I actually recognize the drawing cut! My grandfather is from Arabia and he spend a considerable time training with us kids! We used Shamshirs (which are originally swords from Persia). Grandfather put a pole up in the middle of his garden and told us to perform certain cuts from all angles as well as ramming the pommel into the pole. I did read that the Europeans used similar methods in the medieval period to train their kids, they too put poles up (or used trees) to perform basic cuts and movements! But here’s something which always surprised me: my grandfather was hostile against special footwork and rejected it completely. I recall very vividly how he told us that “specialized footwork is garbage. It’s no good. You walk the way how you would normally walk!” I’m curious why he was so opposed to fencing footwork. It’s like he saw it as a danger.
I can't say for absolute certainty but I'd be willing to guess he'd be against fancy footwork as it's just as much a danger as it is an aid. Fancy footwork can certainly allow you to out-maneuver an opponent but it's also very fine motor movement and can be easy to mess up, *especially* when you're in the middle of battle. Trying to manage both your sword movement, shield positioning and on top of that using special footwork can be mentally taxing and wind up with you potentially leaving openings you normally wouldn't. By comparison moving and walking as you always do is pure instinct and not taxing at all to do without thinking. A good example is sea-farers and what we call sea legs. To sailors the unique movement of walking on a ship that's rocking and swaying is purely natural and becomes their normal way of moving, but this resulted in them being more than a little tipsy when on land and they'd have to concentrate to walk normally. Similarly someone who's never been on a ship would struggle to walk straight while on one while walking on land is natural. The same applies to fighting footwork, unless you're constantly doing it all the time you're not gonna be able to do it without concentrating on it and in battle it's better to stick to efficient simplicity than to potentially loose focus and die
@@corvuscolbrand You explained it very well. Another reason is that , it is predictable.Special moves with a certain systematic are more easily predicted by the opponent. It can also cause you to not be able to use time correctly. Because large muscle groups are not as fast as hand movements, no matter how quickly you move them and cause you to expend more energy which is undesirable in a long struggle.
From someone who attempted to spar with friends with training swords except we started in winter with half a foot of snow: Maybe because fancy footwork straight up doesn't work without the correct terrain? Certainly, I found myself wanting to do X/Y/Z only to just... not be able to do that because the half a foot of snow also had ice beneath :p
I think clothing also had something to do with it. layered cloth can be very effective against cuts but the draw will more effectively go through layers.
I agree. The clothing of those areas and times tended to be loose layers of cloth. In many of the upper classes it would be layers of silk, which would require a very sharp sword and good technique to damage.
Hotter climate usually means less armor or more exposed body parts, because you would cook in a full plate with mail and gambison inside, if there are no "ventilation" (openings). Even the heaviest oriental armors have more openings than the european full plate, but you need to get close to reach these openings with a cutting weapon. Also - and that comes from my fencing experience - you can get very close very fast in a sabre fight, which is not the case with a rapier, sword or any thrusting or mixed weapon. If both opponents attack and counter attack simultaneously, they can headbutt each other by accident. Sabre fencing requires to know how to cut in close combat, if both have sabre-like weapons.
Am a tree surgeon, was working in the heat of the sun for like 7 hrs today, wear cloth armour which is basically a lighter version of a gambeson only on my legs and feet. Nearly died of heatstroke, this is in England, Northern Europe. Fuck medieval warfare in Africa or the Middle east that must have been gnarly
Actually if you made your sword not that curved, you can use it for stabbing, or slashing out. Turks made their swords like that. And they’d use it for the future as well. And that my frends, has nothing to do with turkish style type of swords. All the curved sword isn’t kilij y’know? And if you got no ‘lots of steel, (which was eurasian steps like that) you should do the three action with one sword, using others swords for doing (i mean cutting, stabbing) one by one is a good strategy as well. But y’know, they had only larch trees, useless lands, and horses back the time.
The average temperature in Bagram, northern Afganistan, is extremely comparable to that of New York city, which is pretty cold. Rome, Istanbul and Tunis, Tunisia are comparable to Baltimore, where I'm from, in the central east coast of the US. Salonica is slightly hotter. Jerusalem and Antioch are substantially hotter. Bagdad, where the some of the first caliphs lived, is extremely hot. England, Germany, and France, by comparison, mostly have cooler summers and warmer winters than every single one of these places. All of this is to say that, while it may be broadly true that some areas of northwestern Europe are cooler in the summer than some of the places Mat claimed these types of curved swords were particularly popular, it's clearly not the case that there is some sort of essential quality about the relationship between temperature and the usage of curved swords. If Mat's claim that these swords were very popular across the whole area from Northern Africa to India is true, then clearly it has to do with a lot more than the weather, since the weather across this massive area which spans nearly a quarter of the circumference of the earth is extremely varied. Personally, I'm unconvinced that it's reasonable to make a statement that seems to suggest that this area was relatively monolithic in terms of the types of swords which were used in it.
Max Bachvaroff İ read it with pleasure but, use some paragraph please, i’m not as good as you are at the language ;). So, northern mediterranean clime’s (also knowing soutern europe) temperature not that hot. And it does not have the desert, equator radiation, has a lot of green. Yet, yes. But, turk’s purpose with curved sword has nothing with clime at the first time. They’d to fight every piese of iron. They needed a thing for multiple utilize. And, who met with turks, (mongolians, russians, chines, arabian) made their sword like that. Being a hard situation makes you hard as well, and smart. İ dunno, can’t do a unbiased comment. İf you wanna cut good, much curved much good. İf you wanna thrust well, narrow point better. For split it out, need a axe. But, you’re not that rich, you should have give up been a fastidious. For arming part, sabers, especially turk’s one is the best. İ’m gone give you an example; www.google.com.tr/amp/s/www.pinterest.com/amp/pin/513058582527247093/ İf you can open it ‘course. You know, pinterest ;).
In South Asian countries like India, thailand, Vietnam etc, because these countries have hot and humid climate , people didn't use full body armour. They used armour only on their chest and back. They didn't use gloves or other types of stuffs.
I remember hearing from a British army officer that he remembered British soldiers on crowd control duty (in Lebanon in WW2 IIRC) being surprised by older Arabs jumping out from the crowd to very close range, much closer than soldiers could use their bayonets, and delivering a series of wicked cuts that weren't deep but bled profusely before disappearing back into the mob. If the sword was the sidearm to a rifle or lance then this tactic and the knee on the tree exercise makes sense, it is about minimising the reach disadvantage their sidearms have against opponents' main weapons.
I think your mention of those draw cuts using some of the same muscles used in archery is an interesting point. As I understand it, mounted archery was one of the main ways Turkish/Persian/Middle Eastern/North African cavalry tended to fight. So I can see that contributing to their choice of sidearm; something that uses movements and muscles that the more important aspect of your training would promote seems like it would be appealing. I don't think this would be the main reason, but I can see it being a contributing factor.
Atlı okçular tarihte ilk Türklerede birde korelilerde görülmüştür. O dönem koreliler hun Türklerile iletişimde olduğu için Türk ok yapımını ve at üstünde kullanmayı öğrendiler. korelilerin komşuları olan japonya, çin...oklarına baktığınızda kore oklarının Türk oklarına benzediğini anlayacaksınız. Çünkü Türk okları atın kafasına ve vücuduna çarpmasın diye küçük yapılıyordu.
Having been a practitioner myself, one of the theory is the style of fighting or martial art of the weapons. In India , the curve sword is a standard weapon chose during the indo-persion period. The weilding or style of fighting is effective if using a curve sword compared to a straight swords. Different type of sword- different fighting styles. We know during war each battalion is setup via rows . During frontal assault or dog fight of two opposite side, Curved sword is used at the first or second row of the battalion during charge. Main goal is to go through the line of defense like a moving body of a snake - not to kill the opponent but to break the posture of the enemy, bait the enemy or even disorientate the enemy , this is to setup the kill blow coming from the next line or row of assault. At times the next row may do the same hitting important areas of the body since no one could afford spending time going through a person armor while charging. While disoriented with this blows, the fatal blow will come unexpected, looking at the indo persian armor. Stab of Katar to the face and neck. If the soldier has fallen from the charge - the opponent has time to lift up the chain armor and hit the killer blow.
@@marveen6372 sharpness is not something that is standard individual blades will have varying degree of sharpness, but if we talk about blade geometry that help in cutting and slicing, then these swords are far superior for those purposes compared to a katana.
I think a point that is often brought up is that the draw cut is (supposedly) a very good way of getting through textiles, in particular ones that are resilient to other forms of penetration; such as silk. Personally I am rather conflicted about whether that on its own is good motivation for a draw cut, as I can't possibly imagine that many people wearing silk. However, should the Middle East and Asian cultures that were using the draw cut have access to other more common textiles that are indeed relatively more protective against a normal cut and/or thrusting, it could be motivation. EDIT: I also just realized that the Chinese, the largest producers (and wearers, arguably) of silk aren't particularly known for their curved weaponry. They of course have some swords that have somewhat curved tips, but these are more like falchion type weapons in their use. I would presume they would be the first to consider blade designs specialised for dealing with these kind of textiles.
Seems to me those long draw cuts are also a way to position the tip to take advantage of any potential gaps in the armor; get in close and find that opening in the arm pit or under the chin....
To me, it seems like good practice for very close combat where situations dont allow standoff distances available in say duels. whether it be the front lines of a formation in battle or crowded streets. in conjunction against light armour or non, typical amongst most in central Asia and India, and it appears to be flexible enough that the general direction my be obvious, the specific angle can be quite unpredictable (more so being so close).
Really interesting how it uses the blade so close to the body Reminds me of that video you made a while ago with the tulwar-like sword where you swung it over your head around your back and into a slashing cut.
Great Video Matt! I agree with you that the drawing motion cut was popular for two key reasons: 1) Design of the blade - a draw cut maximizes the surface area of the blade that comes in contact with the target. Especially true of a curved blade which naturally wants to "slide off" the target. The hilt shape also makes it more ergonomic to "pull" the blade through the cut. 2) Clothing - people in these areas typically wore layers of light, loose clothing due to the climate which a blade could get wrapped up in so emphasizing the slicing motion of the blade is necessary to get through the fabric.
Great info on these special swords. I always love when you show how particular swords are and were used. Thanks for the vid and all your time and effort placed into all of these.
A hypothesis: if used with a shield perhaps the exercise is preformed with the left knee against the tree, as that produces a classic left foot forward stance, most all my training and style stems from footwork, I was trained as a boxer for 17+ years and as a newbie to the sword world I definitely favor styles that mimic boxing stance as in sword and shield/ buckler, just things I think about between exercises and watching your videos, Matt! Also I noticed immediately upon doing this exercise is is very relaxing and reliving to any tight hamstrings or lower back, a excellent way to start the day, and to wake up the spine be a sword fighter or not!
My god, that was hypnotic. I think it was a lot of things. It looks impressive (not that that's a major concideration, but it's A concideration, minor though it is), it's a sword designed for slicing, not chopping, so they practiced slicing. They wanted their people to slice really well, so they drilled it and gave them swords that did that one thing really well. And because they were doing that one thing really well, they produced swords that did that one thing really well. That was rambling, I admit that.
apologies for commenting having only viewed this just now. I use a tulwar. the main reason for the style of attack and practice for the tulwar in particular and any sword that has the disc pommel on the hilt is the disc limits wrist movements and forces you to use more elbow and shoulder to wield it in striking and cutting. thanks for the video!
I think you are exactly right in your read on the way and reasons for the practice techniques! I, incidentally, think the shamshir is the most beautiful sword ever designed! And the mameluke hilt is very ergonomically designed as well. All in all, a beautiful sword combination!!!!
This drill is also EXTREMELY common in various Filipino martial arts systems (especially inPekiti Tersia in my limited experience). It's usually done without "breaking the wrist" (having it bend).
Cool to see you testing out the exercise. I also believe it stems from both the style of clothes worn (multi layered cloth that needs to be sliced through, not hacked at) and their preference for getting up close to the enemy.
The drawing cut was popilar because curved swords have more metal in a shorter length. If u draw cut it can inflict deep wounds! That will cause death in the battlefield. U can't hack because it won't be effective with the type of armour used in those days. U can defeat a leather armour more effectively with a draw cut. Plus a draw cut is more accurate than a hack, so to defeat the Indian armours accuracy was needed. So they came up with these techniques. Plus tight formations was also a reaaon.
Great to see you at the new garden Matt! It is interesting that when we think of fencing (especially Sabre systems and the like) reach is often such a consideration, and then you have these techniques and context where that really takes a back seat. But again I fear we see a one handed sword and forget to analyze it in its original environment and you bringing up the fact that it was originally used with shields is probably the most important take away. The gladius had “short range” but it didn’t matter if it was coming from behind the press of of scutum wall.
the audio is even good outside. I'd say from a viewers perspective, just stick with your integrated mic for now. At least for these types of videos. It might be different if you're at the auction house, or the Wallace collection and whatnot.
Purely conjecture, but could the prevalence of draw cuts have to do with the issue of swords getting caught in opponents? Eliminating the thrust with the curve of the blade, and focusing on shallower, longer cuts could be (in part) to ensure one doesn't lose one's sword in a fight. Not that it was a huge consideration in Western European designs, but perhaps differences in available resources at the time made it higher priority in other regions of the world.
That is a great exercise for curved swords . thank you. I will be adding that one. It looks great for close combat and drawing the length of the blade it will,as you said produce long wounds and with a razor sharp blade I believe quite deep as the pressure from the draw and shape of the blade should cause it to bite flesh hard.
I very briefly studied Tai Chi Dao and that's the way we were taught to execute cuts. It was explained to me with the following reasons: 1) let the spine rotation do the cut, not your sword-arm. If you extend your arm to execute a slash you'd tire quickly. Also, if you extend the arm you'd be flexing your wrist and opening up your guard 2) The sharpest part of the blade was near the hilt, the weight is instead nearer the tip. Cuts would then slash open the flesh with the sharpest part of the blade, and the weight coming in after the cut would make the wounds worse. 3)Such a diagonal cut was also meant to "slide" between ribs in order to avoid bouncing off the ribcage. have of way of knowing if any of 2 or 3 is true, but 1 is in my very limited experience.
I believe the reason for this slashing/cutting technique is the steel. Wootz steel has a remarkable property in that it cuts extremely well when drawn. Wootz steel does not need an edge to cut. The steel contains small carbide clusters imbedded in a steel matrix which also give wootz steel it's beautiful pattern. These carbide clusters are like diamonds in a saw. When moved back and forth, the carbide particles in the blade grind themselves into the the material being cut. Wootz does not have to hardened to make use of this property, but hardening improves the durability of the cutting edge.
That method seems conducive to learning to use the sword at extremely close range. Matt, a well-practiced swordsman, struggles a little bit being so close. I recall an account he mentioned a while back of a 19th century man who attacked a knot of British colonial soldiers with a sword similar to this one, and the description suggested that he did terrible harm in the formation, too close for rifles and bayonets to be brought to bear - this technique seems perfect for that scenario, or any other where there's a press of bodies or other tight quarters. Full extension strikes are relatively easy, effective striking with a weapon at dirty boxing range is more difficult. A teacher I had in FMA once explained to me that if a student could do a particular drill (a sinawali, in this case, so practicing a string of attacks without getting my arms or weapons tangled) keeping the sticks close to my body, I would find it relatively easy to make those strikes with arms extended.
Trees thoughts: "Oh hey! Look! New people moving in! Well they seem like nice people, this should be fun!" Sees Matt unpacking some antique swords. "Oh neat! The bald one has a bunch of neat old stuff! That's interesting." Matt starts walking toward tree with camera and sword in hand. "A camera? Is he like a famous UA-camr or something? Wait, hes walking this way. Am I going to be famous?!?!?" Matt turns on camera and starts talking while showing off sword. "HI MOM! LOOK! I'M ON UA-cam! Have you seen those Eastons? They have curved swords, CURVED SWORDS! Harharhar." Matt turns around and puts knee on tree while holding sword to the side. "Whoa, wait! What are you doing? It was just a joke man. Ya know, a meme? Surly a fine gentlemen like yourself can appreciate a good meme." Matt starts practicing cuts in front of tree. "Hey man, calm down! I know its an old worn out meme but I just couldn't pass up the opportunity ya know? PLEASE DON'T HURT ME!" Matt taps tree with sword. "WHOA, HEY LOOK I'M SORRY OK! WAS IT THE BALD COMMENT EARLIER?! I DIDN'T MEAN IT THAT WAY I SWEAR! BALD IS BEAUTIFUL, RIGHT?!?! *starts sobbing* PLEEEEEASE DON'T HURT ME!!!" Matt stops and finishes the video and walks away "Ohgodohgodohgod..... The new people are freakin psychos... What am I gonna do?..."
very interesting insight that it also gets you to use your back muscles, like an archer. and I really appreciated 1:38 I think it likely had to do with the armor, they were facing more gambeson-like than chainmail? maybe that had to do with the environment and available materials, its too hot to fight in plate, and you have strong cloth/silk material, so use that instead? 2:08 I disagree and think the intent was to produce Deeper wounds, through the armor, than a chopping motion would produce. it may also produce longer wounds with opportunity, but I do not think that was its primary purpose. I am reminded now, however, of Fairbairns' "other" fighting knife, the 'Smatchet' which was intended to make long (but also deep) drawing cuts on the arms intended to bleed an enemy, among other things.
Don't know why they would use the drawing cut like that, but watching you do that exercise puts the extreme curve of that blade into "perspective". When you cut like that, that curve looks like it is exactly right. The question then becomes, did they cut like that because of the design of the blade, or is the design of the blade meant to optimize that cut. I suspect a good cut of the type you are demonstrating would turn your opponent into a squirting pile of stinking red goo in pretty short order.
I think it is to do with clothing. I did some tests personally and found drawing cuts did better on certain materials. And would of caused more damage in battle facing that situation. As a general sword blow glances off and causes less damage in the same situation.
clothing and soft armor can bunch up when struck and that can cause a blade to fail to penetrate deep enough to wound (more material presses against more of the surface of the blade). A drawing cut, stretches the material and reduces the surface area in contact with the blade, making for a more reliable degree of penetration.
Yes it does, correct. When your arms are closer to your center of gravity they are much more grounded and “stronger”. Parrying with arms straight out vs tucked in and close is a world of difference. Then of course there are the fast brutal slashed that would follow from that position very easily as shown.
When using curved practice swords, I noticed that after many sparring rounds that simply using drawing slashes along with a stance step switch, I could fight all day and did not tire. That is my opinion, however. It just seemed like I never ran out of gas and only got faster as the sessions went on using drawing slashes vs. stabs and hacking strikes.
Slightly outside the box thought, perhaps wanting to enter grappling range could have something to do with it, sort of like full harness combat favoring grappling with daggers over extended arm sword swings
Even for infantry, I imagine not getting stuck matters? Could there be a case made that medieval fighters/soldiers cared somewhat less about getting stuck b/c 1- armor (tougher/rarer to get stuck in the first place) and 2- close quarter armored fighting tends to devolve into wrestling and stabbing. So lightly armored troops may have had more reasons to worry about the possibility of getting stuck?
You're correct, especially with cutting weaponry like sabres. Sabre fencing tends to end in close quarters most of the time; that's in Its nature (cutting only moves vs thrusting moves that keeps more distance). Read my post about sabre fencing. Also, ATHLETICS. While fencing with rapiers, It was mostly my forearm and biceps that hurt. While sabre fencing, It was my shoulder and triceps. So, this exercise is not just for fencing, It's muscle training for sabre fighting. Remember that there are no proper gym clubs in medieval times. Last reason: for riders, you don't want to slash your own horse while fighting, so you better train at NOT hitting that big thing right in front of you, aka your valiant mount's head.
I’ve seen Gatka practitioners demonstrate tulwar and dhal techniques. I suspect the use of the rapid drawing cuts serves both an offensive and defensive purpose. The rapid draw cuts, combined with the constantly-moving footwork, mean the swordsman is never a static target. Of course, I could be totally wrong and somebody with direct experience with Gatka feel free to correct me.
about training close to the tree, I think it was done to learn how to make proper cuts when the enemy is in grappling range. because at extremely close range, it becomes very hard to cut properly, and if you train how to do proper cuts inside your knee distance, you'll be able to deliver better blows in grappling range.
Looks like a good method for fighting in a close press against lightly armoured opponents. Lots of mobility. No need for a big swing of the weapon. Well placed draw cuts could open up major arteries close to the surface of the skin or slice open large muscle groups. Time for a cutting test & a backyard/garden BBQ.
Could it be that it’s meant for slicing through gambleson/multiple layers of clothes? A shamshir is a very light weapon and may not perform well with a simple strike against thick padding. However a slice with this kind of blade curvature can torn fiber/tissue open, hence deeper the cut. We all know central & west Asian soldiers like to carry axes, maces etc. for armored enemies. I’d say the saber is mainly for unarmored or lightly armored targets.
For more elaborate information on some styles of middle eastern swordsmanship, I guess Dr. Khorasani (@Razmafzar) is a good source. Maybe he has an idea about this specific kind of exercise. My speculation would be that quick drawing motions close to the body like this train you for defensive coverage as this type of blade seems to be protecting you from a lot of angles while it is kept close, though still being dangerous. As far as I know, people using this weapon don't fight with binding techniques. Or maybe something similar to moulinets?
Sword not overly conducive to the thrust. Lots of clothing worn, which resists cuts fairly well. Best target is face. Also good at very close quarters, particularly in a non-warfighting situation, i.e. a civilian defensive use of the sword, to do a draw cut as the sword is drawn from the scabbard. They are the reasons I would practice it anyway, in that context.
Hello Matt. You mentioned, that the muscles used to perform draw cut are the same muscles used in archery. Archery was popular in the Middle East, Turkey, Iran. Those warriors already had strong back muscles which naturally inclined them to use draw cuts. So maybe it is not cavalry, but archery led to the development of the draw cut technique?
Great video, Matt. I'm just curious if you think that the drawing type of cut could reduce the transition time between cuts. With a slash it seems that you'd need more time to the recover the sword back into a striking position, whereas these drawing cuts seem to put you right back in position to slash again (based solely on your demonstration). Is it a possibility? Again, thanks for all the great content.
@NickVerbee. I would agree with your observation. In Escrima/Arnis, that is one of the big benefits to perform slashes in this way, you keep the blade and your weapon arm 'live' meaning it's dynamic, always moving and always threatening with minimum recovery time, if any.
In my personal opinion the drawing cut could be to slice through the loose and layered clothing. The slicing motion is I think less likely to snag in the clothing and has more potential to get through. Also as it is less demanding of the construction of the sword, the sword can be made less sturdy.
What I love about extremely curved blades (Compared with Katana, Kinjahls, much less Yataghan) is that they naturally follow through the draw-cut, if your point of impact is right, and the point of impact it pretty easy to see, by the point where the curvature of the blade goes past the back-edge. It just takes practice, but not as much as straighter curves, like hangars, and messers, to say nothing of broadswords, and dussaks. Edge Alignment is SOMEHAT less crucial, because if you're a little off, it pulls the edge into alignment. (You lose cutting efficiency, though. That's done by Drag, and the less drag you have, the deeper, and easier the cut.) Of course, the trade-off is it also makes thrusting proportionately more difficult, and less effective. So, you lose some Reach a well. (In blades of equivalent edge-length.)
yes AoE sword for cavalry. they use lances too. all depends on the types of charge. cavalry sabre was very famous. also, it's more maneuverable in confined space compare to straight long sword. also the distribution of tension along the sword goes easier on curved sword over straight sword in cutting. As it minimizes the point of contact when it clashes against anything, due to it's curved shape. earlier European swords were mainly used for thrusting rather than hacking. I came by a very thin looking curved sword in asia, at a glance it looks like you could break it with a swing, saw it cut through a royal palm tree trunk with a single cut. i was super impressed.
That particular exercise you demonstrate would seem to be an effective way to train/condition for fighting from horseback as getting the muscle memory to not hit that immediately in front of you would greatly extend the life of your mount. And the knee being raised might help to condition the upper body to strike similar to being on horseback; you would not have a particularly solid stance and need to work the core muscles to be able to coordinate the strikes. I am curious if they set up targets which they would strike on either side. One thought: desert people wear a lot of layers of loose fitting clothing. It may be that slicing with a long arch is a way to ensure you'll actually hit the body. As I understand it a good fighter would use that type of clothing to effectively conceal and protect their body; a stab could easily miss and get the blade tangled, maybe just for an instant, in the clothing and be enough give the opponent time to react.
The curvature of the blade keeps the blade in contact all the way through the cut drawing like that as you get further through the draw your hand retracts as the main curve of the blade pivots.
If I had to hazard a guess, I would say it's a combination of getting around the shields, how to deal with the armor and the construction of the blade.
Matt, upon seeing you exercise I am sure that style was developed because of the environments on the continent; forests, jungle, the city structure as well as the interiors of the buildings.
In my experience, in Asian martial art we believe that draw cut cover the body more and easy to use in close quarter combat. Another thing may the difference in muscle and physicality, for me as least. I feel it is easier for to generate power when cut that way using the back and shoulder muscle. It is similar to how I feel is easier to use the thumb draw than using the 2 finger European draw in archery.
An interesting point (pun notsomuch intended) is that these cuts required very little space to do effectively, at least in the way that you're doing them. This also means though that they would not have that much reach, which I would think would give an advantage to my opponent with a thrusting weapon of comparable length.
Just a hypothesis: Cuts in warmer climates bleed more than in colder climates. When the body is warm or hot it cools down through sweating but also by pumping more blood towards the surface layers (which also helps sweating's effectiveness). Therefore I would imagine that a shallow but long cut would bleed more in a hot climate than a cold one. As such, it may have been a minor contributing factor in swords from hotter climates tending to (as far as I can tell) have more pronounced curved design than swords from cooler places. Obviously there a many other factors that are more important, but I suspect it must be a factor to some degree.
One thing that comes to mind is the Japanese method of holding the sword to strike above the head or to the side with the tip pointing rearward. Against an opponent not familiar with your weapon it gives the illusion of being shorter than it actually is. This causes an opponent who would otherwise be a skilled swordsman to engage at a closer range than he would otherwise if he were aware of the true length of your blade.
That doesn't make sense. If the opponent is tricked into believing they have a range advantage why would they move in closer combat and negate that advantage?
I think this type of draw cuts are good for very close range fighting. At grappling distance, they deliver effective strikes, leaving no space to the opponent for a counter attack.
It's also a great way to cut through cloth, since many of the culture used many layers for both climate and protection, seems like a good way to get the fleshy bits exposed...
The center of gravity is slightly ahead of the handle so cutting toward the center of gravity and applying the proper curvature would provide a deep long cut necessary to its purpose.
Thanks for the video. As for the construction, I think they're related but if there is cause and effect they're reversed from the way you were considering them - the hilts are less robust because the way swords were used in that time and place meant they had no need of a more robust hilt. It's a very old style of swordsmanship that probably goes back to the kopesh at least. You have a set of good exercises that can be practiced solo for health benefits like a yoga, but the movements can also be applied fairly easily if the need arrives as well. That makes it easy for the form to spread and to survive. So I'd really suggest the best way to answer the question of why this was widely practiced in that area in the late period you reference is to reverse the question, and ask why it was NOT the practice elsewhere. With regard to Europe, at least, I suspect the best answer is climate and armor. I see this ancient style of swordsmanship as probably having been even more widespread initially, ca. 3kbce it must have been everywhere. But over time it becomes obsolete wherever relatively heavy armor becomes common, and survives primarily in climates which include extreme heat where armor was likely to be lighter in construction and less often worn at all. There are similar movements practiced in the Philippines, Indonesia, etc.
i think curved swords keep their motion going even during sword clash as they don't clog up with opponent sword.. so i think they can land far greater number of attacks if motion is unhindered even during blocking as their curvature allows it to slide away...kind of similar to the difference between a solid and flexible wooden stick.. the latter allows you to hit something continuously without stop.. granting additional hits on opponent is very critical in a fight.
My conjecture is that with a curved blade you might be able to attack a shielded opponent by going around the back of the shield with the curvature of the blade.
So just a thought, we know curved swords were better at freeing themselves, hence the use by cavalry, so lets take that line further. A quick drawing motion that allows the blade to keep moving without the risk of being bound from committing to a deeper percussive cut might be seen as a desirable tactic. Keep your blade free and moving, seeking to wound were you can but also being always available to defend or disengage as needed.
Im no expert.. Matter of fact a beginner actually but I have a feeling that the weight of the sword can be a major factor in this excersize and also this excersize would be more damaging that benefit when it comes to a kilij because a kilij has a double edge (one half of the other side of the blade is sharp) so this excersize is limited to a shamshir. Secondly, I think the whole point of long draws were because sabers were particularly good at drawing that cuts which could be done better with a straight blade, so the whole concept is to bleed the enemy out more than just splitting him in half. Like if you had missed to kill him with one blow he eventually would die in the battle due to loss of blood due to the long deep cut.
interesting, and i think i saw some vids of modern kali fighting style from philipines and it use the same fast swings to bleed the enemy and drives him backwards, rather then causing devastating damage like rapiers
Matt, I think you've already mostly answered your own question: it forces you to learn to use all of the huge muscles of your back while also turning your torso, improving your ability to make serious, nasty cuts.
I'd be very curious now to see someone test different cutting techniques against multiple layers of loose fabric. I would not be surprised if draw-cutting worked best. it makes me think of cutting fabric for sewing, the easiest method besides scissors (and for cutting across the weave) is a curved blade on a firm surface.
One reason could be when your in a body of soldiers, several hundred or thousand, all moving forwards to engage the enemy at close quarters, you may not have the room to use extended arm cuts, your enemy being so close to you and not being able to go back or to the side, just like at a large concert, when the band comes on, the crowd surges forward and all you can do is go with it, in the context of a battle, until your literally face to face with the enemy, then cutting short and close would be very usefull
Well, I am just one of the cavalry theory guys personaly. But I may have been wrong. The problem is, the mounted lancers usualy didn't carry a bow and arrows. With the only exception known to me: the byzantine cataphracts. But they didn't gallop in full speed into the enemy formation. They maintained tight wedge formation and their heavily armored horses trotted at max. They used they missile weapons to create a gap in the enemy line, and then used they lances and further on maces an axes to exploit such a gap. Horse archers with a lance as well as sword and shield were quite rare. The other example comes into my mind: Belisariuses Bucelarii. But steppe warriors rode mares, smaller in size than stalions and not as physicaly strong as stalions. But! Mares provided them with milk. Each one warrior had several mares, and thus all army could perform very deep and fast strategic maneuvres while not beeing slowed down by the supply wagon train. Decently armed horse archer/lancer/swordsman would fatigue his mares. Even if he had the opportunity to remount during the battle. European shock cavalry was dedicated to delivering the decisive blow. In a short period of time, on a short distance. But, maybe I am wrong. I just guess. I am not a professional military historian. Anyway, watching your channel is a pure delight for me. Thank you very much! Greetings from Prague, Czech republic, Central Europe!
Maybe the cutting from the elbow and shoulder, but not the wrist could help with edge alignment, along locking the wrist and using a hammer grip. If this is the case draw cuts are a good way to maintain a lot of mobility despite not having the finer movements of the wrist. There's also the issue of injury, and maybe this was considered proper form to prevent it to a certain extent.
I am going to "shoot from the hip" here and touch on a point that a few others have alluded to. It seems to be a technique/style with a strong bend towards defense. In close, and with those tight cuts, the quick movements of a curved blade like that (coupled w/ a shield) seem to obstruct a potential blade coming in . . . even if inadvertently so. It also seems to keep limbs from being over exposed. I see this being tailored more for group, melee fighting than say dueling. If a few fighters got back-to-back or side-to-side like this it would seem to form a "looser" version of a hoplite style of fighting that is more suited for slashing and cutting verses thrusting.
I think the tree exercise is just what it is- an exercise. It strengthens the shoulder and back but I don’t think it necessarily means that they mostly fought at such a close range. All you need to hit an enemy that is farther away from you than your knee (which I imagine encapsulates most scenarios), is to extend your wrist and elbow through the cut, but the force of the cut nonetheless comes from your shoulder and back, which you’ve been practicing.
@@danyoutube7491 If he said he's not a lyre, he isn't saying he's not a liar. And if saying you're not a liar is what a liar would do, then he can't be a liar, which means he's being honest about being a lyre. #logics
I think it had to do with the general lack of armor from one person to another, the thicker looser garments used to deflect heat.. that also may catch and gum up regular blows.. and the general in close fighting nature that rose to this being a thing.
*Another video*
A man of his word
and also apologizes to trees
A true gentleman indeed
It's England. They have more swords than trees.
@@jeffreyquinn3820 not for long I'm afraid
And also a man of his sword too.
@@Null_Vampyrr Oh?
Well he isnt married so go for it, girl. At least he wasnt in this video.
I actually recognize the drawing cut! My grandfather is from Arabia and he spend a considerable time training with us kids! We used Shamshirs (which are originally swords from Persia). Grandfather put a pole up in the middle of his garden and told us to perform certain cuts from all angles as well as ramming the pommel into the pole. I did read that the Europeans used similar methods in the medieval period to train their kids, they too put poles up (or used trees) to perform basic cuts and movements! But here’s something which always surprised me: my grandfather was hostile against special footwork and rejected it completely. I recall very vividly how he told us that “specialized footwork is garbage. It’s no good. You walk the way how you would normally walk!”
I’m curious why he was so opposed to fencing footwork. It’s like he saw it as a danger.
I can't say for absolute certainty but I'd be willing to guess he'd be against fancy footwork as it's just as much a danger as it is an aid. Fancy footwork can certainly allow you to out-maneuver an opponent but it's also very fine motor movement and can be easy to mess up, *especially* when you're in the middle of battle. Trying to manage both your sword movement, shield positioning and on top of that using special footwork can be mentally taxing and wind up with you potentially leaving openings you normally wouldn't. By comparison moving and walking as you always do is pure instinct and not taxing at all to do without thinking.
A good example is sea-farers and what we call sea legs. To sailors the unique movement of walking on a ship that's rocking and swaying is purely natural and becomes their normal way of moving, but this resulted in them being more than a little tipsy when on land and they'd have to concentrate to walk normally. Similarly someone who's never been on a ship would struggle to walk straight while on one while walking on land is natural.
The same applies to fighting footwork, unless you're constantly doing it all the time you're not gonna be able to do it without concentrating on it and in battle it's better to stick to efficient simplicity than to potentially loose focus and die
@@corvuscolbrand You explained it very well. Another reason is that , it is predictable.Special moves with a certain systematic are more easily predicted by the opponent. It can also cause you to not be able to use time correctly. Because large muscle groups are not as fast as hand movements, no matter how quickly you move them and cause you to expend more energy which is undesirable in a long struggle.
From someone who attempted to spar with friends with training swords except we started in winter with half a foot of snow: Maybe because fancy footwork straight up doesn't work without the correct terrain? Certainly, I found myself wanting to do X/Y/Z only to just... not be able to do that because the half a foot of snow also had ice beneath :p
"MOOOOM, the new neighbour is hacking a tree with a sword!"
"Mertyl, get th' hose. The dadblamed HEMAs is at it agin!"
Why he does not use the Dane axe as a proper barbarian is beyond me...
unethical hacker!!!!!!
That new neighbor is a bloody wanker, always hacking at his tree day and night.... lol
*looks out of window* "He's rubbish. He's missing it most of the time...."
The people of that time and area liked bullying trees. "Haha, I'm *not* cutting you! I'm not cutting you! I'm not cutting you!"
Your back garden looks beautiful, and I hope no one will be too upset with you carving up Matt Treeston
Did you see that warrior from England? He's got a curved sword.
Haha!!! Dovahkiin!
@@Al_Man9oori Did we mention they were curved? Cause lemme tell ya! They're real! They exist! Just ask the folk of Hammerfell!
Hey dudes,it is CUUUUUURVED!
Anyone seen a woman running from the thalmor? Cinnamon skin
"That's for damn sure..."
I think clothing also had something to do with it. layered cloth can be very effective against cuts but the draw will more effectively go through layers.
I agree. The clothing of those areas and times tended to be loose layers of cloth. In many of the upper classes it would be layers of silk, which would require a very sharp sword and good technique to damage.
Especially considering how effective layered silk was as armor.
@@SuperOtter13 The clothing of those areas and times was very diverse, because this is an enormously large area and broad range of time periods.
Hotter climate usually means less armor or more exposed body parts, because you would cook in a full plate with mail and gambison inside, if there are no "ventilation" (openings). Even the heaviest oriental armors have more openings than the european full plate, but you need to get close to reach these openings with a cutting weapon.
Also - and that comes from my fencing experience - you can get very close very fast in a sabre fight, which is not the case with a rapier, sword or any thrusting or mixed weapon. If both opponents attack and counter attack simultaneously, they can headbutt each other by accident. Sabre fencing requires to know how to cut in close combat, if both have sabre-like weapons.
Am a tree surgeon, was working in the heat of the sun for like 7 hrs today, wear cloth armour which is basically a lighter version of a gambeson only on my legs and feet. Nearly died of heatstroke, this is in England, Northern Europe. Fuck medieval warfare in Africa or the Middle east that must have been gnarly
Actually if you made your sword not that curved, you can use it for stabbing, or slashing out.
Turks made their swords like that. And they’d use it for the future as well. And that my frends, has nothing to do with turkish style type of swords. All the curved sword isn’t kilij y’know?
And if you got no ‘lots of steel, (which was eurasian steps like that) you should do the three action with one sword, using others swords for doing (i mean cutting, stabbing) one by one is a good strategy as well.
But y’know, they had only larch trees, useless lands, and horses back the time.
The average temperature in Bagram, northern Afganistan, is extremely comparable to that of New York city, which is pretty cold. Rome, Istanbul and Tunis, Tunisia are comparable to Baltimore, where I'm from, in the central east coast of the US. Salonica is slightly hotter. Jerusalem and Antioch are substantially hotter. Bagdad, where the some of the first caliphs lived, is extremely hot. England, Germany, and France, by comparison, mostly have cooler summers and warmer winters than every single one of these places. All of this is to say that, while it may be broadly true that some areas of northwestern Europe are cooler in the summer than some of the places Mat claimed these types of curved swords were particularly popular, it's clearly not the case that there is some sort of essential quality about the relationship between temperature and the usage of curved swords. If Mat's claim that these swords were very popular across the whole area from Northern Africa to India is true, then clearly it has to do with a lot more than the weather, since the weather across this massive area which spans nearly a quarter of the circumference of the earth is extremely varied. Personally, I'm unconvinced that it's reasonable to make a statement that seems to suggest that this area was relatively monolithic in terms of the types of swords which were used in it.
Max Bachvaroff
İ read it with pleasure but, use some paragraph please, i’m not as good as you are at the language ;).
So, northern mediterranean clime’s (also knowing soutern europe) temperature not that hot. And it does not have the desert, equator radiation, has a lot of green. Yet, yes.
But, turk’s purpose with curved sword has nothing with clime at the first time. They’d to fight every piese of iron. They needed a thing for multiple utilize.
And, who met with turks, (mongolians, russians, chines, arabian) made their sword like that. Being a hard situation makes you hard as well, and smart. İ dunno, can’t do a unbiased comment.
İf you wanna cut good, much curved much good. İf you wanna thrust well, narrow point better. For split it out, need a axe.
But, you’re not that rich, you should have give up been a fastidious.
For arming part, sabers, especially turk’s one is the best. İ’m gone give you an example;
www.google.com.tr/amp/s/www.pinterest.com/amp/pin/513058582527247093/
İf you can open it ‘course. You know, pinterest ;).
In South Asian countries like India, thailand, Vietnam etc, because these countries have hot and humid climate , people didn't use full body armour. They used armour only on their chest and back. They didn't use gloves or other types of stuffs.
I remember hearing from a British army officer that he remembered British soldiers on crowd control duty (in Lebanon in WW2 IIRC) being surprised by older Arabs jumping out from the crowd to very close range, much closer than soldiers could use their bayonets, and delivering a series of wicked cuts that weren't deep but bled profusely before disappearing back into the mob. If the sword was the sidearm to a rifle or lance then this tactic and the knee on the tree exercise makes sense, it is about minimising the reach disadvantage their sidearms have against opponents' main weapons.
Heard that from Lindybeige haven't you?
@@junichiroyamashita It's an anecdote that gets around.
I think your mention of those draw cuts using some of the same muscles used in archery is an interesting point. As I understand it, mounted archery was one of the main ways Turkish/Persian/Middle Eastern/North African cavalry tended to fight. So I can see that contributing to their choice of sidearm; something that uses movements and muscles that the more important aspect of your training would promote seems like it would be appealing. I don't think this would be the main reason, but I can see it being a contributing factor.
That's a really insightful idea.
Bring back mounted warfare as a sport
Atlı okçular tarihte ilk Türklerede birde korelilerde görülmüştür.
O dönem koreliler hun Türklerile iletişimde olduğu için Türk ok yapımını ve at üstünde kullanmayı öğrendiler.
korelilerin komşuları olan japonya, çin...oklarına baktığınızda kore oklarının Türk oklarına benzediğini anlayacaksınız.
Çünkü Türk okları atın kafasına ve vücuduna çarpmasın diye küçük yapılıyordu.
Having been a practitioner myself, one of the theory is the style of fighting or martial art of the weapons. In India , the curve sword is a standard weapon chose during the indo-persion period. The weilding or style of fighting is effective if using a curve sword compared to a straight swords. Different type of sword- different fighting styles. We know during war each battalion is setup via rows . During frontal assault or dog fight of two opposite side, Curved sword is used at the first or second row of the battalion during charge. Main goal is to go through the line of defense like a moving body of a snake - not to kill the opponent but to break the posture of the enemy, bait the enemy or even disorientate the enemy , this is to setup the kill blow coming from the next line or row of assault. At times the next row may do the same hitting important areas of the body since no one could afford spending time going through a person armor while charging. While disoriented with this blows, the fatal blow will come unexpected, looking at the indo persian armor. Stab of Katar to the face and neck. If the soldier has fallen from the charge - the opponent has time to lift up the chain armor and hit the killer blow.
How sharp are these sword compared to Japanese katana ?
@@marveen6372 How sharp is a knife?
@@marveen6372 sharpness is not something that is standard individual blades will have varying degree of sharpness, but if we talk about blade geometry that help in cutting and slicing, then these swords are far superior for those purposes compared to a katana.
I see Captain Context, I click like. That was easy.
I think a point that is often brought up is that the draw cut is (supposedly) a very good way of getting through textiles, in particular ones that are resilient to other forms of penetration; such as silk. Personally I am rather conflicted about whether that on its own is good motivation for a draw cut, as I can't possibly imagine that many people wearing silk. However, should the Middle East and Asian cultures that were using the draw cut have access to other more common textiles that are indeed relatively more protective against a normal cut and/or thrusting, it could be motivation.
EDIT: I also just realized that the Chinese, the largest producers (and wearers, arguably) of silk aren't particularly known for their curved weaponry. They of course have some swords that have somewhat curved tips, but these are more like falchion type weapons in their use. I would presume they would be the first to consider blade designs specialised for dealing with these kind of textiles.
Seems to me those long draw cuts are also a way to position the tip to take advantage of any potential gaps in the armor; get in close and find that opening in the arm pit or under the chin....
The Chinese swords would be good on the tip cut, which would also cut through fabric.
To me, it seems like good practice for very close combat where situations dont allow standoff distances available in say duels. whether it be the front lines of a formation in battle or crowded streets. in conjunction against light armour or non, typical amongst most in central Asia and India, and it appears to be flexible enough that the general direction my be obvious, the specific angle can be quite unpredictable (more so being so close).
Really interesting how it uses the blade so close to the body
Reminds me of that video you made a while ago with the tulwar-like sword where you swung it over your head around your back and into a slashing cut.
Great Video Matt!
I agree with you that the drawing motion cut was popular for two key reasons:
1) Design of the blade - a draw cut maximizes the surface area of the blade that comes in contact with the target. Especially true of a curved blade which naturally wants to "slide off" the target. The hilt shape also makes it more ergonomic to "pull" the blade through the cut.
2) Clothing - people in these areas typically wore layers of light, loose clothing due to the climate which a blade could get wrapped up in so emphasizing the slicing motion of the blade is necessary to get through the fabric.
Great info on these special swords. I always love when you show how particular swords are and were used. Thanks for the vid and all your time and effort placed into all of these.
A hypothesis: if used with a shield perhaps the exercise is preformed with the left knee against the tree, as that produces a classic left foot forward stance, most all my training and style stems from footwork, I was trained as a boxer for 17+ years and as a newbie to the sword world I definitely favor styles that mimic boxing stance as in sword and shield/ buckler, just things I think about between exercises and watching your videos, Matt! Also I noticed immediately upon doing this exercise is is very relaxing and reliving to any tight hamstrings or lower back, a excellent way to start the day, and to wake up the spine be a sword fighter or not!
The cutting practise was mesmerizing.
Your movements are so elegant...this is one of the many reasons I want to buy a saber
My god, that was hypnotic.
I think it was a lot of things. It looks impressive (not that that's a major concideration, but it's A concideration, minor though it is), it's a sword designed for slicing, not chopping, so they practiced slicing. They wanted their people to slice really well, so they drilled it and gave them swords that did that one thing really well. And because they were doing that one thing really well, they produced swords that did that one thing really well.
That was rambling, I admit that.
apologies for commenting having only viewed this just now. I use a tulwar. the main reason for the style of attack and practice for the tulwar in particular and any sword that has the disc pommel on the hilt is the disc limits wrist movements and forces you to use more elbow and shoulder to wield it in striking and cutting. thanks for the video!
I think you are exactly right in your read on the way and reasons for the practice techniques! I, incidentally, think the shamshir is the most beautiful sword ever designed! And the mameluke hilt is very ergonomically designed as well. All in all, a beautiful sword combination!!!!
This drill is also EXTREMELY common in various Filipino martial arts systems (especially inPekiti Tersia in my limited experience). It's usually done without "breaking the wrist" (having it bend).
@1917Cutlass, yes very much so. Salute' to a fellow Escrimador.
Cool to see you testing out the exercise. I also believe it stems from both the style of clothes worn (multi layered cloth that needs to be sliced through, not hacked at) and their preference for getting up close to the enemy.
your commitment to positivity is always appreciated
You can get a deeper cut through layered cloth with a draw cut than with a cleaving cut.
Another excellent analysis. I believe the sawing, slicing action with these types of blades was the object of the technique indeed.
The drawing cut was popilar because curved swords have more metal in a shorter length. If u draw cut it can inflict deep wounds! That will cause death in the battlefield. U can't hack because it won't be effective with the type of armour used in those days. U can defeat a leather armour more effectively with a draw cut. Plus a draw cut is more accurate than a hack, so to defeat the Indian armours accuracy was needed. So they came up with these techniques. Plus tight formations was also a reaaon.
Love technical videos from you. Plus: You apologized to the tree.
Great to see you at the new garden Matt! It is interesting that when we think of fencing (especially Sabre systems and the like) reach is often such a consideration, and then you have these techniques and context where that really takes a back seat. But again I fear we see a one handed sword and forget to analyze it in its original environment and you bringing up the fact that it was originally used with shields is probably the most important take away. The gladius had “short range” but it didn’t matter if it was coming from behind the press of of scutum wall.
the audio is even good outside. I'd say from a viewers perspective, just stick with your integrated mic for now. At least for these types of videos. It might be different if you're at the auction house, or the Wallace collection and whatnot.
Fuck that. He should go back to a lavalier as soon as possible.
@@Bonzulac But tell us Bonzulac, how do you really feel?
Purely conjecture, but could the prevalence of draw cuts have to do with the issue of swords getting caught in opponents? Eliminating the thrust with the curve of the blade, and focusing on shallower, longer cuts could be (in part) to ensure one doesn't lose one's sword in a fight.
Not that it was a huge consideration in Western European designs, but perhaps differences in available resources at the time made it higher priority in other regions of the world.
matt easton saying sorry to a tree was all i needed today.
Loving the new house. Hope to see more great content soon! Cheers Matt!
That is a great exercise for curved swords . thank you. I will be adding that one. It looks great for close combat and drawing the length of the blade it will,as you said produce long wounds and with a razor sharp blade I believe quite deep as the pressure from the draw and shape of the blade should cause it to bite flesh hard.
I very briefly studied Tai Chi Dao and that's the way we were taught to execute cuts.
It was explained to me with the following reasons:
1) let the spine rotation do the cut, not your sword-arm. If you extend your arm to execute a slash you'd tire quickly. Also, if you extend the arm you'd be flexing your wrist and opening up your guard
2) The sharpest part of the blade was near the hilt, the weight is instead nearer the tip. Cuts would then slash open the flesh with the sharpest part of the blade, and the weight coming in after the cut would make the wounds worse.
3)Such a diagonal cut was also meant to "slide" between ribs in order to avoid bouncing off the ribcage.
have of way of knowing if any of 2 or 3 is true, but 1 is in my very limited experience.
I believe the reason for this slashing/cutting technique is the steel. Wootz steel has a remarkable property in that it cuts extremely well when drawn. Wootz steel does not need an edge to cut. The steel contains small carbide clusters imbedded in a steel matrix which also give wootz steel it's beautiful pattern. These carbide clusters are like diamonds in a saw. When moved back and forth, the carbide particles in the blade grind themselves into the the material being cut. Wootz does not have to hardened to make use of this property, but hardening improves the durability of the cutting edge.
That method seems conducive to learning to use the sword at extremely close range. Matt, a well-practiced swordsman, struggles a little bit being so close. I recall an account he mentioned a while back of a 19th century man who attacked a knot of British colonial soldiers with a sword similar to this one, and the description suggested that he did terrible harm in the formation, too close for rifles and bayonets to be brought to bear - this technique seems perfect for that scenario, or any other where there's a press of bodies or other tight quarters. Full extension strikes are relatively easy, effective striking with a weapon at dirty boxing range is more difficult.
A teacher I had in FMA once explained to me that if a student could do a particular drill (a sinawali, in this case, so practicing a string of attacks without getting my arms or weapons tangled) keeping the sticks close to my body, I would find it relatively easy to make those strikes with arms extended.
Oh, hey, and what a nice tree!
Trees thoughts:
"Oh hey! Look! New people moving in! Well they seem like nice people, this should be fun!"
Sees Matt unpacking some antique swords.
"Oh neat! The bald one has a bunch of neat old stuff! That's interesting."
Matt starts walking toward tree with camera and sword in hand.
"A camera? Is he like a famous UA-camr or something? Wait, hes walking this way. Am I going to be famous?!?!?"
Matt turns on camera and starts talking while showing off sword.
"HI MOM! LOOK! I'M ON UA-cam! Have you seen those Eastons? They have curved swords, CURVED SWORDS! Harharhar."
Matt turns around and puts knee on tree while holding sword to the side.
"Whoa, wait! What are you doing? It was just a joke man. Ya know, a meme? Surly a fine gentlemen like yourself can appreciate a good meme."
Matt starts practicing cuts in front of tree.
"Hey man, calm down! I know its an old worn out meme but I just couldn't pass up the opportunity ya know? PLEASE DON'T HURT ME!"
Matt taps tree with sword.
"WHOA, HEY LOOK I'M SORRY OK! WAS IT THE BALD COMMENT EARLIER?! I DIDN'T MEAN IT THAT WAY I SWEAR! BALD IS BEAUTIFUL, RIGHT?!?! *starts sobbing* PLEEEEEASE DON'T HURT ME!!!"
Matt stops and finishes the video and walks away
"Ohgodohgodohgod..... The new people are freakin psychos... What am I gonna do?..."
What
Poor tree
very interesting insight that it also gets you to use your back muscles, like an archer. and I really appreciated 1:38
I think it likely had to do with the armor, they were facing more gambeson-like than chainmail? maybe that had to do with the environment and available materials, its too hot to fight in plate, and you have strong cloth/silk material, so use that instead?
2:08 I disagree and think the intent was to produce Deeper wounds, through the armor, than a chopping motion would produce. it may also produce longer wounds with opportunity, but I do not think that was its primary purpose. I am reminded now, however, of Fairbairns' "other" fighting knife, the 'Smatchet' which was intended to make long (but also deep) drawing cuts on the arms intended to bleed an enemy, among other things.
"CQB", fighting in close formations and/or melees, where I would guess a very high percentage of (sword) fights actually took place?
Don't know why they would use the drawing cut like that, but watching you do that exercise puts the extreme curve of that blade into "perspective". When you cut like that, that curve looks like it is exactly right. The question then becomes, did they cut like that because of the design of the blade, or is the design of the blade meant to optimize that cut. I suspect a good cut of the type you are demonstrating would turn your opponent into a squirting pile of stinking red goo in pretty short order.
I think it is to do with clothing. I did some tests personally and found drawing cuts did better on certain materials. And would of caused more damage in battle facing that situation. As a general sword blow glances off and causes less damage in the same situation.
clothing and soft armor can bunch up when struck and that can cause a blade to fail to penetrate deep enough to wound (more material presses against more of the surface of the blade). A drawing cut, stretches the material and reduces the surface area in contact with the blade, making for a more reliable degree of penetration.
Gaining close quartar pary strength and then cutting back...seems to me the purpose.
Yes it does, correct. When your arms are closer to your center of gravity they are much more grounded and “stronger”. Parrying with arms straight out vs tucked in and close is a world of difference. Then of course there are the fast brutal slashed that would follow from that position very easily as shown.
When using curved practice swords, I noticed that after many sparring rounds that simply using drawing slashes along with a stance step switch, I could fight all day and did not tire. That is my opinion, however. It just seemed like I never ran out of gas and only got faster as the sessions went on using drawing slashes vs. stabs and hacking strikes.
Slightly outside the box thought, perhaps wanting to enter grappling range could have something to do with it, sort of like full harness combat favoring grappling with daggers over extended arm sword swings
Fantastic exercise. As to why many parts of Asia favored the drawing cuts, the search for context continues....
Great to see more about my favourite sword; kilij!
New yard looks very inviting! Hope you 'n yours are enjoying the new home! 👍✌😎
Even for infantry, I imagine not getting stuck matters?
Could there be a case made that medieval fighters/soldiers cared somewhat less about getting stuck b/c 1- armor (tougher/rarer to get stuck in the first place) and 2- close quarter armored fighting tends to devolve into wrestling and stabbing.
So lightly armored troops may have had more reasons to worry about the possibility of getting stuck?
You're correct, especially with cutting weaponry like sabres. Sabre fencing tends to end in close quarters most of the time; that's in Its nature (cutting only moves vs thrusting moves that keeps more distance). Read my post about sabre fencing.
Also, ATHLETICS. While fencing with rapiers, It was mostly my forearm and biceps that hurt. While sabre fencing, It was my shoulder and triceps. So, this exercise is not just for fencing, It's muscle training for sabre fighting. Remember that there are no proper gym clubs in medieval times.
Last reason: for riders, you don't want to slash your own horse while fighting, so you better train at NOT hitting that big thing right in front of you, aka your valiant mount's head.
out of curiosity, why did you move? And repeating my usual request of having you look at the movie fight in Three Musketeers (1973) with Michael York.
I was hoping he'd look at Black '47.
Nice film :) if anyone would like to hear about the history polish saber, I invite you to my channell ll .. .. szablotłuk polski
@Jakub, absolutely! The 70's Musketeer movies with Michael York and the rest had some of the best, most dynamic and entertaining fight scenes.
That's genuinely beautiful.
I’ve seen Gatka practitioners demonstrate tulwar and dhal techniques. I suspect the use of the rapid drawing cuts serves both an offensive and defensive purpose. The rapid draw cuts, combined with the constantly-moving footwork, mean the swordsman is never a static target. Of course, I could be totally wrong and somebody with direct experience with Gatka feel free to correct me.
about training close to the tree, I think it was done to learn how to make proper cuts when the enemy is in grappling range. because at extremely close range, it becomes very hard to cut properly, and if you train how to do proper cuts inside your knee distance, you'll be able to deliver better blows in grappling range.
Looks like a good method for fighting in a close press against lightly armoured opponents. Lots of mobility. No need for a big swing of the weapon. Well placed draw cuts could open up major arteries close to the surface of the skin or slice open large muscle groups. Time for a cutting test & a backyard/garden BBQ.
Could it be that it’s meant for slicing through gambleson/multiple layers of clothes? A shamshir is a very light weapon and may not perform well with a simple strike against thick padding. However a slice with this kind of blade curvature can torn fiber/tissue open, hence deeper the cut.
We all know central & west Asian soldiers like to carry axes, maces etc. for armored enemies. I’d say the saber is mainly for unarmored or lightly armored targets.
Serrated blades were for gambesons I think.
For more elaborate information on some styles of middle eastern swordsmanship, I guess Dr. Khorasani (@Razmafzar) is a good source. Maybe he has an idea about this specific kind of exercise.
My speculation would be that quick drawing motions close to the body like this train you for defensive coverage as this type of blade seems to be protecting you from a lot of angles while it is kept close, though still being dangerous. As far as I know, people using this weapon don't fight with binding techniques. Or maybe something similar to moulinets?
1:07 beautiful demonstration ❤
Did you see those warriors from Hammerfell? They've got curved swords! Curved. Swords.
Was looking for this.
The comment section would be incomplete without this one
Two hours faster than I. Work be damned ..
Seems like it allows for more effective sword use at very close range.
The idea of even lightly hitting a tree with a potentially wootz shamshir hurts my soul, even if it didnt hurt the sword
Gimme a break
No breaks; back to work!
I was also concerned for the tree, but he did apologise so back to practising.
Thats the kind o people that enjoy sword stuff nowadays, overly sensitive nerd pssies who cry because a trunk is cut
@@atheistsgranddaddy5653 I meant because of the potential damage to the sword...
Sword not overly conducive to the thrust. Lots of clothing worn, which resists cuts fairly well. Best target is face.
Also good at very close quarters, particularly in a non-warfighting situation, i.e. a civilian defensive use of the sword, to do a draw cut as the sword is drawn from the scabbard.
They are the reasons I would practice it anyway, in that context.
Hello Matt. You mentioned, that the muscles used to perform draw cut are the same muscles used in archery. Archery was popular in the Middle East, Turkey, Iran. Those warriors already had strong back muscles which naturally inclined them to use draw cuts. So maybe it is not cavalry, but archery led to the development of the draw cut technique?
Great video, Matt. I'm just curious if you think that the drawing type of cut could reduce the transition time between cuts. With a slash it seems that you'd need more time to the recover the sword back into a striking position, whereas these drawing cuts seem to put you right back in position to slash again (based solely on your demonstration). Is it a possibility?
Again, thanks for all the great content.
@NickVerbee. I would agree with your observation. In Escrima/Arnis, that is one of the big benefits to perform slashes in this way, you keep the blade and your weapon arm 'live' meaning it's dynamic, always moving and always threatening with minimum recovery time, if any.
In my personal opinion the drawing cut could be to slice through the loose and layered clothing. The slicing motion is I think less likely to snag in the clothing and has more potential to get through.
Also as it is less demanding of the construction of the sword, the sword can be made less sturdy.
What I love about extremely curved blades (Compared with Katana, Kinjahls, much less Yataghan) is that they naturally follow through the draw-cut, if your point of impact is right, and the point of impact it pretty easy to see, by the point where the curvature of the blade goes past the back-edge. It just takes practice, but not as much as straighter curves, like hangars, and messers, to say nothing of broadswords, and dussaks. Edge Alignment is SOMEHAT less crucial, because if you're a little off, it pulls the edge into alignment. (You lose cutting efficiency, though. That's done by Drag, and the less drag you have, the deeper, and easier the cut.) Of course, the trade-off is it also makes thrusting proportionately more difficult, and less effective. So, you lose some Reach a well. (In blades of equivalent edge-length.)
yes AoE sword for cavalry. they use lances too. all depends on the types of charge. cavalry sabre was very famous. also, it's more maneuverable in confined space compare to straight long sword. also the distribution of tension along the sword goes easier on curved sword over straight sword in cutting. As it minimizes the point of contact when it clashes against anything, due to it's curved shape. earlier European swords were mainly used for thrusting rather than hacking. I came by a very thin looking curved sword in asia, at a glance it looks like you could break it with a swing, saw it cut through a royal palm tree trunk with a single cut. i was super impressed.
That particular exercise you demonstrate would seem to be an effective way to train/condition for fighting from horseback as getting the muscle memory to not hit that immediately in front of you would greatly extend the life of your mount. And the knee being raised might help to condition the upper body to strike similar to being on horseback; you would not have a particularly solid stance and need to work the core muscles to be able to coordinate the strikes. I am curious if they set up targets which they would strike on either side. One thought: desert people wear a lot of layers of loose fitting clothing. It may be that slicing with a long arch is a way to ensure you'll actually hit the body. As I understand it a good fighter would use that type of clothing to effectively conceal and protect their body; a stab could easily miss and get the blade tangled, maybe just for an instant, in the clothing and be enough give the opponent time to react.
The curvature of the blade keeps the blade in contact all the way through the cut drawing like that as you get further through the draw your hand retracts as the main curve of the blade pivots.
That would result in both deeper cuts and better cuts against layered cloth.
If I had to hazard a guess, I would say it's a combination of getting around the shields, how to deal with the armor and the construction of the blade.
Matt, upon seeing you exercise I am sure that style was developed because of the environments on the continent; forests, jungle, the city structure as well as the interiors of the buildings.
In my experience, in Asian martial art we believe that draw cut cover the body more and easy to use in close quarter combat. Another thing may the difference in muscle and physicality, for me as least. I feel it is easier for to generate power when cut that way using the back and shoulder muscle. It is similar to how I feel is easier to use the thumb draw than using the 2 finger European draw in archery.
Aye, i can vouch for what you said
Saves energy for a long extended battles. Cutting from the footwork over upper body power in this motion
An interesting point (pun notsomuch intended) is that these cuts required very little space to do effectively, at least in the way that you're doing them.
This also means though that they would not have that much reach, which I would think would give an advantage to my opponent with a thrusting weapon of comparable length.
Just a hypothesis:
Cuts in warmer climates bleed more than in colder climates.
When the body is warm or hot it cools down through sweating but also by pumping more blood towards the surface layers (which also helps sweating's effectiveness). Therefore I would imagine that a shallow but long cut would bleed more in a hot climate than a cold one.
As such, it may have been a minor contributing factor in swords from hotter climates tending to (as far as I can tell) have more pronounced curved design than swords from cooler places. Obviously there a many other factors that are more important, but I suspect it must be a factor to some degree.
It's like boxing in the pocket, tight confines "fighting in the phone booth"
One thing that comes to mind is the Japanese method of holding the sword to strike above the head or to the side with the tip pointing rearward. Against an opponent not familiar with your weapon it gives the illusion of being shorter than it actually is. This causes an opponent who would otherwise be a skilled swordsman to engage at a closer range than he would otherwise if he were aware of the true length of your blade.
That doesn't make sense. If the opponent is tricked into believing they have a range advantage why would they move in closer combat and negate that advantage?
I think this type of draw cuts are good for very close range fighting. At grappling distance, they deliver effective strikes, leaving no space to the opponent for a counter attack.
It's also a great way to cut through cloth, since many of the culture used many layers for both climate and protection, seems like a good way to get the fleshy bits exposed...
Did they not use chain mail?
Nice video ! Can you investigate Turkish yalmanli kilij please
The center of gravity is slightly ahead of the handle so cutting toward the center of gravity and applying the proper curvature would provide a deep long cut necessary to its purpose.
Thanks for the video.
As for the construction, I think they're related but if there is cause and effect they're reversed from the way you were considering them - the hilts are less robust because the way swords were used in that time and place meant they had no need of a more robust hilt. It's a very old style of swordsmanship that probably goes back to the kopesh at least. You have a set of good exercises that can be practiced solo for health benefits like a yoga, but the movements can also be applied fairly easily if the need arrives as well. That makes it easy for the form to spread and to survive. So I'd really suggest the best way to answer the question of why this was widely practiced in that area in the late period you reference is to reverse the question, and ask why it was NOT the practice elsewhere.
With regard to Europe, at least, I suspect the best answer is climate and armor. I see this ancient style of swordsmanship as probably having been even more widespread initially, ca. 3kbce it must have been everywhere. But over time it becomes obsolete wherever relatively heavy armor becomes common, and survives primarily in climates which include extreme heat where armor was likely to be lighter in construction and less often worn at all.
There are similar movements practiced in the Philippines, Indonesia, etc.
i think curved swords keep their motion going even during sword clash as they don't clog up with opponent sword.. so i think they can land far greater number of attacks if motion is unhindered even during blocking as their curvature allows it to slide away...kind of similar to the difference between a solid and flexible wooden stick.. the latter allows you to hit something continuously without stop.. granting additional hits on opponent is very critical in a fight.
Are there no Arabic works on swordsmanship from the period?
May be berber ones
Theres a channel on youtube called Razmafar i believ, its persian martial arts.
My conjecture is that with a curved blade you might be able to attack a shielded opponent by going around the back of the shield with the curvature of the blade.
So just a thought, we know curved swords were better at freeing themselves, hence the use by cavalry, so lets take that line further. A quick drawing motion that allows the blade to keep moving without the risk of being bound from committing to a deeper percussive cut might be seen as a desirable tactic. Keep your blade free and moving, seeking to wound were you can but also being always available to defend or disengage as needed.
Im no expert.. Matter of fact a beginner actually but I have a feeling that the weight of the sword can be a major factor in this excersize and also this excersize would be more damaging that benefit when it comes to a kilij because a kilij has a double edge (one half of the other side of the blade is sharp) so this excersize is limited to a shamshir. Secondly, I think the whole point of long draws were because sabers were particularly good at drawing that cuts which could be done better with a straight blade, so the whole concept is to bleed the enemy out more than just splitting him in half. Like if you had missed to kill him with one blow he eventually would die in the battle due to loss of blood due to the long deep cut.
interesting, and i think i saw some vids of modern kali fighting style from philipines and it use the same fast swings to bleed the enemy and drives him backwards, rather then causing devastating damage like rapiers
Matt, I think you've already mostly answered your own question: it forces you to learn to use all of the huge muscles of your back while also turning your torso, improving your ability to make serious, nasty cuts.
I'd be very curious now to see someone test different cutting techniques against multiple layers of loose fabric. I would not be surprised if draw-cutting worked best.
it makes me think of cutting fabric for sewing, the easiest method besides scissors (and for cutting across the weave) is a curved blade on a firm surface.
I have a 1796 light cavalry saber...will be trying this tomorrow 😁
One reason could be when your in a body of soldiers, several hundred or thousand, all moving forwards to engage the enemy at close quarters, you may not have the room to use extended arm cuts, your enemy being so close to you and not being able to go back or to the side, just like at a large concert, when the band comes on, the crowd surges forward and all you can do is go with it, in the context of a battle, until your literally face to face with the enemy, then cutting short and close would be very usefull
Well, I am just one of the cavalry theory guys personaly. But I may have been wrong. The problem is, the mounted lancers usualy didn't carry a bow and arrows. With the only exception known to me: the byzantine cataphracts. But they didn't gallop in full speed into the enemy formation. They maintained tight wedge formation and their heavily armored horses trotted at max. They used they missile weapons to create a gap in the enemy line, and then used they lances and further on maces an axes to exploit such a gap. Horse archers with a lance as well as sword and shield were quite rare. The other example comes into my mind: Belisariuses Bucelarii. But steppe warriors rode mares, smaller in size than stalions and not as physicaly strong as stalions. But! Mares provided them with milk. Each one warrior had several mares, and thus all army could perform very deep and fast strategic maneuvres while not beeing slowed down by the supply wagon train. Decently armed horse archer/lancer/swordsman would fatigue his mares. Even if he had the opportunity to remount during the battle. European shock cavalry was dedicated to delivering the decisive blow. In a short period of time, on a short distance. But, maybe I am wrong. I just guess. I am not a professional military historian. Anyway, watching your channel is a pure delight for me. Thank you very much! Greetings from Prague, Czech republic, Central Europe!
Maybe the cutting from the elbow and shoulder, but not the wrist could help with edge alignment, along locking the wrist and using a hammer grip. If this is the case draw cuts are a good way to maintain a lot of mobility despite not having the finer movements of the wrist. There's also the issue of injury, and maybe this was considered proper form to prevent it to a certain extent.
He makes that seem so easy!
I am going to "shoot from the hip" here and touch on a point that a few others have alluded to. It seems to be a technique/style with a strong bend towards defense. In close, and with those tight cuts, the quick movements of a curved blade like that (coupled w/ a shield) seem to obstruct a potential blade coming in . . . even if inadvertently so. It also seems to keep limbs from being over exposed. I see this being tailored more for group, melee fighting than say dueling. If a few fighters got back-to-back or side-to-side like this it would seem to form a "looser" version of a hoplite style of fighting that is more suited for slashing and cutting verses thrusting.
I think the tree exercise is just what it is- an exercise. It strengthens the shoulder and back but I don’t think it necessarily means that they mostly fought at such a close range. All you need to hit an enemy that is farther away from you than your knee (which I imagine encapsulates most scenarios), is to extend your wrist and elbow through the cut, but the force of the cut nonetheless comes from your shoulder and back, which you’ve been practicing.
"I'm not a liar"
...that sounds like something a liar would say.
Or something that someone who values their word would say, but with the orange abomination warping discourse, it taints everything around honesty.
Are you sure he didn't say "I am not a lyre" though? Because it sounded like that's what he said.
@@a-blivvy-yus But then, if he did say that, how do we know he isn't a lyre? He says he isn't, but he could be lying.
@@danyoutube7491 If he said he's not a lyre, he isn't saying he's not a liar. And if saying you're not a liar is what a liar would do, then he can't be a liar, which means he's being honest about being a lyre. #logics
I think it had to do with the general lack of armor from one person to another, the thicker looser garments used to deflect heat.. that also may catch and gum up regular blows.. and the general in close fighting nature that rose to this being a thing.