, having building materials and then destroying them is not the same as destroying a building. But as soon as you begin putting the pieces together (egg + sperm) then the potential of that building comes into play because they are no longer separate parts.
I can’t say I’m a huge fan of destiny but after watching his debates I have so much respect for the manner in which he debates in good faith, and also the fact that he seems to not cherry pick silly college freshmen with little knowledge to make himself look good, I.e. Steven crowder
Indeed, he's does it better. Crowder is a joke
Why not just say that you don't like Crowder? They're doing the same exact thing here. Also, Crowder holds these in all sorts of locations, not just colleges. The videos are out there, so there's no excuse to not know this unless you just don't care or you're just lazy.
Whatever you believe, I appreciate Destiny and have a new found respect for him. That's coming from a conservative. He is a great example of having a conversation. Doesn't matter if I agree or disagree with him, I just enjoy hearing his views. It's important to share like this.
Make debates with Yash a regular thing on your stream on various topics. He is good at debates and was able to articulate them well
Yeah, with some experience he might lose his excessive nervousness. Could be good then.
I disagree. Yash's position made no sense. It was all post hoc justifications for his personal opposition to people avoiding consequences for sexual activity. Pretty obvious that he actually does support abortion, but is personally against people being able to have sex for the purpose of pleasure and not pregnancy.
@@paulmd7747 I'm curious where you got that from. Sounds like you're only assuming. There is no such thing as having sex only for pleasure. There is always a risk for pregnancy, unless the man/woman is sterile or have had their tubes tied or a vasectomy, and whether you ignore that or not does not change the reality that one of the results of sex is conception followed by pregnancy. People that use the sex for pleasure argument are merely dodging their own accountability for the pregnancy.
I appreciated the nervousness. It's very human and he articulated himself so well in spite of it. Destiny comes across arrogant even though I appreciate his intent with these segments.
Actual best Destiny content, love these real world conversations. This is way better than those Crowder vids where he just plays gotcha. These conversations feel way more good faith and real, plus the college kids seem way smarter than Crowder vids (wow when you put in the best and smartest people you talk with rather than the dumbest people you end up with good discourse rather than hammering down talking points, who could have guessed lol). I'm pro choice, but I thought the 2nd guy Destiny talked with made some decent arguments and stood his ground even though he was nervous, although he wasn't able to sway me over to his side.
This is the same exact thing as the crowder vids. Destiny just confirms your biases and Crowder doesn’t
@@sdjslkdjlsskldjslkdjsl8262 same bro i fuck with crowder but even i have to admit hes not the most honest debater.
@@Charge11 Is it? The format is the same but Destiny feels like he is engaging in much better faith. No book of stats to pull gotchas out of and no interrupting of the students. He had more conversations that are in this video and he did them all live so we know all of them, he isn't just selectively choosing the ones that make him look best like Crowder does.
@@Charge11 Literally nothing like Crowder's and if you can't distinguish that then you must be extremely new to the debate community
@@sdjslkdjlsskldjslkdjsl8262 I've noticed that, he suddenly gets upset at the use of some words but at the same time he claims to be all about free speech and anyone who gets upset over words is a snowflake
First destiny vid I've watched in 2 months. Title and thumbnail managed to hook me, good work August
Don't let that first guy anywhere near me or my children lol
That Yash guy seems really bright and brought up some very valid points.
I’m pretty pro life, but I do appreciate the conversation coming from Destiny. It’s rare to have an articulate conversation coming from the left without personal attacks and it’s nice to see. Thank you Destiny for not attacking my beliefs or character for holding an opinion.
Shit opinion but it is yours
It’s rare for either side to have a debate without dumbing it down with personal attacks.
This behavior was uniquely a liberal behavior before the wokies took over.
bro yash is on top of his shit i thought he was gonna fold multiple times but nope he was able to articulate his position very well and stay morally and logically consistent
I do agree that he stayed morally and logically consistent, but his argument still fell apart upon scrutiny. But he is consistent which I very much appreciate.
saying something is right because it's "natural" or "comes naturally" is a logical fallacy. anytime i hear someone bring up that logically fallacy in arguments about where life begins and abortion debates i wanna so badly explain why it's not a proper explaination or justification for a pro-life or even a pro-choice argument. as always these videos are so interesting and important, thank u
Nobody said "it's right because it's natural".
That phrase doesn't even mean anything.
What is "it" even referring to??
What logical fallacy are you referring to? There is such thing as an antecedents and consequences in logic.
@@awilson8521 Naturalistic fallacy.
I dont understand, life literally does begin at conception and willfully killing your offspring out of convenience (as in the vast majority of cases) in abortion is objectively wrong. “bu-bu-but the woman cant care for the baby!” As I said, a convenience issue that couldve been solved in the bedroom where the female willfully engaged in an action that not only could, but is literally designed to get her pregnant (and not to mention penetrative sex is not the only way for both individuals to get their orgasms there are safer alternatives or just pull out) and as such when you take that risk and inevitably get pregnant that is on you. And not just you, but the newly formed life that is inside of you which is an entirely separate human lifeform biologically which you *do not* have the right to straight up murder it out of your own personal sense of convenience because it violates your hedonistic and degenerative life style of having trains ran on your holes. Simple as that. Morality is objective, Murder of the innocent is wrong.
@@samuraidog1510 "because it violates your hedonistic and degenerative life style of having trains ran on your hole" Casually generalizing people that get abortions as whores, nice.
""out of your own personal sense of convenience" You're seriously downplaying the potential harm that a potentially single, financially incapable mother could have on a child. Sure, there are people that go above and beyond to support their family in dire situations, but not everyone is equipped that way. Them going through 20+ years of financial and mental hardship is not a correct punishment for getting pregnant even though you used protection and all the necessary precautions to not get pregnant.
"entirely separate human lifeform": What makes a clump cells defined as this? Until the last-ish few weeks of pregnancy, there is no conscious experience, there is no active brain, there is no memory, etc. There's not much genetically that defines a clump of human cells as having specific human attributes, therefore there is no intrinsic human value.
"life literally does begin at conception" Sure, biological functions like cell replication, the very basic formation of bones and organs, etc., but, as stated in the above point, personhood doesn't.
"As I said, a convenience issue that couldve been solved in the bedroom" They can't be solved though, they can be marginally prevented. Condoms and pills only work so well. So you think people should just stop having causal sex because of the risk of getting pregnant? Delusional.
But you might say 'Oh, but the fetus still has the POTENTIAL to become a human' Sure, there are lots of things that have the potential to become a lot of valuable things. But why does the prevention of something that has valuable potential designate that thing at that very moment, in this case a clump of human cells or a fetus during the early stages of pregnancy, to have the same value as the thing that it has the potential to be? A 9 year old girl as the potential to be a hot 22 year old that I could have sex with, but that doesn't mean I am allowed to treat her the same way as that potential 22 year old.
Great video Destiny. Nice to see civilized discourse, and I thought you hosted this with charm and grace. Bravo
Student 2 was great, with more practice and confidence he would be able to debate destiny and the like with ease. He should make a channel!
yeah, dude seems very interesting
Agree!
the first student is well spoken. at some point he was trying to follow argument to a conclusion that destiny wasn't making i think. he was saying that since destinys claim is that life begins when you develop consciousness, that means a toddler who has a comparatively less developed brain is a lesser life because its not as conscious (?) , which is not what destinys argument concludes to. this was not resolved, destiny instead took the path of arguing that toddlers do have a complex conscious experience which the student fumbled by not conceding that because to my understanding the first couple years of your life are VERY important for shaping who you will become because so many complex things are happening that are fundamental for children. I think the point destiny was trying to make in the first place was a human life begins when a fetus first develops that specific human consciousness and that the level of cognitive ability doesn't matter, as long as it has that uniquely human experience it is a human life
This
His argument did have a HUGE blunder by relying on the word "natural." That word was doing some heavy lifting for him.
Destiny was nice to let him get away with it, but I get it -- it's supposed to be an abortion debate, not a a philosophy one.
The reason the first few years are important is because they unconsciously take everything in. Which was his point. Like destinys example a single cell and light. But if we did use your logic the 9 months is very important in shaping an individual for the whole of life.
His point was since consciousness is developing even after birth how do you justify pre birth being the cut off.
What is it experiencing in the womb when it develops a brain?
@@mo.ka.9661 ‘having a unique relationship with its parents’ according to the last guy
thank god someone that actually knows how to debate is doing change my minds now, and actually uploading the clips of the discussions with students that know how to debate
really love how charitable destiny is during these.
That’s how debates should be honestly
@@Jlavi25 Debates are supposed to have a point? that sounds pretty normatively loaded my guy ;)
Destiny understands that the kids on these campuses are not debaters or professional stans like a lot of the people he deals with online. These kids might have thought through their positions, but they might not have the vocabulary, public speaking ability or confidence like those who argue for a living. So Destiny being charitable is the best course of action to facilitate a conversation, especially when the people coming into these debates aren't immediately devolving into bad faith or fallacious arguments. Destiny does try to match the energy of his opposite and it's why when he finds someone who argues in good faith, those conversations tend to be some of the most productive; even if they aren't the most "entertaining."
@@HyenDry big words pogchamp
Really well done by the students discussing. Cred for showing up in this public scenario, it's an valuable experience. Good points was brought up! Well done guys!
that was super fun and interesting. I appreciate how civil it was, and obviously some of these students are nervous so kudos to steven for sometimes helping them make their point before giving his rebuttal! I would love move videos like this.
I used to be extremely pro choice, now I'm a little on the fence. I've spoken to a few women who've had abortions and they told me that they feel quite depressed after the procedure, they felt like they lost something important. While I still somewhat agree with pro choice, I think the abortion movement has gone too far, where the first option is abortion and not putting safe sex first. I think abortion should be a last option. Nowadays you have a lot of promiscuous men and women who don't care about safe sex, they're obsessed with sex, they just do it raw and think who cares just get an abortion after.
thats where youre wrong. It is majority of the time everyone's last option. Most people are not promiscuous, the average woman has only had three sex partners
I think it's fine to say you are against abortion but also not make it illegal. I think alcohol consumption is a net negative but it doesn't need to be illegal
A lot of pro choice people like myself agree with you that safe sex is paramount and abortion should be a last resort. It might only appear to be a primary option being pushed....because it's the thing being taken away. And doing so is literally killing vulnerable women.
@Aliya Anwald I thought average was actually 7 I guess it depends on your source. But you're right I think most people are only single digits in people they slept with. I'm married and I've been with 5.
@@aliyaanwald6149" only 3 sex partners " and they are not promiscuous? Ahhh, the foundation eroding. No wonder abortion is up for discussion.
These conversations are more "expand my mind" than "change my mind".
well changing your mind involves admitting you were wrong initially so you don't see many people do that
The first student has a mindset that terrifies me: I do not want to exist indefinitely as a vegetable because of his views on the human experience.
What an extreme fringe case.
He’s a little extreme but he’s mostly right besides the rape part. The government will make you live as a veggie
it feels like he doesn't have the awareness that suffering is a thing... ahh to be young again
😂 He was responding to a hypothetical question that Destiny presented, shhhh...calm down.
Yo these are so fun, more of this! Props to 2nd guy, he was interesting and well spoken. Not sure I could follow his logic in the end but it was a good conversation.
I never understand why nobody mentions or makes an argument of the fact that fetus can literally not survive without being sustained by the womans body, I'd like to hear that being discussed.
I'm in a bit of a dilemma. I'm pro-choice but I also want to control women's bodies. What should I do?
Focus your attention on their finances and voting rights
@James Madison key word "would've been"
@James Madison key word "would of been"
Become a pimp
Destiny should do more of these. He's exposing himself and most the people that sit down and talk are kind and calm. Way to go.
Pfft please
Yash’s argument at 20:00 is why this entire discussion sounds like telling woman what they can and can’t do.
We tell men what they can and can't do too. It's essential in having a functional society. Rule #1: don't kill other people.
That kid really said a toddler doesn’t realize it’s alive. Lmao.😂 🤦♀️
In regards to the coma argument: You most definitely know that the embryo or fetus will develop a conscious experience. Thus I think the coma argument directly counters this conscience POV, if you say that doctors will tell you that it is "worth" keeping a patient alive because they will eventually wake up. You would be in favor of keeping a 2 week old embryo alive accdoring to that logic,as it will most definitely aquire its conscience in a matter of weeks.
Also: How do you know the fetus is conscious or not if phenomenon starts between week 24 and 28?
I myself am not truly sure about how to conceptualize this entirely. But so far, I think conception is the only non-arbitrary point in time to have a coherent argument from. That still doesn't mean one should disregard all arguments from the pro-choice side.
The fundamental difference is that the patient would CONTINUE their conscious experience whereas the fetus will only BEGIN it. If it begins, it implies there is none to speak of currently.
@@oliver374
So do you want to balance the extreme uncertainty of a coma patient re-gaining consciousness versus the extreme likely beginning of consciousness of a fetus?
To be honest, I don't see a difference... why would the continuation trump the beginning... the result is the same.
"I think you might just hate toddlers"
The look down of contemplation probably thinking
"kids do think and talk a lot. Do I just hate toddlers?"
Toddlers at a few month old aren't conscious, and they're defenseless
time to test out my new karate
I think the dude saw destiny was destroyed so bad he gave destiny time to think about the ad hom.
@@christianlima987 destiny got destroyed explain
Absolutely devastated the first kid didn’t pick up on the pit bull joke
You do this structure far more effectively than Crowder ever did. It is refreshing to see mature discourse between two parties. I believe it is imperative that both sides (myself conservative leaning) TALK to each other calmly to help understand each other's reasoning and where we can potentially meet in the middle for sane policy to help move this country forward. Subscribed!
I wonder how much is the interviewer's(crowder vs destiny) influence, how much is editing (crowder leaving out boring/good debaters), and how much is the quality of the people engaging (college leftys being more chaotic than rightys).
Crowder did (does?) these in bad faith, while Destiny is doing them in good faith. That's the difference.
@@schwann145 "Bad faith" arguments involve pretending to believe something which he does not. Having a large sign saying "This is what I believe change my mind" doesn't appear to be bad faith. He doesn't hide the terms of the deal and doesn't appear to edit things deceptively, how is it in bad faith? If you mean he is rude, well I agree Crowder appears more rude to those across from him than Destiny does but that may be a function of any one of the options I pointed to.
I would argue if anything Destiny acts more out of bad faith (in general) because while he is actually a leftist, he often displays a more measured centrist tone in hopes to move conservatives closer to leftism. He explained this position when Mr. Girl challenged him for having conversations with hard right folks.
@@link10909""Bad faith""arguments involve pretending to believe something which he does not."
This is not how most people understand the term "bad faith." Bad faith is understood to mean engaging in dishonest tactics during a debate to muddy the waters or derail a certain point (using any tactic) instead of honestly engaging with the points the way your opponent presents them. Just because you have a large sign announcing your actual belief or just because you were initially honest about your bias and where you're coming from doesn't stop you from engaging in bad faith arguments during the course of a debate. It simply does not follow.
If you watch Crowder's "Change My Mind" vids and compare them to Destiny, you'd notice how Crowder is less interested in having an actual discussion to reach a better understanding and more in winning the debate no matter what (the same goes for a lot of Vaush's content, depending on subject), including using dishonest tactics like strawmanning and shifting the goal posts, ie arguing in bad faith.
A primary example is his discussion with a college student called Yousef. Iirc Yousef was challenging Crowder's position with some really good arguments, but all it took was him calling a basic doctrine of Crowder's belief system (I think it was the non-aggression principle) autistic for Crowder to latch onto that, pearl-clutch derail the entire discussion instead of letting Yousef make his point.
@@ihsahnakerfeldt9280 the way you described that Yousef argument makes Yousef sound like the one acting in bad faith and Crowder just responding in kind.
Yash was fire, even though he was so nervous.
I'm glad Destiny says "I feel like" before he says what he thinks life is because it is literally what he feels like it is and not what it actually is. The students debating him messed up when they didn't challenge him on that point.
there is no “actually is” on moral debates. it’s all perspective.
@@millipedie You are absolutely right, in a moral debate basically everything can be contended, I was just saying they would have had really strong argument against him if they said "hey wait you can't just make up when life starts 🤔 look at basic biology and the fact that doctors, scientists, and many people on the pro-choice side also say that life starts at conception."
@@mlindquist8942 life starts at conception but that’s not really the point. a lot of things are living that we destroy. the argument is when does it become worth protecting. if a fetus is worthy of human rights and protections at the moment of conception, should a woman who has a miscarriage be charged with reckless homicide?
@@millipedie first of all thank you for responding, I really like when people respond to my comments without cussing me out or calling me an idiot 😊 I will try to answer all three points in a way that makes sense
#1 we both know life starts at conception, it is very hard to argue that it doesn't, it was frustrating to see the students not contending Destiny on that point and just give in to what he says he thinks life is, it's like they lost the argument before it started.
#2 we do destroy a lot of living things (animal farms, plants, fighting wars) but all of those things if done ethically are all justifiable, obviously some killing (like defending yourself or hunting) is not an evil thing and some killing (like first degree murder) is an evil thing, now the sad thing is that people used the same kind of argument to defend slavery by saying that Black people are like cattle so we should be able to own them, that's why we need to uphold rights for all humans no matter their age, color, intelligence or anything else.
#3 talking about the potential problems with the laws surrounding unborn humans is a moot point because if fetuses are human beings (which of course they are) then they should be protected like anyone else no matter how difficult it is, right? I certainly don't think we should base our laws on protecting lives off of how difficult it would be to protect certain groups of people.
@@mlindquist8942 im not talking about potential problems when i am asking that. its not to say “well wouldn’t this be tricky!” it is moreso a direct question to you. if a woman has a miscarriage should she be criminally charged with the death of a human being, in your opinion?
The last guy lost me.
But that Yash kid was tight. He was ultra nervous, knees weak arms heavy eminem type beat, but when he got more into the convo, man's was actually really solid. Good points, clear engagement, solid counter arguments... Shake off that mom's spaghetti fam, you're good.
I don't think the counter arguments were solid, but he was a solid arguer and person
Lmao, tha Eminem description of him 😄
I feel like he needed that confidence boost.
Unfortunately, he only had one shot, one opportunity.
this is so much better content than talking with people that cant develop an original thought and apply critical thinking to topics or towards themselves like sneako or others that u have "debated" with.
Toddler's experiences like walking, speaking, fundamentals of being human. Those years are our most formative years.
That's true. But most our growth is in the womb. Our characteristics are mostly formed in the womb.
@@gyn6131 in regards to understanding to consciousness and learning?
@@dennyduane consciousness and learning are just stages of developed in one's life. They are not defining factors of the definition of life.
The big bang was the beginning of the universe. Not the first star, or the first planet, or the first bacteria, or the first person. It was the big bang. That was what began it all. Same goes with human life, its the fertilization that begins it all.
@@dennyduane technically yes. Because if something does not develop right in the womb, it can impair consciousness and the ability to learn later.
A woman must choose the best man to create the best genetics with. Then she must treat her body like a temple to maximize the potential of the baby.
She must have positive emotions as well. The baby is connected to her and feeds off that energy.
The mother is also contributing more to that development during pregnancy, than the sperm has. Babies only take a fraction of characteristics from the father. Nearly 85% comes from the mother and that is because its spending 9 months inside of her.
@@gyn6131 Men with poor genetics should have vasectomies as soon as they're capable of mating
This is my first time watching this channel, and I gotta say Destiny is perhaps one of the most articulate and intelligent pro-choice individuals I have ever seen. I guess my only criticism on the arguments made in this video is no one actually makes the distinction between "potential life" and "eventual life" (ie. the probability of life happening in each case should be a significant determining factor on the morality of abortion). Other than that, kudos to Destiny. An absolutely joy to watch.
Crazy how civil these conversations were.
Crazy right? Clownder could never.
Thanks for the content, August, hope you're doing well
I am really enjoying these exchanges. Keep it up dude. It's amazing how good intentioned and good faithed you can be when exchanging with these inexperienced dudes. You look great and benevolent. Not at all smug or condecending. Really polished, honest and respectful. Good.
"The broadest scientific definition might be that life is what enables plants and animals to consume food, derive energy from it, grow, adapt themselves to their surroundings, and reproduce." - Dr. Beverly Crusher (STNG) In the context of the episode "cells".
I'm pro-life in the sense that I can't say when life begins, so I don't want to risk killing a life at all. I haven't heard a strong enough argument for when life starts, so I don't choose to risk it. The only thing I'm lenient on is like birth control, health risks or rape, or maybe first week abortion.
At least you acknowledge it's the risk and that's it. Regardless not sure why you justify forcing something on someone who is an alive human as opposed to one that is not proven to have one especially with the worse outcomes of aborted babies being born in foster care.
your saying regurgitating shit if yall dont want to risk having a child DONT HAVE SEX HOW ABOUT THAT women need to control themselves
Well your position it starts a few days after conception, it not conception. Pretty clear, you're not unclear on that. You just can't explain it well. Just where you personally feel the line should be drawn. Which yeah, is garden variety moderate pro-life.
your life started when you came into existence. when this happened is obvious
@@DistantKingdom Not really as one can not determine scientifically when this happens during fetus development as not enough current evidence. We can only determine when it definitely can not be given brain not created.
I have a very similar position as Destiny, but he explains it so much better than I could. I'm gonna have to remember these arguments.
Most of his arguments can be be debunked pretty easily, many philosophers have written rebuttals to the position destiny holds
@@barbarioushardwell5616 Do you have any suggested reading then? I'd love to hear those arguments.
These people lose because they dont realise destiny is a girls name
Whoever you agree with more, we can all agree, this is a proper debate, respect on either side for the others opinion and the value of public discourse, love to see it!
Keep em coming content queen
Queen*
@@speedfastman my sincerest apologies
I'll always inherently be on the side for an individuals right to choose. I still think a fetus is a life, as much as any single-celled organism and heart beat. Do I care all that much? Not really
That’s sorta how I feel about this as well.
Same. Bodily autonomy trumps all in my opinion. I don’t think this can be argued against honestly
It's baffling to me how difficult it is with most of these people to engage with the idea of what conscious experience. They seem to have a really difficult time understanding what it means to experience being alive. It felt like half of the discussion with each person was Destiny trying to explain what a conscious experience is.
I agree
Did you watch the video. What is experiencing being alive? How dont developing cells experience being alive, cells are aware of their environment.
@@christianlima987 OP brought up an interesting sticking point which is probably just a way of looking at things that few consider about a fetus since it is isolated and mute and experiences of consciousness are strictly qualitative from current science as far as I'm aware. But that is a consciousness born of a collection of groups of cells throughout the body, not a single cell. A single cell or even a few stages along in development is not "aware" in any sense, it strictly responds to its environment and divides into other cells based on its genetic information like computer instructions, or a math formula. We do not place the weight we do on human life because of any awareness human fetuses have that other mammals do not.
Because Destiny's definition was vague and arbitrary, like most irrelevant arguments of consciousness
@@MrGgabber In what way? Did you even listen to his reasoning? (The Emergence of Human Consciousness: From Fetal to Neonatal Life. Hugo Lager-
crantz and Jean-Pierre changeux in Pediatric Research, Vol. 65, no. 3, pages 255-260;
march 2009)
This is why I like Destiny better than people like Charlie Kirk and Ben Shapiro. Those two are looked at as true conservative media when there is 100% better examples. This guy, unlike the two I mentioned, does not try to bait the people he's talking to, isn't rude, and isn't trying to be there to "win" anything by putting people down. Also does not use strawman arguments like those two constantly do.
Conservatives online have been radicalized. They are starting to become more far right
First guy trips up when stating that the early live of a toddler/child isn't important. Just because one can't remember these moments consciously they are some of the most formative moments of one's life. The emotions and experiences a child has can define the rest of their lives and the possible trauma they have to deal with upon years if the early stages of their live was traumatic. They'll never remember it, but it will stick with them forever.
Yep, if anything I learnt that pro-lifers have some fucked up views about toddlers.
@@Koooles In his defense he doesn't speak of all of them, I think it was more of an ignorant conclusion to make.
I feel like he was being misunderstood. I don't think he meant that it wasn't important. It seemed like he meant that it wasn't as sophisticated and developed. It's ghoulish in my opinion for Destiny to imply that a fetus lacks value simply because it hasn't been afforded a chance to develop yet.
If you end the development of a fetus or a the development of a toddler none of the future consequences would really matter.
Student two is brilliant. I don’t have a strong opinion in favor of him or destiny but the way he presented his arguments were very well thought out especially considering how nervous he was to begin with.
"I don't believe things are SUPPOSED to happen" - So, you don't believe in Destiny?
I appreciate that Destiny stays respectful. There's a few other youtubers that do this on campuses, and they are just personally destroying students, calling them dumb, be respectless. Gets no one nowhere.
I love yash man, hes very logical and firm in his views, and just seems like a nice dude overall.
i would love to see a crowder vs destiny debate
These students are better at articulating there positions, then online political streamers.
I feel the online political streamers try to use speed talking without facts or little facts to run past the conversation while others are observing what is being said and responding.
Pro-lifer here. There were some really good conversations in this video and strong arguments presented on both sides, which is great to see. I would like to add my two cents in a couple of places, though, mostly pertaining to the 2nd conversation with Yash.
Overall, it seems to me like Destiny's position largely hinges on the usage of the word "potential." As he correctly points out, "potential" can mean a lot of things and be applied in a lot of ways. However, the fundamental flaw with this argument is that "potential" is not the right way to classify/describe a fetus. A fetus is not a "potential" life, it is an *actively developing* life. This might seem like semantics, but I'll provide 2 specific arguments in which it matters a lot:
1) The building analogy where Destiny describes having all the materials and schematics as a "potential" building. The key problem with this analogy is that the building still requires deliberate action in order to be completed. By contrast, the fetus is already actively developing, and barring some sort of medical complication, will only fail to reach completion if there is *deliberate action taken AGAINST it happening*. This, to me, is an incredibly important distinction when discussing morality
2) The discussion about coma patients with a 0.1% chance of living. Similar to above, this is also not an apples to apples comparison. With a fetus, we know that there is an incredibly high chance, barring medical complications, that it will reach consciousness within 24 weeks. The correct comparison here would be "What if we had coma patients with a 98% chance to regain consciousness within 24 weeks." Once again, this changes the discussion quite a bit, in my opinion.
I think this is what Yash was trying to get around to at the end of his discussion, but just couldn't quite get there. Overall, this was a fantastic video. Thanks for sharing!
Will ask simple question: Why does pregnant women should have less rights than dead human body?
@@Zripas If this is an honest question and not just an argument in bad faith, you're going to have to clearly describe, in exact terms, how you think pregnant women have "less rights than a dead human body."
Also, I recommend making sure you actually understand the points Yash makes at around 18:50 - 19:45 and 20:39 - 21:01 before writing that up.
@@kingcars
Legally you have no right to do anything with dead body against its previous "owners" or relatives if owner dint expressed any will about it. Yet when it comes to pregnant women you think that you should be able to decide for her what she should do with her body. So in this case pregnant women have less rights than dead body. Its not in bad faith, its pointing out obvious issue with pro lifers arguments here... Its not up to YOU to decide what women should do with her body.
If you want to argue otherwise then by this same logic we should be able to take your blood by force against your will to save someone's life. Or take one of your kidneys... Right? After all, it will be saving potential life, so lets use that same rule across everything and not just make special rule for pregnant women... Right?
@@Zripas Again, I recommend watching and actually understanding what's being said in the clips I timestamped in my previous response. Yash perfectly explained the pro life position on this topic in the two clips I linked. The woman isn't being forced to do anything. She made her choice when she decided to parttake in an activity that runs a good chance of resulting in pregnancy. This is also why your attempted analogy is a swing and a miss, not to mention your continued use of the phrase "potential life" when my whole original post explained why that's not a correct classification.
A more proper analogy would be if I were to go base jumping, and even with all the best equipment, there was a failure and I broke my legs. I can't then turn around and say "well I didn't consent to having my legs broken." I knew the risks going into it, therefore I must be prepared for any of the potential outcomes.
@@kingcars
Your clips are silly... I can debunk it really easily. When you decide to drive a car you have a chance to get into accident and be shredded into pieces, does that mean that you give consent to be shredded into pieces when you sit into car?
Consent for sex isn't consent for pregnancy and consent for pregnancy isn't consent to remain pregnant.
And just to education people here even more. Abortion is termination of pregnancy, not a killing of fetus as requirement. You can still have abortion at 8 months and get viable fetus/child afterwards, which sometimes is required to save BOTH lives.
Will ask you analogous question which should hopefully make it clear for you: Imagine situation where you wake up and you find yourself being attacked to another human with tubes and all, you never agreed to it, but if you disconnect that person will die. Now, question of the century: Do you have right to disconnect?
The soul shit was easily the worst argument I have heard for when life begins. Destiny was charitable to a fault there.
Life begins at conception, biology is pretty universal with this concept. Destiny tried to argue from vague standards of "consciousness". He didn't even argue if it was alive or not, because it clearly is. Yes, arguing about a soul is arguing from a religious standpoint, and is less effective