The Last Jedi: Did It Work? - Star Wars SPOILER REVIEW
Вставка
- Опубліковано 17 вер 2024
- Roth Cornet and Dan Murrell give their spoiler review of Star Wars: The Last Jedi!
Subscribe Now! ►► sj.plus/SJNewsS...
For More ScreenJunkies News Visit:
Like us on Facebook: / screenjunkiesnews
Follow us on Twitter: / sjnews
Keep up with us on Instagram: instagr.am/SJNews
Website: www.screenjunki...
Many valid points, but I have to vehemently disagree about Dan's assessment of the Kylo / Rey teamup / breakup. They were both thinking "This is it! I'm breaking through! He/she is coming over to my side!". It was a brief moment of hopeful euphoria, but when the dust settled they immediately realised that they misread the other and that it's not going to be that easy. I thought it was a great and natural conclusion.
I thought that was obvious.haha I guess not...
FarnsworthIII not sure it did continue Reylo when at the end of the film they sort of hint of a relationship between Rey and Po when they meet and introduce themselves, kinda giving each other the eyes
One sentence from the movie describes the movie perfectly - "This isn't going to go the way you think". Personally I loved The Last Jedi, but if you expecting something specific based on your experience of star wars, you'll probably be disappointed.
The GoT of Star Wars movies.
I almost feel like when watching the OGT now, we are watching the story Rey, Kylo and everyone else in the universe told each other. Just because TLJ took all those tropes of the movies and threw them out.
Like Luke said, you heard the stories and I became Legend.
Luke is a hero, but he is a person, and people are flawed.
God I loved this movie.
got is good even while killing off beloved characters, the last jedi was just a bunch of good moments that ended in blue balls
Garrett Kearns the fucking First Order couldn’t blow up one ship 😂😂 they should’ve let jj direct all of them tbh
"Let the past die, kill it you have to" This applies to the fans as well.
Spoilers
R.I.P Admerial Ackbar the best star wars character period
Green Goblin yes, but he went out terribly.
he should have been the one to lightspeed kamikaze into Snoke's ship IMO
Green Goblin his random, oh he dead, was a terrible way to go.
in a real battle thats how a general would usually go out i loved it
IT'S A TRAG
EDY
One of the worst scenes was Rose saving Finn. It ruined the scene. Then she kissed him, and it just didn't work.
Bobby Warren I initially thought Finn was going to die and was actually kind of disappointed that rose saved him. But I really liked how rose was revealed to be a little more selfish than initially fleshed out and that when she kisses Finn he doesn't kiss her back she realizes he doesn't feel the same about her. Her crestfallen look before passing out was Tran's only good piece of acting imo.
I know nobody likes Rose saving Finn and kissing him, but it honestly cracks me up to see Rose kiss Finn because you can tell by the look on Finn's face he's like "OK, that came right out of nowhere. Back to the plot then."
huge downgrade for Finn LOL
Bobby Warren Agreed. I think it’s also an example of what was awful about Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker: lots of big dramatic moments that are then walked back so the lazy writers don’t have to deal with consequences. Finn dies... no he doesn’t, Rey’s parents abandon her... to save (?) her, Chewie dies... just kidding, ad nauseum.
I hate hearing how Rian Johnson was so brilliant because he "subverted everyones expectations".
What's the point in surprising everyone, if the surprises suck & add nothing to the story?
Rian Johnson told a crappy story that made no sense, & gave very little character development to the cast (with the exception of Reylo). He also treated beloved classic characters with no respect by turning Leia into Mary Popins, & Luke into a coward that likes to milk 4 breasted alien jugs. At least let Luke die with some dignity, geez.
agreed. to shoe-horn-in plots and characters for the purpose to subvert expectations doesnt make any of it relevant to the actual story. in a way its fourth wall breaking because these things are happening because fans have expectations NOT because these characters are living a believable existence. are we to assume these characters sit around convinced that Rey's parents cant be relevant cos Luke's dad turned out to be Vader way back when?
Wut. He added to the lore, TFA rebooted it. nNot to mention fantastic dialogue, cinematography, and dialogue.
cinematography yes. dialogue & dialogue (?) both tragically written to drive a ridiculous story. its just the worst.
Wut?
Luke: I can't be what she needs me to be!
Yoda: Heeded my words not, did you? "Pass on what you have learned." Strength, mastery, hmm...but weakness, folly, failure, also. Yes: failure, most of all. The greatest teacher, failure is. Luke, we are what they grow beyond. That is the true burden of all masters.
Luke: [Ren charges at Luke, who blocks and dodges each blow as he returns to a ready stance] I failed you, Ben. I'm sorry.
Ren: I'm sure you are! The Resistance is dead! The war is over! And when I kill you, I will have killed the last Jedi!
Luke: Amazing. Every word of what you just said...was wrong. The Rebellion is reborn today. The war is just beginning. And I will not be the last Jedi.
Ren: I'll destroy her...and you...and all of it.
Luke: [extinguishes his lightsaber] No. Strike me down in anger and I will always be with you. Just like your father.
Kylo: Let the past die. Kill it if you have to. That’s the only way to become what you were meant to be."
Snoke, Luke, Yoda, and Ren's dialogue is all a order of magnitude above most of what we've seen in the past 4 movies and is significantly better than ANH.
I'm not sure how the heck you've come to the conclusion TLJ's dialogue is "Just the worst."
*dialogue and acting
Here’s where I disagree with you Dan. When Rey and Kylo join together for that fight and then immediately split up, it’s not contradictory to the narrative, in fact it IS the narrative. Notice that both Rey and Kylo strongly believe that the other will turn. It’s because they each saw the other’s future (I.E. them uniting to to take down Snoke). In Kylo‘s mind, Rey joining him in killing the Supreme Leader and his guards is her giving in to the dark and joining him in ruling the galaxy. In Rey’s mind, Kylo is turning his back on the First Order by killing the Supreme Leader and killing the guards. It makes perfect sense that after the fight they both expect what they have believed, only to realize that they were mis reading the other’s feelings and intentions. It makes perfect sense.
Colby Clanton it was never fully explained though , with the weird visions Rey was having along with false parenthood. That scene was all over the place now that I come to think of it . Also, the way it played out the pay off was underwhelming . What was the point of both misreading each other if there were no consequences at all for it. Still doesn't make sense/ nor was there a pay off for such a hype that was also teased in the trailers. Rey should have turned to the dark side and that should have been the end of the movie . Period .
Lipziger A false sense of hope of Rey's lineage is NOT a good way for to go for her character . You have to understand that being force sensitive in this universe is something special to have and is cherished since ancient times on the lore for the Jedi to use it for protectors of peace . Making our main hero dismiss her parenthood , the main character , is absolutely the worst thing you can do . I appreciate Rian for not going the direction/ fan theories people wanted, but that's not my point . The fact is that Rian is not a writer and the execution and REVEAL could have been pulled off better. Maybe even shown a flashback of Rey's parents handing her to an orphanage or something . Rian doesn't know how to write emotionally thought provoking scenes and that's the problem . Everything was half assed when it came to writing . You know a movie that perfectly played well the false sense of hope and worked the plot twist better than this movie and came out this year? Something called Blade Runner 2049. Now that, was well written , and it fooled audiences thinking Ryan was the son, but he was truly a nobody, and it worked well there. He's just an android. This one was just not executed well . Nothing was explained , the abolishment of the Jedi/ Sith Order could have gone further, Luke burning the Last Jedi temple could had better reasons, the balancement of the light/dark side of the force could have been better shown and see Rey's thoughts and starting a new generation of Force users who are neither light or grey, but rather just are. And dismissing her parents was an absolute critical error. Imagine if Darth Vader revealed to Luke that he wasn't his father, and Luke's parents were really nobody . The trilogy would never be the same , and would never have the stakes ESB achieved. That's how TLJ feels, because relationships are important to care for the character and Rian screwed it all up.
"Power hungry man that absolutely wants to end everything". You just described Kylo Ren as the most typical villian in a movie. You just contradicted yourself that this movie has no pure evil and good anymore. Are you sure, now , I would agree with you , that this what it looks like the movie was going for. Luke wanted to abolish the Jedi and Sith Order , and Kylo wanted to start something new. But we don't get what Rey wants, being a force user. Nothing there , nothing explained. Poorly written , and it's called poor characterization
+TheNecromancer... it was actually explained, in dialogue, but not so obvious.... and consequences are huge..... think about it
Am I the only one who actually GOT the scene where Rey and Kylo fought together???
It's right after Kylo had just murdered Snoke, and 2 things were happening simultaneously!!
1) Rey was probably thinking that Kylo was now going to turn
2) Kylo was trying to win Rey and get her to side with him
...It was so great to watch a fight with so much complicated emotion around it.
Probably one of the best scenes in the movie.
Terry Tsakiridis
But the scene doesn't add anything, Kylo just kills Snoke to trick you, the viewer, into thinking he would turn, but then he doesn't so the whole scene was pointless because they are back to square one. Why even would Kylo think Rey had turned to the dark side and joined him by her ATTACKING Snoke and the first order, when she didn't know he planned to betray Snoke. Then when the fight ends and they start talking, he goes, "oh I planned to betray Snoke whole time, but that doesn't mean I'm not still evil, that'd be silly! You really misread the scene there" and Rey just goes, "oh, oops my bad" and then leaves. Wow so complicated. The real problem is that it was just a ripoff of the ending of Return of the Jedi but whereas that scene had meaning and impact and finished the character arc of Vader and Luke and was a climatic finale to the series as a whole, this movie was just poking you saying "hey, remember that?" And then nothing important comes of it.
Terry Tsakiridis you’re not. You’re like the 50th comment I’ve seen saying this. About half the top comments are this
Snoke murdered that easily is the worst things that happened in this movie. When Kylo and Rey forced pull Luke's lightsaber, that was just fucked up.
No. You're not the only one who GOT that.
I think the reviewer is the only one who didn't get it.
i was hoping Lando showed up at the casino
That would have been so unbelievably special. He could have helped them escape and returned with them as the code breaker.
I really hate that Lando is just like nowhere to be seen or even heard of m
I thought that was who the "hacker and thief was" I got really excited for just a split second
Background cameo then
I think they wrote this entire arc for him and something went south. It was a journey like he took in the novels. Kinda distant from the main story and being like a filler. With him would have been watchable. Just with Finn wasn't enough.
There's a difference between subverting audience expectations and wasteful audience misdirect for the sake of unfulfilling drama
Most people thought of it as the former.
I think there are aspects of both in the movie
Rey and Kylo Ren teamed up because they each thought the other would turn to their side. Kylo believed Rey would turn dark and Rey believed Kylo would turn to the light. That's why they teamed up to fight the Praetorian guard.
Leif Clements agreed. I completely don’t agree that their whole arc in the first half was just to get them together in a cool fight scene. Their was real motivation and it will likely continue into the next film.
I feel the bringing Rey and Kylo together and then splitting them apart was amazing. It helped them both grow as characters and truely understand what side they are each on. It was so needed.
I agree. Dan normally doesn’t miss such powerful subtlety with characters but he’s really missed the point on this one
Killing Snoke made seem Kylo more evil but at the same time he retains the fact that unlike Darth Vader he seems human and you feel for him.
Exactly. This scene speaks volumes about the character traits of Kylo and Rey. I also think that the Elevator scene before SET US UP SO NICELY lol for this scene. Where they were saying, you will turn, no you will turn and they both tried to turn the other and when they wouldn't they parted. Was so well done. Dan, please go see it again after reading this! lol
10000%
I agree I think that them coming together was appropriately set up as a false positive and Kylo was a bad dude the whole time. Really I think it was showing him beginning to understand the subtlety of the dark side and manipulation.
Everybody forgets.... RIP admiral ackbar. We love you
No one forgets, Admiral Ackbar will live as a legion
"Its a wrap" 😭
Luke Skywalker says “laser sword” in this film.
And that concludes my review of The Last Jedi.
Hire this man! Couldn't agree more
Yes, he uses the term with disdain, summing up his character, and why he is a grumpy old man, who just wants to be left alone. Same with the way he just throws the Lightsaber over his shoulder, when Rey gives it to him
THANK YOU!!
When I heard that line, I rolled my eyes so hard they damn near came out the sockets
Terry Hurley it’s such a bummer. When did Star Wars become so depressing!? Hey all of your heroes are human son since they have flaws they all have to die and fail and such. Luke should not have died. He should have done the same thing as he did but then been shown to have pulled his Xwing out and just been ready to fly off with the rest of the resistance and train Rey
John Big Boss Well, what you found depressing , I found exhilarating. Ive been a fan since the beginning , so I’m not a newcomer who doesn’t care about the OT characters. What happened to the characters? Life. What you do when you’re in your 30’s, is rarely something that you live with for the rest of your life. I think that Luke sacrificing himself was a suitable end. I would say that the actual filming of that moment, could have been done better, but I still think it was fitting
When a movie tells you It doesn't matter...believe them! Light and Dark are equally stupid. Everything is grey and nothing matters. So why watch???
I think you guys hit the nail on the head for a lot of the issues this movie had, and I agree with pretty much every point Dan made. This was not a well written movie at all, completely disregarded a lot of what was established in Force Awakens, and felt like a giant middle finger to the fans who really love and care about this universe. I care about who Rey's parents are, I care about where Snoke came from, I DON'T care about about the poor treatment of bad CGI alien horses or where the Resistance is getting their X-wings from.
Yes, thank you! Plus the Marvel brand of "humor" has no business being in a Star Wars film.
I think it's beautiful that the force isn't some ruling class. It can come out of anyone anywhere. Great people can come from any background and rise to the occasion.
AstartesGaming Not only that, but TFA disregarded the original six films combined, choosing to destroy the values of those six films by giving fans what Disney felt fans wanna hear, instead of what they need to hear. This is why Lucas had the vision of good and evil from the get-go. Disney knew about it so they overran him and trashed his original concepts in favor of "diversity " when the Mouse has pulled this before. And get this: 1. TFA lasted three months at the box office, when any SW films from the past would be in theaters for six months per film, and Disney has the gall to call TFA the biggest domestic gross film of all time. So much for Avatar, ET or Gone With the Wind. 2. Rogue One was in theaters for ten weeks. Disney calls this a success as well. They lie. 3.At a gala event in 2015, attended by the original Han Luke Leia triad and the new generation of heroes, bigwigs said very nice things to Harrison Ford, Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher. They all but ignored Daisy Ridley, John Boyega and Gwen Christie, a sign of things to come. 4. Daisy saw herself onscreen and gushed that it was the happiest moment of her life. Things have changed now as expected, with her being condemned worldwide as the Rapist of Christian values. And keep in mind Try is the first syllable in rapist for a reason. You cannot claim therefore that Last Jedi started the controversy. Force Awakens was the spark which started it.
@goclbert That has always been the case, if it took this movie for you to realize that you weren't paying attention before. Anakin came from nothing, he was a slave just like his mother, who also didn't have any force abilities. Obi Wan came from nothing. Basically every jedi we ever meet comes from nothing. Rey is probably the worst example of this, because despite coming from nothing she's given everything without having to work for any of it. Anakin, despite being the chosen one and training for a significant part of his life, loses all but one of his lightsaber duels in the prequels. Rey never has to work for anything, and never fails at anything she tries.
AstartesGaming Unfortunately in reality certain people of both genders are not mentally qualified for certain work related situations. I myself was born with a schizophrenic disorder, and am considered mentally unfit to work yet still I never let it stop me from working on my own spiritual self. I identify with Rey in this respect . She may not be the Rapist at all. I was trying to make you see that others will condemn her as a feminist rapist. Others are not me. I will always believe in Daisy Ridley for trying to promote positive feminism instead of negative, as you yourself have done. To say that Rey should be hated for being given little without working for it and still be heroic for that, is like condemning Jesus for being a damn carpenter. Or me for being cursed/blessed with an illness which prevents me from giving back to society. Does this make sense? Your chauvinist, procapitalist views are as outdated as the Ten Commandments. The Dark Side has prevented you from seeing a woman as human, same as it has tried to stop me. I am the only one man enough to want to know this Mary Sue type for myself. Why not open up and do likewise ?
I have to disagree with Dan. For the first time. Kylo and Rey get together but the each have a different agenda which is unknown to the other. When they each find out the other's agenda, they part ways again. This worked for me amazingly. This happens in real life. It was brilliant story telling.
Puneet Singh Exactly!
I agree and disagre with dan compeltely. they think the other is wanting the same as they do. they want to find their place.. and help out each other. but rey can not do genocide (rebels, and everyone), where as kylo sees as the only way to get rid of the bad. they show beautifully how someone can be both against something (snoke), but 1 says; he just wasn't doin it right enough and the other one is saying; what he did should never have been done.
This! All the other criticisms (minus the ones of Reys parents being nobodys being a disappointment) I totally get, but it just is beyond me how Dan and Roth could not notice this.
On another note it kind of made me feel stupid that I wrote 7 paragraphs on something you managed to convey in a few sentences.
Puneet Singh I loved that part.
Dan, you said Finn's mission was a complete faliure. But the greatest teacher faliure is.
serban capraru LMAO! Give this person an award!
Nothing in the movie showed that he learned anything though. He deserves to be court martialed for all the people he got killed
Well he decided to axtually join the rebellion after almost leaving.. he learned that there are things that are more than meets the eye in that city he liked but underneath was sometjing sinister going on.. so yes he did learn something in this movie
I agree that their failure was part of the character arc. It was also realistic. Sometimes the good guys fail and the bad guys win. What the person does next is what defines them.
It is not pointless. It is what allows the Order to see through the Rebels escape plan, and what forces Holdo to make her sacrifice. It was important to all of their character arcs.
I don't understand why Dan Murrell is so upset over Rey's parents. They were revealed. The fact they were nobodies is really important and the key message of this film, as seen in the last shot. Anyone can be a hero.
The theories about Rey existed because people needed to explain why she is so strong with the force as she is. Why she was able to do a mind trick afther she just learned that she could use the force. Why she was able to defeat an opponent that has been training in the force for years.
Without a decent explanation she is just a badly written character. In both sequels movies.
17:52 when dan inhales lmao he obviously hated that moment
I think Dan hit the nail on the head- as a fan who cares about canon, story moments, little details and their implications, I felt very frustrated and maybe even betrayed by a lot of TLJ.The high points (Kylo, Rey, Luke) made it worth it for me. But, as a fan of the whole universe, it sucks that I felt the need to jump through mental hoops to justify the story decisions Rian made, especially considering the “rules” set by TFA, the other saga movies, even the books, tv shows etc. Even independent of those, a lot of things still felt unnatural (the pacing probably didnt help.) Part of me does hope that JJ does do some resets to the story to connect the arcs- otherwise Im worried I wont see the value of the trilogy as a whole. The thematic stuff is fine, but the storytelling shouldnt suffer for it.
I disagree with that. How can you feel betrayed, when George Lucas did the same thing with the OT and Prequels? There are so many inconsistencies between those two series. There were a lot of problems with the movie, but it's been blown way out of proportion since things didn't turn out the way people envisioned them.
You know, it's ok to be honest with yourself, you should not force yourself to like the movie, if the movie is bad. Because this movie is bad, it has several huge plot holes, really bad social justice metaphors that have no place in a Satr Wars movie (and will age really badly), it has too much forced humour , that long pointless sidequest takes almost half the movie. It just makes up things and lore as it goes along, it disrespects cannon and the old beloved characters, etc, etc. It's just a bad movie in Star Wars clothes, you should not feel bad for that.
Star Wars means a lot for me, I remember when I first saw it as a kid with my dad, in a little village in Eastern Europe, during the '80s in communist times. Then I found out there is a second part and I got to see it a few years later, on VHS, that was illegal back then, the communists would throw in in jail for owning a VHS player. Then the communists fell and I finally got to see Return of the Jedi, I was a teenager already, the scenes with the Ewoks looked childish, but the rest of the movie was awesome.
I love the Original Trilogy and what Lucas did , those movies are timeless. The new trilogy is shit, JJ had no plan, he just cloned ANH, and called it a day. Johnson has obviously never seen any SW movie, or cartoon, he doesn't care, he just got his orders from Disney and obeyed them the best he could. There will never be anything close to the Original Trilogy, we just have to accept it and cherish what we have.
To: Maxawe Some
__________________
Liking this movie doesn't mean we forced ourselves to do so.
If you didn't like it, good for you, some do, deal with it.
Still, I agree that JJ did just a copy/paste job with Episode VII.
First impressions for me after seeing it tonight: some of the greatest and worst scenes in any Star Wars movie were in The Last Jedi. I am completely on board with Dan's sentiment about being split down the middle on this one. So many great moments undercut by so many silly, boring, or otherwise flawed moments. I hate that I have such a mixed opinion about it.
Yeah, that's a pretty fair assessment of how I felt too.
Jesse Friesen absolutely, I don't understand how people can completely love or truely hate the last jedi
Dan I could not disagree more about the throne room scene, they establish in the elevator scene that they both fully believe to there core that they can turn each other. so the fight scene happens they both truly believe that the other is on there side.
Both said they saw the other turn. Kylo likely saw Rey fighting at his side, Rey likely saw Kylo kill snoke. Seeing those things would absolutely serve as confirmation of what they think is going to happen. It's the greatest example of, "This is not going to go the way you think" for both of them.
I agree. I actually thought it was a great story moment for both of them and their characters.
Anthony, I completely agree, and completely disagree with the reviewer on this particular point.
Yes, exactly. Also for Kylo, he has always wanted power. In his mind, would he ever have the chance to take out Snoke again? At this point he has Rey with him, and knowing the Red Guard would attack him this is likely his best shot if ever. He didn't suddenly decide to go against her again, his plan was to take control from Snoke, and hopefully turn Rey at the same time.
This guy knows things *claps*
Admiral Ackbar SHOULD have been the one that light speeded the ship into snoke's ship
Audience and Po doubted Holdo as leader.Nobody would doubt Admiral Akbar.
It should be Leia.
Agree! he was an Epic fishman, may his legion live forever.
it sucked they gave genreal akbar a bland death, after all he's been through, it was that easy just to blow him up like that.
The holdo character was a waste of space, Akbar would have been way better because he's been there since the beginning and he would have told Poe the plan avoiding all the other boring plot points and wasting half the movie on garbage ideas.
This movie was disappointing, nothing set up from FA was used.
Its just... a waste of what could've been good.
Rose was terrible.
The entire sub-plot with her and Fin was awful, it dragged on and in the end didn't need to exist at all.
Cup Cake Unleashed Yeah I hated Rose, too. I thought the movie was okay but they should have cut that dumb casino bit and put in more character development. Then the movie would have been less shallow and pointless.
Oh..oh god no Ryan Johnson didn't pull off a miracle equivalent to the second comming of jesus and save JJ's broken movie that NObody denied was a second telling of a new hope with open ended questions that he was answering as he was going along instead of just doing what any good director would do and at LEAST...AT LEAST leave a few clues for Rian to pick up...shame
I disagree vehemently on the Kylo/Rey thing. Their coming together made sense, and Kylo got partway there, realizing Snoke was the enemy, but the thing is that it wasn't at all like Vader turning on the Emperor. He wasn't doing it for his family. Kylo Ren is still essentially the same person and he as a character clearly felt like he was bringing Rey to -his- side of things by betraying Snoke. It's why he clearly expected her to join him afterwards, he isn't redeemed because he never has that point where he feels like his worldview is wrong, he realizes Snoke sees him as expendable. It made perfect sense for them to fight off the guards together because Rey thought she had reached Kylo, Kylo thought he would bring Rey around to his way of thinking, and it wasn't 'til the danger of the fight was over that they realized "Oh, wait, we are not on the same page at all." Which is what Luke was telling her to begin with.
I agree. Kylo Ren always wanted Rey to join him, not him join Rey. So it was his chance to kill Snoke and take control, especially since Snoke uses him and admits it in front of him. It wasn't his brief transition to the Light Side. Instead, it was him using Rey's hope of him transitioning to help him solidify his power.
Yes, agreed
Kylos didn't even come close to turning good.
He wanted Rey to join him.
Andrew Nelson interesting point but then again they played off his conflicted persona so heavily in the first and early parts of the movie.
I dont remember how it went down but he turned to the dark side pretty quick sooo wheres the confused guy again?
I know I'm late to the game but I needed to say that this is the best mini thread on the movie. 👏👏
Rian Johnson definitely subverted my expectations, I was expecting an enjoyable movie. It's not what I got.
GhostOfBane hahahahahaha
lmao same here
Nailed it
Well, I straight out hated it, even though not everything was shit. Stil. Worst - STAT WARS - ever.
He did great with the steaming pile of sh*t JJ left him.
I don't think Kylo was lying. He hasn't lie to Rey about anything, not even in the first film. Besides she's the one who says it first "They were nobody", not Kylo. I'm happy she's not connected by blood to any of them. Since Kylo is the last Skywalker I really hope they don't kill him.
I’VE BEEN WAITING FOR SOMEONE TO USE LIGHT SPEED TO DESTROY ANOTHER SHIP!!! Loved that moment!
Max Pfaff That was EPIC
Literally the coolest scene in the movie
It would've been a much more powerful scene if it was General Leia who used the light-speed and sacrificed herself.
Andrew Rivas not just the coolest scene in the movie. Maybe the coolest scene in any star wars movie. My jaw hit the floor.
Loved the visuals but it was WAY too effective and completely unnecessary. Unnecessary in that she could have just set a droid to do that at very beginning of the transports leaving the ship. No one would have died and the entire First Order fleet pursuing them would have been destroyed all the same. And WAY to effective in that, if you can destroy a whole armada of First Order ships by lightspeeding into them like that, why doesn't the Resistance just get a bunch of ship and a bunch of suicide bomber droids to run around lightspeeding the First Order to death?
What a gorgeous, visually stunning, poorly written train wreck of a movie. Nothing made any damned sense. SO BAD. D:
This pretty much says it all right here. It would've been perfect as a series of music videos or something, but the narrative was DOA.
Fans aren't upset because _"It's_ _not_ _like_ _the_ _other_ _films!"_
Fans don't like it because:
1) The plot was stupid and full of more holes than a cheese grater
2) Complete disregard for providing rational motivations behind character's actions
3) Utter disrespect to what has come before. If you're making the 2nd movie in a trilogy, it needs to feel like the second part in a completed whole. This didn't.
Definitely did not feel like the part two that was needed. It was themed more like a part one
What to you were plot holes? Just curious because everyone keeps saying that but I’m not sure what they are talking about
Fans are upset that this wasn't the story that Lucas has written. The fact that this is a Star Wars movie isn't in question at all, it's actually more in sync visually with Ep. IV, V and VI than I, II and III, thankfully. But the story is all wrong. Where are the twins? Why is Hamill being forced to portray Luke this way? Why was Ep VII a rehash of IV and V with VIII also taking some of the carry over? Why do they treat us like idiots and have the resistance fighter taste the salt that we already know wasn't snow? It was pandering and trying to say look, it wasn't Hoth. There is so much wrong with these movies as there is right, but that doesn't make them Ep. VII, VIII and IX as the story goes, just Star Wars movies. Di$ney is really messing up the Star Wars legacy.
Tommy McCartney resistance just destroyed starkiller but now for some reason the situation is dire. Then they go on to not die about 5 times throughout the movie. How were finn and rose manage to get off the first order ship? I dont think they're holes per se, but why did they survive? Why did leia survive the bridge explosion? Why did finn survive his kamikaze run? And then why did rose survive the crash? There was not a good death in the entire movie. Where are the stakes?
Also you know that by not killing leia and chewy in this movie that they're not going to get flattering treatment in the next. They've already begun turning chewy into a joke.
Nailed it, and the bot blaming it stupid... I love star wars, hated this movie for the flaws in both plot and character development. Amazing how no critics point out the plot holes, and how the damage control is in full gear. Every channel now, it was awesome even with all the flaws, then describes how flaws weren't that big... Any good movie doesn't need justification, flaws are the afterthought when people are done discussing the strong points.
Overall I liked the film, but it had a lot of problems. Snoke's character was completely wasted. Casino scenes were not needed. Rose stopping Finn's sacrifice really annoyed me, she risked the lives of everybody left in the resistance doing it, came across as a selfish act more than a selfless act to me. It also had WAY to many jokes, Domhnall Gleeson was completely wasted in this movie, every scene General Hux was in, he got turned into the butt of a joke, I enjoyed it in the opening scene, but it became really old really fast. Really disappointed with how Phasma's character was treated, they clearly didn't learn their lesson from episode 7.
Hamill, Fischer and Driver gave amazing performances in my opinion, the fight scenes were amazing, especially the red soil shooting up from blaster shots on Crait, very visually pleasing. Loved Yoda's scene, that could have gone very wrong but they nailed it. Really liked the flashbacks to Luke contemplating the assassination of Ben, and the different perspectives of the story. Holdo's crash was breathtaking, never heard a theater so silent. Overall I would rate it a generous 7/10, but that could change upon re-watching it.
Andrew i think the whole casino planet arc was to keep a few main characters busy PLUS it was a bit of a metaphor for how our real world works where the wealthy spend their time in luxury, gambling, watching horse races, and making money off misery. I didn't overly enjoy the side arc but i did enjoy the symbolism
I for one loved that Rey is not a Skywalker, an idea further reinforced by the little boy at the end who manifests powers. Enough with the royal bloodline bullshit. In the entire galaxy why would a single family have dominion over this power? It's way more interesting that the force can manifest in anyone. Overall I liked the choices Rian made, not only for Rey but all the main characters.
Agree!
We need a character to get behind
I agree 100% I'm over keeping up with Skywalkers
Darth Carlito true, though I have been a fan of theories of Rey being either Palpatine's daughter or Obi Wan's daughter, which surfed around. I don't mind final twist but a part of me wished that she ended up having famous lineage, and Palpatine idea would have been poetic and amazing, but this is okay as well
Let's be real: Kylo was probably lying
As much as I liked it as a standalone movie.. I'm really upset at the amount of Star Wars lore they just threw out the window. And that lore is rlly what hooked hardcore fans into the universe. Would like to add that Mark Hamil's performance was incredible, even if I was not thrilled with some of the story and character choices Riann made
slamandjam2 this movie is about manipulation and Ray's parents might just be a fake throw out card by Kyloe faking that rays parents don't matter to make her follow him
The movie was far too contrived and filled with plot holes.
The meta aspects are like a cheat, it's subversion and little else.
Please Rewind so like every star wars movie then?
This was a highly loyal adaptation on Luke's character. Look at him throughout the Classic trilogy, it parallels and fits.
Lmao
Disagree completely with Dan on the story choice for the Kylo-Rey fight. It was amazing. You have a dark lord getting played by his apprentice. Rey and Kylo understanding each other and themselves to be similar BUT making opposing choices, which are the stuff the greatest hero-villain pairings are made of. I think it was totally the best part of the movie.
Vasudev Menon
You're right, it was the greatest part of Return of the Jedi! Too bad it was stripped of meaning and made pointless in the Last Jedi.
GBDupree Why do you think it was pointless?
Vasudev Menon
Because nothing was added or changed by it existing, we knew Kylo would stick with the dark side no matter how hard it is for him when he killed Han in TFA, so this scene just reaffirms what we already know. Rey wasn't even slightly seduced by the dark side at all, like at the end of TFA, even though her turning would really make her character more compelling and make a great dynamic setup for episode IX especially if Kylo turned good and had to be the one to save Rey. This would also have a character that has been immersed in both the light and dark side, and with the help of Rey could finally bring balance to the force which would mean he succeeded at being Anakin's successor in a way like he wanted. And even Snoke dying didn't change anything because his character was never developed and we don't even know how important he actually was, and without him Kylo is leading the New Order just as he did in TFA. In fact Snoke was acting kinda stupid since it was obvious that Kylo was not willing to kill Rey because he wanted her to join him, you can tell by his face even, but Snoke was suddenly SO sure of it despite showing signs of distrust of Kylo's commitment earlier. So he died a fool.
Better then Solo's death.
Darth Vader said, "The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force." We have never seen this true until Luke did his force projection. That was amazing, and this movie finally showed us what the force really is, and the incredible potential of it.
if you think about it, yoda used force lightning lol
I know! My main question now is: why doesn't Yoda just use lightning bolts to kill all of the bad guys if he can use all of that power?
because of balance. when the dark rises, the light rises to meet it. same with the light. it is a never ending cycle of trying to balance, and there has to be dark in order for that.
cause of his character.....
Yoda is the bendu
Correction: Yoda uses force lightning from the great beyond, which is kinda horse shit. This trilogy so far is kinda horse shit. It worked for the scene though, so I'm not too mad that particular thing, but I could see how it'd drive SW nerds up the wall.
In summary, we can say that this movie is the most different in the saga, first, we were used to expect to success, victory and the perfect plan that was always fulfilled and we all celebrated at the end with fireworks.
But this time the main theme is the opposite ... the failure, because as we all could appreciate in the end, the resistance ends in the most absolute failure, now they are only a small group of people in the Millennium Falcon, escaping in order to save their lives. That aspect of failure is present throughout the film, in its characters, in the futile plan that turned out to go to that casino planet, the ambiguous character that turned out to be DJ and that in a way let us know and perhaps share his philosophy.
In any case, the main lesson is how we face failure to move forward, process and overcome it, and as Master Drunk Yoda said -“The greatest teacher failure is.”- because hope always arises.
The thing I hated most about it was the writing, like how stupid the whole chase thing was, surely if the rebels ship is faster they would have out run the chasing ships, or if the chasing ships are able to keep up with the rebel ship when its just out of range, why didn't they keep up before it was out of range, or the rebels were out numbered so some of the First Order ships could have cut them off
Also Poe's plan wasn't wrong, it was poorly executed, if Finn/Rose knew how to park they'd have got the right code breaker, and it would have worked, in fact the parking issue can be blamed for both Poes plan and Holdos stupid "lets hope no one is looking at any scanners" plan going wrong
The best part for me though was definitely was Mark Hamill, he played the character so well despite apparently hating the way he was written so much
It's like trying to explain why you don't like a pile of shit. Your not sure why you hate it, u just do . That's how I feel about this p.o.s
Yea Mark did well with what given, just felt they left his character with roo little in the way of passing the torch , and just wtf? And the thing with Yoda. Just kinda wack and silly. Screw Disney
The Force.
bkLEGION3000 dont forget the kids in the end cause wow
I have to admit, I wanted to cheer when at the final battle, you saw 3 TIE fighters be destroyed, and then saw the shadow of the Millennium Falcon come in, and save the day. No one else seems to have mentioned this. Was I the only one that just loved that moment?
I literally thought "I love that falcon" at that moment it appeared with Rey Chewie and Porg.
The Falcon is always a win we all take for granted, maybe we shouldn´t though. By the way I got confused whe I saw Rey on board they didn´t show Chewie picking her, right?
Juanelido Poliketo What do you mean about Chewie not picking her? Han had, and I Rey did nothing to betray that trust. As for the Falcon always being a win? I don’t really understand what you mean? It hasn’t always got heroes out of a jam, and when it has, its because the heroes were piloting it, or, knew how to fix it. For me, the Falcon is just the coolest ship ever, but the reason its so good, is mainly because of the people behind it
ARJ12 Couldn’t believe it when the music started, and worked. Just fantastic. In TFA, the first appearance of The Falcon, on Jakku, was elevated due to the music as well. So well done
What I meant is that scenes with the Falcon are always a win for the movie and audiences tend to love it everytime, I know I do. What I said about taking it for granted meant that the ship itself, cool as it is, requires a lot of work by the film crew to deliver those scenes. The thing with Rey is because I dont recall seeing her reunite with Chewie after her fight with Kylo, so when the Falcon appears she might have been doing her own thing somewhere else. It is clear to me that Chewie and Rey have created a bond and are good friends. I hope we are in the same page now, English is not my first language and I tend to avoid writing long comments
When you talk about the Force and Luke at the end of the movie:
Yoda: So certain, are you? Always with you, what cannot be done. Hear you nothing that I say?
Luke: Master, moving stones around is one thing, but this is... totally different!
Yoda: No! No different! Only different in your mind. You must unlearn what you have learned.
Also that ending was monumental with the binary sunset music/visual.
We are united by our love for the red guard fight and divided by everything else
Lizzie Booth that fight was amazing
Why didn't they use the force to eliminate Praetorian guards? Was their armor infused by dark side? Did I miss something or maybe they explain in EU? The fight looks silly on second viewing.
inFiniteTraCer that's what I was thinking
That wasn't actually the Red Guard. It was the HIGHLY anticipated Knights of Ren that were RECYCLED into the Red Guard 2.0 Ryan Johnson f'd up the Knights of Ren....Was a piece of crap he is.
Andreas Reinold I don't think so, they were called the praetorian guard?
Anyway, my prediction for the opening scene in the next movie:
Kylo ren hallway scene... gos to his underlings,
"Summon the knights of Ren"
Dun dun dunidun duuuun dunnn
I agree with most of the criticisms despite believing the moving was absolutely incredible. I do disagree with Dan's analysis on the throne room scene. One of my favorite parts of the movie was how often they pulled the rug from under expectations and this was one of the big ones. And I think it added complexity to their relationship in that they did team up and were drawn together, but they both had differing expectations in what that would end up being like. It wasn't simple, which is what was the key for me.
George Lucas has always been extremely clear that "balance" in the force is NOT a situation where there are good guys and evil guys. The Jedi are, he says people who bring balance to the force. The sith are people who unbalance the force. The whole prophecy about Annakin bringing balance to the force was a reference, according to Lucas, to the fact that in Return of the Jedi Annakin would kill the Emperor and sacrifice himself in the process, thus wiping out the Sith and bringing balance to the force.
So yeah... this idea that the balance is between equal Jedi and Sith isn't what Lucas meant. And he did invent it, after all.
Who Snoke is is important because at the end of Jedi the empire was defeated. In The Force Awakens the empire is back (just called the first order). Pretty much-undoing everything in the original trilogy. The only explanation is because of Snoke. This is why people want to know about Snoke.
GhostOfBane but if you think about it, darth sidious never had a background until the second trilogy, so there is still time to explore snokes backstory in future movies
Exactly. How did Snoke even come to know Ben, for instance?
The more and more I watch and read reactions to TLJ I find myself feeling more and more outcast in the realm of the few who have almost no flaws with this film. The work Rian put into this film was amazing. He took something not only we love so much but who he himself loved so much and took it in a new, fresh direction that was needed. The way the force was used and almost reintroduced in this film also I thought was perfect. The fact that Rey's parents and Snoke's identity was nothing of importance was something else I really enjoyed. Rey didn't need to be related. She is the face of this new trilogy and shouldn't be hindered by the fact she is still connected to the old. Snoke was something people overthought and looked too far into. No one now in Star Wars can just be a new, normal character. With the amount of lore in the Star Wars Canon, everyone feels like they have to be connected, so seeing two major characters NOT be connected was refreshing and satisfying. Another thing I loved was Johnson's direction in the film. The gorgeous cinematography and style he brought was so great. The only flaws I have are the Finn/Rose arc, which was bloated and needed to be cut out. Also, the humor in this movie, while at times very good and needed, was used too much in times when the tone needed to be more serious. The Luke scene where he is bombarded with enemy fire and he brushes it off I was not a fan of. Maybe I always just thought of him as someone who would be more serious in a time like that. Overall, 9.5/10 for me. This movie is an achievement.
Carter Hutchinson I think they’re showing that Luke’s changed. He was a fresh young warrior, and now he’s a sarcastic, beaten up old man. He’s stopped believing in the ways of the Jedi and cut himself off from the force. Sure, he came to Octoo bcz of the ancient Jedi temple but he said he came there to die. He’s a completely different person.
You're not in the minority, most people liked or loved this film. What you're hearing are the screams of the frustrated few who are pissed that Disney didn't scour UA-cam for Rey and Snoke theories to put in the movie. I don't think it was a 9.5 but it is a very good borderline excellent movie, their were a few problems but the movie is just fine.
great review, agree with all of this!
In the last 2 day I have read so many reviews and tweets from people that hate this movie or don't like it, but 99% of them don't explain what didn't work for them and why they didn't like it. Dan and Roth are the first ones that I really saw explain what didn't work, but they also acknowledged and applauded what worked. I don't agree with all of what they said but I can at least understand why they have that opinion.
I don't really like grading movies with numbers, but if I had to, I would give this movie 4/5 as a movie lover and 5/5 as a Star Wars fan.
I know what was wrong with it, but it didn't bother me so much that I wouldn't enjoy all the things that were great in this movie. I love how Rian took chances. The story and the and twists were not what I was expecting, but emotionally it was what I hoped it would be.
Ema Snow dude, give me a break. Why kill snoke after building him up? Why have the millennium falcon come to save the day again? Why another version of pod races?
Exact opposite for me, they took no chances with the movie and all the "twists" were obvious and pointless to the story. It was a retread of both Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi, but with all the importance of the scenes they ripped off taken out. Like the scene with Rey, Kylo, and Snoke was an exact replica of the ending of Return but completely stripped of meaning and pointless. Snoke dying didn't matter, he didn't even have a character yet, and Kylo didn't turn to do it unlike Vader. So it changes nothing, AND wastes SO much potential. Like they could have had both Rey and Kylo turn to the opposite side, THAT would have been impactful and have meaning. Instead of what we got which is just a reaffirmation of the status quo from Force Awakens, making the whole movie filler so it could be a trilogy.
I don't think Kylo and Rey are necessarily mortal enemies at this point. They did finish the movie on opposite sides, yes, but they made a connection. They clearly have feelings for each other. Rey may feel Kylo only brought her to Snoke's ship because he intended to use her to help him fight off the guards after he killed Snoke, but we may see more of them together. they still seemed connected at the end of the film.
Butch Tyrone I think Snoke is still alive, remember he said that he connected them. Well at the end of the movie they seem to be connected still so either, Snoke was just full of shit or Kylo and Rey are actually doing it themselves.
xXBadapp1exX x, I don't think he's alive, he said he connected them, not that he was the connection between them. I look at it as him calling Rey on her cellphone to then give the phone to Kylo.
I feel like they have a weird love-hate thing going on. She looked more disappointed than angry at him at the end.
A very weird love-hate thing, the way their relationship is portrayed in the movies is very inconsistent. One moment Rey is hating him, the next she has hope for him, then back to the hate, back to the hopefull.. it's like a rollercoaster.
I think she went willingly to snoke's ship.
Here’s one question nobody seems to be asking about tho. Luke said that Ben took with him a handful of his other students and then killed the rest. Clearly this handful of students becomes the passively mentioned “Knights of Ren” but where the hell are these force sensitive former jedi turned dark side knights during all this? The First Order high command and even their Supreme Leader are all present for the battle in this movie but those guys aren’t involved? Why haven’t we seen any of them thus far save for that brief appearance in Rey’s vision?
Either because is not their time yet, or because they're dead.
Maybe the last test was a free-for-all to the death where Kylo stood alone at the end.
Because Rian Johnson didn’t feel like writing them in, which he admitted in an interview which shows what a great storyteller he is
Mystery boxes, bro.
Come on, Dan. If you try to pull an object that's too big, what's going to happen? You move toward it. She wasn't using some sort of force flying ability, it was just how it would work. If you think of it as her trying to pull the ship toward her, but instead the force (physics force not force force) would pull her toward it instead.
Omg the humanity!!
NERD ALERT!
This is actually something featured in the Mistborn books as a major part of its allomancy magic system. If you use your power to pull an object lighter than yourself, it comes towards you; if you pull at an object heavier than yourself, you move toward the object.
If he'd ever read the Mistborn books, which are quite good and one of the better fantasy series out there, what Leia's doing would be immediately apparent to him.
We even had a glimpse of that with Kylo and Rey as they were pushed back for trying to pull the lightsaber to both of their ends.
Didn't even think about that. I love this.
I would have hated this movie if Rey and Kylo came out to be related
I agree 100%
It's an interesting new take on the force to have two non-related characters be bonded by it. I strongly think it's to do with their mutual attraction, especially from his side.
I definitely didn't want them to be related, however, this movie still didn't explain how Rey is so powerful.
To be fair, was it ever really explained how Anakin Skywalker was so powerful? Sometimes random people are blessed with gifts. The show Buffy the Vampire Slayer was centered on depicting an ordinary woman doing extraordinary things. Perhaps Episode IX will go into greater detail, but I think it makes Rey and Kylo's force bond more interesting to think that she's not of his bloodline.
I'm definitely glad she's not in Kylo's bloodline, but I thought something that would've been compelling and would've played right into the movie was revealing that Rey's parents were darkside users. They don't necessarily have to even be in the main lore, but I thought showing that she had ancestry with the darkside of the force would've been a big reveal. I would've been better than The Force Awakens leaving us with the question of her lineage and a good part of the Last Jedi was built upon that just to reveal that her parents are worthless junkers at Jakku.
What I took away about the Rey being special thing is that she is special, but she didn't need to have special lineage like Luke had to be special and be powerful in the force. Just being herself, being Rey, is enough. Sounds cheesy but I really liked that she didn't have some special parentage because that would've been a retread with lukes story
Mads97415
You're right, they shouldn't have retread Luke's story, instead they decided to retread the most overused plot point ever! Every one is special, but You are especially special more than anyone else for no reason, just be you because you were born special, not that you have to train or anything to be good! That's the same plot as every bad generic movie of the last 2 decades, it's the same story as the Emoji Movie!
Luke would not have tried to murder his nephew, he would have tried to save him like he saved his own father. Even Leia shocked me when she gave up in this film on Ben, dumb
That worked too. I was a moment of doubt not one he was going to act one. But at chance on manipulation Ben saw Luke with his saber out and got scared.
Unless Snoke was manipulating Luke from afar as well. I wish they had dropped that in there. It would have made so much sense. And could have been used to explain why Luke ran away, too - because he was afraid of what Snoke had done to him. So he sought out a Jedi Temple to gain knowledge that would guard him from Snoke. But of course, he would have had to read the damn books to gain any knowledge. Really a missed opportunity to not F* up Luke's character.
There are three movies that introduce and create the foundation for the character of Luke Skywalker, I suggest you watch them. That decision, no matter how immediate the regret came was totally against his character.
I can think of two words that describes this Star Wars movie... "New Coke"
Blind taste tests showed it was generally regarded as better than the original but once the public got a hold of it everyone jumped on the "it's new so it sucks" bandwagon because people are scared of new things?
New Coke was a new formula, so, whats the new formulafor Star Wars that was introduced in this film,
Gary Smith, this film, much like New Coke, was a product that nobody had asked for or wanted. What they wanted was Classic Coke, which was much like the same great product that has existed for over 120 years. They wanted a Star Wars that followed the same Epic Saga, not dropped all the story threads and did something completely different. Follow?
Kome1 Star Wars is not a Marvel movie. Its a story told in a certain way with certain characters. This movie just went completely off the tracks of what Star Wars is all about.
It is. Save your money, for real. Just watch the Praetorian guard fight scene on UA-cam when it becomes available and you will have seen everything worth a damn in this crapfest.
I personally loved it!
Snoke was an idiot and I feel like we are not done with Rey's parents.
Are we honestly trusting what a sith tells a jedi? About their parents?
Yeah, no.
A sith or even another Jedi for that matter remember obiwans use of the phrase from a certain point of view . Obiwan was a good guy basically lying . To kylo’s point of view they might be insignificant
I wonder what they saw in this movie, that made them want to give Ryan Johnson a whole new trilogy.
Mulch Butler Maybe Disney saw what 93% of the professional critics saw- a well-made film.
Snoopy Fod It was a legit answer. It was a beautiful film for me personally. And the professional critics agree. It took SW in a whole new direction. I don't really care if the legacy fans are triggered by Johnson's choices.
I think if Rian had done Force Awakens it wouldn't have seemed so abrupt and different. I for one would love to see him handle an entire trilogy. I wish he was doing 9, because handing it back to jj at this point is going to be a rough transition again...
Maybe him adding to and building a bigger galaxy that doesn’t need the skywalkers
I mean I highly doubt it's the critical reception because we all know large studios don't care about critics. But even if they did, it's not like it's an empire-esque masterpiece. Nor have they seen the audience reaction, which looks to be terrible. They haven't seen how much money the movie is going to make yet.
Or is it really as simple as prog plushies selling really well. I'm just so confused.
Rey's parents being nobodies is actually telegraphed pretty strongly in TFA. Maz even tells Rey 'whoever you're waiting for, they're not coming back...'. I think a lot of people, myself included, were expecting something different so we misread the clues. Go back and watch TFA now that you have seen TLJ.
Becky Twigg
Yeah they really played it up to purposefully make us think it's important so all theorizing would include someone important so no one could predict that the real answer was that it didn't matter and isn't important and a big waste of time. It only worked because this is star wars and everyone expects family relations to be a big part of it. The problem is that with the Vader scene in Empire it has meaning when you find out Luke is related and it is impactful for the story, in TLJ it a case of "fooled you, it was actually nothing at all, you wasted your time! Now that that is over we can finally maybe move on to a real story". It was a twist simply because Empire Strikes Back is known so well for its twist. Not because the story needed it.
I think the key theme in this movie is the last words of Rose: ' that's how we'll win, not by destroying what we hate, but by saving what we love '
Therefore each time Fin, Poe, Kylo, Rey, etc met with failure, they were trying to destroy something they hate, and each success because they were trying to save something they love.
I.e. Kylo and Rey individually failed against Snoke because they were trying to destroy him, but Rey and Kylo succeeded because they were trying to save each other.
And then it subverts that message, because Finn was in the middle of trying to save what he loved when she stopped him, and had Luke's ghost not shown up, everyone would have died because of Rose's actions.
"You think it's this, but it's not" was the mission statement of the entire movie, and I hated that.
Nope, I loved Force Awakens.
My take with Kylo talking about Rei's parents is this: he belittled people he didn't know. I'm not convinced they revealed who her parents were. Not sure if they ever will. It would be a character builder for Rei on how she deals with it. Also, if Kylo tapped into her feeling about her parents, feelings he knew that she feared herself, all he was trying to do was instill doubt to her hope. We always have skewed views of our own parents. I think the film was great showing that. It didn't pander to how we think it should be but gave us a present for us to unpack.
I have to disagree on the Rey and Kylo's team up fight scene, I don't think it was in service of an applause moment: the fact that they split up again after the fight I felt was completely in line with the characters, Kylo didn't betray Snoke because he had a change of heart and started believing in the Resistance, I don't think he really cares about the war between the Empire and the Resistance, he killed him for his own personal motives, because, like he said, he wants to kill the past; I think he wants a clean slate, sort of. They team up because in that specific moment their immediate goal was the same, but they're far from being on the same page. And you can't really say that after the fight they become enemies again or that there's hatred between them: each of them wants the other to join them and it is kind of heart-breaking watching on Rey's face the realization that that deep connection they felt with each other won't be enough to reconcile their differences, to bring them together, because their world-view, their values and beliefs are too different.
tenar YES! I think this is exactly what was intended for that scene
I saw Star Wars The Last Jedi last night with a large group of friends. After the end of the movie we were all in agreement, that Disney has officially ruined the Star Wars franchise.
I think Star Wars fans should really remember something - all of the movie's surprises were done with the cooperation and agreement of dozens of extremely bright and talented people. Amazing artists, thinkers, and the series caretakers. So it's not as if Rian Johnson steps into this role and causes chaos, or makes left turns accidentally. These are brilliant story devices that push hard on the boundaries of this galaxy ON PURPOSE in order to genuinely delight and surprise us, the way Star Wars movies should but honestly rarely do - because it's hard. And the friction that can cause is exactly the right sign that they are doing what they should be doing with the story. This movie had several of these moments, epic and unforgettable. When I watch people torn by being excited and being defied at the same time, I think they are essentially saying "I'm not sure the authors at work here know what they are doing." To which I would just say - man, you have the smartest people involved here. There's a really really really good chance they know what they are doing. Chances are your discomfort is due to the set-up of the next surprise and thrill. Let go and enjoy the ride. It's far more fun that way.
Thinking back, A New Hope starts with droids wandering the desert haphazardly and discovering the right guy, in the right place on a planet they accidentally crashed into. You had the wisest wizard tell a direct untruth about the main character's origins. You had three of the four main characters "secretly" in an immediate family that wasn't even written into the story at the time. I mean, goodness. And both Darth Vader and Ben Kenobi could just do whatever it is they wanted to do to advance the plot with their magical powers. The Force has been made up all along the way. That's why it's so fun.
Ray is not going to turn, EVER you know why ?
Disney that’s why
They have her like some sort of Disney princess they want to sell merchandise of her
Not in a million years she is not going to turn
Even in this movie she was supposed to be tempted by the dark side, but she really never was even when Kylo asks her to join him she turns him down immediately
Yeah it's bollucks. When Luke was giving her her only lesson he said that she went straight to the dark side. It turns out later that she just confronted her dark side and beat it without any effort. She continues to be a erfect mary sue, although maybe a little less in your face than in TFA.
Anakin flies into a droid battleship and blows it up at like 8 years old. Luke out-flies Vader and blows up the Death Star with no targeting assistance his first time ever in an X-wing, or flying in space for that matter. Yet Rey is a 'Mary Sue' and too hard to suspend disbelief for. Some of you people are nuts.
Both Anakin and Luke were experienced pilots already. Anakin with his pod racer and Luke in his T 16.
Luke was experienced because....he said he flew through canyons in his T-16? Anakin could pod race AS A CHILD because he was so ridiculously strong in the force. You're giving those characters a pass on the exact same thing you're criticizing Rey for. Makes zero sense.
At least they had a reason
Cinematography was incredible, and the twists kept me on the edge of my seat all the way through. Only complaint would be the casino scene should have been cut by about 10 minutes
I really believe you guys are giving Rian Johnson way too much credit for things. I think he is a great film maker. Lots of parts of the film are awesome but there are a lot of things that don't work in the film. You cant call it subverting audience expectations when the film builds up to something but nothing actually pays off. It's nots subversion, it's just a poorly handled scene. I actually really think in 5 years this film will be looked back upon in the same classification as the prequels are. Loved at the time, but once some time sets in and you return to the film, you realized its not very good.
killamagillagorilla I already think it's not very good...
Didn't hate it didn't love it. My biggest issue is the movie is full of a lot of teases and swerves just for the sake of it, things looking to swing one way then another then finding some non committal middling ground. I keep hearing the word "bold" being used about this movie, and it was different I'll give it that, but I didn't feel it had big enough balls to commit any true reveals, wtf moments, or greater story porgression / set up for ep9. Different yes, but still very safe.
Exactly, swerves just for the sake of it. It's like Rian was just using the Star Wars project as an opportunity to mess with peoples' expectations and subvert them for the sake of being subversive.
I am crushed that the Finn character wasn't developed. He was so adorable in Force Awakens. :'(
I didn't feel a damn when Luke died.. pretty meh way to kill off one of the most iconic char like that. I teared up when Han solo died.. Fck! mark did a great job as Luke in this movie ..too bad they fcked up his char like this in the end. Even the reason why kylo turned to dark is so stupid. Hmm I read my sisters son mind and he has some dark stuff and my 1st instinct is to pull put my lightsaber? And even worse kylo see his uncle with light Saber and destroy the temple and his fellow students? So many plot holes..
Yes, instinct, not thought, he didn't planned on it, "it passed as a fleeting shadow" his words.
Hate taking this out on dan as he is by far the best member of SJ and one of the best if not my favourite movie guys on UA-cam but do Jedi powers really have to be known about before you use them on screen? Surely the mystery and magic of the force is all about Jedi using it in different ways. I liked the force projection, it was unexpected.
Agreed. As long as it's established early on in the film and not just tacked on at the end then it works for me. They established the projections between Rey & Ren throughout the movie, so when Luke uses his version it's both set up well and unexpected.
I'm on your side about this being a non-issue for me, but @FIYARtv, those were not the same thing at all. The first was a simple mind connection made by Snoke apparently between Rey and Kylo and they could only sense each other. The other was a full blown projection that anyone and everyone could see and talk to and actually fully appeared to be in the same location as everyone else. Although the part that confused me about Rey and Kylo was how the water was able to come through, but it was just a little.
omegachaos32 I took it as they could not just sense each other but could see one another as Kylo said he could see her but couldn’t tell where she was before Luke entered the room. Luke just took that same ability and amped it up using all the force he could muster to pull it off which eventually killed him. He read all those Jedi texts and that his projection was able to be that lifelike to everyone showed how powerful he was. That’s just my opinion though.
FIYARtv, Ya, I could see that. They didn't really explain any of it, so that's plausible.
when Dan wants to rant about this trash movie but remembers he is an employee of Screen Junkies....
So how does one learn to read minds like you do, o master Jody?
Cometmoon448 you can tell by his face, look at his body language.
You use logic, knowledge and emotional and social insight.
you can really see it by the video he did this morning...... sucks people cant read body language from this guy....
Chrizzie 78
There's nothing "socially insightful" about angry Star Wars fans.
I fully respect that some loved this film. For me, however, it was the death of my childhood. RIP the real Luke Skywalker.
Taylor Adams did you ever get into the EU?
1) I think Disney really ruined Luke's character. Luke showed nothing but perseverance and determination during everything we have seen until this movie. He was a "true" Jedi refusing to fight to his father and Emperor and by doing so turning his father back to light. This is the essence of him. He would never for a second even think to kill his nephew. Simply NO WAY.
2) Lets assume for some reason Luke is done with "Jedi". I actually found this interesting. What I cannot understand is him giving up the "force". Force is the nature, it is what makes "you" and the whole universe. Luke was trying to understand more of the philosophy/the universe not turn his back to it.
3) I think writers for this movie was not able think something "clever" to bring back Luke from the "broken" self. What made him start to come back was the Princess Leia's message to Obiwan from R2. It was a simple trick which can affect the audience at that moment but an extremely weak one when you look at the big picture. It felt like R2 was wiser than Luke!!! Puked there. If you have to go with this idea, Luke's comeback should be when his dearest friend Han died. This way Han's dead would have meant something too. HUGE mistake.
4) Luke died alone for almost nothing. It broke my heart. Can you believe this is the end for Luke. I am extremely sad about this :( Side note, battle meditation was very common in extended universe. It was awesome to watch Luke doing it. In extended universe, I do not remember anyone dying because of exhaustion like Luke did. Also I fail to see what his death brought to story.
5) Whole Boyega story to Las Vegas was terrible. For the first time I got bored during a Star Wars movie.. I like the fact that some weapon sellers designed both First order tie fighters and x-wings though. That was nice.
6) Po is the a HUUUUGE failure, reason for many deaths and still chosen as a leader??? WTF?
7) For a jedi or sith training is everything. IF Rey has no prior training, it is a travesty that she is a master level light saber user ! puke to that too.
8) Missed opportunity: If Rey joined Kylo after he killed Snook and they were challenged by Luke in next movie that would have been PERFECTION! Alas morons @ Lucas/Disney missed it.
Somethings I liked,
Rey and Kylo fighting together was great. I love the scene where Rey throw the light saber which was caught by Kylo and instantly turned on to kill the guard by an "eye-shut". hahahaha that was satisfying.
P.s. I still think Rey's parent will be *special*. I think Kylo was lying.
1) I wasn't disappointed as much with what they did to Luke's character but how we saw no build up to it. I just felt myself think "are we supposed to believe he would try a cowardly thing?"
2) it was too much of a broken plot point, Luke said "it's time for the Jedi to end" but didn't give a concrete answer why. in Anakin's case (although I think my mind came up with something better) it was just a means to an end with him seeing them as evil now but once again no concrete answer why
3) it's not a question of not able but not willing (see the 3 part analysis by Mauler)
4) I thought battle meditation was to rally allies while disheartening the enemy (that's how it was explained in KOTOR)
5) with no real payoff, I mean are we to believe that the resistance was getting supplied by a rogue faction that were also supplying their enemies and were fully aware of that?
6) because girl power
7) see above
8) that would be a pointless idea, she's already more skilled and powerful than Ren. it's either Rey vs Luke (which I would have preferred with him victorious teaching her humility) or Ren vs Luke. not both
so you also like all style no substance too? I can't get invested in easy wins
Yoda explained the entire movie. That failure can be the best teacher. All the main characters learn from their failures. And that progresses their characters.
Every character fails in the ultimate motive in this movie, the message of the film like Yoda said is learning from failure, well every character failed in this movie episode IX is when they would learn from their mistakes
Congratulations Disney! You just made a "Prequel". LOL
Chris Scorpio note not even close
To be fair, casino scene and escape was very prequelesque. And BB-8 piloting the AT-ST
The fans did start speculating independently. We all did. There was no point in the first movie that asked who Snoke was. They presented him as a new Emperor figure. The original trilogy never explained how the Emperor came to power, and the movies that did explain the mystery away, everyone hated them. They never asked us to speculate about rey's parents. We did that on our own, too. Now we can speculate for the next year and five months about how Leia will be explained away, and if Rey's parents were really nobodies. It's fine. We can do that, on our own...but we can't turn around and get mad at the writers just because they didn't listen to our amazing theories and change their stories to match our thoughts.
You can see it in the (semi)fan reviews. They watched the movie, and came out mad that their theories were all wrong, and they gave it the lowest reviews they could find. It's stupid. The real reviewers point out how the movie looked, the music, the acting, the effects, and the story. You can see the difference in the scores from reviewers and basic viewers.
Not independently, Force Awakens and interviews with the cast, writers, side material and people that work on the movie fed that expectation who is Snoke, who are Ray's parents (if they are drunks how do they have a neat golden ship). There is so much great acting but so much BS as well. Luke's character was awful.
The Emperor wasn't given a backstory until after the trilogy was long over. Rey's parents might be drunks, or junk traders, we don't know. J.J. could have something else in mind, but maybe not. We know that people can be sensitive to the Force without being born from someone famous. Some people just have it. That's part of the meaning behind the slave kid at the end. Maybe her parents traded her for the ship, or maybe there is a bigger story, and Kylo was just feeding into her fears and self-doubts, and the truth will be revealed later. We have two years before we know anything for sure.
Johnson even alluded to it in his interview with Entertainment Weekly:
“If the answer presented to her was, ‘Your parents are so-and-so, here you go, here’s your place in this story.’ That would be the easiest thing for her to hear. And easiest thing for us to hear! Wish fulfilment.
“It’s like, ‘Oh, great! That’s who I am. That’s that.’ The hardest thing she could hear is, ‘No, you’re not going to get that answer, that definition.’
“In fact, the fact that you don’t have that is going to be used against you by Kylo, to try and make you lean on him.”
So maybe this is the real answer, or maybe we will find out something else in Episode IX. Either way, she will have to learn to stand on her own two feet before she is able to have the answer and not use it as a crutch to define her place in the universe. She will have to find her own destiny and then her parentage will be nearly irrelevant.
First of all I don't need Snoke to be someone they hinted at it constantly, which annoys people for obvious reasons, Snoke alone fine but also Ray ? Its the Lost tv series bait and switch which is fucking cheap.
Snoke for such a badass force user that is supposed to be someone is such a chump its sad.
Who doesn't know that you don't need to be born of famous people to be force sensitive, that's such a pointless point to be made and the movie pats itself on the back like:" ehh, see how clever and profound we are?"
Not to mention how strange and bizzare Luke's character was and out of place the whole Yoda scene was as well.
The movie doesn't know what its doing to be quite honest, its floundering around like an octupus with star wars characters in each tentacle, its smashing them around in a sea of pointless stories.
I didn't have any theory on who her parents were, I waited for it to be revealed that the previous movie set up the question. The point in character writing is to get the audience interested in the characters. I got interested as many others and then it's like ha ha fooled you, you shouldn't care. Well ok now I don't care about the characters congratulations. Kylo did reveal her parents, she did. He said you know then she said it. The story was crap. The middle was a complete waste. Have you ever heard director's discus editing? Does the seen further the story, does it distract from the main story on and on. It's a poster child of what doesn't need to be in a story. There was no real plot just escape escape escape. Oops somebody forgot to top off the fuel tank. The movie screams lazy writing with a screw old fans attitude. Only thing about this movie is good CGI. The movie planing was let's do all this cool CGI stuff, hmm guess we have to work some story around this CGI and effects. It's a terrible with a huge huge budget that visually looks good. It's crap
Meant Kylo did NOT reveal her parents
Imagine how us Star Wars originals fans felt way back then when we were expecting Luke and Leia to hit it off and Darth Vader was anyone but Lukes father.
Marcus the difference is that Vader’s reveal was actually satisfying and well done. Something called “execution” is necessary in the equation
I don't know when bold choices became the term we use instead of "terrible plot holes" They're right, Rian didn't care. He didn't care about TFA, and he doesn't really seem to care about Star Wars. I don't understand why we're praising a director for intentionally not giving the fans what they want, unless awkward social commentary and forced plot devices are some peoples idea of fan service. The pacing of this movie is insane, Rey is on that island for days even though everything else in the movie is happening over the course of hours, and rather than explaining why anything is happening, Rian either kills it, or says "It doesn't matter" That's not bold, that's lazy and disrespectful. Don't fall for this weird Rian Johnson hype.
Whenever a movie does something silly or non-sensical we can now call it bold because it subverted our expectations. Why wasn't this used for DCEU? BvS subverted expectations...
I may misinterpret it, but I think that the casino storyline serves several purposes. It serves as a kind of shaggy dog story to subvert expectations. It serves to expand the Star Wars universe and engage in moral issues. But most importantly it serves to explore what it means to rebel.
A rebellion might not be as effective if all that unites the rebels is a shared hatred of the enemy. Though the way it was presented was a bit cheesy, I fundamentally agree with Rose's statement that protecting what you love is more important than destroying what you hate.
This is why it has such a huge impact on the kids working at the race track. This is how the near-extinct rebels will gather new recruits, inspiring rebellion by reaching out to the common people instead of wreaking vengeance.
It will provide a much more stable society after the rebellion uniting people in love rather than in hate.
It served to give Finn something to do for a couple hours.
Victor Flensburg
Yeah but if they could just light speed to some distance place and back, why didmt they have light speed gas to the planet the rebelion wanted to go?? I know, because plot and reasons. Dummies.
John Meyer The original plan was to have the transport ships sneak down to the base and hide. If they jumped to the planet through hyperspace then their plan would be obvious. The only reason the final confrontation happened on Crait is because the code-breaker overheard Poe and told the first order about the rebel transport ships. The resistance didn’t want a last stand on crait, they wanted to hide and live to fight another day.
Kylo didn't reveal Rey's parents. Rey did. She says her parents were nobodies. Then Kylo says they were junk traders. That they sold Rey for drinking money.
The Elite Praetorian Guard (Red) kick ass.
Too bad Supreme Leader Snoke isn't so ' Supreme '
They kick so much ass they lost to a girl who had trained for a week
'Subverting expectations' just means shitty storytelling now I suppose.
"Shitty storytelling" just means "I don't like thinking about storytelling at all, I prefer to be slapped in the face with Good and Evil" now I suppose.
Which part of "getting slapped in the face with Good and Evil" was it when Admiral Holdo didn't tell anyone what the plan is that was going to save all their lives because... oh because no reason?
Translation "They didn't use my Rey or Snoke theory therefore I hate it 😭😭"
Rian Johnson sits down with a book. "Gather round children, I'm going to tell you a story. Once upon a time there was a man named Snoke. He was evil, and spooky and he spoke with a spooky voice. Snoke is dead now. The End". Masterful storytelling.
ChannelTonto There is nothing wrong with the story telling, it's just that TLJ story wasn't the same story you and the rest of the UA-cam theorists were telling in your own heads for the last two years.
When are we going to get a Max Landis appearance for a rant?
whydavid I need to see it
Why?
Carla Marlene S if I remember correctly, he did a rant about The Force Awakens
he liked it a lot though, so it wouldn't really be a rant.
Why? He has written one good movie, I am not sure he is the most credible person to offer an opinion on storytelling.
me personally, I was bored by this movie. after this I rewatched attack of the clones, just to remind myself of how entertaining a shitty SW movie can be.
Good for you
So boring, disappointing, unbelievable.
I think they hit the good and bad parts beautifully. I still like the move a lot. I'm with Roth about enjoying being kept off balance during the entire thing. I disagree about the whole Kylo and Rey thing being contrived just so we can have them team up. This has added greatly between the dynamic of the two characters at the center of the story. Their emotional conflicts about each other and their connection rivals that of Luke and Darth Vader, without them being closely tied by blood.
The only consistency in the films is that Kylo Ren never fails to throw an over the top tantrum
Subverting expectations and keeping the audience off balance is not always a good thing, especially if a movie does nothing but that. How can I be invested in a story and characters when the movie is always building something only to go "hah! fooled ya!!!"
i liked it but i think it has destroyed all the mystery from this trilogy. episode 9 will suffer because there is literally no mystery and no major OT characters left to carry the film.
harsh baid Luke's definitely returning. Has to be, the way he left things with Kylo. And from what we saw Yoda do, he might still be a force to be reckoned with, even in death. For one, I'm excited to finally see what Ben meant when he said, "If you strike me down, I will become more powerful than you could possibly imagine." I mean, being a Force ghost is cool and all, but didn't really seem to live up to the hype. I'm hoping to see Luke actually show us what a Force ghost can do.
Yeah but if you don't have mysteries and OT characters then a lot of the public will lose interest as nostalgia was a major driving factors for the success of FA and will be for this moviei. i'll still watch it but even i am considerably less excited about episode 9 after watching the last jedi.
Episode 9 WAS supposed to be a Leia heavy movie
Yea that's true some of this should have been saved for episode 9 I feel
Plus they are going to kill Leia
You can't just keep saying "subversion of expectations" as a catch all defense for every flaw of the film. If you want to subvert an expectation, you actually have to give us something as good or better than the expectation. Being "different" doesn't inherently mean "good".
I dislike this movie, but this review points something I can appreciate. Thanks
Ok. When ever people who really liked this movie talk about it they say the same thing, “This movie is great, BUT...” lets be honest here. If there are a lot of “but’s” in something, it’s not great. It’s good. At best. I’m 37 and a life long Star Wars fan. But I’m not blinded by my fandom like many people are. I hated the prequels for instance. With that being said, I didn’t hate this movie. On the contrary. I thought it was good. Was it great? No. There were great things about it, but there were too many “buts” for me. I’m not sure if it would even be in the top 5 of all Star Wars movies for me. Maybe. Like they said. There is a lot to process in this movie, especially if your a life long fan like me. I really need to watch it again.
As I was watching the film, I had this nagging feeling that nothing felt right and I wasn't being drawn into the movie. Occasionally a good scene would get me invested but there weren't many. I walked out saying "yeah I think I liked it, it was good I think? But... what about this... what about that?" And after an hour or so I had to accept that, like you, there were too many 'buts' and I started thinking about it more and the whole movie fell apart.
I didn't expect much from this movie, after the Prequels I learned to keep my expectations lowwwww. But man I was still disappointed.
ChannelTonto I felt the same way while I was watching it. It was very unsatisfying. I actually prefer all the prequels than I do ep 8.
you could have easily put "but"in your comment lol XD
So if Rey's a nobody, in the Force Awakens how did she fix the Millennium falcon better then Han Solo, how did she she know how to do a mind trick literally a day after leaving Jakku, and how did she know how to fight with a lightsaber?!?!?!? In the original trilogy it took Luke until Empire Strikes Back (three years after A New Hope!) to barely be able to summon his lightsaber, but Rey (apparently nobody) just knows right away. If she felt inexplicably overpowered compared to other Star Wars characters before, after Last Jedi its even more blatant.
Yeah I get the feeling that the people who wrote her either have no idea what makes a good, compelling character or specifically wrote her like this cause they knew a large portion of their audience would cry sexism every time Rey was criticized
Was not a fan of The Force Awakens - so much that I just can't make it through it again. I really liked this one. It is not flawless, and a couple of scenes I really didn't like (the Leia in space for one). Still.... it was different. Not a rehash. Different views of different characters. I think this is the first SW movie in a while, I am actually anxious to see again
lawnjart16 well, leia in space is saisfying as we finally see leia using the force in action... also she wasnt flying, just force oulling herself
But it was a rehash though, the beginning text scroll sounds just like the story of Empire Strikes Back that I thought it was going to start with a probe landing on a planet, right before going to the scene with the new at-ats attack on salt-Hoth, but they saved that for the climax.
Then you have the scene where Rey goes down that hole where the dark side mirror is so she can defeat Darth Vader but then his mask blows up revealing it was her all along... oh wait no, it was just her discovering that her parents were her all along? It clearly just the same scene, but with all meaning stripped away.
In fact the whole island scene is pointless and just there to act as the Dagobah of the movie (it even rains all the time) and then it shows the X-wing under the water because 'member Star Wars guys! Of course Rey doesn't need to lift it for training because she is already so perfect, and then she leaves early without Luke because she has to confront Vader to save her friends and discover who are her parents! Oops, I meant Kylo not Vader.
But then that whole scene with Snoke is a bastadized version of the finale to Return of the Jedi but made pointless and stripped of meaning. Speaking of Return, Phasma is just as pointless as Boba Fett admittedly, but is somehow less interesting and dies in a less interesting setting too.
There was also the less charismatic and more stuttery Lando that betrays Finn but then leaves the story because he wasn't important and was just a reference to Lando who had an actual character arc no matter how small.
Luke dies like Yoda, yet it's actually really cowardly that he didn't leave the island and actually help, and he should actually have died like obi wan by fighting Kylo, not like yoda by being tired. Really pointless honestly.
There's probably more, but at least now episode IX can't ripoff anymore without being one of the prequels right?
At 28:01 Roth says "undercunt". It's funny
So Rey's parents were no one, that doesn't mean that fact doesn't matter.
I was overall positive for this movie being something different and not just a rehash like TFA, agree it is all about high highs and low lows.
Completely agree about the manufactured tension of Dern's character not communicating with Po. Cheap tension.